Dr. Jane Goodall
Walker the PODCAST NUMBER. Ten Sixty two. This is a very special episode. Today is Earth Day that this is going up April twenty second so I am putting up this podcast with Dr Jane Goodall which I recorded yesterday and she. We did video conferencing. She's in the UK right now and it was. It was an incredibly inspiring and meaningful conversation with her. She is such a beautiful soul just turned eighty six a couple of weeks ago and and busier than she's ever been. I think one of the things that so incredible is that when you're talking to her because we could see each other. Obviously it's you can see the empathy that she has for literally all living creatures and you can see it in her eyes and one of the things that she goes back to that we talk about in. The podcast is that she is just lives in the moment. She's incredibly present and you can see the presence and you can feel it and when she's talking to you she's really focused on you and it was. It was really incredible. This will go down as one of my all time. Favorites we Had A little technical glitch at the top because we were trying to for some reason. The software was muted on her end. So you know at the top of the podcast when we're talking about like oh you're you're you're not muted. We can hear you. We can hear each other that that's what that is but she was just so great. She's promoting her new documentary on NAT. Geo which is available now. It's called Jane Goodall the hope and so. Yeah so go go watch that Lydia and I watched the other night. It was spectacular. I mean seriously the things that she has accomplished and you know she just does things. She doesn't when you know when constantly she's taken pads in life if people have said Oh. You can't do that. That's not possible. And she she just does it anyway. She figures it out and she proves them wrong and she does that. Because it's something that's important to her and it's important to the world so I highly recommend you watch the documentary after you after you listened to the podcast and you know we and also she's just so sweet you know we Afterwards we were talking like after we finish the podcast about you. Know I'm I'm GonNa make a donation to the institute. I was inspired to make a donation to our institute after we talked. And by the way if you WANNA learn more about the work. She's doing or the work her institute is doing or the the the program for children roots and shoots that she started. You can go to Jane Goodall Dot Org. So we're talking about pop culture and sort of television and stuff and she said Oh. I don't really don't really have time to go see movies. I if I do watch. Tv It's usually like nature documentary. But if I really want to relax I watch Agatha Christie or Poirot and it just it just seemed so perfect so wonderful and anyway. I sincerely hope that you enjoy this. Podcast as much as I enjoyed having the conversation and that it that it inspires you a in a myriad of ways in the last thing I'll say is that in one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven. Yours truly was a contestant on celebrity jeopardy the first question that I buzzed in on and got right. She was the scientist who lived in the forest with the chimpanzees to study them. Who is Jane Goodall? Yes so it all came back around twenty three years later. It's possible I'm reading too much into the connection of that at any rate. I'm very proud to say that this is the ID ten episode number ten sixty two with Dr Jane Goodall Ice Protocol Feverishly Typing. Like maybe it's a preference in a setting or trying to trouble shoot. You got it to work. I'm so glad loves sonny. I've got a thing which was before the aim news so I am not before. That's what I'm used you know. Technology is supposed to make our life simpler. It just complicates things over time. How are you doing? Oh I don't know I don't know I've never been a busy in my entire life NAPA. Which is ironic considering that. You probably aren't leaving your assuming you're not leaving your house a whole lot. Not just walking the dog that he minutes among morning-till-night doing video messaging and Hud causing interviews and skype sends zooms doesn't stop. Do you prefer the nonstop travel or do you actually find that? You're weirdly busier this way. My busy this way you know having to be with it onto questions and think of messages to send out whereas on the lecture tour okay this lectures and there's an interview here this interview but in between you know and the plane journeys if you want to you can just do nothing rights anyway. I'm still alive and I will buy you. I'm good you know. We're we're very fortunate. We you know we have the things we need. We had just gotten a puppy a couple of weeks before the quarantine. So we're very focused on him in. So that's that's been that's been really nice. What's a good what's a good I? I noticed that a lot of your lectures. You do some chimpanzee greetings. What's a good chimpanzee greeting? Who who who and does that specifically mean something? Do you understand that that means this is me Jane? They will have different pantsuit really the distance greeting so when they're in proximity they essentially let each other know. This is me. Don't kill me that. That's from Faraway Fuel. Concept you go. Wow Mr h with me. You know my mental mascot all look at him. Yeah where did he come from ninety five years old now? He's being to sixty five countries. Gosh it is that basically the piece of home that you take with you everywhere. This was given to me by Michael Berry own. Who Lost his eyesight? Twenty-one thought he was giving me a stuff chip I made him who the tail he said taking with your new new. I'm with you in spirit. He goes hupa diving cross country skiing. Skydiving taught himself to paint a while. The most amazing portrait of Mr Age Louisa only above Felton. That's incredible and so Mr h accompanies you to all the countries at everything by simple being dominated the human spirit. Well I just seen how much normally travel that. You're literally three hundred days a year. You're traveling I. I'm watching the documentary and there was a brief moment where you said you know. I believe it was in the UK. Your home there were that okay. This is home but do feel a sense of home anywhere you ever able to. You know it'd be the pre quarantine Arab Able to feel a sense of this is the house I grew up in. It was my grandmother's house. We came here on my sister. I came here and the war when five This where I grew up the books I read this child have with made the trees outside I used to climb and my roots my sister lives in competently with family and I come between was from what the it looks like you. Just have this really sweet attic space with Blake with a bed right next to a window is that is that accurate. I am now. Wow Oh yeah. I can see the book shelves and all the pictures and everything. It's astonishing to me that I think the thing that struck me a lot was your mom's seemed like she was an amazing woman because it seems like she was incredible because it seemed like you know in the nineteen forties. She was encouraging you to do things that were not generally things that women were thought to do. And she seemed like she encouraged you to pursue your passion but also warned you like this is going to be a lot of work it. Can you just sort of talk about having that influence in your life at that time in the context of that because it seems pretty remarkable when it is the thing is I was born loving animals and I had a mother who supported me so when I went and a half and she found a whole lot of worms in my bed she said Jimmy Hope to say wondering? How do they walk without legs at Getting angry she just said I think we put the model they might die and then it didn't get angry when I disappeared for four hours staying on a farm in the country even though actually called the police officer four hours house waiting for him to land egg so no things like that and then when I dreamed to. Africa was eight no ten anytime at two little ten Iran toss NBA. And that's when my dream began will go to Africa. Live with wild animals and write books about them not thinking of being assigned to. Coast to coast women. Want in fact. Nobody was going out living with animals writing books about them in the wild so everybody laughed at me. Don't money was raging Africa's faraway you'll just ago. That mom said if you really want this. Yes you didn't have to work very hard. Take advantage of every opportunity. And if you don't give up maybe you'll find a way so you know. She supported me right through also difficult times. I mean the the idea that it just seems like there was the perfect cocktail for you to be the perfect person to do all of these things. Because it's not it's not only the commitment and the science but also they're such humanity behind at least how it seems that you approach the world and time after time they're all these obstacles that seem like most other people would give up or that you're doing things that are sort of revolutionary in the field and people are going know that you can't do that you can't do that but then something about you just keeps marching forward in a very calm but confident way and so was that was that innate. Did you have to learn that or was that something that your parents instilled in? You know it was just in eight. I mean I'm obstinate. Stubborn dealing even more like a Russian doll not me over spring up again the more that some of these males scientists. They're all men by then really in my field. Not Quite but most of them in the mall that they criticized the more. I thought well. My mother taught me if somebody disagrees number. One listen to them because maybe they bought some points you though talk but if you still think that your right of Brighton them then you must have. The courage appeal conviction to me. That that idea though of listening to people even when you don't agree with them is seem so antifa nickel to what our culture is right now. Which is you know we. We live in a everyone lives in their own little confirmation bias bubble in anyone who doesn't agree with that is the enemy and I was just so moved. I guess just like this you know and I my hope. Is that part of what people take away from you and your message in your work and your documentary is exactly what you just said which is like even if you don't agree with someone listen to them because how else can we find common ground. Or how else can we determine which direction we're GONNA go in or even hope to do good if we're slashing and also you know I've discovered the snow point hammering in here rhyme cutting the heart and the only way I've found to get the hardest one to take a little moment to have a feeling for who you're talking to you know. Is there a link to they have a child at dog or something? And then try and get to the heart with stories. So I'm I don't think I've ever been. You're a bad person. You know you change your ways if Bob Blind I. I was born that way. I couldn't do that. I'm not made to do that. But even befriending people that you know and getting companies that that the traditional activists are go. You can't work with that company. You shouldn't talk to that person. I love the idea that you say. Well can't but can't we get them to see like fighting with them isn't going to help. Can't we just be human with them and show them get them to change? Get THEM TO CHANGE. Course get them to invest in the environment get them to invest in animals and that feels like such a radically different approach. Me Work you know and you can't get a lot of animal rights people stop talking to me when. I sat down with the with the people in the medical research. How can you sit? Is it if you don't talk to people? How can you possibly expect their inge right snow good pointing a finger saying stop wrong because they came to find ways of telling you you're wrong but that ultimately go in through and showing films and educating like you were able to gain access to the educate people to effectively? Do you wanted them to do which was to stop. You know the certain kinds of of research I mean it. Do you ever feel a sense of? I was right or do you. How do you sort of keep pride and ego out of the equation when you're trying to accomplish things because that can be such a dangerous thing with people? It's easy the so much less to do. I mean you know. What am I accomplished out of what I would like to accomplish out here is probably that you really think that? Yes me Research labs. We still got people burning fossil fuel. We still got forest disappearing. We still got climate crisis. We still got people not realizing that it's our what we're doing to animals in the environment that led to this pandemic as was predicted by science years and years ago. And you know so the so much to educate. That's why my roots in to the program for us to me is probably the most important thing because mega carry on. When I'm gone will yes and also the idea that it can be difficult to change in adults mind but it's not difficult it well some yes. I mean sudden people a person. Your country wouldn't even try to change his mind. What might I do see of mine? Nervous people if you if you broach some right. I tell you I was in a cab driver. I knew I was in Iran to that. May All the way to Heathrow. You'll like my assist. She does stuff with animals. Zoli stopping people blog our Madonna. So I told him. Stories told him about the gyms that told him how we're helping people in. Africa didn't make any difference when we go Heathrow. He didn't have changed and he me ten pounds so I said if it till Sista. I didn't think he got back after two weeks. That the promise that one. Thank you so much for your donation to what did you do to my brother. I mean normally. I wouldn't have noted always was trying and he's seen three times to help me volunteer the rescue center. My Gosh and that's just from talking listening to people. Yes telling him. Stories so was any of this cultivated with. I mean wh when you're living among chimpanzees you obviously must have had to be very empathetic and very acutely aware of them. Did any of that teach you how to deal with people better? Well I think. Probably my mother tool in the first place but you know the weird thing is when I finally got to Cambridge until it was held. I've done everything wrong. Empathy wasn't supposed to be part of science. You've got cold and objective and according to me. That's what's wrong with science and I think his name. Because if you have empathy than you intuitively think well. I believe he or she is doing that. Because then you can use science to find out if you're right but without the embassy might never get a moment and where do you think that comes from? Why has that been? Is it because they feel that emotion gets in the way clouds thing you know in the we're talking about the mid sixties when I went to Cambridge to do a PhD? Never having been to college by the way I think the animal behavior it was a news new branch of science and they wanted to make into hard science which it can't and shouldn't be of. It's changed now definitely changed. How did you know when you first got to Gumby? How did you know oh I can interact with these chimps? And they're not gonNA tear my head on like. How did you get that confidence or understand? What was what was the first moment when you first interact with them where you knew. Oh I think I'm going to be okay. I think I think I can do this. I never never thought that I couldn't do it. I was afraid they wouldn't be time. We only had six months start with the chimps runaway runaway runaway runaway. And you know then. Fortunately one chimpanzee. David Greybeard began to lose his fear. And he's the one I so fishing for termites using making tools and that brought in the National Geographic. They said okay. We'll county on funding. The research amazed sent you. Go back to Phil. That's what took story of the chimps runs the world. Scientists had to believe what I was saying. Finally when they saw the film as well as reading my descriptions they had to believe it right and when you came back and started did you come back and start lecturing immediately. Did you have to potty was symbol? All of this data at the time just Cambridge all I had to do was right lane thesis. I had a fabulous of supervisor robitussin. He was one of the talk to truly animal behavior people of the time and he actually came to. Gumby many really realize what's right and he helped me to put all my crazy new ideas in such carefully thought scientific way that. I couldn't be criticized by the scientists and I love that I love thinking do something logically thinking through. Yeah but if that means that then what does this mean in how the two link together something that absolutely fascinates me right but it seems like you're superpower communication like of all the amazing things you've done communicating seems to be like your real superpower because even this idea documentary? Where you you know the idea of what has to be about the head and the heart. That's not an easy balance for most people. Some people are either one or the other but somehow not only do you have is balanced. But then you're able to communicate that to scores of different types of humans and non humans at the same time so where when you're approaching a different person each time what do you see what do you think are you thinking. How do I unpack and communicate to them? Do you have one approach for everyone? Is it specific to each person? Specific comes from the moment it comes. I think this you know talking to you. I get the sense of who you are as we talk. I never Well prepared roughly. What you're going to say in the points you want to make but it various like I don't know a gift I was born with it. I was born Republican my Welsh ancestry. And how do you maintain a sense of calm and patience when especially the work? You're doing not only so important to you but to the world and you know that a lot of people are just stubborn. And for whatever reason just aren't gonNA listen and you come up against people. I'm sure who just have a wall up. How do you maintain your patience in? How do you maintain your calmness in those moments? I don't know I mean I conned on so there's deep philosophical questions about myself because it's just who I am in. Fortunately that's who I am. I mean honestly it's on. May sound stupid but I feel I'm on a mission and I'm here for a reason and so I suppose that helps am very good at living in the moment so when I'm talking to you now I'm talking to you. I'm not doing anything else right. You know and also if you really have done your best and I think this came from if you really really tried and Daniel Best Still doesn't work. You can't go on heating yourself right but I feel like that's not a very common. That's not a very common trait anymore. You know there's so much stimuli in the world that it feels like were just overloaded all the time. I don't even know if we're able to process everything I don't. I refused to have a cellphone. I don't have one really not even just a backup for safety. Oh I'm going off on a thing I better just have just encamped case Little Clam. Shell and I use it on. Nobody knows the number. I don't remember a repeat of the number. My sister and the two people who organized tour run. I Like I'm here at this airport. Are where are you when my sister's meeting that but that's all I use it and what's interesting about that? Is that when you're talking about being in the moment of removing yourself from all of that other extraneous technology stuff? I I would imagine allows you to be in the present as much as possible. Try I mean. Of course I have email to do right now video messaging but that's very different from continually like people just hooked onto their you know ascending little texts. Tweet sorte long. Do you think you would be addicted to it if you if you started getting into it at all not my thing one of the things that the other thing that struck me was just sort of a. I guess just an acceptance of life issue. Which is that each time. You came up against something that you wanted to solve. You realized Oh in order to solve in order to solve the problem the chimps we have to talk about the culture and the environment and the earth and it just feels like it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. So how do you not get overwhelmed? I mean actually. It's grown so much one obvious thing leading to another is. That was all carefully planned out. You know I flew over Gumby. Nineteen ninety nine to what had been part of a great forest belt across Africa. A tiny island trees and hills obvious. If we don't help the people we contact gyms that traveling the world learning about all the terrible things. We're doing to the planet in spite of this brilliant intellect. We have not surprising. Young people were losing hope and that led to the roots and shoots program which is helping young people understand if you actually take action. Now do your thing you know that. Thousands of other young people are doing that they they knew. Stop being able to think globally so when people say think globally Ackley Sarong way round. You think globally or depressed on help never thought of it that way and I also the idea that when people feel hopeless most people. Just sit in that whereas you have this idea of like okay. I don't see hope so I'm going to create it. I have to create the home or seek it out. I guess it's my signature now. Hope giving hope Said to me when I first began talking to them out these for high school students. You've compromised our future. Meaning adults is generations unless nothing we can do. We have compromised stone. We still stealing it except right now. It stopped the as clean and you can see the stalls eaten in the cities but they didn't agree with them when they said there was nothing that could be down. So that's when route suits began. An you know its main message. Each one of us make some impact every single day. Just in the little choices we might run. That's that gets people I mean. So many people come up to me. Octa lectures I had given poke. I promise you I'll do. My bit will gear but I think most people believe that they alone or insignificant which is why people go. I'm not gonNA vote. My vote doesn't count or I'm not GonNa do this. I'm just one personal. I don't matter how do we sort of infused and the idea of people. Yes you do matter because it's involved matters the it's the opposite. I say no if it was just you wouldn't make a bit of difference but it's not just skew if everybody said. I'M ONE POST. I don't make a difference. I'll do nothing. Nothing would get done. But if you know that you'll not the only person that's why the roots and shoots communities like a family growing around the world hundreds of thousands of young people from kindergarten university and everything in between and it sticks with them you know and they realize that not with a family so people in China Kebab and Save Kusei care about the environment. I was in route suits in primary school notes. Fifty six of its in eighty six. Get rummell the time. It's in sixty five countries active right now so because you are involved with a lot of things obviously you have to. It's so interesting that you started as this kind of singular the singular movements. I mean I know you were part of a group and you work with Dr Leaky. But you know you're out working with chimps and then it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and now you're a really kind of a movement and you oversee you. You have to like delegate. How are you comfortable delegating? You know or if it were you. Would you be really deeply involved with everything in every level at every detail noah anything I really insist on being involved with I will not have people write something because I'm so of so many Right about this blurbs for Winston if it's got my name on it okay you can draw something but I'm not it's going to be made that writes it Rights got so I have to be deeply involved in that amend the rest is an overview I mean I have such amazing teams credible team in the US. Fantastic in Tanzania the ones looking after the chimps in South Africa Chimp Eden ones a shampoo in Ghana Congo. Just amazing people who somehow appear the right time in the right place. Were you comfortable talking in front of people you comfortable being a speaker or early terrified. I for the first time I had to speak. I literally felt I couldn't breathe very shy child. I never spoke at school really an you. We very self conscious or did you just sort of feel like what what what what were you feeling in those moments where you just felt like you couldn't really be a part of what was going on. Yeah what was five thousand people in Dar Constitution Hall. I thought what I can't do this. I was too shy but it was. I mean that it was actually when I was in front of the People. They pulled something from me. And that's how I always been but I guess I guess that has a lot to do with having a purpose remission because if you have a purpose of remission that's larger than you and it's not just for yourself would you say it's fair to say that you always at least have that to fall back on. Yeah I think so. I mean you know when I first went to college to university back in the mid sixty s. I wrote a popular book I geographic had said that was one of the parts of the deal and the book came out. I was very nearly sent away because scientists did not write popular books a while. Everyone had in. This book is true as I know how it could be. But what's the point of just something in keeping it's stuck in an ivory tower? I want people to know I want people to understand. I want people to realize onnell's on just things. They have cuss melodies minds and emotions sentient and I was told. That dog is my dog behind me. Him companion that rusty. Yes that's Rusty. You had to have the strength of conviction though to know that you that even in the face of people saying no this is this is this is rubbish. We don't have to listen to this. People don't work that way. You still have the confidence to to push ahead but in those moments did you experience self doubt or was that just never part of the equation at all. Oh of course it was then I would think it all through like when I took money from an oil company and signed the okay. Let me think this thing through. That was CONACO before it joined out with Dupont and Phillips and so on and they were the most ethical oil company. I I've ever met until I said to myself. I'm flying in planes driving. 'cause USING ELECTRIC. I'm using the products of these companies. So how can you put critical if you come site? I love to take your money. Let's work together to do things veteran veteran Betta and you know I wouldn't take money from oil companies. Some of them the terrible. But know you got so thinking things through logically. That was what science to what may to do but they did build this incredible reserve you. You influence conaco to build this incredible reserve to save all these chimpanzees who were in abysmal conditions and Conaco really was I mean they would they would have. People woke on the ground to do a seismic line. They will drop food from helicopters. They didn't have great trucks destroying the forest. If anybody to Bush meat the whole crew would be denied a bonus that week I mean they. They really really did things right. And of course they were so right that they they didn't make it commercially. That but actually they didn't find oil insufficient quantities. If they had we walked out the director of exploration we'd worked out exactly how this would be used to get the oil and that would protect all is huge area around it. We have have that map still somewhere in Gumby. Did you have a place like like a special place that you would go to reflect a reflection point can you? Can you just kind of describe your favorite place? There for me will lead to one the peak that I found early on sevenoaks to valleys and with my binoculars I was after hours. I slept out. Sometimes you know it's a it's a very special place. We have the water fools Kesse Kayla. Waterfall which drops eighty feet. And that's where the chimpanzees sometimes do that. They're amazing. Waterfall displays the hair out. Stamping in the war-torn swinging into the spray. On the buy than sometimes you see that is the end may sit me. See THIS COMING DOWN. And then they see it flowing away. What is it so it's coming to which going but it's always here? I think that could if they could speak. They could share what they were feeling. That could lead to early animistic religion. You know the water of the Sun Stars and things that the early humans didn't understand. And what does it mean? I read that you said that you were in the chimpanzee hierarchy you had a lower position within their hierarchy wrote. I you you what you're part of it. I know I tried to be like looking in from outside okay. The wasn't time you see it. In the movie we had been on a feeding station. I could interact with the gyms. We stopped ages because we can give them diseases. They can give us but you know the beginning. It was common the one or two people doing studies mostly feeding stations. And I didn't ever want to be part of the hierarchy wanted to stand away and observe and it became irritating after bet when they got to near wanted to see the normal behavior. They wanted to study you a step further down. Knock me OV- Oh yeah. I read about him he was I. I was reading that. You know when you first got there you experienced all this really amazing behavior that you had an expected and then slowly over time you started to see a more aggressive side of the Timpson net. One in particular photos sounded like he was. Maybe not the nicest chimpanzee horrible like horrible people had a self side to. He loved babies. He was so gentle with them. So what is it? They learning when you're when you're observing all the sudden you know aggressive behavior warlike behavior. What does that tell you about? Does that inform anything about people as well? Are you seeing like the the basis for human behavior is giving you a better understanding of us? Yeah that's why leaky sent me. He believed it was a common ancestor about six million years ago. Chimp like human like and so he felt will if Jane Cities Behavior today similar or the same in chimps and humans. Possibly that's been wrought with two species from that common apelike human like ancestor. That he thought would give him a better feeling how early humans might behave because he's been his life searching colorful sliced remains. Behavior fossilized so you know. Finding they have a dockside like Gos- make made me feel. It's time when this was kind of political thing with the Ritz nature or nurture. We born with a clean slate and learn aggression or is some innate aggression in us and I came out on the side of Innate Aggression. Honestly doc around the world today is very hard to say we're not at we have some innately aggressive tendencies but just as we are capable of violence like that like the gyms so to love compassion altruism and our greatest capacity because about intellect and our language for trying to understand should an immense most cases. I think it does control away. We behave we control our aggressive impulses. Mostly we made museum in once but could kill him. You don't actually kill him. Did you ever feel that your feel that you were in imminent danger at mean if an aggressive chimp is coming at you? They're essentially you know they can cause a lot of harm. Did you ever feel unsafe for? Did you understand wolf? I keep a certain distance. How did you? How did you feel safe in such a different environment? When Frodo is optime he would come from forty forty meters away to grab may drag me in stem on me and you can't keep a distance if a gym wants to get close. You CAN'T DO IT IN A. He's probably ten times from the mate but the thing is he actually was just showing off. If he wanted to kill me I would be now right right right right operated strength so it's basically just like a person beating their chest and barking right right right just to show like Oh. I'm a tough person. They do the same exact stuff you see two male chimps you know. Having a dominance conflicts showing off to each other standing upright swaggering or making a furious skull. Doesn't that remind you of Sutton politicians? It reminds me of a lot to politicians politicians but just people I feel like social media has allowed us to draw out. Most of those kind of you know basic early hominids. You know types of behavior patterns screaming and chess beating and puffing up and performing you know and it's mostly with chimps may try to avoid physical contact. Who's it could be dangerous for them right. So they night to buy bluffing did they will fight it comes to it. Why do you think people? Don't see the connection. What do you think it is that makes some people think that humans are so much better? I think maybe they've never shed light with an animal. I think they just you know. And that's one of the things that route suits is about is is helping people understand children understand and you know the videos out there now on youtube that absolutely priceless. You can't what some of them are not realized that animals are sentient beings. Say so can you talk a little bit about how to if someone wants to help? If someone wants to be a better citizen of the world can you talk about how to cultivate empathy or how to how to Extr how to instill at into other people you know some ideas of listening and talking and getting involved for people who might be especially for people who grew up on devices and not necessarily interacting in person at even though we can't at the moment. Can you talk a little bit about cultivating patients empathy? All those really beautiful things that allow us to connect in a in a real deep way. Well I never tried to teach people at I. Just tell stories about it and hope that they'll want to go and sit watch nature because I'm anti staggered by how much people miss and how sad that is. You know I can be walking through an airport in this too. Little Sparrows on something amazing is going on and everybody just walks by nobody notices and they missed so much so with with our roots and shoots we many try and get young children if we can't take them into nature we try and bring nature to them right and it. It makes a huge difference then. No animals can calm down nervous. People they can they can help with post traumatic stress disorder. They can help out to stick. Children learn to read it. They contact with an is absolutely amazing. As we're wrapping this up we have a few minutes left with you. I just want to say happy. Belated Birthday thank. You did you do. I mean imagine you were in quarantine for your birthday able to do anything. No we didn't do anything and You know six of us in the house but we try and keep segregated to some extent. Sure this tonight. She sheds my belt day. We had supper in one room and her daughter and Pinochet Supper in another room. And the Judy's two grandsons grown up now more or less. They had supper separately to so we had you know. I said we should really have zoom connection. How do you and your sister the exact same birthday that those are astronomical odds? You're not twins now not twins note but not even the light. Not a bit really. Yeah so just is part of I don't know a birthday reflection. I guess what are you hoping to achieve still? Obviously there's a never ending list of things to do. But what are your top priorities right now. Running the Youth Program of the Youth Movement. I should say more and more roots and shoots. We just started in the Middle East. We sort of everywhere. Now got a long way to go in Latin America but you know once he gets going and you get the right people it takes off like it's sweeping across India right now. Oh fantastic. How's the roots and shoots program doing in America Gun pretty well? We went to a bad time when the Jane Goodall Institute wanted to make money out today but that little phase went away and people changed the people in New People. Now it's back to how it's supposed to be grassroots movement. Young people choosing what they want to do because then they act with passion and the when the when the gathering from different parts of the city of wherever I found at the end of a meeting when they been exchanging ideas they were saying together. We can until I said yes we can but will we The different some. Now they all end up staying together we can together we will. I was at a big talk at twelve minutes slot to talk to the the second biggest music festival in Europe and I got sixteen thousand people oil standing up saying together we can together. We will save will tastic. What can they? What can people do if? There's not a roots intrigued program in their community. Dot One the start one. I mean we like you to register. It doesn't cost anything but we like to share. We bought lots of ideas and suggestions we like to share. What the different groups doing but anybody who start a route since huge group dislike not stocking in prisons in some countries and we've had roots and shoots in retirement homes works really well in China. Owed people say we thought we'd finished but now we know we don't have that John's right. I've been following your work for a long time and I guess I just find it refreshing that someone is able to bridge these worlds find commonality between not just us in the animal kingdom but also which up. We're a part of but also just people I again. It feels like you're superpower is finding commonality and communicating and I I really do think that will be a tremendous part of your legacy and hopefully one that people take away not just A. We have to conserve the environment but also learning how to educate not just that we have to educate learning how to communicate educates. Yeah because only if you do it right. Sit really sinking in. Some people can teach a subject via the open. It's so boring the way they do it but the people that trying to teach don't really learn anything that it's really about. The stories in the connection to the stories connections isn't people. Some people are so determined to get to the top Not something they want to do whether it's math so physics or whatever the have to learn in a boring way but these days you can. You can learn an awful lot in a non boring way on the Internet deceptive. Be careful that you you looking at something. That's factual not it's so hard to know. Sometimes it's just so hard to know what's real or not As we're as we're wrapping this out. Can you just describe one specific thing that brings you joy in a time when everyone is home and scared and the world seems like such a terrifying place? What's a good? What brings you joy what what keeps hope alive for you. Well think thinking about the young people doing thinking how nature can take over right now with this unlocked down around the world you know. It's going to be cleanest air on earth vape appropriately fifty years since it began. Nature has amazing ability to to come back. We give it a johns and you know. I'm looking out the window. Now in the setting some is coming through the leaves of the Copper Beech. And it's just so beautiful and the BLACKBIRD. I heard him singing. Just now you can see this even in the middle of a city and we're working to get more and more oven farming urban gardening greeting sixties Green Walls. Green stuff growing on the roof. This the I think the biggest hope is that people are changing as a swell of people who understand that. Our intensive factory farms a harming the environment and releasing methane and at Inter adding the climate change and also providing opportunity for viruses to jump from these poor animals to several times sub understanding. And that's the big hope and this crisis we're going through now. You know either again to emerge Stephanie. People will the people the first time go clean? Now come see the stars above if enough people don't want to go back to the old pollution. Maybe it'll be sufficient groundswell to change assim politics. I don't know that that's so there's an opportunity for a little bit of a reset. Yeah it's a perfect opportunity and at least we might might learn how to be respectful of animals nature. If nothing else will I think? Part of that is not just seeing ourselves as separate or not seeing ourselves as humans are up here. Everything else is down here but seeing us as a as a functioning community member of nature positive it and we I on the natural world of food for clothing for clean now regulating the temperature and the rainfall. We're confident we can't live without it so if we go on destroying it we destroy ourselves ultimately in. That's all these young people who voted not in spite of that though I do that. You Understand and appreciate everything that you've accomplished that you feel a sense of of of great satisfaction. I'm I'm very happy about the root shoot program. I'm very happy that more and more people understand the true nature animals but all the different things. I've done that come to light in. This film fills me with amazement. I don't know how it happened. It didn't want it. I didn't work for it. I didn't want to gain this. What do I call it? Notoriety is perhaps not too good blood. People stay oh you're an icon. I didn't want to be an icon but when I discovered that's what people wanted the Oregon amongst us it Razzie meet people are used to in an airport Can I do a selfie while you give them a little break? Shown to get your children involved in roots and shoot that sort of thing. That's fantastic. I can't thank you enough for just being so wonderful to talk to and giving me an hour of your time and also for just making everything human like just providing humanity maybe humanity is not is not even because that seems to exclude the Animal Kingdom as well but just putting a very empathetic point of view onto things and you really infuse that into everything that you do and I just honestly can't thank you enough for for being for your time. I think the main important would is respect respect. Each other should respect animals. We should respect nature. I hope you stay safe and healthy and thank you so much. You too have a wonderful evening. Okay us will gaining complete enjoy overeat.