Upgrade 233: Let's Start a Rumor


From really FM. This is upgrade episode two hundred and thirty free today show is brought to you by fresh books. Luna display and insta- book. My name is my colleague I'm joined by Jason. Hi, Jason snow are Mark early. How are you? Very. Well, Jason snow very well. Indeed. We have a hashtag Snell toll question from CONNER and Kana wants to know Jason when you're wearing only one episode or when you take an airport out of your ear, which one do you take out? Left right. Okay. That's very I. I don't know. Why does this make me left brained? I always when I'm holding a phone to my ear or if I've got one ear bud in. It's always in my right ear. And I it's not like I have a hearing issue in my left ear. I just whenever I'm holding a phone to my left ear it feels completely wrong. Okay. So my my right. My right ear I will also as a bonus I will point out that as miraculously as the the airports are. I my ears are itchy. And I hate it that if I have to scratch one of my ears and take out one of the year pods that the that the podcast. I'm listening to stops. I should probably do something about that. But it's such a good feature all the rest of the time. But it was moments where I'm like, no, I don't I don't wanna scratch. I don't wanna scratch because I don't want to stop listening to. Oh god. I gotta take the gotta scratch my year now. Yep. I don't like that. That's a that's a. It's an issue. They should have like a anti-itch plastic on it or something. Anyway. Right. The right right is the answer. If it's the pulse specifically making your is. No, no, they just they just anyway. But then I have the air pot in there. I I wonder if I should get some sort of like a technique where I where I like bring my finger up and like touch the proximity sensor, and then carefully lifted away. But I don't think that'll work. I think it will. I think you'll know that the is up and problem won't let me scratch your wall. Still listening with the takeout my right and a punt. And I think I know why this is because the right side is where the controls of always being for iphone abuts and for like, I put it right stuff. Dangling dangling controls are on the way. That's right, volume and the buttons and stuff. So I think I'm used to when I want to change something my right arm goes up to my ear. You know, like it goes up towards my in. So that's why I take the right one out. That's that's my theory. Anyway, stick into it. All right. Thank you on for this very peculiar. But somewhat interesting question on the lesson. That is what we love here, the hashtag, snow talk. Yeah. I think that is like an archetypal Snell thought question, which is personal very specific. And a little bit pointless. Well, we would not. So that question, you know. Thank you part of follow up for sure. Token of which there are some audio book streaming services said this was something we spoke about in hashtag, ask upgrade Lee end of last week show. We add an upgrading right into say. Why the no audiobook streaming services? And we were like that seems like there should be some tons out there all some I just don't know about them. But luckily, our upgradings do so we had some suggestions come in pita Rotin to suggest -scribed. But without an e I'm pretty sure that this company used to do something else. Yes. Well, they used to be much more of a place where people could post copyright violations. Right. I don't I don't have a scribe script. Whatever it is. I have a very positive relation with that brand mostly because my entire relationship with him with sending cease and desist about people. Posting whole issues of MacWorld on it used to be scans. Right. They used to stands. Okay. So now, they also do unlimited audiobooks, and such and then another company called place to who. You have a whole bunch of us is that that I don't feel like a fully understand movie streaming services and e-book streaming services. But also an audiobook shaming service and less than sent that one in and then Lawson from Corey who sent in high books as an books high bow and Lorenzo said that in a few countries, you can go to story tell as T O R Y T E L dot com. So they're out there. It seems like there's no dominant player. And I I am a little skeptical about. Whether the catalogs are very good. But they it's worth investigating. If you're somebody who is looking for a, you know Spotify or net flicks for audiobooks, but so they are out there. But it seems like it's much smaller part of the market than she's interesting music. Yeah. It's interesting to me that it seems like I mean, you're where assuming that these these will one hundred percent above bullet, disservices bless just assume they all they have the right deals that need to tend to have this content if they can exist. It's surprising that accompany like an apple or an Amazon annul doing this. That just seems like a surprise to me if it can exist. Then it surprising to me that are doing it. And I have heard that there that there is some audio contents of spoken word content on Spotify at least two which seems weird. But like they've been put in the system, even though they're even though they're they're audio content. They've been putting the music system. So that if you're a Spotify user or even an apple music user, I dunno search around maybe you'll find something. But the it is a little bit weird. But I think it is the economics. Like, I said last week the economics of the publishing industry that publishers are really reluctant for books and audiobooks to give out the purchase model to a you know, it's like we talked about with apple news, right? It's the it's d- want to give that up for a promise of a portion of a big pot of money. And I think publishers have done the calculation and the kind of are reluctant to do that. But I guess I'm expecting that old -able plays you mole because people will specifically choosing you'll book they are purchases. Right. The audible description is giving you credits to make purchases and that and that's their way of creating a subscription model, quote unquote, subscription service that in the end is basically all carte purchase system the same ibooks audiobook, so my expectation. Would be that lodge publishes. Don't wanna rock that boat. Because people right now that want to get audio books are paying by and large paying full price full those audio books. So maybe there is an incentive there on on the PA the big publishes two not one of rock that boat because you know, look, what happened to the music industry now won't buys albums anymore. So that we got talking of which of all this stuff. We have some upstream news. So wanna media's new streaming boss? Kevin Reilly who we spoke about few weeks ago. He's recently put in place had he's kind of press junket, and one of the biggest headline tidbits that Riley was talking about is saying that it is not a good model to share. So he's talking about when before he came on board. One immediate did a deal with Netflix one hundred million dollars to renew their friends contract for streaming. This was before say Kevin took the role, and he seems to not be in the mindset that that is a thing that wanna media should be doing going forward when talking about what referred to as the kind of crown jewels of the one of media catalog Riley says they should be exclusive to their upcoming service that don't think this about all of that content. I think that taking a slightly different stunts to Disney. Because Riley says he feels one immediate has such a large folio that they can do some deals, but they need to be more strategic about it and not be giving away that big stuff and friends is obviously a very big thing for them. But I think that friends deal was just one year so considering one or not going to be starting even a baiter of this of until twenty twenty that were be able to get France back for it. Yeah. It's it makes sense. This is the way video stuff is is a panning out. Here is people want to at this point in the game. People wanna use their content to set exclusives to force you. If you want to see it you need to pay and the s this this is like the decision CBS made with pudding Star Trek on all access instead of just putting it on net flicks. They could've made more money upfront putting it on that flex worldwide instead of just outside of North America. But they wanted in the US they wanted to use it to build a new service. And this is what Riley saying here, which is why I could make money selling friends to net flex, but I'd really in the long run. It's more valuable to us as part of the content of our service to make people find it more appealing just checked. It was a multi year deal. Nobody knows how long it is between that flex and wanna meet. It's yeah. It's a multi year deal. It's a non exclusive deal, which means that the Warner media service will probably launch with friends, but there are, but it will go for a few more years. It's unclear how long also being on Netflix. Yeah. Where Warner media's not gonna have the exclusive, but Netflix won't have the exclusive either. But it doesn't make a selling point for one not not right at first. But you can see what Riley saying here is in the long run. A very much like like marvel Netflix where you could see the writing on the wall. How I set you up for our next story right there. You have. Just before we went live today on the show coming from deadline. There will be no more seasons of punish o or Jessica Jones. These are the last two marvel Netflix shows yet it hadn't yet officially been canceled because they were still rolling out there final season. And obviously everybody knows the jig is up because they did this even before the Jessica Jones season rolls out. They were going to they waited for after punisher rolled out. But yeah, so this is I mean, we we've talked about it before marvel net flicks on both sides. This is the deal that was made in a different era and five years ago, and that era is ending and marvel stuff is going to go on Hulu, and it's going to go on Disney. Plus, but it's not gonna go on Netflix, and Netflix is not going to give its competitor money for shows that are built on intellectual property, it doesn't control. So that model is over. And so these shows are over and there is if you're a fan of those shows, it's really sad. There's probably not a big chance that they will ever come back in any form. Elsewhere, it's not completely impossible. But there. Several years where Netflix gets to sit on them and have them be exclusive on their service yet season three. Jessica Jones is coming out soon that's going to be lost. And that's it for these. Apparently that one they knew enough about what was going on with all the other shows that that is what I've heard is that that that series ends with a a more with some more finality in terms of storytelling because I think they they had the heads up that this was going to be the end end of marvel on Netflix. Going to one a media. They did call out specifically that they would have some shows set of the DC universe. Oh, yes. The thing future original content because that's something that they have hand. And if they do a good job of it. They can really they could really make some cool stuff. Yeah. The real mystery is what this means for the DC universe service, which is DC video content, and movies, and comics, my guess is that like HBO the Warner streaming service will be a super set because I think that's another thing that Riley says that you know, HBO content will be in the in the Warner streaming service. Like I unclear whether all of it will be or not. But I I have a hard time believing that it won't be you can get H B O for this low price, you can get DC universe for this low price, and for this lightly larger price, you can get Warner cer- streaming service with everything, but we'll see how they do it. Because you know, why do you wanna make DC shows for just this one? Niche streamer, it seems like that's that's a decision. They would make today. They would they would say we don't DC universe streaming. And they may they may fold the whole thing up and put it inside at some point. And they're the plan is to get this out early. I think sometime in twenty twenty but the content for this and the NBC universal streaming services coming in twenty twenty it sounds like it's everything we talked about about apple which takes a long time to make content and that that means that they're going to start with a small amount. And then they're going to have to build it over time. Now, they'll start with catalogs both of these because they have catalogs of content that they own unlike apple, but you know, it takes a couple years to roll out a full slate of shows for streaming service and they're both behind. So it'll be a what he called it. Like a beta version in two thousand twenty which is really like. Yeah. It'll be I think not I don't think it will necessarily be so much beta in terms of functionality as beta in terms of what's on it. All she's wall stuff away HBO. And some some some DC and maybe like another couple of shows and a catalog, and then we'll figure it out and more shows next year. All right. 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So it looks like there's going to be an event apple event much twenty fifth. This news kind of roll it out slowly over the loss week started with a report from John Paschi of BuzzFeed prac- Saskia reported an upcoming event Ammash twenty fifth at the Steve Jobs theater. Apple pock that would be focused on streaming. Well on services, I should say sorry focused on services hausky spoke about pretty much primarily news description service. This happens just a couple of days off the the rumor that came out the apple wanted to take a fifty percent cut for publishes wanna walk with them on this of us. Jason we spoken about this new service. We spoken about the hesitancy of news organizations wanted to work with apple now, we may be no a little bit more about why that is right. Well, the fifty fifty cut. Which is rumored to be what they're doing is they want they want fifty fifty which seems to be maybe the deal that a lot of the magazines who are. Kind of desperate or taking because apple has obviously sold them on the idea that the that this is going to be huge. And there's going to be a lot of money, and we're just going to be. It's doesn't matter that we're taking half of the money for your content because we're all going to be rolling in dough because everybody's gonna pay money for this. And you know, it's not been been Thompson wrote a great piece about it on strategic ary. Basically, I if you're a premium subscription model company, like your time of Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, this deal doesn't make sense. I don't think it makes sense thirty percent. I don't think it makes sense at fifteen percent, quite honestly. But it it certainly doesn't make sense at fifty percent for them. But if you're a smaller publisher, and you're desperate for more incremental revenue, maybe it works. I a this report makes me think that it will be a work in progress when it launches and that they'll Apple's going to have to make some recalibration 's. And I just I don't have. I don't have a really good vibe about the service. I remain open to the possibility that it will be good. But I'm skeptical because it seems like a bad deal for publishers, which means it's going to be a limited number of publishers. And maybe I get I don't know. I just get the feeling that this may suggest that apple has an unrealistic opinion of what this is that they think that they've solved it and that a lot of their partners. Don't agree and are not willing to sign onto this. And without a good selection of partners. It's hard to sell something. Like this. You throw it in a bun. Title, which is I suspect. Now, what they're going to do having having gotten the, you know, adding this to the list, and we talked about this. I think last time that makes me feel the bundle is really going to happen. And if you bundle it with music video, maybe that's part of the calculation there. Although what what is the bundle? You know, fifty percent of whatever they assign the value of the news percentage of the bundle. At that point. I don't know and also dependent on people actually reading Oakland. Right. Because it seems like from the the that can be paying out the money based on engagement in apple new, right? So you can go in on this. But you might not make anything it also means that if you are somebody who gets paid by readers to make content your goal is to serve your readers. If you're somebody who gets paid by the number of pages, viewed guess what click bait time like this is a model that unless they've come up with some very clever ways, which I doubt to beat it. It means that they'll be click bait within apple news because you want to drive engagement with your story. So you get a bigger percentage. And I don't think that's good. You won't believe what happened next. Jason, you will know Willie believe it in just checking apple news and you'll find out. So, you know, we'll see. But I think what's interesting is that Picasso's story was followed up by by Gherman, right? And Gherman said, yes, it's the apple video launch. Also news will be there, which it makes much more sense. Right. Can't really imagine. The tap dancing onstage lives in a little bit. Because possess key source says in the article like his said, he had no details on whether the video service will we'll be shown because his sources somebody in in a magazine somewhere. Could be any anything. Right. Like, we don't know the public that mean, that's probably the case. But anyway, it's really somebody who's only been briefed about what they need to do to participate in the news part of the event. Well, he say that he he's he's claiming though Hardouin though, an Ponson though, I chance that's that's true. That's your. Although that seems very very separate and not surprising. That could be a secondary thing. He has a separate separate hardware source. And so this lead lots of people to believe that. Oh, well, there's going to be a video service launch. And and you know, I'm sure I'm sure you agreed. With may actually you did from reading your article on six colors kind of you'll link to tobacco skis point on this. His report it seemed madness to me that you would have an event like this show off the streaming service stuff that's the crown jewel. Not this. Widow magazine service. Soundly, so Montgomery and new show Sukhoi. So qui- of Bloomberg. They had a report the apple has invited. Many the stars. They are working with two event as we spoken about many times in the pasta because they will indeed be showing the first information video service. Apparently this list includes Jj Abrams. Jennifer, Aniston Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Ghana. I saw variety as well. That that variety saying that they have had this will include the first trailers clips, if there are any we'll shown, but this is still like, hey, some two full thing. Yes. That is really. That was really interesting, and I wonder obviously, they're going to have foot 'age to show. Right. I think it might even turn into something kinda like the up fronts where it's literally apple saying, here's what our lineup is. Or it may be here. Here's some samples of the shows. We're doing with the people who are involved with them. In. It wouldn't shock me if they even release pilots right or release a handful of things to people on apple music as a teaser for the whole thing that's coming in the fall. That's a possibility certainly trailers. But but the variety note is interesting in that it contradicts other reports that have said that they need that they told them that the service is launching April. Which what does that mean what variety says is it's literally March April they're going to do a rollout, which may be this event. And then maybe they dropped some sample episodes or something but variety says the bulk of the content at least is gonna launch summer or fall of this year, which is also a new a new thing that that, you know, from their sources of the variety, and the Bloomberg reports mentioned multiple times again, the idea that apple will be selling of channel. Subscriptions through this of like Amazon prime does. So maybe that's what comes in and before the content, right? Like, oh doing mole with the TV app. Now, you'll be able to buy this channel in the shadow in this channel right in the TV at maybe that comes first, we don't know. But that could be something that apple does if they don't have enough of their own content. Put forward new service is stated slate to be shipping with twelve point two in the summa. Maybe maybe some of this TV stuff comes with that at the same time. Who knows this is going to be a real interest in draft. Yeah, you're right. The picks are going to be super with right like Jj Abrams. His ex essential existential draft of like what like imaginary weird apple that? We haven't seen before. Yeah. Absolutely. I think Jj Abrams James is an enormous apple fan. So I I think I can really see him like running up on stage and being like, I just so excited to beat Nabela vent kind of thing would not surprise me at all. But yeah. It that's a an event like, no, no other Mike. And so that'll be interesting. Yeah. Upgrade listeners the see if we can do the service that we try and help you out with sometimes this is probably going to be a really boring vent, right? There's going to be a law. Celebrities come out when Drake came out cry that five times in a row because that's what this one's going to be like, you know, a bunch of stars is gonna come out direct is gonna come out. And I'm gonna talk about their shows. Like, you're not gonna get anything exciting Okina. Sneak a one thing new ipad in there on you. Then do in that right? Like, his someone from the Wall Street Journal porno the luxury journal, but like his from vogue, his Jj Abrams and his Eddie cute. It's all about it. All like, it's it's going to be re is going to be a slug this one. I think so just in mind. Wow. You mentioned Drake. I can't believe you mentioned Drake. That's that the analogue right? That's the closest approach Drake out to talk about. I don't even know what he was talking about. Because like it wasn't. They didn't have anything specific with them. And so I think it's going to be is going to be a very kind of Regula press event. Typically, the type of thing that we don't see from apple right? But like, you'll get a lot of companies duties types of things you mentioned the up fronts if you don't know what they are. This is when a bunch of regime sees and advertising agencies will come to rooms. And then the meteorologists what his on you shows. They are cost up front surro- TV out fronts. Here's a slate of content coming out this year with the proviso that you hopefully wanna buy it. Yeah. The president of NBC goes out on stage. All the shows that are coming in the fall and say now, you wanna buy ads on all of these is going to be like that. And whilst apple apple kind of spinning in a slight. A different way. And just like, hey, press his anew shows, and maybe wanna biology's, and as in by into Louise, and it's going to be a very Eric and a very very very different guest-list Timmel lot more entertainment journalists, right? Would would be your expectation is going to be it's going to be an interesting one for us. I don't know if the apple fan base lodge is going to have a love warm worlds to say about this event. I feel people be sitting down to expect one thing and probably gonna get of we'll say, it's just a different thing. And and I should say as the specter of Drake covers over us. Both this what the event should be right. Like, it's not an ounce is no criticism for me. One hundred percent what it has to be bringing the celebrities really important. I'm still surprised that they're doing it in Cooper Tino. And not doing it Nellie. Like I felt like they really wanna glitz it up. But maybe they feel like the the stamp of the big fancy theater in coup. Patino is a better way to do it. But I'm a little surprised that they didn't do this as like a full on apple embraced Hollywood kind of thing. But maybe they were uncomfortable with that. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe maybe say the China at a bit of importance to only iphones have been introduced, right? Like the Steve Josette. That's what it's been useful. So far September funky knows. I don't think it'd be used for anything else. So like, we'll have special come out to a beautiful spaceship, and we'll treat you real nice. That's true. That's true. They could treat them treat them. I I guess we will have to choose. Whether we want to draft Jj Abrams comes out wearing vintage apple jacket. I the genuinely we're gonna have to think about going a little bit Esa Tarik with this one because things going to be there's going to be a ton of stuff. And we also know a lot more than we would know. So this this is going to be a really fun one to put together. I think it's going to be that'd be that'd be wild. That'd be towards the end. Watch. So we'll probably know him in the next two or three weeks reckon if this thing's this thing's going down when the revolt set suggested it is. All right. Let's take a second break and thank all friends over fresh books for this support of this show. Everyone loves to save time. 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A thanks the fresh books for that continued support of this show and really him. Friend of the show Minky Roger quo as we call him Roger codename, Roger codename Raja actual name nineties actually named this disc stems from new listeners stems from a time when for some reason Jason randomly cooled me Chee quo Raja because I went to college with that was a guy Roger quo. Yeah. Brings a weird. What can I say? So. Quo drop to. Yeah. Okay. Good job absolute bombshell of report on everybody yesterday. And there's a lotta stuff hip, it's it's kind of unclear at some points as these things tend to be 'cause quotas is a an analyst how much he knows how much he is expecting. But this list rings true to I would expect to see over apple over the next year. So let's go through some of this, and we'll stop and talk about some along the way. So some details about the current will the upcoming I should say twenty nineteen. I phones sizes and kind of basic specs remaining as you expect can change any of the size of the phones. They can keep lightning pulse. In oakland. Go to US BC the chief John Jiang will go by lateral, which means the iphones can charge stuff as well. As getting charged by cheese. So your app halts for exa-. Sample. If you're at pods got a wireless charging case, then you be able to charge those with your iphone, which I think will be a really really wonderful feature. But I bet wool make the cost of replacing that back glossy for more expensive than it. Currently is the token about that the gloss will be frosted on the new iphone. So I'll give it slightly different. Look intrigued to see what that ends up. Looking like if it maybe means some different college changes to make that that show through. But that that's different. Look an interesting. Look, we'll say the the pixel line is gloss and has this weird texture to it makes it look very different. So might be nice at a hold Moghreb people say upgraded face ID bunch of new intones face eighty hopefully making it foster maybe making it what from of distances say big batteries. That would be nice when the Jason just a big about if he can fit them in the church. Always that's part of the constant. Apple question of trade offs is. Size and thickness, but also battery and capacity and trying to extend the life. So yeah, that would be nice always unquote will so kind of echoes the rumor of triple cameras, but does not say with we'll see those like his warm phone all the phones. That's kind of the the information close given us about the iphones. This'll seems pretty logical to me like the bilateral charging. I think maybe the most helpful of that. It's not a huge update cycle and people will probably Howell constantly between now and win. They're released an after they're released about the fact that iphone sales or flat, and this year's models are not going to necessarily be an enormous change. It's also not surprising and not new this is sort of, you know, it takes a long time to make changes in their plant iphones and these iphones were already on the way. So these are the logical not super exciting. But you know, continuing to be available of versions of what we got this year. Or last year? It's the it's next year's half step. This is a surprise to me upgraded processes with two new pepper models. That is seem strange seems different right to take the Karnei pep pros. But new processes in the map hasn't done that for the ipad proline, they've waited right until they've been able to make big changes to the to the models. That would be interesting keen to understand why that would be so needed. And if that's old that they really would be for them. Yeah. I guess it's them treating them more like, laptops. Guess I I wonder if there's more here in terms of things they're doing for a new versions of IOS or something like that where the wanna put different hardware in there. But it does seem a little bit. I mean, I'm not gonna complain about a new I've had pro model in two thousand nineteen. But I I really didn't think that they would bother doing a yearly cycle for them. So that was a surprise his something that trying to work with trying to think through this. So the small hasty all right that required the most recent chip. And so, you know, it's the devices could do it. So they might just be some software thing that requires these new chips, and it might be an interesting the phones guest at it too. So maybe they decide to put it in the pros as well. I don't know. But that's the only thing I can think of if that's gonna do right that there might be some. Thing that is going to be a cool feature. And they would like to be on the ipad swell. But they need the new processes in them because you know, these process powerful, it's not like. You're gonna need a speed bump that seems unlikely. But again, we don't know what. Assad team's going to bring in general. Yeah. Right. Right. And there may be something like that is not part of close sources that are like explanations why they're doing this. But it may just be that. They just decided why don't we keep cycling that processor every year as we cycle it for the iphone and just keep them on the same page. I don't know sticking on the train ten point two inch version of the base, ipads, taking the current kind of regular ipad and take it from nine point seven inches to ten point two's making the basil smaller plus pad many, which quos states have just having a new process. A I expect to see the menu of new processor. He also mentions the touch kind of getting the same treatment. This feels like potentially that the processes that currently in these devices won't be supported anymore, and they wanna keep selling them yet. They have to. That's that's this is the thing that we talked about the macbook air at some point to which is like at some point. You can't keep making that thing. Like, you can't you just can't. It's too old. And you can't move ahead with your product line and sell a product that doesn't work with your product line. So it is the. I fascinated by it because there's just the basic idea that. We have to make decision about this product that we kind of don't care about. And the easy decision is to stop selling it. But there's somebody inside Abbas like, wait. Oh, don't you've got to keep selling it for some reason. Like, all right. Okay. Fine. We'll just put another processor in put back out there, which is a little bit. Like, the MAC mini story. Right. Like, it's you you need to do something. What are you going to do? All right. We'll do it. And then we're gonna let it sit there again for five more years in the really big story to wild story is a sixteen inch macbook pro. So I think easiest thing to assume here is talking a fifteen inch macbook pro within Abaza lls, bright give it a biggest screen as opposed to a brand new form factor. Yeah. I so what he says. It's a redesigned yet. He says redesigned, I take that to believe that maybe this is the first in what will be a series of replacements for the existing Akwa proline that this is the next generation of macbook pro in. It's starting with this model now, maybe that's wishful thinking, but that's my that's my hope is that. That's what it is. I think I think the fifteen inches. A real is a real question. Right. Which is we know that apple has had success in just pushing the bells in right light to or I mean, I guess out making the making him super thin, and that's a trend in the laptop world in general PC, laptops, as well. So when we say sixteen or or I think said sixteen or sixteen plus in some of think so much sixteen sixty point five is the yeah. My gut feeling is that ultimately this is the replacement for the fifteen inch MAC pro. But what it is is thinner Basil's, and maybe a wider, maybe the MO the laptop gets a little wider, but they will make some claim about it being thinner or lighter or better by volume or whatever it is. Right. But I don't think what what we used to think of as the step from the thirteen to fifteen to seventeen which was an enormous distance and size. I don't think that's the kind of size difference. You would get from this one. That's my feeling is that this isn't like the new lunch tray of seventeen inch laptop that what they're trying to do is create a fifteen inch model Amiga fifteen inch model with more screen space without it being enormous. And that that in the end. Yeah. In the end, maybe the product line is the sixteen inch macbook pro a. Fourteen inch macbook pro instead of you know, what we have now with the two thirteen inch models. And then you have the thirteen inch air on the twelve inch MAC book. Maybe that's maybe that's where they're headed. I mean that would make a lot more sense that would start to differentiate the whole lineup again in the past. Right. Just like the the, ipads. You're pro models have bigger screens, and some fancier tech, and they're up at the up at the high end, and those small vessels like it is it starts whether it's the right story is an open question. But it starts to sound like an interesting parallel to what they've done with the ipad to differentiate them. Which is they've got the technology now to really slim down, those Bethel's, and and use that space for screen and that and that means that they make a choice. Do I wanna make the laptop smaller or do I wanna make the screen bigger? And for a pro given what they've talked about about the pro users on the MAC for a pro laptop. Why would you not on the big per laptop? Why would you not give those people more screen space like they value more screen space? So it kind of follows I think it's I think it's really interesting says this is something that. Nobody has talked about before to my knowledge. This is a new one and it opens because he says new design it really does open. The question of do. We get face ID. For once because you got to fit all those sensors into that into that smaller basil little hatch thing, but they but the the ipad has it, but the ipad is thicker than the screen parring Makpo, but they could or could they do it with a combination of different sensors and machine learning they could put that censor- they could shoot up from by the keyboard and shoot up into your face from there to look at you. I mean, I don't know there's stuff they could do with optics and like sensors in different places, I want to be open to that. But and then the big one, of course, is they could rethink the keyboard. The could probably would. I mean, I'm intrigued to see what a fully new design like so his my think if you put these if you put this laptop next to a fifteen inch current macbook pro would you would you see how much difference? Would you see that's what I've really one the because like I feel like laptop design has been is a solved thing. Now. Like, they look how they look, and I would be superintendent to see what a new design looks like like, what could they do the that? I'm not seeing a will it me out those new design mean, it has a big screen and we've re-engineered in the some ways to make X Y betta, right? Like a fully new design. Could mean we had to go back to the beginning to make the Keeble at work and keep it thin. I it could it could my guess is that. And this is just a guess is that it'll look more like the ipad pro which already United does. But more like that more more less rounded corners shell thinner. More more of those. Yeah. More those right angles and and a little less of the curves. But that's just a guess that again, I'm trying to place that ipad pro parallel. And I always feel like apple is always striving to have their whole product line kinda work in harmony, and it doesn't because that's very very very hard to do that. And like the iphone for example, he doesn't say in this the iphones are going to look different. And they're gonna look more like the I've had pro which is something people have commented on those had pros. Look great. What if the iphone looked like that? And, you know, close as no he says, that's not gonna happen. I almost go them. Roger again, it's fine to codename Roger. But I think they try right? I think they try to have harmony between their products, they want apple really wants apple products to feel of a kind which is a challenge when you have to completely different operating systems, which is why they're also pushing the operating systems closer together. So that if they do a hardware redesign here, it might only be internal stuff like keyboards and all of that. But I think they might take the opportunity to take whatever this design languages that. They use the ipad pro and also apply to this. The, you know, the normally I would say what what's their most recently released laptop. And what does that tell us about where they're going with with laptop design? But what it tells us is nothing because it's a retro design. It's literally just a MAC book air design updated. So it tells us nothing, so we're left we're left just guessing until they released one of these things, and then with this one we will read the tea leaves and say, oh, this is going to be what all the future, laptops, look like. But I think the chances are good here based on what close saying that that this. This is going to be that laptop where it's the model and all the rest of them will follow it for the next three years or whatever allow me to stop the speculation train. Jason, okay. All right. We put some fire in the engines full in the in the engine of the locomotive. The the speculation train is now rolling down the track Mike Intel are boy Intel Intel. Yeah, I think arm transition is going to happen. But boy, I think putting it at the pro lines. Surprise with. This is to say it, you know, just want to say because it's a thing. Right. Like, it is a thing that is it's flowing out there. We don't know what it's going to look like we don't know when it's going to happen. But you know, like, we would expect this product probably not replace the fifteen inch for a while party be too expensive, and alongside it. So okay. I never know. Okay. So here here I'll I'll throw something in. I'm going to be the I'm going to do the most wild speculation of all which is it's going to have an arm processor in it. Because the the T two is in most of the new max now all all the new maximum. What if it has an arm processor? That's more like an iphone ipad processor in addition to Intel and you have the ability to target software to it. Yes. Because we're entering marzipan land. And also these are used by developers in their Iowa's developers. So having run on the actual hardware is kind of an interesting idea. Maybe this is the machine that if you wanna do this type development. This is the one that you should be buying and I'll just throw on top of that at that point. If you're going to be because again wild speculation well speculation why would that new nice screen not be a touchscreen? All. Damn. I'm an Iowa developer. I am developing touch software. I want to run it on my screen. Maybe I wanna touch interact with it as interact. Jason one. If that new start a rumor, let's start a Luma right now. Let's do what if Jason that new design includes a hinge that allows you to flip the screen all the way round the back. Jay, some don't you lost me? Really aren't facile land increasingly bizarre, the train is so far off the rails. Now, Mike it's off the rails. It's in the canyon disclaim. These are official predictions. Go wild speculation. No. But I do I mean, I think if I'm we are only able to view what apple is doing from the outside. Obviously, they're the ones who know what their strategy ultimately as MAC OS, and I o s where they're taking all this. But if the speculation is right about like, more apps on the MAC and bringing them much closer together in terms of their interfaces, and in terms of their platform and touches such a big part of mobile and apple has not done touch on laptops, for reasons involving like MAC OS suitability to it. But now we're bringing in all these out from IRS. I keep asking the question like, I don't know whether that's a good idea or not. But I would imagine that if you're somebody inside apple talking about the future of the MAC book pro and your audience, a huge part of your audio. Is graphic designers and and developers that having touch for an apple pencil for marzipan apps or just in X code for doing app testing and previewing on your laptop is I mean, it's worth asking the question. If. And everybody freaks out when you talk about max people who who have really believed everything apple said about it's bad experiences on beyond. All those things fact is it's not a primary interaction method. It's not even on the laptops that have touchscreens. People don't spend all their time with his ambi- arms up touching the screen. But as an extra thing, it has applications, and so I think it's I just wanna put it out there because I think I would be surprised if apple never ads touch support to the displays on max. I would be surprised, but but they might not. Anyway, I think it's worth worth going down that road like what other IRS tech could they put into these things and alpha pencil support. Is one of them touch. Support is one of them arm processors that can actually run software of like run apps is one of them, and that would also create a transitional development machine, if the platform is going to arm, right? You expect some point some of these things are gonna happen. This could be the beginning of some of it. Right. That's that's the thinking. Thirty one eight six cakes tunnel display. I I saw this was like sure why not six six K. Actually, we've heard a lot from people and on other podcasts about how the five K that. Like we use. Our max apple has talked up is not really a thing in the broader computer industry, like five K displays are not really what people are doing. They are they are pushing further out into like eight AK displays and all that. So he's thirty one inch six K display. Is I could see that. Like why stop at five when you can have six why stop at twenty seven when you can have thirty one inches of display, especially if the Bengals are really small as opposed to like our max, which have huge vessels. Quite jump from. We don't make money is any more. It don't make them anymore, by the way, his one in six years the best monitor of all time. Yeah. Many LED backlight design. I don't know what. That means. I'm going to wait for you to tell me a bit more. Yeah. It's a different kind of LED back lighting this supposed to be better. That's that seems to be what it is. I Don outstanding picture quality. Of course. Of course. I'm sure we'll have all the colors will literally run the gamut. Anyway. Yeah. All the colors is what I think I think June WBZ, we get laptop on the monitor. And then they say his MAC pro looks like and it will be outlay of. That's why I ain't got. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's I think that's about right? That's that's going to be some one of get to draft that. But, but that's my gut feeling is that they will mention the MAC pro and do like they did with the I MAC pro they will unveil it the trash can they did they did it for both of them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you can see it. And then it'll be available later, but the monitor could come out, but the one of the reasons I think that it's just based upon the information that quote gave like he references the MAC pro doesn't say anything new about it. Which makes me think that the macbook pro the accent play closer to production because everybody knows that means he quo's sources come from the production line in the supplies. So maybe maybe these two products which had new products. Right. Nobody spoken about either of these two things. Things at all anywhere before now. So if close on the money, which a lot of the time, he is I would make make make you think that these things close. Maybe in the MAC pro is so yeah, we'll see about that. Last. Couple pots a new ceramic casing for the apple watch and e c to roll out to mall countries at pods too. Will have while Johnson case and upgraded bluetooth connectivity. So I guess maybe the blues will be better in some way and of eight needs to was judging case if the phone could charge them an believe in on not I don't believe it or not power to ship during the first half of twenty nineteen believe it or not. Indeed, I think it's going to happen. I think it sounds like. It's not the air power that they announced. I obviously, that's that's the truth of it is that this is almost certainly a completely different product that they've engineered because I had to go back to the drawing board my heard there was a story about how it's going to be like way thicker, the may show and and stuff like that. But it sounds like it's it's in the works and air power and the airports too. And I've heard I heard from somebody in in in a I'll say position close to retail that that the air pods are becoming kind of hard to come by in the in the product chain in the supply seen people talking about that that like they're out suckle frequently now. Yeah. Which makes I am skeptical that what this means is that they are they have ceased production of the old air pods and have begun making the new air pods. And it may be that the the way this works is. It just stock is reduced. So if you run out you can't get more from the factory. So instead, they kinda like take it out of wherever there is stock and they move it around. So it may not be imminent. But it feels like the air pods are coming sooner rather than later because they're having all of these issues with with keeping them in stock. That's not a run on air pods is that they may be preparing to turn it over and seller pods number two instead. So Roger Raja, thank you. She quo. Thank you. It's a lot to go on there. And I'm I'm really intrigued to think more and more people talk about this. But pro I like macrumors this is like I phones. Yeah. They'll be new ipads. Yeah. They'll be they'll be upgrades. Oh now. Let me tell you about all the new Maxon external devices and stuff like, okay, cool. That's cool. Yeah. I'm still most interested in learning. More about the MAC pro. I think that that is the most likely product to my future. You know? I I really like a MAC pro I could see Mike keep fifteen years and keep upgrading. That's that's what I'm I'm on. My twenty fifteen retina Rimac in the moment. No desire to change. It machine is brilliant. Like, I don't feel the requirement to get an a MAC pro doesn't. I don't need it. But I like the idea of a of a MAC that I could just just be up and leave for a long time. But the provides it I then change graphics cons and change ramble easily in the future. Right. So like, I buy a ten amac instead of a three MAC, you know, I've got my eye on that. But it might be more than I need properties. Mullan I need, but we won't know into it. Yeah. This year this year, this you. All right. Today's episode is also brought to you by Luna display friends over Luna display, a helping many of us can hopefully helping some of you can help some of you save money and improve your workflow talking about external displays, right? Everybody loves displays your ipad has a great display. Beautiful retinas. Play. Wouldn't it be lovely? If you could use it as an external display Fiene MAC will you can Luna display. You don't need spend a fortune extra screens feel MAC because you have one right that you can use Linda display will let you by just plugging in a tiny dungle into the back of your MAC connect of a WI fi or USB for more screen real estate by employing your ipad and giving it that job to do. You can have multiple screens about needing to spend the money on news, grains, even better when you travel as well if you travel of laptop an ipad because that's us travel kit. That's that's my travel all the time. I can use Luna display to have. Second display mall space when I'm walking on my laptop which has a much smaller screen in my MAC. So it's nice to have that extended screen real estate. All you can do what I do. I have a MAC mini sing here. And I use Luna display to connect to my MAC mini. My MAC mini runs about display attached to it. And I can have MAC OS like an apple my ipad, which is a wonderful experience. I enjoyed greatly and allows me to to easily tackle some of the things that the ipad falls down on. So I really really have absolutely love. My lunatics plays. Totally change my workflows like genuinely when when I got it. I thought oh this'll be a nice thing to have. But it is ended up becoming an essential of the work that I've been doing recently. So I'm a big fan of it. Don't just take my word for it tech crunch. For example, said that the visuals without is frankly stunning which it is they actually just made it better. They did some upgrades to their engine recently. And it's and they've made it even better than ever before runs so much smoother. Yeah. Just trust me. Go get one of these things. Go to Luna display dot com. L U N A DSP L A Y, don't come and enter the promo code upgrade at checkout. You'll get ten percent off a lunatic splice that his Luna display dot com. Promo code upgrade at checkout. It is handy. It's small and save you money on extra screens one loss time. Luna display dot com. Promo code upgrade for ten percent off. Thanks to Luna display for the support of the show. Every often the lunar display does make me have moments where I think I understand why apple. Is hesitant. You would need to make some changes to how MAC OS works for it to make sense as a touchscreen right now, if you really want to interact with all parts of it. I use my apple pencil. That's that's how I do it. That's true. Good point. I it's it's tricky away with with. I mean it works works. But the apple pencil makes it just like a customs perfect soiling. That's how using it. Yeah. Jason. Should we just mashed great? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. This is a we didn't unfortunately events continue to occur. So we haven't had chance to do. Our mega ask upgrade episode, but we can clear out a bunch today. I think we must certainly can off us question comes from Frank today. Frank says immer gos- the rumors of a fifty percent commission and apple newsgroups from revenue. She spoke about earlier in the show what at the rumors will leak strategically managing expectations. Remember how relieved we'll fell in two thousand and ten when the first I Pat started a five hundred dollars instead of the room at one thousand what do you think about that? I think it's I think it somebody leaking that information strategically I I think this is negotiating negotiating in the press. I my guess is that there's somebody who so outraged by the fifty percent that apple wants to charge somebody probably for a newspaper that they leaked it because they want they want apple. To look bad. And it's possible that it's apple playing a game where they, you know, said a high number, and then they changed. But I I doubt it I think it's more likely that somebody who's kind of outraged in his hoping that Alkan will be this will put more pressure on apple from other publishers to not make a deal with them. So that they back down and they changed their their percent commission. But it does definitely feel like like I said one of the last time we talked about rumors like six months ago. Always ask yourself. Why it got leaked always ask yourself? Why did this information come out and for something like being she quo? It's people in his production. He's got sources in the production line. And he's reporting on the supply chain, and he saying which companies are building what and the people there are motivated probably by just possibly by money. And if not that then they are they like that. They're feeding analysts that information. But for something like this. I think it's very clearly motivated by something that. Caused this to leak and my at beyond just oh, I know I know a percentage number it feels more like it probably was tactical of this is ridiculous. Literally this to the press and apple get roasted agree. Yeah. Like apple. I feel probably do should he leaking from time to time. But this wouldn't be one of the things that they would care like the cats tell the public about this is not general public information. This is why would you leak to the public fifty percent number and then go back to the people you've been ago shitting with for the last six months and say, okay, we'll make it thirty percent. Now that it's leaked it doesn't make any sense. So yeah, that's right. The audience here isn't really the public because it's the people they're negotiating with. So I think it's far more likely that this is the negotiation sessions on the other side where they're saying. This is outrageous. I'm going to shame you in public. And then maybe he'll get the get the word from everybody that everybody thinks that you're this is ridiculous not saying it will work, but that. Feels more. What it is is somebody who's frustrated that apple is sticking to this number that is bananas. Like, it's just I can't I can't believe it. I mean, I kind of believe it 'cause it's apple, but it doesn't make any sense to me. And I wouldn't take that deal for if I was again, maybe there's some businesses that it makes sense for, but I have a hard time conceiving of what those would be so nice question comes from Eric. Eric says with the other category being renamed to wearables, home and excessive his what isn't new product in that area. You think could be profitable. Apple like with privacy stance. Eric would love to see home cameras security systems there any areas that you think ample is likely to move into when it comes to home technology. I would say right now. No apple seems to have decided they're just not gonna bother making smart home products. I think what I mean, what do they make they make? Home pot. They make the home pot, and they make a bet it, right? The sleep sensor which they bought and they still sell and I have one one of these days. I'm going to read about it. It, but it's a weird thing. And and like why is that product there? And I think it's to feed home kit data, and because they they wanted it. But my bigger overarching question here is I'm a little bit mystified. Why apple has decided they're just not gonna bother competing and they're going to let Google I mean, you look at the euro acquisition by Amazon, you're letting other tech giants build infrastructure in smart home tech. And you just don't you? Just don't care like you got out of the wifi. They're in the with the home pod. And that's about it it one level. It allows them to say we just want everybody us home kit, and then it'll all work, and I'll be great. But on another level. I think you're letting your competitors by out everything, and you're not you're not gonna choose to compete and when Emma's on owns Eero. I do have that moment where I think if I were at apple I would be like, wait everything that happens on a network is going to be seen by our competitors, potentially. Like, why would we not want to why do we stop making airport? Why did we not make our own mesh networking where we guarantee that? Your data is secure we live in an era where competitors are the people who are using WI fi are often using it from either their cable company or they're using it from like, Google or Amazon. Now, why would we not wanna do it? But they obviously made a decision they can reverse themselves. They've done it in the past to just save. Now, we're not gonna we're not gonna bother unless it can be an enormous hit or isn't acce-. Essary to one of our enormous hits. We're just gonna walk away. It's weird. It's weird. I don't I don't think I agree with that approach. I feel like it would be more apple like for them to make these products. But at the same time, I'm really sensitive that it really seems like apple can't even reliably update and develop the products that it it has that the way that company works their attention is has to be focused on a very small number of things. And maybe somebody inside apple said, you know, what we could we could build wifi routers, or smart thermostat or whatever. But it's going to be super like distraction for us, and we don't need that kind of distraction. I just for a company their size with the money. They've got I'm a little prize that they just haven't built a smart, home division, and put everything inside of it and let let their speakers and thermostat and WI fi and all sorts of other stuff like that go in there and let them compete. Feet. But but it is possible that they've just decided philosophically they'd rather get everybody to use home kit, and then you can use anybody's stuff with apple stuff. The the wifi is the one that gets me though, that because that's like Eero being bought really made me think. Apple maybe you should have not punted on on wifi after all because there's a market, right? Some people in the products, and and that and your competitors are among the leading manufacturers of that stuff. It was reported over the weekend by CNBC. The apple hide guy named Sam Jadalla who used to look Mark soft. Then started a company auto which ended up not working out. It was like a small look and CNBC's reporting that dollar is gonna be revamping the small business, whatever that means could be could be apple branded products could be different stuff home kit. We don't know, but they did hire somebody who has experienced making small hot, hotly. Interesting interesting. If I I I don't know the details of all of that business and their and their culture on the inside. But I will say it feels like a missed opportunity for apple not to plan. Some of these smart home. Spaces and not to have maybe bought up some of these smart home companies that are now going to be guided by their competitors in among giant tech companies. Our NAS 'cause I have a mid twenty eleven I'm Eric and considering you met many, my understanding is that the adapters can use target display mode to display the mini to the MAC is this a viable long-term solution. Should I by anyone to? I I mean, it depends on your feelings about retina is what it comes down to to me. Which is if you've got an imac that supports target display. It's not a retina, amac, which means you've got an imac running and target display mode. With new Mak mini that's capable of retina and the can't display retina. And so you're going to get, you know, a nice picture, but it's going to be a low resolution picture. I don't consider that a long term solution. But maybe you don't care. I would buy new monitor because at this point. I don't wanna use a MAC without a Renan's play. But, but if you want to save money and don't care about retina than it's viable. I think I have not used an eye MacIntosh display mode for any length of time at all. So I can't say just how annoying it would be over time to have to be putting it in target display mode and all of that because it is a computer and you have to put it in target display mode. But so I would say in the end, I I'm skeptical of its ability to be a long term solution. It's a solution. But because of the fiddly nature of it being an I MAC in target mode and not retina, I wouldn't consider personally along solution. Stevens. Do you think that Apple's new subscription news of she'll be limited to existing companies countries, currently, the USA, UK Australia, and I think Canada Canada's even just just about two or do you think is going to roll out more broadly than that apple news is so slow to roll out that I think it's going to be limited. I think I think it'll be limited. It may be even USA only at launch. I know they're going into Canada. Finally, they announced they're going into Canada. And the way there was that they wanted to go into Canada multi-lingual. So that they'd have French and English versions. Every you go to Europe. You gotta make a deal with European publishers. You gotta Asia you gotta make a deal with Asian publishers. I think this is more likely to make it worse rather than better. Yeah. Yeah. So my my gut feeling is that it's probably a US only rollout, maybe US and UK. But like they're they're still struggling to negotiate with the US and the one the done without yet. Then they'll have to go to the UK and the Goshi it they're when they're done with that they'll have to go to Germany and negotiate their like, that's what they're going to have to do. And that's that's a lot. That's a lot. I don't envy them because they have to make a deal with every single, you know, they have to approach every single publisher and talk to them one on one and have those arguments about fifty percent. Are you crazy? And like every time I I don't wanna be that person. I feel for that person who has to get yelled at about what apple terms are. So I think it's going to be a slow roll out. And I think like I said earlier, I think it's also going to be something where the product is not quite fully formed launch. And that they continue to tweet. It. They may get there with it. But I think I'm really skeptical that it is not going to be kind of broken when it launches. And finally, Jeff all six do you think they is or could be viable market for a second home pod device? Different size, different focus, kind of so much question is kind of in to fall to you Jason one. Do you think they could be into if they wasn't your mind? What does that look like, well, I I've been meaning to write this for a while. And I'm far from the first person to have this idea. But I think just a Sonus has done this. I think apple should make a sound bar. I think apple should make a Syrian abled sound bar. I'll go further and say, I think apple should make a cereal bar. That's also an apple TV and you plug it into your TV, and it makes nice sound and gives you surrounded sort of sound and will also plug into your TV and let you have stuff on your TV menu. And do all the things that Napa Levy does. And it'll look good and it'll sound good. And and it'll do it'll do Siri whether the TV's on or not and play music that sounds good. Like that. That's the one that. I keep thinking of is an opportunity for apple to get people. Why attach an apple TV to your TV? Well, if it comes with if it's a sound bar. That's also an apple TV, then you're getting good sound on your HDTV. Plus you pick up all the apple stuff. And I feel like there's a product there that maybe would be more give people more reason to buy. An apple TV and with the home pod tack. It could also be functional all the time. You can talk to it. You don't need to even hold up, the the Siri remote and talk into it. You can just talk and the speaker will hear you and control your TV or play music or do whatever. So that's kinda my pitch for the home pod. I mean, I think the homepage should be cheaper like bottom line. I think the home I think home pots, not bad. I think the problem with a home pod. And I feel like as I look at my ipod. Hi fi. That's right here. I think it's the same story which is people say like, oh, well, the ipod. Hi fi. That was really bad product wasn't a bad product. It was a misguided product. That was overpriced and kind of oversold for what it was. But it's a perfectly fine speaker, the home pods poem is good and two of them is kind of great. But the the prices just completely out of wack so with the rest of the market, and and so, you know, barring a sound bar. I would say I just think that the home pot should be cheaper like and that they should sell it. And they. I should really aggressively sell it in a bundle make the bundle of two of them cheaper. Because everybody, I know who's gotten to home pods has said, oh, yeah. It's so much better. Now like in a stereo pair on different sides of a room, and it fills the room in like it goes from being a curiosity to being like the go-to music player in the house, but that's three fifty times to no it's too expensive. So my feeling is like the the products. Okay. They put they hang a screen on it or something. But at that point, it's basically like an ipad attached to a speaker. I'm not sure there's. I don't know. Sure. That's great. So my my feeling is price and and a sound bar. What about you? I never thought of sound ball. I think that's really cool. I would like that law. My my thinking was saying that you were that like they should just make the current one. Maybe a bit more affordable before they worry about building a second one. But that sound bar. I d of integrated apple TV is a genuine product right that could exist without them needing to touch. The current one is got enough new cool about it. I like that. Jason. I would like that. I find it frustrating. I have to remember to change my audio outputs to the home pod for my apple TV because I have the two we have them kind of in a position that it's nice right too. Like around the television where you have money aside of sofa. So it's perfect for us for watching TV through the apple TV, but it never seems to like walk to it. Like it's have to keep remembering to to turn to change the audio output. And if it was a device like a sound bar is more in tune to actually doing what it's supposed to do. And that's where the sounds going to naturally come from with the apple TV's Bill into it too. I would like that product. What? Sound button? A terrible name. Home pod TV. They go found. Thanks so much to insta- bug fresh books and lunar display support of this week's episode. You can find Jason online at the incomparable dot com and six college dot com. He's also at j Snell on Twitter and Instagram. I am at I'm Mike. I m y que e you could find the show many shows reload FM slash shows, tons of great content there for you to feast Yuri is on. That's not a phrase this. Yeah. Cool air feast faced if you'd like to send in questions for the show. Hashtag snow talk for something fun to open with. If you have any questions you'd like to hear us on at the end of the show. Hashtag ask upgrade we can into some good detail about those. Thank you so much listening to episode two hundred thirty three of up grade, and we'll be back next week until then segues snow good-bye everybody could by Mike early. Jason snow bump bump up. John. Didn't do any research Mark going wrong. Wrong show. Every podcast should end with Jonathan Mann playing the banjo.

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