Mike Schultz- Highland Training (cross publication w FitLabPGH)


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Today's guests came as a recommendation from Elaine. Tyranny and lane suggested her fiance who were still trying to connect with. And she also suggested Mike Schultz of highland training. Mike has an interesting and ECLECTIC story. I think he's been involved in doing endurance things homeless as long as I have Michael Tell you advance. My first heart rate monitor was in nineteen ninety but not that far difference. We're here at coffee. Buddha enjoying the rainy the weather so mike thanks for taking time to talk to the podcast. You're definitely welcome. And I love doing podcasts because I get to share the story in everything I've learned over the past twenty years when it comes to cycling and strength and conditioning so we're we take it from here. Well we were talking a little bit before we started recording about the difficulty of actually making your living is an endurance coach. And I know there's a lot of people people with personal training with coaching etc.. It's very easy to throw out the co- the term coach and sale. I'm kosher I do this or I do that. But the people people who are actually saying I need to bring the money I need to be qualified are few and far between so when you see somebody you're at a bar your coffee shop or something and they say what do you do. What's kind of your thirty second elevator? Spiel Mike Schultz in I do. I coach endurance athletes. I I mainly coach cyclists and the majority give them our mountain bikers You know we spoke about this earlier but the trend is a lot of people are starting to move onto dirt and love racing their bikes Certified specialists in the strength and conditioning field with the And have you ever certifications and been coaching for for Eleven Years fulltime been coaching racing. Basically learning the sport in the Science for over twenty years. Now so you you know that's what I do do full time work hard for every single person that comes through my door. I'm always curious and I know there's a fair number of people who will be listening this. I will say this is why Endurance Sports. And I know from reading your bio and looking at your webpage for highland training before you coached you actually worry participant in these things. So it's not somebody who's just standing there with a whistle saying you do it because this is what the book says you've actually experienced. How did you get into doing endurance and ultra Durance events do? Did you do that in high school where you are runner in high school. No I played hockey house actually a goalie in high school and I loved playing hockey But you know Post High School Hockey League's went on for so many years and Then amended Meyer early twenties. I started discovering bikes. Actually I think it. I started covering bikes and I was like eighteen nineteen Running around the neighborhood and Just loved riding in started Seeing these guys going fast in SPANDEX and hate me these guys look fast and I was kind of interested in that. You didn't really get heavily into racing until I was about twenty talk twenty six. It's kind of a life. Change happens and quit the job and moved to the mountain road my bike every day and worked part time. Time in from there As where I really fell in love with going long and seeing the views the scenery and you know on early morning misty mornings and you're climbing mountains and there's no one around it's just I dunno it's addicting so that's how I got into question I always have to ask because I have to get it out of the way whenever I interview or talk to somebody who's a cyclist you've probably heard the equation. The perfect number of bikes is plus one. Where N is the current number? You have so. How many bikes excu currently have? Well I have a few bikes and I have a few bikes. That are not even operational right now. I am not the Tech Guy. I just like think to feel fast and fiddle bike. Always have I always will I get a bike and I ride in till it doesn't work and then I get another bike so I have just the basic necessities. I have a really great mom by specialized jumper and I have a doable road bike which is An elise actually lease. I think won the world championship this past year. So I'm on aluminum bike. I'm still proud of it So yeah I just keep keep those you bikes and that gets me through the year wintertime indoors outdoors around as much as I can keep it pretty simple so and you. You mentioned how you got into cycling by seeing people wearing SPANDEX and often when you see people spinning by on the road you bite the the road cycling thing and you get into criteriums and maybe if you have the opportunity some stage races but you didn't go in that direction. You went in the direction of off road. Why did you do that? Or what attracted. Could you do the off road when you first saw the people on road. Well I when I moved to the Somerset seven springs area. There was there's tons of trails and for whatever reason all my friends at the Time Road Mountain Bikes and actually I think I remember my first mountain bike ride. It was a night night rod and it was late at night after a night of celebrating and it was short and it scared the Bejesus out of me but it it helped me on night writing. And that's how you know just mountain biking in general. I think seeing my friends do it. And no one was really into a ton of road routing back then I was like in the mid nineties. there were road rides. That were happened. Races were happened but they're away more mountain bike races happening. And then you started winning about West Virginia. And what's your genomic doc series and I started participating in those races back in the early two thousands and then it's like okay. There's this whole world here of mountain bike races and trails rails and this is fun so that's where the addiction to mountain biking came in and I know I've talked to a few people who exercise outdoors and end up in the mountains around the trails trails. And there really is something about not having to worry about cars and people buzzing you as you mentioned the misty mornings. Sometimes you're focusing on the training. Sometimes you're just just focusing in going while look what I just saw right exactly. I don't know it's just a voice so yeah anytime I'm in the woods and and through the trees and you're pedaling that ribbon of single track and you're flowing with it and with today's bikes. It's way more fun because as you remember twenty years ago Bikes Way Different v brakes and none of this disc brakes hydraulic stuff going on. So yeah a new world and I used to say I don't need disc brakes hydraulic brakes. I don't need front suspension. I still have a hard tail but hydraulic brakes in front suspension in her dowry requirement. For me yeah absolutely. I don't need a hotel. I've never ridden a full suspension. And Yeah I've just like the simplicity of maintenance is that's why. I only have a few bikes because I don't have time to spend a lot of time in meetings which all my friends knew so along with me you can add to. I told the Lane during our interview with her that I blamed her for spending a lot of money and on bikes because she and her ex husband started Derek. I'm curious reaced though you drop down. The rabbit hole of Doing Mountain bike races doing twenty four hour races just being in the mountains. What was it that made you kind of turn the the corner and say okay? I'm going to start coaching too. Because that's a big step upwards or changed just saying I'm going to get on my bike and ride a lot. Well it all started when I put a Hari. Sorry Monitor on in the early two thousands and I became fascinated with heart rates and then over the next six seven years. I started learning that there. There were a lot of people out there but didn't know how to interpret heart rates how to use them and they weren't using the right information so that drove me into you. Want to learn more on the street side of things and I think it was like two thousand six I got sort of a personal trainer author the sea. And at the same time. I met a friend and he was like you need to get your because that can teach you a lot of science and so then the next few years I I pursued that and it wasn't until after that I then said okay. Now what am I gonNa do with this because you know you can maybe go into Footba. Aw I can maybe go into hockey. I love hockey but I was like. I'm so in the cycling. I should stick with cycling and then when I started seeing the cycling community I was like wow. I'm strength strength conditioning. Coach and I could be a cycling coach. And then that's when all the heart rate in the power info and as we talked earlier iphones and technology and then it just blew up and then all of a sudden now have all this data studying came fascinating and that's pretty much my quick story. I'm curious various if you can think back then when you were saying I WANNA get more knowledge why did you decide on the NFL. CPT as your CPT. Because I know there's there's probably one hundred certifications out there are there are some that are a little more difficult an sea acs FM and am and as probably those are the probably the big ones. But what was it that you said you know I want I want to do you this particular one. That's a good question. The and I did my research because I was going back and forth between the NFC and the ACO. Sam and then then you know just through self study and research. I learned that the Esiason was more of a clinical side of things and it was more sports oriented and so I knew I wanted to go. Sports pointed so that's where I started but so yeah that's basically how and plus with the journals strength conditioning drills and all the research that goes along with the NFC. That really attracted me to the. I think there are a lot of people who forget that one of the benefits of some of these organizations is is a member you get these journals annals. Where even? If you aren't a researcher you can just kind of drop down the rabbit hole and rather than have somebody tell you. This is what the research says. You can read the research surge and say oh well they talk about well trained cyclists but these cyclists only averaged fifty miles a week. That's not really a well trained cyclist and I love that. You just said that because out of all of the research articles that I've done and I've written a lot. I write a lot of training peaks and I try as many of the science articles I. I tried to dive into the research and went diving into the research. You need to be able to say all right. This is good research. What's all good research? But this is quality or these. This is exactly tackling looking for because they're using twenty tour to France riders and they're also using twenty mom-and-pop riders and they're taking results between both or they're using study the of five hundred thousand people and that's a lot of data shirt if you see some of the studies I've read you know like you said they're easing ten. Well trained cyclists. They don't explain how well trained or how long they been writing so many variables in this stuff that you kind of look at studies that and say all right. Let's go to the next study steady. Let's see what the next study says. And I know a colleague of Mine Dr J. Daza and I are going to start doing some For moving to live some audio abstracts of research talking about what's well-designed in the study what isn't because not necessarily saying if something published it probably has some piece of information and you can take away from it but I think you hit a great point if they use ten well trained cyclists whatever the definition of well trained is. You might look at that a little bit differently. As opposed host. They say we had two hundred and fifty well trained cyclist who averaged one hundred and fifty miles a week for the eight months prior to the data collection so it's always always be be critical. Don't read it passively and I'm sure you'll agree with me from the educational opportunity is there's Reading for pleasure like picking up the the local newspaper or I guess now in Pittsburgh Reading Online look local newspaper and then there's the reading critically the professional which sometimes makes your head hurt and you you read two pages and you come back and you read those same pages again and maybe the third or fourth time. It's like oh I see what's going on here. That makes a lot of sense and I think that in this field you need to accept criticism and then you need to provide it because it's the only way in science you'll press on if anyone everyone's being critical of your work and and you as well and that's how you learn to question things and even with my clients. I always welcome now. Like galway's question what we're doing because then I get to explain it if you have an ego you're going to be limited. And how well you do and if you're the smartest person in the room you're in the wrong room. That's a good way to put it. So we're talking with Mike Schultz highland training you basically geek out on heart rate. You realize that you like racing you like being in the mountains you pursue certifications nations so that you can first of all gain a little more knowledge for yourself than say wait a second. I think I can help other people so I know that some people they think it's really easy easy. You just start working at a health club facility. You get a weekend certification and Bingo. You're a personal trainer or your your coach. You're making your living at this. You've been doing it fulltime time for eleven years. If you can think back to then how do you find your first athlete. I mean you've got an admittedly in the endurance world. There's not a whole lot of endurance coaches who work with age group athletes. There are some. There's very few who are making their living full time. So you're starting out you've got this you've got the cpt going you know. I'm going to start. Getting some clients may be making a little money to help pay some race entry fees. How do you go about getting A? That's a great question and uh I remember back then saying all right. I'm living in the lower house on some start. This business called hyland training. I like it. I got the website whole bit a new clients and I think I declined to always come from your friends. Because they're right there and they need help and they're curious about what you're GonNa do and I always say. Take him on charge them or not. And then you can wear a little tidbits. But the real breakthrough for me happened. I started started the reforms on training peaks. And I was like all coaches answering questions. Anyone can answer these questions so I'm like I'm a data and answer questions next House answering like ten twenty questions a day out of answering every single day everytime discussion and I always try to be as professional professionals. That could be an answer to the best of my knowledge with the science backing it up and people started liking my answers while there is this coach of Utah that saw me on this forum and for some reason. She wrote an article Linda Wallace False creek and I emailed her and said Linda. I really appreciate you know you'RE I. I like what you re wrote. She wrote back and said You know Mike. Do you want to take referrals. And I was like yes. Yes and from there. She mentored me on starting a business. And we've had partnership for eleven years. I've been out there. She helped me the on. One of my first bike packs and in Arizona great people really well knowledged and well-connected through a few referrals of the year and then starting to write and getting your name out there and things started the bill so I would say that you need to just put your nose to the grind and do whatever it takes thanks to get noticed. That's the key I know one of the first people I interviewed for moving to live as a friend of mine. Rick Howard who does a lot of stuff with long-term athletic development for children and he. You had a comment in the middle of the interview. I don't know if he was aware that he was making it. But this is something that I've seen with a lot of people that I've interviewed the willingness to share knowledge college and to put yourself out there. It's very easy as a coach or trainer professionals that I don't have time or somebody's going to steal my knowledge. Why why do you not have that attitude of well? I can't help people. I can't make these comments because then somebody just GonNa take this information and steal it from because it's a black hole of information literally literally and I never knew there would be this much information ten years later but I'm still learning and we're still learning tidbits of information and you know when it comes to the program so programs a week at a time for everyone. They're really out of touch with everyone every week. I know life I know where they're going. We can dowding's around and that's really really truly that that it really does work So yeah sure someone can steal my program or take my workouts but then how the pieces together. Well that's the complicated complicated part because there's so many variables and you've been doing this for part time or full time for almost twenty years. I'm curious you find your jobs easier now with all the technology and the ease of connecting with the Internet. Or do you find. It's harder because there's so much information it is harder. There is a lot of information and clients and now I work with the majority of my cancer. Age groupers work with a handful of super elites and everyone across the board will see tidbit bit of information. And then send it to you and say what do you think about this or am I doing this wrong. Or am I doing narrow and it's your job to either support that or say you know. This is my my view on it. That's the hard that is hard these days because there's so much information that as a new coach you'll be challenged. I'm interested with a comment. You just made you said as groupers and elite or super early and one of the things as you know in the endurance rural there is very easy to be it quote unquote sponsored in that. Somebody gives you some energy drink or they give you a t shirt or a bike shorts or pair of shoes when you talk about elite for people who are listening who maybe you're not in the endurance world. What do you mean by age group or versus an elite? Well okay so h grouper is his me. That's where I'm at right now and I compete compete within others. That are in close to my age in at our dads and have jobs. That's a different age group age group or doesn't have the time that the a young elite athletes who doesn't have responsibilities and can spend more time on his bike or her bike whereas the elite who work with the week. Nick Beecham out of California Cornea. He's scored I think fifty place in West Virginia. He was six minutes back Nina shirt. or WHO's the best world dot C Lee. You you know these guys. They don't really make a living off of it but they're sponsor with bikes and some travel is like that and Yeah I mean guys like that. He's close to maybe making the US Olympic team. So like that's the regardless between whether you're relief or your age group prevalent works really hard at it to be good you you know if you just want to fly by then yeah. I know. I knew a triathlon coach. When I lived in Atlanta Jay Marshall and Jay's comment about some of these these elite people did not mean this in a negative way but they are genetic freaks they just physically physiologically are able to adapt to the training? And I still remember an athlete that he was dealing with went from. A category are working with went from category five in like two months to category one cyclist. And if you have a comes on the strength to weight and as you know and genetics and we talked earlier about Fast responders and slow responders in training and identifying that. Yeah some people just have to work really hard to be good. I think I was one of them. I think that's what led me to being in my position now as either works works so hard learnt so much to be decent. And but yeah I I see people come through quite often three to six months they do well. Yeah I've seen a lot across the board I about five hundred people I think since two thousand ten something like that and I think one of the things about out endurance sports and being active is you can cycle in and out of being competitive in an age group. So you may like your kids are in school Maybe you've got a little bit of flexibility in your job for the next couple of years you can say okay. I'd like to do a little more to see whatever your goal is. Maybe your goal is to see if you can win your age group at a race in seven springs or maybe your goals are to compete a bite packing trip. Do the leadville one hundred mountain bike race for you as a coach which I think. I've talked about this with Menachem Brodie whose another cycling coach. It's a relationship is not just somebody says. Hey Mike here's some money. GimMe a training program and you send them Excel spreadsheet that has no personality no communication. As a coach. I think what's interesting because we talked a little bit. The art that communication. How do you you Handle it both when you decide that this relationship is not working with a client and or when a client comes to you and says Hey Mike for whatever whatever reason either. You're not giving me the results I want or my life is getting really crazy. It's not really a firing you but it's not gonNA use your coach. How do you? How do you approach that it did? was this a learning process. It is because early on when you're working with few people and then people would drop for whatever reason it would be really hard and because the what's your income and even now it's still hard because you invest all of your time and the people and you're investing your everything you have emotionally even even in so when you you you bring someone on your roster sure. You're thinking about them all the time. That's part of it so when drop go to new coach always things but the same time. I'm like then you get to experience that other person you can compare that to what we did and that will help you learn and if I did really good job then that will come on. And that's how I look at it. I've never really fought a client. I've I've worked with some really tough cookies. Taipei individuals They want every answer all time and respond to it and I just work really hard and usually if they don't get what they want. The you know you never. I was taught early on that. You're never going to please one hundred percent people out there like it's impossible and I know we were talking before recording. You're telling me about a client. who had left you to went with somebody else and went to another person? And now after after two or three coaches there back with you so I always make sense not to burn a bridge. Absolutely I invite everyone back at any time. Actually a lady from Arizona just came back to me from six years ago. She wants to get back into it is in a different position and she's really fast and competitive and then treat her like a brand new decline at this time and we were all from here I know especially in the endurance world. It's very easy to look at the number of people who are competing in marathons or competing in gravel. Grinders or things like that and let's say boy. This is a a really good thing I can get into if I can get X.. Number of athletes you know and I can charge them wide dollars boy. I can make a lot of money at it. How do you decide what's the right number? And I know there's a range of enough athletes both to pay your bills but also to to give you the opportunity to give him that individual attention rather than sending them that excel spreadsheet that you send to six other people which again is we've talked about what you're doing. No and and I've brought on people who've worked with coaches who have eighty hundred athletes and happens that you'll have people get the same program because it's impossible possible to work with that many people and a program like for me. I work one week at a time. Whatever one touch a week at a time with everyone and whatever they have? We work via training winning peaks. I think training peaks is one of the best platforms in the world at what they do as far as like providing schedules and so forth. But yeah I try to dial in weekly Because then that way training is realistic and so even going back. A lot of times coaches would post four weeks at a time but I I noticed that life life is way too complicated for four weeks ago perfectly and so he know there's kids there's pets there's animals there's jobs or stress. There's all this stuff tough and it always goes wrong and so you have to continually adjust on top of that fatigue. Happens and then you. You've got to recognize that. So so yeah I one of my goals was is to always provide a really precise program for everyone and if somebody's a young coach listening to this or somebody who's looking for a coach. How did you for yourself determine? What's the sweet sweet spot for number of ethics too few too many too many? I think getting close to thirty people in a lot because then you start to lose touch with some people people and you know when you get down to twenty kind of find some extra time in the day so I think anywhere between twenty thirty great sweet spot. Twenty five clients agree sweet spot for coach and I know part of the purpose of the podcast is to educate and how people who are listening to this as you mentioned Off Road Gravel rides are becoming becoming popular trail runs becoming very popular so people may not be familiar with those. They may be looking for coaches just to give people what you do. Somebody's approaches you. Say you're down in the low twenty s and gone. Yeah I could probably pick up a couple athletes somebody contacts you or somebody recommends you. What's it's the commitment from an athlete? Do they have to sign up for a specific period of time. Or how does that work. I never do contracts and from my mentor She taught me. This is that I talk through things. A you have to charge for what you do because if you do you work really hard for it so charged. What's fair and fair in the market? Could be she's doing contracts because that means that her clients pay her bills every single month one month at a time and if she loses those people then then she better do a better job and so she goes. I don't do contracts because then I work harder for people and she was right about both of those things and Yeah so one month at a time and I've been working with people for eleven years straight. I've a lot of clients have been with me for six or seven years and eventually amazing they're still making gains. Ah Yeah eventually the JOPPA you work hard for people you'll get the result on the business side that you want and for people who are listening to this you maybe. They don't have a racing goal. Is there a use for somebody who just enjoys being out in the mountains. Whether it's trail running mountain biking riding the gravel by to have a coach each. Yeah I mean I was a number of people I work with that just like to ride and they may do one racer event a year. They just like to fill fast and they like numbers. So so you know if you like numbers fast. Well then I'll fill your brain every single week with numbers on power in heart rates and all that kind of stuff like that and they enjoy uh-huh and what I find is that it's motivating for them because they have this person on the other side kind of like seeing watching expecting what they're gonNa do and when when you take that away then you're on your own you can do whatever you want. So that's the difference. They often say fool has themselves for coach. Some people can self coach really well. It is across the board hard in for me. You know. Obviously I have to kind of self coaching in a way. Not as competitive as it was but stratas were changes for me. All my clients are on Straw of. I'm not writing. I feel guilty. So it's it's a two-week Huey Street. I'm curious also very common. That husband wife boyfriend girlfriend get into this. We want to train for fill in your favorite favorite gravel grinder or one hundred mile race or metric century race. And they come to you and say hey we want to hire you as a coach. How do you balance that where they say they wanNA ride together together and they may be a vastly different either skills or physiological fitness so they actually would not have the same program but they're approaching you because they want to do it together? It's almost impossible impossible to work with people like that. I would just say. Would you repeat that. Please took almost impossible. I'll say almost because there are some rare situations situations and I have worked with couples before. But you do run into problems with the as far as well. Hey We the same program or we don't or how are we gonNA construct these rides. I his best to work with one or the other and then if the other one six coaching have them work with another coach and then they can deal with it on their end. You know. That's uh-huh better way to do it. So we're talking with Mike Schultz of highland training. I'm curious you've been in the coaching business. Double digits of years. You're here in Pittsburgh as we're we're talking. I don't think we're being insulting by saying Pittsburgh is not a hotbed for endurance activities. Why the decision to stay in the Pittsburgh area as supposed to saying boy? I'm going to go out to where my mentor is in Utah or I'm going to go to Colorado or Wyoming or someplace where you're not the weird guy riding down the road in the middle of winter in the tights at a beanie. you're out of the norm. It's a good question and I question that a long time ago then I met my wife and she works in the city and not yet but I love this city. I love the topography. It's just always been home for me so I didn't really WANNA move anywhere and I enjoy traveling out West. I'm joy gone Colorado enjoy business but I really enjoy coming home so I knew you. You know when you have that feeling it's like I knew that if I was good at endurance I could do it anywhere. It didn't matter where I was so so I stayed here and I know that they're one of the opportunities -tunities or benefits of Pittsburgh is cost of living significantly cheaper so you can afford to go to those destinations to do those things. I'm curious how you approach an athlete. Who comes to you? Who may be has a goal but they don't have the time to achieve that goal? You mentioned that a number of the people you work with our high-powered attorneys physicians ends and we all know especially with physician attorneys Number of patients billable hours. You know they may have a goal and say man. I want to do this. Twenty four hour race Acer. I WanNa do this hundred mile race and I have this goal in mind and you know just from your knowledge that they don't have time in the day week month to train for it. How do you give them realistic expectations? Where maybe they can train forward and complete it but not competed it yeah? That's that's important setup realistic expectations of people. And you know it's it's funny. I just brought on a lady just mentioned and she fits that exact bill. She's really she's a teacher teaches outside of teaching but she she likes to ride a bike and once the race at twenty single speed and February's and so she needs an hour a day Monday through Friday on the weekends. You can ride so oh for her. Expectations are sort of real estate because she can get off for long rides on the weekends and and that makes it the bill we spoke about it earlier there there. There's a sweet spot for prescribing certain intensity and certain volume and you don't necessarily need big volume all the time to do. Well a big races. Is You just need spots of volume here and there to prep you for that long distance. So for most people goals are actually achieve -able for very few people they might be setting their self or something unrealistic Say We're here in the North Hills of Pittsburgh. I'm curious what it's like. Not so much with at the elite athletes who can go to training camps but more with the age groupers. Who have these goals of doing some of these events out west where they're at altitude I know I mentioned a couple couple times leadville. I interviewed Sam. Would who's a runner. Who's done that? You know you start at ten thousand feet you go up to fourteen thousand plus. I know you know significantly different than climbing and doing things around Pittsburgh. How do you approach that with them? So that they have a good experience maybe they don't go as fast as they would at sea level but they still finished and say boy. That was was a fun experience while I have a lot of people doing that. Now because Leadville is really big Brecca epic is really big and You know across the board. It's all aw about how physiologically you handle altitude. It's also about how many times you've raised at altitude. I'm finding ivory sell to quite a bit and so now when go back to you. Doug acclimate pretty fast. I didn't ten years ago and I have some really fast guys locally here that went out to break up and then they struggled one. One of those reasons is because it was forty degrees rain on the first day but which destroyed everyone I think but the altitude part actually attitude because this skyhigh came out kind of sick and in the altitude part made it even worse. But I will say this that if you're going to go do a race at altitude and it's going to be ten thousand feet. You should want to be there at least a a week early because I wouldn't go the day before because that's like a crap shoot so have you found that you've had some clients over the years that they just those people who do not know do well at altitude no matter what I mean. There's not that many races at altitude to really study. Not that I would say and a lot of my clients are smart enough not to pick races at that high altitude. You know the the only ones out there you know you have leadville. Oh you've breckenridge outside of those races everything is when you're in the six thousand seven thousand foot range. It's not as dramatic as it is nine or ten. So you've mentioned might that a number of your clients are fairly high-powered individuals and I know one of the things people often talk about. When they meet attorney they'd be doctors that they see their attorney or see their doctors? They're very driven. They're very focused. Some people term arrogant. You Find it interesting to deal with these individuals. Do they try to tell tell you what to do. Or do you find that there are approaching you because it's kind of I recognize this outside of my wheelhouse and Mike the Expert here one hundred percent and you know I I again. I've tried to work really hard to learn as much as I could ever. The passing yourself could be that expert. I'm still learning and but when anyone comes to me I would say that we go back to people starting in his field. You'RE GONNA be confident about what you're doing. And the more knowledge you have with the Science and the studies and experience more confident. You'll be sooner. Everyone just leaves it up to me and I work a lot of people who are really busy and successful and they say all the time like just put an attorney and yeah I'll do it and so you know I mean it's a little more complicated than that. They have to gain power and speed. That's part of it if they're not doing now getting making gains they won't last but but yes in this field. You GotTa just be firm at what you know and put it out there and I know I think you've really hit on on a couple of times the importance of continuing to learn. I know I had somebody before I went. Got My doctor to say. Why do you WANNA get your doctor? You should already have enough education and once yes I got my doctor. I realized I don't know anything. And that's why have literally across the world a variety of friends and colleagues. If it's something that's outside of my wheelhouse like email bob or skype them and say. Hey gimme the down and dirty this so at least can sound reasonably competent. And there's two things I mean referring people to other professionals key. I never tried to be a doctor. I don't WanNa be any traditionalist. I'm good at one thing. Getting people strong and so so I focused on nutrition does come into a little bit but but yeah when someone has an acre pain than they need to fit special so they need to see an athlete trainer. They need to see dipped or a doctor. And that's really important. The second part of that is always learning You know there's so many tidbits of information and when when you start working with some of the leads you start getting all these like even if you hear something go research it and then see how much value that is. And then that's how you keep learning all all these little bits of information But can share. We're talking with Mike. Schultz highland trading at curious started out as a biker. Did quite a few twenty four hour races and other ultra endurance type. Things got into coaching. But still do the writing yourself you said strove Kinda hold your feet to the fire but a lot the people they hit a certain age and they kind of say yeah. I'm done I don't WanNa do this anymore. What keeps you doing some sort of movement in addition to the coaching too? Good question fitness when I started though so way back in the late two thousands. I got away from cycling for years and gained some weight and and I think I was about to twenty five at one point and I remember buddy looking at me and he said that I had catcalls ankles and and I'll never forget it. He's buddy out Colorado. Listen to this Aleph. anyways at that point I was like I gotTa make a change I snapped and ever since then and what's funny is that I have a pitcher side by side in my office of me. That guy was overweight on the bike and then six years later later me racing at twenty four hour race coming in second to a well-known guy named tinker and chased him down. And when you look at those pictures you can see the dramatic change. Change went from twenty five to one sixty erasing fast and keeps me going. I think that's a good place to cut it up talking with Mike Schultz of highland training. I think he's given Some great information on what. It's like to actually make your living as a coach slash trainer since when you work with cyclists and runners you are training them and coaching them. And I think he's given a great example of what keeps him

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