2019 Training Camp Preview: Offense


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The giants will be kicking off next week and with that we are going to dive right into a training can't preview so for what we're going to do over the next two episodes. We're going to take a look at the offense. Take a look at the defense and instead of going really player by player and looking at you know what we can expect from these players. We're going to go over over each group of like what our biggest question is afford that positional group as we head into training camp in through the preseason and then into the regular season these were kind of going to be over arching questions so we're going to have one the big question for each group and that's how we're kinda going go into discuss each position group as we preview what to look for during training camp. So are you ready to get going Chris. Let's get to it. Let's get to it all right so obviously if we're going to start with the offense we have to start at quarterback. You omitting has been the quarterback for a very long time for the first time in a very long time. There is actual competition. Whether competition is this is a loaded word whether there's an open competition there or not but the giants selected Daniel Jones six overall likely the quarterback of the future. That is the plan so I think the question we can get to here in the overarching question of the quarterback quarterback position heading throughout the offseason and into the season is can you. I manning hold off. Daniel Jones and I think that's a weird question. One is Dana Jones just going to be better than Eli Manning the in Training Camp Camp and if that's the case is it going to be a parent that if that is the case if Jones should just start the season or if it's it's kind of neck and neck and the giants just aren't overall good as we look into the preseason season and into this start of the regular season is they're going to be a pressure to put Jones in so I think they'll just the overarching question of can you I manning hold off Daniel Jones for whatever period of time that could possibly be. I think that's the biggest thing that we're going to see in starting with training camp. Yeah yeah I I think if we lead US leave aside the possibility that Jones will just from the jump the better than Eli. I think we'll probably come. I'm down to can eli give the giants a chance to win you can't he play efficiently enough that the giants are in Games winning games or if they're not winning games than keeping them close enough that the team can at least look at it and say we are close we are you know maybe the offensive line clicking a little bit better away from winning or this completely rebuilt secondary. They're just you know one big play away from kind of coming together and being able to close out games. I think Eli can keep them. In that spot he will stay on the field. I don't think we'll have Kurt Warner situation where you know even if the team is winning they'll pull him to give the kid a chance because ally isn't Kurt Warner Warner obviously still had good football left in him but he just did not have the kind of relationship with the team that Eli has built over the last decade and a half right and that's it's been part of what's been going on with Eli Manning for the past couple of years and there's not a lot of ways to sugar coat it and obviously we have not on this podcast you love Manning has not been good for a number of years. There are some numbers and some plays ladies were you can point out where you can say work. He's he's still has something left and sure there. There are women the pieces of that but in the overall grand scheme manning has not really been good since twenty fifteen even in that the two thousand sixteen season when the giants went eleven and five went to the playoffs you. I was not very good in that year either when you look at yards per attempt was just under a league average completion percentage for Jess under league average the the one of the things he's been good at throughout his career is avoiding sacks and that completely plummeted in two thousand eighteen so baby with an offensive line that'll help but the overall thing is and this isn't totally a knock on manning right. He's thirty eight years old now. It's okay to not be playing your best football. At thirty eight years old. He's won two super bowls. Eli Manning was a very successful quarterback that does not mean he's going to continue to be a very successful quarterback and that does not mean he shouldn't be moved on from when the time comes and we can argue when that time is going to be argued that time by the should have been a couple years ago but like you said if you I is still playing may what's look at maybe what what he played at the start of the season last year it maybe a couple of those close games turns into giants wins but if they're around five hundred maybe like a game or two below. Is it worth keeping Eli Manning in. I think that's another part of this question and I think we're going to start seeing this in training camp and there's going to be such a microscope on this. You're going to be sick of probably the beat writers giving play by play of every throw and try to not not take too much at tried to not look too much into that because throw by throw books at training camp are not going to be the greatest indication of who is doing what but the overall play how how they're progressing. I think we'll be working training camp. There's going to be a big question of of how much this dynamic is going to start shifting yeah. Definitely you know what you said about the throw throw a year ago ago going by the throw by throw from O._T._A.'s on it sounded like Davis Webb was the giant best quarterback and he got cut so I suppose at this point we could still argue whether or not keeping Kyle Ah let over him or not keeping both of them was the correct move or not but that's also completely at academic and has absolutely nothing to do with where we are but just to your point that the comp- The real granular details are that's just noise yeah in this is going to be a question that continues to go into the regular season who knows maybe maybe pest that if you eat y. I plays the entire season. I don't know if that is unrealistic that it happens but I think we will start to see how that will shape up once we start getting into training camp especially wants to preseason starts so that is I think the big question for quarterback that <hes> we can look at as as we start to see the team starts take the field so let's move on to the position right in front of them and possibly the position that is going to matter more. We're for how these quarterbacks play. At least that's who what we've been told that the offensive line needs to improve and part of why quarterback play was not great was because offensive line play was not great and we've seen a lot of moves made on the offensive line. I and I think the question here that we're going to look at is it's the offensive line actually better well. I think that's kind of a two part question do offensive line just based on the amount out of resources they have poured into it over the last eighteen months or so should be better. It should be one of the top units in the N._F._l.. Just based on they made their left tackle. The highest has paid offensive lineman in the N._F._l.. They drafted a guard second overall. They passed onto proven starting centers western Rich Burke and Brett Jones for John Colapinto. They signed patch trauma to a big deal. They traded their only proven pass rusher for Kevin Zeitler and then they just invested in free agent. Mike remers again so just with all of that this offensive line should be improved now whether or not it is I think the interior will be improved just because of will hernandez having another year and just getting better and the natural progression of a good young player and then adding Kevin Zeitler who is one of the best guards in the N._F._l.. The other three spots I had I do have questions I do wonder whether or not Jalaun John Peo- has the quickness miss to be a consistently effective center and I wonder if this is the year that need solar begins to backslide because he's thirty one he's coming up on thirty two. He's had some lower body injuries and like Brandon Thorne told us he's only ever really been in that third tier of offense tackles where he's good enough against okay competition but he can be exposed by higher levels of competition. His biggest contributions might be in the locker room and then Mike remers yet he's been dealing with a back injury and you just don't know what to expect from an offensive Lineman who has had that kind of injury. There's there's a bunch of individual questions going off. The line that go into that. One big question of is the offensive line improves. The thing is when we're going to look at this line and I think we basically know who this starters are going to be. I don't think there's going to be a lot of competition there. We know we know the left. Side of the line is locked down. That's going to be NATO older and it's going to be we'll. Hernandez at center looks like it's going to be John. They're pretty high on the lobby. Oh but spencer was refined probably a little below average when he was put in but it's probably sloppy job. We know right guard obviously is going to be Kevin Zeitler and the right tackle should be Mike remers that appears to be what the case is but there's always the possibility of Chad Wheeler. I think if it's Chad weird that's probably an issue if Mike Remembers can't beat him out because we have seen what Chad Wheeler looks like and I think that's part of what goes into this question is. Is there going to be a weak link on this giants line because I think there's also something we discuss brand. A little bit is when you're kind of building out a line you kind of want. I want everyone to be at least adequate. It's better to be adequate across the line then have a store at one place and a really bad player at another and we kind of saw that though little bit the giants didn't have that star last last year but they had a very clear weak link and that really derail the offensive line more often than not they were mistakes all over but we saw one big weak link we saw it in the beginning with Eric Flowers. It didn't get much better with Chad Wheeler and that's part of the reason and would look at e._S._p._N.'s pass block windbreak. The giants were twenty-seventh in part of that was when you have one weak link that is allowing pressure early that derails everything else so is the weak link Gone John and Ken. They just even be adequate. That's probably going to be a big step up and can potentially improve the offensive line by just being okay. They don't have to be great. They potentially got great with Zeitler. They don't need soldier or to be great. Hernandez is definitely improving. I think what they need to do is make sure center is okay and make sure right. Tackle is okay and if those two positions are going to be then they might be set up to do pretty well but if one of those is real iffy and it still looks like that's a weak link then that's going to be a problem regardless of what the other four positions do yeah. They really do need to avoid having that one weak link who can just just let pressure leak through let defenders into the backfield to disrupt the running plays to force quarterbacks to hurry force them off their spot. Throw off the timing. Just nothing good happens don't and like you said it is just it is just plain better to be average across the board than to have one or two guys who are great and then one or hopefully hopefully not too who are terrible and that was the case last year. The giants obviously improved at some positions but we'll have to see if they just improved to always passable at the positions they were really bad at last year and that's going to be the key to the offensive defined moving forward and we're going to see that a lot in in training camp and a lot of that is going to be health also a nate soldier coming off of surgery he still recovering he did not participate in mini camp. Mike remers as as you mentioned coming off a back injury. He did not participate in mini camp so we'll see how much they are able to participate in training camp so I mean still even as training camp opens. It's going to be the end of July and August two long. Wait till September when the season opens a but that is also going to be something to monitor and that's going to play a part into whether the offensive line is better because also as much as moves have been made to make the starting offensive bovine better. There's not a lot of death behind it so if there's one loss of any of these players that entire offensive line shifts and that week wink is very apparent with whoever has to fill in because there's not a lot of death F- behind that starting offensive line and if you're expecting all five guys to start sixteen games that's probably not going to happen so that's going to play a key partners to yet the the giants could go from being okay to having that a weak link and they just you know light. Some candles say some prayers. Maybe get a precedent exorcism of their facility. Just do whatever they can. To make sure that if they have an injury it is not will hernandez or Kevin Zeitler because if one of their great players goes down then things get scary fast yeah and those are the two guys who are coming into the season healthy. Both tackles will new at least start in the offseason coming off surgery so that is where the concern is so health is going to be just as big of an issue as the actual play on the field. 'cause there's just there's not a a lot behind them and that should be a big concern for as much as the offensive line looks improved on paper. The starting five is definitely much better than it was at this time last year but behind them and there's there's not a lot so if any of those guys go down. It's that's it might look like last year anyway which is going to be something to monitor so let's move on to the next position where really the biggest change was numerous Odell Beckham at wide receiver fever but incomes golden tate so a lot of what is behind golden tatum sterling shepherd a lot of the same a group that was there less years denny towers the Korey Coleman's the courier ladders the Russell Shepherds there are a couple new players fifth round pick Daria Slayton Alex Wesley who was a undrafted free agent Reggie Juniors undrafted free agent but we'll see there's still not a lot behind those two good starting they wide receivers but still questions after that a we know what sterling shepherd and Golden Takin do both of them are very good in the short intermediate level of the field what is going to be my question is is there anyone on this Rosser Rosser who is going to be able to consistently win down the field and I think that's how that's how the passing game is going to be able to move right. Now we see this offense is probably going to be built a lot around yards after the catch and is going to be short throws and putting a lot on the tate the shepherds and Ingram will be get there to run after the catch and I did a post early in in the off season I think after Golden Tate was signed of cannon offense just work on strictly strictly yards after the catch and it doesn't automatically make you a bad offense if you're going to be rely on yards after the catch but it also lowers the ceiling quite a bit and it also brings me to a piece of the forward I wrote wrote for Warren sharps football preview book in Two Thousand Nineteen where I was just looking at things offenses can do to kind of move forward and one of the really interesting things I've found is because of how many passes are thrown within ten yards of the line of scrimmage so less than seventy point six percent of N._F._l.. Passes were thrown within ten yards of the line of scrimmage but newly two hundred percent of the whigs passing by expected points added happened binned eleven yards or further downfield so n._F._l.. Teams totaled negative eight hundred ninety seven point seven expected points added on throws within ten yards of the line of scrimmage. Only nine teams had positive e._P._A.. E._P._A.. On passes that went within ten yards of the line of scrimmage so that means what of the passing value of your expected value happens on these deep throws at happen further in the deep intermediate and in deep passes if you're living in the five to ten yard range and this is where the ball travels so not like a ten yard pass pass that travels ten yards in the air when you're winning in that area it's real hit or miss <hes> and if you can't execute on some downfield passes and the wide receivers are getting their or the quarterback can't get there then you're severely limiting the upside you have as an offense and I think that is my biggest question now that I've ranted for a very long time that comes back acting my biggest question of this wide receiver group is if anyone is going to consistently be able to win or even asked to win downfield yeah and just about your point about going the value of going down field field and how difficult it is to consistently field a decent offense in the short range giants fan software ears how inconsistent and unreliable the Odell Beckham on a slant and a prayer offense was was because then you're either asking an offense to sustain drives over a long period of time and try to just be a defense with that you know death by a thousand in cuts or you're asking your receivers to beat a lot of guys to turn a short passed into a long game and that's just not the way you win. Consistently my question with with wide receiver core is that from a little bit different angle. I just want to know what the depth chart is. GonNa look like behind Sterling Shepherd even leaving Golden Tate aside because like you said I I'm looking to see who can win down the field but I'm also looking to see if last year was a fluke for golden tate his raw numbers. You know his box score. The numbers were okay. Maybe off his normal marked by a little bit but not bad but football outsiders had him ranked as the second worst receiver in the entire N._F._l.. And had him for for well over one hundred yards below of replacement level player and I believe his devi away was for the season was terrible as well and it started out bad before with the lions I believe he had something like negative twenty two devi away before he was traded and then it got worse from there if I want to know from him was that just a bad year was that a fluke were just things not going right or was that like Brandon Marshall's twenty sixteen where he had been great up until then and then all of a sudden he just fell off a cliff and was basically done as a receiver for the giants Sake and for Tate's as well. I I sincerely hope that this was that was just a fluke. He'll be able to rebound and be productive number two or number three receiver but you do have to recognize his age. You have to recognize the fact that he's been in the N._F._l.. For ten years is he set to fall off a cliff just as a player and also what will the rest of the depth chart looked like behind him will take wind up being the giants third wide receiver and will they have say cody latimer or Corey Coleman as the number two the other guy who will be spent most of the time outside across from sterling shepherd will the giants. Even how often will they even feel the old three receivers. Will they play the twelve personnel package on even more of their downs than they did last year. That's what I'm looking forward to seeing camp yeah and a lot of what we can take away like we said earlier earlier or when you should be looking at things like throw by throw in the play by play I think what is going to be telling is is who is being used where whether that's you know with the first team in what packages and where they are lining up on the field. I think that's going to be very interesting. I think a lot of the talk about guys like Sheppard and tate is where they win the most and where their best is from the slot. Not both of the can be in the slot at the same time but we have mentioned of before that that's a widow overblown. Both of them are able to play from the outside. I probably expect shepherds who play on the outside a little more but also what we can look at entrenched camp is where these guys are getting. Getting lined up is shepherd going to be on the outside. Are we going to find ways to get them. Both in the slot is they're going to be a third wide receiver. Say That Corey Coleman who is on the outside and bore is they're just going to be bored. Three wide receiver sets these are all things things we can take away from a training camp as long as they do translate to the regular season because also like we've mentioned before there was a lot of things that happened in last year's training camp that did not translate once the regular season started lot of a lot of movement a lot of new advanced things from the tight ends a lot of places winding-up saquon Barkley in different places not a lot of that went to the regular season after a we were really excited about it in training camp so we will see but that's typically something that can be taken away during training camp is where these guys are lining up when they're lining up there and that's probably going to be a big part of how this wide receiver group shakes out yeah definitely just there are a lot of questions and it's going to be interesting to find out yeah. It's it's certainly going to be some Dec- it's going at that's probably the biggest adjustment on this Rosser. Obviously a things are a lot better a lot easier when you have someone like Odell Beckham on the field he's going to wipe out wide where he can be in the slot. You can move him around all the time. Defenses are going to have to focus on him and that makes makes it easier for everyone else on the field without him even with guys like Sterling Shepard Golden Tape you who are good receivers we have never said they're not but as a group obviously it is now weaker without Odell Beckham. That's the objective retrial the so I don't think you can argue that but even with two good wide receivers it's completely different way of game planning and scheming players open because Odell Beckham is just a rare type of wide receiver. Remember what we talked to you Matt Harmon a while ago it was shortly after the trade where he said a when he charts wide receivers there are few that actually command double coverage or bracketing by defenses than Odell Beckham is one of them so without that now there's just a different way a two scheme everyone and and how the routes are going to work in combinations together so that is going to be the biggest adjustment and how the giants go about that is going to be a huge piece of what will start to see in training camp. Hello Listener. I'm Shawn Ramos firm host of today explained Vox Daily News podcast every day Monday through Friday my team and I look at what's happening in the world we pick one essential news story that defines our moment and ask smart people to help us understand ended in about twenty minutes or less. It's the perfect way to start or end. Your Day subscribed today explained for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast APP. 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That's also responsible for the chairs and Courtney Kardashians dining room and biosphere to an early nineties experiment that sought to create a completely enclosed closed self sustaining ecosystem and yeah some of them worked out better than others but they're all fascinating listen and subscribe to Nice try today on Apple podcasts on your favorite podcast APP from curbed and the Vox media podcast network so let's go to another set of of what should hopefully be pass catchers because after what we talked about in the last episode of what we like to see and possibly the fading out of the blocking tight end role. Let's go to a tight end and I think the biggest question is going to be what is Evan Ingraham's usage. This has been a consistent topic on the podcast. It was is through the regular season. It's been that way through the season as we looked back on the offense. It's been that way as we look forward to. The offense a so how is Evan Ingram going to be used. Is he going to be the defacto third wide receiver. Is he going to be that guy on the outside possibly on some snaps is he going to still play board traditional tight end where he did play well last year. Is he going to be trusted to block which is something we saw in two thousand eighteen a he wasn't acid you as much much but when he was he was much better at it than he was during his rookie season I is he going to get to run down field a little boy his first two seasons in the N._F._l.. A one of the lowest average death of target he gets thrown to very close to the line of scrimmage and he's he's one of those guys that gets asked to run after the catch. He's very good at it but if you maybe throw to him seven yards down the field and even just that and you get the yards after the catch that's better than if you're throwing to him three yards past the line of scrimmage asking for those yards after the catch so how is Evan Ingram going to be used. I think is the over arching thing for the tight ends because everyone else just kind of falls into a backup role that Ellison's not going to be as important Scott Simon since not going to be as important I even C._J.. Conrad he could be someone who stands out in training camp he did in the beginning of the rookie minicamp although his hype I think faded a little bit as as practices continued. I think he did get injured which kind of derail that a little bit but I think Evan Ingram's usage is obviously going to be the biggest part of of what this tight end group produces definitely absolutely and I would not not be at all upset if their answer the question which receiver will they used to wind down field. If that answer is Evan Ingram he absolutely should be a downfield threat for the giants. That's what he was was drafted for. If we look back to the two thousand sixteen season the giants had no answers for zone coverages and Ingram was drafted with the idea that he can attack attack the seems he can tare pages out of defensive playbook he can make it so a defence can't even consider playing like two man or cover three against the giants but he just has not been used that way like you said the tendencies with him have been that he's spent most of his time running parallel to the line of scrimmage three. Maybe five yards down the field and my fear is that that continues my hope is that it doesn't and with the rest of them and personally I think we can lump the h back fullback positions in with these guys as well. I would say that it would be better if they would all be used in a little bit more of a passing capacity just because the giants have so much production that they need to make up now that Beckham is gone and they're going to have to spread the ball around. Ellison is is not a dangerous tight end but he is at least a reliable tight end so have infil that kind of safety blanket safety valve role Scott Simon since basically the same guy the. Battle between the larger Penny and Rod Smith could be interesting. We did see the giants US penny in a receiving capacity last year. He wasn't bad but he also wasn't terribly impressive. Smith does have some upside there. He also has experience as a ballcarrier as running back said that could be interesting as well but just that opposition group as a whole will depend on how the giant US Ingram in whether or they changed their tendencies from last year yeah and I think a lot of it is how how comfortable they're going to be the passing the ball. I just wrote something this past week about twelve personnel and we've talked about this so many times and what are the things I found is. You don't need to great receiving options. You also barely even need one great receiving option at tight end for passing from twelve personnel to be advantageous because this is one thing about twenty five percent of all plays in the N._F._l.. Had A base defense on the field and we've talked about this also because of passing because of the rise of eleven personnel and three wide receivers teams are playing nickel well as their most often defense and that's with an extra defensive back so only twenty five percent of plays last year had base personnel on the field throughout the week but from twelve personnel over half of the pass attempts do we was fifty five point six percent over half of the pass attempts from when teams use twelve personnel had based defense on the field and that's putting an actual linebacker on the field instead of an extra defensive back and if you have someone like Evan Ingram and even if you have someone like rent ellison those guys who can beat some of these third linebackers because right now the way the League is that Fifth Defensive Dak doc is a better football player than most teams third linebacker. We definitely see that with the giants even with as scarce as the secondary was last year you have someone like grant. Haley was the nickel back last year the better than whatever third linebacker the giants were putting joining us. You would still rather have Haley on the field but when you have twelve personnel you're most likely getting based defense just because that is so historically been a run personnel package that teams use base they prepare for the run and that's where you get an advantage to throw we see that Oh good aboard we see the giants embrace these tight ends and maybe at something where if someone like C._J.. Conrad does breakthrough and the giants have like Conrad and Ingram on the field at the same time that back that could be something to give you an advantage for throwing twelve personnel and that's one place of we could see the giants get an advantage and maybe we'll see that in training camp if again if the giants are running some some heavy twelve personnel packages with two tight ends on the field instead of running a lot of eleven and the giants were mistaken to wes in the rate of plays with eleven personnel last year but they would still fifty six percent of the time so they were still a majority in a web personnel even when they didn't really have three three wide receivers so we'll see if these tight ends can either breakthrough or the giants except that's probably their best path forward of moving the ball on offense and if you were passing more through twelfth personality defense is potentially we're going to start shifting their mindset. Maybe put that extra defensive back back on the field and then that's when running from twelve becomes advantageous because then you have to big tight ends and you have an extra defensive back instead of a linebacker that helps in the run because now you're making the defense smaller so it's kind of this spread to run philosophy without actually having to spread and that's just the kind of mind game in chestnut you play with defenses and I think that's something that giant should look for and that tight end group is going we to be such a big part of it so let's just move onto the last piece of the offense where I'm not sure if there's a lot of questions we know saquon Barkley is going to be the running back is going to beat the running back for a good majority of the snaps APPS and I think my question here is how much is too much of both Barclay being on the field and the offense just running through the run game which from all indications is what they you want to do this year yeah yeah other actually thinking about this this morning while I was cooking breakfast and I was thinking about the kind of impressive disparity in Saquon Barclays production from when he faced six light six-man boxes against eight man boxes heavy boxes and I was thinking what the giants should do because Barkley averaged six point seven yards against white it boxes six-man boxes and then three point nine yards against eight or more man boxes so that is almost double the production just by taking two guys out of the tackle box <unk> just for me what would make sense to me is even if you only run him fifteen times a game. You should do whatever you can to only run him against neutral will or light box counts however I think we everybody listening to this knows that the giants are going to run the ball. They're going to want to run the ball regardless of how many defenders are in the tackle box and just count on the fact that they have improved their offensive line enough that the defensive front doesn't matter which it's not going to work out that way but I think I think the giants I should pay close attention to that box count just based on the on how much more production they got out of Farley against light fronts and also just to minimize the wear and tear on him because if he's going to be the engine that powers your offense you don't want to run him into the ground like say the Dallas cowboys did with DeMarco Murray right and that's I think that's going to be one of the Big League questions <hes> football outsiders one of the first things they did when they first started many years ago was <hes> they had their rule of three seventy and that was any running back with three hundred seventy carries or more her <hes> in a regular season usually broke down the next season. We're at an era where even the Muslim Brian Heavy teams aren't getting close to giving running backs that type of workload so we're probably not going to see Buckley get close close to that and that is just rushing attempts receptions. Impasse targets do not take as big a toll on the body as rushing attempts to that's also something football outsiders found so if you're going to use Barclay a lot to make sure that is you're right. You're not running him into the stack box one because we know now that running production significantly drops the more defenders who were in the box offer every defender added. You're running game gets worse. It doesn't matter how many blockers you have. That's something we have found out through a few analytical studies and to if you're running into the box that's just wore defenders to fall on Barclay and obviously is not the first offender doesn't always make the tackle but when you're deliberately running up the middle into all of those bodies then that's when the the chance of injury that goes up and now if you're getting him into space through the passing game you're. You're limiting that opportunity of just the amount of defenders who can who can grab him giving him a better opportunity to to break tackles obviously want to see him get passes in space beyond the line of scrimmage like he did last here but that's that's a different story so I think what of this is going to be held. Much of the offense is going to be too much to run through Barclay a part of just running the ball right up. The middle is echoing to be too much on him. Is there going going to be inefficient of playcalling because now the giants think they have to run the ball so a lot of I down runs. We don't WanNa see that in the first hour runs are bad for offense. They usually set yourself back aren't going to see a a lot of second long runs that also sets your offense back. I think some other some other studies right now have shown by expected points added and expected success rate the we hear a lot of setting up a manageable through down but by hi <hes> success rate and expected points a third and one is really the only third down that that shows your first two downs were not in some way a setback a so third and one is really the only manageable down the best way to to have a manageable down is to not face their downs but a lot of the giants decision making when they really relied on Barclay was kind of set up to do those early down runs to set up third and manageable and that's where the offense gets in trouble so how much is too much Barclay one for his health and two for keeping the offense moving forward you can get the ball throw him the ball more but do not continue to try to pound him up the middle. That's that's not going to be for anyone's benefit. Yeah I would just add. I'm not exactly sure that the way the giants threw him. The ball last year was all that much different from running him into a stack box because he was just throwing the wall behind the line of scrimmage so often that it might have it might as well just have been an outside run. I don't know what we have to do to get the giants to throw some wheel routes. Throw some angle routes. Let's move him into the slot but that's what they need to do at least with regards to Saquon Barkley in the passing game right and but even even those passes were better because they take less of a toll on the body they did get him into you space more technically but yeah you want to see those type of receptions improve and the giants can still use Barclay. He is a great receiver use him more effectively in the passing game and that is what you help so if we taking this back to training camp now. Hopefully we see like we did last training camp of Parkway getting moved into the slide. I getting thrown the ball past the line of scrimmage maybe lining up outside a little more and hoping that translates into the regular the season now if we don't see that at all during training camp that is going to be a huge red flag at least we saw it in training camp last year even though it didn't happen in the regular season as often as we would have liked if we if we do see that in in training camp there's at least that hope that they've thought about this and that is something they are hoping to to bring forward and I think that's that's going to be a big piece of of what Barclay is how he can contribute positively and how that running doc group is going to to shake up yeah at behind Barkley. I think there will be kind of an interesting battle between wing Allman and Paul Perkins at I think Paul Perkins has kind of been forgotten but he those two guys do have an interesting contrast in skill sets and just how many running back to the giants keep and how many see the the field during the course of a game is going to be interesting to see I mean obviously they'll all see the field during preseason so we won't be able to get a feel for exactly how much of a load they take off of Barclay and maybe we shift to the backups but we might get to see some to back sets or maybe some jockeying for position up and down the depth chart yeah that too in the both <hes> Goldman and Perkins have been successful runners to to appoint both of them have the ability to catch the ball so I think obviously neither one or as individually skilled as Barkley but you can still do some of the same mm stuff with them that you could borrow you can still find them up in the slot and so forth so so you're not you don't have to completely change the game plan at all if you're putting those guys in so we'll we'll see how how L. Dan battle comes out and like you said how many or running backs they're going to keep on the Rosser whether they keep going and Perkins Rod Smith is there. We talked about Elijah Penny. They probably don't need a fullback especially if they have someone like Smith you can be a running back who can be a type of H.. Back in a little more versatile than someone like penny is needed that would be my preference missile. We'll we'll see how that goes. Are they going to keep four running back. That's a whole lot to keep so I think that is definitely going to be one of the questions and some of the depth behind Saquon Barkley. If all goes to plan the giants aren't really going to be that death because <hes> Barclay's going to be on the field a lot so we will we will see how that plays out and and and what the giants are looking for as as they look at at running back there yes so that's what we're going to see at running back and that the depth there is obviously going to be concerned if Barklay goes down and that's a huge concern either way especially because probably of how the giants are going to how the giants think they're going to need to run the offense through Barclay even though probably with Goldman or perkins is an improved offensive line it might not be as much of a drop off as as you would expect us so that is going to be a big question there that will see play out so that is all the positions we will be back to preview the defense serve as the bookies report on Monday veterans come in on Wednesday so we will have the full preview up by then so you can find this podcast wherever you get your podcast pres rate and review if you have not that helps us out greatly helps his show be found as as we start kicking up the football content. It's coming we got through. We got through the summer with not a lot to talk about now. We're finally getting there. Are you can follow a work on big review dot com you can follow big with you on twitter at big review if I'll be with you on instagram at big underscore we underscore view you follow me on twitter at Damp Zuta. You can follow Chris on Twitter Raptor M. K.. I thank you ask for listening and we will talk to you again. Are you troubled by strange hockey traits of the middle of the night do you experience feelings dread about N._H._l.. Free Agency have you or your family ever seen it New York islanders game. If the answer is yes then don't wait another minute pick up your mobile device and subscribe to Lighthouse Hockey podcasts from espy nation. Today are courteous and efficient hosts are ready to serve all of your islander needs and worries lighthouse hockey podcasts for New York islanders fans. Hey it's medically host of the up sell before you jump to your next podcast. 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