61: Kellogg v. Kellogg
This episode is brought to you by mastercard michigan called battle creek and until the late eighteen hundreds. It wasn't known for much. There were two rivers in the middle of town. One of them was more like a creek. It was home to many seventh day adventists and in eighteen ninety s. There were also two brothers living there. The older of the two by eight years. John harvey kellogg one of the most famous physicians in the country. If not the world howard marquel has written a book about the kelloggs called the battling brothers of battle creek. That would be will and john harvey john. Harvey was golden child. He everything he did was great. Went away to new york to medical school to the bellevue hospital medical college. So he was the exciting man that everybody loved and admired but his little brother will. He was shy and insecure. Everyone in his family thought he was dumb. He needed glasses and didn't know that till he was twenty years old price sitting in the back he couldn't see the where and he was called an imbecile dimwit. His father didn't want to send him to school after the age of ten. Because there's no point if you ever brother or sister than you've probably experienced a little sibling. Rivalry tom that star wars comic book episode one. It's mine but for john harvey and will. It was different from a young age. John harvey basically wage psychological warfare on his brother. He tattled every time. We'll stepped out of line. He beat him up. He verbally abused him. They fought for so long and did so much damage to one another and those leave scars. Of course you've heard of the kellogg's one of these brothers has name spelled out in bright red cursive. In grocery stores around the world on boxes of rice krispies mini wheats and cornflakes from business insider. This is brought to you by brand cuban brand now stories. You don't. I'm charlie herman. Mcdonald's will john harvey kellogg made each other's lives miserable. They bullied each other as adults. They stole from each other as business partners and his corporate rivals. Their disagreements escalated all the way to the michigan state supreme court but the kellogg's were also were brilliant. Team john harvey's medical theories helped improve. The health of americans will was an ingenious businessman who created a whole new standard for marketing and branding. Together the kellogg brothers changed the way we eat breakfast. But which kellogg is the one we remember today. Stay with us in the early eighteen ninety s. The kellogg brothers worked together at a health retreat in battle creek culture sanitarium. It was john harvey's brainchild by that point. He was an accomplished doctor who toured around the country and written dozens of articles and books and performed many operations. He had to be the major dumb of his sanitarium. Again howard marquel. He's meticulously research and reconstructed john harvey and will kellogg's lives using old letters scrapbooks legal depositions interviews and other john harvey had to be charge. He was the conductor of the dam and To a lot of his employees he was quite difficult especially you displeased him to his guests to his patients. You will most wonderful men on. Her patients came to the sanitarium from all over the country. Dr john harvey kellogg ran special exercise classes. They would've sounded like this and move them eight or ten inches down and up at each count that he begin. One hundred who jazzercise anyone bill. The patients individual he went into the dining room and had dinner with people. Who are eating the kellogg way to do at every meal. Dr kellogg or someone. He appointed made sure guests chewed everybody food at least forty times before swallowing to help countdown. The time they sang the song you can hear it recreated in the road to well ville a semi historical comedy about the sanitarium a lot of the people who came to the battle creek. Sanitarium had bad stomachs or ulcers. Are that great american disease. Constipation and indigestion dispe pepsico and if you think of what. Americans eight that daniel lot heavily fried and fatty foods. You know very heavy foods. There is no light diet. No kale salads. No kale no roughage dr. john. Harvey kellogg was america's general in its war against constipation. He his troops bland meals with nuts foods and dense whole grains. He encouraged them to make big lifestyle changes and he also had theory is something called auto intoxication. I love this. That food products beat products. Particular would stay in your gut fester and pollute your body and give off poisons toxins that would make you feel bloated and constipated depressed stupid. All sorts of blamed everything on flesh-eating flesh eating and smoking alcohol caffeine none of which were loud john harvey sanitarium. Oh and one other thing very much against. But he called a solitary vice of masturbation. We don't give that medical vice anymore. I can assure you. But at the time. John harvey's ideas were not considered fringe or bizarre. They were groundbreaking. His research on diet was nominated for nobel prize in medicine or physiology. People were just obsessed with constipation. A good bob movement was the most important thing in american life. Nobody talks about that. But i can assure you having spent seven or eight years reading about this stuff was really on the minds of a lot of people. At the time even presidents of the united states. John harvey kellogg treated william. How taft warren g harding calvin coolidge. Fdr and on and on and on who came to battle creek for free. of course. thomas. Edison henry ford used to come milia air. Art booker t. Washington eleanor roosevelt. The comedian eddie cantor. They stayed on the sanitarium sprawling state of the art campus. They could roam the rolling hills visit zoo and attend lectures and performances. It had three different gymnasia. It had massages of every kind under the sun sun and water bass and an enema room. Or you could get all kinds of animals. It had all kinds of examination rooms operating rooms laboratories and patient john harvey took full credit for the sanitarium and its success. He did not run it alone. In fact without the help of his younger brother will john. harvey probably would've run it into the ground. He hired him as a twenty year. Old to really be what we'd call today the cto the operating officer of this vast sanitarium. Which had you know thousands of rooms and bedsheets and maids orderlies and the seuss's and cooks of what have you will kellogg managed all of that staff and on top of that he helped launched the sanitarium spin off businesses like a publishing company a clothing line and eventually breakfast foods and despite the fact he was incredibly good at what he did. He was constantly being derided undercut by john. Harvey kellogg who was grandiose and great to everyone else but took it all out on his little brother. This was not a wholesome case. Two brothers keeping it in the family and going into business together now. This was one incredibly powerful man taking advantage of the fact that his little brother was desperate and out of a job. for years john. Harvey wouldn't allow will to have his own office at the sanitarium he had will follow him around the notepads so he could jot down every one of his genius ideas and that meant when john harvey wrote his bike around the sanitarium campus will would have to run alongside to keep up with them. Even when john harvey paused for one of his five daily bowel movements he would make will come into the bathroom with him to take notes as he dictated so he would miss a single golden thought. And that really. I think explains relationship to it and we'll was quiet but he hated he hated. Most weeks will work seven days a week at the sanitarium logging hundreds of hours away from his family and when he asked for a day off even on christmas his big brother would call him lazy. I mean he would say really harsh mean things to him to work seven days a week and be told you're lazy. Why do you think john was so cruel to him. Because he could and there was a mean streak in john where he liked to dominate people and he was very good like a lot of bullies of knowing who's he considered to be weak or at least somebody he could. Bali successfully will had five kids and a mortgage to worry about so he kept working for his brother. And even though john harvey would never admit it wills. involvement was crucial to the success of the sanitarium. Dr kellogg may have been the charmer the draw for the rich and famous but it was will who made sure that the sanitarium could pay its bills beginning in the eighteen ninety s. The brothers tried to make a cereal grain product that was easily digest today. We all know what cereal is. You might have eaten a bowl this morning. But in eighteen nineties with john harvey and will we're trying to create a brand new thing pre cooked ready to eat safe breakfast cereals did not exist at. I will was not convinced john. Harvey's latest obsession was a good use of his time. Brother was asking him to spend hours crouched under a hand crank. Roller catching flattened. Dough and chiseling off. tiny flakes john. Harvey had this idea that if you baked grain at an extremely high heat it's complex sugars and starches with breaking down and make an easier to digest firstly worked on wheat cereals and they foiled in big they broke it up into little tiny crumbs and that was popular but it took a long time before they figure out how flake cereal the story of how the kellogg's came up with wheat. Flakes is different depending on who you believe john harvey said the recipe was revealed to him in a dream. His wife said she helped him come up with it and will insistent. It was a partnership between him and john. Whatever did happen someone. They left some dough overnight. It got a little sil- and bakers will call that tampering dough. The water content of the doe evens out. And then you bake it. At a high heat you can break it up into flakes as opposed to crumbs. That was a eureka moment. It was the invention of flake. Cereal debuted their creation and the sanitariums dining room and guests lined up. For seconds and thirds the eight flakes with milk cream and yogurt and by all accounts. Dr kellogg's we flakes made their bowel movements like clockwork. And who doesn't like to be regular doctor. Kellogg may have been a medical prodigy but he was bad at branding. He called the first ever breakfast. Cereal grandma's which like some of his other names were foods he created granola nuthouse. Proce did not sound particularly exciting or delicious. It didn't matter people love. The cereal will set up a makeshift factory at the sanitarium and started selling the flakes. In ten ounce packs for fifteen cents each in its first year production. The brothers sold over one hundred thirteen thousand pounds of cereal both at the sanitarium and through mail order in the creation of the wheat flakes in the cereal that's being sold at the sanitarium in the history of food. How if a deal is this. It was a huge deal because all of a sudden you could have an instant breakfast poured on a box. Pour milk on eat it. Even dad could make breakfast used. That lied so many times with it. Always gets a laugh if you think of what a housewife had to do to make breakfast and eighteen ninety s. She had to start the woodstove. She made oatmeal which were whole grain. Oats you had to cook death for an hour more to barra leaguer or rice. That took time if you fry it up. Things like sausages or bacon Or potatoes raw us early morning. This took time and suddenly you freed up a couple hours with a cheap nutritious and tasty breakfast at first will working on the wheat flakes dough because his brother told him to but the notes not left behind show that he became as invested in perfecting wheat flakes. As his brother he kept track of every batch affleck see produced and paid attention to which variables humidity length of baking time temperature produced the crispus. Cereal he obsessed over the machinery and help come up with a special roller that flatten the dough to the perfect thickness and consistency in eighteen. Ninety-five will's brother filed a patent for the flake cereal and the method of preparing it. But there was only one name on the application john. Harvey kellogg healed the patent. But does that mean. He was the inventor of it. Yeah well he would say. Of course he would and that will was as secretary just took orders and he was just a lackey. It was his idea was his thought process. You know cetera et cetera. John harvey knew he had a big discovery on his hands but to wills great frustration. John harvey wasn't that interested in turning wheat flakes into a big commercial enterprise. He cared more about its health benefits than the massive amounts of money will thought they were leaving on the table. Doctors that time had to be very careful of putting their names on products or advertising them if they wanted to be accepted by the high class elite. Not the quacks but the people at johns hopkins are harvard. People the ama or the american college of surgeons and despite john's wackier views he wanted dearly to be accepted by the medical profession the established medical profession and he Did not want to be ostracized. So if you advertise products you'd get in a lot of trouble back by the late. Eighteen nineties the kellogg's makeshift factory at the sanitarium was too small to keep up with orders. For dr john. Harvey kellogg famous grants will had to rent out a two story building downtown but the brothers had another problem on their hands. One of their kitchen assistance had stolen their recipe and was selling a brand new serial right under their noses in battle creek. That man was charlie or cw host. And as far as will could tell john harvey didn't plan to do anything about it. That's after the break. Local businesses are so much more than the goods they sell. That's my mastercard is offering them tools they may need to thrive online like digital doors an online curriculum that gives local businesses the resources and guidance to enhance their presence in the digital economy. So they can start their digital journey with the support. They need to succeed online and keep impacting their communities. Visit mastercard dot us slash digital doors to learn more together. Let's start something priceless. We're back. When john harvey kellogg invented wheat flakes in innovation. Ready to eat cold breakfast. Cereal it change the world because breakfast is you know very important meal in the day and it changed the way we start our day collectively and our customers weren't the only ones to take note. In the years. After john harvey received his patent for wheat flakes people started showing up and checking out battle creek for any possible business ventures by nineteen o five one hundred and one new cereal companies have been established in the city and the one posing the biggest threat to will and john harvey's business was charlie post. The man who founded hosts cereals. The eighteen nineties charly post was a broken down thirty six year old businessman and he came to battle creek to try to heal a bad stomach. Couldn't even afford to stay at. The sanatorium is too expensive so he stayed at one of the boarding houses. He actually worked in the kitchen to try to pay his way and there. He learned several of the recipes. Host ripped off a few of john harvey and wills creations before we ever got to their flaked cereal but the one that really got the brothers attention was a cereal called nuts. it was basically the same as one that the kellogg's had created but was some sweetener added. Something john harvey would never have done all told by. Nineteen hundred. Host was making around three million dollars a year over ninety million dollars. In today's money we went. Nuts will hate it you. We're giving away money. These are our products. We ought to make our own in mass advertise. He knew this in the early nineteen hundreds they had many battles over. This and john said you know. I can't advertise. And wilson will allow advertise will use my name. But no we can't do any held them back and so Kelloggs cornflakes or the santa's cornflakes that were made out of the sanitarium or selling hundreds of thousands of boxes a year while cw post right down. The road was selling millions and millions of vices year. Well john harvey took the high road insisting he didn't care what posted as long as a series. Were helping improve. People's digestion will on the other hand could not let it go will hate it post and post once called. We'll logging dirty dog and we'll kellogg said well. You know what dirty dogs do post. I don't know if he actually said that or he had would write that lie. But it's pretty good now. He and they both hated each other. The imagine inventing it or cohen vetting and sing another guy steal it and make millions of dollars. Aw that's not a good feeling now. It's like i could do that. I mean literally literally. I did do that now. John harvey had his own show going so he was fine he had adulation he had success but will who is now in his forties and was still a lackey saw. This is his great great opportunity in the early nineteen. Hundreds will started experimenting with a new kind of cereal. He played with different ingredients like salt. Sugar which john harvey would have never get away with on his watch. We'll try different. Baking temperatures any abandoned his brother's week to produce a masterpiece golden flakes of cornflakes were wills breakthrough. He knew they tasted good. Better than wheat flakes. And he knew his brother would never agree to market them so after twenty five years of working for his brother will made one of the biggest decisions of his life in nineteen o five. He offered to buy his brother cereal business including the rights to manufacture and sell his brand new cornflakes. John harvey was in debt and wasn't interested in selling and marketing his cereals himself so he said yes. And it's forty six. We'll kill began. His battle creek toasted conflict company. Which we now know international kellogg's. We'll kill it. Could finally get himself an office. He'd be the boss of his own business and he was ready to make some money. He asked all his employees to sign nondisclosure agreements and he stationed a guard outside his factories. Front door to prevent the charlie posts of the world from sneaking in and stealing his ideas because it turns out we'll kellogg's knowledge pat effectively run and business. This big that was invaluable. He understood operations. He understood machinery. He already knew about accounting methods and and inventory methods and then he understood and studied how grocery stores were will knew. He had to make his brand household named with american mothers. Who did most of the shopping at that time. So he spent millions of dollars advertising in major magazines newspapers and ladies journals one campaign told women to go to the grocery store and wink at your grocer. You'll get a free box of cereal. Which nineteen ten is pretty racy. Stock wall eventually will started working with the famous. Leo burnett advertising agency in chicago which worked on mascots for his kid. Friendly cereals sugar ralston. Grower tony the tiger. Where not practical dying. Bet you don't know the name of the rooster on a box of cornflakes morning both cornelius. Cornelius gorn how important was advertising. It was essential. It took a tiny little company in battle creek into everybody's home all around the country and later the world growing up in oakland california. I had heard about creek. I knew it was where all these cereal companies were. Based because i saw it on the side of the boxes i read while eating my fruit loops. I couldn't understand why now i do. So it's interesting for very insecure beaten down forty six year old man. Most people don't embarked on a successful career at that age. He had that feeling. Why does anybody who's excess. Become a success successful hard work talent but also you have to have a feeling deep in your gut. I can do this. And i think that's what he felt. As will cereal business grew. Thanks in part to cornelius and snap crackle and pop. He did something that is brother. Decided was unforgivable. He put the name kellogg on his cereal boxes and he started signing his work on every box and big swoopy read cursive. W k kellogg. John harvey kellogg just lost it. He hated here. The fact that will was doing well. You hid in the fact that it was his invention behavior the fact that he was using the name kellogg in their signatures. Actually were even somewhat similar if you look at them They look a lot of lake and so he just went nuts so he started making his own cereal. Pretty dad cereal rice flake cereal installing it. Kellogg's after the break. This little cereal town wasn't big enough for two kellogg's stay with us. Local businesses are so much more than the goods they sell. That's my mastercard is offering them tools they may need to thrive online like digital doors an online curriculum that gives local businesses the resources and guidance to enhance their presence in the digital economy. So they can start their digital journey with the support. They need to succeed online and keep impacting their communities. Visit mastercard dot us slash digital doors to learn more together. Let's start something priceless. We're back in nineteen thousand. Nine hundred eight will kellogg was spending millions of dollars a year. Marketing is kelloggs cornflakes under the name. The kellogg toasted cornflake company when his older brother released a worst product with a really similar name. Kellogg's food company. I mean quick pop quiz. Can you remember whose company was called. I can't and i have a script in front of me so we'll want to confront the brother. Who bullied him since childhood wilson. Please stop the went to his house. He asked him is a brother. John was a real squirrelly guy. Very hard to nail down was real hard to do business with. He said sure. I'll stop and then in another conversation with threaten copyright. The name kellogg's himself. John told will he could keep using the family name if he paid him. Half a million dollars worth of stock in his company anyway by nineteen ten nineteen eleven will had had it and he asked to a judge to put an injunction against harvey kellogg for making a kellogg's branded serial. The kellogg brothers were going to court at stake was millions of dollars both men's reputations and the name they shared who owned the name kellogg was it john harvey the world famous doctor or will his kid brother the cornflake king. I mean it was. It was epic. I these two brothers fighting fighting in the press or so ugly. You know. I was really hoping netflix's would buy my book because it's such great series. Actually we agreed so. We hired actors to play. The roles of john. Harvey will k. Kellogg was will. I contend now as i did and the judge ordering my court the case went to trial in one thousand nine hundred ten john. Harvey was the heavy favourite but the doctor was a bad witness. I he's very arrogant varies no town of any size in the united states that has not sent people to the sanitarium and he's very invested in being the doctor john harvey kellogg the author of sixteen books. Translated you know. Hundreds of languages international lecture an expert and so on in fact from all parts of the world australia new zealand south africa all parts of england and south america. And he's also. We doesn't like to be contradicted by a lawyer. He's real setup for a smart lawyer to see things to get angry. The kind of witness that across examining attorney logs the of lawyers dread if they're representing the because they just talked too much. John harvey was all over the place on the witness stand. He went from defensive and sarcastic. Kind of deeply reflective about his personality and flaws strong willed puck nationless controversial and skeptical. I keep these unpleasant traits under reasonable control. But when i get worn out they become conspicuous and i appear to very poor advantage right but if you are doing a cross examination of you love you love. We'll k. kellogg did it while in my employ and i did it because he worked for me and he asked my consensus do it and wills turn on. The stand was much less theatrical. A very yes. No kinda guy. I couldn't stay i don't know and just as you know. Mohammed ali did. The robot will be very good. Deposing lawyer was asking questions. I don't recall that that may have happened. I think i did. But i'm not positive i couldn't say i am unable to stay at the time and we'll what frankly wasn't above like on the stand you know. Do you think your brother is famous for his work in nutrition. Not quite sure about well. Of course you are. Come up with even to this day. I didn't know the daca kellogg had any reputation as a dietitian or as an innovator in food products helped boots. And i mean that what tell you about will's character. Well we'll love to win. And as he became more and more successful winning was more important than almost anything in one thousand nine eleven. The brothers reached an out of court. Settlement will own the celtics trademark. But he would still let his brother call his business. The kellogg food company but only as long as john harvey kept the name off his cereal boxes will wanted to make sure that none of his customers were buying the wrong kellogg's by accident and that didn't sit well with John harvey kellogg. Now they reached the detente for a while but then they kept fighting again for the next ten years or so when the national press reported on what happened next they call it the battle of the brand still obsessed with his quest engineer. The perfect bowel movement. John harvey started experimenting with the product. He called sterilized brand. And it would move your bowels. Even better than cornflakes were flakes. Which exactly what it does. Only this time john. Harvey didn't sit on his genius idea. He started calling. Cereal kellogg's sterilized brand and he bought ads in good housekeeping and ladies home journal by nineteen sixteen. He'd sold more than six. Hundred thousand bucks is and will to like too good ball movement needed to talk about it as much and will also liked beating his brother in the cereal business. Oh we'll brand cereal. That was basically a rip off of john. Hervey kellogg's brands. You imagine the king of digestion medical doi ball movements who created basically a palatable lax and then it was stolen so yeah he pulled the cw post basically. John harvey filed a restraining order against his brother's company. One thing led to another and in one thousand nine seventeen. They were back in court again. It came down to the same question. Who is kellogg and one of the great exhibits by the way that will use to show that he was the real kellogg were the every day ad he ever used and the budgets that it costs and the subscription rates of all the periodical advertised the show the millions and millions of people who saw his name associated with his product and the millions and millions of dollars he spent two so the judge was walter north a widely respected man who is known for being fair and in november of nineteen seventeen. He looked down on the brothers from his bench pure dover spectacles and read his verdict. I find that the facts and circumstances established by the proof in this case are such as entitles the defendants to relieve. He dismissed every single. One of john harvey's complaints and he said we'll was entitled to all the money john harvey had made off his cereal in the last ten years it was a total victory for will who said that you know john. You're basically ripping off his ideal. He's advertise to a fairly well. You can sell products under any other name. You don't have to sell your product with a similar signature right next to his but the reality is when people see the name kellogg's today you think of kelloggs cornflakes and so he won. We'll one john. Harvey appealed the case to the michigan supreme court. They ruled unanimously. Eight to zero in wills favor. John also had to pay all of will's legal bills more than two and a half million dollars in today's money by this point has the younger brother surpassed his famous older brother importance. Yeah absolutely and then never stopped. It never stopped because kellogg's became more and more powerful more successful. This victory did not change the fact that will had spent so much of his life filling beaten down his lifelong struggles with his brother with establishing his own business that even after he finally won the damage was done. He couldn't relate well to his children. He had very few friends. What does it say about. His character was extremely lonely. Man almost of the charles foster kane and citizen king where he could not relate to anybody because money and success will became bitter passive aggressive paranoid and hostile. His marriage fell apart. Two of his sons broke off contact with him after he died at the age of ninety one years old one of his grandsons described it as a relief like a heavy weight had been lifted so he got the ultimate revenge but he couldn't enjoy and that to me is one of the great tragedies brothers kellogg is that they could never figure out how important each was to the other and will will i found a very compelling figure. I like writing about him. It was very sad man to be that successful and that's sad and lonely is clearly. The writers love to write about conflict and There was conflict between the brothers to treat internal conflict in well was never comfortable for his part john. Harvey kellogg became more and more eccentric as he grew older he spent time in florida. Were guests at home. Said he would sometimes walk around in his underwear to show up in great shape he was in will was so bothered by this that he wants even considered filing a lawsuit forcing his brother to dress more appropriately and then there was john harvey's abiding interest in his own. Well i'll let dr marquel explain. He had a healthy gut in that and he even liked to offer his a bomb movements would put them in a container and offered him to others. To smell nazi. He was so healthy and eight so well they didn't smell it. I don't know if that's true or not. I mean i know he did. It smells been polite. Not great dr. Keep another reason that might account for john. Harvey slide into obscurity torn the title of most respected kellogg out of his hands. John might have taken himself out of the running like other scientists of his time. John harvey became a vocal proponent of eugenics which made the racist arguments that some people usually white people were born with superior jeans and moral qualities After the court case john harvey and we'll stop talking to each other for awhile when they did meet will insisted on having a third party in the room to witness what was said but more than twenty years after the court handed will his victory. John gave him something will probably want an even more john wrote him an emotional letter a mea culpa from a man who is clearly full regret he knew the end was coming and the thing about john is difficult as he could be he was at heart a good christian man and i think he wanted to make amends at that point of his life and it was basically a letter saying i was wrong. And you're right you're better balanced judgment has doubt mma saved you from fast number of mistakes of the sort i have made in. You have done remarkably well because of your business since all this stuff and allowed you to achieve magnificent successes for which generations to come will. Oh you gratitude but will did not get the letter. Because john harvey secretary never sent it to him. His secretary filed at. She didn't want to be sent. Because it may john harvey look or whatever i earnestly desire to make amends for any wrong or injustice of any sort. I have done to you and we'll be glad if you will give me a very definite and frank expression of anything. I have said or done which you feel should be justly designated on brotherly or otherwise open to criticism in nineteen forty two a little over a year after john. Harvey secretary filed away the letter. The brothers met one last time john. Harvey didn't know why will hadn't responded to his apology and will didn't know that the letter existed. He didn't know the john harvey was sorry. The two met the sanitarium was falling apart. It was deeply in debt. And even though john harvey was no longer in charge he was doing everything he could to rescue the last remnants of his legacy including asking his brother for help so john was trying to get money to keep the sanitarium on an even keel. While will behind the scenes was doing everything he could to get it bankrupt and say bad things about this very moment that john is written a letter to try and reconcile his brother behind the scenes is actually trying to thwart him and undermine him undermine them and bury his legacy. Is the one thing that john had. That would make his boxer. Cornflakes was the sand and they fought like cats and dogs. Several our meeting was was very contentious in any never spoke again and then john harvey died few months later in one thousand nine forty eight. Someone was going through john. Harvey's old filing cabinet when they found the sealed envelope addressed to will and so we didn't get it for seven years later with his brother was long gone to how did will respond when he got that letter. Seven years later. Well that too is sad. It'd be that's another citizen kane. Like moment he was already blind from terrible glaucoma so the letterhead to be read to him. There were tears and silent stoicism but it must we don't know it must have hurt him to the core. I hope that this note may find you more comfortable in that you have many years left to promote the splendid enterprises that have given the name you bear a place. Among the notable ones of our time he kept a picture in his wallet of john harvey's grave it's a tiny little headstone but he kept it in his wallet and he gave copies of that picture to other people. You know as much as they disliked each other. I think they loved each other Were brothers and each made the other better. There would not have been a great battle creek. Sanitarium and all the medical success that john harvey kellogg head if his little brother hadn't been running everything like a swiss watch and they needed each other and complimented each other but they didn't know it one would never become successful without the other there are successes just unmeasurable by most people's lives. Most of us are names are not going to be at all yet. The kellogg family from this tiny town in the middle of the state of michigan. We're still talking about that. Is against all the odds. Howard marquel is professor of the history of medicine at the university of michigan and the author of the kellogg's the battling brothers of battle creek. This episode was produced by sarah. Wyman and julia. Press with me. Charlie hermit. Did you grow up eating cereal. I was a huge fan of fruit loops and one from general mills blueberry. Do you remember that one. Let us know in our facebook group. Would you just search brought to you by podcast. Or as always you can find us on twitter or citizen email at bt y be at insider dot com especial. Thanks this week to ben roseberry. Christopher tim wetzel and steve wyman reenacting that court case declared darris and tyler murphy and thanks again to howard marquel for taking the time to talk with us. He's one of the doctor's help. Coined the term flatten the curve and has been helping to fight the coronavirus pandemic and yet we called him to talk about. Kellogg's sound design is by bill moss. Music is from audio network. John galore in casey holford composed our theme. Our editor is michaela. Bligh dan bobkov is the podfather. Sayre wyman is our executive producer. Brought to you by is a production of insider audio and howard. Thank you very much. Thank you charlie. And i hope you had a good bulb ubin today to not yet. Well may you always be regular. May regularity be with you. This episode was brought to you by mastercard to learn more visit mastercard dot us slash digital doors.