Is Operation Moonshot back?
You can subscribe to the spectator for twelve weeks for only twelve pounds for print and online editions. Plus get six months of digital access. Free to the telegraph goto. Spectator dakota uk ford slash telegraph. Welcome to coffee. Shuts spectators daily politics. Podcast i'm john. Connolly joined today by katie bells and james is now today it's announced that liverpool will be one of the first stages of the moonshot program with everyone in the city offered regular tested to root out the corona virus cases to sauce off. What difference do you think this will make. The hope is that mass testing is the way to returning to some form of sustainable normality. And i think everyone's gone a little bit tired or skeptical of hearing things like this test will be like a pregnancy test home because we did hit a prime minister. Say that very very early on into the pandemic. But i think i think we mentioned this. Focus that over the past few weeks. That is genuine. Optimism and government mass rapid testing not has previously even describes operation moonshot. I suspect that we will not necessarily hear that phrase From some in government talking about news because operation moonshot became bit of a laughing stock. Now matt hancock thinks talks about it but i think because we've had so much Promise of good news. Perhaps not the delivering. I think there is some in government and number ten. He wanted us to be that. It wants to be seen as an extension of the thing that didn't happen before but what we have is the first pilot in the pool and testing ultimately the whole city. And the idea is you can keep track of it if you have rapid testing u. two degree. Get rid of some of the tracing seven so testing and performing well enough well if you have people and we had to point this. The bulk of people dame tasks back when thatched human is tricks becomes. That's complicated to do so. So it eases the whole system in that sense. And i think if you're trying to really optimistic there in seven government had hoped that potentially you could get to the second of december and then have enough depending on things being approved mass test to try and police the infection. That way going on now. I think they're still various ifs in this but we know from early on that testing is really key to keeping track of the virus and i think that there are lots of different types of tests a comment to the overall number tests. That people never put together all the same task. But i think if you see in the pilot and unlivable some are has been quite badly hit by this. They would get control in where they haven't previously that. I think that gives a lot of hope for a way of living with this virus. Whether or not we get a vaccine. Personally i think even though we're hearing lots of acne plans to roll up vaccines. I think that there are significant number of senior figures in government. He think testing is more likely to be the solution. The biggest part of the solution then a vaccine. They hope vaccine welcome. But this is probably the one which you can see the root. You're not just hoping that phase free goes on james. Do you think it's sort of realistic to liverpool ski mobile to scaled up to be nationwide at some points. So i mean the big criticism all this government actually having pretty much the same christmas. Vr government all. The french government is this. Second lockdown is very tactical strategic is all about the tactics of hospital capacity. But what's the strategy. What's your exit strategy for getting out of this current situation and mass testing. Would clearly if you could skate it up literally do the job because one of the big problems with as far as is that most people have it our eighth to matic so they are wondering around in fact young people without realizing one of the four of us sitting here today could be we all right. Pretty socially distanced so hopefully it wouldn't matter and we mobilized the room but the point is that it's very hard to break the chains of transmission if you don't if people aren't presenting symptoms varies impact in the hope. Is that this. These mass tasks would enable you to to break the chain those people then go off and so now. I thought those a freudian slip by boris johnson. Yesterday when he said the only criticism i would accept and then he cracked himself. Not i mean one of the questions is about this problem of people not self isolating. Even that told you buy doesn't try so the big question is whether liverpool you've task you get told opposed. Will people go and sit on the two weeks and contains themselves out of the transmission game now. The government says as passage hoffman. Test of that moment. It's not doing. Is i was like frosty. If you could get up to understand that the we'd get up to a million by the year once you got to two million tests. Today you can test. All of the petition wants a month. A with you. I think this is going to join me on argument that would enable you to break these chains of transmission and therefore control the virus that way but the one of course here is. We've seen lots of hopes of rapid technological solutions to the problem of ours it turns out that inventing of endemic is inherently difficult. But he wanted to interesting about. This is the alternatives trashy this lockdown with tango longer the tron north push the auto parts number of cases right down because one of the difference is one of the things that has may concentrating more successful in terms of and places like that is an hong kong is they got a number of cases right down and so it was much easier to contact. Well as if you look at common feature of the european moment is there are so many cases still overwhelms any attempt to contact tracing. I also think. I mean we're very much. Turn the hypotheticals but does daughter success and you can see how a demon but too i think. When you're talking to industry bodies say music industry six cetera. Mass rapid testing away to you could still in their view. Having events vivian. a craft lodged people again Do you think at some point. The government is going to need to give more So when you mentioned compliance. That james i was just wondering do you think the government perhaps needs give more financial support people who've been told to self isolates and then not showing symptoms for example. They have put some put in place. I think some people argue that is the issue. Interestingly some of the people involved in the nfl jess think that the length of time is actually the bigger problem. The even if you are financially compensated people just two weeks at home is a stretch for anybody. I so i think the other questions. If you have more tasks could you test people to aid as for example one test eight days one test that ten days if you test negative both times you're free to go the other questions enforcement. We carney have large. We break rules yourself. Icy interestingly in If you look in south korea they use mobile phones taiwan. He's a a. Gps enabled apps on your phone download. When your self. I say that basically says johnny left housing shouldn't have done. Now somebody will. You can't accept our civil liberties ground. i'm personally unpersuaded. What the differences between the app on your phone on a massive fine if you leave your house. Apart from the effectiveness of the two measures in news. Last night there was a terrorist attack in vienna which left four dead and seventeen. People believe me wounded manhunts as currently underway for the suspects james. This follows tears attacks overseas in france. Following macron's about political islam do think this is showing that it's spreading from beyond france and schools becoming over. You apply problem. Yes if you look at the gunman who was shot by australian police all signs of terrorist. He had been sentenced to twenty three months. Four traveled to syria to join islamic state. Yet here's now released on back out on the street and he gives it fast say clearly not reformed he clearly is still a jihadist with murderous intent on. I think i think this is going to raise this whole question of. What do you deal with. People who tried either succeeded or trying to go and join islamic state launch of european citizens. Who did that. What do you do about the problem of these people were either because this person had been to prison out again and he's clearly still afraid to as demonstrated to people austria. So how you deal with this issue. I mean this is going to become a bigger and bigger question in europe at the same time. You have a minute look therapy. Thirty eight jarvis attacks in france in two years and he is known from taking a more are he is trying to the program off that you need to combat the ideology of extremism fervor upstream to keep the country safe and that is obviously crazy clamp a clash of people's own. You're eighty people in process or not. I think there's a lot to be said for the macro argument. Because i think i personally think that you did. Extremism works on a spectrum. Right only nagorny as a problem when it becomes von and means that you'll never actually deal with the issue. Because you know. Be able to catch everyone. I know you have to deal with the grievance culture behind it i i think what is particularly challenging moment for europe his visit all societies already for because of lockdown restrictions. I think if if we were to see an upsurge in jihadist at this particular moment i think it will be very challenging since as autism. Bill i think that one of the concerns that particular in france is the country is backing knocked down. The more vs events now would be particularly difficult on the national psyche. And when you next hey. From his own coffeehouse shorts that will perhaps be a new. Us president the election taking place. The day on the result expected later this evening or into the early hours of the morning. Katie how do you think portions in. The uk will be sort of wondering about the result tonight. I think there's an interesting one. That's been in the discourse suggesting a number tannin. Boris johnson hated with biden's again it's democrat and they have much more coming in with trump. I think that is an entirely correct. I didn't he. The cancer is easiest ally full dining straight. I think both prison issues. Igt lacking assumption amongst most in government. Is that joe. Biden will win. Adding some ministers goes far. Think he'll win big but when it comes to what it means for the u k. I think there's challenges in both stages. I think that if is expected in. Joe biden does win. I think that's interesting in terms of trade for one. I mean we talk a lot about this. Uk us trade deal. I think it looks less likely regardless of who wins to be something immediately by teasing your joe biden win specific date. There's just this general sense that it is going to be nowhere near the top of joe biden's agenda and there is some government. He thinks the most likely way we'd actually trade with joe biden would be the trans-pacific partnership where americans join but this is all going to be very slow movements and it's actually quite interesting in a sense that we have the agricultural going free commons this week and that is giving more rights to farmers and spin row behind the scenes about what was seen as a protectionist best the free market is there are many tories all giving being a few rebellions and giving more rights or protections to the farming industry. So i think there has been a bit victory on side but the sense. I guess that's in part because people say well biden is going to win anyway. So why are we fighting about something. Which in large be quite inconsequential actually relate to those. Even coming up the track. I think what donald trump to win it and it would be a shock result. I think that that does present some issues. I think that would be. I think the topic and the issue. Us uk trade deal becoming more potent again and he was dot see divides forming in the tory party. We know this splits and captain and that's something to look out for but also i think that is complicated. Food this government. Because we know there's plenty of things. Disposable say that donald trump and versions disagree on and things like nato and iran deal. I think that would get you know very difficult. You see how why. Donald trump would be reinvigorated to push his opposition to these things and james. We've been talking a lot about the possibility of the facts that for example donald trump might be declared the winner then mail in ballots. Come in that. Joe biden is then sort of declared the winner one seoul counted. Could that put the uk and a bit of a tricky sticky diplomatic situation. Do you think your issues from declare himself. We'll be declared the were. No i mean i think we look the results. There's obviously the because of the nature of the selection. The election run in the us with the responsibility of states. Not the federal government. There's always the possibility of difficult. We have a piece of by and magazine when maher based what the uk government should do if you end up in another bush. V gore or even more acrimonious than bush or two thousand cells that jason with trump kind of refusing to accept defeat. One thing i would say tonight is personally. I'm planning to get up early. Robin and stay up late but if you all staying up late watch carolina if north carolina is will count relatively rapidly accounts. His mailing votes early overslept and north carolina. But it goes for joe biden. Joe biden has a huge number of route. Ciccio hundred and seventy is highly likely for example if north carolina goes biden. But i didn't come become president without either pennsylvania or so what's north carolina early on fought gets time. Do we get north carolina. I might have no carolina as early as kind of one e to eight So if you're watching evanger. Neil tells you on the bbc bot that the bbc are calling north carolina for joe biden. Then i think that means that it is almost us on. The trae biden will be the next president united states if north carolina is very close. Then i think that we are in for a longer more drawn out process. The one thing i would say about bisexual marches. Everyone in the. Us is once twice shy. And therefore the evidence of people who are very reluctant to to the polls as is making this sunday dinner. I was listening to to meet the press and enlisting to the us political. Pundit talks reminded me of everyone here in twenty nine hundred which everyone and see what the evidence the polls are saying everyone can bought. Because all the unrest unrest trump in two thousand sixteen or corbin. Twenty seventeen in this country's case no one quite wants to trust the pulse of much. they do. I think the fact that and this might be rav embarrassing coming tomorrow morning georgia and taxes as genuine in competitive states. Tomorrow i mind seems to indicate that you would not draw. Joe biden election day when donald trump mt scott any prediction and over in britain. Thank you thank you james. Thank you for listening. And i should say if you're staying up late to watch the. Us election do check out the spectator website. We've got loads of coverage planned coffeehouse throughout the nights and into the early hours of the morning thank you.