Effectively Wild Episode 1510: Season Preview Series: Red Sox and Giants
Hello and welcome. Deb So fifteen ten of effectively wild fan graphs baseball podcast brought to you by our Patriot. Supporters I'm MEG rally a fan graphs. I am joined once again by Sam Miller of ESPN. Sam How are you? I'm good? How are you good sightseeing shocked you so much this week? Yeah yeah this is our fourth our fourth call. Yeah we've several. We've done several calls a little later in the episode. We will preview the Red Sox with Alex Spirit of the Boston Globe and the giants with our Pell Grant Brisby of the athletic such an episode. An brisby no embarrassment of riches really. I mean we have had all of our guests have been really really rate during these preview bads suspicious. You know. Sometimes we're talking to people we don't know and I enjoy that because I get to know them and get your New Perspective on baseball. Sometimes we get to talk to our pals and that's fun Console Response Sharks your pals so what an embarrassment of riches in this episode two main stages in my hand. We recorded our segment with Alex on the red SOx little earlier this week so I guess we should give a brief Chris sale update so that I don't have to record a little bit on this. Which is that. It does not seem as if he needs. Tommy John Surgery most immediately but that this elbow flexor strain problem is significant and he sounds very upset about it he told reporters that it sucks and Tommy. John is not sort of out the window. Sounds like they'll no more than a couple of weeks but it's not great. What's the what's the good way that this could go? I guess the good way is that he could rehab it and come back later in the season and pitch and hopefully do it well. But in anticipation of a long delay and needing rotation Depth Threat Sox signed Colin mccue. Who only recently started throwing himself after having an injury riddled twenty nineteen so that helps them get better but he ends up. Having to throw a lot of star ratings seemed bad so well. We didn't know this information when we talked to Alex but he was Kinda clearly. I think Alex was was fairly pessimistic at that. And so that probably I don't know I think that's a little bit baked into expectations for the Red Sox. Right now is that well. I guess I guess this is sort of superstition but I think baked into expectations for the red sox. Right now is that things aren't going to go. Well like if there is something that could go one way or the other this year. I think there's a sense that it's not going to go the good way. Yeah I think that that is right. So that'll come. That'll come up later. Yeah we'll talk about that later. I WanNa say one quick thing. Before we go to that amend we will get right into these These previews which is that people going on vacation is is funny and I enjoy it when bengals on vacation This is GonNa end up being nice for everyone. I enjoy it because I appreciate in his absence. How much I enjoyed talking it so I didn't get to actually my buddy ben this week and I wish I could. I revel in the opportunity to talk to you because I don't get shocked you as much as I would like to. And it makes me appreciate all the good work that then and dylan due to edit these episodes because when Ben has gone I sub for him and not always as early as you might hope or expect and it makes me realize the production that goes into getting effectively wild out three times a week. So I decided express some appreciation for for all of you because Ben's absences had that sort of mine for me. Some of their you. Huzzah them. So having said Nice things we will now take a quick break and on the other end of this we will have our interview with Alex. Bear the Boston Globe out the Boston. Red Sox one and Jane Defense and now. We will discuss the Boston Red Sox and to do that. We are joined by the Boston Globe. Alex Kerr Alex how are you? I am just great. I am back in my home away from away from big little which is yeah are you. We're while we're doing well. I am also in my home so you know we have that in common. I think before we talk about the state of the Roster and the outlook for twenty twenty. I wanted to ask you about the atmosphere. In Camp. That you have just gotten back from obviously. This team has been in a state of change for the last several months of public state of change. They fired their general manager. They had to fire their manager. They traded away. Mookie Betts and David price than they almost didn't than they actually did and against all of that the leaks punishment for the red sox. Signs ceiling is still looming. So I'm curious. What's the atmosphere like in camp? And how have the players are dealt with what I imagine is pretty distracting? Start to the season will on top of that on top of all. That changed the already noted I. There is also the kind of strangeness of Red Sox having the largest big recanted. I can remember that happened usually. They've been Rosalie low. In the mid fifties to upper fifties in terms of number players camps. In this year as they pursue attended different motive roster building remnants more opportunistic and us. You know those final spots of the forty niners auto consequential there are sixty eight people in camps and they had to bring in temporary lockers and John and have a much more crowded workplace environment so in terms of other handling it now that they are into baseball activities like on a daily basis. It's team it's where my supposed to go. And when Logan Zero Games there that that's all kind of that's that's on lugging athlete cruise control. But at the same time. It is Julia different place to be showing up right. There's not a lot of music on daily basis. It's not allowed in the clubhouse as you're accustomed to here we were familiar with each other on different sides of a room. They're still ethic. Pretty obviously a feeling out process among the players for each other and trying to make sense of the fact that there is a pretty considerable amounts of change supported in a small period of time. And they don't really know very well our hearts of that trade no of whether time blue who's made a real point of trying to get to know a lot of the players that nonetheless there's only so much you can do when your life is consumed per month by you know training rookie. Bats in David. Brussels well is higher than the manager which didn't expect her. I think that there's I I would say that. The best way to describe the group as I've experienced it time that I have been down in two separate. Stints is uninformed is kind of an employee state that does that awaits definition. And not sure exactly how could that definitions has? The definition is changing is essentially an ongoing fashion while they find out things. Like oh Chris Sale. Who said that he felt awesome is certainly navy not going to maybe going to be missing a substantial to a substantial chunk of plenty plenty in perhaps Ali so these are strange days as I mentioned. They're still a very big piece of this off season puzzle that has yet to completely materialized. We have an update on when the ORG is GonNa learn what their punishment is for science dealing not really the game keeps getting kicked down the road. I think that we ever insisted that it was going to be done before. Officials startled spin training and then rob Manfred seven recording to be. John will ever for the February. That's no longer the case. Then you know the kind of maybe this week in so I guess that was points until until it's until it's released I am going converted. They're they're continuing to researching the Union thought a couple of weeks ago the dumber research of it unnatural. That's the case anymore. Although I will say this that part of things that doesn't affect the twenty twenty except for a mess Ron Reinecke gets named Going to happen than it would really affect. What's happening in the preparations for twenty twenty? It's more of an ex post facto redefinition of what agent didn't do with consequences for twenty twenty one Niaz. I WANNA ask a slightly more specific version of maze. Question which is are the red SOx players mad that Mukhi bets got traded because the one of the things that players ask their front offices is to get more players that they've heard of and that they think are good in that they think are going to win and so I would think just like from a messaging standpoint to the clubhouse. This is the sort of thing that you sometimes think could really send a message that players would be angry at being sent not just disappointed. The team's going to be a little bit worse but actually angry that this is the message that was sent to them. Is that simmering? I don't think so I. I haven't got mud fronts. I have gotten the sense that you know. They're they're wondering what life are. GonNa to be like Zander. Bogart's kind of unprompted. The everyday referred to the pressure of of the team Mayfield to address. His void but very candidly like they are the team. The members of the team who've been around are mostly really well paid heavily at at a certain point recognized that there was going to be some kind of a financial reckoning that occurred. I think there had been a lot of talk in mccomb house at Uruguay about contract status in. Who's getting wider on Major League? Baseball and I think that there was. There was no understanding that came out of that that there was a pretty decent chance that mookie. I not resign in that. Were they. Were going to be questions about. His long-term future in Boston. Similar players said can read before they broke up at the end of turning eighteen. They thought that murky web traded. Because of what might be and how many other ones they had were. You know sale at Bogart's joining me. Twenty plus million dollars a year club. I've already featured JD. Martinez David Price and almost native is making some team. Only about yourself. I think that there is. There is a bit of a business savvy about the idea that he's gone. I think that there was a love expectation of the possibility that mookie might eventually get down so I don't think that there I I don't think there was like tremendous Shah Actual this possibility talking about even in red sox going back for a while so I mean if a team that were you know like projected to be a fourth place team or to win. Seventy two games traded their superstar year before free agency. We would be. We'd be pretty used to that. And part of what makes this such kind of confounding trade to to analyze or to have emotions about well. Actually I don't feel confounded about. I think I would rather they not traded him. But it's confounding in a way because it's not quite clear. What the Red Sox are so? I'm looking at the red sox starting rotation right now and they have their number. Two Starter is Nathan Volley. Who was a disastrous? Last year was not healthy but also very very very bad. And then you have which is true. I mean I mean I'm I'm not saying he can't be good again. I like him. But extreme. But not metric characterization twenty season and that you've got Martine Perez who had six point two seven era in the second half and six point two two era the year before. And you know is not really anybody's idea of a sure thing healthwise either. And then you have Ryan Weber. Who is a twenty nine year old former twenty second round pick with one hundred and twelve career innings in eighty seven career? Era Plus and. He's the number four starter and then as it is right now if. We're assuming that Chris Sale is unavailable. There is not a listed fifth starter and that seems like you read that and you think well that's a that is a rebuilding team team that needs to figure some things out before they're going to be competitive again. And then you sorta go over to the websites and whether you know depending on which site you're at they project to be something like an eighty five to eighty nine win team with something like thirty five to fifty percent playoff odds which puts them in a camp with like basically the braves and the as and the cardinals and the cubs and Cleveland that that sort of zone of teams. And so if you buy those odds than it feels really weird. You know to trade. You're you're superstar your best player and that's without even getting into the fact that most of this core was there when they one hundred and eight games two years ago so I guess the question is and this is kind of jumping Edna podcasts. A little bit. Because we're GonNa make you tell US exactly how wins they're gonNA they're gonNA have this year? Do you buy like does anything about those projections. Seem fishy to you or does that seem kind of about right. Is this truly a competitive team with a still even without mookie betts a pretty good shot a shot at the playoffs and enough strengths? Everywhere else to overwhelm that rotation weakness. Well so I think the most of the projections were formed before Chris. Sale Chris. Sale suffered his His physical his physical setback day. Where he threw batting practice. A Little Chris after two hundred days of not facing hitters. He got onto the mound was really excited and looks pretty good throwing to a couple of you know to a right handed hitter and left handed hitter in a live batting. Practice session never was really encouraged in the next day. He felt soreness in his elbow. So powered alter calculus right because most projections factor in the idea of Chris sale is a relatively healthy at jer. In the fact that you're probably already now looking at you know the best case scenario. I would be awfully surprised if we saw Chris sale before. May Guy that alters the calculus especially given the drop off your. You're like it's not like there's a placement level pitcher to call up in order to fill in that spot you're looking at probably at below replacement level pitcher and maybe a drastically below replacement level pitcher in terms of in terms of where that gap goes in. So I think that there's there's a significant downward projection even for missing a month a month and a half two months Chris Sale. But if you look at them on paper right if you look at if you just look at the lineup. You've without rookie bets. You can see awfully. We'll see how compelling team in terms of what the lineup to do in terms of a potential dynamism. Andrew Benintendi had ten about from a year last year like he acknowledged the Atacama Year if ideal kind of inter benintendi baseball shape. And so okay back. Not In the best shape of his life but The shape of his life that led to his best year in two thousand. Eighteen is still have zehnder bogart's and Rafael Devers. Jd Martinez three elite enters in the middle of the lineup. And that there's there's a lot of offensive talents in group so from that standpoint. You know that's impressive. Their bullpen. Which was off maligned. Last year is actually it features a ton of high strikeout guys who probably watched too many people that's making your home runs more consequential than they should have otherwise been but the stuff is really really good and they were. Actually I think pretty interesting group in the second half of the season. They just didn't have as many games where they were trying to preserve leads late so I I think that you know I've seen weird things happen. Balsam right like I've I've covered red sox for. This is my Nike season in particularly in the last decade. I saw I saw the red sox wildly over perform under perform their projections into. It's kind of. It was an idea that bencher talked about back when. I was doing my book. Shameless self-promotion about the kind of feedback labs can exist in Boston where the intensity of the environment can really kind of caused the team to spiral in one direction or number base sometimes sometimes on early season factors so you throw in like a youth. Rona weirdness such as Bobby Valentine and it seemed it looks on paper like that eighty five win projection becomes a out seventy win teen and you throw in. You know something more positive or you throw in something unifying let such a great clubhouse culture in response to a devastating citywide occurrence tragedy in the farm marathon bombing twenty thirteen. And you have team wildly over performs its projections again. Cultural Change in two thousand eighteen along with edition of JD. Martinez leaves seem the PRI- projects to be in the low nineties in its run todos in two one hundred eight wind territory. So I'd seen enough to think okay to know that I shouldn't dismiss the possibility of contention but it seems like there are you know. But it's it's it's a diminished rebuff. Offensively can offset some some of that demonstration by virtue of bounce backs from guys wonder performed last year and the pitching staff was already diminished. Thanks to the absence of price for four sales injuries. Let's stick on the pitching staff for a second because one of their. It seems strange to say this routine that Delta Way the two thousand Eighteen v people apart from a couple of smaller signings. They were pretty quiet when it came to free agents this off season. One of their edition was Martine Perez. Who had a really strange season for the twins? He was really good in the early going. just led by that devastating cutter and then faded pretty dramatically as the season wore on. I think the duration of his deal with the Red Sox probably answers part of my question here but what are their expectations for him. Going into the season I view him as being someone with upside beyond what to do in twenty nineteen that you referenced which was new pitch for villages in grades is a really really good niche if you look at the stats like you know. Extra MINUS WOVE OFF. He had one of the biggest disparities nulla baseball Versus the outcomes that content generated they. They think that there are some small tweet sue pitches. I think their hope is that he'd be kind of a decent innings. Eater he will. He was that he was reliable. Rotation LAST YEAR UNHEALTHY. Who was able to give them somewhere in the vicinity of League average performance. I think they'd be thrilled by that that I think that you know. They're they're not looking at him to the front of the rotation guy with huge upside. They think is better than that. Six Plus your a of last year even though you're pretty closely the six plus. Yara the previous year because the euro cloudy So I they're they're believers that he's he's better back guy. How much butter Wilson? Who has a quick one? You don't have to go into detail about them. But I went through the two three and four starters and let's presume that sale isn't available and let's also presume that as happens with every team's pitching staff you end up needing a sixth seventh and eighth if Ryan Weber is the fourth starter are the fifth sixth and seventh options right now as they need to get more depth. Yeah this is one of the point of this is. This is a Bosnian exercise at a day to day. Basis it's You know where the anonymous the relatively unknown people enter into the Middle Laden of Of Spring Training Games in when they start getting multi innings. You like Oh for Perth rotation for a bucket offering. The caveat is going to be an awful lot of consideration demons using an opener role in in some in some form or another based on the personnel. They have not a guarantee but certainly a lot of consideration beyond that so Ryan Weber is talked about quite a bit as one of the potential starting pitching candidates. You need a few starts for them last year. Basically need one really start for them in a couple of starts warranted for them. Ya Bad Chris Maza is they. Cram off waivers from the mets. They think they think has a pitch makes a little more upside than general past. He's a slider cutter guy who also kind of shows. The change doesn't draw much and then there were having incorporated foresee Mertz change levels fun stuff like that but again this is like a journeyman guy was lowest in India Bali couple of years ago so not exactly the type of guy he necessarily competing heating for one of the fives rotations. Lots Matt Holland. Other guy bounced around a little bit was gaining some consideration for back of the rotation spots. They have one homegrown starter. Who's probably never actually two guys Were more familiar making some consideration. Ten our health is funny. Seventeen first round pick. Who has a really good to sumer really good cider especially against right in hitters has always been consistent? It's lefties if he can locate to do a better job. Canadian side or against lefties them can be pretty good. Against ice both sides plight he also has a usable if inconsistent change out central time trial. So He's a guy who could get a bit of a look in a year where the red sox expect more of their homegrown guys are gonNA get loves than in past years and that Brian. Jobson someone who's GonNa Stop Starter across? Who May get some further? Who may get some further? Love Spring training progresses. If he's healthy which he has always been always been and if his stuff is from a brother Julius so you went into detail about them thank you. I didn't. I'm sorry I did both our Damn I was supposed to be. That's not my forte. I'm sorry everyone wanted to hear about Kris Mazda and a lot of weight. He is the he's related to. Joe Dimaggio Wow. Wow really yeah. Their Way His his grandmother. Will I think that they have? I think he might have lineage by his. His grandmother was first cousins. Joe Maggio and Dom Dimaggio did you have you. Have you heard that Martha Stewart Babysat Yogi. Berra's kids oh no. I hadn't expected I read that one and I've been spent on the tip of my tongue about a thousand times over the last like seven months and I finally just set it so that I will never have to think. When's the right time to say this? Well usual target just for you. Josh Burns the Assistant of the of the I don't know what his titles that. Jospin's of the dodgers from office was babysat by Julia. Louis Dreyfuss algae to grow up Martha Stewart also wrote the foreword to Snoop Dogg's cookbook on effectively wild. Wow Wow I really in for cookbook. I was GONNA say just like step one. Open the bag of doritos. You're done all right when I was a kid. Speaking of being babysat kind of when I was a kid. It seemed like there were a lot of storylines about how somebody was replacing. Somebody else and there was a lot of pressure on them to replace like somebody else you know like the Clark would leave. And then whoever was playing first base for the giants had like a ton of pressure on him to replace Will Clark or there was a trade. And there'd be a ton of pressure to replace whoever they'd been traded for and I don't really feel like we hear that that much maybe it's because players move around a lot more or maybe we're smarter with our narratives or what but it really does feel like if you're gonNA have a perfect case for that. It might be Alex for Dugo who is now having to replace. Mookie Betts in the same position and also who is You know was was traded for him in this trade that I think a lot of people are probably going to remember being upset about for a long time so I don't know if the existence of jeeter downs as well in that trade dilutes. How much of the weight of it of justifying it is on Alex Rodrigo. I don't know if those sorts of having to replace a player pressure's still exist in the modern age or not. But does it feel to you like there is a lot of pressure on Alex Rodrigo? I asked particularly because of the Boston feedback loop that you mentioned about seven minutes ago. Is there a potential that there is a serious Boston feedback loop on Alex? Verdoux go if he is you know hitting to forty in a mid June or something initially no. I don't I don't get that sense in part because he has been visible using singing about what who has as stress fracture in his lower vacuum for last season and from which is still recovering. He's pretty close to start in this one but he hasn't been he's no he's not he's not going to be in Games. Lma couple of days so by virtue like he's there there's not a microscope eye- were when you can put someone on the slide. They can't be under my concern so for now. There's there is not. I think that certain will be considerable. Amount of scrutiny to his performance actually is on the field right now. I I would say that most of the notion. No one is selling Alex. Verdoux go as eager worm Which helps I do think that he will become a little bit more nuanced in how to approach a hundred percent. What about the pressure on Kevin Pillar who is signed job Or at least to the four th outfielder to hopeless onto is viewed when I win for do not available but from what. I've I've been told by people who know him from his time with the dodgers like Virginia. Actually a person who really relishes. Onfield challenges. Who who really rights attention writes it. Spotlight scrutiny. Ends tends to perform better fat so I. I think that he's like he's been asked about in that question them out like you know. Will there be any pressure to remove easy faces pressure like going to a new market just traded a lot of not just traded lot. No in order to Norbert Fire Hymns World Series. So from everything that I've that I've heard about for Daego. People think that he's actually a pretty good on field match to the scrutiny of Boston yields software High expectations has kind of portering. Parking to gain Tends to big may be helpful in terms of dealing will those kinds of expeditions if he performs poorly and of course you know go about us to be elevated somewhat by the twenty five of them up an injury the entire organization. Robson softens notches on Hank. One place where we have seen a little bit of scrutiny. Going INTO THAT TRADE. I mean obviously was heavily scrutinized trade but specific to Redo go. He is a guy who has had throughout his career. Some makeup off field concerns and I'm curious how the team I know that it has been addressed by the organization publicly but I'm curious how they're talking about those issues and if he were a little bit surprised maybe see him as the centerpiece of this deal given those concerns. What he came up I definitely was more a was it was. It was no way surprising because I I've got a lot of risks to be assuming given you know given that he has been given that he's been mentioned in connection with an alleged alleged sexual assaults in one who is in the models of not having been a participant sort but having been When he was in the minor when he was in the minor leagues now questions about whether or not he did whether Matt he earning this. This is a massive allegation right. He denies it. He denies that he was aware of anything. Did Anything Michael Sexual Assault was for? Mommy denies that he was aware of red. Sub Sperm. You termed was a physical assault was going on as well says that it was mindful enough to handle that he's questions dodgers to the admissions office to make sure about love's Worm June something. That would test them in in our horrendous light in all stages V. Very wrong headed. Bob May like unacceptable. So they're the word that lag time bloom use of did they did not find the based on their diligence. They didn't find disqualifying background in. They had taken these questions seriously by. Yes there's that question right which is run by the ones in the public eye and again like I. Virginia says that like you know as as as well biking was never applicable report in having any criminal activity. That doesn't mean that it. It's great judgmental. Veneer anything bad. That happened but he says he was unaware of anything. So it's it's hard like in Orlando so anyway by Virtue. Pastorin have real questions about his. You're right there are other meet up questions related surveys Buckingham Move Ins by about effort level about whether mountains doing the right thing but before on South Poor seasons in for games and thus whether or not he would even maximizes talents and also created questions about like. Okay is this. Is this guy who you when you talk about the five years of service time that you're going to get for someone who's a very talented fire. Someone who last year was nearly above average everyday outfielder in baseball by injury concerns. Various off your concerns. That's a lot of risks to take on with regards to this touchstone trade with the red SOx nude so yeah I I think I think there's wrist it's happening here on earth Guy I think it does give a little bit of a window into the fact that time bloom is not necessarily use a risk taker like the combination of you. Go IN BRUCE. Dot Grotto as two pronged term is a high risk one. I think but I think that the red sox also nerve desire to evoke near-term sovereignty was the only player will be offered. Who's capable of being above average everyday majorly jitter in twenty twenty in probably twenty twenty one in talks surrounded? Talk more fun thing now. Which is and. I think that we are right to be skeptical of single season defensive as a rule but RAFAEL DEVERS DEFENSIVE. Metrics really turned around last year. There was concerned about him as a prospect all along the way because of the body that he might eventually have to shift a first and then some of the early returns in his major league. Career looked a little spotty but by our metrics by outs above average at stack cast. He had a pretty impressive season fields. And I'm curious what changes if any led to that SORTA turnaround and what you're expecting from him from a field perspective. This year so foremost I would say that. It's you know it's exposure to the major league environment. Like I think that you know a lot of times infielders fly through the minors end up being kind of overwhelmed by the clock of the Big League game when they get there. I actually so I've I've watched never quite a bit dating back to when he was seventeen years old and are we stop it like. He had really really interesting quick feet. That would play well into being a guy will range really strong arm The accuracy of his arm was was was sometimes. Purchase in the same is probably true of the position was footwork. But you know if you if you step back from activities in the big leagues to looking at him as like. Oh this is like a terrific twenty one year old. Then you're like okay. Well let's see what he looks like at twenty two twenty three so I think that mostly experiences allowed him to have a better plot for the game and there are just natural significant gains. That have happened as a result of that. Like remember the ball in the minors Rafael Devers never played with the measly. Boa is the miners through the moves of the triple. A bottle last year and Rafael Devers for that played. Nine Games is ablaze. So the way that the ball come off the bat for ground balls in AAA AA. And you know hiding signal was well different than it was in at the major league level in a way that permits a kind of comfort. Like couple that with the fact that you have these kinds of monsters were regularly hitting one hundred ten mile an hour rockets at you in the old. I just think that the the clock of the big league game defensively especially at third base. Where you're so proximate to the To the plate takes a good while to set for a guy who's flew to the miners that he made a lot of that adjustment and allowed. Some of those strong traits will be arm and especially for in Iraq. I just calibrate a little bit better than the big league level of pretty natural progression that everyone was witnessing were these kind of promising raw materials formed into something that is not finished was certainly more than two more than we will. We'll let you get out of here on. The first is sort of a broader competitive window question. Which is you know. The Yankees are the Yankees. The rays have one of the best systems in baseball and the Blue Jays irs showing signs of their young core coming together. This team seemed to approach this off season with austerity mind. Resetting their luxury tax threshold and we can interrogate how useful a desire that is. Let's let's just take it at face value for a moment. Where does this team see itself long term in terms of its competitive landscape? And when do you think they might start to pull out that? Sturdy posture wrote the quote unquote. Austerity posture was equally. Are I think that they wanted to resent right like they're you know? They were in a position where they were maintained. Some of fifty and ninety five cents on the dollar for every dollar spent beyond the luxury tax threshold this coming year. And that they you know they they right to resent their penalty rates. In order to be able to feel better I think about their invite investments in the victory club. Roughly one out of every three years so actually answered that that part I they they reset in twenty seventeen. It got a lot of noticed at the time was quickly forgotten revised two years because they need massive investments in the aftermath of essentially the reset one year. Then they spend them to spend pretty aggressively in order vehicles around Roster right like David. Ortiz retire Acquired Chris Sale because that will allow them to eat Remaining under the luxury tax threshold within the next year JD Martinez the next year. Resign of all these signs in progress to the long-term zero so i. I think that they're probably in. This runs every three years cycle of getting under the luxury tax threshold. We'll have to see what the next. Cva Let's like shy in how that changes the incentives provincial. Stay in or get out of that cycle but I think that they like. There are additional penalties on top of the luxury tax threshold. That meant that if they were to maintain what was their twenty eighteen to twenty nine hundred levels of spending over the course of twenty twenty two twenty twenty two it would have ended up spending roughly a hundred million dollars more than if they got under. This year will return to the Priors ending levels in twenty twenty one right so like business owners care about one hundred laws. It's not around in. So there's there's that there's also a separate Which is you mentioned. The strong kind of Talon places that exist the Yankees the major league level. I'm not really the minor league level in more raise certainly with regards to both age leander upper levels of the farm system bluejays. They have a wave coming. The Red Sox did not have. We'll have some interesting upside. Plays moving into lower minute. They have a guy here agai their reach the upper levels as a as possible like an everyday guy in Navy didn't have above average every day or rotation regular pasta for the last problems so they serve need emergency back to the to their view as I'd sustainable competitiveness Reeves Zoo refilled the pipeline to jeter towns in the upper levels and for that matter lower levels by the trade of movie bats and David Price Day largely refilled with the upper levels. That is what they view are all serious needs to improve the inventory. Either Major League ready ripe for Dugo or mere major league ready with guys like you to downs in panel so I think they see themselves. Long-term as being they view themselves as being of competitors by acknowledging the engines are low on paper are of a much more impulsive projecting images this year and there was a degenerative Andres as well but I think they feel pretty good about where they were Medina Beyond or not GonNa let you get out of here without giving a prediction. So Al what. He is seeing his red SOx join. What's their record for? Twenty twenty one evacuee. We don't know how much time salesman now all right. Well okay. That's our let's see so I I had I had I had actually initially from one went ahead of where they were last year. They were eighty four. Zero is going to go in five however based on the fact that saleswoman. This is going to miss at least in my mind. I've I've kind of pegged again waiting for information on if he's missing six weeks to start the year two months than bumped down. I'm going with an eighty one winner. Judges I'll boy. Boston might burn down with that. Well you can follow along for the Boston season with Alex's writing at the Boston Globe and on twitter at Alex Spirit and you can order his book which I have read and Ken confirm his excellent homegrown. How the Red Sox built a championship from the ground up cycle. I'm sure they'll look to replicate and we'll have you back on soon. Thanks a lot. Alex right naked. Sam retyping do you does gets through. The giants went on and sixty to eighty nine. Grab cars and homes were TA and games or dissuading on two teams to now. We're going to discuss the San Francisco giants and do that. Hopefully Ryan's GONNA discuss. The giants. Cr was ready to do a very serious introduction off this one's been weighing on me all day. Make his all day. Yeah yeah tough. One Hits a tough one and to help us sort through that difficulty. We have invited friend of the PODCAST. Front all really a grant brisby of the athletic to join us and talk about some baseball grant. How are you? I'm doing very well buddy. If you can't talk about them for an hour or whatever like think about writing about them all year do you. I have I was wondering. Are you at an age now? I'm at that age and I feel like you might be. Are you in an age now where you can just kind of embrace a noncompetitive team like it's just like finally the world has quieting down and just relax in your couch and and throw all ambition aside and and just exist with a bunch of New People that you don't really know that well and like you can just embrace that like nothing's happening anymore? Yup It is. It's it's okay you know it's it's it's not so bad when they're not doing great it's a hand it's not so bad when they're not doing great Yeah let me part that I had I am under the weather so I was about to cough inside. Muted it in. So that's where the weather was pregnant pause. That was very awkward. It's not so bad when they're anyways. Yeah no I would prefer them to do well. It gets everyone more excited it gets. It's easier to write about a team. That's doing well a team that's thriving you've got your kind of feeding off of that that reader energy even if you're desperately desperately not reading the comments you still know what's there in theory and that is fun but it's also fun just to be like one of this. Mike You stransky Guy's GonNa work and then when it does a wink wink. This is fun you know. And there's no pressure there's no stakes you're not saying this guy's going to be around in an all star for five years. It's just fun and sometimes I like fun. Do you think that might be trump's? He's going to be around and in all star five years because that was like the great one of the great things about lad skiers that might stransky out hit Ronald Kunia and And like it was a huge heroic acquisition by far on and and same with Dickerson and same with Solano. Do any of those. Do you think that there's any any like lasted? I guess what I'm saying. Is that last year? There were positive takeaways during the season. Do you think that they are positive? Takeaways from last season for this season or were those little like a little chunks of cookie dough in the one milkshake. I I think that they are maybe not individually. I am not going to sit here. And say Oh. Yeah you stem ski. That guy is going to be just the glue of the twenty four giants. You you just sit and watch you know Donovan Solano. I don't remember the exact exact statistic but I think he's top ten of batting average and balls in of all time but like all time any team last year he was like four nineteen is heavy set the parameters for like two hundred plate appearances or something. He's up there top all time batting average on balls in play which probably isn't sustainable. But if you look at them like as a proof of concept that they're gonNA keep plugging people in and finding value where it it might have been a little hidden. They're going to dust off some some things from the Curio shop. I like the overall sort of. Yeah you know. They're going to try things and they generally have a pretty good idea of what makes a good baseball player compared to perhaps some of the other organizations in the League so as a whole it was encouraging. If you're going start nitpicking every individual player yet they all have their own little flaws and they were all available for reason but I think as a whole it sort of made everyone think okay. That's good work. I can see it. We coordinate our questions. We really tempted to play fast and loose on here. I don't know I don't know. I think it's perfectly fine to stumble around twenty twenty giants preview like you just. This is tyron model. Sometimes you hit Stransky. Sometimes you've got I don't know the equivalent does on the other side but Solano Yeah. He's the twelfth highest BABB SINCE THE DEAD BALL era writers in the live ball era and five of the ones ahead of him were in the nineteen twenties which was close to the baller. So seventh if you say since like the murderers row than he seventh which is one of those things where you kind of. Don't want to say it out loud to watch not a great indicator. Yeah I you know I appreciate his bat ball skills and there's a lot to like. He's good defensively versatile. Jags not GonNa do that again. All those babs from back then like they played with the like the skull of steer unpolished in everyone in the field. Think we talked about this. Last now everyone had rickets every single. Baseball player had the drops in rickets and they didn't eat vitamins in Liberia. Yes this why batting average on balls and plays so different back then because everyone was ganglion sickly but so Solano Great Greg Task. You're actually those are actual baseball questions. But can I. Can I steer US a little bit? Turn provides them staring so one thing that I think we all are curious about. Grant is your personal experience of the Gape Kappler era. And how has your life change since you were introduced to Gabe? Geffen as he made you work out with him yet. Nobody's made me work out with them. Come on I'd area. So yeah yeah well right now I do but no at first I was affected because I wrote about it and I got a lot of email messages some support of some not direct messages stuff like that and it was very much in my brain at all times now. I don't necessarily think about it. It's kind of I have the privilege to not think about it. It's it's not that comes across every time reviewing a lineup or thinking about a move the giants might make or what the batting order might be timmy. It's it's just like he's another manager right now. Insofar well you know there is one difference in that when the giants lineup is announced at Spring Training. It's very awkward. Because it's not. There's no booze really. It's just silence. And you're used to Bruce Bocce getting as loud of an ovation as like Pablo Sandoval or share hunter pence whatever. And now it's just sort of In it's a collective yeah you know and you know have heard a couple hecklers but it's generally not negative. It's just an absence of positive that that's a little strange other than that. I. I'm sure when he starts losing or if the giant unexpectedly start winning there will be a lot more discussion of the merits of one gig Adler but I mean when he got hired so much of the discussion in in what you wrote about and your immediate response to it was about the you know what he the way that he handled the salt. Case involving dodgers minor leaguers when he was in charge of the Farm System. And the you know sort of ongoing questions about that in the weather. He has demonstrated growth from that and so on. So I think that that was a lot of ways the most important conversation to have at the time and I sort of feel like lost in all that we didn't talk that much about what he is like as a manager what we've now seen from him as a manager and you know as all managers. I don't notice them that much. Over the course of the season they do thousands and thousands of of actions. That are out of my view in that I never really think about and so I don't have strong opinions about most managers. What I know about Kappler as a manager as phillies manager is that he got fired after two years and that he oversaw two teams that you know probably were considered to have underperformed and so if he weren't Gabler if it weren't a name that we knew I think people would be surprised to see that manager immediately. Get another job immediately. Get another shot. Especially if that's his only experience and so have you dug in much into his managerial style and how he did as a phillies manager in what differentiated him and whether you feel you know baggage aside whether you feel that he is like a good manager right. Yeah that's a fair question. I it does speak to his capabilities that the phillies GM. Which I don't think I've ever said this out loud Matt Cleantech. Clint cut. That's right. Okay Yeah I'm awesome. That he wanted it back he wanted. Kappler back in you know. That's the narrative at least that it was an ownership driven change the GM was totally on board and wanted to keep capital around in and also speaks to campers viability. That four hundred eighty. Who before this higher was generally in universally seen as sort of a guru sort of you know? He had his finger on something that hadn't been in San Francisco and a while that he was able to find these. These discarded gems that he was able to to reset kind of the whole minor league organization to have this newfound emphasis on patients that for whatever reason he was pushing all these right buttons in. He's a bright guy and affable guy and for whatever reason he thought Kappler was the guy to replace Bruce Bocce which is a hard job to fill that that's as beloved as a manager can be in a city and so when you're picking the replacement you want to be pretty darn sure you've got it right so he's got the backing of two. Pretty Smart Baseball Smarty Pants and when I dig into his style. I'm not sure how much to make of it. Because one of the things that's eighty said in his sort of a giant postmortem at the end of the year before we knew it was Kappler but Andy bagger elite. My colleague was listing and said Oh this sounds like Kappler and he said you know we're going to look at some managers who have maybe done this before with with limited success who might have learned from their mistakes and Kappler is very. He talks about the mistakes. He might have made where he came into it. Full Analytical Full Gist. Let's go let's. Let's do this by the numbers I can convince anyone. I can make a believer anyone just based on the numbers being right and then he realize well I got to back off on that just a little bit because these are humans you know he. He gave the sort of come to. I don't know what the opposite of Bill James's come to come to baseball as a moment where he said. Okay I need to get these guys to buy in to what I'm selling and I can do that was stats but I can also do that. With sort of individual approaches figuring out how to communicate with these guys in so he feels at the end of his phillies tenure that he was communicating a lot. Better and going by the stats and and doing this. Sort of thing where he's a new job sabre manager and he believes that he's found a balance right now whether or not that's the case it's the dream to have that Dallas. So whether or not he. He's done that. This remains to be seen. I will note that in the spring. The giants have been really wildly aggressive on the basis tagging up from second to third. No Fly Ball Taken off seconds when there's a ball in the dirt really really aggressive and I don't know if that's just a spring thing or if it's GonNa last but it's been fun to wash spring so this team last year kind of found itself in the awkward position of having a pretty good record around the trade deadline. They were famously reticent to undecided not to Trade Madison Bumgarner and then they did the thing that we all Kinda thought they would do which is not make the postseason in the second half so they were trying to learn something about themselves last year and now they're in a position where I think they're probably you know the the front offices. Understanding of their competitive position is probably in line with ownerships understanding. And so everyone is clear eyed and this is a season where they're going to also try to find out some stuff and they have a number of young dudes on the roster and then some pieces that are clearly not can be part of the next competitive giants team grant. What is like the most important thing for this twenty twenty giants team to find out about itself as it's looking ahead to? Its next competitive window. Good question I would say that. It's it's mostly how to fold in the next generation because this is that transition year where you're GONNA have Elliott Ramadan. Enjoy Bart in a perfect world jelly. You'RE GONNA try to fold them in to maybe contribute to a twenty twenty one team. That's going to contend. I don't know if you can guarantee that. The twenty twenty one giants will contend. It might be a little optimistic bud. They have a lot of young talent in some of it will be in. The upper miners have a fair amount of money to spend with Crawford Belt and some Arja. Their money's coming off the books after twenty twenty one. They might get a jump on that spending before they leave. You have in the recent history baseball starting with like the nationals. When they were so bad that could draft Strasbourg and Harper. And you saw that wave of talent coming and then it was sort of a year early. And that's been the pattern. I think with the cubs the astros the braves the twinned where you see that that crest prospects is sort of common up and you're pointing to and go a high that's GonNa come soon and then all of a sudden you're just soaked in prospects and fun and they're winning a year ahead of schedule. That's like the best case scenario for the giants so if that even has a remote chance of happening it's definitely not the likeliest scenario but if it has a chance they're going to figure out the players in their minor league system that they can count on for next year whether that's Joey Barred Jelly Ramos. Anyone in everyone who can help. They're just figuring out how fold them in this year as organically as possible. Remember Ben wrote a piece a number of years ago about teams with old lineups and I believe he found that the teams that had the oldest lineups in the league. It was usually either. They were in a really good spot like they were the favorites that like their players were all mature and awesome or they were in really bad. Spot and giants last year had the oldest average hitter age in baseball. Despite being you know theoretically semi rebuilding. And they're going to be really old this year too. If you just for the most part they've still got Posey and bell and Crawford and Longoria who are all in their mid thirties and the breakouts last year the you know the quote unquote young breakouts. Last year were like Stransky is going to be twenty nine and Dickerson is going to be thirty and hunter pence's back and there's another thousand years worth of players that I haven't even named they're very old and I assume I mean you know not not. I assume it is a fact that a goal of this next few years for the giants will be to get to the far side of that leaderboard into one of the youngest teams at the end of this. How long is it GonNa take to to get young? Do you think given who they have in. Sort of what the organizational depth is. What do you envision it being like for the next couple of years? It's not gonNA be so easy to get young because other than Bart in other than awesome outfielders. I'm not seeing a shortstop third baseman First Baseman who you can plug in for twenty twenty one and say oh. Yeah that guy's GonNa be ready. I don't worry about that so you you bought Longoria some time Crawford a little bit of time belt a little bit of time. Crawford might be the closest to getting replaced because Marie Soo do von does play a competent shortstop and that transition is probably gonNA start taking place this year. Where you're GONNA see on it in there a lot against tough left-handers and then it might be. If he's doing well enough you might see it sort of progress to all left-handers and and then if you see it progress a little bit while he's in for some right handers to. They're trying to make him into this neo. Chris Taylor where he's he's in center field is in second he's he's a short but I also think that there's an opportunity for him if he's hitting well to sort of quietly assimilates shortstop position and that that might work Crawford. I don't see anything on the horizon for Longoria for belt with Posey pretty obvious. You've got Bart right there. It's going to be up at some point this year unless something really screw happens injury wise or performance wise so you can see that transition. That's going to start to take place and it's it's not a bad thing when you have two catchers to fight for playing time because you want as much as possible but it's not gonna be an overnight thing we're just like you wake up. Wow everyone's twenty-five it's it's GonNa take it you know it's not just the legacy players that don't have necessarily the best guys to to fill in for those legacy players just yet and I mean. Is it your expectation that Posey and belt and Crawford and Longoria will all finish their contracts as giants that like? There's not a sense that they're a month and a half of you know like one hot month and a half away from being traded or anything like that. I could definitely see belt getting traded especially with the fences coming in and more importantly for belts coming down. You know he's not going to have to hit over a seventy eight foot high wall or whatever to get it out right center at least two to the deepest part of Right-center so I can see you know. He looks great this spring. I could see his numbers being superficially better. Last year was down year by any metric. I could see him getting back to the level. He was before that where. If you adjusted for Ballpark he was pretty darn okay. And if the giants enough money it's not like he's making thirty million he's he's he's under twenty and if the giant some of that. I could definitely see him helping a team. That has a need that comes up with an injury or a disappointing performance. You know I've always. I've been putting him on the Yankees for like three years now. It's like come on. Yeah he's just here to take the belt. Let them free. He's he's his feathers too. Bright for this cage. Come on come on. Just take a ticket brandon bell so I can see that finally happening this year Crawford not so much. I don't think there's that magic combination of we will pay this down for a better prospect Longoria. He's under contract. I think for three more years which is hard to believe. Posey'S GONNA stick around until he basically forces a trade. I don't see him going anywhere while he's under contract. So belt would be a yes. Longoria probably Crawford probably not in Posey pretty much no way. I'll talk about Bart for a second because you say he's come up this year and I'm curious you expect his timeline to look clearly the service time consideration. Because he's not going to be a contending team and I imagine they're reticent to start his clock but also he you know he was injured like in the fall rate. So how has he looked in spring so far and Wendy? I think that we might see him in San Francisco. He looked good in the spring. As far as you can see his in Game Bauer. I do think that the giants will bring them up whenever they think that he's ready to assume a starting job. I don't think they're going to Dick around with the service time of you know they haven't done that in the past a notes a new front office but it hasn't necessarily been their mo it certainly hasn't come from ownership so it's going to be when he's ready to starter the end. I do believe that there's enough concern with his hit tool that you don't want to jump on that right away we're talking. I don't know a hundred two hundred at bats above able. He wasn't so great in a ball he had an extended slump in San Jose and there was some concern that the second or third time around the colleague that some pitcher some coaches sorta new where they should pitch him when he got to the Eastern League. Everyone forgotten you. Start drinking again to get to the Arizona Fall League and they're not necessarily going on in-depth Scouting report so they might not have known but once you get the book on them. I don't know maybe he someone you can you can pitch to. I don't know if that's the case but the giants do want to figure this out before they just throw them in there like ear. Magsino you are the starting catcher forever. Just you know figure out how to hit while you're up there and I'm pretty sure they don't WanNa do that. And I'm sorry if I poked at an open wound with the the Mike Zito comparison. But that's sort of what people are warning about Joey. Bart. I'm curious. So there's there's that situation and then there is this outfield logjam probably too strong. But how do you see the the outfield for this team? Sorting itself out in two thousand twenty. Because when you and I have talked off line in our super secret communications where I ask you to that. The rest depth charts. You've indicated there might be some moving around out there. Tell us about the moving around out there. Grant it's GonNa be it's GonNa be of very very. They're going to be open to a lot of different permutations I think that Alex dickerson hunter pence or sort of mirror images of each other where you have concerns about them. Getting four hundred plate appearances. You have concerns about them. Getting two hundred plate appearances. But you sort of hope you're GONNA get three hundred from both of them and you're going to maximize those plate appearances to to maximize their strengths. And so I I see them as two components of like one piece dickerson pants. You know might not be a strict platoon of just those two guys. But in another more cosmic sense yeah. Shirts basically strict platoon Yastrzemski. They're going to use is like a roving utility full-time starter. So he might be in Centerfield. Sometimes he's going to be in right field. Allot the opponent left when they need to. You know he's probably going to be in the lineup unless he really start to struggle in this season against left. Handed pitching overall. I think they're they believe that he can help. Whether it's on the basis whether it is in the field that he's generally an overall solid player in so many aspects that he's going to be out there almost every day and that leaves that sort of floating you know whoever's going to be the third outfielder because you're not gonNA have dickerson and pence start at the same time. So is it going to be Billy Hamilton? At Center it could be released. If taken a shine to him in spring training. It might be someone like Austin slater where he's really doesn't have much to prove in triple eight east consistently raked in. Triple A. is that approach. Ever GonNA play enough for him to be a starting corner outfield in in the majors. Probably not but you might see a lot of them because it did for until like September. Last year he looked good he had like a. Ogsm nine hundred but he looked good until he just completely fell into a canyon in September. So you're going to have those guys. Jalen Davis might be up. Stephen Duggar he's kind of like the projected starter in center. You just don't know what you're GONNA get for him. Even before he was hurt last year he was one of the all-time worst offensive outfielders in giants history. Which is like not the greatest bullet point on your Lincoln. So they've got options. They're going to take a look at Elliot Romo's he's he's on the shelf with an oblique tweak but he might be someone who if he's just totally raking and and moving up levels you might see him in July instead of September? You might see them take a chance on on him sooner rather than later depending on on all this stuff so it's very very pliable. Just they've got so many different ways to plug it in. You can just basically count on trump's keep getting a lot of playing time and Pinson dickerson as much as their bodies. Well now see it you said that Dickerson in Pennsylvania Mirror images of each other and my my brain thought will hundred Penza very distinctive looking human being so that seems crazy and I know what you mean but I have a brain that works in a funny way and you look Alex Dickerson early. This is less different than I expected it to be. He's got he's got a little goof- goofed. Grace Goof and I mean a positive way. He's Oh yeah we're on this back east slightly awkward and all the right ways and yet there's a lot there's a lot of penske similarities where last year it was like. Hey this is like dollar store pence. We got them so now. They've got both completed. The set okay granted. I have two more questions for you before we pursue to predict a record for this team. So I'm I'm previewing. That question which I know you knew was coming by. Just WanNa give you time to think about it while you're answering other stuff. The first of which is that. This team did something. A Little Ole nifty while we can decide if we think it's nifty earlier this off season when they they did some trades with they did a trade with the angels and they acquired as part of that trade the angels of Schroeder from US Joe Wilson. And I'm curious if you think that this is GonNa be if these sort of trades are going to be part of their strategy to continue to supplement young talent around the guys that they already have in their farm system. Should we expect more business? Thinks it just makes so much sense. The giants are they. Don't have a two hundred million dollar payroll right now. Because they can't afford it they they have a payroll below that because they just aren't GonNa Start Slapping veterans on this team. And pretend like it's normal so when you have that sort of surplus why not sort of by a prospect. It's it's such a novel idea. Few teams actually do it and I will say that after. I believe. It's after the twenty twenty one season have in front of me but there's one year where it just opens up and all that's on the payroll. Is Evan Longoria? Yeah and it's like. Oh you know. That's it'll be once the race. Subsidies factored in like fifteen million is what they're gonNA. Oh Evan Longoria and they're gonNA have US effectively one hundred eighty five million dollars to spend and I mean that's a little simplistic but they will have all this excess cash in. It's not like you can just go to Costco in lump all the best players into a car like that's just not possible even if they did. WanNa come they might not be available? It's just so hard to spend the all in one all season on everyone. That's GonNa make the team the franchise better for the years to come in exactly the blueprint. You've detailed they're gonNA spend on one free agent to free agent some really good free agents. But they'll still have someone that surplus in even if the minor leaguers start coming up at the pace that's expected. I would anticipate them. Maybe using some of that excess cash to pay. Give us your will Wilson. We'll take reads cards Coz Art okay sure and we'll just release him right afterward I mean that's that's gotta be the plan if you have all that excess cash in an ownership group that seems to believe in your vision. Yeah in twenty twenty one smarter. Become a free agent Kevin Gals Manner Smiley Pence Tony Watson and then the year after that belts Crawford and Tyler Anderson. Come off the books. Oh Tyler Anderson the summer try anything at all and then they have club options on quite oh. Posey and warmer floor as in that year which we imagine will not be exercised. I was GONNA say that. Wilson's like the free sample. But that's not true because they had to take covert get him so. This is not a free sample at all. He's very expensive sample. This is going off. You're costco analogy so goes the time share owned. We'll Wilson's like the Nice vacation. Yeah yes that part's true. So with that sort of look ahead to their free agent situation in mind. I'm curious how you think of this team positions in its own division because obviously they continue to have to deal with the dodgers they. Have you know a sort of resurgent? D-backs team they have a Padres Team. That is willing to spend money in a really deep farm the giants they WANNA bunch of world series in the last decade. But some of those maybe a little bit lucky so. I'm curious how they sort of see themselves progressing in division that has one heavyweight is probably primed to have a couple more when it's all said and done although they continue to get to play against the rocky so they have that going for them. Do they do except they still have to? Of course veiled which is entirely brutal. Yeah I really honestly believe their template is to be the dodgers dodgers north to spend like the dodgers to develop like the dodgers to be the dodgers that is their goal and it might not be quite they might not people to pull it off to that. Extreme they might. So if they want to re-sign their version of Clayton kershaw Kenley Jansen and Justin Turner. They might say okay. We'll just we can't afford all three. So we will sign Clayton Kershaw in Justin Turner or Kenley Jansen. And just you know. They'll they'll have to mix and match when it comes to those huge huge huge contracts to keep the familiar place around otherwise. I think that's the template day they're going to want to be in the middle of every free discussion. They're going to want to have such an incredibly viable pipeline. That they're not going to need. Every last free agent that comes down they would like to be in the discussion for Garrett Cole also being like the dodgers and and not overbidding or or playing their hand to to get him. I think that's the template and they have the resources they have the money. They've got this huge real estate development. That going up around the Ballpark. That should be an infusion of cash. The BALLPARK's paid off. They want to be the dodgers in the commitment of the ownership. Society's vision was. I really believe that they said okay. Just burn it down the way you see fit build it back up and then we can start spending in being like those jerks down south. When do you think will be the first year they actually have a better record than the dodgers? 'cause it has not happened in seven years even though they were winning world series. Do you think that they have? I mean if you had to bat would you bet they will finish ahead of the dodgers more than once in the next decade. Yeah I would say so. I would say you get enough lead time. They're they're GONNA start trading body posed with them. I you know once you start to get the dodgers. Maybe there's going to be one of these years for the not spitting out only stupid prospects fully formed in. You know maybe that happens. One of the. Isn't that part of the dodgers? That's part of being the dodgers's spitting out stupid prospects fully-funded but the giants are supposed to do this in this scenarios. I'm the voice of optimism. Here I could see them once. They're fully a fully functional death star. Yes they're going to have prospects to compete with the dodgers. They're going to have the financial resources to compete. For the dodgers. I would rather be the giants in the giants position than the padres in that might see. I know there's a padres fan right now. He's just punching his computer or phone and I don't mean that like a rude way I just see the padres are. They built up this incredible depth in their organization. But at some point they're not gonna be able to spend quite as much as their rivals. It's the hospital Machado that they've really sort of tried to prepare for this moment but I don't know how many of those are going to have left especially if they perform like Air Costner's performed like there might be some reticence from ownership group whereas I see the giants once they get going if they get going being just a tiny bit more sustainable. And maybe maybe. I'm just being a little bit too optimistic about their financial resources. Once they get going but I don't I don't think so I don't know Babe. Ruth has the all time record for highest in the live ball. Era Really playing back. And he would you know squid. I too many records. That guy had too many records. He's getting records that are not in his category. He's a time traveler hoax all right. I think we're ready predictions. He's a hoax. I I'm only big. I don't I don't believe that I don't think that's on the up and up. Yeah I've case before. I think it was a hoax that got out of hand and and then people over the years forgot that they knew that it was a hoax. And now it's it's a legend that we think is true. Yes but that's a that's a different episode on one. I'd be interested in recording what you have to wait 'til bengals vacation again. So hey grant. How many games are the giants winning? I'm GONNA go forty. They're going to look forty. Forty forty and forty eight because of all the Games cancelled because of quarantines and stuff. Oh Jeez Yeah No. I'm just I'm feverish right now. Then I'm not. It's not baseball fever. It's like a literal fever. So how many times have you touch base since we've possible? Stop I would like to say I have had the exact opposite experience of it. Sounds like both of you and also the whole world where I was told. You need to stop touching your face by the. Cdc and I went. Well I'll never do it. I touched my face constantly. All the time never stop. I love to touch my face and I just stopped and it's been wonderful. I have never felt stronger. More empowered. I have an issue on my nose and I just don't scratch it and it goes away and I feel like I have cracked the code. This is the first thing in my life that I felt good at damn. Wow Yeah I'd do flights in the whole time it's like don't touch your face. Don't touch your face on my foot in my mouth like I I just. I'm not good at it at all. I Yeah I mean like my purchase has been to wash my hands constantly because I know I'm GonNa fail at the not touching my face thing so probably gonNA lose all the skin on my hands and then it's like. Is that helpful? This is a great thing to joke about. We're going to look back in like A. We can be like. That was a mistake. So everyone joking. We're we're raising awareness. Though because I feel like like my my pride maybe on the line here. Where does the face start because I have? I do still put my hand on my neck. Kinda under the sort of the base of my Chin. So there's no contact with the ridge of the Chen but like I'm still leaning on my neck so it's in the area but I'm not touching my fate. That's okay right like you. Just have to keep it away from the fluid zones work is free like just stay away from those orifices black or horrify black bear orifices orifices or Porpoises Anyway Grand. But my prediction is going to be would I'm trying to do math. Seventy Ninety two. So I think they'll win. Seventy two so seventy four in eighty eight. That is my prediction. Will people can follow you. I'm sure that everyone who listens to this podcast In case you don't he's on twitter at Grant. Brisby you can find his writing at the athletic grant. Thanks for hanging out. Stop touching your face Taman Betterman. Thank you all right. That'll do it for today and that'll do it for this week. Thank you for listening. You can support effectively wild on PATRIAE GOING. Patriot dot com slash effectively wild following five listeners. Have already signed up and pledge some small monthly amount to help keep the pass going and to get access to a few special perks long way. Those listeners are married as mark black. Jeff skelly Tony Adams and Josh Munich. Thank you you can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash groups slash wild and you can rate review and subscribe to the podcast on. Itunes and other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me. Salmon ben coming via email at podcast at Fonterra dot com or via the Patriot messaging system. If you're a supporter already. Thanks to Higgins for his editing. Assistance will be back next week with more until then have a great weekend and remember to wash become just move wind day.