Peter Gabriel: Genesis of a Rock Star
A lot of people want to be a rockstar. Why does it feel to be a rockstar and have you look out, and there's thousands of people, and they know every lyric and they're moving to your music filling whereas a bit like the seven year old jumping on the table and family get together and showing off, but it's the biggest sale, but actually I'm a real mixture between us of show of extrovert and a very shy person. But when you feel the engagement, and you feel the warmth of the people is like nothing else. It's an amazing experience great privilege. Feeling is mutual. Peter Gabriel speaking on behalf of rock fans. If I may I saw Peter Gabriel and concert in nineteen eighty eight. And it was an amazing experience and the great privilege. Gabriel was at the peak of his fame, man. He'd recently had huge hits off his album. So including this one the video for sledgehammer, by the way, still holds the record for the number of MTV video awards nine. Good. Of course. Peter Gabriel had been one of the biggest stars of the nineteen seventies to as front man for the rock band. Genesis but much of his career has also been dedicated to the cause of human rights and to bringing hundreds of musicians from around the world to international attention though festival the studio and a record label he created. So we've got music politics and much more from Peter Gabriel on this episode of what it takes a podcast about passion vision, and perseverance from the academy of chief -ment. I'm Alice Winkler. This child is gifted and I heard that enough that I started to believe if you have the opportunity not a perfect opportunity, and you don't take it. You may never have another show. It always so clear. It was just like the picture started to form itself. There was new. We ally could prevail over the truth dot NIST over light there over life. Every day. I wake up and decide today, I'm going to love my life decide. If they're gonna break your leg. Once when you go in that play stay out of there, and then along companies differential experiences that you don't look for you don't plan for the boy, you better not miss him. Peter Gabriel is sixty nine now when he took the stage at the academy of chief -ment summit in London in two thousand seventeen he didn't look anything like his former rocker self no bat wing costume or fluorescent makeup from his Genesis days. No, white flappy jacket or gelled hair from the eighties. In fact, not much hair at all just a fringe of white ago tea and glasses, but still those piercing blue eyes and still that sandy warm voice, which captivated all the scholars and honorees gathered when he was asked to give an impromptu speech, I started off. Spectacular candidate for the academy of non-achievement. My parents who quite worried I was fitting most of my exams at school and. But I had found something that I truly loved when we were taken away on holiday, and it was a band playing used to watch the drama and whenever. My parents who want to go to bed. I would just sit there hypnotize thinking I wanna hit things and make a loud noise, and I was sent to very formal traditional English school and music was a place. We had a basement where we with a record player, and I could turn it up loud on I could feel things and I could dance around and feel like a free man, and it was a wonderful release. And then I got interested in actually trying to put songs together. And it was. A songwriter was really the goal for me. Then with the bands that I could occupy myself with as as a drum not a very good Trump really enthusiastic, but just know very talented, but managed to get my find my way into jazz band and into a rock band blues band. So anyone that would have me? I'd be delighted and we started dreaming of some writing. I'm going to devote here because I'm improvising to a story that I liked about another songwriter who was determined to get Elvis Presley to sing one of his songs. So he's so that he was he tried Colin music where controlling music publisher, and they controlled everything Elvis ever recorded amiss guy was absolutely obsessed with a single idea of getting a song of his recorded by Elvis, so he heard he was going to play in Las Vegas again and come out of retirement. So he sat in the toilet where he thought Elvis would go and as a human being he needed to do his normal things, and waited and waited and waited and in the end. The great man came to do business in the cabin next to him, and he summoned up enormous courage and asked if he could give them a song and Elvis said, well, if it's any good, I'll know just sing it to me. And so from one cabin to another. In the ghetto was sung, and it was the only sort of social countries. So that Elvis ever recorded. But I think part of the reason we here is to say how we got away with doing what we do and encourage you really to take those crazy chances, and I know plenty of voices that are going to tell you your crap you can't do this. It's it's not gonna work. Don't be one of those voices. You've got to be the voice that says. Okay. Maybe I maybe might would. Maybe I just can't do that. One of the first obstacles Peter Gabriel had to overcome on his way to start him was the disapproval of that fancy boarding school where he and his classmates formed Genesis. So guys. The sheet. Though benny. He talked about the band's somewhat subversive beginnings during his interview with Mary Jordan for the academy of chievements in two thousand eighteen there was a lot of discussion about whether we should continue with music in those other school. Now would be very proud of Genesis history. They want very supportive they sort of total rated a rogue group. And remember, my grandmother was told not to carry on playing and mixing with this reputable types. And so this was something that for us was really important because it was not quite Tom Brown's schooldays, but it was a formal English cool with discipline. Not a lot of compassion and the tighter the discipline the moon human nature wants to. Rebel against it. So music was alway in those film, Lindsay Anderson cold if which sort of catch it, I think the emotion of the experience stand up dresses you. Dresses you. Something indecent about you. Try to the way you slide about you think we'd unnoticed with your hands in your pockets the way you just sit looking at everyone you have become a danger to the morale of the whole house. You can take that cheap. It'll grin feel knife. The movie if is an icon of British counterculture, and it actually came out the very year. Genesis put out there. I Alba nineteen sixty eight they produced it during their summer break from school and called the album from Genesis to revelation. But the joke was lost on record stores that placed it in the religious music Benz. It would take a few more years for Genesis to break. Did you yourself as a songwriter or a singer? I so myself as the drama I and some writer. Yeah, we were planning to be summarizes. We didn't really want to be a group. The harsh reality of dreams of writing hits. Is that no one is interested in recruiting? So. We had to stop playing themselves. And then that evolved we in at wanted to explore different types of music. You know, it was the beginning of the sixties and. Merging different styles seem to us to be exciting thing and revolution Rian. So that's what we were trying to do. They were called folk blues mystical or progressive rock, sometimes art house rock did anyone influence you in songwriting music. So many people, you know, I think you instinctively absorbed from whatever you're hearing. You know, which is why my ten year is DeJean away to school. So if my next record sounds like Justin Bieber, you know, what? But it was arm be blues. So and the beat boom, you know, the Beatles were I was thirteen in ninety sixty three when I had love me do on the radio in the back of my parents call and I it's people don't think of the Beatles as sort of rough and revolutionary, but at that time, it was also of shelling by seeing sweet sounding songs and this rough tough ban sound in love me. Do was very very different love love meeting. Yeah. So please, please me was what the fest record our boat with my pocket money. But Otis Redding was the king for me. And I was lucky enough at seventeen to. To go down to the ram jam club in Brixton here on to a maybe three white faces that was the best gig of my life still to this day. Well, it was like the sun coming out just this womb. And then this amazing voice band generosity. You know? I mean Springsteen gives a ton when he performs, but but Otis Pinson. In my opinion. So it was just. Something else. I mean, I guess I was right. You know, I think what hits us hard. When was seventeen stays with us for life. And that was that was it from the. Let's go back to costumes which were fantastic. Those those costumes you came out were stunning. What was the idea behind that psyche to but the idea was to get rich and famous? We were in a group that was sort of disappearing into oblivion. I mean that was one side of it. But there was another side, which was an evil Lucien. We love the sound of twelve string guitars of its was old days. So meant the one electron acuteness. You know, three guys with thirty six strings, they come on and would sit there twiddling Nobes and. I mean until they the tunnels in in chin and the so the long pauses between each song, and if you're in a small club and is not ins and bunch musicians. Just got something going and then sitting down all the energies been dissipated. They look to the mug behind the microphone to do something. So I started telling stories, and so partly the characters coming out and these stories and emerging an and we had on one of them a character with pointed created with folks head and readdress. So and I sat around with with pulled Conroy was working our record company time, he was saying why don't we get someone to ground the gig in the folks hidden readdress, also a mess with give go so. When my wife's wardrobe pulled out readdress, which at that point on could I was thin enough to get into it. And we got the sort of folks had made up. Remember the first gigs? Word was in this full Mable ring in Dublin, which was not exactly the most sort of enlightened transgender varmint. And. There was a shock literally. You could hear a pin drop when I will out his costume. And I thought oh, that's interesting. And the band, of course, didn't really know that I was going to do this. I've mentioned something with folks. But didn't discuss it. Because a new the who know be majority vote going my way. And the same, you know, when I came out with a whole lot more costumes rainbow. But. Well under following day. We got on the front page of melody maker. And suddenly, you know from fifty pounds of week the head we were on one hundred fifty so, you know, life was looking so they will practical advantages to to the costumes, but it was actually a lot of fun. And sometimes you know, when you come out, and this we're keyboard sound dry is in them. I'm wearing the sort of you the makeup and bat wings. It was a little like a Sifi moment and a new people to some other place and think the musicians in the band were both the pulled and delighted. Other people start copying them because they're quite a lot of people that started doing about Landis kind of wild things. Neil Bogart said he persuaded this group cool kissed Todd wearing stuff, but the stories very different from that. So. I dunno. But you know. On belly was always in would dress. So he was their head of us. We did one concert with him in the roundhouse here, and it was with the living theatre, and it was one of these hippie festival things the probably forty people on stage probably twenty two in the audience. With was miserable events. But. But it was interesting that was my first encounter with with Bowie. Genesis was so successful so young. But then you're only twenty five years old and you walked away. Why? You know, we were I'm quite fond of all to the state, but it's fan politics is as just classic. And you know, go to the point where to get something done you'd have to persuade. Tony not we will often best friends worst enemies, I would symptoms twin swayed in that what I wanted was his idea, and and he was very protective keyboard, even when anyone else getting near his keyboard. Whereas I wanted to express myself played with that. But then I think it was decisive thing when my first daughter Anna was born, and they didn't think she would survive, and there was a whole number of things. So she might wife Jill wasn't allowed to see her than she was in an incubator. It was the most traumatic experience in my life at that point. And the band were very unappreciative Phil had had a child then. But on the whole we were trying to get a lamb lies down on Broadway recorded at that time that was in fall, west Wales and drive was pretty hellish getting there, I'm back and. There was no question in my mind that family comes first. So I think things sound that point in certain ways, you could say Peter Gabriel was a reluctant rockstar, or at least been ambivalent one. Who was never willing to buy into all the trappings? He was never a heavy drinker drug user, for example, and for sure becoming a husband and a father so early in his career and living through that trauma. He just described crystallized what was important for him and truth were mixture of are higher and Loa niches. So there's definitely pardon me that wanted attention and goals, and the other part of me, you know, just love music and wanted to follow my heart. So. I think the truth is is always somewhere. You know, composite and. I always thought of myself as a weekend rockstar. A fun place to get your ego stroked, but took sick if it's your Ponant abode right around the time. He was thinking about leaving Genesis Peter Gabriel got a call from the film director, William freakin who just made the exorcist and the French connection freakin had read a surreal little story. Gabriel had written for the back of an album cover, and he wanted to collaborate on movie ideas with the young rocker Gabriel had always harbored a desire to be a filmmaker. So he jumped at the chance nothing really came to fruition from it. But Gabriel would some years later right songs for many films and soundtracks for birdie rabbit proof fence and the last temptation of Christ. When you listen to a soundtrack work, you realize that you can clearly hear some essential Peter Gabriel nece, even without its voice the atmosphere. The rhythms the influence and input of world music, the simultaneous feeling of timelessness and Moderna, although fans usually think first and foremost of his voice and lyrics. Peter Gabriel said in this interview with Jordan that is a songwriter would always felt best to him was melody harmony and rhythm, and sometimes it was will come easily. But for me, that's a slow. More difficult to get past the Samsa mine tunnel sensor and having owned a studio now watched many bands, come in euro from seeing a group of players sitting around what I would consider the poor unfortunate vocalist who's struggling to squeeze a few woods out. So trying to get something that you feel says main summing to you will mean something to other people is is work. You know, I think talent is hugely overrated. I think most of its how book so update success equation. How what percent is hard work. And what percent is talent? The way I look at talent is an any Beyonce is just languages. In other words, if I was dropped in any country in the world. And in order to survive had to learn some of the language. I would find a way to do it. Some people will be quick I'm better mode that than others, but everyone could do it. And I feel the same with writing music with painting. Whatever creative format is if you really believed some that you'd swallow the pill the would destroy you in twelve months time, if you hadn't proved talent in a certain area. You would be amazed. What she could do. And how good you could be, you know, and I think people, you know, we're creatures naturally most of us full of self doubt. And you need to have conviction that does something worthwhile that you can do. And I think a lot of people I know who end up to in creative stuff either. I think the visa shit. All they think the the best thing in the world. And possibly both at the same time. So it's to manage that sort of power way. So that you can actually keep on working hard is what you need to learn. Some people are going to get that foster. Find it easier and be more eloquent with it. But it should exclude. No one and everyone has their own voice. And the possibility of doing some as you know, let enthusiasm Beal compass. It's a message that was reinforced for him at the academy of chiefs London summit in two thousand seventeen one of the beautiful things that happens at the academy summit is that onerous from wildly different disciplines are able to connect in commune. Peter Gabriel found himself sitting next to the renowned biologist, sir. John girton over dinner. He told me when he was at school of all students in the. School of which two hundred fifty he was number two hundred fifty and signs, and he found a teacher afterwards who inspired him and allowed him to think actually I can do this. And you know, he's now go to Nobel prize and. So that's what I say to young people. Now is that don't let any obstacle on people discourage you from what you're passionate about. It should be like dogs going in the park. You know, you go in there. With your tail wagging, you sniff anything interesting and you jump on it. Peter Gabriel is passionate about a lot of things and has jumped at it all songwriting and singing, of course, family life, but also opening doors for musicians from around the world, and developing technology and campaigning for human rights. So if he had to describe his core talent, a think hustler. I'm trying to get things to happen. And I work hard. I think probably it's said I have managed to fool myself into believing slings a possible wearing what did you learn about getting over the hurdles to make something happen? It's that. Yeah. Win, but you need to put yourself in in the right place in. One of the people I was talking to about this said in the Kabbalah is in saying that if you get very sick, you change your name and change your address, and actually that's quite smart because you're putting your mental framework in a different environment. And I think to get something done allow yourself to be this other thing, and, you know, the baggage in the what the pasta syndrome, I'm not going to be able to do this. Or all these people saying this stuff about me, and maybe they're ripe and that allows you to show that out and say, okay, doesn't that? Actually, you know. Let's just give it a go and go for it. And a really I think the main thing for young people is going to be plenty of doubt and nays has. Trust. I have what I call my little voice. And it sometimes says things to me that noon rational and an I try whenever I can't follow. It. Little boys is actually more helpful than the big voice. Yeah. Little voice is is intuitive instinct in the and we I think we will have that intend to block it out very easily. Is there anything you can do to imply a little? My wife recently, come out of cancer and. So have spent a little time thinking about. How people function what makes them feel good? Keeps that health. And so on. And one of the recommendations for people is. Devised. Think of everyone, you know. Who makes you feel good and bigger who makes you feel bad and smaller. You know, where to go, and you know, who to exclude that helps it's seems city, but the same with I think a lot of activities in life. You know, it's it's we need just to analyze. What's working for in whole where we instinctively at ease. Fini were going with the flow where are we feeding reopen and he just do more of the right stuff? Well fed which pretty much brings us back to the moment that Peter Gabriel listened to his little voice telling him to leave his very successful rock band. Genesis for a solo career in case you need a refresher. I'm going to take two minutes here to play just a few of his biggest hits from the late nineteen seventies and the eighties and the night. The city light. Equal. Of the night. Will in. About. Without? You might have noticed a glaring omission from my montage. I thought it just needed its own moment in the sun. I'm talking, of course, about in your eyes. It would be very hard for any interviewer to talk to Peter Gabriel about his life and work without coming around to asking the in your eyes question and our interview or married. Jordan was no exception. What did Peter Gabriel thinks she wanted to know when he saw John cusak. Forgive me, Lloyd Doppler blasting the song from a boombox held high over his head to back the girl in say anything the scene is what made say anything the romantic teen classic that it is. And as I record these words, by the way, the movie is just days away from its thirtieth anniversary. I have no idea is going to become this Kohnic thing. But very grateful that it was chosen because it was it's one of the most parodied scenes in Hollywood. Is on it. So I'm happy for that. Such a great line. I want to touch the light the heat. I see in your eyes. You know, the the words they're right. But light heat your is these are the same words in a lot of love songs. What is it about the order or the Melanie behind why to some of these love songs like that one laughed? Well. I was in love with a lot of African music around that time and bits of written Senegal. But one of the ideas interested me in Africa music, is that a love song could be, you know, a love for a woman all love of God. And to could be confused with no problem that they could be about love. Whereas in our society, you know, spiritual was one side, so sexual romantic was another and. So that fusion was what I was trying to explore lyrically. And and in the music was definitely some African influence, and I think so it has a life too that. Flows effortlessly, and then, you know, as working with you soon who does amazing singing, it is an Djelic voice at the end. So I think a combination of of those things help to to to work. This song introduced you Sutin door to audiences outside of Africa inside Africa. He was already a superstar perhaps the biggest of all time. Peter Gabriel didn't just use that mesmerizing voice on the song. He invited indoor to tour with him when his mega hit albums. So came out in nineteen eighty six two years later, you Sutin door was one of the featured artists along with Peter Gabriel and Bruce Springsteen and sting entry C Chapman on the human rights now tour for Amnesty International the Philadelphia stop on the tour, by the way is the concert. I referred to at the top. Where I I saw Peter Gabriel live. It was one for the ages our interview or marriage Orden ask Gabriel how he made that turn from rockstar to political rockstar while I sort of fell into human rights for the I didn't. You know came from a comfortable background men. My when I put my calling card in. I think was when I wrote the song Biko and. You know, I've been interested in what goes on in the world when Steve Biko was arrested a lot of people felt that the public- surrounding his arrest would be enough to protect him. So there was a real sense of shock when we already was but he'd being murdered. Stephen Biko was an activist in South Africa during apartheid and was leader of the black consciousness movement. When he died at the hands of state security officers in nineteen seventy seven twenty thousand people attended his funeral. Peter Gabriel's song Biko came out three years later. It became one of the most powerful anti-apartheid human rights songs ever recorded an actually head pretty big political impact. Whoa. No hood, people would sing it in South Africa, and it was Houston rallies and so on so that. Stadiums. So that was it was great to hear. I mean, when we did the human rights now to fight it was towards the end of the apartheid government and the were interesting discussions. Whether we should go to South Africa or not because we being honest by the anti-apartheid movement, not to go cultural boycott yet Houston, do and Tracy Chapman. The blackout is with us. They actually know this is part of a process of opens things up liberalizes. Some we had those discussions and we ended up. Bill Graham was there used these two planes one full of gear and the other full of musicians and crew and and occasionally when gigs can't Soto people go scattered us in a we'd be there with a map of the world from where can we land our planes? That was some quite unlike any other tour. Sort of life changing experience for many of us because we human rights me, something, you, you know, you read about seeing the the guardian newspaper, but. We hadn't really met many people around the world that I've been tortured lost loved ones seventy that they were talking to us, and and it's very hard then at that point to walk away. And I found the very compelling. I was also shocked that people could go through something experiences, and then have the horrors totally denied buried, and forgotten it, it was I think it was important in the membership of amnesty was doubled around the world as a result of that tour and for all of us as musicians, I think it changed the way we saw a role and how did it change? Well, made us convinced actually, you know, you may not change the world, but you can have an impact you can be part of a process the questions and. Proposes something different. And you've said music is a universal language it draws people together and prove as well as anything the stupidity of racism. Well, we put together this festival which is still going now was nineteen eighty. We started work on it and eighty-two office dependents, wo matte world of music and dance. And. A bunch of us had really started hearing what we thought were incredible artists from other countries around the world were never going to get on our radio at that time and those maybe a couple of record stores where you could find them easy in London. And so we thought let's can event together and bring a lot of people from around the world. To extend the reach of these artists from around the globe. Peter Gabriel and the woman festival gave birth to a studio and a record label called real world. If you go on their website, you'll see over a hundred of their artists listed musicians from Africa Asia the Middle East Europe, north America, South America, Oceania, the Caribbean and the Indian subcontinent sometimes together on the same album. I really worry right now that we got this whole tied moving of politicians in many countries that are becoming elected trading on fear and hate and division, and and racism is underlying that and this of the immigrant as the enemy whereas in who was very few countries. Want built out of and by immigrants, you know, history. Our history is always moving and flowing and. Olis extremist hate filled anti then stuff is silent thing. I'll bet nature which I'm still convinced as. I would like to see a young young people many of whom still idealistic as they always own. Create some sort of movement, and you know, hippy movement was what happened when I was a kid. And I think we need young people to generate some sort of back to this extremist populist monopoly for media. Which is. There used to be so positive about the power of technology and a mobile phone in the hands of a poor person. Could give limitless knowledge are you as optimistic about the power of technology now one hundred percent? That the potential of technology, you know? I was at this price didn't deal the night. And and they have projects now to use technology to feed a billion people to get kids. But Conrado right reading and writing in any language within eighteen months. I mean, we have a project we're trying to kickstart about streaming medical treatment as because when the digital revolution hits medicine, not just in diagnostics and treatment. It's going to get access to people around the world in the same way that the phone gave people access to communication too, we compete Lia to Google, you know, that's it's very powerful. But I think people who I believe working for themselves using media much more effectively than people who. Working full for mankind. Peter Gabriel going back at least to nineteen Eighty-nine was finding ways to use technology for good that year. He founded an organization called witness, their slogan is see it film it change. It people often think it was inspired by the Rodney King incident when a bystander videotaped Los Angeles police officers as they brutally beat Rodney King during an arrest. But the truth is Peter Gabriel's organization witness was already in the works before that day. It grew out of the Amnesty International human rights now tour, what was very clear whenever someone had suffered a human rights abuse. And they manage to get on video or they got their experience. And they were telling the story on video. It was much tougher for those in power to bury that story and. You know, people would respond emotionally to to the video content, and so Reebok human rights foundation who had funded the amnesty tool had this. I made a proposal to try and bring in an entity either within the foundation separate would use video technology and trying on activists some people who find themselves and human rights struggle with video and. Eventually that took a while that was adopted a now, I think we have the same opportunity with data. That's an amazing group cold front sick architecture. They have amazingly detailed approach the data. But we are moving to the age when video can be faked much better. So what's next? So I think it's data rich. Okay. So they would look at for instance, save some work on Bohm's in Syria, and they've taken photos from everyone's camera around tomboy, the Bom was dropped and recreated three dimensional flow. Matt of the cloud created by the bomb that also been able to identify the Bom and the manufacturer suchlike. Forensic evidence in in supreme detail Nate create a time line. So it's basically like creating a three-dimensional version of. A bad event. I mean, they don't they don't get the they just present the evidence and the evidence speaks for itself. This is the next generation of human rights campaigning. Do you spend time on this? You know, you can sit at a beautiful piano in your beautiful studio outside bath and England. Well, if think it's exciting and always my dad was electrical engineer inventor, and he came up with some with an Italian sort of thing Donna program, which was so electric democracy home shopping education on demand, but this was nineteen seventy-one access through the rotary dial telephone. So it was a little ahead of his time. But his mission was sort of empowering technology. So that is part of what press my buttons is. When you see people that can use technology to great advantage. There's one other significant project we have to at least touch on before we go that's been a labor of love for Peter Gabriel and one of his proudest achievements. It's called the elders. The idea grew out of conversations that Gabriel was having with his friend the business. Magnate Richard Branson about the desperate need for wisdom in world affairs. An seemed that the were individuals around the world people respected at the same time as losing trust in governments institutions and politicians. They came up with a list of elder statesman. And we're trying to think of how they could possibly pull off getting such an illustrious, but far flung group to agree. Get on the same page and try moving the world a little closer toward peace Justice and human rights with both concluded that Mandela had more of a sort of moral currency having out of twenty seven years jail, trusted, his enemy to be build the future with him after they killed and tortured many of his friends, that's a pretty big leap that most leaders. On not capable of. It was a huge long shot. But in two thousand one they got their chance over lunch with the then president of South Africa. We did on page and dollar was really not very impressed. Again. He said, I'm sure people in power that wanna bunch of old times into fearing. But by the end of the meal, he said there was this time when they asked me to intervene with Hutus took zipping of slaughtering each other in Rwanda and the young generals on both sides. Actually, we only gonna earning going to negotiate with you everyone else he has gotten agenda, but with you it's like token to our dad, and we trust you, but you have no interest other than a good outcome for everyone. And so that was the sort of currency that persuaded him to take it on. But it still took another few years to to get it, you know, because he was being hustle by every well meaning person in the world who knew that Mandela magic. Spring crew some very Dustin whatever it was they were trying to do so met the hustler in Peter give no richest bad housing. And so, but yeah, eventually came around, and we had this launch in two thousand seven and show bug. In this Fulmer court building where in a lot of his black calling sipping sent to jail and so on. It was some amazing moment. The elders is now a full fledged organization that tackles arrange of pressing international issues and the elders themselves. They're sixteen of them come from almost as many corners of the world as the musicians on Peter Gabriel's real world record label one of the elders by the way is former US president Jimmy Carter who will be the featured guest on the next episode of this podcast. But I digress. A little. There are a lot of actors and writers musicians who get involved in political causes and charities and find ways to give back, but it's hard to think of many artists who've so deeply and consistently used their stature and their influence to help others as Peter Gabriel a couple of years ago. The singer Taylor swift told NPR that Peter Gabriel had a huge influence on her musically because his approach was so innovative in a head of its time. And that he was quote remarkable at giving people what they want. But didn't think they want it the same could very well be said of his work to make the world a better place. So you're only sixty eight years old as we fit here this London hotel room, not far from Notting hill. And when you look back, you're still have lots more to do. But when you look back is there anything you would have done differently. I think you know. When you get reflective. You know, always thinking my death bed. I'm not reading care about anything to do with work. It's the people you love treating them. Right. And I think I could have done some things better there. But I've had a really interesting life. And I push myself to do things that were go where I was afraid what I was in co- uncomfortable in and always got a lot back from it. So I feel very grateful very lucky and lots of ways that's Peter Gabriel. He was interviewed by Mary Jordan who by day is a correspondent for the Washington Post. Peter Gabriel has a new album out later this week April thirteenth two thousand nineteen. It's a collection of his songs from the movies called rated PG. Get it PG. Peter Gabriel the one you're hearing is down to earth from the movie wall e. Escaped. Changing the script and the scene. I'm L is Winkler. And this is what it takes from the academy of achievement. Will you can come by guest? We're. What it takes his generously funded by the Catherine b Reynolds foundation. Thanks to them. And to you for listening. Come up. Then we got out. We wanted. We missed. No. We got.