Morning Joe 6/12/19
I just went to the Oval Office and found this beautiful letter from President Obama. It was really very nice of him to do that. And we will cherish that we will keep that. And we won't even tell the press what's in that letter. They letter was given to me by Kim Jong and that letter was sir nice letter. All would you like to see what was in that leather? Would you like how much how much? That she agreement that everybody says, I don't have. No, because I'm gonna let Mexico do the announcement the right time for Mexico. They wanna go through. But here's the agreement is very simple agreement. This is one page, this is one page of a very long very good agreement for both Mexico and the United States. President Trump, obviously very excited about his love letters from dictators and secret agreements, especially the very secret agreements, and we'll find out actually if they're agreements or not. But anyway, good morning. Welcome to morning Joe. It's Wednesday June the twelfth. And with us this morning, we have MSNBC contributor, Mike barnicle national political correspondent for NBC news and MSNBC, and the author of the red and the blue Steve Kornacki. It's gonna be great to have him with us this morning. A lot of polls, and also, of course, back and forth between Donald Trump and Joe Biden all day yesterday. We'll tell you what it means also Washington bureau chief for USA today, the author of the matriarch, Susan page, and NBC news. National political reporter, Mike, minimally. So Joe Biden continues to maintain its lead in the democratic primary field. According to the latest Quinnipiac, poll thirty percent of democratic voters said they support the former VP. Putting him eleven points ahead of Vermont. Senator Bernie Sanders, however Biden's down a few points since last month. Nineteen percent of Democrats say they back Sanders. He's up three points from last month and fifteen percent back. Massachusetts, Senator Elizabeth Warren, she's up two points, a percent support mayor Pete. He's up. Three seven percent said they support Senator, comma, Harris and three percent support, former congressman, and of course, Texas Senate candidate Beto award, but will be with us later on this morning, Willie. Look at the bowl and so many of these polls seem to be breaking in one direction that is you've got, you got your top tier, then your top tier is Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren and it really is starting to shape up again. Maybe it's pole position. I don't know exactly how early. This will prove to be to mean anything but boy, you really see Joe Biden taking the lion's share. But then you have Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren with Elizabeth Warren doing what we all thought she would do at the beginning, and that is cut in two Bernie Sanders, massive support, and the Democratic Party. Yeah. And it was probably inevitable that vice president Biden would dip down a little bit from his Astra nominal numbers before he got into the rates. And then the early days and weeks of this campaign. Bernie Sanders is kind of been holding steady. But you're right. Elizabeth Warren is the one who's come up to that top tier mayor pizzas somewhere ticks below their Steve Kornacki. We were talking before we came on the air about Joe Biden sort of coming from that forty percent space down to that thirty percent space. What strikes you, you look at that latest poll? Yeah. I mean, I guess one thing that strikes me too, is when you take a step back and you realize there are twenty four people right now seeking the death. Critic, presidential nomination and really, you've just got a handful who are registering at all in the polls right now, I think one of the things we've seen the first six months of this year is there's been such a logjam there've been so many candidates. It's actually been very difficult for anybody to break through outside of that top group Buddha. Judge got in there. Comma, Harris Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden outside of that. Nobody's registering that much, there's an opportunity obviously coming up for them. But when you look at Joe Biden, look, I think it's sort of in a holding pattern right now. It's a question of what does Joe Biden look like what does he sound like what message does he have what response does he have for his opponents when he gets on that too based stage in a couple of weeks? I think that's sort of test. And then as soon as that debate ends soon as he's off the stage. He accelerates. I think we're expecting his campaign schedule some. So then what is he looked like when you're getting more of a permanent almost data day campaign from Joe Biden? I, I was struck yesterday, just watching from afar, these events. He did at Iowa started out, you saw him at the. Radium reading from his text looking down at prepared remarks looking down at his notes in very subdued seemed like in some ways, you know, not a very zestful performance. Then I looked up an hour later, he walked away from the podium at the next event. He's looking into the crowd. He's wal walking pacing the room right there. That's the Joe Biden. I remember from past campaigns, and that's the Joe Biden. I think you know, who could tap into that very vast goodwill. It exists from among democratic voters, maybe so, and that does seem to me at least to be a pretty good formula for Joe Biden, actually reading notes at the lectern staying on script the lectern. And then when he goes out shakes hands with people connects in a positive way. That's pretty powerful and and probably his best path forward. But Mike barnicle you know, a lot of people will love to dismiss polls that are coming out in the summer of two thousand nineteen oh, it's not going to have. Big impact boy, but let me tell you something when the next FEC filings are dropped then you will know it makes a difference if you're sitting at one percent. If you're sitting at two percent. Good luck, getting the thirty five forty forty five million dollars. You need to survive till Iowa, you just won't do it pretty soon. We're going to see that these polls actually do matter, they do Joe. And it's, it's really striking with Steve pointed out, because I think a lot of people noticed Joe's initial presentation yesterday reading off the notes, and then an hour and a half later, you know, out in the crowd, speaking, except marina, so it was almost as, if there were two different Joe Biden's, and the one Joe Biden later in the day is the one you recognize but back to raising money in the importance of polls. Now. In speaking to a lot of Democrats over the past few days. A lot of people are struck by a couple of things Elizabeth Warren's rise in the polls in here, intensity in terms of issuing. I've got a plan. It is really taken hold, I think, is hurt. Bernie Sanders as we've indicated over the past few weeks. But the other question, that's raised that I hear repeatedly in Steve. I don't know whether you hear this is what has happened to camera Harris. I mean she came out of the gate like like wildfire and seems to have stalled in this frozen at seven percent and can't move from there. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting. The hair strategy to there was some news in the last week or so that the campaign is getting ready to it in his now, investing in Iowa aggressively it, and I think the idea is, they're going to try to move the numbers in Iowa in the leadoff caucus day, in there's that there's that theory with, with a Harris, that's always been there that it's sort of like the Obama path back in two thousand eight there's a slow. Link shot effect from Iowa from exceeding expectations that could change everything in South Carolina overnight. That's what happened with Obama twelve years ago that has existed in theory for common areas. But you're right. I think look, Elizabeth Warren lately, has been getting a lot more attention before that. It was judge in between. You had the Joe Biden launch, and she's really kind of squeezed out lately, on the question of elective -bility Comal Harris. Like many of these Democrats is doing very well in a head to head matchup with President Trump that new coupon shows President Trump lagging far behind. Joe Biden and five other top Democrats in general election matchup, Quinnipiac, university poll taken between Thursday and Monday shows Trump trailing. Joe Biden by thirteen points, fifty three to forty Bernie Sanders beats Trump by nine points in the poll fifty one to forty two comma Harris ahead by eight points. Elizabeth Warren by seven points, Pete Buddha. Judge in Cory Booker each lead the president by five points with President Trump failing to break. Forty two percent against any single one of them, he's general election results pattern of people who've you Trump favorably in the poll as forty two percent approve of the president's job performance forty-one percent credit, President Trump for a good economy and only forty one percent approve of the president's policy toward Mexico, which he pours his touting as a big victory. So Joe we go back to those head to head matchups. It's stunning to me, and it has been in all these head-to-heads over the last several weeks that Donald Trump is no different against Joe Biden, then he is against comma, Harris or Cory Booker mayor Pete or any of these candidates. He is a forty percent forty one percent president, what he is. And you know leading up to the mid terms. When Democrats were so concerned, everybody was so concerned, it was important to remember that, despite all the sound and the fury despite all the tweets despite the daily controversies you had to focus on the fact that Donald Trump was forty percent. President that met six ten americ-. Did not agree with Donald Trump, and what he was doing and his presidency that, of course, would that lead to in the midterms led to the biggest vote, total route, and the history of the United States of America for Democrats against Republicans and Susan page your look at the president here and he's sitting at forty forty one forty two percent. You can go back. You can see everything that is done. You can see everything that he has said since January twentieth two thousand seventeen when he did his American carnage speech, and you can see that all of his words and all of his deeds, and all of his actions have been focused on one thing. Solidifying his base. Well, congratulations, Mr President, you've got forty percent. And that's all you've got. Right. You know it's, it's in some ways a sign of the president's drink that he has had forty percent support regardless of what he's done. Those are people who have been with him from the. And are likely to be with him forever in the question is, is that the ceiling is, is forty or forty two percent the ceiling for President Trump. Because if you hear sealing his forty two percent the only way you win. The presidency is in a three way race not impossible to have a three way. But if we have to race, you're not gonna win with forty two percent. And if you look at the ability of, of President Trump's level of support look at where Joe Biden's advantage comes in this Quinnipiac poll, it's interesting, the quip Trump and Biden are tied among white voters. They are tied among male voters. Those are the groups that delivered the presidency to Donald Trump last time run. And the reason that I think the White House is so focused on Biden is because of how competitive Joe Biden is with those particular voter groups. You know, they porn thing, remember, make is that polls stone always reflect the breadth of Donald Trump's support. We noticed in two thousand sixteen we could be talking to a thousand people, and nobody would mitt that they were voting for Donald Trump would actually talked to him afterwards. And they would all come up saying they were voting for Donald Trump. This is a little different. He's, he's now running as an incumbent politician who hasn't kept his word on Mexico paying for the wall, or on healthcare for all universal healthcare, and improved healthcare cheaper, healthcare, or tax cuts for working class Americans. So there's all of that, but at the same time when it is, Donald Trump onstage against one, democrat, it is going to tighten up. But for now he starts as a forty percent. President he does. And Mike was talking. About the different Biden's. And how when Biden stuck to the script, it seemed different I will say doesn't matter stick to the discipline and you make this point in your column in the Washington Post because, you know, for a brief moment in his presidency, Trump stuck to the script in Normandy, as you say, and it worked, and that's exactly what we need Joe. Writes this President Trump drew praise from editorial writers and thought leaders across the political spectrum for a day, dress that temporarily soothe the nerves of NATO allies and foreign policy analysts alike, forgive Democrats being less than impressed by their nemesis is reading skills, but they should not forget that their ability to dislodge the Donald from sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue next year, may depend on the certain Scranton, Pennsylvania native doing the same considering Joe Biden, the Democrats best hope for twenty twenty has a chequered. Bath as a candidate for national office. His supporters can only hope that when the former vice president gets on stage. He smiles for the crowd reads, his speech, and exits stage, left waving as he goes, that's because Biden has proved himself, uniquely challenged going off script taking twenty minutes to answer a question, and causing himself in his staff on necessary political grief. If you think I'm trying to send Biden a message with this column, you are correct. Too much is riding next year's election for any democratic candidate to shoot. From the hip rhetorically, America's future will likely be left in the hands of which ever seventy something politician, sticks most closely to the script that is handed to him and the difference Joe between Joe Biden sticking to the script and Trump. Is that Joe Biden at least is intellectually connected to what he and his team, or are fighting for, and it wouldn't hurt them to do that. While with Trump, you see a glaring. Difference from being in front of the cameras in front with the crosses in Normandy, behind him talking to Laura Ingram and calling people, names and acting reprehensibly, and then walking up at stage and looking presidentially presidential, because he actually stuck to the script. It was almost jarring what we would be. We would be real served if the president continued stimulated age groups that are handed him for the most part, quoted in the column, a Napoleon, quote that David Ignatius reminded me of Normandy, and he said, great generals, or those who can do the average things when everybody else is going crazy and Mike mentally. There are a lot of people who support Joe Biden who talked to me, and I'm sure of talk to you, and talk to all of us off camera saying my God. I hope he sticks to the script. I hope he doesn't start rattling off things that are off message. Stick to the script look down read your notes, and that you can shake hands with people and be the old Joe. When you get out in the audience. Yeah Joe I think what the past week and a half has shown us is that the only person who can disqualify Joe Biden is Joe Biden himself. I was talking the other day with one or the other democratic presidential hopefuls, who was in Iowa this weekend at that dinner where you had more than I think it was nineteen candidates, speaking, his read of the room was that the Democrats who went after Joe Biden actually hurt because of that, that the, the room turned against them when they went after Joe Biden, we also saw yesterday the president playing into the Biden campaign strategy. President's attacks on Joe Biden only elevate Joe Biden when his campaign's primary focus has been about his electability argument. And so what we did see yesterday in the three events, Joe by did yesterday was that his strong event, perhaps. Was the last event of the day where he was on the teleprompter? I've been covering a lot of the Biden events so far and his performance hasn't been as strong when he's reading from notes, he does better when he is speaking extemporaneously, but he's strongest in a room full of enthusiastic. Democrats fees off their energy, and when he's reading from the teleprompter, and I think we saw him at his most effective there. The challenge, of course, is going to be in this debate when other candidates go after him and his record, which is he's very proud of will he have the discipline to brush those attacks off. That's the big question I think, heading forward. All right. Mike, thank you so much. We really appreciate you being with us. And of course, nobody has better incites Joe Biden, the campaign trail than you. We preach with this this morning. I remember he's funny. Mike's talking about teleprompters in smaller events. I remember seeing John Kerry in two thousand four studying teleprompters, who's putting them up before relatively small of it. And I was thinking what why would he do that? Well. I did it because he was smart. That's Biden needs to do where two or more Democrats gathered there to should be his teleprompters make as good Lord. My gut tells me though, that Biden needs to obviously work hard on staying focused and being on message, a who am I say, but I, I like Joe Biden, and I don't want Joe Biden to change from being who he is. Because that humanity is very connective today American public. And we saw that through some challenges. He had earlier on in the campaign where, you know, people were were trying to bring him down, and ultimately, Joe Biden won the day by being a good man. A good guy that you can connect with Steve Kornacki. The polls that this at this time and in the race. President Trump's not doing so. Well, having said that it worries me for any democrat to say gleefully because there's a lot of time ahead. No. I mean. Absolutely. And of course, for a democrat, y'all need to think back to twenty sixteen. It all the poll numbers you saw about Donald Trump, look, he was losing to Hillary Clinton in the head to head, but when he was within striking distance throughout the campaign, and you had all these underlying numbers about Trump in two thousand sixteen. I remember going through these, when you'd ask voters is he competent enough to be president. Is he qualified to be president? Is he honest enough to be president de trust them with the button, those kinds of questions, and he was getting numbers on those on those issues by and large that were substantially worse than Hillary Clinton substantially worse than any winning candidate? We'd ever seen before. You add it in the fact that he was consistently trailing Hillary Clinton in the polls in, that's where that widespread expectation came from the Donald Trump wasn't just going to lose an election day, that potentially he was going to lose badly on election day. So. I think that's the cautionary note, everybody. It's not just Democrats that I think everybody has to carry into twenty sixteen and I think the question that sort of at the heart of that is in terms of Trump victory scenario is he able to create that same sort of level of polarization that was there in two thousand sixteen where Hillary Clinton's negative numbers are favorable unfavorable election day. They were not that much better than Donald Trump. And ultimately, they were close enough to Donald Trump's that he was able to get enough voters in just the right places to look at Trump. Look at Clinton say I don't like either. But I don't like her more don't like her party more. I don't like you know, sort of side of the cultural argument that she represents Moore that seemed to be what drove him over the top at the end, and it is an open question. He's gonna covered in twenty twenty that's different. But there's no question of whether he can recreate that and Susan it really did yesterday just for a day, look like a general election, having both Donald Trump and Joe Biden in the state of Iowa. Joe Biden focused on Donald Trump. Donald Trump focus. Almost exclusively on Joe Biden among democratic contenders, and Joe Biden's message was on the one hand about policy. He was talking about tariffs and their impact on farmers there. And but he did go back again, to sort of that, gut argument he's been making, which is this is not who we are. How are you feeling about these two and a half years? Do you want another four years of this? I can change that I'm the guy who can beat him now the poll that we showed shows that a lot of other people may have that cases. Well, that other Democrats say, well, if you look at the polling on beating him by seven eight ten points as well. Steve makes smart point to remember, which is President Trump one last time, even though people had concerned about he goes into this race with one huge new advantage. And that is the US economy. He's the incumbent. You look at that Quinnipiac poll, three out of four Americans said their own personal financial situation was good are, are good or excellent seven out of ten Americans said, the US, Konami was good or excellent. We do. We have no history in modern times of defeating incumbent president. If people are feeling that good about the economy. Now at the moment, Trump is not getting the benefits from the since the economy is good in this record setting recovery. But it's possible that, that is a very powerful court gets even though there continued to be these deep questions about his competence and fitness for office kind of things that Joe Biden was trying to strike yesterday. That's a great point. I mean unemployment at three point six percent. So many. The other so many of the parts of the economy humming along very well. This is a recovery that started in two thousand ten and it has been roaring for nine years now, which, of course, is unusual in and of itself, that the cycle has been up for nine years, so we'll see what happens, but really despite all of that great news again, I just want to go over the head to head matchups in one, we didn't show before let's put the head to head matchups up on the screen if we can Alex, just show, again, this Quinnipiac poll, Donald Trump getting pounded by bind by thirteen by Sanders by nine hair losing by eight war, and losing by seven mayor PD's losing by five Cory Booker, he's losing by five as well and one that we didn't even put up our good friend Benjamin dry. Brought it to our attention. Waxy yellow build up forty eight percent. Trump forty percent you have waxy, of course, Benjamin dryer of dryers English. But yeah. Wow. Three point six. Employment and waxy yellow Bill saying that just ahead. By the way. Why is the margin of error really when you're talking about waxy Ellen Bill and stay three percent? But at this hour of the day, I think the image of waxy yellow build up, it's not what I'm looking for or speak for sex. You're saying you prefer more before happy. Later in the day. All right. Well, thank you so much for Benjamin barrier for bringing that important poll numbers onto for the day. Benjamin, I think Benjamin, you can go back to bed and sleep all day, by the way, redraw years, English is good and stuff. Hi, it's Katie ter- want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the NBC daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed during this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC to six eight six six to subscribe. Welcome back. Here's a look at some of the other stories we're following this morning riots in Hong Kong continued to erupt as police used tear gas on demonstrators who attempted to storm. The city's government buildings aren't with bricks and bottles. The protesters clashed with riot police who used batons pepper spray, and rubber bullets to suppress the demonstrators in the city's downtown, the political unrest comes amid backlash over a Bill that would allow people facing trials and mainland China to be extradited legislative councils vote was scheduled for today. But has since been moved to next week amid the ongoing clashes, we'll stay on that a former Stanford University sailing coach is expected to be the first person sentenced in the college admission scandal today. John van damore pleaded guilty to record tearing and honest fraud services for accepting six hundred and ten. Thousand dollars in bribe money for the university sailing program in return for falsely qualifying three students for admission. God van damore, did not directly pocket the cash himself and his alleged role in the plan ultimately failed when the students did not attend Stanford. Prosecutors will ask for thirteen months behind bars at his sentencing hearing this afternoon, that's according to the Boston Globe, and as for some actual athletes that depending champion US women's national team made quite the statement in their World Cup opener in friends, defeating Thailand with turnament record. Thirteen nil victory today. Seven US women found the back of the net including a record matching five goals scored by Alex Morgan, as team, USA finished with thirty nine shots ten corners and seventy five percent possession in the blowout, actually. Barnacle you always complained that saw is like a one to nothing. You know, sport that that's incredible. That's incredible. It's I mean, sure they missed an extra point after their second touchdown but thirteen to nothing pretty impressive. Well, let me ask you heard of such a huge disparity in in scoring a soccer game. It's been a why not even close. Yeah. It was. All right. Still ahead. It's been more than a month since President Trump announced Patrick Shanahan, his pick for secretary of defense. But according to NBC news, the president may be rethinking that idea Carolee joins us with their new reporting. And we'll talk to someone with a bit of experience in the role Fulmer Defense Secretary ash Carter joins us next on morning Joe. Welcome back. President Trump, maybe second guessing his choice of Patrick Shanahan for secretary of defense, according to NBC news while enormity last week Trump as at least three people what they thought of Shanahan and whether they had any suggestions for different candidates. That's according to four people familiar with the conversations. Joining us now, national political reporter for NBC news. Carolee with Moore. Carrol. Good morning Meco. Well, we learned is that President Trump, never really wanted Patrick Shanahan as his first choice for this job. And he went back and forth about this for several months. Shanahan's been serving in acting capacity since January's, and James Mattis, left president was sort of, pushed into making a decision because people felt it was not a good idea to leave this open as an acting position weakened Shanahan. They couldn't do the job properly. So he announces on may ninth that he's chosen Shanahan, and yet a month or so later, he's asking people what do you think of Shanahan who else might I nominate or do you have any other ideas and looking for alternatives? And this is all happening at the same time as the White House has not sent up the nomination to the Senate, formerly. So it puts Shanahan and a really precarious position, you know, we've seen this before the president has gone back and forth, about aids where he's second guessing them and ask people what they think of him, and who. Else might be able to do the job. Certainly anyone who served as President Trump's chief of staff news with that feels like but because she had ahead hasn't wasn't the president's first choice. There's been a little public daylight between the two of them. She had a hint took a very different stance on the decision by the White House, or that request from the White House to the navy to obscure the US s McCain, while the president was in Japan, he called McCain, a patriot. That's obviously very different from how President Trump views late Senator, he also said that North Korea violated, UN Security Council, resolutions with its ballistic missile tests. That was a difference with the president. So, you know, the president seems to be second guessing casting about looking for alternatives. And the problem is no one really knows who that alternative is good. Lord. NBC's carolee. Thank you very much Willie. New York Secretary of defense under President Obama ash Carter. He's the author of the new book inside the five sided box lessons from a lifetime of leadership in the Pentagon. Mister secretary good morning. Good to see to be here. Thank you, a lot to talk to you about want to get to the book and just a moment. One ask you about President Trump and his approach to North Korea yesterday talking about a beautiful letter he received from Kim Jong Hoon? What do you suspect is up here? Why President Trump treating the dictator the murderous dictator Kim of North Korea with such flattery. Well, the only possible explanation, I can offer is he's hoping, we'll get progress on you do clears ation of the Korean peninsula. Remember something they promised president. I've been around this long President, George Bush won in nineteen ninety two so this isn't a new promise what we need is a plan that goes on the promise and what we haven't gotten yet as a plan that is actually underway. To get rid of their nuclear weapons. So that's his our president style of diplomacy right now. Everybody's happy, except us the North Koreans are happy because we're going to author back. China's kind of happy because we're not threatening war and South Korea, which happens to have an administration right now. Which is. Sort of a peace Nick kind of ministration that's politically convenient. But we don't have denuclearization yet, knowing what you know about North Korea knowing what you know about this regime. Do you think this approach works in some way because we haven't seen any evidence really that North Korea slowing down its approach to nuclear, well, I've been part of previous efforts, ninety ninety four ninety nine right into this movie, two thousand sixty thousand seven when Condie rice, and Colin Powell gave it a try. We, we didn't give it a try during the time out secretary defense because I didn't see any way to make it work out in the president didn't either. We've tried it in the past and made some little bit of progress. So I'm I'm for talking to them and pressing them on this as you using the leverage. We have an hammering China to get in the game and sticky with Japan which is a good ally and friend is threatened. But so far, the action has followed. What is really the drama of the two leaders meeting? Remember President Bush won all the president's after would not meet with the leader North Korea, unless they had a deal to sign their position was, I won't I'm going to give them the gift of a meeting with the president United States until less. I have deal. President Trump is taken, of course, opposite, the opposite of protect the underlying question to all this mister secretary is why would North Korea give up its nuclear program? It doesn't have much else on the world. It has leverage in any other areas, tickly economic leverage. Why would they give up their weapons? Well that back in the earlier times when you're talking to them, they didn't have them yet right now they've had the taste and in two thousand six when the as I said the Bush administration was talking when they exploded their first bomb. That's when they crossed the threshold, and now it's going to be hard to get in. We have some success in doing that. Remember Ukraine, Kazahkstan? Belarus, Iran that program during the nineteen ninety three countries that did give up nuclear weapons acids possible. But it's it'll be tough. It'll take a huge amount of pressure. And carrots, and sticks much larger than we've Marshall before to get him to make a move that big, what's, what's your view of our relationship today with China, given the fact that they that we drew from TPP, the Chinese, apparently think they own the South Pacific socialization, and we have a tower for ongoing seemingly escalating with each passing day. What you've you of that situation. I it, we have it's not a Cold War, but it is a sustained competition with what is after all the communist dictatorship? Now last time, we had a sustained competition with a gun mystic dealership was the Soviet Union. But we didn't trade with them. This is this is all we need a whole new playbook for this. So in the Weiwei thing in whether students should Chinese students should go back to China or not in the trade talks. We need a new playbook of which tariffs is one part. But I think only one part and I've watched the Chinese. Now, I've been dealing with them, and their military leaders since nineteen nineties, I knew Zhang's in June tau, and now sesion ping and over that time Mike. The tendency to of Chinese to be sort of overweening look to dominate Asia has taken over there earlier view, which is hey, this system, international system. Works pretty well for us, we get to be. We are run our country our way. And we get to trade with everybody and develop our, our country, and we all hope this view, would prevail, but it didn't. And so I did it may be was faded that way, I could always tell when I was talking the Chinese military that they were thinking this way, but they weren't allowed to say things that way. So it always existed it grew I do believe that we need to protect ourselves. And by that, I mean, when are the Chinese could bring to bear on an American company or American ally? That combination of military economic and political power that only a communist dictator. Ship can bring that creates an unlit level field, and I think companies expect our government, not to be necessarily confrontational but to be protective of them. So I think the things that we're doing to push back on the Chinese are necessary. And I think that's true militarily also were doing much more in the military. We started that some time ago doing more for their and so forth and south China's. We need to push back also. Mister secretary wanna talk about your book inside the five sided box and you call it. Are you publish your calls it in port users guy, to the military, industrial complex, of course, that phrase coming from Dwight Eisenhower's warning in his farewell speech to America in January of nineteen sixty one? You see often congress and the president United States supporting weapons systems that depend gone doesn't even ask for that. The Pentagon doesn't even want, but the military industrial complex does one, I saw Armed Services Committee, where there's always straight party line votes. But then, you know, another vote would come away saying their voting for Raytheon. Wait. Are they on the side of Laki more? So it was hard to follow it all you just knew there was a ton of money there. How do we break the grill of the military industrial complex and make it? So it is about running the leanest military organization that we can run without basically, throwing billions of dollars every defense contractor that writes, five thousand dollar checks for of congress where you write the book isn't a memoir, two different kind of book. It's guide to the Pentagon. Cluding how to buy weapons and I had that job. In addition to the deputy secretary Defense Secretary defense worked there and every layer. Over time and. Look, we don't build anything in the Pentagon. We don't do things the Soviet way. We buy all our weapons from private industry, and that means when I was the acquisition executive, I had to make business deals with the defense industry, and I was sitting on the tax payer and the war fighters side of the table. And they were sitting on their shareholders and employee's side table understood that it's not at it's just business. But I need to stick up for the taxpayer in the war fighter. And you need to be skilled negotiator with them. I need them to be healthy. I need them to do. Okay. On Wall Street, and so because I need a healthy defensive, by the way, I need a, the tech industry to participate more in defense because one of the reasons we have the best military in the world is we have the best technology in the world. And we, we, we can't get that anymore, just by working in the pen with with our own programs. We have to reach out to the tech sector and that was another. Big thing that I. Did. But we have good acquisition executives I had tough negotiations with industry. I had cordial relations with them, but they didn't push me around. I was the customer. And you mentioned congress congress gets involved every once in a while, but I'll give you an example of the tanker competition. There was huge congressional interest in that nevertheless. I was acquisition executive at the time, we ran a fair competition, that one party one and the other party didn't even try to protest because we hit we had clean, and so you can do it right people. See waste waste is inexcusable, particularly when we're asking for as much money as we are to protect the country, but it doesn't have to be that way. Good management. In deal with gold military industrial complex serve the tax payer in the war fighter. I felt that that was possible. And we have a lot of people know how to do that in the department of defense. And so one of the things of says, is don't have to be this, where here's some, here's some tricks, for how to manage the military industrial complex for the taxpayer in the warfighter Susan pages with us. And that's a question. Ashkar given your long experience at the Pentagon is there an impact on the way things work at the Pentagon when there is no, permanent confirmed, secretary leading and in particular drawing on the story that care, the NBC story that Kerley talked about just a few minutes ago when the president expresses maybe some cold feet about going forward with the nominee has announced to leave the Pentagon, does that have an impact on how things work there. Well, does your in a weaker position if you're not confirmed? I don't know patch, and Eoghan. Well, he's the first secretary of defense designate that I haven't known I worked for casper, Weinberger in the Reagan administration. So I've known known them all it does probably. We get into a little bit in Washington. The department of defense, however, is very orderly place thrives on order and clarity. And so, I think people looking upward at him and the department will regard him as their secretary of defense as long as he's the acting. Secretary defense, I think internally things are probably going to be okay. But in the larger Washington world doesn't help, Pat, if pets can end up being the secretary of defense to go through this period that I don't have any insight. I I'm not sure anybody does into whether he'll alternately get the job or not, as I said, I don't know, more personally gymnasts was an old friend of mine, and I were known each other for twenty five years. We used to sleep floor of a secretary defenses plane in nineteen Ninety-three when his flu around the world. So I've known Jim since major. The book is inside the five sided box lessons from a lifetime of leadership in the Pentagon. Former secretary ash Carter, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. Great to see you coming up transportation secretary, Elaine. Chao was the latest Trump administration. Official to be involved in a potential conflict of interest scandal, her husband, Mitch McConnell appears to be shrugging it off. Of course. So he's. We'll show you what he says about the allegations ahead on morning, Joe. New podcast youth Rosenberg, is based on a simple premise thoughtful conversations with interesting people like Jim Komi. Lisa, monica. And pre Peru are each of them. Took an oath as I did to support defend the constitution of the United States, the oath with Chuck, Rosenberg. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.