68: Parasitic Barnacles, Haunted Murder Houses, and Chriopractic Cults with Brian Koppelman
It's two twenty eight AM in Los feeless, and you're listening tonight call. Hello and welcome tonight. Call podcast reader, strange days and lonely nights. I'm in Los Angeles. My name is tesla. And with me is Molly Lambert and over in New York, we have Emily or Shida, we've had like three LA locations in a while. I just wanna point that out. We've been very coastal bias street. I was just say, I made the decision to, to place us in Los feelers, because we will be talking about the list feels murder house, but I, I realized while I was saying it that Los feel is, is one of the most debated. How do you say that place? Places lows Felise, nobody says to really be that well know if you're driving your navigator, we'll say Los Felices your navigators, navigate. Well, it's either way, argument could be made. However, that's where we are. We are we are there. We are also later in the show. We have very special guest on Brian Koppelman co-creator show, billions on to talk about. The girlfriend experience and chiropractic, two great tastes that taste great together. I mean, up later in the second half of the show. But right now, we have to hit some news, because there's Pinson important UFO news. The ignite call news Memorial Day weekend. So the New York Times reported in the New York magazine followed up with the fact that there have been a ton of navy pilots, or I guess, from twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen there were a number of UFO sightings, by navy pilots between Virginia and Florida off the coast. They didn't go ahead and say that these were extraterrestrials ships, but they couldn't explain what they were, and there were a couple of near misses where planes, almost collided, with them. And there are some details in the New York Times article about how the G force, everyone was freaking out about the g force because decelerating an accelerating are dangerous point. So if you have to decelerate because you almost collide with a UFO, it's not good. Bad is bad. So. Yeah, there there were a number. I think they almost daily fighting Elise and this was the sightings were reported to the advanced aerospace threat identification program, which we've talked about, before on the podcast, very secretive part of the Pentagon that deals with this kind of stuff. What do you guys make of this? Cool's hell. Cently. There's just been so much declassification of all this. Now, we know that there were so much, you know, research and recording being done about UFO's like all along. X-files honest me yet. They were saying they were. Right. Also strange. So these, these sightings, the stops being reported, and I guess that's because the pilots had relocated to, to go hit up is this in Iraq and Syria. So they weren't, you know, the I think there were two pilots who are quoted in the article, and then several others who wanted to remain anonymous, but yes. So there was like this, this year long thing of these UFO's, and then instead of really like digging into it, it was just that the sightings were reported and then left alone for a long time to marinate, and then be discovered by the New York Times and night call. I thought it was also interesting that like the way they described how they moved which sort of sounds the way that you would imagine a kind of yet, Hollywood UFO, and, like the fifties to move to sort of hovering and then loop and leaving like that. I thought it was funny that they described that as being. Like they knew that, that would kill a human for it to write. Funny is. That's the James four pivot and go this way. And that way. It also is like it's weird how the, the behavior of UFO's is so kind of similar in like all of these different tales. I think we like literally a year ago, talked about coast to coast, and the UFO sightings that were reported on an object that looked like a sphere encasing cube. Described that sounds, I mean that sounds like Jodie Foster's thing in in contact. You know, what's also strange. Like, why would there be UFO specifically in this area were fighter pilots test things? But they were like that's why they said they knew it wasn't a commercial or personal drown. Yes. Efforts thought it was drones. And then it turned out. It couldn't be. They were like, but they said it can't be Joan because it's in this area, that's just for like fighter pilots, right? Actus and then it's like, will why with the UFO's go there? We'll because if you were an alien wouldn't you be like Florida Keys? We're. That's a real Jimmy Buffett. Yeah. I enjoy that idea. It seems odd that during a time of like there's so much kind of dramatic news politically, and everything then to slip in the UFO stuff when nobody has the bandwidth to really care. That's part of what makes it feel like we're living in the future that's been the thing about these past couple big like you Afo revelations that it's like, come on. We have too much to worry about you could've told us this. I look. I league. Told us in twenty fourteen when we didn't care about anything. Then we would have been all over it. No. Now, it seems like part of the we're in the end times general feeling that we're getting I have to say, though, the, the best antidote to, like, the kind of, you know, reading this report and trying to figure out what to make of it, and not really like having enough information, but just enough to be like, I love the government is like we don't really know. Right. That's cool. Our whole it's classified. And we also don't know. I read something else about we talked about earlier about Moammar, Omar whom among. Boom among I read like a like a real scientist talking about 'em. Wa wa and being like, oh, we thought it might be an alien spacecraft, because, like we're just gonna find any moment. Right. I was like this guy's a real science, and he really believes this, and then it turns out, maybe there's just more stuff going on than any of us know about. Five twelve twelve fifteen. This week's episode of night, call is brought you by story worth. Father's Day is coming up and Father's Day mother's day. All these great family, holidays are always a great opportunity to get in touch with your family, and remember all the great memories and things that make them special to you and story worth is a great way to keep in touch, and save all these memories and make them a part of your family's life story worth makes it easy and fun for your loved ones to share their stories. With weekly emailed story, prompts questions, you've never thought to ask each other at the end of the year, they'll get their stories bound, in a beautiful hardcover book, strengthen your family bonds and get to know your loved one in a whole new way. So when you join story worth, you get a subscription for someone you love. Each week story worth will send them an Email with a question about their life. They simply replied this Email at their story. All the stories are private and only shared with family that you choose after a year. Their stories will be bound in a beautiful keepsake book. It's a great alternative to social media and other less secure ways to stay in touch with family. In this case, it's all within your family. You can choose the questions and it's a much more personal way to stay in touch with family and record all of these memories. You can also learn things about your relatives, you never knew about stories about their history and, and stories about their childhood that really bring you closer together. So some of the questions you might ask your family on this might be what are some favorite recipes? You remember cooking growing up. What was the first movie you remember seen in the theater? What was it like going to college for the first time? So one of the things I used to love asking my mom. About when I was growing up, especially it was about her. Beatle mania. You know she was a teen. Right. When the Beatles came to America, and it was a big deal. And she even went to go see them in concert and story worth would be a great way for me to kind of get that story from her in a really easy to access way us girl. The questions that I, I always wanted to about what it was like to see the Beatles and concert when she was fourteen years old in Kansas City. It's a great way to just sort of preserve all these things in a way that really stands the test of time. So to join story worth and for twenty dollars off of your subscription visit story worth dot com slash call when you subscribe that story worth dot com slash C. A. L L, it, sometimes it's hard with families being spread out all over the place to get together for holidays and to share those memories together and so- story with a great way to help you bridge geographic distance by providing lively discussion topics that story worth dot com slash C. A. L. L. Twelve nine twenty five fourteen five eighteen nineteen. Here's something really interesting that none of us knew about an Emily found a really amazing. I guess I would call it a scientific blog post. But this is like my favorite thing. I've read in the past month, maybe it is about a barnacle Emily, where I found this, thanks to a night call listener. But I, I went back to try to figure out who sent it to us. And I think overdid deleted the post, but luckily, I still had the tab open. So I could read God, thank you. Whoever you are known to be ashamed of sharing this with us because we definitely wanted to talk about it. It's the best is called the Reizo Sophon barnacle the post, which we will certainly link to on social, if you want to read more about it or know, how to spell rice sufferin it's written in a very narrative style. So. It sort of tells the story of what this barnacle does, which is essentially that it attach. It's attached itself to crabs in this case, a male crab and like undetectable over a long period of time takes over its nervous system. And also turns its reproductive organs in to reproductive organs that create more Reizo suffo- Bon barnacles. So it basically can impregnate male crabs and make them into baby factories is how I put notes. So we stand this. Is read some of this. Yeah, it's great. It's a great host. It's beautiful in this scenario. It's written for male crab. She looked normal once when she was young as a juvenile. She looked a normal barnacle larva only a few millimeters long, but her juvenile body had one terrible difference. Her head was tipped with the needle protruding from her shell when she found you. She used her body like a hypodermic syringe stabbing you and injecting, her own cells under your skin, it goes on. Then it says just when it seems it couldn't be worse, your abdomen explodes. You're now sterile and her go nuts are arising out from where your genitals used to be her to Morris ovaries now attract a male rises cephlon larva, who injects his own cells into her these grow into testicles within her body. She now has everything she needs or next takeover, which is that she takes over your brain. And so you forget that you're a crab and you think you're barnacle, and then you take care of his son of if save. It's so metal. The barnacle. It was so delighted to read them. I know I for one have always thought about how can we weaponize, male pregnancy because if mango get pregnant, if we only had little needles snouts, while the real the real kicker though, is the, the brain, half of it because it's not just that it makes you reproduce this other. She's that you want to take care of them. That is now your now attached to them like that. That's the that's how you really take over. That's how you weaponized practicing. It's amazing. But please go read the whole thing. It's like it's so good. Yeah. Dot com comments we're good. But not they didn't like really give props enough to the writing of this. It was a wild ride aliens are among us, already exactly through the see, like if you found out there's alien the could do that people freaked out, and then you're like, guess what? It exists already species real don't get poked. Don't, don't get poked, one final bit of news, human composting will be legal in Washington state. Oh, it will be like, oh, I'm so excited to be composted. I think it's the perfect solution thrown into the flower beds with myself. Yep. Is this the mushroom suit? No, this isn't lighting. You can bury your body in a flower bed. I think I think it is like a scientifically assisted version of that. I don't think that there's any cremation involved in well as we talked about once before there's a mushroom suit with, like thing they seal you in tune, the mushrooms, take over your body. And that's what Luke. Perry did. That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. Me. Let the bodies hit the earth. Yeah. The bodies hit the earth and make beautiful flower. Would you eat vegetables harvested with your friends ashes, what with my on my enemies know your enemies, but like like someone you love? You eat like the tomato from the I think I'd rather it be someone. I don't know in a way really be somebody that I know I would yeah, what if what if you don't care what kind of person you're getting, and you'll be anonymous, if it's someone I know it's going to like, I'm just going to be sad, eating that to me know if you like giving them one last hug. With my God, God hug. While in far more depressing news, I guess, maybe not life after death. There's the Los feels murder house that we've talked about before on the podcast has once again been placed on the market. It's super it's a weird situation. You guys it is very strange. Curbed LA covered, it the, this house was the house on believe Glen, our in lows feelers, and it was the scene of a murder suicide in nineteen fifty nine a doctor killed his wife attempted to kill his teenage daughter, and then killed himself. It was also not to be confused with the other Los there's many. There's not the first state. Yeah. Refer saying the Lucille's murder house, I always what they're talking about the lobby. Sometimes they turned. Yes. Sometimes this is those feelers murders house, and sometimes it's the murders mansion. Either way it is this is. Known as the one that was basically a time capsule. Because after these crimes occurred, the house has passed to a different family who never moved in the sun, who was the surviving member of that family, who had the house for a number of years, use it apparently as some kind of like just a storage facility for his stuff, which was strange. But it began to attract a lot of people who wanted to look in the windows, because it was rumored that there was a Christmas setup like a tree, and, and presence from back when the crimes were committed that turned out to be false because the doctor who committed the murders was Jewish. And so then it was like, okay, maybe it was the next family, which would place it probably in the seventies, either way, it was, it was a strange untouched weird interior, that then was bought by Gloria allred's daughter, Lisa bloom and her husband three years ago. They wanted to expand it they started renovations. They tore out the whole inside. They tore down to the studs, and then abruptly put it back on the. Market for three and a half million dollars. They're only accepting cash offers, and as I assuming that people would know that it's because it's like filthy with goes. They put out a statement saying, oh, it was we run into all sorts of permanent problems. We wanted to expand the house, but we'd have to read the hillside. It's going to be too expensive. So now we're gonna Lissette at like a million something more than we bought it for and it's torn apart. Go to bring your cash all you nauseous, on, for sure hash who has three and a half million dollars in. Nobody has three and a half million dollars kidding me. Deserves to be. We gotta go to Vegas. Yeah. Make three and a half million dollars in roulette. And then by the Los feeless murder house to be the Nighthawk comp ace, great really don't want to live in that house. I am well under percents. Sure. It's hardee's. They're burn into the ground. I posted about this on Twitter. And we received a call from paranormal, invest, right? Because you were talking about, like if you were to tear, that if it was a total tear down. And you just built another house on that land when the house yet still be haunted. A believe that was your question. Yeah. Because I'm wondering if when Lisa bloom, tried to do the renovations, like was she thinking that she would just raise the house. And for some reason, she just couldn't. I mean, is it really that, like, maybe you have to stay with them? She saw ghost. And she got freaked out. Didn't want go back. We have a night call from Z. Yes. So we have this Email from z and z says, hey, there, I'm Z Portland native and co-founder of all leading paranormal investigations team hell up paranormal investigations and the ghosts in hose podcasts that's hose, of course EA you X onto the questions to start their different kinds of huntings. Residual haunting are usually the ones attached to land and are basically an imprint repetition of a past event that happens on a loop. Okay. But what the fuck does this have to do with ghosts? Well, sometimes we forget that the earth is a living thing, some areas and materials are more prone to absorb energies and others. Radiate them look up the Oman house in Beverly Hills. Residual huntings are fairly common and while they can be startling af. They're pretty benign, and can't harm you an intelligent haunting is when a spirit or and be can off. Often will interact with you small things being moved a knock in response to you ask in the entity to make itself known like the Maitland's from Beetlejuice or the entity from the first poltergeist movie, not all dark entities violent, haunting or demonic a Spar is getting them to leave. I know everyone's first instinct is to grab some sage. But please calm down. Sometimes you literally just have to ask. There are different ways of removing unwanted paranormal guests, but it all depends on who or what is in your home. One in doubt, find a local professional to help you. And if they tell you, they charge for their services, you kick them straight in the taint and tell them to suck your dick, no one should be charging for that. That is blatant horse shit dickering. But this is already an essay. And I can go into that another time or you can listen to go sit hose, and hear me and might be Danielle talk about it, wink. Thank you so much for thousand gray area and good. The Oman house is the house. I believe that was built right by sociale. Dr where the Manson murders. Took place was demolished and the address no longer exists. So the Oman house, I believe, was then built like a, you know, kind of, on part of that land and is haunted land is haunted didn't matter that they changed the address or district. What is happened there? We've said this before, but America's haunted, America's eerie haunted. Yeah. Like there's no part of America were. There were not genocides murders so or burial grounds. Yeah. So I was very interested in what she said in the Email about like being a movie replaying over and over again. Yeah. We've heard that from other specifically Rachel, Rachel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The gas talking about, like you see something over and over again you don't you can't interact with it. Exactly. But it's like a shadow an echo of something right? And then you have to ask to leave. Nicely. I guess I mean I love just asking says no, why would it leave? I mean, that's what's interesting about thinking that goes kind of you give permission Slough, right there in purgatory. And you give them you free them. That's what horror movies. Have talked also case goes from this grisly murder in this feelers and everybody who's tried to develop the house, or model Ed or do whatever with the land being we think scared away by it. I mean most of the time when I've heard like Rachel's, a great example I feel like we've heard several other examples of this, if you encounter ghost or something that feels like some kind of what she's calling, like a residual haunting. It's not most people don't report it being like a scary thing. It's just sort of a like, oh, there's somebody else here type of feeling. So that's, that's my questions. Like why has this been a universally negative experience? Is it just because of the nature? Sure of the death. Is it like is it always going to be that kind of haunting, as opposed to just kind of like benign, somebody's just hanging around, because their life got cut short too soon, or whatever? And this sounds prohibitively bad something about that. I know it's bad. I've driven by. It's bad. Five trust trust the vibe yet. My feel like my husband was league. We should dry and I was just like no we're not going to go back there. I'm so sorry can't go bad ghost. Well, if you've seen any ghosts that you would like to tell us about give us a ni-, call two four zero four six night. That's right. Or you can Email us, and I call podcast itchy meal dot com. We'll be joined now by Brian Koppelman for a little chat. Hey folks, if you love true stories about extraordinary life experiences. We think you'll love the risk podcast risk is the show where people tell true stories, they never thought they dare to share stories to uncensored for public radio on risk, nothing's, too intimate, or too strange. Like the one about the guy who got kidnapped by the drug cartel, or the girl who discovered she was living with a cannibal or the woman who learned the person she was sharing. Kinky fantasies with online was her dear old dad, you'll hear real people sharing about life experiences so funny so scary. So mystifying you won't believe your ears. Find it all at risk show dot com or just search on your podcast app for risk. That's RAS K exclamation point, or risk, hyphen show dot com. We are now joined by Brian Koppelman. He is, of course. First and foremost, a fellow grantland colleague of all of ours from a while back. He's also the co creator of these Showtime drama billions, which you may know of may have heard of. And he also wrote and cowrote many films, cluding rounders cluding, the girlfriend experience, which were fans of here high fron, welcome to call so happy to be here with you guys. Yes. Grantland alum. Just ask just throw. Yeah. So you've been working on this very New York Centric, money Centric, like finance world Centric show, which I think is so interesting after having come from writing girlfriend experience, which is such a like, I don't know it feels like just like this Ordonez story of like the world that billions takes place in now away. Yeah. Feels like you're, you're the financial crisis. Girlfriend experience came out of trying to understand new kind of transactional relationship that had. Supposedly top notes of empathy and intimacy attached to it, and David LeVine, my, my lifelong create partner and Steven Soderbergh. The three of us came up with that because we were all at we were at a hotel, the Mandarin Oriental hotel together in Columbus circle. And. We were down in the bar area and notice this older dude with this college looking beautiful sophisticated girl who was clearly working him. And Levin of Hanley said that girlfriend experience and it was clear because we need that bar at that time this stuff was going on. And Stevens said, what are those words? And we said, well, there's this. There's this new movement going on where disservices being sold that has a facsimile of intimacy and then Stephen started talking about all these relationships that are like that now. Right. The broker relationships the relationship you'd have with a trainer or your yoga teacher. And as we all started talking about it. We realized that, that this was a way to tell what seemed like one story, you know, there's very little sacks in the movie, and we will tell a story that seemed like one thing that was really about something else. And so to me that idea of telling story that seems like it's one thing at first and this about something else. Is the story is what we do on billions for sure. And so I see connections in that way. I'll say a huge difference, is that the girlfriend experience is largely improvised movie. It's the only largely improvised movie that David and I- wherever involved with whereas billions is tightly tightly scripted do that. Well, how when you write something that, you know, is going to be largely improvised later. Like what do you do that? You're, you're doing an incredibly detailed Allen, also, David is one of the stars girlfriend experience. He's the screen right? He plays the screenwriter. Yeah, yeah. With whom Sasha starts relationship. So then Dave would have some measure of control in a way. And Stephen, you know, that was an art movie made for very, very, very little money when Stephen was experimenting a lot and he's genius. So we've built very comfortable because Soderbergh such genius working in that way. We did it incredibly detailed outline where you. Right. Not just what the scenes can be about. But sort of in a granular way what should be covered what everybody wants in the scene. And then Stephen Dave, and everyone's there to sort of make sure that goes, the right way. Also, Stephen at this idea to cast real people. So the trainer the kind of star the other star of the movie along with Sasha Chrysanthou was a trainer in New York. We knew and so you're basically telling Chris, this is what has to happen in the scene, but speak say what you'd say Stephen didn't cast any actors from Sasha was the only professional actor right in that film. And I don't think Sasha was in sag, right? Yeah. I'm in now, she is. But I don't think it was in sag done was it? Shot on digital. Yes. Stephen shot on the red Cam. I remember being I love. I love all those digital early read about here. He's been a red for a long time. Well, I loved it too, because, like I was the person I feel like I'm only an tonight were all in film school, right when it was switching over. And so people were very firmly divided into camps of either like you're shooting on film, or you're shooting who's class divide. But yeah, I was always like the people like why wouldn't you shoot on digital like explore the possibilities of digital on Soderbergh? Always treat. Oh, whatever. The new the new thing is he's like finding the way into it. Yeah. Knows knows what, what's worthwhile. And what's next man, he is a brilliant. Filmmaker we got to make like three movies with them and learned more from him than from anybody else really. It's such a great time capsule. I would encourage anybody who's listening who hasn't watched it lately or maybe hasn't seen it at all. It's such a I watched it, maybe a year ago, or maybe a little bit less, and it's such an incredible time capsule of two thousand eight takes place over the election, the Obama election and it's just like it's just like, plopping you right back down, and we also we can move on. But yeah, we interview what was incredible about that was the other thing that you can do that sort of thing. Try to get as much of the world depicting, right and accurate so that it's easy for the people to improvise within it. So David, and I interviewed maybe forty two thousand dollar an hour escorts with Stephen there most of the time, and they would just tell us everything about what that life was like. And then. To have Sasha who wasn't a prostitute, but was a sex worker in a way, there just immediately gave the thing, the promoter of legitimacy because Sasha had had experienced having to manage these transactions herself such a complex, psychological, you know, proposition to just feel you have to manage all these people. But also look like you're not managing that, like, yeah, she's amazing because I mean Sasha so smart. And the fact that she sort of from the beginning of her career was aware. Okay. I have this tool kit. I want certain things out of my life. I actually see a path to do something in a way, nobody's done before. And, you know, she looked at what Jenna Jamison had done and realized, I'm not saying, Sasha and realize, like wait. I think I'm smarter than she is. I think I understand media because I'm I'm a generation after watching what she did. Yeah. I think I can actually use this, too. Propel myself, you know, I'm also going to be honest about what I want sexually, and then I'm going to use it in a way to gain momentum and throw myself into this other career, she's a really important DJ now. And she's a great DJ. I feel like she and Emily have the same taste. Most flattering things that anybody ever told me was Molly on. You saw her once I think it sin family. And you said you thought she was me at first. Thank you. She's about, like two feet shorter than me. But thank you, awesome. So I think that the amount of what that movie was the fact that Sasha ended up being able to ride all this to this place in the culture that I think, only Sasha grey occupies. Nobody else is like her who has a million followers, or however many on across insta-, and Twitter, but manages it without really now any posts that have sort of anything to do with her sexual image, she's sort of transcended in a way that everyone knows it. It's all part of who she is. It's incorporated, but she's she's been able to sort of move forward, just fascinating. I think that's a very common thing. Now that it sort of doesn't matter what you get notorious for as long as you use it as a platform. Right. Because that's also like the Kim Kardashian thing, obviously, not that she uses. As a great platform or anything, but just sort of the idea that like it's part and make your it's all in the game. Yeah. And now everybody is in the transactional economy, so that movie is also very proud about that. I was going back and looking because tests, I think you brought it up on our last episode the, the cut article that Jane Marie posted about how to like make like what side hustles you can do to like. Yeah. They took down. Yeah. You posted that they took down. They get they took. A lot of those are also said, don't sell your hair. They change it all it was just it was such a mess that post it. If you wanted a really great summary of how depressing the economic landscape is right now. It was a perfect. Nothing's more depressing right now than aspirin journalism. Magazine like a lot of the things on it. Were they weren't even like full-blown services? It wasn't like become a housekeeper or I guess I was dog Walker on there. A lot of it was just like. Yeah. Sell off aspects of yourself like your voice like do right over work on fibers something. It's like finding ways to like, sell your kid kidney or what? Yeah. Which you can't really translate into a second career so well compared to sell your kidney once it's the problem. Only really sell your hair, then you have to wait for your hair to grow back before you can sell your hair again, kind of a flaw. It is a fly. I mean, the whole thing was very flawed or if we figure out how you regenerate kidneys over and over. Sure. Where the money is. Grow and kidneys impossible kidney. We wanted to take a night Email while we had Brian in the room because it turns out, we have a, a chiropractic experts ledge enthusiasts in our midst. I didn't know. Yes, we have an Email this week from cocoa. Hello night. Call a while back you discussed if chiropractic medicine is bunk occult at cetera. I do enjoy having my back cracked by professional. But there is definitely a cult connection with a certain subgroup of the field. I moved to the bay area about a decade ago and met a longtime live journal friend who lived in San Francisco, she commented on growing up in a chiropractor cult in Sacramento. Her parents were apparently heavily involved in this group that was super into energy work in chiropractic, healing a couple years ago, another friend asked if I was interested in temp job, she had done previously, it was working reception. At a chiropractors office, when I met the boss, she was a super friendly, thirty something woman who had gone to Cairo school. But what she practice she explained with something called network spinal analysis in network. You are rarely physically touched sessions or called. Entrain -ment, it seems to have a lot more in common with Reich raking. I've read it a million times. Never said it out loud. You lie on a massage table in a room with two to three others. Something about communal energy and people, frequently scream or shout or cry. I once had my boss told me to imagine breathing through a hole in my back like a whale. Okay. So a little weird. They offered me free sessions while I worked there, which was great because it was wildly expensive recommended three times a week and rarely covered by insurance. My boss gave me a workbook written by Donny. Epstein, the founder of network and encouraged me to come to the annual conference that summer after I'd been temping a couple of weeks. I saw my friend from Sacramento, I told her about this weird chiropractor. I was working for. And she was like, dude. That's the fucking cult, I told you about. She was a little freaked out to hear it agreed to entertain -ment sessions. But understood that I was not on board with the worship of Donnie the weirdest thing is that I've struggled with back pain and posture for a long time. And I had measurably better posture during the few months, I received network care. No idea how it worked. Good night. Cocoa. Thank you. Cocoa. Seems like a big San Diego thing. She's at those in San Diego. Right. Or San Francisco, I think it was, we'll her friend was in Sacramento, California. Right. California rooms, Donny Epstein one, really. What happened? Talking about this. I'm just looking it up and I'm I'm gonna go on eighty nine percent. Sure. I was in a room with them. What how did you arrive in that room? If I say, I was around someone in the self help field who I don't want to name at the moment. Okay. And I believe you have seen was there as well. And they were talking about this energy healing stuff. So Ray key Rakia is when you put your hands over somebody, but don't touch them energy healing. I believe there's this book that if you all haven't read or talked about, on the show, it's so up your alley. It's called like the full facts case on cold reading, and it's written by this British guy, and it's expensive to get, but it is. He goes step by step with every single aspect of how cold readings are done. You know, which is the my leading thing, and the way in which we're all susceptible to it, why we're susceptible. How were tricked and in it? He goes through every single technique, so that if you say, no, no, no. But what my friend said, it's in the book, like all the techniques and all of this stuff, so chiropractics separate because there's utility to certain kinds of, of chiropractic given this have there's a lot of thought in my life. And I think now if you're in, you're listening, don't hate me. This is just my personal truth. I'm sure your personal share our personal. Sure. Your personal truth is, is different and chiropractic, is incredibly healing when it's for purpose if, if you if you need to get your back crack because for various reasons and you feel better, and it's there for you. That's great. Yeah. But Rakia this kind of supposed- energy. Healing is all about the emotional thing that happens to you. It's like you know, somebody can sit down across Mathare for the first time and merely being in that setting. You just crack. Yes break. Yeah. That's what it sounds like happened to Emily with acupuncture. Sweat a bunch. But that's a legit like that's thing, right? You're in this environment created for you to have catharsis. Yeah. And we need a society that we demands, we have to find moments of catharsis moments of relief. And we need ten release created, like permission structure to let ourselves have that space. Even if that's all it is. That's right. I had back pain really bad back pain for a period of time, but kind where they x-ray you, and then say take cortisone shots and do all the stuff. And so, I started reading John Sarno books healing back pain, which Howard Stern talks about a lot and I and in those books he talks about a year. All these different therapy, and why you don't need them to get better. Fact what you need is to give yourself permission to get better. And that if you do you can most of the time. And so do I believe it's called people were cult. What do you guys think like I meditate? Right. I do TM. Right. You only have to scratch a little bit for people to start talking about why. It's occult. Now I'm gonna practices it. There's nothing cold. I've never been approached in any way. Cults. We were talking on TM is so expensive. My issue with TM is that it's, you know, when you read the responses because they respond on, like message boards and stuff to accusations that it's so expensive that, that makes it suspicious. And a lot of the TM, you know, social media team will say, well, we really wanna make it acceptable to all so we have like a lower tier, but it's still love the, you know, about the TM social you I was real I was looking into TM. But I felt like it was prohibitively expensive in a way that made me very suspicious of it. You know people love it. You can practice it for free you kind, but who's gonna give us the David Lynch foundation. So I had this huge skepticism. I remember the first time I went when I feel like I really need something like this, and I spoke to Bob Ross, like the famous guy who runs the David Lynch foundation. He's sort of head of TM in a way, and I said, I think you guys are maybe a cult or you were, and I've also just talk to me purely scientifically, and then read all the stuff about the. Jeez. And I read books and what I have found out, and it seems to be this seems to be true undocumented it like you can find it as they do, give away, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of TM lessons year to veterans school kids in at risk areas. I do think that they largely amount expert on this. It seems to me they largely use the money to do a lot of good the David Lynch foundation in particular. I don't know about TM at large, and they definitely I've seen them, give people a break on the price when people need it. They have to train these teachers and it is for me highly therapeutic, right? Whatever that, whatever that means it helps it's helped me be less anxious. And it's helped me creatively. So, yeah, it's a mode that you respond to at least like a motive station or sent train, or whatever watched Penn and teller bullshit about chiropractic because I will watch. Sub supplication it, which is I think people should look it up where they talk about sort of, like by doing the chiropractic modality, they can make your digestive system, better. Or they can make this mostly. It's all trapped in the sub. Sub session is how it gets batter. That stuff's just to me bullshit, and rather than just saying, hey, this is a form of physical therapy that can make you feel better. Right. Which then it's fine. It's useful for sports medicine. It's a good sports medicine chiropractor. Yeah. It's like I think it's like there's a need maybe to science scientific it a little bit for people who don't believe in that kind of, don't just accept the basic premise that, if you let yourself lie down on a table and let somebody just like take care of you. Second sounds like one thing that it's not. But this is the thing like going back to networks final analysis. I found an article from the LA times from ninety two and it says network uses light touches and taps rather than jarring aggressive manipulations, the back cracking standard many chiropractors offices, the tops often leaf patients crying, laughing yelping or shaking as they re experienced traumatic events. I've tried my guts out on the table says singer-songwriter Rozan cash, it's incredibly powerful. It's been life changing for me. My body, definitely feels better. I definitely have more energy. So it's basically I think that's Johnny cash's daughter, by the way, right? Yes. Exactly. And it says it is. I object, though, hold on. I have to object to object to defining Rosanne cash that way. No Rosanne cash. Really one of the most successful songwriters saying. No, you are. Right. Right. Yes. She put the trio like as good at making music as anyone of she's incr- truly. I'm more surprised that she was involved with, with this back organization. Yeah. Apparently, it was it was very, very trendy in nineteen ninety two enough so that they referred to it as a celebrity. I mean, that's my belief is that a lot of these health, self help movements are really about, like networking, just. I just paid her autobiography Roseanne's. I'd say Rakia does not figure heavily. Whatever that. Thing we were we were talking about last call kind of about, like, what defines a cold weather. It's behaviors or whether it's the actual belief and the workings of the religion or whatever it may be. And it feels like I think that TM is probably a good example from what I understand a good example, one of these things that gets called a cult because of the practices, and because of kind of the trappings of it, and the way that it looks and less so about how the how the group actually functions what like doesn't mandate. I mean, I don't write. It might have been a different, right? Or the like Maharishi school, or whatever might be a different kind of thing. But yeah, I mean these people all did train with the are they all train with him and everything the ones who are currently running. TM and I it, it's one of these things like there's a utility in the practice. And then I, maybe it's my own failing I and proxy and all this stuff. This is another interesting thing about all these things like maybe Roseanne knew this guy, Donny Epstein, and I found proximity makes all of us just to live in our moral stances, and when you are close to somebody or know, them or seen them in a different way it makes it harder for you to judge sometimes because we are we want to be empathize. We want to understand. We want the best people. I'll say the practice of TI has been incredibly useful for me. And for many, many, many people, I know and they've never asked me to do anything. But then I don't know never asked me because I, I have I have a microphone and I have a big platform, and they know I would start talking about it, right. Or is it because that's just not what they do or you don't maybe project, the need for it the way that other people. Might come right to it. I also I know Bob for a long time, and I believe that Bob and David Lynch are fully. Their intentions seem quite true and pure to me. But you're right. I think you're right, that people just need a room to cry in. Yes. And that whatever form that takes whether it's talk therapy, or, you know, yoga or TM or anything that just allows people to like be vulnerable in a space that is something everybody needs. And something that probably takes place, a religion for people who, don't who aren't religious. Yes, I'm so yeah, that you just gave me the name of my next podcast room, cry. That is because people always say to me on my. People always say to me I feel like but of room to cry has really good pass name. Isn't that what they all are brought up Howard Stern? I think that's why Howard Stern get such good interviews because people are on. Yeah. Especially when you're yeah. Now we're all on Mike. Yeah. Gotta use your voice in someone. Well, that was an excellent plug, Brian seamless for the moment, which everybody should listen to. And yet you're still, you're still you're not on hiatus or anything like that. You're still in middle. Okay. Great. So check out the moment on itunes. I assume all. Suspects watched billions on Showtime anything else to plug nothing. Okay. Nothing just him. If you think you need it. Yeah. I want to get out. Can you give our night call listeners a mantra if they don't want to spend money on him? Fremont. Eighty two mantra. No, you. In. No, I'm not. Because you have to learn how to do it. Yeah, I can't. Three three you the freebies. It's not a find one within your snow. Not at the level that they're called. It's a sound. It's a sound non nonsense sound word that you repeat over and over to yourself, but I also don't wanna send somebody off doing it without. I mean, you know, you do do I'll say an hour and a half with a teacher before you pay. Anybody anything where they talk you through the whole thing? Right. Then or Electra, then if you want to do it, you take an hour lesson with the person. And then you come back for three more days of three more hour long sessions. And then that's it, then you're, you know how to do it, and then they, then they ask nothing more of you. I mean you do sign a few things about what to do with your income for the rest of your lives, and how they're going to get it. Of course. I don't feel that that was an invasion. Really? I signed it. No. I mean, there's no that ain't right? Right. That's it. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Right. Ryan my pleasure. Guys, take care be. Well. As a ways give us a night. Call about chiropractic about the gig economy about anything at one two four four, six night, or give us an Email at night. Call podcast at dot com. You can also follow us on social media are Twitter is night. Call pod Instagram and Facebook or both night call podcast. And also, we would love if you had support our patriot on it. He dot com slash night. Call we're getting pretty close to a goal of two thousand dollars a month at which point, we will have a live college hoop.