#211: Men of War, Pt. 1 Gallipoli (1981)


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The show of movie of the Week podcast devoted to classic film and how it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha Robinson. Here with Scott Tobias and genevieve Kofsky for next two episodes were digging down into the trenches and slogging through the mud in the blood of World War One with two films about young soldiers in desperate situations and as a special nod to one of the films were about to discuss. We're we're going to have this conversation in continuous real time. Wait what you heard me. This is going to be one of the most ambitious expensive podcast episodes ever produced. It's going to be breathtaking. We're GONNA talk about these movies in what seems like an unbroken flowing stream rather than constantly cutting away from this conversation the Tasha you know. That's pretty normal for a podcast. Cast wait what basically we just sit down and have these conversations about film with each other in real time I mean I tweak them a little to remove conversational dead ends and verbal baubles but adults edits are usually pretty much invisible in result always comes out pretty much like a real time continuous exchange. That isn't really all that innovative or expensive. For that matter may still still be telling me IT'S A it's pretty standard for podcast listeners. To not know who's GonNa die during an episode or which one of our podcast is going to be forced to murder somebody in a moment of extreme danger. Oh hello look. We argue sometimes by hope. None of us is planning to kill anyone here at the table. But we'll speak for yourself keith because Tasha keeps needling me about how much she hits tropical malady. We're just talking about war movies tonight Tasha. We're not actually going to war. And we're not trying to simulate the experience of stumbling through a war unlike the two thumbs. We're here to talk about fine. You seem to know a lot about what's going on. Why don't you set us up for this week's big unpredictable real time battle? Sure I'd be happy to it's not a very belligerent. unwarlike attitude Peters nineteen eighty. One Film Gallipoli follows a pair of young Australian men who joined the war effort out of a mixture of patriotism pride and recklessness and wind up in the trenches on the Turkish peninsula of Gallipoli during a particularly horrific moment in a tragic battle there Sam Mendez's current film nineteen seventeen which was just nominated for ten Academy Awards similarly Mullaly takes place during a world war one battle logs time among the weary men in the trenches there were glibly is a kind of mosaic jumping around to establish its characters lives in the pressures in hopes hopes. Take them to war. Mendez drops viewers into the middle of the conflict and introduces his two young protagonists as they set out on a mission that he presents in real time in a story carefully crafted to appear as if it's one continuous shot. These are two different stories about young men in World War One but they both center on surprisingly young men delivering crucial messages trying to save lives. It's a key Intel for the much older commanders. Sending thousands of boys like them into battle and in both films time hangs heavily over the characters in a variety of ways as the clocks. Run down boasts of friends get pushed relentlessly closer to a final bloody conflict. That's why we all time was so important to this episode. We're GONNA do it. All in one unbroken take weight genevieve for you've fading me out and bringing up the music for a break. I've wanted to be a film critic since I was sixteen years old and I've been fortunate enough to turn my passion into a profession. That's given me a good living throughout most of my adult life but with our industry contracting I confess turning away towards screenwriting seeing perhaps I can take a crack at writing a script myself so I did. Search for screenwriting courses on skill share an online learning community community with thousands of on-demand classes for aspiring and developing creatives. So you can get inspired and learn at your own pace the such a range of creative outlets you can pursue on skill share whether you're looking to get into graphic design web development animation podcasting film and video production and as it happens plenty of classes on screenwriting so so I dropped in on feature film screenwriting. The first ten pages a class taught by screenwriter and web designer Kevin Kala cows logic is that new writers need to grab have the reader within the first ten pages of script or gatekeepers will pass on it. The class also has helpful tips on out letting your script following good writing habits incorporating running feedback. Thanks to skill share. I have some good practical advice show. I ever want to try a second act. Thanks skill share for supporting the next picture show and giving our listeners. There's an opportunity to get inspired and create something the love you can join. The millions of students aren't learning on skill. Share get two months free when you sign up at skill share dot dot com slash next picture. That's two months of unlimited access to thousands of classes for free go to skill share dot com slash next picture to sign up that skill shared dot com slash next picture now on the spot one two one two one two springs steel still springs. When are they going to do home down the track? How fast can you run fastest half hour style? You're going to run as fast as a leopard. Then let's see you do it. When Peter Weird discusses his nineteen eighty one film Gallipoli? He makes the process of cracking the story send a lot like the structure of the story itself. He started off with an idea about a world war one narrative breath and a friend pointed him toward the Australian involvement at Gallipoli. The Turkish peninsula were some key battles took place is Britain. Allies attempted to knock Turkey out of the war and lost a quarter of a million soldiers before acknowledging defeat in withdrawing a year later while in Britain for the premiere of his film Picnic at hanging rock. We're took a side trip to the battlefield where he says he wandered around for two days among the detritus of a war from sixty years earlier among belton bones and shells from the war. He found an unbroken bottle of fruit salts which we see in his final film acquaint gift from ladies Auxiliary Overseas Senate random to a young soldier who finds it hilariously off-base irrelevant to his current life. The setting in the sense of lives lived and lost on that spot inspired. We're but he says it still took years to crack with the foam should actually be and the development process like the film itself happened in short scattered pieces. He says he and screenwriter. David Williamson initially wanted to start with the characters enlistment in nineteen fourteen and tell the story up to the evacuation of Gallipoli in nineteen fifteen but their drafts. It's felt incomplete now to focus we're told literature slash film quarterly nineteen eighty-one. We are not getting it with this thing was the burning center. That made Columbia legend. I could never find the answers in any books. And it certainly wasn't evolving in any of our drafts. So he put the legend one side and simply made up story about two young men really got to know them. Where are they came from? What happened to them along? The way spent more time getting to the battle and less time on the battlefield. The draft fell into place by approaching the subject obliquely. I think we'd come close close to touching the source of the methods we could. I think there's a Chinese proverb. It's not the arriving at one's destination but the journey matters. Gallipoli is about two young men on the road to adventure venture how they crossed continents in Groshans climbed the Pyramids and walked through the ancient sands of Egypt and the desert to the outback to their appointment with destiny at Gallipoli. Compared to Sam Mendez's World War One drama. Nineteen seventeen which we'll talk about next week Gallipoli may seem scattered as it jumps around. Through incidents in the lives of two young men. Eighteen year old stockman racing champ archie. Hamilton played by newcomer. Mark Lee and railway worker and runner Frank Dunn played by a startlingly young Mogensen. The two briefly meet at a local festival where Archie is after. Break a speed record and frank is just hoping to bet on himself and win enough money to start a small business but he loses the race in winds up broke any tags along with archie. Who's running away from? I'm home and hoping to join the military. Archie is a Patriot full of idealistic dreams about the glory of war. While frank just lets himself be needled into enlisting because archery's accusations of cowardice hurt his pride and because arches conviction infectious. They're separated and then reunited so they both end up traveling. The world on their way to go paulie global is a coming of age movie and and for one of these two characters and ending age movie. But it's also an illustration of an ideal from Australian culture one that has parallels in other countries but maybe not as precise a term from overseas the Larrikin streak. That is the impulse among young men to be Brash Rowdy and anti-authoritarian but in a well-meaning playful way was commonly noted didn't newspaper editorials and literature in the early nineteen hundreds but in World War One specifically it took on a positive spin for Australian culture as Larrikin boys were seen as the national national contribution to an international war. We're specifically captures. The larrikin impulse with his young soldiers mocking the British racing up the Pyramids in Egypt and tricking their way into an officer's there's ball and there's a particular streak in Archie who's under-age and has to fake his way into the army with francs help and glued on facial hair. Archie has his deep seated beliefs about what what Australia the war effort against the Evil Hon. And he can be preachy and judge mental and frank crosses them but both characters are also mischievous and boyish and they seem to see wars larque until they actually get there but the tragedy of Gallipoli isn't just that they're betrayed by incompetent commanders and bad communication. It isn't that they trap themselves in the conflict. And you're left with no way out. It's the up to the end. Both barely passed boyhood and we're captures both sunny hopes and their fears their courage under fire the way their conviction shapes them and by the final final scene both of them are still as we met them in the beginning of that road to adventure with archie running as fast as he can and frank looking for an escape. They're both meant to embody the flower of Australian in youth as lively young men with good hearts the best intentions. The tragedy hasn't where the Larrikin spirit leads them. It's the way the body so many other young men with the same spirits led to the same awful inevitable that end We might say because he's a bright. Yeah so did you guys have any past relationship to glibly. I mean I. I have a pretty strong relationship to this film computer. We're in general I think Peter. Weir's a filmmaker who should be talked about. This is an absolute master and isn't quite as much for my taste easy. He's made a lot. The Great Films Gallipoli I would include among them on the other thing. I remember leaving globally. I saw it had been a while since I've seen it I I Feel like you're reminded reviewed it for on DVD or something for one of our publications so maybe not that long ago but but my feeling is that it's got you know one of the all time great powerful endings of film ever basically. Just it kills me every single time I see it and this time I watched it in the context of a a whole bunch of other films about World War One. I wrote a piece for the Guardian connected to nine hundred. Seventeen about sort of the history of films about that war four and Globally just fits so well into that tradition about eager young men who are hopped up on nationalism in who ultimately fall parade to you know the catastrophic decisions an arrogance of their leaders that is the story of World War One and you see that story played it out again and again in movies like all quiet on the western front in the in the big parade in House of Glory. I mean all the subject of these films are in so It was nice to see glibly really following that tradition and then also do things a little bit differently by giving you just this little bit of battle at the end and it so effective that way. Too Shorten as Peter. We Are you told the story your intro about how the script came together. It feels so right that the amount of time they're actually embattled you could even call it. That is a couple of minutes since the end of the movie. Basically determine you know they just comes out of a comes out of the trenches when they shouldn't come out of the trenches and everyone gets mowed down on the movie so in that and that really you see that happens so often in world war one movies where were you all this time the trenches and then You know you poke your head out and you're up against all sorts of machine gun nests and you don't get you very far so I don't know I'm rambling but I do think it's a it's a very powerful film I'm like at the exact opposite end of the spectrum from Scott I had pretty much. No Experience Gallipoli. I knew it by name. I think I knew it was a war movie. And that's about outed but After watching this you know. I'm kind of a regretting that fact because I really enjoyed this movie and I was kind of surprised at the extent to which which I enjoyed it I was fully expecting to kind of come out of it with the sort of like a respected. What was going for just wasn't for me type type of reaction which is Kind of what. I ended up having a lot of war. Movies are movies that are playing in the the realm that I assumed Gallipoli was playing in but You you know as as you note it really only becomes a quote unquote traditional war movie in the last twenty minutes or so Everything leading up to that. I was really disoriented watching being this movie in a in a pleasant way. Because it's I didn't know what I was seeing like. This is like a sports movie now. It's it's training movie like in there. I was like when when are we getting to the fireworks. Factory even really want to get to the fireworks factory so much but like it's just really enjoyable in a lot of like it's a beautiful filmed. Look at the photography. The Australian landscapes the Cairo portion that shot on the pyramids you know and even in the once once they get that underwater shot. I feel like we. We're GONNA have to talk about that but it it was just. It really drew me in in the effect of that was when I got to that final shot and that abrupt ending. It just really really threw me for a loop one of those experience where I kinda just sat quietly through the credits I had to process it. I'm still kind of processing and I only watched it last night but yeah this was a really kind of surprising and enlightening viewing experience for me so I guess we're kind of in the middle because I'm with Scott in that Peter. I think a great filmmaker who's not talked about enough I think he's made a number of stone cold masterpieces picnic at hanging rock. Because if you haven't seen it's haunted me ever since I've seen it I think fearless is is is one of those two movie. Not Enough people saw or talk. How about anymore? But it's an incredibly powerful this film with that list but I also saw for the first time I was doing a lot of war movie article and I just haven't got around to this one and and and yeah it's a it's a great movie and I and I never got it again to precisely the ways in which is great but I think both of you touched on part of what makes it so powerful as all the time you you spend with these. These boys boys boys you know before you get there and help brief the the battle is and I think it's so poignant but I mean you know the battle at the end the the sense that this is death no matter what they do everyone doing this is going to die. There's no chance but it's part of the process of warrant and like I think it's you know the rare warm maybe to tell us the truth about war by showing things like that. That part of command is sending people. The you know are going to die to serve a larger purpose I I kept thinking of the chapter in Cavalier clay they're talking about the the the flag signaller and how the average age average time they live is like forty two seconds. So continuance sending people out to die to serve this one part of the war and and it's part of the horrible calculus of warfare. But Yeah I was. I was blown away by seeing this and I'm happy we're talking about it. I wasn't expecting to have one of those movies that I saw and wrote what I needed to write about it and then I had no one to talk to you about it so is and so glad most want to find out. Why is that donkey laughing? I never really got the postcard but I I saw Gallipoli in college and I just remembered it as a spectacular lead a powerful and moving film. And we're watching it. I had the same sort of when we get the fireworks factory for feeling but it wasn't. When do we get to any specific action? beat it. It was like why don't we get to the tremendously moving part. I didn't remember most of the incident from this movie. I just remembered the emotional shock of it. And as we're just kinda like Larrabee through like all of these different little adventure Litz I just I just kept thinking like none of this has the impact that I remember And I felt a little well oil dismissive about some of it along the way it reminded me a lot of the the boys cutting up In Mash which we talked about endlessly especially the sequence where for the soldiers led by Mel Gibson's character. Basically harass and bully and Egyptian shopkeeper. And then find out they've they've harassed and bullied the wrong man except except they most of them don't know and it's very clear that they're not actually going to do anything about it but the fun just picks up. It's a big rolling stone. It picks up power and impact as it goes forward. And then you get to that ending and you realize where it's been going all the time it reminds me in that sense of Nicholas. Rogues don't look now there's a lot of stuff in the movie that's just sort of okay. That's interesting but why is it here and then you get to the end. You realize why everything's there you realize the impact of of the cumulative effect of getting to know these characters and then seeing what becomes of them and I once again I came out of a very moved. Yeah once Adagio for strings kicks in five minutes before the end of the movie and just in you know kind of what's what's coming and all this preparation that everyone is making. Did I basically. There's you get little bits of a letter to a loved one. You get someone putting their ring on on the health of a knife to left against the trenches were somebody else to pick up. And there's just there's like this almost like the music gives it almost like this the quality of like a religious or spiritual ritual that they're all having to go through before This terrible inevitability it kills me. It's the it's so moving and like and of course the end is the famous little final shot which became the poster for the movie. Strange thing to do you just eat it. Clear what that significance is the significance of that is and how it matches up with him. You know crossing the finish line. I guess as runner that stance but whatever its first grade beautiful so beautiful that freeze frame and the music. That you mentioned it underlined for me that this is a crescendo. Like the whole movie has just been building building building in. You think you really see that. In the way that the war like the reality of war just gets closer and closer and more in focus as the film progresses because it opens with you know these guys kind of reading reading about Gallipoli in the paper in talking about it talking about whether they don't want to join up and then you know we get closer to it as we get to Perth within the actual recruitment and get a little closer to it in Cairo with the training in the wargames and then we even all the way up to the landing on the beach limply like even though they're actually in the thick of it at that point they're still the sort of sense of almost frivolity there's definitely explosions shells counseling. Excellent going in the background. But everyone's still like like Franks looking for bacon like he was solicitor playfulness or. This isn't really real sense to it right up until that last sequence when they're actually going out of the trench in it's like this is the moment where it becomes real in that that really does feel like the emotional center of of the movie like the slow dawning of the realization of what war really is and what it really means to die for your country once. You're actually doing it and not reading about it in the paper. There's an to degree to which the Adagio for strings sequence. I didn't I didn't entirely take it as is kind of a reaching an emotional climax of the movie I took it almost as a reminder like this is a very rarefied thing like the fact that Major Barton has his own record player like a kind of ridiculous luxury at the edge of the front line. And he's playing this music and singing along with it and people keep kind of like peering into His little H. Q.. Like looking at him. Leakey's crazy this is like listening to classical. Music is kind kind of an older man's thing and kind of an upper class man's thing and they they can't really relate to it and you put that in contrast with all the things you see Franken Archie doing throughout the film. You know laughing at a pitcher of male genitals during a briefing on sexually transmitted diseases or clowning around with each other and like breaking into to an officer's party in order to guzzle down free free champagne lake all of these. These games are like young man's games and then you get just this brief view of like an older older man's life an older man's love an older man's of marriage and older man's entertainment and it's a reminder that they're never gonNA reach that age themselves. They're never going to come to a place where they're going to like appreciate the same kind of things the same kind of lives. Maybe frank will. Maybe he survived the battle. Maybe he takes the message back. He's the one who survives to tell the leadership well it didn't work out and everyone's dead But for Archie. The story ends here. He's never going to be a major Barton he's he's never going to kiss a Kind of gentle but homely looking wife who's going to beg him to come back like none of these things are prospects for him. Imagine how what frank is coming back with to say frank survives. What memories does he have to be broken by what you've experienced in his? I mean that you know. So then that film with his reaction when he doesn't make it when he can't get the message across when that wave goes anyway it just pierces the heart and his motivations ovation's for being there are so distinct from our cheese in you so you can kind of extrapolate how he would walk away it from this battle differently than Archie would obviously archie doesn't but if the if the roles were reversed like what's interesting about. Frank is again his his motivations nations for the war because he spends a good portion of the first act of this movie ca saying he. He doesn't WanNa do at an even when archie is like flat out telling him he should join the war effort. Can we discuss amongst ourselves. What what's the turning point for? Frank like what what. What makes him decide? This is what he wants to do. What's his real motivation? Here a pick it feels like designing better too. Yeah Yeah there is some of that. There's there's definitely some of him being motivated by Archie calling him a coward word out in the the dried up desert but I think to some degree the the real turning point is when the light horse turns away when he can't out up a horse and okay mock him and he sees his younger boy. Go off to do something he's been told he's not good enough to do. I don't think he would immediately go off in enlist list without that but then when he runs into his friends and they're all headed off to do it. Like here's here's an outfit. He knows he can get into. He can be doing something with his pals but he can also kind of prove that. He's good enough after having been told in no uncertain terms. Oh you're not good enough and you're not as good as this like younger boy. WHO believes so much stronger or stronger than you do? I agree I think that's like what pushed him over the edge but I think his tune starts to change when they're at that cattle stop after crossing the lake bed meeting the man with the camel. That whole that whole adventure in Archie is talking about how they're traveling to Perth to join up or how he is and he gets toasted and all the the pretty girls are sort of looking at him admiringly and you kind of have this look at frank looking kind of like left out or jealous you know that felt to me that that that was where Franks sort of engagement with the idea of actually joining up begins and then getting turned away from the light horse. I'm sure amplified provide it more than hooking up with his mates In infantry I think is just went pushed it over for him but it gives it gives them a method. He's Pablo possibly already got the motive but it gives them a method. So I mean this is a very episodic movie there are all of these little bits and pieces there's the potentially fatal walk across the the River Pan there's the whole Enlistment the enlistment segment there is the Egypt segment with all of its different parts. Like are there particular. Take your parts of this that that work or don't work for you. At particularly strongly everything every piece works in counts and matters because it is still building something. It's still building this friendship between the two of them and it is leading US slowly and inexorably to the end in all those elements are so distinct. You know it'd be to think about like yeah. That's a fifty mile trek that they end up taking to Perth across that lake bed and that encounter with a camel drivers maybe is one of the most important things in the film because because they he doesn't even know there's a war on the war on our cheese arches things like you know what you know. The Germans could over there and then come over here. The tabled drivers like they're welcome to it right. This is like you look around. And it's just it's just arid desert so it's not really. It's such an absurd thing to think about but I mean this this is just the film kind of gets at is just how available young people like. This are to become pawns in this. In whatever the game they're leaders are trying to play. I mean that you you can is the call to adventure right. I mean he even archie has a little bit more of a mission in mind and he he. He wants to fight for his country. But for Frank. It's like it's it's that classic call to adventure and RT's do in it and You know he kinda gets swept up in it as well all I mean. I think it's it's very. It becomes very easy to find people like this. I mean remind me a little bit of like the. I saw all quiet on the western front. The nine hundred thirty four Alabama or one in that film is all about the teach starts with a teacher at a German teacher who's who's kind of rallying his his male students to join the fight and they don't know anything they don't don't know what's going on they don't know what's what's at stake but for their country and all the other boys are doing it and some of the some of the more reluctant ones are kind of swept along and I think that's kind of the story about how wars Boris Happen in in in how bodies are supplied For these these types of fights right yeah in the way. It's dressed up on the home front as as soon and that. You know patriotic duty. Do this to you know and I am not an expert on Australian history but my sense is that this was a kind of a turning point in independence don't since the Australian need to be an independent country would not serve the interest of Great Britain. FM visiting when no more about that than I do. I did a little research about in. I did want to jump into talk about that. Because there is a slightly different context here in the Gallipoli campaign came just fourteen years after the Federation of Australia. So it's considered sittard sort of one of the first examples of Australians participating in a in an event as Australians rather than a bunch of commonwealths and it's as I understand it from from my reading and if we have any Australian listeners I would I would love to hear more context about this but it sounds like this is The Glee the campaign is sort of considered a big moment in the nationhood of Australia. It's sort of wrapped up in what Tasha was talking about a Larrikin ISM. I'm in mateship. which is another apparently key element of of the Australian national identity in which is certainly a big part of this movie as well? The idea of mateship in Australia and meet is kind of more than just a friend. It's a term that implies a sense of shared experience mutual respect and unconditional assistance. Which I think we definitely see between frank and archie but also between Franken has his other pals snowy and forget the certainly? Yeah so yeah like as a World War One story this is kind of maybe not unique but different from I think a lot of the other World War One movies that we've that we've seen gene just in terms of what this specific point in history means to Australian history. Your think it's gone. Maybe a crucial point to it in contrast with some some of the other one movies which are really holy bleak and cynical about the entire affair the sacrifices that these his boss make are not in vain. That there's something that there's a spirit or there's something that they embody that is inspiring and something constructive that the country could kind of carry forward. After this unfortunate event you kind of see it play out again. Going back to that scene with the camera is a camera caller. Dromedary I I never got a good look at its back We we see it off in the distance and the predators Campbell driver. Okay Jerry. Very driver not necessarily much considered a thing But this older guy who you know is kind of rooted in this pre unification nation period of Australia and doesn't have really an understanding of the patriotism that Archie is carrying into this this desire to to join up in it not not even really patriotism. It is more of a call to adventure that seems to be kind of wrapped up in the Australian identity to a certain extent as well but sort of the idea of serving himself as Australian rather than a guy from the bush. I do want to go back to this idea of Stronger and weaker segments because in spite of what Scott said the kind of about how all of these pieces work equally. I just for me. That's not true. Some of the strongest strongest ones. I think the race across the outback with one man on a horse one man on foot I think is just so key to understanding who archie is understanding how quickly he takes a slight as a challenge and how quickly he is to to take up a cause even if it's one that's damaging damaging to him that self destructive that's a really terrible idea and yet how much hearty has I mean he can. He finishes that race with his feet torn up. He wins because the other man falls off his horse but you know he he just he rises to the occasion and he hurts himself dreadfully in the process and it just it seems Shatman. That's trough eight like that. It seems like such a great introduction to a character but also just like a great little bit of strange adventure like it just an a really exciting sequence and the trudge across the dried up. Lake feels so much like something out of Lawrence of Arabia. You know that the the the crossing the desert scene in Lawrence of Arabia. It's kind of terrifying way that from even the war. Sequences aren't again. There's just the sense of. I'm going to do what I've decided to do. And I'm not going to let nature stop me and as the Archie repeatedly finds that nature can indeed stop him. There's kind of a reconsideration ration- but did not much of a dimming of spirits and then that sequence that genevieve mentioned where everybody's strips down and jump into the water and then they're just sort of dealing pulling with shelling And trying to stay underwater in order to avoid getting getting shot. Like what a strange sequence. But how memorably Sean. Yeah and why. Why did why did he get money at the end of it? I didn't understand the whole insurance Element of it or betting. I think it was very clearly explained. My understanding standing was that they had a bet on that was basically the last man to come up out of the water would win the when the pot and everybody dumped their money in but they weren't expecting the shelling like it. It really plays out because of the lack of explanation like it's like hey man get shot gets the pot. Yeah but I don't think that's the case I. It seems like they were trying into stay underwater and then when suddenly bullets began flying they had to stay underwater and it seemed like they gave the pot to the man that got wounded kind of as a sort of a largish compensation since two. Yeah like a little bit of Larrikin ISM or a little bit of mateship if you like just hey we. We didn't mean for this to get anybody hurt art and I hear what what the heck just in the spirit of Camaraderie. You can have the money. There's money you're going to die before you can spend. It was bored with having fun right. He can Send that money back to back home in exchange for and by himself a case of fruit. Salt to answer your question about you know if there are any segments that maybe don't work as well as Others Tasha. I will say that the I don't want to say the Cairo segman goes on too long because like length and pacing is not this movie's problem but I feel like I didn't need to spend quite so much time in the bazaars brothels of Cairo with with that group of guys there's a lot in the Cairo scenes scenes that are amazing the race of the Pyramids that shot of them at the top and carving their names into the Pyramids and other all of that I love of like I guess maybe when I'm Kinda dancing around is the connection between Archie and frank is so strong and then we have this other side element of Frank's Franks other mates that I mentioned snowy Barney and billy and that sequences kind of a lot about francs connection with them and and it feels a little like were just setting the table so that they can die later in hindsight you know like I don't know how necessary that that dynamic is in the context of what. The movie is achieving with Franken Archie. But it's a minor complaint. I liked all the the local Colorado the sort of period period details and and what that culture was of soldiers in Egypt of the time but also I liked the question of which one is reluctant to to go to the prostitute is snowing now. You know it's Kinda raise the question like what what is virtue mean in the face of of imminent death. U2 You know And it's kind kind of touching the that he would try to hold onto that and Improv naive of him to try to hold onto that in this moment when well deaths right right around the corner and we don't know whether he dies but if he does he does a virgin and was proud of it because he was he was he was able to like look because his bride in the face on his wedding night which he didn't think anybody else would be able to I for me. The Cairo scenes do go on a little long but I found them fascinating like even if there there may be a little to drag your a little too much. Focus away from from the Archie Frank relationship for the film. They're just so fascinating in a historical sense. It's you know there's just a there's a real sense that we're really did get into the bazaars and brothels of Egypt at the time and you know even if he's recreating something from from much earlier in the century like what a what a strange time like it just I found myself thinking like I'm never gonNA go there like Egypt has has been on and off safe interests for for American tourists for quite a while and these days they don't I don't believe they let you run up the Pyramids and carve your name ain't on them or play rugby among the pure play right like just a what a what a different era and what an interesting portrait of that. I found it fascinating. Living in the world friend though Murray always found fascinating for instance Seventies Movies said that wander through Times Square in New York. You know you're you're seeing being a recreation of a specific thing or a fictional version of a specific thing but all around you as a backdrop of a real place that's in some ways is gonna you're never gonNA see again so he you know as much as I got a little tired of them Banging around on on mules singing songs about how awesome they were. I thought I just thought every moment of that film was a fascinating little bit of historical tourism and he likes to be outside appear. We're here you know. He's this is the director of a master commander of of mosquito coast of of the year of living injury of last wave of beaming and hanging rock. This is for for that reason witness right exactly. These dead poet's society is what does that is inside. Show a little more indoors but but but but he he he certainly has A Beautiful I and Green Card is set largely greenhouse. That starts have you seen Greek artists. Old Old Greenhouses apartment with. That's the reason why they why that relationship underrated is so is back me up on the screen card guard underrated green card. I've seen that with any McDowell and and Gerard Depardieu Gerard at the height of. You Know I. It's been so long I don't feel like I can. I can say didn't really. I'm sorry you're as you're stumping for weird. Generalized in the outdoor connection is actually a really good one year. You're right about I think he might just be a man who loves his natural light and his outdoor settings. But I I mean what do you see other strong connections between these. These are films with very different kind of Foci in this film. Looks a lot like hanging talk to me. Just in terms of the very people can look at each visuals and like the just the sense of kind of the exhaustion of being out in outside in Australia but like DC connections thematically between his work. Well Yeah I mean well also let me look at Look at master commander I mean. That's that's that's so beautiful. Such a massive is is such a great phone. I truly one of the great films of the of the century and again didn't get the respect that I think people love it now. There should be like three sequels to it though I mean I sir but but then he but he has a sense of historical authenticity is important to him. It's important that there'd be this a A very specific nick your detail oriented authentic feel to his work You laid in master and commander and he's very good. He's got a good alright. Alright last wave film he he did right before Cappelli or a few years before Gallipoli very bleached looking film if I recall correctly. Here's a question sir. I don't get to drop but what I liked the Truman show for saw it now. It just did not do a thing for me. I thought it was just kind of Oh man having revisited it not terribly long ago my like my big feeling like I never never loved Jim Carrey as an actor. He's of so big in so broad and he is acting so hard the film and I think it's A. It's a brilliant movie but I think pudding almost any other actor in that role would have improved that film spectacularly really and then just the places that goes in terms of the panopticon of life lack of expectation of privacy and The way we consider other people's lives Are like amusement. That were kind of entitled to these days are also present and so well executed but then in the middle of it. You've got Jim Carey. Make an donkey faces just nonstop mugging and like over the top flailing and for me like he comes. He comes so close to ruining that film film and he he he. He's trying as hard as he can ruin that film which is such a smart movie if there was a the thing that was going around recently on twitter about Pity film take one actor out of it replace everybody else with muppets. I I want. I want this film. Take him out. Replace him with a muppet. It would be less frequently and it would be moving Mostly with you. I think I'm not as harsh on hidden in that movie. Because there's this kind of an innocent his performance that S- crucial But I want to get too far off a off Gallipoli here because the Truman show does feel not very much is like Well maybe this is a good segue to talk about the Mel Gibson of it all since we're talking about. Who Am I to me how much I know Gibson at a time I'm you know and unlike I mean it's hard to sort out like how much that's been overshadowed by what we know about him now but I still find these these early performances Mad Max and I mean just so charismatic and naturally appealing and just has an ease about him. I mean it's kind of Harrison Ford like in some ways but without like sort of pretensions of coolness pretentious inches around. We're broke well like these hardened or success seems self effacing in a way that he hasn't a very long time. Yeah exactly I mean I. We could could go into where it went wrong for him. And how much has to do with his personal life. You know become self effacing again if you drive across concrete but like there was a period from lethal weapon two on it seemed like that was just like he became a star or any kind of changed him. And he he. He's more self conscious. y'All sort of joke year. Morris had a greater sense of his own cuteness. Set a lot of ways that we're kind of annoying But it's not present here. He's not a star yet. He's just you know beautiful charismatic blue eyed dude also. He's also most people that you know for obvious. Reasons have been watching a lot of Nicholas cage movies and and the Young Nicholas Cage looks like like Nicholas Cage but I think if you showed This era of Mel Gibson. Someone who would take him just a couple of minutes. If you didn't know was taking a little bit too pup- together who it was. He also just. This feels more like a person than Markley as archie like Archie. Just feels like a little like an angel come to life. You know he's got. Those striking is interest uh-huh sweet for the golden hair and the Tan. And he's like he's so full of conviction he's so full of his his own power in his own confidence He spent so much after the movie looking at Mel Gibson. Like why are you a better man and I like frank by comparison just feels like more like a more like a natural person more like a person who has a way to go to achieve perfection. You know somebody who hasn't yet gotten over his fears and found his confidence and he makes it makes them pretty bad mistakes in this movie And Archie to kind of floats along untouchable through it accomplishing everything. He wants achieving everything. What we see him? mm-hmm experienced doubt in the lake briefly. We see him experiencing a sadness a little bit but even at the very end of the movie he seems of of all of the the men about to go over the edge like the least afraid archie. Yeah Yeah I mean I. There's I'd love the contrast between these two characters. I mean that's kind of what gives the film a certain spark archie. I liked it. There's kind of an unbroken integrity and dignity to the to that character that carries them all the way played to the metaphorical finish line at the at the end. It so beautifully bookended by the race where he's talking to his trainer and going through all the the the the bit about you know his his legs being like steel springs and he's going to be as fast as a leopard and all that stuff in for him to kind of co through that ritual again before leaving the trenches it's moving and and The you know. Maybe it doesn't give him a lot of dimension mentioned as a character he's not a troubled character or characters filled with a lot of self doubt but it does give him integrity and spirit and kind of is you know symbolically important what this film is trying to get at speen unformed kind of what defines him in some way don't be undefined. Because he doesn't get get a chance to turn into a man. I mean I watched the few weeks ago and I didn't have time to watch the whole thing for this podcast but I watched a good chunk of it and knowing where it's going in watching I chant twice in quick succession or out of the session. The scene with his uncle Jack his uncle slash trainer play by play. Bill Kerr his you know warning him off for the war goodbye to worry knows what's coming the jungle book scene but also you realize he never gives his parents a proper goodbye you you know. He just says goodbye mom and never sees them again because he heads off to war. I mean it is. It is heartbreaking stuff. And it's so Bill Kerr it really like really love him. He just looked him up he only died in two thousand fourteen. He lived to the age of ninety two an active pretty much up till the end to. Yeah there's also oh man. There's an interesting parallel between the The the reading a jungle book seen and the the playing Adagio at the end end just that sense of like a a piece of art being performed and people kind of gathering around to to take a breath and experience it. I hadn't really drawn this connection but reading up on the cell might see a lot of people pointing out that the chunk of the jungle book that we hear is about maladies coming of age. It's it's about him. Transitioning into manhood with with weeping and pain which is sort of what the whole movie is really fully made that connection. But yeah. Yeah I mean archie is literally too good for this world. I mean when it comes down to it in the end. The reason that frank lives and archie dies is because Archie gave up a safe place as runner to make sure frank would survive and he did it because he wanted he still had that conviction he wanted to fight. He didn't want I want to be left behind. But he never takes credit for it. He never pointed out to frank. He dies with frank not knowing that he made this choice that he made this in a way. Sacrifice also connection to archie being an athlete. He views fighting for his country almost as another way of like pushing himself toward greatness in the same way that he pushes himself greatness in his racing. And I think the way that he approaches war. I mean it's right there in and the final shot that you know of of crossing the finish line of a race. I think there is something in the way that Archie approaches running and the dedication to that that translates to how he approaches war in his role in it is something that he is pushing himself to I do and to achieve and there's a contrast there in how frank a approaches his his running which is kind of mercenary. You know like He. He Bets on himself. He's doing it to make money. Not because he is trying to prove something to himself or to to other people. Well there's a lot of different different kinds of of striving arriving and decision making in this movie. That all kind of have to do with the idea of of being a young and reckless man. I'm curious if you guys have thoughts on what if anything anything weird specifically getting at here about young male friendships or young male decision making or young male sacrifice. It's so much of the movie is just about what it's liked to be this age and to have this level of conviction or doubt and it it fascinates me. I mean innocence is a big deal in this movie the I think I mean there's an ivy tae that comes along with it but also a purity to of inten particularly in our argies part sort and it's something that film emphasizes in preserves in a way. Structurally by giving you so little. They don't have you know. Be You know if half of the action takes a place on the battlefield not half no music thing you know if it were just reserved for the end. Maybe they'd have experiences that would Sully them in some way or they'd have to make decisions or maybe kill someone or do something like that that would that would Tarnish our image impression of them but they don't have that This is the they're innocent little ams or lead to lead to the slaughter and which is the story of World War One in the story you see repeatedly in World War One movies which are often very strongly antiwar emphatically antiwar because it was all about sending young people to slaughter when they died sending even younger younger into the slaughter so I think I think the film has a lot of integrity about eighteen and nineteen year old during listen. You know there's a point there's a reason I mean. I think it's kind of hard for us right now to get our head around what it was like. Especially you know I. I only know the statistics for Britain. But I mean Britain lost a third of a generation of men. I mean just just it's an UN- unthinkable lost just for what that does to a culture and all the people that came back with these horrible horrible war experiences. I it is it changes. The way of a nation thinks of itself or something like that happens and you know the idea of two hundred fifty thousand people for dying on that on that side dying in collegiate for a futile fight and like as we were talking about before I mean you know. We're we're ignorant and one hundred years later by mean in. What was what we're talking about? You know I mean I know basically what it was about but it's hard to contrast it's or either right that's insight you get from that. Peter Jackson documentary. What does they shall not grow? Yeah which is Kinda like almost a chorus of voices from World War One in none of them really we now. They're just doing their duty. They're they're doing what they're being told to do for the country and that's what they're available to do it and Boy When you that when innocence this is lost. It's lost in a profoundly horrifying way. Yeah I mean we're one is go to for a film about the futility of war what were to is your Go-to for film necessity acidity of war. But I mean I mean I wouldn't WanNA fight in any war but reading descriptions of World War One is one of the last ones. I WOULD WANNA fight it. Because it's just the idea being in these horrible trenches his for so long between battles we witness in this which are for a few inches in which you know mentally their lives for very little at all and I think the movie does a really spectacular job of drawing a archie as someone like whenever he talks about the war and his responsibility and where he talks in propaganda blurbs you know he he talks about the horrors of the savage Hon. Or they're going to come over here and take our land like he's talking in newspaper paper sound bites essentially. It's very clear that he doesn't really know anything about the history or geography or the stakes. And he doesn't have any personal stakes in any of this. He's he's been fed a bunch of boys propaganda basically but he believes so with such conviction with such deep emotional conviction. It feels admirable arable but at the same time as a grown adult. You kind of look at it and think add you know we need to educate yourself or you're going to get kit. Wait win the story of all wars. That's how I mean they're always going to be. It's doesn't take a whole lot to get people riled up not not to insult them at all. I mean it's it's you we. If you feel a pride and the love of country in in in a genuine sense that your freedom or identity is a nation is at stake. I mean you're you're gonNA WANNA fight for that you know. And it's the responsibility of leadership to make good decisions on your behalf. Well speaking of getting all riled up we should wrap soon but we really can't and tell we talk about the music and particularly about the electronic music Brought in during the running scenes. The Jami shall Jarrai excerpts. That's I think the noises that we're hearing are meant to of springs like the springs of his legs propelling him like Leopard across the track but the really really sound on Lake laser effects. And it's God kind of comic you're into like translate. I mean I I really Wien. I liked that album a lot. which are Jason Heller wrote about in his book? Strange Stars about connections between music and science fiction in the seventies and obviously the original context. It's supposed to be more spacey in that way but I think it really works for this long especially the they're the scenes early scenes whereas all this to us at least is exotic and strange looking Australia landscapes And I want it works for me. I I mean obviously it's it's of the time wherein and when since we're a much more prominent on soundtracks no matter what era was set in but I to me it works. Scott Vive Zap happy happy thoughts eighties. You know I found a little distracting the first time it happened but then when I realized it was just like the running Motif I it just became part of the fabric of the film and the Nineteen eighty-one Ness of the film. And I'm going to say I don't say Jacques Coups to chariots of fire extraterritorial the same year though. I guess what kind of thing you put you put running you know running in the early twentieth century to two electric music then yeah well yeah but does chariots. It's a fire have have spring spring slash laser noises. Good Question I wanNA score right. I know the tuna was afraid we're going to go one more thing before we move on. I am greatly amused by the Robert Film by Robert. Stig would and Rupert Murdoch. What are what is? Yeah if I remember correctly. was a Murdoch's father a grandfather. That was a was a veteran. A A journalist during World War One father and had a lot of stories that they drew on for this but Yeah that's That's certainly a named have pop up up in the credits lemons. Dick would of course is the famous music producer. He managed the BG's he bruce. The Saturday night fever soundtrack degree soundtracks. Just think instead of the laser noises Mrs. We could have had disco as he's running across the across the outback et. Didn't in a bump bump bump bump but rather beethoven right the fifty Beethoven. Yeah that's a good one. Yeah sure man. Well we should move onto feedback. And I'm certainly looking forward to listener feedback on I'd say the Jukebox Scott's rendition of he's soundtracks for the moment we're GonNa we're gonNA cut away from this ahead. We'll be right back with feedback Now it's time for feedback when our listeners weigh in with their responses to recent episodes and anything else in the world of film now every week we ask you to call awesome. Leave a short voicemail and every week very few of you do. But here's a voicemail specifically prompted by. Keith's foray into the new directors cut of them vendors until the end of the world and it poses loses some intriguing questions after he keeps article. Director's cuts I'm wondering. What do you guys think is the best way to approach a a five hour? Director's cut civically until the end of the world criterion. Really how many sittings do you watch it. And I'm curious what you think of this Trivial time allotment of question. So I think the ideal circumstances as any movie is to see Ah Theater. But that's and then that the second best way is to carve out time sit in a darkened room with no interruptions and put your phone in the other room and and just just watch the film straight through and this case all five hours of it now. Is that what you did. No absolutely not I dodge kit a dog. You know other distractions so I did watch in two interrupted sittings. Which is rare? They actually get to do that I I. I'm a purist at heart but I will. I watch movies interrupted all the time even shorter movies. Because I we're we're all friends. Frontier I take. I Take News on my Ipad to the gym. I watch I watch and realize the first hour there at least for the first time like the first viewing times spending offended purists like good films not like not like just like I know. I'll try not to watch sixty nine films. Take anything and in full screen aspect ratio. I'm fine with. I have a very busy life and I have to manage my time carefully and I watch a lot of movies and if you need to watch them on need to to work in you know every place as possible so the gem I can just stand there and stare at the screen is the biggest screams. Means is good as my TV but I have my headphones on total concentration apart from moving my legs up and down and so I watched I our their second hour at home. I I get in where I can you know. So let's let's say let's say a controversial in winter light by Bergman. You're at the gym. I would I I would watch. I watch it's close ups and Bergman you know you you don't have like like moving up and down right. You like working out museum bouncing up and down on trampoline. Now it's so good to see this level as a trail aimed at someone who is not me. I want to say two things here. I like to watch movies. I don't WanNa die young. So let's let's try to combine these activities in some way. Yeah no I mean I make no apologies. I've Nice ipad. It's fine. It's fine watching where you can when you can and as many break it up into pieces that you have to but no more pieces than you have to. I think that's my advice. Oh Man Yeah Sky on this podcast what what is. What's the ideal way to watch a five hour movie? Scott sitting down you know old sitting down and watching for five hours five hours. Five hours is difficult. I get it but I was. I was grateful for the opportunity to see the Irishman and three and a half hours. We could sit there in a theater with no interruption is something I mean something to see films in that but yes if you can't do it that way do it another way. That's my yeah I mean it depends on the film. You know what I'm talking about. You know what I'm talking about Jim. I'm talking about but Jim Movie. Though trying to work the crowd here Jim Movies like six underground. I I could watch that Jim. Okay all right but why. Why am I reformed in? The gym showed no for the first time I'd prefer not to. You can do it all right well as the moderator. I'm going to say that we're not going to answer this question anytime soon. Because we are butting up against the realities of the world and we've got kind of a a a nice little gold leafing going we've got our purest idealist here and our practical man who sees the reality of the world and they're probably both going to get killed by the end of this podcast go. I predicted in the intro. So we always appreciate when our listeners share their thoughts and their recommendations if you feel so inclined we can feature your response on a future episode owed to reach us and tell us why keeps way of watching movies is terribly wrong or terribly practical and not worth insulting you. You can leave another short voicemail at seven three two three four nine seven three zero or email us at comments and necks pitcher. Show dot net Well that's it for this episode of the next pitcher show in our next episode. We'll head back down into those shaky trenches for look at Sam. Menendez is nineteen seventeen. It'll be next Tuesday on apple podcasts. spotify in your pod Catcher of choice in the meantime you can support us on Patriot. PATRIOTIC DOT com slash next pitcher pitcher show find us at next pitcher show dot net follow us at facebook dot com slash next pitcher show and follow us on twitter at necks. Pitcher pod seal always know when a new episode drops until then pass the fruit salts. No not the basalt a really different

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