You've got to any acronyms to remember the meanings of like like S._M.. D. H. Patriot Act as one of them and C._R._M.. Customer Relationship Management System. That's tricky one that one maelstrom can help with smell chimps. All in one marketing platform helps you know who to talk to what to say went to say it and the best channel to deliver the message. That's what the C._R._M.. Helps with learn more at MILKJAM DOT com. I'm Um keep your doors shut as for a search warrant and if they don't have it will then don't open the door San Francisco <hes> stands behind our Dr Sanctuary city policy say came from you think about this in Nashville stunned Brokaw Palace Immigrant New Yorkers you have rights if your approach by ice you have rights in your home you have rights on the street or in public you talk open your the Washington correspondent for the San Francisco Chronicle immigrant communities across the country were Unedu- this weekend there were rallies. There were churches and cities offering shelter and sanctuary. Why was everyone on edge? Gosh so this has been a build up of several weeks at this point. President trump is promising a mass crackdown on undocumented immigrants that could include families with children. We start with a tweet from president trump a few weeks ago warning that his administration start rounding up millions of undocumented people writing the immigration and customs enforcement will begin removing quote millions of illegal aliens next week that particular Operation Shen got pushed back to Sunday of this week and we again got a little bit of advance notice from you know sources that were leaking and also from the president who confirmed it. We typically don't get advance notice of operations from ice but in this case there was a lot of advance notice saying that some operation was coming. Okay so it started with millions of people are going to be rounded up then it came down to thousands or hundreds how many people were actually rounded up yesterday or over the weekend first of all we always knew it was never gonna be millions. Ice Operations always build a target list of several thousand knowing that they're not GonNa get everyone on that list so they put together lists for various regions and say these are the people we want to primarily go after but as of now we have no reports of sort of widespread operations or tons of arrests happening on Sunday. Do we know why they didn't happen is because people were expecting them. I don't know that we should frame it. As why did they not happen. This was always marketed as starting Sunday but it was never only Sunday these things typically last five days. If ice is going to go through the trouble of making target list typically they do a little bit of surveillance. They try to figure out. Do we know this person's routine. Is there a good time to intercept them. Perhaps people that they're observing. Don't leave the house much on Sundays but on Mondays they go to work and perhaps they have a plan to pick them up on their way to work then there's also the factor of all the mobilization that was done in the advocacy community and so they're also maybe a combination of factors. Here's the people not answering the door staying with relative going underground knowing that this is happening all of the above how much of this actually changed under the trump administration how much of this is new you know under this administration we have actually Ashley seen arrest levels and deportation levels fairly comparable to the Obama administration that said total numbers aside. We have seen this administration going after more non-criminal immigrants so people who do not have criminal convictions and even more who don't even have criminal charges although charges are just charges they have not been proven in court yet but it's still mostly criminals who are picked up by ice. It's down to something like like sixty to seventy percent but still sixty to seventy percent criminals bullets up with the non-criminals. More non-criminals are being detained now right yet. The reason that the number of non-criminals is going up is because they're doing two things differently gently one. They're prioritizing people who have what's called a final order of removal or a deportation order. What they say is a lot of these people have them quote unquote in absentia meaning? They were not in court when that deportation deportation order was given the other thing is that ice has much more free rein under this administration to have what are called collateral arrests meaning they show up at someone's door under the Obama Administration they were under instructions ends to focus on their targets and prioritize the people that have been prioritized under this administration. They may start asking everyone in the home about their status and arresting anyone in the home who is without status so that has also also partly driven up the numbers so overall. It's not like we're seeing hugely. Skyrocketing numbers of arrests were not seeing tons more deportations. What we're seeing is a different population of people in a different mix of? The people being caught up in Isis not and more and more of them could be families could be parents could be you know unfortunate bystanders who happen to be in the wrong place and got caught up by US okay. We've got two ways. The trump administration is shifting deportation priorities one targeting more people who weren't in court when they were ordered to be deported and to allowing ice to expand their targets when they knock on indoors correct who's the target of these raids specific to this operation what we have been told by ice is that they would like to go after a population of families who are part of what has been called an expedited added docket or colloquially the rocket docket that was set up specifically just for families that are arriving at the southern border and with this did was basically put all those cases to the front of the line and Immigration Court because because the administration said we want to send a message to families that are coming that they're not going to just be allowed to stay so they moved all the cases to the front of the line. This is something like sixty thousand cases of those a fraction fraction roughly eleven thousand were completed in absentia meaning that in order was given when the family was not present for a court hearing on Thursday the A._C._l._U. filed this preemptive lawsuit arguing that the targets of ice raids should be allowed a day in court are the targets of ice rates not allowed a day in court so it depends if you do not already have something on your record heard you do still get a day in court if however the person that they're picking up has one of these final deportation orders technically that means they went through the court process will A._C._l._U. is saying is it really was not like that. You know many many of these individuals may have simply moved they get a court notice to appear but it goes to the wrong address and they have no idea and they never show up. It can be something like that. What the A._C._l._U. is saying is that just because an immigrant has a final order removal in absentia does not mean that they were given a fair court process contrary to what the administration is saying and they were petitioning to have that sort of factored in to give all of these immigrants a chance to Sir free open their case? If you actually get a trial if you get to have a day in court as an asylum seeker who's in the process of being deported. How difficult is it to navigate the court system? The short answer is very difficult just for one second of very much of a step back think about the fact that most of these people were talking about arriving at the southern border come from remote parts of Central America. They definitely don't speak English. Many of them don't even speak Spanish. They speaking indigenous language. They come from places where you know quote unquote. Federal authorities can often be working with gangs. You know hand in hand. They're incredibly skeptical of their government's ability to protect them. They've I've never actually been in real court. They get to the U._S.. They're thrown into you know our court system problem is these cases take years to work their way through the system so it's going to be disorienting even in the most friendly setting for many of these immigrants and it's an incredibly difficult process. How much difference does having an attorney make it makes a big difference? Actually the administration's big plaint is that all these immigrants don't show up for their hearings. Well north of ninety percent of immigrants show up for their hearings if they have an attorney according to some of the research that's out there so you know whether or not actually makes for for a successful outcome. It certainly makes for a better process in honestly it makes for a better process for both sides of the equation because it's easier for the judges and the quote unquote prosecutors which in this case our ice attorneys if the immigrant has an attorney to explain to them what is happening along the way and say this is when you need to be in court. This is what we're going to do that day you don't get scared off by the craziness of this the likelihood of the process completing itself and not generating some appeal that ten years later reopened the case are much much much higher if you have an attorney and then some cases are still unsuccessful asylum law is very complicated and you have to establish a lot of things you know. It's not simply you know. My neighbor was trying to kill me because we got into an argument. I can't go back. That's probably not going to be enough for an asylum claim even if it might be a really terrible story and so so they're not all successful but the process is by far more likely to work if there's an attorney representing quicker what exactly happens after someone's picked up by ice what they go. How long are there? What stands between them and deportation? I'm going to ask immigration attorney after the break if you run a business but you're not really into the marketing side of things mail chimp wants to help with they're all in one marketing platform a platform that allows you to manage more of your marketing activities. He's from one place so you can market smarter grow faster. This platform eliminates the need for multiple tools by giving you everything you need to create and publish and manage and measure your marketing campaigns. It's it's powered by a good old marketing C._R._M.. Customer Relationship Management System so you can collect an organized and understand all of your audience data Milton's complete marketing platform has everything you need to start marketing your business business today and while you're off managing your business multiple be there to help you as your business grows and needs new capabilities learn more about this whole deal at male chimp dot com. Let Mel Chimp help you markets smarter smarter much <hes> okay so let me have you say your name and what does he do. My name is clavicle. I'm the litigation director for the capital Area Immigrant Rights Coalition <hes> otherwise known as care coalition where a D._C.. Based nonprofit <hes> but we provide legal services to people who are detained in Maryland and Virginia and can you all represent immigrants who have been detained by ICE. What exactly happens right after ice shows up well when somebody gets arrested <hes> usually it's a couple of officers who <hes> arrest that person and they bring them into a field office or a local office where Isis set up and they can book them for booking could be anywhere between two hours or several hours and booking would it really entails is going through taking the person's fingerprints reprints asking them questions comparing their biometric data to anything in the system to see if they already have a case ongoing they transport you to the jail that they've identified? It could be a jail within an hour or away or could be a jail three four hours away from the local field office so it could be eight to nine hours until finally that person gets to a place where they can call someone and then once they get to jail all their properties confiscated for skated they usually are given a onesie and then they're given some basic toiletries and they get a caught and this is just the trial period the first stage of a legal case it could be anywhere between the month to six months. A month of the person doesn't fight to stay six months or longer. If the person you know is applying for something like asylum and it could be longer if the person appeals so I've had clients in fact. I have a client right now who is getting to his third year in detention. It sounds a lot like criminal court but it's important to remember here that this is actually a civil proceeding. It smells like it feels like it looks like criminal court but it civil people come in with jumpsuits and shackles. I mean like when we talk about civil court. We're talking about like a divorce proceeding right. We're talking about People's Court. Remember People's Court the show sure so. That's very civil court where you have a a dispute. Perhaps with your neighbor over trash. That's civil court right what happens after arrest in these situations the second phase of this process which is okay. How can I fight my case and and what I usually tell people when I go inside the jails and give the rights as people fall into three basic categories category one? This is your first time having an encounter with ice so those people generally are gonna see an immigration judge. That's guaranteed either GonNa go to immigration. Court seem sort of straightforward category to the second type of category of people are people who have what is called a final order of deportation that means that at some points an immigration judge ordered them removed and they didn't leave. We've <hes> it could be for various reasons that they were ordered removed and they have to figure out how to reopen that proceeding to get to immigration court. They have to fight to get to immigration court right. We heard about that one in the first half of the show. You've been asked to leave. Maybe no you didn't know maybe you did but you haven't left and now you're fighting to stay. What's the third category that third category as somebody who was previously deported and then <hes> is now back in the United States <hes> those people are in a the type of situation that's going to be called reinstatement where they reinstate the removal order from before and try to deport them fast again but those people because our laws allow Laufer nonrefoulement we can't send people back who are afraid to go back to their countries? Those people can can fight again to get to immigration court by going through a credible <hes> a reasonable fear interview process basically an interview with an asylum officer and if they pass that interview they get to go to immigration court and try to play for protection something like asylum these. Three scenarios first time in Immigration Court deportation orders been issued and you're trying to fight the stay or you've already been deported. Now you've come back. These scenarios aren't new. What's changed for you as an immigration attorney with this administration's increased scrutiny on asylum and immigration? I think for me as an immigration attorney I've been practicing over a decade now so through three administrations Bush Years Obama years is now trump years and I would say that the most difficult aspect of representing asylum-seekers at this moment is that they keep changing the laws they keep changing the case song from literally one day to the next and then the other aspect of it is that they keep <unk> limiting legal access. You know I've had experiences in the last two years where I was told. My staff was told at organization that we could not enter the jails in Maryland at all my personal opinion is I think regardless of how difficult or how much President Bush and President Obama were pushing for the deportation removal of of people when I was a lawyer under their administrations there was clear idea of what due process was of what the case law was. There wasn't so much shifting from one day to the next right. I guess we saw an example that just this morning the trump administration says it's is going to create a rule that requires asylum seekers who pass through another country on their way to the U._S.. Mexico border to I claim asylum in that first country what would help lawyers like you navigate a system with rules like these that are changing that are in flux immigration law. Even though there's immigration courts the immigration courts are staffed by judges that our officers their employees of the Department of Justice which is under the executive branch that means it is in essence the same agency WHO's trying to deport that person ice is under the same umbrella right the executive branch that the judge works for and so that means the immigration courts are more susceptible to political back and forth so are you saying that ice and immigration judges are following the same any mortars. What I'm saying is that Isis under the Department of Homeland Security the immigration judges are under the Department of Justice? They're both agencies under the executive branch under this administration and another past administrations like the Bush shears <unk> generally those agencies have been seen as enforcement tools as enforcement agents so people think a judge they think an impartial person who's GonNa hear their case and make make an objective in partial decision but that's different when the same administration that's trying to deport these people under a very specific political ideology is now in charge of that immigration court system so in essence. It's not a real impartial immigration court in fact the Union of immigration judges the federal bar the A._B._A.. Ayla the American Immigration Lawyers Association all wrote a letter recently asking Congress is please please please these immigration courts make them independent in our view. The immigration courts must be moved out of the Department of Justice to ensure that judges have Foale decisional independence without fear of reprisal more improper political influence that was Hillary Bass testifying in front of Congress last year at at the time she was the president of the American Bar Association. We reached out to the Department of Justices Executive Office for immigration review to ask about cloudy argument that the Immigration Court should be made independent of the executive branch that an independent system would be fair and better functioning. They declined an interview but wrote in an email that the financial costs and logistical hurdles to implementing an immigration court system would be monumental and would likely delay pending cases even further and it's such a change would do nothing to address the pending backlog of cases rather the backlog would just grow even faster with less accountability and less oversight. They also stressed that since immigration judges decide ED cases that implicate questions of foreign relations it helps to keep them close to the attorney general who operates under presidential supervision. I'm Sean Rama's firm. This is today <music> mm-hmm. Thanks to mail Jim for supporting the show that you might be thanking.