223: The truth about metabolism | Cate Shanahan, M.D.
Welcome to the MY BUDDY GREENE. Podcast objects in walkup founder. And cosio of my buddy green and your host. Today's episode is brought to you by my buddy green and our incredible museum plus sleep product before this product. It took me hours to get to sleep and end up tossing turning than hitting the snooze on the alarm as woke up in the morning. Yes I slept but it really wasn't quality now with magnesium plus I fall asleep faster I stay sleep and I wake up rejuvenated and without an alarm clock. Look we all know when you don't sleep. It's pretty brutal. And it is terrible for your immunity in terrible for your health and yeah I slept but it wasn't quality sleep and now I never knew that sleeve could be so good. I hope you check out our pioneering sleep formula at my green dot com slash museum. That's buddy green dot com slash museum. So Dr K Ahan is a board certified family physician and the author of deep nutrition and her latest must read is called the fat burn fix boost energy and hunger and lose weight by using body fat for fuel. It sounds awesome to me cade trained in biochemistry genetics at Cornell before attending the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School and served as the director of the L. A. Lakers nutrition program for six years as a basketball fan. I am very excited about the Lakers. So Kate Welcome. Thanks so much for having me on your show Jason. So there's so many interesting concepts in your book and the the first one that stuck out to me is your view on fat and you talk about toxic body fats and healthy body fat and so many people say oh body. That's bad but there's a difference so let's talk about toxic body fat versus healthy body fat. Yes the most important at aspect of health is whether or not you can burn your body fat for fuel and healthy body fat. Is there for you to use as a fuel and in fact your cells do better when you are burning your body fat? Then they do. When you're burning the the calories from whatever it was that you just ate and the reason for that is if you think about nature is pretty smart and what we build body fat from is the extra whatever in our food and it's not just fat from our food that ends up in our body fat. It's extra any big so if we eat too much car too much protein if we too much of anything it's going to end up in our body fat and the body fat that we build is designed so intelligently to be the best fuel like we don't just build random fat there's very specific recipe for building healthy human body fat and has to do with the type of fatty acid if you heard the term saturated versus monounsaturated versus polyunsaturated so there is a specific ratio that our body does well with of Saturated monounsaturated and polyunsaturated. And that's what our body. What's in our body fat? It's building our body fat from the extra calories in our food. So how do we know if the body fat you know? The body fat I have on me is healthy or toxic. The best way to now is through an assessment of how you feel when you're hungry so this is actually really an important metabolic click Whether or not you can burn out for fuel like I said is the number one most important determinate of Health Longevity Performance of inflammation status. It is the number one most important thing and your body is actually. If you just know how to listen to it your body may have been telling you that your metabolism is holding you back specifically inflammation and it talks to you by way of how you feel and one of the key things to pay attention to is. How do you feel when you've gone longer than you? Normally do without eating anything in other words like. Let's say you normally have a some kind of breakfast at seven. Am and normally have lunch at noon. And you didn't get your lunch. You're too busy now. It's too. Are you starting to feel hanger? E R us. You know that feeling of of irritable hungry angry when they call angry hungry angry and are used to kill brain fog. There's actually eleven very common symptoms of not ways that your body's trying to warn you that you're not able to burn your body fat for fuel and when you feel any of these eleven symptoms. It means you're not burning your body fat for fuel very efficiently. You don't have a healthy efficient metabolism that can easily flip from whatever the calories were in your breakfast burning those up for fuel to burning your body fat. That's why you have body fat. It's it's not just supposed to be like this challenge of you know. Let's keep that body fat down. Let's make sure it's on all the right places it's there for energy. It produces all kinds of chemicals that help naturally regulate your body weight your energy level your mood your hormones your immune system and when it's healthy all those things are working properly and when it's not the first sign is that when you've gone longer than your normal without eating your you'll feel good that's one of the most important science how you feel so ever couple couple follow up questions one you talk about extending time between meals and knock getting angry or brain. Fog is intermittent fasting the test so to speak and playing without extending fast periods. To See if I feel okay I can do this. That is one way to test it absolutely actually book the fat fix what. I was at a have like a little worksheet that you can use for week to test and see how often raise snacking and howdy. How often do you feel just in the course of a normal week? Because I don't WanNA necessarily have. People Dabble with intermittent fasting if their metabolism is not healthy enough to do that and and that is a thing that happens that you can actually try to go on. an internist intermittent fasting routine and But not be ready for it and you won't get the benefits If you're not ready for it you can. Actually you can actually feel worse or you can actually do some damage wrote so you mentioned Healthy Metabolism. And something else you said. The book which I thought was very interesting is we tend to say fast metabolism a lot but you say no healthy metabolism is flexible enough fast. So can you elaborate on that by a flexible? I'm referring to the ability to flip back and forth between burning calories from whatever you just ate. And then burning your body fat. So that it's a seamless transition so that if you eat something and whether or not your next meal comes along in three hours or three days your body fat as fuel you we do get to a point after a certain number of hours or days without eating anything where we're not doing ourselves any good but most people don't have to worry about that because most people at most will skip a meal right. That's kind of the most common way of doing what we're calling now. Intermittent fasting. When I grew up it was called. Didn't eat lunch. It wasn't a big thing and and I mean I'm I'm making light of it like as if this new thing now. Intermittent fasting is a thing. But it's it is because so few people are actually able to seamlessly. Move from burning the calories in their last meal to burning their body fat anymore. Because we do have this problem of widespread of toxic body fat. It's a metabolic problem and it goes by a bunch of other names. Include so toxic body found at the highest level to understand if we have it. It's it's largely about the feeling it is there. I'm curious like I'm the guy who gets you know. Blood Testing quarterly. Have Twenty eight miles of blood. I I've talked about the PODCAST. I had like ridiculously high homeless. Osteen at one time. It was interesting that none of other markers were pretty. Much more elevated. My homocysteine was sixty. Three I see that when people burn their protein for fuel more so than they should be doing so I got to twelve freight that's important and so so wait up jury so protein for fueled talk about that. 'cause 'cause you also talk about having too much protein so I'm curious what do you what's the most part in this idea. That too much protein can be a problem because a lot of people. Don't think that right so yeah too. Much of anything is going to turn into body fat. Okay so we can't. There's no carte blanche with any kind of a any of the three macro so it's not like you need a car. Be Wants me. He can eat all the fat. And it's certainly not like you can eat all the protein one So anything in consumed in excess has to be stored body fat and And when you are eating too much protein you're consuming a lot of a molecule called nitrogen In Adam and nitrogenous very reacted with oxygen and so it promotes when you have so much of it. Your your liver has to deal with too much nitrogen. Your kidney has to deal with too much nitrogen and can promote something called oxidative stress and inflammation and so Glutathione gets consumed when that happened. Glutathione is one of the bodies most important antioxidant fighting cofactors and The body makes it. And when your need for inflammation fighting enzymes exceeds your ability to keep up with glutathione demand in the many many other many components necessary to control inflammation than your home assisting level goes up it's a reflection of uncontrollable inflammation and that can be caused by excessive protein especially protein powders and it almost always happens in the setting of eating the wrong kinds of fats in having unhealthy body fat. That is making you More often and making you You kind of live on the edge of eating too much and not eating enough. Because you're not able to use your body fat smooth all out interesting. I actually the way I got it down a frank by doctor and he got me in a cocktail vitamins immediately and I actually started to eat. Something happened for me. I'm forty five in my forties. Where the more meat I ate. My Lipid profile started to go the wrong way and so I also cut down the amount of animal protein. I was eating so those two things and went down in the teens pretty quickly and I have. Mta Jeff are all about so yeah. A lot of people doing the lean and clean. Get into the same exact problem because lean lean meats very high protein. So you're you can end up eating thirty percent of your calories from protein which is difficult especially in the setting of not getting enough of the right kinds of fats. So yes so pulling back on that doubly can make some things Function better I mentioned. Ice Got started on. Homocysteine rang. 'cause I mentioned I get all those labs and so with regards of what we can. Come back to me after the show genetic Weirdo that way. Most people don't have sky high esteem so with regards to labs and having the wrong body. Fat like ardor labs like is it just about feeling. Are there specific markers if someone wants to do? Bloodwork that call outs that? Maybe something wrong. Definitely there's a whole host of them and I do go over all of that in the book but just kind of give you some examples. One of them is the ratio of your checklists right number two your HDL number If you're traveling all right is more than two. And a half times your. Hdl and shield just to refresh. People's memories is the so called good cholesterol It's very often an indicator that your body fat is not accepting shipments of new fat kristoff. So the triglycerides stay in your bloodstream. Too Long and that's what elevates your rights and that you have so much inflammatory processes going on there. Hdl drops your body can't control of some of the things that keep hd levels high which are like location reactions. Those little few can't control location which is a form of oxidation and than your hdl level drops if you can't Control Lipid Oxidation. Which is another form of oxidation than your HDL. Drops so that ratio is is very important indicator so ideal ratio if you said over two and a half is no good where do you want it to be for triglycerides? Hdl while ideally be one or more HDL triglycerides splinter. Many people get when they follow the The Diet that is totally free of these these bad oils. That are the source of your toxic body fat and I WanNa make sure that we cover that you are definitely not a fan of vegetable oils. You're definitely not a fan of vegetable oils right now. I I think vegetable oils are the number one cause of health problems in this country. And I think it's It's a tragedy that Harvard is still recommending them. So can you just run through them for everyone quickly like in terms of levels of of of damage if you will for sure? So there's there's I call it the hateful eight eight of them. They're one easy Monica's there's three season three S.'s. So corn can look cottonseed. Soy's sunflower staff lower and then the other two Grapeseed and Race Brand. And those last two you'll see more commonly used in restaurants. The first six are are often used in restaurants but most common in a super comment health food stores. I mean it's it's also shameful that whole foods and other health food stores use these things in their products that they label healthy people think they're healthy because they're organic so you touched on the macro so protein fat carb and we talked about having you know potentially too much protein which begs the question. How much is enough and in your opinion like what are the best sources of protein? I know we're all individuals varies but it Kinda so protein is the goldilocks Macro Nutrient Ghost Important one in most fussy one should say like there's a just right zone but it's zone you know it's not a big zone as somewhere between twelve percent and thirty percent depending on what else you're doing So but that's a range. It's like a factor of two So it would be somewhere between Say like of fifty grams to maybe a high of a hundred twenty. But it's super variable depending on your lean mass your height But it's not gonNA range too much beyond that fifty and one hundred twenty. You can do pretty well with one hundred twenty. Don't necessarily need more even if you are six. Seven of yes. That's not many guessing. Many of our listeners have my height but I always appreciate getting advice just for me. Yeah I you I heard you earlier. Podcast we're basketball player up so yeah so that's protein is like the most important macro nutrient to to pay attention to make sure you're getting enough but not too much and I always recommend getting protein from whole foods and avoiding protein. Powders as much as possible in there if you're curious about why but that's an important message that I want People who hear this to understand that Protein powders are not the same as food body processes them very differently especially if we have that raw kind of body fat and have too much polyunsaturated. Cedar Hills in our in our diets. So what are your favorite sources of of protein? I'm curious what your favorite Vegetarians. Sources as. Well so my vagrant vegetarian sources would be really anything. That's high in protein to deliver a good solid wall it without raising blood. Sugar too quickly. And that's it like I don't I'm not I'm not telling people that they need to You know peel their their grapes and a tomatoes and stuff like that to avoid the lessons in the skin. That is that. Is You know something that maybe a tiny fraction of one percent of the population by actually need because maybe they lack some enzyme. After having some antibiotic but human beings come into this world with healthy immune systems needing to to do such micromanagement of the things that we eat. The world around us is filled with natural food and we've cultivated a lot of it to make sure that it has the amount of toxic know that we can handle. We create toxins when we cook food right. So it's not like we'll ever live in a toxin three world so create toxins. They do so that we don't eat them so our beans. Okay refried beans. In your opinion. It depends on factor. They're Frieden so I'll tell you. What would we do? A lot in our in our cove nineteen court eighteen. So my wife calling an IRA family. What we do a lot of lately we do our take tortillas with some refried beans and in the Pan we use our primal kitchen avocado oil spray and we put a little like organic Jack Cheese and we have like are being cheese Caissoti as we do that a lot and then we also do a lot of like wild salmon with like some veggies or call fire right so so you tell me how are we. How are we doing? You have to check the container so does not refried beans. I'm assuming they're coming out on. Canterbury make from an Arab Cup comes over cat. Organic refried beans Joss chat because some of them don't have any added fat and some of them do and chances are if they do. It's not going to be the traditional Lard. Because people are terrified and wrongly so of of it these days so if there is any fat it's probably going to be one of the wrong oils so so check but they do make a fat free form. So I'd recommend those instead. You have the fat-free beans because you're not gonna find the traditional fat. You're not gonNA find him in Lard unless you actually go to Mexico. Maybe it's yeah. It's more expensive to use so fewer and fewer people even in traditional Mexican areas like Mexico. you're gonNA find fewer fewer where they actually use the traditional fat. It's it's now just going to be. It's basically think of it as filler. Right. It is nearly free and it acts as a preservative and it helps fill you up literally so why not add it if you're an evil manufacturer and all you care about? Is your bottom line. Interesting I've fat free 'cause you're also fit will segue to fat so I if we don't really talk about fat free law for most part it's were over that as a society but for beans not the case for it well for every food we have to consider what is the nature of the fat. Whether we're talking about enes are salad dressing. So what are your favorite like in terms of you know. We're not demonizing fat. But there's a difference. The healthy fats healthy fats. Like what are your? What are your favorite healthiest fats. So the there is no such thing. Nature does not make an unhealthy fat. We do in our factory so so if we're talking about fat that is on a whole food. It's good so whether that's beans themselves. Do a little bit of fat any other seed fruit Like a coconut or avocado or eggs. Cheese dairy fat Animal fat. That's natural fat. Nature makes that stuff and human beings have been consuming it since probably since there were human beings herbs at least since we discovered and cultivated some of these High fat things like beans and nuts. The so that's all good and then so then the really the only other question becomes okay. Well I cook stuff. In what way add with an added fat? What kind of added finest safe and those are the traditional added fats which are very close to whole foods right so butter for example. That is too simple steps away from milk. One you let the cream rise to the top. That's step one. Step to your turn it for a while in like a wooden chair right. We don't do that anymore. But that's how simple it is. You don't need high heat. You don't need complicated equipment. You don't need refining machinery. You just let the cream rises to the top skimming off. And then he start turning around and many make butter so it's very close to a whole food all of oil. You start with Plump Green Olives and you run a very heavy stone over. This is how it's done traditionally thousand years ago before we had factories and the Oil squirts out you collected all and it's dark green and full of sediment in it which is full of nutrition which came from the olive pulp loaded with antioxidants loaded with minerals That's good stuff and the same with any traditional fat coconut oil. That's traditional. That's because it's so easy to get the fat from a high fat through like a coconut also. Fruit Avocados are also very easy to get the oil from those things That when you talk about peanuts that is An oil that it's like there is a good version of it in an oak cave version of it and it has to do with how deeply it's been processed it's analogous to olive oil. Really like we know I press extra virgin olive oil. That's the better stuff and eventually there's a quality of olive oil that so bad it's called laminate because we didn't eat it. I think it was called. It's called that because we put it lamps and burned. It was good for fuel but it wasn't good consume and so there's you can do that with fat from anything you can. You can get every last drop out of the original product in such a way that you're damaging it and then you need to refine it and when you refine it you strip away. All of the beneficial nutrients antioxidants vitamins minerals. You've made it like it's empty calories but you also probably pretty toxins in the process. So that's why my hateful eight are in The Hague? So you mentioned peanuts leads me to ask about nut butters. I was pleasantly surprised in your book that you know you were okay with peanut butter. Which makes me in a lot of people listening. Probably very happy so you are. You aren't of all that butters is that the case. I'm a fan of food yet. Good foods toxic stuff that we're too stupid to recognize right. I love the code. I'm a fan of food. Nature doesn't make to nature does try to trick US sometimes. But it's really just for its own protection so that we don't overeat right and we're not that dumb that we're going to over we're going to overeat stuff that is literally toxic and we're going to haul over debt. We have this very important. Oregon cod liver. An animal. Animal livers are capable of dealing with a certain amount of toxins. The herb of workers are exposed to all kinds of toxins from the plants. They eat hundred percent of the time How is it that Koalas can handle eucalyptus a no other animals can because the eucalyptus like oil and Turpentine toxins in there because the Koala has enzymes in its digestive tract and liver? That break it down. Will we have enzymes in our liver? We have actually bigger livers than most other than most carnivores because we do so much cooking and cooking creates toxins. That didn't exist whether you're eating animal food or a plant food so we covered protein. We covered fats. What about carbs? What are what are the healthiest CARBS EATING? Near opinion that healthiest carps are those also that are closer to the whole food and those that like nature makes right and that's because when nature makes them they're in a delivery system that is not like main lining sugar so for example. Let's go back to a beam So beans are in a matrix of protein fat and fiber like the carbohydrate in beans are is in a matrix of those other three components and so it just takes time for our digestive enzymes to get in there and break down the carbohydrates. So it's not going to spike or blush so far mentioned blood sugar. I'll go to sugar quick. I think that's one thing that everyone can agree on. Is You know sugar not so good but I think the question is like look. Sugar is is part of life. It's fun to have dessert every once in a while so curious like how much sugar is okay and our favorite sources of when you do decide to have a nice treat Yeah sure I think the best form of sugar is fruit and I actually use fruit as like a think of. I like to encourage people. Think of it sort of is a spice where it's going to spice up something that you're eating for example. A salad like. Let's say you've got kids? Who aren't big fans of spinach ruble or whatever your? Greens are but they love blueberries. Well throw some blueberries in your salad along with some carrots and some other stuff and you know if you WANNA have a desert. I don't think it's beneficial relate to use these artificial sweeteners. Let's just not You know loaded up on sugar all the time. Because the artificial sweeteners have been shown to disorder your appetite systems in your head which is one of the four fat-burning systems they talk about in the fabrics. Book is the Relation Center in our head and if we separate sweet taste from energy the way the artificial sweeteners do that is confusing to our brain. It's like sweet. Tasted come along with a lot of energy and if you use artificial sweetener that's calorie free. Their sweet taste. But there's no energy and it just can use the brain so you hydrate energy. You mentioned before five Burns systems which you cover in the book when what are those four systems the I'll give them to you. In order of simplicity so the simplest of all is the might contract. That's where all the calories that you'd never burned in your light get burned inside your cells. The energy factories of yourself a produce this thing called. Atp Energy That's system one system. Two is the hormones that regulate your energy balance regularly what your body does with carbohydrate for example what it does with that whether it's GonNa put in storage or whether it's going to take it out of storage The third is your body fat itself. Your Body. Fat. Isn't organ it. We don't think about it like we think about our livers or kidneys. Like how healthy is are those organs. How healthy is our while? We also have very important question right now. The most important one because so many people the answer is no. It's not healthy is how healthy is your body fat. Because your body fat is supposed to be Providing your cells with energy and it also all these hormones and these hormones that it creates give you energy or make you tired and hungry and when your body fat is unhealthy you have low energy and you feel tired and hungry all the time. Because that's your body fat saying they're slink. Almost no energy in here that your body wants to use because the fat itself is toxic as a very bad state to be in when your body fat you have it you want you need to burn it if you WANNA lose weight You just need to burn it to get through your day but it damages your cells. That's aw that's what it damages fabra system one. That's what I mean by toxic body fat that you're it's fat that you can't get energy from efficiently without damaging yourself and so just to finish the fourth is your appetite regulation centers in your brain which are the things that control your cravings and You know we talk about sugar being addictive substance. That's where that addiction happens. And the fat hormones that your fat cells may are constantly trying to talk to your brain and when you have inflammation in your brains from too much of these fish oils that your brain can't see the body fat. It's like your brain thinks restarting you look in the mirror and you see body fat. Your brain has no way of seeing what you're seeing it does is get information from the hormones and when the appetite centers are inflamed which they will be. If you've been eating the seed oils then. You can't see that the rain can't see has no Nonni of all this energy in your body fats. Let's go hungry entire all the time she does the pig we come back to. Hungary tire those the two big accuse. Something's off so tired so one thing you know I love. It seems like there are lots of health benefits to drinking coffee and so. I drink coffee. I just love I love the taste of coffee have espresso on the morning of a cup of black coffee. I'll have coffee later in the afternoon. Mike question to you is how much is too much. And what is it a problem like you talk about like tired like we all so much of us like reach for that coffee in the afternoon Maybe it's partly habit. Maybe it's partly so I'm just really tired. And what's what's healthy in your opinion to the onto cops. You're always relying on caffeine and you're not really You can get to a point where you need it. More than I think is healthy I also Recently it was very disturbed to discover that caffeine reduces the blood flow to your brain which isn't cool because I like my brain to have plenty of blood but caffeine reduces that and You know it's totally counterintuitive. How it make you feel more alert. Actually reducing the energy flow of nutrients And Fuel and oxygen to your brain. And that's a you know. Finish fascinating question. I think the answer is that it reduces the blood flow to the brain areas. That are extremists baked. You're concentrating on something. It makes that be the only thing you're paying attention to. Which if you're in a good mood makes it more fascinating so to cops. But do I get a Third Cup since I'm six seven? Yeah we should probably portion. You're talk about the portion of your cups. Like how big are they big? I'll give myself a third cup so hurt you. I mean it's not like it's it's what I put that limit out there. It's more about your relationship with stuff than what it's going to do to your body even your brain blood flow question because this is an N. of one but my dad has been like the perfect petri dish of what happens when you consuming extraordinary amounts of coffee He is I seventy eight. I think now he's got one kidney 'cause he donated the other to my brother ten or more years ago he still working. He does cross it every day. He walks or bikes tour at seventy eight and He's I have never seen drink water. I think he owned hotz his. He has to measure his coffee in pots. Not Cups. So I know you're based in Florida's you have abundant vitamin D. But that's something. You're also fat of Vitamin D. Absolutely I mean. It's a vitamin right. One of the few things that I learned in medical school that was true. Nutrition wise was had. Vitamins are good for you. And of course didn't learn the right amount of vitamin D Reich is the RDA. Vitamin D is somewhere around. Four hundred in that. So overdue for updating. Because I don't I don't I mean that was just based on averages and may back when it was actually determined generations ago now people got enough sunlight but we don't anymore and I Went through a period where I was testing everybody When I lived in Hawaii believe it or not and and most people were low less. They were surfers and even a few of them were low or unless they were supplementing healthy level of vitamin D and European. So there's a good data to say that you need more than thirty with lab value cuts off at thirty I feel like Let's try to think about what people used to get. Which was probably if you get your skin if you're wearing a bikini or bathing suit in twenty minutes in the summer Can make twenty thousand units international units of Vitamin D. So you know you're not going to probably do that every single day because you'd get a somber If you're fair skinned but You know something. Close to twenty thousand units once a week which translates to at least two four thousand. A day only gives you. I've tested enough to know this. A level of the low thirties. So I maybe fifty is good but I'm not some says you have to get it up to ninety data. They're so How would you summarize your food philosophy in Near opinion like what what does work for most people. How should we all be eating? So that was actually the entire subject of our first book called deep nutrition while your genes needs traditional food. Which Kinda spoiler alert genes need traditional food? And that's my philosophy. We should feed our genes. What they expect they bald on and we in this country we talk about nutrition as if we just invented it like you know that we talk about the science of nursing humans as if it's something that We still need more data on is that we have no data as if we have no data available to us from anything other than these recent studies in the RDA and randomized controlled trials. And that is the biggest lie nutrition science. We have tons of data on what people used to eat in the form of cookbooks and just traditional cuisine so that is a humongous body of nutritional knowledge that Really nobody is talking about. And that's why my husband and I wanted to identify whatever there might be in common with all traditional cuisines around the world because that's what our genes need. That's what they evolved to expect so we did identify that. And there's four of them and that's what deep nutrition is all about real food and there's four four elements of real food that are super important for optimal health. Could you talk through those four? Very quickly absolutely. The first is fresh food so things that have been cooked fermented and sprouted. So if you have too much fresh you got to preserve the rest later by new information or things that are self preserving lake seeds. They should be sprouted. I to optimize their nutrition and the third pillar is meat on the bone so this is including not just the lean meats leaning clean not good too with the fat that comes with the animal you also need to include the skin and the joint materials huge thing for the Lakers and huge breakthrough in their healing and recovery processes to get gelatinous material. And then the fork. Which is something that we've come so far away from it like we just roll our eyes. Even which is organ meats. We don't eat or the meats in this country and we are way less nurse than we would be if we did and I'm talking about You know all animal parts. We used to eat them all if you look at any book published before nineteen hundred. You're going to see recipes for every part of the animal literally knows detail including like weird things like the Asakusa so there's nutrition in all of that and we don't get it. So you mentioned working with the Lakers and Opinion I played basketball in college and I love basketball and I think that professional basketball players are the best athletes in the world. It's amazing what they're able to do an up curious in working with them like what's the what's diet of a professional athlete at the highest level. And how did you approach that so before I got there? The diet was your typical sports. Nutrition dietician recommendation which was really kind of law of skinless boneless white meat chicken brown rice and steamed Broccoli with some kind of fake butter on it if anything in no salt now. That's not what they did. But because their idea of healthy food is so alike a limited and so unpleasant to consume they were addicted to all kinds of horrible fast foods and Junk Foods Candy. You know any kind of dessert. Any kind of try and deep fried anything. So that's what it was. We got there and by the time that when we implemented our program they came to understand a lot more about what healthy food actually really isn't how delicious it is. One of their favorite things was seuss made with his bone stock from you know the pillar on meat on the bone That when you have that gelatinous bone stock in there just makes it so rich and you can have any kind of animal fat. You candidate kind of plant fat. You can have any kind of spice or anything to make it taste. Good and with chef at the Lakers facility was so talented that people would they would start their career. Maybe with the Lakers and then they would go somewhere else. They came back. They would come back in they said. Oh my God I love. This food is so much better than anywhere else. I've been because we're just getting back to route our roots. This is traditional food. This is how good food is supposed to be. And it's supposed to be fantastic because he use all the parts that are available to you. Don't throw away most flavorful. Things like we do right now. Few likes bone broth. Yes I love your skin your hair nails and in addition to your joints enter gut. And so I be remiss not to ask With his passing what will was Kobe. Bryant like what was it like working with heaven. And how did he? How did he eat? He was very direct very respectful very much. The leader if he believed in something he wanted everyone else to know what it was and He he. He was pretty sophisticated in his philosophy. He said that he didn't believe that any diet that wasn't good for your overall health could be good for your performance which is pretty profound right. Because we've got nutritionists. Were arguing that you need to eat. More sugar than I think is healthy. Because if you're an athlete you just need to feel with sugar. Forget they have body fat and in? Kobe didn't buy into that nonsense. So I you know. We haven't talked about covert at all and we aren't Kovin world and we're not going to go down the cove in Robert Hall but one thing I am. I've been curious about lately. Is You were becoming very sanitize world? So you know hand sanitizers the cost of living if you will and traveling and we of need to do it but there's definitely a consensus that it's not good for the skin bio so like what. How do we can't Iraq that that's the one thing we're doing this damage? We've gotTa have to do it when we travel and so forth so like how do you? How do you can rock the damage to the skin on your opinion with all the Senate like we're in the sanitize world? Yeah I think the whole approach needs to be looked at from a different perspective of is it really wise to forever try to live like the boy in the plastic bubble. A you remember that. Remember that movie in. He didn't have an immune system. Didn't have like whatever white blood cells so he lived his whole life without any good microbes and we know we're trying to be exposed trying to avoid the nature which is dirty And you know the approach that we're taking with this. Is that anti nature boy in the plastic bubble approach which I think you know if I if I were in charge of the world here I would have done it this way. I would have protected only the most vulnerable and I would have protected them most aggressively but I think to try to prevent a pro trying to prevent the common. Kohl's is that really smart. Is that something? That's sustainable. The answer's no and so to answer your question about what's going to happen with this endless Jesus's hand sanitizers. I think a lot of people with skin rashes. We're GONNA see a lot of people with weird skin infections even potentially from overuse of these weird chemicals that are killing off the good on our skin it. What can you do about it? Well if you insist on using the hand sanitizer if your employer does I would prefer actually that you wash with soap instead of regular so just because you're not going to at least be selecting for pathogens that can survive whatever chemicals in the hand sanitizer. Soak physically destroys the path. All you know everything equally right so it's not like selecting out for anything that could be more aggressive in burrow into your skin and caused serious infections like you know the series kind of staph and strep that people can get but and then Putting a moisturizer on your hands to at least foster a moisturizer with real traditional hats actually the moisturizers can foster the development of good bacteria and This scientists not really been. It's not something I'm an expert in there's probably dermatologists who a lot more about it than I do. But I it traditionally a lot of hot high sun intensive cultures did use skin creams complex. Ones like they would have certain kinds of clay certain kinds of fat in there and my belief is that it fostered the development of healthy bacteria because in these tropical climates. You get cut. It's so worm you could. You could have the worst kinds of weird organisms growing in that cutting. It gets sick really quick so they were without knowing anything about germs and microbes. They probably had figured out that. You healed faster when you use certain things on your skin so if you have to use hand sanitizer you definitely. WanNa use moisturizer your hands look for some who say fats in likes it. Like good healthy moisturizer. If you will I would still say to avoid the hateful. Eight in your moisturizers oils. So unlike a coconut oil is a traditional Actually in tropical climates they would ferment coconut oil in the Sun for certain defined amount of time And then use it as a hand sanitizer so that tells me that they were. Fostering some healthy bacteria in there are not handsome Kaiser. I'm sorry as a skin lotion. So by last question it's it's May twenty twenty What do you think we're GONNA be talking about a year from now like what's really interesting to you. In terms of attrition science or like where the world is going you know where. Where do you think we're GONNA be talking about a year from now? Well I'll just give you what I think we should do if we're smart. We if we know what's good for us we should take this whole corona virus As an opportunity to understand that our modern diet is the reason. This virus was so scary. It wasn't scary because older folks were getting pneumonias in nursing homes and dying from it because that happens every single year from the flu. That's why we invented flu vaccines and flew antivirals. So that heart even though it's not you know it's horrible if it's your grandparents they're dying of this but it's not the scary part that's that's part of life. Death is part of Life Infectious Disease Healing Older folks. That is part of how you know. It's they used to call it and this is going to sound terrible but this is the way the world used to be. It used to be more much sure about death as part of life and death at the end of life as an okay thing if that person was ready for it and so they used to call pneumonia the widows friend because it was. It's hard to live alone. You know when you're eighty five ninety In the day right in nursing homes so it was very often. That was how elderly women who die was from pneumonia and every year. The flu kills tens of thousands of elderly Americans and in fact way more than this corona viruses killed And and so. That's why I'm saying it's not scary because it's happens every year. What's been scary is that the virus seems to take out young people in you know. We talked for a while about well. These people have underlying health conditions yet. They have an unhealthy metabolism. And at but what made it really scared was every once in a while we'd be like will this person didn't have diabetes or any underlying conditions and it still took them out. It's a really bad virus. That's not what happened. What happened. Was that person who was labeled healthy. Had undiagnosed prediabetes fatty liver or other metabolic disease because the vast vast majority of prediabetes in fighting liver is undiagnosed in this country because doctors. Don't you know have a lot to offer for it? So we don't really screen for it so in your opinion like if we live Ellen listening wants to look for those things. Are there specific labs or tasks we should get to know if like someone listening may say like well like I think I'm pretty healthy but maybe not like how do I really know beyond the Hungry or tired so we already talked about the HDL tranquil strive ratio. That's very very important. If you're glycerine are much over one hundred certainly over one. Hundred and fifty. You may have a problem if your HDL is under fifty or the ratio is off. You know it's not two point five or higher And then If you're fasting blood sugars are consistently over ninety if your average blood sugar as measured by your elected. Mclovin is in the pre diabetic range. Which so you're glaciated Mclovin usually should be five point six or or lower that's a A number that diabetics and pre diabetics follow to see how well they're controlling their blood sugars. another is is your blood pressure normal is your blood pressure is higher than one. Twenty five over seventy five on a consistent basis you have a mild or very much higher than that more severe metabolic problem and it all comes down to the health of your body fat because in today's world and I haven't said this yet but you know these these these hateful ABC toils. They're not a minor component of a person's diet. Unless you're you know purposefully unless you're aware of them and you're avoiding purpose. They are at least eighty percent of your fat calories. And so if you're having half of your calories from fat these things are at least thirty. Thirty five percent of your total calories. That's a massive amount. We don't consume any other toxin in anywhere close to that quantity. And so that's why. This is the most important health marker whether or not your body fat is healthy because these the seed oils have something called polyunsaturated fatty acids they build up in your body fight over time. That's why your body becomes toxic because it has a high percentage of the polyunsaturated fatty acids from seed oils. That's why you're buying fat. Works against you. That's why metabolism goes down the wrong direction. And if it were not precede rails. I don't care about any of the other drug foods. If it were not pursue this corona virus would not be as serious as it is we would not have all this underlying conditions because the seed oils aren't 'cause the main cause the most powerful cause of these underlying conditions while we also need to shutdown that markets where people eat bats. It's it look it so it's horrific. It's sad there's devastation with people. Losing Lives People Losing Livelihood Z. CanNot like it's just sal around and it's it's it's complicated and I do think we would all agree that There there will be a focus again. Hopefully on you're really trying to take care of oneself so that we can build up our immunity and hopefully it gets hoping that's the silver lining. Yes I think that that is a silver lining. So we'RE GONNA start to get a little bit more real because for most of my career. Some people just didn't care if they were diabetic. Because they're like yeah but I'm fine. Take my meds I I don't care it's just you know it's so it's going to increase my risk of stroke. You know in ten twenty years it was a theoretical thing but this now makes it real in terms of staying alive flu season because I think it we're seeing we're coming understand that these infectious diseases hick off people who are not healthy. And that if you WANNA be able to live your life without having to be hospitalized for a month intensive care unit next time one of these things comes around then maybe let's let's take a good look at your diet and get yourself away from the judge received mostly in junk food. So if you go on any diet and stop that that gets you away from the deep fried stuff at restaurants all the junky muffins and stuff that you buy from Bay Grease and drive throughs and stuff like that. I I include that Junk Food and candy. You know if you get away from that kind of fake look extended shelf life food than that's like eighty percent. It sure it's in your salad dressings. You Might WanNa consider having something other than a salad. If you don't make it sil- addressing just put butter on steamed vegetables Sure is also in Mayo right so if you go to a restaurant that where you wanna get a sandwich. You'RE GONNA use their mayhem. You'RE GONNA get that bad stuff in there but But it's not as bad as the deep fried. It's not as bad as like that Muffin or the donut or the ships that are fried in the usual bad hatefully So my my last question will be on the fun light side. What is your favorite vegetable fun question? I'd say I'd say to be the onion because it's in every cuisine You can have it raw. You can cook with it and when you cook with it it helps de Blazer Pan so it helps if you cook meat first and then you add onions needed like the Brown stuff from me. You can D- glaze it with onion and a flat win spoon It it goes good with me with vegetables. You can caramelized. It makes Sugata as almost nothing. It can't do. Wow I love. It will close their the the underrated basketball kate. Thank you so much for all that you do and congrats on the FAB earn fix. Everyone needs to pick it up. It is a fascinating read. Congratulations thank you so much and it was fun talking to you.