#ICYMI - Womens Boxing, with World Champion Alicia Ashley
Helps star talk win a webby award boat now at star talk radio dot net slash web. He's. I'm Gary Riley up. Nice. It's he's playing with. We had the privilege of speaking of boxing legend Sugar Ray, Leonard, which was such a pleasure and a big deal for the plan with science family. So it's only right to share the stage with the women because some seriously heavy hitters for you, and Astro physicist and a professional boxer. Yes. At Frederica Bianco, golden gloves hall of Famer and world champion a leash. Ashley and boxer trainer entrepreneur and relentless pissed and founder of boxing and barbells one and only carry Williams so round one Chuck who's I in the ring right now, we get to speak to boxing's bad ass. That's right. We're talking professional boxer and astrophysicists Frederica Bianco. How are you? I'm good. You bring the world of boxing and astrophysics together. What a perfect it's like you were made for playing with science, right? It really does sound like much may have really does. So let me ask you. You know? When you look at the cosmos, and you look at you look at the ring are there any areas of boxing and astrophysics that overlap in such a way where the to inform one another or that, they're very similar. No, I mean hired to say that they will be very similar course Dame for each other. For me. Both of them have to do a lot with like, my confidence and my self awareness, and my ability to like sort of analyze things, and I learned from one in from the other, and I bring back and forth the experience of one and the other in the boxing ring. My my name any name is the mad scientist. So wish I could say that I'm like really in analytical and scientific boxer non at hard. I'm really really a brawler. But did the skill in the sports is that of like staying calm? And I don't know. So that's fair. Frederica is correct. You were dancer as well. As a martial artists before you became a boxer. I was I was not in the sense that I was not a professional dancer, but that's how I started. Yes. Night half to the ring came through dancing, and then Caparo which is sort of it then since tire martial art. And then boxing, you knew Alicia actually was once a dancer. Oh, yes. And and and when we spoke with Sugar Ray, Leonard he talked about the choreography he talked about how is adults and it's. Silence. And that actually is really a keep on that people might not think it might not come through as we are aware that in the ring. But at least as far as I myself, but I know that stools released like you also want to think about it as a performance. Right. Absolutely. So now that you said that since its performance, and it requires a great deal of concentration. It would seem like boxing, just take so much concentration. Almost to the point where you've got to have tunnel vision and block out so many other things. And since it's a performance. So does being scientists give you an edge in terms of that concentration since like the scientific disciplines requires so much concentration and kind of just training your thoughts in one direction. Would you would you would you say that's the case or have you ever thought about it? So I think no, I think about the things the law, really. But I think that the tendency and the training in problem solving is helps me sort of thinking about martial arts in that way. So that perhaps were a little more clearly in the training than what you're actually I think because when you fighting don't get me wrong. Like, it is like a puzzle that you're trying to solve right? How do I take advantage of the things they upon my parent? He's in to get an edge. It might not be Agios. When one is fighting because he's looks like very chaotic from the outside. But as you said, you really need to be sharply. Focused and on the inside. It is like service surprisingly calm plays. I've heard it from some other boxers describing how things sort of happened in flow motion, whether fighting, and you kind of have very part of you is kind of like very unethical in Kalman cold observing. What is happening which is? Of course, not what it looks like when you're you know, you have somebody who's trying to take your head off. Luke brings I say when I was reading before we get to speak today, you describe yourself, and I love this as a student of life and say that you see boxing as a mind clearing experience. You can have to explain that more. Please. Right. So just what I said about the fact that it's all about being collected and called inspire on the chaos around. You. Imaginative in that sense. Very nice. Yeah. So let me ask you. This was it. I mean for women, boxers, which I see the boxing has really grown in popularity because of the training, and the workout. So every seems like every Jim now has has a boxing workout that that they offer. But you need so much more than that. When you're training for a fight and steel sharpens steel, so how do you find your sharpener in a sport where there's not that many participants let the very good point? So when I started boxing in California was in Santa Barbara, and there were far fewer opportunities with women in Barbara. So it was regularly starring with guys, and you know, there's there's advantages to that guys tend to be faster their punches and to be a little bit more stinging. So that kind of gives you an edge. But also there's these advantages because they're sort of the level of intensity and the competition is a little bit different given there is already like a well known and our knowledge difference in the mind, the people that are aspiring in New York. It's it's kind of a blessing that there are many women. So, you know, I'm Lisa because I started sparring with her when she was getting ready for a fight. We all know each other. We all Spar with each other. You very often end up fighting people that you certainly know and that sometimes they you have sparred with of course, they're only as good as you know, as as you can be one as the people that train. Really, right. You just it's not in individuals for this in spite of what it looks like it's very much a team sport and your training partner. Your sparring partners are very much part of the team interesting. So what would you say to anyone not just women? But. Anybody who's interested in boxing that might inspire them to try it? So I think. As you said, it's getting more and more popular because of the fitness that is involved. It is a tremendous fitness exercise, it really tops on a lot of things like sort of, you know, a lot of parts of your body are involved. So it's a very healthy exerciser like pull your entire physiology. There's a lot of courage to you. And also there is the aspect of the focus which makes it more intriguing than just doing physical exercises as far as boxing competitively or how getting in the ring everybody, you know, you people that train boxing should try because in my experience is the feeling about it is very different than one expects it to be. And it goes both way. I've heard people say like, you know, I'm sharing login just for training and be like, no because I want to become a professional boxer. So I see my trajectory like three years I want to be professional and getting punched in the face. I realized how big mistake that was that. They did not. And all have anything to do with that. But at the same time people that do not think of themselves as fighters that do not think of themselves as a recipe or competitive in that way, really he's in. That's not the feeling that you have inside the ring. So it has a very different feeling from the inside reminded from the outside. And I've seen people that never thought they would like just fall in love first bunch. I mean, I must ask you for Rekha. Just how tough is it in the women's boxing sane because it's it's nowhere near on par with the men's side of the sport. So how tough is it for the business side, everything all of it? So well, let's say it's getting better. But he begins with you'll get a find a trainer that wants to train you. So somebody that believes that women Campbell's. The everybody believes that women can should box. Also is a bit of an all school for and so not every trainer is even considering training woman. And then if you wanna talk seriously like if you have rations of becoming professional, it's as you head find the trainer that is really selfless because it's not a lot of money. So it's not like they're going to make a living out of a woman box that it's just right now, it's not happening. So you had to find the trainer that does it because they love and because they like you and. Once you pass that in something. That obviously people ask me. But the Rouge would ask you to any woman. Professional boxer is how do you do two jobs because near all women professional boxers also have a job, generally, it's not astro-physics but make no mistakes. Very few women can sustain themselves we've boxing, and if they do that they sustain themselves with boxing by also train other people at such and the two jobs is not the problem. The problem is the third job that must be to do of finding themselves fights overpaid opportunities and traveling for spurring and finding in just a nervous about the letter study takes to get contracts and just be sort of. Be taken seriously that is third job. And that's the hardest. One of them is it as is it quite simple just to say, the solution would be if there were more money in the sport. I don't think we need more women to get paid better. Sure. Yes. So if there was if there was a big purse for for instance, if there was more money on offer for the fighters, then the trainers would get more money than you probably get better train. Is it simple as that? Or is it more? Is it more nuanced? No, I think it's more new us. I think you know, it kinda like goes back to women's Ford altogether. There is a in perception that that's not something that people want to see the level of the performance. And I think that perception is in my experience is largely wronged people. You know, there's not a lot of fights on TV. But the women that are now there are many more fight on TV than before. And those fights are watched with high ratings. But also every time you go to show like, you know, as mall club show in queens, or whatever. And there's a women fight. You all the time. The women fight was the most interesting about of. Night because currently may be because it's so hard to get to the point where you finally have a fight. They are now going to phone in. You're just like your heart in it. Because it's a hard way up. So so that might be part of the reason, but women fights are always entertaining. They're always like. You know, going down ho and just really working hard at that. So now, you know, so female fighters in MMA, they seem to have become a lot more popular. What is it about? Do you think MMA that makes the female fighters so much more popular in MMA? No, it's just the fact the exposure. I mean, I mean Dana want has started. I'll say like no women women a number. If I remind in the they just just not going to do that. And then he changed his mind to women on cards. The company fights watched people like them. He put more women on Kurds made a business decision that just worked. I think it would work for boxing and business were the starting to see that right, obviously Clarissa is televised. More televise every every fight. But there are many other fighters that get some less, but some exposure. All the recruits from the the first Olympic canes with women from it's changing anything is actually change him for few not for sort of like the bulk of women, boxers. Hopefully, it's just a matter of time crew. So it's just a matter of exposure how long because some some of the some of the women have been waiting awhile. Now, if you think about a leashes age, which I won't mention because she will punch my lights out, but she she had to wait a while for for things to come away. I mean, how long do you think and every time she needs to get a fight? It's you know, it's hard to get a five and she's late longtime in between fights she never fought in Jamaica, which is her hometown. And I know that that was a really big desire of hers. So I don't know how long and I think you know, there's all the restore a bubble. There were bubbles of women boxing in the past Christie Marteen later, the Sierras was one of my. Key people in the whole white word, and then the bubble bursts and women were law boxing on TV for another fifteen years. So hopefully, this is not a bubble. But it's hard to say a longs. Frederica? Thank you so much for being our guest away. I have one more coins. One more. I got. All right. One more time. Let's do it. Here. We go. You're an astrophysicist what planet would you love to fight on and what planet which you hate to fight on. Oh, okay. I really don't wanna fight on Venus 'cause it's hot up there. Doesn't fighting in in sauna doesn't sound good at all. How about Sachin we can have between ring particles all the particles that make during and just you know, have one fight on each one of them. It's a different kind of ring right on. That's right. Now about that for a little bit of logic from monitoring to another Frederica began coach thank you so much for being August on playing with. Thank you so much the Astro physicist. Who is also a professional boxer. Yeah. That's that's just quite a combination. We are going to take a break next up Kerry Williams. The boxer the train the Olympic level trainer. Entrepreneur and philanthropist. Yeah. That's going to be another great interview. And of course, forget we have a leash Ashley coming up as well. Stick around with. Okay. Let's face. It star talk is never going to be nominated for an Academy Award. But when it comes to the internet who cares about the Oscars. It's all about the webbie's baby. And guess what star talk has been nominated for a web e in the best science and education podcast category. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Please hold your applause until we actually win. Speaking of which the web is our the people's voice, which means you gotta go vote people. Just go to start talk radio dot net slash webbie's to vote for star talk to win best science education podcasts now through April eighteenth. We couldn't do what we do. Without you our fans, and we certainly can't win our first webby. If you don't go vote. Remember, go to star talk radio dot net slash webbie's to vote. I can hear it now. And the webby goes to Chuck nice. I mean star talk. Yeah. That's it starts off wins the webby. That's that's what I'm talking about. Welcome back to playing with science. He's been speaking to Frederica being co astrophysicist and professional books. Now, it's time to take a slightly different turn into the world of women's boxing. This is Kerry Williams this time, former Olympic Starbucks Olympic level, boxing, coach boxing club, bona, cover model speaker entrepreneur for them to past and behind boxing barbells, and the brand never to pretty and never to pretty movement. Hashtag never to pretty movement so lady with no much time in hands. Yeah. Windy, you sleep. Larry my goodness. What are you just take a cat nap between the hours of six and six thirty logical? All right power naps. I have to ask you. Well, personally attracted you to the world of boxing. Well, it kind of backwards story when I got out of college actually have environmental science degree. So yeah. But I grow up. I was always an entrepreneur, you know, saying mistletoe door to door whenever I didn't want to work for the government. I did it for the year out of college. And this isn't for me. I can't sit in a cubicle. I wanna own my own business. And I wasn't sure what that was going to be and I had a friend in high school, and he was professional boxer. And he would always tell me. Oh, you know, I go to the boxing gym. But there's no treadmills there's no weights, and then people will try to come into the boxing gym to work out or just pushed away because you either came in there to be a fighter or you to train. So I thought well, there's no gyms out. There were the average person walk off the street, and just you boxing, workout. But really learn boxing like legitimately learning. So I said I'm going to open a gym. And. Yeah. And back then the internet really wasn't like it is now this was twenty years ago. And so I went and bought a book called business plan for dummies, and I wrote a business plan, and I went to a Bank, and I got a small loan. I got an SPA loan. That's a long story but opened for sponsorship in nineteen ninety eight. And so I had never boxed before I actually was not even into fitness. I was terrible. If you know I hated piggy. And was not an athlete. I was more academic girl. The straight a girl the scholar not release Galler. But we I was smart. And so that's what I'll started a. Let me just take a second. I gotta gotta rewind this tape just back to a little bit and go right back to the statement. I sold mistletoe door to door. Okay. Because by the way, I tried that. And people just said get outta here. You're. They'll be a reason for that. Chuck. What those on it baby. That's it could be. But no seriously. I read a couple reviews about ill. And here's what they pretty much all said. This woman is awesome. She doesn't teach you how to get into shape. She just teaches you to box and getting into shape is the result. Is that is that just your philosophy is that? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Obviously, I'm passionate about this. Or it's my love and respect the sport entirely. So into somebody comes to say, oh, I just wanna lose weight or I just wanna get shave. And I heard boxing's a great way to do it. You're gonna learn how to fight whether you seven the viewing or you don't it doesn't matter. You're gonna learn the same way train off my fighters. So that is my philosophy at training while that's really cool. That's really I must ask you sort of poacher gun gamekeeper seeing how different is it from being the fighter to being the trainer. Well. You know, being a fighter is I was a trainer before I was a fighter. So again, it's pretty backwards. So I the gym busy I needed to help on the floor. So I became a coach. And then after that I thought was kind of hypocritical to be a coach and never stepped in the boxing ring. And you know, I can't be hitting print. So then I started to compete now stepping into the ring was little easier for me as far as the nerves because being outside of the ring and having a fighter in the rain. You get very nervous for that athletes. And so a lot of that was taken away from me. So I stepped in the ring I wasn't as nervous and being in the ring is when you do it over and over again, it's like being in a slow motion movie. Like, you're in a movie everything is slow down. Joe countries coming at you. They look they appear to becoming slowly. So that you can react the naked eye outside. The ring is looking and going. Wow, that's really fast. But you're seeing it like. And that was quite an experience it's very strategic obviously to rain chance in the ring coaching outside of the ring is super rewarding. I find coaching more rewarding than than competing because competing for me coaching is for somebody else. And being able to do something for somebody in change somebody's life in a really positive way that I mean, you can't put money on by the way, I see punches coming in slow motion, but they land anyway and ends up. It ends up being shot where the guy's cheek collapses under the fist, and then the blood spurts get. Yeah. You know that shot. Yeah. That's the money shot. Okay. Let's go. Let's go back to the slow motion Peckham power movie boxing. Oh, you know. I will train your mind cause icon can't for one second. These things are slow, right? It's it's just not. I can't get my head. But you must be training your mind to facilitate how you kind of distort the time to slow these down. You know, what I think it comes from controlling your adrenalin and show you doing something repetitively over and over again. And then you're in that situation that fighting situation in your face. You verse, you know, when you're first training your starring inviting your yard a lot of adrenaline right from his trying to crap at you. Doing it over and over. Again, you start to learn how to control that into. Now, you're not just very anxious nervous. It's more of a relaxed thing. And so for some reason it slows everything down like inertia, maybe so it's very interesting. That's pretty why isn't it? That's pretty wild. So what was the hardest thing? What what for you is the hardest that Specht of boxing. You said you started to coach first and then went into the ring yourself. But what was what is for? You the hardest aspect as a fighter as a coach. He's rule bows. Z as a fighter the hardest thing for me, those two things one is I don't like to get hit. The other thing is that. The training is so hard for competition. I don't like running and you have to do a lot of running conditioning. I don't mind sprints. But I don't like the the conditioning of the longer runs. So. Yeah, I don't I didn't really like that part of it. I love the part of being in the ring and being strategic. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna faint I'm gonna make them do this. And then I'm going to counter this that was really enjoyable to me, coaching wise does not a lot that. I don't like about it because I'm in control of it. So if it's repetitive in its competition. Then it's always rewarding to see them. Do something gazillion times than they finally get it a, but I mean as far as coaching can't really say that there's anything I don't like about it. Will you talk about stamina and training and that endurance? Are there any other things that you can do aside from running for instance? I have terrible knees. I can't run at all. What if I've not speaking as a fighter just picking a layperson of regular person? What if I wanted to build up stamina what else could I do other than running at which puts pounding or your knees? I would say probably getting in the pool and doing sprint work in the pool. You know, other than that. That's right work has to happen. I've never honestly tried it with somebody who has had such issues to where they couldn't do the work. But I would I would rather that you know, 'cause they're fighters. Like, I don't know that get in the ring there. Just like, listen, my knees are shot. So I'm just saying, oh, Chuck you'll find any excuse. I mean, we always say like a fighter with excuses, not really fighter, you know. So and I have a similar saying I have a similar saying and that saying, I'm not really a fighter. That works out. Hey, so listen, you're you to all this other stuff. I mean, and before we started the show here. I was talking to you about something that I saw in line about you. And it's called the weight loss show, which I thought was just incredible now full disclosure. I didn't get a chance to look into it the way I wanted to. And so I thought you had had a baby because you. You had all these great like shots of you beforehand, and you're like all cut up and look great, and like super fit, and then all of a sudden, you were like, overweight and out of shape. And there you were and they were all of a sudden like fifth again. So what was that weight loss? So what was that all about L is called fit to bat fit and the permits of the show on lifetime? I think it's on Amazon or Netflix now, but the premise is that you gained much weight as you as a trainer as a trainer inventory. Did you can't have or months, and then lose all of that weight for months now, the reason to do that was that you were to have a friend or family member who needed to lose a lot of weight. And so the idea was that you kind of step into their shoes. So that you can understand what it's like to work out and lose weight and the challenges that you face as an overweight person. So that's why did the show. It took a lot of coercing for them to get me on the show because I really did not want to get wait. But it's funny when I did gain away people thought I was pregnant, but they wouldn't say anything because they were like, but then after I lost. They're like, oh my God. I thought you were pregnant all time. So. I'm one of those idiots. Yes. There you go. I that's exactly what I did. So let me ask you. So now, you're a little bit more empathetic to people who have gained weight, and you've had the experience like documented, psychologically. Okay. Because I think a lot of weight loss is psychological, so psychologically, what's the best. Vice you can give to somebody who's struggling right now to like, I wanna look better. I wanna feel better. And I can't seem to do it. It is all mental strike, no matter who it is how much weight you need to lose wearables are. It is all in your head. So in till you get your mind, right? You will never ever get your body. Right. Damn body. Your mind wrong. No, it's really just mental really really is. And you have to set at in your head. It's like, you know, when they say when you hit rock bottom. And all of a sudden, you're boom, I'm going to do it a going to deter me you have to get to that point. And you have to be strong, and you have to have will power, obviously. But all those things it's just in your head, and you have to just do it. And I know it's like well. Oh, we'll isn't there easier way. Is there a trick is in there? Some magic fairy dust I put on me in. It's gonna help me figure it out. There's really not it is if you really want it, then you do it. So I mean, that's what I got out of the whole thing. You can what can you do? I my friend who who is a really close friend of mine. She had a lot of way to lose. We worked on her losing the way and she lost a lot of away. But there were I mean, the show's all about drama, right? I mean, there was some drama throughout that process. Because there were so many times where she was just well, I really wanted or you know. Oh, well, and then she would have an excuse us. Why she couldn't get to the gym? So it's really you have to be dedicated to what you want. It's your life. Right. If that's your goal, then you have to make those struggles vices to get their amazing. How many times on this show that same thing just keeps coming up from all these athletes everybody we talked to Gary was a professional footballer. And you know, it just seems like this is just the theme that just runs through every single thing that has to do with with what sports and fitness. Again doesn't change now on your head. Well, there's plenty of room up there in mind. I must staus Q. Why? Wii the sort of box is the boxing regime exercise program. So attractive to women. Well, I truly believe that it's because it's impounding. I mean, it is a lot of very fearful to to come to like when I opened my first boxing gym twenty years ago. It was open to everybody. But it was still mostly men that were coming in. And it was really a challenge to get those women to take that step in very scared of it. Oh, people are just hitting each other. You know, there's this idea that you know, when even to watch boxing, people go there, just hitting each other. It's brutal. They don't see the the beauty behind the or know they don't see the science on this or they don't see all of that. They just see two people in their hitting each other. So it was challenging at first to get women in. And now, you know, as we started coming into this or then we get more media coverage in and then women go. Oh, wait, she can do it. You know, they look at somebody who might be petites or or whatever very feminine they go. Wow. She's in there and she's bad ass in. I wanna be that. And so it really helps to bring more women into the sport. And then once they taste it forget about it. You know? That's it. You know, they're bee's. Like, it's it's a superpower makes you feel really strong as a person in general, it makes you feel -ccomplish d-. And that's why I truly believe in teaching the sport not just as workout because for sure Bill -ccomplish, you do a great workout. But how much more complex you feel when you actually learn how to throw proper punch you learn how to slip shot you learn a combination that's realistic to the game. So it is super rewarding. Before we go, and we will be going shortly. I'm sorry to say your philanthropy work. How does that come about? And does that still have its roots in boxing? Well, kind of does man used to have a nonprofit north where we work with a lot of youngsters in the boxing road. Of course, a lot of kids who couldn't afford training, traveling Spence's for tournaments that sort of thing. Now, I have a the two pretty ban. We have a nonprofit also. So it's female empowerment branch who is really kind of bringing those girls into themselves. They go I'm girl, but I can do anything. I want to do I'm not I'm not in this gender box. So to speak. So I work with that. It's it's a movement more so than it is anything else in. It's really just kind of a message to send to the young girls. You know as far as more flood. I mean, I've done a lot of it up. -solutely I didn't knocking out abusively tour in the country and work with medical students for a whole month teaching him boxing. So I have done a lot of that right now, it's more. So just kind of being that person that's on social media than courage in the young girls in the women to do whatever they wanna do regardless of what gender they are. That is cool. Yeah. And I think the more people that take that baton and run with it the better, and it's a fabulous message. And I think the people we've been speaking on this show exactly the kind of people that they can look up to and the work. You're doing will Ma-maybe increase those numbers, and you know, the world of boxing will find people come out of your classes or classes like that an actually pick up the gloves and step into the ring for real. Yes. Absolutely. It's a beautiful sport. That's the sweet science. There you go. So we're gonna take another break. Thank you to the wonderful carry Williams. An insight into another stream the world of boxing now. Coming up next a Welsh champion and golden gloves hall of Famer, none of the militia actually, I'm going away. I see. Joining us. Now is the leash Ashley WBZ female world super bantamweight champion. And this this blows me away the youngest of chess grandmaster, MAURICE, Ashley and former world kickboxing champion, Devon, Ashley. You're a multinational holder when it comes to boxing. So we'll take focus and bring it onto you world champion still what drew you they'll world's happier. A world champion baby. You gotta love it. Come on feels good. When like, okay, I have a friend. His name is Judah Friedlander. He is a comedian. And he wears a hat that says world champion on it and his whole thing people and people used to say when he was on stage. Like, what are you the world champion, maybe be like everything? You I'm I'm one or two things one or two things right on things. More than me. You came to the sport of professional boxing relatively late. But what dress you into the ring? What was it for you? It wasn't that. I was drawn into the ring. It was that. I I kinda needed something to do. I was a professional dancer that was Michael when my brothers were doing martial-arts, I was dancing. So when I got injured, and I couldn't dance anymore. My brother's finally was able to get me into the sport of a karate. So. I really had no interest in boxing. I just kind of fell into the sport. So now, it's funny because you say dancing, and then boxing, but the to do have some connective tissue show is definite correlation because it's funny when people see me, boxing, they say like a move like a dancer because there's a lot of moving that ends up being my style. I'm more of a boxer than puncher. Because of that, you know, that's always argument between the two types of pugilist is the brawler and the boxer and the boxer is the is the person who's light on their feet. They're up on their toes. They're using the ring they're using the perimeters of the ring they're creating positioning with their with their body and making their opponent kind of position themselves put themselves out of position and the brawlers the brawlers. Before. And and I love fighting brawlers because they come at you. Right. And that's the whole reason they will do all the work for you. And you just a disaster. Make sure you can hit them before they get to you. Now, you touched on strategies, and you thinking science using an opponent's momentum and there's losses toward you. As what they think is an asset. And you're running it round to make the disadvantage an asset for you. So I'm thinking that brother is a grand chessmaster that is all strategy. Your other brother, the kickboxer which one taught you the most. Well, it's funny because Devon and his last name is actually Cormac story rejoice for that. Don't turn it back on me. If I don't correct. The he's the one that actually got me into the sports. He got he will tell you also that he taught Morita play chess. Oh, this blame the fame. His he got us bowed into our perspective sports. So I'm gonna say that Devon is actually the one that has been most implants on me. But I also learned chess sydell that in a make strategy that is the angel bottom oxen to so how much of that chess strategy do bring to your book Zing in the middle of find. I think for me, it's a majority of my sites always thinking move ahead. Follow to get them in a certain position. So that I can, you know, punch them or or if they adjust I should be just that, you know, ahead of that. And we'll means like I got really placed in position, you might think you got there on your own. But it's really. I. That is a chess match to say, the least socially martial arts thing. The the biggest day of deception to allow you to go for something you think is there. And then the way it's not. Exactly, exactly. This is why this natives won't champion of definitely. So in your in your training, I'm interested because these things do interest me was your training old school hard now. Skipping rope. Or did you employ new techniques new technology? Are you one of those people that embraces the new? I hate weight training. Eight. Did it a little bit? But the thing is that even though I don't look like getting older. My body was telling me that I was I had the problems from dance. I started getting in boxing, which were toward is ahead torn minutes. Fist in. Now. I have it in both knees so much reigning actually head to change because of that. There was no more running. So I had a find a different way to get my stamina going. So what did you? Wealth things like burpee. I hate burpee you hate weights. Raining. I don't know how you do burp. I hate burp cut. The fact that a matter is it actually were was the best thing for me. And I hate saying that, but it isn't entire body workout, and it had helped me especially my last night. Last night was the a March at age fifty. And the one thing that I can say is that I had the conditioning to go more than the ten rounds. Wanna let's talk about conditioning. Yeah. Because that seems to be the kryptonite for most boxers that should win. But don't win. They lose their legs. How do you know that you're properly conditioned for a fight? And what do you have to do to get to that place? I think it's also to full the fact of the matter is a lot of them are trying to lose weight before the fight instead of a ready being in our on Wade's weeks before the fight. So if you are perpetually going up down in weight when it's time for you to fight and you'll have to worry more about losing weight than focusing on the fight than that's a major problem so maintaining I maintain my condition, even when I'm not fighting. So most of the times, I'm only three or four pounds over the weight that I find it. So after that is just fits working on condition the entire time. So that's background is don't token there. That's that. I see the conditioning physically of doing routines doing everything that you need to do to keep yourself in that shape. Then facilitates doing the same as books. But you can have the best condition in the world. But if you don't really feel like that day, it ain't happening. So how do you condition your mind to be able to take your body to the places it needs to go? Wow. That's a great question. The funny thing is that my mind is always there. Yes, you can not. You're not always in the fights. And that's the hardest part of it. But an essay that as dancer, you know, the show must go on. So you still have to work past that? And I always consider my five not as vice but performances. Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah. By the way, because because I'm the principal dancer. Everyone is watching over all eyes are always on you. And let me take this opportunity to say to all the dancers who are out there listening or not that dancers are some of the greatest athletes that you will ever encounter period. I agree. So that, you know, not because you'll hear that. Anyway, this this improper dancers, the ones the ones that can't even box. We gotta give it to them to federal. Yeah. Can. I don't wanna find out if they just know they can oh what what would you say your biggest challenge has been over the course of your professional career. Has been hard to maintain that same level of? I'll say interest in the sport. Because. Yes, a lot of times I do not feel like training, and the older that I get is harder to maintain that that same desire, especially because I know that I don't have the train as much to get the same out of it. Cool can't doing for my training. Now, it's like I have to purpose when I was younger. I didn't is just like train as much as one to fight comes along. But now is warped focuses in is on winner. You getting me a fight when am I fighting neck? So that has been hard to maintain that same sort of a desire to fight while that's funny. The trajectory of your training has been the exact same path as the trajectory of my partying. So when do do have you said a date when you've said, that's me out. Or are you just going to do your thing? Let let go go think think this. Them me ended up in China kinda is pushing me on that. 'cause I wouldn't have taken this job. If I still had so many buys the thing about it that I wanted me to stay in the game. I need at least three fights in the year. The last three years I've just been fighting once a year, and that's not enough to sustain me understand that. It's like, okay, I'm slowly weaning myself out of this fort in being on the other side, which I have been a trainer for the last fifteen years. But now, it's a kind of just forcing me out of where are you looking for your boxes dance? Gold all in gym. Now, they come to me, they come to the gym makes sense. Let me ask you this. You're a champion a world champion five times. Anybody who wants to be a champion? What is it that you have to do to be a champion? What is the championship stuff? What is it? I don't really think it's psychology as a lot of people want to do del the, oh, but you know, as a lot of work, but you can put someone in the ring, and they're like, oh after the first, you know hitter. So I'll coming back, and then, you know, a lot of people think that just winning makes you that winner doesn't it's win you lose. That's where you know. How much that person wanted are how much how strong of a fighter they would be if they can get back up and go back, and so I don't play so much emphasis on winning a put more on you being able to turn around and come back after you've lost well or read great just remembered something and correct me if this quote is wrong, but you are asked to give advice to any up and coming female, Boca on your advice was don't get hit is that correct? Well, I mean, that's a big part of it. Now, the second part of this question is have you managed to take your own advice? Looking at you say you did pretty well. I definitely managed to keep that a vice. And the thing is still out say this. I've never been not down in all the years that I've been biting never been not been knocked out. I've had losses and I'm happy with that. Because it makes me the person that I am because I can come back around. That's when I came back in it again, if we. Aides though the losses detained. Winds will be so you and I have something in common. I've never been knocked down my fights either. Because you can't knock down somebody is running away from you knew you're going to do that. Just new shrimp them. Don't worry. At least you can be out to catch him may for that matter leash. We have got to the end of this interview. And we are thrilled that we had the chance to spend some time with us. Thank you so much. Actually. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. So there you have it on boxing special with three very very interesting women boxes different sort of approaches the philanthropist the entrepreneur in Cary Williams. The astrophysicist who clears her mind by boxing that really is something. And of course, the one the only undisputed champion of the world Alicia. Ashley, it's been a fabulous fabulous show. A hope you've enjoyed as much as Chuck, and I did and we look forward to your company very very soon. So that's it from time assigns until. Hey starts fans now that the show's over please remember to go and vote for star talk to win the webby for the best science education podcast. You can go to star talk radio dot net slash webbie's to vote right now.