Malcolm Nance - Throwback
They get the perfect background music for your business in the world's biggest catalog with over fifty million songs soundtrack. Your brand lets you search by song or artist just like you're used to play whatever you want and schedule it for whenever you want. It's fully licensed legal for your business right. Now you can try soundtrack free for thirty days. Just go to. Www dot soundtrack. Your brand dot com and get started. Its background music that works. Donald trump has been under. Kgb surveillance since one thousand nine hundred seventy seven. Cynthia married to yvonne yvonne. Us father was the reporting person to check intelligence. Donald trump. All of this is passed onto the kgb which goes into a dose a or older. That's mark donald. J trump from one thousand nine hundred seventy seven until suddenly. Donald trump meets the foreign minister of russia new york city and wants to go to moscow to proposed building a trump tower moscow in the soviet union. So now that guy that's on his typewriter reports that back to moscow moscow's foreign ministry gets a copy and the other administrators. The kgb gets a copy and they go get to me the donald trump file this guy. We've been collecting against them since. Nineteen seventy seven. Look at this guy narcissistic greedy manipulable. And now you do. Is you assign a small team of two or three intelligence officers to do it. Young baby spies like vladimir. Putin malcolm nancy's a thirty six year veteran of the navy who ascended to the highest levels and fought in combat in multiple countries and learned all about counterterrorism tactic. Spying everything this is some super soldier. Super spy super man. Ish he's brilliant. He's toffees deeply patriotic. He's written a book about the way. Trump has betrayed america and the way. Russia has lured him in called the plot to betray america. We talk about being a soldier being a fighter and what it is that russia has over trump. It's not what you think. It's malcolm nance on tour. Show malcolm what is your favourite gun. That's a loaded question but don't cheer my favourite gun. That's very strange question. But it's funny. It's one of those strange questions. I actually have an answer to your an expert in all sorts of things. I am actually a gun collector and i collect a whole series of what i call clone weapons. These are weapons. I would have carried or did carry. When i was operating in the middle east so i have very you know. They're all special operations configured rifles. And i also have a collection of special operation sniper rifles so my favorite. It's like asking what your favorite child is but there you know there are. There are weapons that have different different capabilities. And the ones you know. There are highly collectible weapons and firearms and then there are those that you you really would practice on and i would say the one that i'm that is probably the most collectible In my inventory is a special operations issue naval special warfare issue so it was kind that were issued to the seal team. Full kit except for the suppressor in except for the silencer and that say It's called the mark levin mud zero and it's a sniper rifle That was standard issue throughout the entire afghan war Semiautomatic looks like an ar fifteen. But it's a much bigger bullet and it's very very rare that they have the actual kit. Kit is the actual case exactly as its issue to a seal team member everything. That's inside it. With the exception of the suppressor because the suppressor is a completely different ball of wax that you have to apply to the government to get and so the optics in there. You know the documentation right down to the toolkit and cleaning rod and everything including all the paperwork so it is a government issue weapon that i happen to get on the open market. They only have a couple of these every once in a while high. Did you get as a soldier. Not very high. I mean you know high relative because there are in most services. There are two branches right. There's officer which is when you go to university and you get a commission in your know battlefield leader and you go from like lieutenant into general and then enlisted. Enlisted is when you start from private or seaman and you work up to sergeant major but within the navy. We actually have three differentiated sections. We have officers. we have enlisted. And then we have chiefs and the navy has this category chief because it required people who were technical experts on ships or systems and who would be the corporate knowledge of ship right officers. Come and go right. They rise up and rank they go off to other commands enlisted people that come and go left and right but chiefs are usually the lifers and those three ranks from e seven eight and nine which is chief senior chief and master chief. They are in the navy. God's word when they make chief they have an entire two-month initiation process or you're educated and then you have a special highly interesting ceremony where they initiate you into the brotherhood of chief. So there's a creed for the chiefs. We wear khaki uniform like the officers but a different hat. Insignia that specifies. A chief you and i was a senior chief petty officer out of the three. So have chief senior chief master chief. My dad was a master chief which is as high as you can go. In the enlisted ranks. My brother was a senior chief of dr atomic. Submarines my dad worked in boiler systems. Back starting back in the fifties so we have a few chiefs in our family but being a chief is a global brotherhood. And i mean. I am obligated. You know someone who is a chief and can prove to me that he's a navy chief and he asked me a question straight up. I am obligated to give him a straight up answer and this is where sort of my claim to fame. Came came in When i was at msnbc I was the terrorism. Analyst is still him and they brought me on as a military member former military member to talk about how donald trump was insulting the gold star families and i was on camera with name Steve cortez who is a conservative talker and he insulted zero khan and And his wife in front of me. And i went to a place that you generally do not see right. I went right back to the very moment that i was still in the navy and a senior chief petty officer and i turned on him and i gave him the full blast of what any poured dumb stupid soldier. Who came across me and did a mistake would get and i just chewed him out on national tv and the funny thing is. There's this little technique we use when we're really angry. We put our left hand on our hip and our right hand comes out into a flat. Palmed like i'm gonna slap you and bends at the elbow and that's called the blade hand and that means you're really angry and you are serving it to him right. I didn't even know i was doing that. I had chiefs around the world right to me and said you did it right. You were blade handing that. I was like what and they were here like. Yes right right on chief. You went full senior chief on that guy and i said well i just was not going to allow a family that had sacrificed their son for us to be insulted in front of me. And so the chief world for anyone who knows chiefs or was in the navy. It's different from like sergeant majors. I mean all chiefs are revered and feared and we have our own little spaces on ships in that commands called the goat locker because in the old days navy. They all had like those little wispy beards at the chin kung fu beards and they would live in a place near where the goats were stored. Right the old goats locker so all spaces for chiefs where you were what. You can't come into you just can't walk into it. You have to have permission officers have to have permission to come into. It is called the goat locker. I even have a goat locker in my house. So are you also a spy. Well i'm naval intelligence. I was as a matter of fact. And i us naval intelligence euphemistically to sort of stay away from where i really was. But now that. I'm i'm out and about everyone knows I was a naval cryptology. A codebreaker that's what cryptology is is the study of breaking codes and the cryptologic field is the field that since oh really formally organized just before world war two where we studied. Let me give it to you. I can't tell you what we do in the modern world. But i'm gonna tell you what we did in world war two so if you watch the battle of midway movie the old one not the new one You will understand that. We intercept japanese communications for example back then that were being broadcast or put out by morse code we would intercept that and those messages could in plain voice and so we would understand it. So we'd have a japanese linguist. Listen to it and then if it was encoded it was sent in morse code or some other machine And then cryptology would actually work that code backwards and break the code. Which of course would come out into japanese and then cryptologic linguist which is like what i was would translate and interpret and determine the intelligence value of that. So that's how it was done. That's how we actually won the battle of midway a team of Communications intercept operators were collecting japanese naval codes and a brilliant team including led by a guy who used to play poker with japan's naval commander yamamoto when he was a liaison officer in japan. Who was fluent japanese name Commander rochefort Actually broke the code of the japanese navy. Prior to midway the j twenty five coat and they could they could read the japanese orders so whether go and they said the japanese fleet which has now disappeared is northwest of midway island. They are going to invade midway with an amphibious fleet. And there are six japanese aircraft carriers out there and they don't know where we are and so we snuck up on them knowing precisely where they were bombed them and sank five out of six of the japanese carrier. Can you talk about. Can you name some of the battles that we might have heard of that. You've been a party. Yeah there's a few you know. I you know in my world and this goes back to the words spy by the way we use it euphemistically because anyone who's an intelligence collector technically buying and i am on the board of the international spy museum in washington. So yes some of the operations. That i was involved in you might have known about I was in beirut in one thousand nine hundred eighty three before the marine barracks bombing killed two hundred and forty three marines. I was there for the as a matter of fact i arrived that the day before the american embassy was bombed and they killed all of the cia staff in that bombing. Nine cia officers. And that day. I mean i was nineteen years old and i became one of the only five people still left in the country. That could speak arabic and me and a couple of marine cryptology were. us intelligence collection capability in lebanon. That day you know and you're just like good morning We don't know what's going on in this country. Everybody got killed now. You need to start collecting and getting us information. So beirut of the first american embassy bombing the second american embassy bombing all the hostages that were taken in lebanon seventy six western hostages collected against tried to isolate fine them. Twa forty seven hijacking. I was deeply deeply involved in that that loss that resulted in the loss of a navy. Sailor robert dean them Then going on the war the mini wars. We had with iran in one eighty eight. I was actually in the naval battle. A missile battle called the battle of siri island Where we literally blew up an oil platform got into a ship to ship missile battle with an iranian missile boat which almost got us the missile missed us by a hundred and fifty feet and then we sank ever living heck out of him and then we shut down an airplane that came out to attack us and all of this happened to spend a few hours but these were public things. You just don't know what's going on in the background. I mean there's constant intelligence collection to predict an identify what the enemies doing You know i was involved deeply in the first gulf war Did all sorts of operations in the first gulf war. I mean i went was on ships. And then i went ashore with explosive. Ordinance disposal teams Enemy missile batteries and sensitive intelligence. I went into iraq and did a bunch of stuff by the way. That's how we talk about stuff that we're not gonna talk about budget stuff. I did some things i did them. There i am curious here as best as you can. Perhaps one of your hairiest war stories that you can tell We were telling more stories earlier today. Harry is a is a relative term. Because we've now been in combat for very long time. And when i retired from the military i just became an intelligence an intelligence subcontractor which means that i did very similar jobs for agencies on contract That were very hairy And i'm going to tell you the funniest one which is going to be in one of my memoirs when they were story because it was the most dangerous thing i did in iraq and I dealt only with iraqis. And so i had an iraqi group that were working for me. They were intelligent subcontractors. We were doing things that we did. Not want americans around right american around bad so i was the only american and they and i'm african american so i i don't blend in as well. I'm just more explainable. Like i might be sudanese. Or i might be somebody else who is just there and trapped there whatever and we operated out of a safe house in west baghdad and we drove around. My my ride was not armored. Humvee my ride was a bmw. Seven thirty five. I and just blacked out windows. And you know there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of bmw's that came down from turkey Right after iraq opened up so we could roll around clandestinely. you know. And wasn't armored. It was just a regular bmw. But you know we kept that engine tuned upright and You know we had a driver who was smart enough to know when it was dr at time to drive up and down the sidewalks when it was time to escape and we were just packed with guns. I mean you know we were. We were rolling around with everyone had submachine guns or a squad automatic weapon or something like that so one night. I was safe files. And i have next to me. The radio system for all the facilities where either guarding or watching and in the middle of the night i might. It's all in arabic right. So it was like blah blah blah blah. Right and then. I would always wake up when something out of the ordinary was happening right. And i'm hearing the arabic and the arabic like call the chief. Call the chief because they called me chief right and so i go. I wake up and i instantly and i immediately dressed. I don't. I don't wait because you know you never know it could be a battle or something. Finally get on the radio. And i go. What's going on and they were like. There's a problem out at six and site. Six was a complex of safe houses. We were guarding. That belonged to somebody else that were not in the green zone. Okay they were somewhere else and somewhere else was the rest of iraq right and that's dangerous so i'm like what's going on. And they said there's a problem at sites six. And i said what's going on and they said i don't know but they turn on all the flood lights and i was like floodlights. Are you out of your mind right every terrorist in the country. It's one in the morning is coming for us right. Turn off the floodlights. They said they can't. They're scared right. And i'm like what do you mean scared so i said okay we're gonna q. F we're gonna reaction force over there in are like to bmw's there's eight of us. So i get all the squad that i'm with up and including guys who liked to fight. I had two guys really liked to fight and one of them was an iraqi national bodybuilder bodybuilding champion and it was just amazing and the funny thing is. He liked that little tiny h k. You know This tiny submachine gun. They called the rabbit. You know and five k. For those of you who are experts out there and it's a tiny little submachine gun that you can barely conceal in us in a suitcase or on your arm and he just loved that gun but it was scored out like thirty bullets and a few seconds. So we jump into our vehicles. And i'm like this. Is the most dangerous thing i have ever done was to get into to blackout unmarked. Bmw's in baghdad in the middle of the night in two thousand four which was the beginning of the wave of uncertainty while qaeda could just go wherever they please and they would just walk up to you at ice cream and shoot you in the back of the head. They owned that place right. And then you had. Saddam fedayeen commandos which were saddam's terrorist forces that were eighty percent of the terrorists. We're fighting and so i'm mike. This is dangerous. we're in the car we strapped. And if there's a bradley you know a us army checkpoint with a bradley armored vehicle we are going to get vape is d- they are not going to ask us for our passes or if we work for you know some agency they're gonna hose us down with thirty millimeter chain gun and then they'll go. Oh this guy was. Us too bad. So fortunately we made our way to the site. And there was no checkpoints. I was just praying to god. I mean i turn on an infrared strobe. I put one on the roof of the car. And i thought oh my god some of these al qaeda guys have infrared detectors. So they're going to know we're blue forces so they're going to kill us to off just dangerous finally roll into the site and all. The guards are away from their posts and at the front gate under floodlights. It's like a giant neon sign. That says please kill all of us right now right here and i'm like shoes on right. What's going on here right. And they were like chief chief big and like what big problem and he goes. Stupidest thing does seem. I said what is does gene cheese gene. I said are you telling me that you are seeing genies goes yes. Chief does gene gene there. And i'm like you. I just walked through baghdad in the middle of the night. And you're telling me your site has been illuminated. Because you're seeing ephron genie's goethe genie's like genies the spirit from the koran who grant you three wishes the they believe them. Because they are part of the chronic tradition genie's between spirits and men they interact with men they marry women and have sex with them and have jeannie babies and they were thoroughly convinced that they had seen jeans and they all abandoned their posts. And we're standing under the floodlights to ward off the genie's so i was just like okay that's it i go up and i'm like where you show me often genie's okay and i'm really angry. I mean this is literally the most dangerous thing i've done in my life was leave a safe house at night and you didn't have a helicopter gunships on your side and in fact the helicopter gunships should have shot our asses on our way over there if they had been seeing us with guns. They don't ask questions in iraq they just kill and they take me to the top of the roof and they said they saw them over there they saw over there and so i go up there and i go. I think the guy is just gone. He takes me up he leaves. Wait around so i go. How have night vision right. So i let my eyes adjust and then you know about ten minutes. I'm listening. I'm watching. And i'm like what the how and they said that they had seen That they had seen his red eyes or something like that and he was floating in the air. And i was like so i put my nods on right night vision goggles and i look out there and i'm like there's nothing out. There is nothing out here. And i have. My rifle has an illuminated or on it which will flood you with infrared light. And you can't see it. It's in the infrared spectrum. So i wash over with my infrared. And i don't see anything at all and then after a minute. Or so. A tiny light flickered over there. And if you had your just visual you wouldn't have seen it right. it's just night and phyliss it. He know what someone's got night vision goggles on over there. And i go out there and i said here's what i'm gonna do. I put on my laser and the only way you can see that laser is if you have night vision goggles on and it's a boom pencil beam of high intensity laser light and i put it right on that right and suddenly the light moves because he sees that i see him and he's got night observation devices on because he sees my laser on him and then i go black. I turn everything off. And i go army or marines real quietly. I just go army or marines. You don't whisper because whispers carry too far. And i knew i said some one of our people are out here. On top of our buildings and somehow people saw them and confused night-vision with glowing eyes and so after a few minutes just sitting there. Nothing then he goes army. I'm like god damn it. I said my people think you're effing genie's i said genie's like three wishes genius because they saw you're not and they were wearing a gilly suit a camouflage suit that makes you look like bush's i go. I'm going to leave now and you going to shift your post. We're going to give you fifteen minutes. You can just walk out. Nobody sees you. No one's going to know which direction you went. But you need to move off this and then i hear them start giggling. 'cause they're laughing that my my iraqi guards genie's right and i. It's storming out. The steps pompous murph. Curious like sealy's marching. There's no gene up that they're like all. I watch if there's gina there too. There's jean and i'm like i couldn't convince them i'm like we're all sleeping here. No one's leaving this site until daylight. Okay because you think. I'm going to go back to my house and get vaporized by a c. One thirty gunship or accidentally run into an al qaeda ambush. Not leaving here. I'm sleeping on the ground right in front of this place. Turn off the floodlights. So thousand incredible story and i know you were scared in that story. Can you tell a story. That's not funny where you actually really were scared. Oh yeah what happened all the time. I mean we accidentally ran into an ambush that was not us and that was scary and that was like oh i gotta take a piss right now. Scary it's called fear pissed by the way what we call it. Which is why we have little containers with us in the car all the time so we were in the karate district of baghdad and i was running a two car team and there were only five of us and i was in the lead car in the rear. So and and we so we put two iraqis in the front seat of each car. So that's four. And i was the fifth because i was the principal and i'm armed because there's no such thing as not being armed in baghdad. I'm the fifth gun on this movement. And i can't remember what we were doing. We were going through. Kuroda and crowd is always getting zapped right Suicide bombers and everything. They blew up a mall. There that killed like eight hundred people at one time and there was a a high profile western security contractor convoy in front of us have three vehicles and their armored and there was this one section of colorado. I always thought was sketchy. Because they have arches they have arched sidewalks which means there are path sort of like scaffolding only stone and they have arches in them for two years. I was just like i. Just don't get those right. Why did they need those there. And it was just stylistic but it gives you the right it gives you hard cover and those two vehicles for about ten car lengths ahead of us when traffic was moving like five miles per hour and then we hear you know heavy machine-gun. Pk a machine gun. Go off and start blasting away on the lead vehicle. A convoy coming from above. And then we saw ak got men with ak47's in both sides. Hosing this convoy down. Hosing it down. And they're trying to get through just driving into traffic and smashing cars in front of them. They're getting hit. And you're going to lose your armor integrity at some point. And then i was like i was about to to everybody on the radio standby arabic and tougher right. This is not us right. it's not us. It's not our game because you know you don't know how many guns are out there. And we had a guy can say his name but he was a young soccer player really good soccer player and for that few seconds. I'm evaluating how many guns are going off. And we're all loading we're locking and loading when i'm telling the driver. Hey don't don't don't touch your guns we're gonna we're gonna either back out of here we're going to smash away out or we're going to just pretend we're not here right and what's going on up. There is them you know and The guy or soccer player. You know He is the squad automatic weapon. That's a light. Us machine gun and he wasn't having it he saw somebody evaluated as a danger and he dismounted he just he got out and so the rear car was doors open and dismounting which is our signed for mutual defense right so we i'm like oh we're doing this. This is a good. So i go. Okay dismount. this dismount right. Which is the order and you say it in english. So there's no confusion in the arabic to get get out. Get out of the car right. We're moving either. We're going to ban in the car or we're gonna fight and in this thing it was. We're gonna fight because he went left to this wall after he had dismounted and he had seen two of these guys who were doing the ambush in the arches and these guys are from baghdad. So they know. Those arches and ali just Or the driver of the squad guy. He went over to that wall and with a squad automatic weapon. He just hose two guys down. He broke the ambush right there and then we saw like you know you know. What do we call a catalytic right battle forward. And that means just keep pushing forward move to the next arch and By breaking the by killing those two It broke the ambush. And then the armored vehicles saw pathway out and they pushed a car out of their way and armored suburbans and they smashed into the car in trove it out of the way and all three cars got out of the ambush and so when the pk a machine guy saw two of his two of his four guys go down just lost fifty percent strength. They decided there was something happening down there that they couldn't do deal with and there was time to go. So that broke the assault on the americans who were in those we have. The company was called control. Risk and i almost contract them and we later went to them. We were like hey see the skinny little iraqi soccer player. Yeah he broke your assault yesterday and they will go on your way and that was that you know. They were just jerks but it was just phenomenal. 'cause he was behind me he could see something i couldn't see and he's forcing me to get out of my protection and now black guy with an m for iraqis with h k submachine guns. We looked like something right. We're not just you know guys on the street who were riding in their. Bmw's now we're bringing the target to us and so take a big piss after that you talk about guys who really liked to fight are you there. You a guy who loves to fight no no. That's not my job. My job there was to collect in that. Us forces couldn't collect using people that us forces shouldn't be seen with right. You don't want to come out with if you got an entire organization of iraqis right the minute they see an american you're compromised and that says oh those guys are something they're special and it's not like iraqi army because we weren't riding around in armored vehicles we were you know in bmw's and you don't know you don't know if the guy who's on the street corners al qaeda's reconnaissance man you know when he's he sees the safehouse you turn into and then the next night a suicide bomb truck pulls up in front of you. I mean one of our neighbors was not one of our neighbors we had. We live near a sally. Who was the guy who conned us into the iraq war And we were a couple of blocks away from him in in the In the heart. Thea district of baghdad. And somebody went to go. Get this guy right. That's that's what we call it when they send a suicide bomber and the bomber prematurely detonated because they keep a separate trigger team away from you. So that if you get frightened they're going to blow that vehicle anyway. So the bomber was supposed to wait for a convoy with chalabi in it. The convoy came and it turned left in front of him and the bomb or got scared. So the bomber didn't go off as mark so that he would be next to the challenge convoy but it was very heavily populated neighborhood. So there's two down the block or two guys with the actual detonator and they're watching you so if you chicken out they they blow your vehicle and you your martyr anyway. So he chickened out and turned left and he went into our neighborhood which was a shopping district and the trigger just blew the vehicle and his torso the rear part of his torso landed on our doorstep. And i've a photograph in my in my book and the terrorists iraq which was an analysis of every terrorist group that was operating in iraq. I had done while. I was in iraq. I've a photograph of somebody getting ready to put a sheet over it and we had to use like shovel to roll that guy out of there but those things are terrifying for second. I wanted to your your book about trump before we get to that. Can you describe it. The mentality that usc let me tell you about something. That's really cool. That will help you learn a lot really fast. Because it's hard to find time to read and to know what to read but reading is critical to our growth. And i've got an app that can help and it's pretty awesome blink east. That's right blink. Est it gives you the key takeaways from all sorts of nonfiction books it condenses them into fifteen minute bites that you can read or listen to so you can chow down big ideas in lots of books really fast. 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For more information barack obama's presidential memoir a promised land is available anywhere books are sold soldier has to have. I mean i know that you you train for everything so no you train the mind to be ready to go and to be selfless and to be you know mercenary and ready to kill and like what is the mindset that you that you want people to have well you know. That's really sort of what they're trying to instill in you if you're a marine or your army. I was navy and But you know. I was not a seal by the way i'm on spy. And so you really have to have a mindset in your head anyway and then what you do is you emulate the people that you're around so i worked around a lot of seals a lot of special operations personnel right joint special operations a lot of cia officers Paramilitary people because our job. There was to acquire information assets and resources that other westerners didn't want westerners around you wanted only iraqis to handle so if you wanted to follow an an saddam fedayeen general us americans to do that right you use iraqis use a bunch of iraq. So that they never see the same guys twice. And that you have to have a point of contact for that and so i just think i had a natural mindset for this and that mindset was. I'm not getting hurt. My guys are not getting hurt. Anybody gets in our way getting hurt and you know it's a very positive mindset and i'd seen that in you know i've worked with these guys in a really aggressive mindset. Hey blackout the fear the fear. You're not afraid unless you're naturally afraid person doing your job right. You've got to really sort of choke it down in those. It was only that. I've had more surprise in that ambush and more worry for the convoy in front of me i was like. Oh that's not going to be good. They're gonna if they keep shooting on. These guys are going to be hurting. Then i look back and they're like this guy is dismounting. And i'm like what. Now you get a little tickle you know and then you start going. Oh that's not going to be good but if you don't do something you're now committed and it could be worse. I mean you you that flash of you all dead in the car with your guns on your lap goes through your head. So you're more attuned to just taking action but my job was to be off the radar. It was not to be engaging the enemy was not. I mean i had resources and assets in people that we liaise with if i needed to bring a hellfire missile down. I had the number on the phone. You know but they will send their own reconnaissance out or task a helicopter or satellite. And then they'll like. Yeah thanks man's down by boom. The building blows up and it's just like nobody saw me. I'm not here. Was the difference between being a good soldier and being a great soldier. What let me talk more about the people that i know Because i knew people in the intelligence community. And we're talking again this world we're in is sort of like you know. This isn't cryptologic collection. I did you know special operations cryptology And you might recall. We lost one. This year was a legacy person from my world. chief Shannon kent senior chief as she was promoted to and she was doing human intelligence as a navy cryptology arabic interpreter in syria Alongside of special operations special operations officer and interpreter and a A defense intelligence agency human intelligence officer but the really great ones. Don't get killed. Or if they do it's gods will the is really it. Depends if you're a door. Kicker like jay sock operators that's that's national mission units right rangers delta silty six or any special forces oda or any seal platoon. Your job is to break things and your break them. Good and on the intelligence collection side. Our job is to collect data so that we can send those you know the the right the pipe hitters. We call send them in to go. Do the you know out of the dark knight sort of thing but we operate in environments where we can't be defenseless. The people who i saw were really good. Let's put those two worlds. I knew special operations soldiers. I know some you know guys now. Even our director at the spy. Museum dan cole. Who was a army special operations. Human intelligence guy who took over human intelligence and special ops for the seals and went to afghanistan and he did all sorts of crazy crazy dangerous stuff. Those guys are really relatively soft spoken. They are not the you know route rura. Let's kill everybody. They're very well educated and they understood the environment they were operating and And they emulated some of the great people in global intelligence one of my my role model is a guy by the name of You know sir. Richard burton not the actor. It was a he was an english. He was an english master of languages in the late eighteen hundreds and he spoke twenty eight different languages Started out in. India mastered arabic to a doctorate level fluency and then master dirty street arabic and like ten dialects and he was the first person to actually the first englishman to infiltrate to go to mecca as a muslim and he saw himself as a muslim so he didn't have a problem with it but every muslim there was ready to kill them if they had found out that he was english and he went in and i mean he he inspected the kaaba the were any measured the meteorite. That's held inside there. And he went pretending to be a syrian doctor and so he also practiced medicine on all the hajjis. Who were there. And he's very popular whereas you know. Lawrence of arabia was just a liaison officer attached there who spoke arabic who he also managed to pass himself off as a blonde haired syria. There's a couple of other wartime questions. That i wanna get into. Your book is extraordinary taught to betray america. Third in a trilogy and you lay out with almost lawyer. Like precision the relationship between trump and russia. And when you finish reading this you're like yes. He has been controlled not just by putin by russian oligarchs for many decades and as we spoke on this before the first thing that one does when you want to try to get somebody to portray something it's to see what is your financial point and there is some level at which we can say how we give you this amount of money and they'll say okay. I'll give you up. I'll give you my mother at that amount of money and that is what so we we. There's a there's a popular notion that there's some compromise that there's some video or some secret putin has but your arguments know putin has said you can make this amount of money while we're gonna let you do a moscow trump hotel and you're gonna make a ton of money and because of that trump has been like yes. I do whatever you want. Well it goes deeper than that and actually within the intelligence community. We do that. We by people. I've been on operations where it's it's sort of a joke. A euphemistic joke. But i've actually heard this phrase. I'm going to start putting gold bars on the table and you tell me when you can't carry it out right and then you start you know for what we call. Crown jewels indulgence. Just stuff where. You're buying everything in that government safe and i didn't believe in that actually for a very long time to one day. I saw crown jewels intelligence. And i thought did he use a back how to move the goal because because it was as i was looking at this information which was which saved thousands of people in in and stop a war. I looked at it. And i thought that's a backhoe that guy probably got a ton of gold up and sworn in as a us citizen on the spot and extracted at the end of the operation and probably owns half of west hollywood and then i thought it would be worth it. That's sometimes how we do it. Usually especially you're talking about the russians you talking about people but with characters like donald trump they the russians targeted for very long time under the kgb they targeted conservatives they targeted conservative because they wanted people who were self serving and avaricious and who had no ideological links to them and that would give them greater credibility and so as i spell out in the book. Donald trump has been under kgb surveillance since one thousand nine hundred seventy seven. He's married to ivana right. Says she came from the old czech republic. that's correct there was communists. Check washing ham. Paying attention to him at actually agency is the stv. That was the subordinate check. Intelligence agency that reported directly to the and of course their collective job in warsaw pact intelligence that was russia's version of nato was to turn westerners who would come and visit your country turn them into spies and then send them back to the west to collect intelligence. Four years you're nothing. He's a spy no no no. I'm i'm just spelling out. What the russian intelligence did with the subordinate agencies. Ivanka's father was the reporting person to check intelligence. Donald trump and the way we know this is the guardian and a german paper along with a check. Newspaper did extensive record collection and they have the written records and reports from one thousand nine hundred seventy seven and nineteen eighty eight and they have all have all the reporting and in fact. There's one where they knew where they knew. Donald trump was considering running for president in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight because evonne had discussed it with her father over the phone. The phones had what we call one hundred percent coverage which means that when when that phone rings from new york city tapes are rolling in a couple of offices always they collected every word that was ever said between yvonne and her father or donald and whoever in that country and so they had extensive amount of information about them. When you build that database. Now you get to build a profile of this person not just what you see not just what you hear you get to cross reference known intelligence that comes from a source. That doesn't think you know it which is like listening to your phone calls. And since i come from the signals intelligence world. Nsa big believer in what we call first person collection. If you tell me everything you're not lying to me because you don't know i'm the third person on the caw either. Tell the other person the truth or you're going to tell the other person alive. But either way i'm going to know both ends of that and then i can exploit you and we can turn that over to other agencies like the cia or whatever so if the check intelligence or collecting on him. They have enormous thousands of hours or of data collection and reports. That are coming from the father who is being very loyal. Otherwise he's gonna get in trouble with the kgb. And all of this is passed onto the kgb which goes into a dossier or folder or safe. That's mark donald. J trump from nineteen seventy seven until suddenly donald trump goes meets the foreign minister of russia in new york city and wants to go to moscow to propose building trump tower moscow in the soviet union so now that guy gets on his typewriter reports that back to moscow moscow's foreign ministry gets a copy and the other ministry the kgb gets a copy and they go get to me the donald trump file and they go this guy. We've been collecting against him since. Nineteen seventy seven. Look at this guy. Narcissistic greedy manipulable. And now what you do. Is you assign a small team of two or three intelligence officers. You know human intelligence officer to do it young baby spies. Usually you wanna get them working on it. Young babies spies like vladimir putin. Who is now you know who's in west germany east germany and his job is to manipulate people become spies but sometimes you don't want him to become spies you're going to let them do what they're doing and keep talking so that you can get another perspective on your enemies and so donald trump initially became essentially a source without him knowing or what we call an unwitting asset. He doesn't know that they're doing this. But then fast forward. He's taking all this money. When russia the soviet union collapsed is russia opens up and the solutions liquidate every government asset. Which is everything from. Every cow was owned by the government. Every taxi every trash can every every apartment in the country was owned by the government. And they all made up falls deeds. Sold them for like you know. A penny on a dollar and then became billionaires in every asset in that country was privatized in a matter of a couple of years and whoever owned those pieces of paper where the owners of them and could resell them for billions. That's what vladimir putin did. To the city of saint petersburg russia also known as leningrad and putin did it using his kgb friends and family and the best the way that he really did it was he reigned in the full time professional soviet makia using kgb tactics to the point where he could go to them and say listen. We're not gonna kill all of you us going. You know you going to war with the kgb is no fun we're going to give you a solid twenty percent. Let you do whatever you want. But you're gonna work for us so there's not. It's not that putin has a stick or a secret. it's that he has a massive carrot. That trump wants more. I think it's a combination of things. I think that putin now. What i'm doing is i'm giving you an idea of how putin became rich. And how all of that. Rich money started flowing to the trump organization because all those dirty russians who were stealing assets had literally dump trucks full of us and european cash and it had the longer it somewhere so they did it by laundering by buying real estate. All over the world. I was just in the village. The town of baden baden germany which was a traditional town for the czars in the eighteen. Hundreds the russians over the last twenty years of coming in essentially bought that city. They were every house that used to belong to. A russian nobility has been bought by an oligarch you know and they they like but they have to spend their money somewhere because it's all illicit so he started buying properties all over the united states in new york city and in miami and in mar-a-lago and all these other places and that's where donald trump fell in love with their money. He knew there was money there before when he wanted. That trump tower one one point. Oh project but now. He's seeing no soviet ideology. Just rich capitalists with boatloads of money and hot women who will get naked in a second that moves you up to the miss universe pageant in twenty fourteen where trump was now introduced to hot women who wanna get naked and then he sat down with the twelve richest oligarchs of russia including a personal representative of putin for two hour private meeting and when he walked out his entire the first thing he said was trump tower is going to be built which would yield him three billion dollars in profit and then he who knows what they promised him. But you have to understand from that minute on his entire worldview right up till this morning with whatever he tweeted was moscow worldview. He was the. It's like vladimir. Putin is now spy master and chief of russia who owns russia who controls the entire oligarchy and every dollar in russia crafted a pair of rose colored lenses for donald trump and using those oligarchs. Metaphorically put them on his eyes at miss universe and so now. Donald trump only sees the world through their tint in that ten always benefits moscow. He only speaks favorably of moscow. Who always it's if you have a bookie in urine debt. Do you ever insult your bookie. No but he but he's not well but he's not in debt to them is he. Well well make more money. In fact our reporting shows that deutsche bank all the loans he got from deutsche bank were underwritten by by oligarchs in moscow. That's one of the most revelatory moments in the book for me that it's a moment when he one of the six moments when he declared bankruptcy and no legitimate land or no american li bank will lend him and deutsche bank comes in and helps him out and you're like burbank is propped up by russian. Wasn't that they came in to help him. All loans have to be underwritten. It wasn't like. Hey you're a swing and guy let's just give you four hundred and sixty million dollars. Someone guaranteed that loan right now. You have to start wondering was that loan guaranteed because someone had been monitoring him and saw him as a national asset that they could use to continue laundering money. Or were they setting him up to where they would under the where they would use him at some future date in american politics and years saying at this point he has gone from unwitting asset to a witting asset. And i start the book off with the very day that he became a winning asset july. Twenty seven twenty sixteen. Which was the day. he said russia. If you're listening. I want you to release all thirty. Three thousand of hillary clinton's emails. The he knew in the mullahs report. Validates every word that i've written in the last three years three books. And they where he do. He was operations being carrying out in his interest and that he stood to benefit from those operations by russia and five hours later. Russian intelligence started attempts to intrude on hillary clinton's server which was never ever hacked is an extraordinary book and especially for folks who really want to understand what's really going on between trump and russia should absolutely read this. There's two more points that i would like because you have a just gigantic wealth of information in one thing that used to do. Perhaps you still do is teach people how to survive being a prisoner of there. Just in case anybody who's listening should ever have the misfortune of becoming a pow. What are the what are the points that you would like them to know how to survive that situation. Well first off if they're your listeners. And they're not in the military and they're not what we categorizes high risk of capture. They won't be a pow There's technical terms three categories of detention. And i'll give you examples of each If you're a civilian and isis comes in a raid through your village and you're in west africa and they take you. You are now a terrorist hostage okay. Same thing is if there's a guy the seven eleven he does what we call the panic hostage-taking and like give me chocolates or i will kill everybody in this store you know. That's a panicked hostage by the way we usually just shoot at that point or you know it's hard to negotiate Terrorists on the other hand. There's a certain subset of behaviors. You had better be trained on before you become a hostage in a terrorist situation because opening your mouth in the first hours of that or days of that is very bad. You never to have that discussion with a terrorist because they are hyped up and they have an agenda and they will kill you because they require generally required a show that they exercise power and control. And that's what we call when they just shoot a hostage is just like well. Listen and i. I was actually the chief of training for the us davies terrorists and hostage survival program and we actually would have these scenarios where students would just be stupid and they were just like. Excuse me sir. And i'm like oh you like to talk you like to talk is sir. I think that we need water in here. And it's like the first five minutes of the abduction. And i'm like bring this one to me on your knees right and then you know. I opened the door and this actually happened. Everything we taught actually happened. And i was simulating the execution of poor robert dean steam and we would say do any of you want a warship named after you and they were like oh yeah that'd be cool i go the only way you're getting a warship named after you is you do something stupid and you get your brains blown out. Why we're dean steven didn't do anything stupid. He was identified as a us navy servicemember. He was bought out and he was executed. But we teach the next person that opens your mouth. You're bringing yourself to the attention of the terrorist. Captor you're gonna get shot so that's terrorist hostage so the next thing saying nothing if you ask direct questions sent answer the questions and before threatened them in the eye unless he unless are generally want you to look down but if they ask you a question if you look in the are what's going to happen is what we call reverse stockholm syndrome where they will affiliate with you and see you as a human if you're constantly looking down look down until they tell to look up and if you look down your an object and they package you as an object they tie you up to where it's easier to just kill you constantly want to try to find opportunities after the first day or so to show yourself as a human like sir any less water sir i need and if they slap you take it as a victory because it's it shows your your they will themselves think about your humanity after laying hands on you so there's a whole school you have to go to in order to survive that and iran that school we also ran the prisoner of war school and that was your military pilot or you're a seal or a marine scout sniper helicopter pilot whatever and you have the risk of being shot down behind enemy lines and captured and that it follows the geneva convention and we teach you all that and we teach you. It's going to be bad when you're captured. That's what they're going to beat you with rifle butts and to take that and just roll along with it and then eventually they'll hand you off to a prisoner facility and then they'll bring in the interrogators and and teach you how to survive all that then. The third category is even more dangerous. This is where you're visiting moscow and you're an ex marine and you've been chatting with men on v. Contact young hot russian soldiers and sailors and the next time you visit moscow A married american men by the way and visit moscow. When you're going to go talk to some of your contacts the fsba russian security stops you at the airport. Puts a hood over your head hog ties. You throws you into the back of a police van. You're in a situation called hostile government detention and that is they suspect. You're a spy and the scenario spelled out has just happened this year to a former marine conservative Who was meeting men on v. Contact and was talking about how he admires. Russia and blah blah blah and. They didn't know whether he was. They didn't know whether it was seduction. Or whether it was tim trying to manipulate people so the minute he landed in moscow they threw his. You know through him right into the back of a truck and they are holding him in captivity. The united states gives them something and funny thing is donald trump has never opened his mouth about this guy and he's not an intelligence asset because we don't work the way that this guy worked We don't just jump onto a plane and take vacations in moscow. Right off from dubai. That's ridiculous he wasn't back backstopped in any way he had no system. No support structure wasn't an intelligence collector intelligent subcontractor but in russia's estimation i need something from donald trump. I will place a little pressure on the united states and we will hold this guy until you know. Maria boutin is on an airplane and flown out of the country. Remember her the nra spy why she so she's now a hero over there but if this guy gets suddenly released it will show you that it was a for tat exchange and they take innocent people all the time and say you are spy. You're doing you're spying here for your spy agencies and you're just like came here for rose and no charles in moscow. Only a spy would look for turtles. Look we have pictures of american spies giving judo's and it's just like okay. It's a lie but it's a lie designed to pressure the us government and the iran does it with iranian american citizens. All the time turkey did it with an american priest You know and russia does it. So that type of detention is neither category. Do we do it. Why would we do that. The only people are people who are spies right because one. We don't have the manpower to ways. Just to snatch the average russian off the street and russia to pressure russia may know why bother you. Want to pressure russia. Slow down there. Import gucci's i mean you know you know tells. Bmw slow the production line. They'll be very mad. Tell me about nine. Eleven for you. yeah nine. Eleven wasn't the greatest day of my life I had been teaching counter-terrorism actually. I've been running this class. This classified program where where we teach people to survive al qaeda and we simulated al qaeda while we were there. And i had gotten out of the navy just six six months earlier. I had that warning been visiting. I had been taking someone who is going to start working for us to capitol hill and i was at Third in pennsylvania southeast and so was about eight in the morning we got there and we re ordering coffees and a friend of mine had called me from san diego and she was talking to me. And you know that spidey sense. Why don't have a spidey sense. I you know. I used to work for nasa listening sense. And i can list. It's called listening through where you can just mentally start filtering out things that are being said. I filtered out the woman asking me for money. Filtered out my friend Was on the phone. And i might ear. We call it shifting. My ear shifted to the television and the words. The first words i heard was well. It appears that a plane hit the building. And there's a fire but we don't know how big it was. Thought what i looked to the right and you see the smoke from the first tower and my first thought was really a clear day. It's a really clear day. And i just thought that's strange and the woman's like star sir you you know five ninety five. I paid her in these. Two coffees will come back into. I took the two coffees. I put them on the table. And i turned around and the guy on. Tv says there's reports of multiple hijackings and in my school. We taught hijacking survival. And i thought nine states skyjackings that doesn't happen as guns. And then i thought no you can bring knives and i thought knives. They'll beat the living. F out you. You know so i was standing there and i put the two coffees on the table. And i'm watching the monitor. And i actually walked up to it and sat looked at it carefully. You know my my. My intel mind was kicking into gear. And then that's when the second plane flies in from the right and goes right through the building and in that instance. I dropped my hand. My mobile phone and i speed dialed instantly. This guy who was my deputy at the terrorism survival school and this guy is now san diego three hours behind. So it's like eight thirty so it's five thirty in the morning right. And i knew what was happening. In that instance airliners as cruise missiles or call era aircraft is weapon system terrorist attack. And i was like these cruise missiles it's qaeda they're getting back at us for this hour keeley cruise missile attack. We did in nineteen eighty eight right and they're using civil airliners cruise missiles and they've got to fly them. They've got to be flying them. You know and my speed dial goes onto this friend of mine who was who had taken over for me at the terrorism school. And if there's any one thing i learned was if there's a terrorist attack call someone who is nowhere near the terrorist attack because you will not phones will jam up you will not get an objective view. And he's in san diego little that i know four guys out of san diego where hijacking another aircraft that is now flying over pennsylvania and so i call him his name's brad and i don't know what to say. I mean i'm not too often. I'm nothing founded. But in this instance. And i knew after the uss cole incident. Where i call them at four in the morning He put his phone on speaker phone on speaker. So i knew to wait for it to go to voicemail. And all i could say for the message because he would hear it and all i could do was shout. Cnn get up get up. Get up get up. And he was just like and he picks up twenty goes. Now come and i'm like set up. Cnn cnn cnn cnn. That's all. I can say what shut up. Cnn he goes up. He turns on cnn. And he's like what the fuck is happening. I get up. Get your shit on goto the skiff. That's are classified facility. Get on intel link right which is our intelligence and i said everyone's going to be calling you all right now. It's about nine ish. I get my two coffees. My friend i go. We gotta go back to the office. We gotta go to new york and she's like why are we going to new york i go. This is the greatest act of terrorism in american history. If not history now. We have no idea that what's going to happen next. I'm just thinking billings gonna have fire or they're gonna have to put it out. It's gonna be terrible and as we're driving down independence boulevard. We stop at the intersection. Where the lincoln memorial is to my right. And i'm looking at arlington cemetery. And i'm listening to npr. And as i'm listening. I see an airplane. Come from the west. And it goes to the marine corps headquarters and the sheraton up near what was known as the navy and expect. Then it's since been dismantled. And i said oh look i sit there rerouting the planes to come from the west and not over memorial bridge right and just as i said that i go okay. It's gonna start. I'm thinking yeah. It's going to bank right over crystal city and go into reagan and the plane just kept going down down down and fireball into the building and i went to the pentagon into the pentagon and i i will never forget what i said that instant my mind went into a global map of the united states starting on the east coast and expanding to the west coast and it went new york pentagon and i said we're under attack rounder nationwide attack. I said hold on. And i jammed it on the floor. Went through the light went right to the crash site. Got out of the car and people are starting to stream out of the pentagon and the whole side of the d. Ring the d ring at the helicopter pad is on fire right and this is before the building collapsed. It just had impact and people are starting to come out like it's like a fire drill like there's a fire there and so i start running out. In the first injured people started coming out. And i saw this woman completely covered dos with a baby and the baby was dust was covered in dust and trained as an emt and one of the things that i learned was crying baby. Good silent baby bad right and so a bunch of people around in the baby was wailing and crying baby. Good okay. i'm gonna keep moving. And as i went down towards the crash site. I said you have to look for what we call point of sanity. And so i started looking around and then i saw this tree and at the tree was where a group of people were bringing wounded people out of the deering right next to the crash site so long story very short. I saw the person who is my personal hero. I mean i've seen a lot of stuff in my entire career in even in wars before. And after i think this person is just the most here rogue person i ever saw and it was a a an woman army uniform. She had her skirt was running around in stockings and she was creating triage there. And then i see the secretary of defense rumsfeld. Come over and she points to a stretcher and him in a couple of other guys are putting a person on a stretcher and they're bringing it over to her and i said oh this an army doctor and i said hey. I'm a senior chief in civilian clothes. What can i do for you. What what do you need done she goes. I need to get these people mobilized. We're to start moving. People out of that building were injured out of that building. And i said okay. I see a marine sergeant and a marine corporal walking towards marine headquarters. And i go get over here. And i go. I need you to form up here into. Rose get their ties off. Backpacks off hats off. We're going to go start stretcher. Teams and those two marines went over there and marines do right they start barking orders and they started people started forming up in the hundreds in lines and i was like hat's off coats off backpacks off rings off right and i said teams of five. Move over here grab a stretcher head to the d ring door and so you know i got that done and we started getting the teams to start moving people out of the building and i found out that the person who is running the triage was a was a was an army. Colonel called lieutenant. Colonel patty who rojo and i found her over at the hilo pad staring into the fire and she was looking for victims around the site and i thought no i saw that plane fly in there and there are jet pieces everywhere around us in next to her leg to to as i was looking down to her left. My right was a six foot disc with the letters in red white and blue of the letter c. from american airlines and then the alert that there was a fourth airplane was coming so that was essentially my nine eleven day and every year. I have pretty solid post traumatic stress on that day. Thanks to malcolm for a great interview and thanks to you for listening. Toray show gives you fuel to power your dreams because you can use your dreams like a rocket ship to blast you into a life. You never imagined you can make your dreams a reality and this show can help. I'm on twitter at tora on instagram. Toray show please leave a review on. I tunes it does help and tell your friends about the show toray shows written by me toray produced by jackie garafolo. Our editor is ryan woodhall. Our photographers are chuck. Marcus in to covington and were distributed by d. c. p. entertainment and we will be back next wednesday with another amazing guest because the man can't shut us down cast powers some of the world's best podcasts. Here's a show. We recommend we're good. Mom's bad choices podcasts. To black single moms living in l. a. The valley to be exact that we keep it one hundred real an unfiltered every wednesday. This is not your average mom. Show no is mommy hacks or complaining about how our kids just hit their sixty month milestone. This is grown folks. Talk that's right. 'cause mama gotta have a life to nothing is off limits as we discuss mental health sex motherhood dating culture and are sometimes bad choices with a range of guests from social activist porn star parents. This is a judgement free zone for moms women and anyone looking for their tribe. Join us your host erica. And mula of good mom's bad choices. Podcast every wednesday on all podcast platforms immense.