Digital Transformation in the NGO Sector; Part One
Hey guys we have a new giveaway this week. Thanks to our partner beta. We will be giving away. The luxembourg weighted blanket. Did you know that scientifically proven that weighted blankets can cause chemical changes ages in your body to help you relax and sleep better by increasing serotonin and melatonin the luxembourg to blink it helps you sleep better and gives you enhanced mood. It also decreases cortisol whereas all of us which helps to reduce stress anxiety. We're giving away five of these way to blink. It's this week to our listeners. All you have to do is enter the giveaway at w._w._w. View dot michigan dot o._r._g. Slash giveaway and we will be giving away. Five of these two are lucky listeners <music> welcome to mission daily today. We have a special episode as part of a two part series. Ian sits down with philanthropy and tech leaders to discuss thus why digital technology is critical for nonprofits to make a greater impact at the roundtable. We are joined by aaron bottle filter executive director of octa for good jane mesic senior director of microsoft apiece brian breckenridge executive director of box dot org and peggy duvet senior director of social impact at oracle net. That's sweet on this part. One episode the group dives deep into the importance of nonprofits speeding up their digital transformation so they may become more effective and deliver more impact into the future commission daily. I mean phase on chief content officer here emission dot org and we have in studio quite the roundtable for our listeners so excited to share this. We're gonna talking about philanthropy and tech and what tech leaders can do and what they are doing now. We're gonna do a little around the horn introduce everybody for our listeners who wants to ago. I <hes> i'm jay mesic. I'm a senior director microsoft philanthropies. I lead our tech for social impact philanthropy across nonprofits and u._n. Awesome thanks brian your next brian breckenridge executive director of embedded social enterprise at box inc called box dot org aaron aaron auto filter. I lead octa good which is the social impact arm of octa and peggy peggy <unk> senior director of adora conaty social impact and khalid a social impact <unk>. I want to start out by recognizing that net. Hope is kind of what brought us all the common thread that brought us together today brank you share more about net hope and and how you got involved in the first place yeah net hopes probably sixteen or seventeen years old got started on a kitchen table here in silicon valley with cisco and microsoft execs and a few folks that said it's probably time for silicon valley to really team up more with the n._g._o. World as a as the newly inbound executive director that helped found box dot org. We realized about six years ago that net hope was a tremendous partner for us to <hes> to start to have an impact on the way that the world's largest ngos which move about sixty percent of the eight around the world that are members of net hope would be a great partner for us and help us can drive value to their members so we started our our can ship within tim bus six years ago and so what is the center for digital nonprofit enough aaron you wanna take that yeah sure so you know as brian said net hope had been doing what it was doing for a long time in almost twenty years they really sat at the intersection of global ngos <hes> doing very important work in very hard to reach places and the tech sector with the tools and expertise technology to help accelerate that work the challenges. You really need an intermediary. That's gonna translate in both directions for that work to be effective effective and that's really what net hope had done for a long time <hes> what they realized a few years ago doing that work <hes> doing things like bringing connectivity to the last mile of for humanitarian aid needed to get delivered working disaster response to set up wi fi and power what they what they learn and all of that work was that the n._g._o. Sector more broadly was falling falling behind when it comes to technology <hes> and the gap was getting greater and greater and it was a huge risk to the world quite frankly when you think about the fact that <hes> as brian said sixty percent of the world's aid is delivered by the fifty seven or so net hope member ngos organizations like oxfam unicef f._c. The children so they decided that it was time to take a different approach. <hes> and <hes> came up with what is now called the center for the digital nonprofit which is <hes> a new the effort that still works at that intersection of the tech sector and n._g._o. Sector but is really focused on long term digital transformation for nonprofits and ngos to accelerate elevate their use of technology and accelerate their missions so we all at this table have jumped on as partners of that effort because for each of us we believe very strongly that that is tremendously important and very aligned with where we believe we can help. It's the classic adage that every company is a technology company now and kind of to take that further. It's like every free ngo is now a technology company on that and if you don't kind of steer into that then <hes> it's not going to be great for forever ruined the world quite literally jane any thoughts yeah. No i think <hes> jumping on what aaron said the creation center digital <hes> digital nonprofit really really leapfrogged what what hope was doing you know they were. They were that bridge to bring technology and processes and efficiencies to these large ngos <hes> and the c._d._n. Really proactively change that strategy to focus broadband digital transformation and focus on the people the processes and the technology allergy as well as putting the beneficiary or their client at the center of that and i think that was a big transformation in that hope as well as what brought us together in terms terms of how do we drive greater social impact not just you know helping printers work at these nonprofits but really transform how these organizations are supporting their beneficiaries cherries and the reach they can have an impact have been pay you. What are some of those success stories that we've seen so far i think for the sector arizona thing i guess would agree is <hes>. We've learned leaders in own limitations. We will represent big tech companies that have leading practices that help you know a nonprofit you stick nausea for social change but i think what this consortium and collaboration has brought us is really this more collaborative report which is more bottom-up <hes> which is yes we we have leading practices and we know what was best but we also know that when we on the ground and we understand what people do this is what we twenty chechen accelerate that the the mission of all those orders so i think that's the the biggest impact we've had so far and there's so much ahead of us but i think pretty power we we had a chance to join some of the visual gathering fournette hope and it was amazing to see lack locally how you know you have global vision but yet you have to localize it locally to make it happen and they truly making that happen. I would just say that that as the center for the digital prophets starts to to further mature and actualize in its programming approach which i i really admire that it's a very academic approach to study the industry to help those sixty members plot where they were in their digital transformation with really clear terms in the people process and technology domains and then to drive some programming in very consultative work in a pass that keeping not only the beneficiary officially of those sixty organizations but truly the beneficiary on the receiving end of their programs on the ground <hes> <hes> to have that consciousness that the beneficiary was actually a step past asked at the n._g._o. But actually the people they're serving was really great so that academic approach to be followed by action was for me getting at this historic challenge of the ngos being held back versus just kind of out there solving symptoms. They're trying to make a systemic and thus scalable approach that a lot of other companies can come in on right and not just not just their members not just the fifty eighty seven members but to take the learnings and the tools and the assessments and all of that and make that broadly availability sector. I think we should be a five million organization. Zapping scale of impact that net hope can have the centers is pretty exponential. I i would add on that as well. I completely agree that the the scale and the impact is vast and it's really exciting. I also think that something unique to net hope and other intermediary like them is that because it's a community because it's a community sitting at the center of different different sectors <hes> it affords us tremendous opportunities to build relationships and to learn with individual organizations <hes> i got to actually <hes> go to uganda earlier earlier this year as a guest of net hope and tour some of the work and see some of the work that was being done in a refugee camps in northern uganda and <unk> aid being delivered by not hope organizations. I got to actually see octaves technology being used on the outskirts of a refugee camp by one of our nonprofit customers and when you take that back into to your organization and you share that and you show the picture of the octa log in page donna <hes> it does something to really communicate the the impact of what we're doing and what it can do <hes> and and again i think working through collaborations and through these relationship based kinds of partnerships is a huge opportunity to do more of that and to feed more of that back into our companies and ultimately invest more in this work tangibly the technology is becoming coming more interoperable and so for the programming that we have in leveraging these assets of big tack or mid sized growing tech or small tech. That's growing toward the needs of the sector in a credible way is really exciting to see. It's funny we <hes> with our network shows we reach over one hundred and thirty countries and <hes> we get feedback from people all all the time and one of the things that so interesting is how the consumer technology is going to remain consistent right. It's going going to be onward and upward and like that. The digital expectation <hes> you know the people who are listening to podcast like however they can do them for example and then just be able to communicate with us in real time you know and send like we did a you know. We did a live episode and we had people from like all these all these countries sharing. Oh hey this is how you know. This stuff has has helped and i think no from the technology standpoint. I think sometimes leaders might forget that the people want technology on the grounds but light if the organization that supporting to bring water whatever it is don't have equivalent technology <hes> or better technology than you're just going to be less operational and really all these organizations need to go through a digital transformation of some kind. Everyone is going through on. Its obviously buzzword word. I'm curious. What do these digital transformation look like for ngos like is they're kind of like a before and after picture here of what's going on on what we've noticed with oricon today. We just had a report that came out yesterday. On connecting dollars to come to outcomes is whether you helping the tiny charities that helped you know often edging in the philippines or the world vision which is a member and also not perfect nets with customer mark is when they start being able to present the outcome of that technology and the impact to the leadership then there's more investment and then you can truly accelerating packed. I think what we've seen through. Our reports is leaders. <hes> you know in nonprofits <hes> assist the value of measuring accompanying packed the problem is they're not equipped. I think we've noticed it was thirty. Two percent another equipped to <hes> to basically drive that suffering as digital transformation and i'm talking italy too small too big. I used to be an executive director. Tiny puff barrier was two million <hes> but you know having a in an accounting system having a ceram was still needed to be able to track and measure so that transparency needed to drive decision making as well oh i mean. Can you imagine if sandhill row here. Just a few streets from us didn't have visibility into the impact that their investor or angel dollars were having on the enterprises that they were helping scale and so the n._g._o. Community now able to articulate through technology with in a transparent way what's happening in their work and what impact is in fact being had is a vital part of that getting the the capacity and the support that they need from from folks like us and frankly it's organizations that have brought us together in a really like radically collaborative way with this this coalition in this group to not assume that from redmond from silicon valley we know what's needed by that beneficiary being served by that ngo on the ground and so two again have that perspective and get this lens that makes makes the solutions to get that water to that place in that you were talking about is done in a credible way but not done from the ivory tower perspective at it should just be easy yeah and that also ties is back to the transparency of how did that happen. How did that water and that program get. Maybe more efficient or maybe more effective and then how is that then communicated back to the funder to within skill that program it's interesting so i was in the in worked for the government for a long time in the military and and i think i don't actually know this for a fact but i'm pretty sure box. It's now <hes> working with u._s. Army so we are the right i thought so but it's one of those things where like you take something like cloud storage like clebration insecurity in all those kind of like important facets. You'll get something like that where it's like if you're an ngo using pen and paper like you have no hope to be able to show show the impact that you're really doing approved the things that you are doing on the ground like you just have no hope you have no opportunity to perfect example and quote of our international rescue committee has a number of office is doing economic development work in the field and they had reims in rooms and buildings full of paper invoices that their funders required they see so in a project that they pursued digitized that that paperwork which again were just invoices to prove to the funder that they were in fact implementing programs and utilizing the money money for the right thing as they digitized that not only was the visibility <hes> faster for what was happening in the in the in that invoicing area to get more funding but the program itself became more efficient efficient between new york and cordova and the other four places that need to communicate so these stories are very real accelerating impact accelerating the ability for the sector to get more support to do more of what it does best and i think out add to that to that you know again i was. I was applauding paper documents for the us army in two thousand and thirteen agree. This isn't one hundred years ago right. Now is essentially very recently and u._s. Army has quite a bit more money than the average ngo and so and it's things like that that i think people kind of just forget you take for example. We've had a bunch of your ceos on our i._t. Visionary show <hes> and how brilliantly smart a lot of these i t. leaders and technologists are in large companies. The average india ngo doesn't have a c._i._o. That is you know leading digital transformation nations someone that actually owns that i'm curious like how do how do we allow or create a situation where if you don't have that type the head count if you don't have those type of leaders on the ground necessarily to do a digital transformation. How do we kind of like approximate that sort of thing or you know like cities having thank. C._i._o.'s is a new thing for example. I mean this is like so obvious now in retrospect but i'm just curious like what are you all seeing on the ground. I would say a couple things on what what we're seeing being. The first is that again looking at intermediaries like net hope other organizations like tech soup that sit at the center of tech and <hes> a nonprofit are doing a lot of work to try and solve that issue to try and gather the insights to try and pilot things with organizations that do have c._i._o.'s house right that can invest in that can share with they know <hes> to benefit others. That's absolutely a vision of what net hope is trying to do and tech soup another one doing that for at a much larger scale they they they have over a million nonprofits around the world that are that are members of tech soup so i think that's one thing i think intermediaries are important. I think investing in intermediaries important to salute basically the centerpiece of of of october philanthropic strategy girvan this something years and what do you mean by intermediaries the way i would describe it as ecosystems that sit at the intersection of of in this case nonprofits in technology so instead of an organization or company making grants one by one to organizations to maybe help them with technology we can make one grant to an organization that has the leverage in the reach and the network to serve in that hopes case fifty seven and tech soups case over a million and have have an outsized impact hopefully on on what we're able to drive to those organization recognizing that i mean digital transformation journey right and it starts in different places for different organizations. Small guys are really just trying to get stable insecure systems and platforms you know and then you move in. It's it's not something you leapfrog. Even though cloud is amazing has great opportunity in the sector <hes> you still have this journey and so how do you help folks in this journey. Nonprofits are still trying to utilize technology -nology that was built for enterprise for profit companies sources. <hes> you know things that were built for the nonprofits themselves or or helping bridge that and then they don't have the capacity even the large nonprofits the underside enterprise nonprofits are not well funded we could talk about maybe the funding issue and yeah overhead issue there <hes> and then the small nonprofits don't have i._t. Staff they have the accidental techie. It's the person who sits closest to the printer is or the social media person is is there technologists so recognizing that investing in these intermediaries that can add scale support organizations is super super important and for us to also go in depth with some of our strategic partners is important as well and showcase. I would just throw in that the that the nonprofit technology enterprise network also about three hundred different technologies are surrounding the many hundreds of thousands of organizations that their content reaches is another intermediary your listeners to check out as well and these are these are they're all very well proven with network tech zubin and ten organizations that have helped the multiply the impact of our programmes a capacity building group in the tech sector dramatically way i would just add on the dimension so making philanthropic investments in these ecosystems is important but it's also like there's a lot we can do within our own companies to to address the issue of nonprofit tech capacity right so all of us donate and discount our technologies for nonprofits in some way <hes> that helps tremendously and this lead just cross some of those barriers of of cost right and justification another. I think probably more important we can help us to get our employees and our in-house expertise not sort of wrapped around these organizations and i was gonna actually turn it to peggy because they do something absolutely amazing in this area and i'll start by. I was on the other side running charity and i can tell you overwhelming it was when people come to see us technology and use that one because my board was brute ticky from the area and i <hes> so what was very appealing for me very sweet ease they intentionally from day one from the moment nitwit was in edison section with gobert a founder it was about building the capacity and it's about helping the sector as a whole so we yes we care about technology and wanna take you to drive chant and help a nonprofit it does sound a price accelerate the mission but how do we build capacity to those orcs and ha- delivered to your asset so when we think of all of you agrees right within over technology with people thinking about knowledge so we spend a lot of effort through swiftly bono and sweet capacity programs in our where we match our employees we's charities charities to basically learn about the technology and we've also pushed that even more to what it's all business functions. We have marketing employees that know about marketing and they can help yep so it goes back to us so what brings us to the table is. I love what you say about enabling capacity. That's really what we spend a lover a way i write. We enabled her employees. I'm pleased to give back yeah. Let's say peg it to your point their mental model wise like you look at the assets of a of a corporation and specifically technology corporation their superpowers typically their platform or technology or their suite of technology and their people but there's also the institutional assets like office space like brand influence. I mean you can imagine a voice exactly right. If if we're able to elevate organizations doing important work that others can jump on board where winning and i would say also that for the mental model of the other asset of the company being your customers and the admins of their technology you can imagine what unleashing that can mean as well so people that are raving fans about are unique technologies where frankly have already put together the four technologies represented in this podcast to have those customers in the edmonds of those teams in our customer base <hes> against against these challenges that are out there that technology can help solve or build capacity is also important so we can't can't forget that asset near like so for example were <hes> michigan small company but but <hes> like we're part of the sales one program like we we from the essentially from the founding of the company did that. I think that there's a lot of companies out there big and small small that want to figure out a way to do something but they're kind of in that like what should i be doing and then if they're a big company and they are maybe doing something they're like like. Are we doing the right stuff. Are we doing the wrong stuff. You know are we kind of swimming in circles. So i'm curious you know from a funding perspective for for the companies that are trying to make sure that they're you know dollars or are tracked that they have impact <hes> that it's like you know authentic authentic to the to the organization to do you know certain things you know if you're wag for example you know you're gonna be working. A lot of of you know <hes> we. We interviewed them talking a lot about what they do and stuff like that. I'm curious like when it comes to organizations that are thinking about <hes> how can they they do more like what what are some best practices there. I'll start by saying. I think you hit it on the head like the it has to be. It has to be so tightly aligned to your business strategy that no one whatever say oh gosh. Why are they doing that or what's the impact of that. Is that really what they should be doing with those sources so if you're at the beginning of the journey the easier in some ways right really look at where your company isn't where it's going what your core assets are. What makes you unique sometimes. It's your technology sometimes. Sometimes it's your employees. Sometimes it's the space work in sometimes it's geography or in like could be any of those things but i think it has to start with that and it has to really be an extension of your company's mission. One of the things like for example bank of america does at be <hes> bank stadium in charlotte. Is that all of their ads around like veteran employees employees right. It's like they could do anything with that ad space but it's all to highlight the military veterans work at the company because they have a really strong you know veteran presence. It's things like that where it's like. I think the smart companies kind of like make one plus one equal three sort of thing where you know to your point if you have a you know if you have physical locations if you have let's say a thousand thousand physical locations if you're whatever like a seven eleven or something like that for example like thinking about how much real estate pardon the pun but like digital real estate that you have <hes> but also physical real estate that you could use those things to your advantage. No that's a great point and i think what aren't jumping off with aaron said is it's so important to start with that focus casse and be focused trying to be everything to everybody is not necessarily a recipe for success. Yes you can have breadth programming and i think we all here on the table. Have breadth programming mang that nonprofits can come get software for microsoft any time but when you do your depth where you're aligning your key assets of your cash your tech your expertise ace your voice you wanna do that in a way that's really focused and can drive significant impact because that's where you start getting benefit back to the company in terms of being in having these great human stories showcasing your technology and big ways you y- focus when you go death and if you could do breadth that's that's also pretty again and i think more and more you're seeing these programs that are that are broad and deep go into areas that that are are mapped. Well not just to capacity of an organization but where it's passion lies is and when those intersect and with headlines you start to see even more energy around these things if they're topics that people are in fact thinking about and talking about we talk a lot about about the stakeholders of the embedded ed social enterprise box dot org being threefold. It's communities. I we serve their win. A through nonprofit enablement first second is that the employees that we're transforming to be involved in these engagements in third is is the company itself in the benefit that it gets but we really do take those three stakeholders and i would just say quickly that the pledge one percent <hes> movement that you'd suggested it is now nine thousand organzation strong and becoming a community of practice more than just a kind of a a fly by thing and there's many of us who helped start that that that movement along time ago that knew that a group of builders that kind of put that where it is needed to teach others so that people can get to this work a lot sooner than profitability or a lot sooner than their fiftieth employ employ for example or the other excuses that at founders make over and over woods also daunting right like i remember having the conversation with chatting stephanie my co-founders about this about like we have literally no money so we can't give that but you know like we're already doing certain things in the community are for us our retrial. We're reaching three million people month and so like there's things that we do have that we could you know put some <hes> capacity or put some organization around be like hell is just be a little bit more thoughtful about how we do it and then you can kind of figure out like one of the things that we did. You know there is a guy who's in the military was kind of like wrongfully convicted and didn't have money to pay for legal fees and <hes> like something like that where it's like. It was a hyper targeted the thing. We knew that we wanted to support this. It was really cool. 'cause and you know we wanna do that like another one. You know we had a friend does this. <hes> special needs camp camp that they go into the santa cruz mountains and they need money to bring you know fly the moms out and the kids out from chicago and it's like that was something like it's in our backyard. They it hang out in the studio. Deuce impact stuff whatever and it's like right there like those things that were like easy wins for us to get to as a super small organization but we had to have the the framework in place to be like we know we want to make a difference and we don't know what opportunities are gonna come our way but we have like something that we can figure out around that so that's the key i think is is that it's the commitment that actually is the most important thing authentic commitment i because you don't know all all the things it's overwhelming this stuff gets really complicated really fast when you talk about donating software and you talk about setting up charitable vehicles and setting aside equity liangyu super complicated located but if you make that commitment as an organization and you embedded and your leadership from the very top speaks to it it sends a signal and get sticky in the organizational culture and comes culture we we saw that at octa i mean founder our co-founders you know took the pledge and boldly sort of <unk> stated that on stage in front of thousands of our customers and employees before it was kind of all figured out but we've built over time you know systematically <hes> and we could have never predicted that we would have found net hope or the center for the digital salad or collaboration with folks. We didn't know at the time but that commitment that signal. Oh is is so powerful. Yeah we talked with freddie said just right over there and we talked about it when he was here in syria. You know it's funny though i it's an important point it's like i think a lot of organizations don't necessarily know that or they might know this from a sales perspective like winds beget wins. We always talk about that. At ah. The mission is like once you have a win. It's like it's a lot easier to evangelize that within the team like hey we actually did something and it's it's like we can do more of something if you all want to do more of something and if you don't then it gets exciting right when the the things that are motivating and inspiring the employees to execute their mission in writing code or selling something or something else but no there's there's an elevated purpose for making that happen or making that task possible so you can imagine if you're a b. to c. App you work with another partner and add around up for good function in the checkout process totally assumed from the beginning of your engineering thinking you could just say we could probably once we start to get customers raise millions of dollars through a simple roundup capability at the shopping cart or like even yesterday our employees most of which are skewing younger <hes> five hundred and fifty of them donated an average average of fifty dollars. We raised you know twenty plus but two thousand backpacks packed them during an all hands meeting around the world so again. It wasn't like we had twenty k. Philanthropic perfect budget sitting around people made that happen in a grassroots way but they were inspired by the activity that was showcased by an employee atlanta who did that in his basement. His family put together pretend backpacks while we did three thousand yesterday around the world and was really kind of <hes> a cultural rally for the company globally on something that again didn't have budget assigned signed at the beginning of the year so that we can't do that was never even something we we entertained if i could add something to you odin series. I think you're expressing the fact that remember. We're all committee like a company's employees. It's a committee of employees nor kissed. Committees are partners customers employees at sometimes i think we had four by trying to lead but just by listening and leading enabling them to do <hes> you know just bringing communities together tell you what they want and they'll make it happen and you talk about that queen queen. I talk about story. You know that wants to read. That's impairing in and it's a it's a rolling effect. When you feel good you want others to feel good and also i was thinking about some of them. If i had known when i started when i joined konate sweet is really like you said you're lying and the study was admission mission and business right also the matrix. I find it very powerful. You know as we look as swing by metrics to align them with the business because it's like you know if you go if i go to quebec back and speak my friends from france. It's a little different but if i'm going to start using the local language you'll pay attention to me so i think as i reflect on what we talking about on this table it's about aligning mission and the strategy but also aligning matrix and enabling others because a lot of the work is empower them just to jump off the beginning inning journey and the focus in in some of the models that we hear and you'll talk to later is is how do you also create the social business model to support the broader nonprofit community itself so <hes> and this rethinking that we did a couple of years ago is that we found okay. Nonprofits are using technology. That's not made for them. They don't have the capacity and they need to be treated like world class customers that like they are and philanthropy can only go so far we love philanthropy but can only go so far so wh- what we did is that's were tech for social impact was actually formed to think through that business model or you can bring your your donations your capacity building programs along with right-sized and and appropriate discounting licensing models for nonprofits solutions built and made for nonprofits and how do you rally more services and capacity acidy building from your our corporate partners to deliver that so that's where we brought together and and it's also a social business model way where the the funding once it gets above a contribution margin that money's ring-fence to be reinvested into those solutions reinvested into our philanthropy so it's it's sustainable. It's long term and it's scalable. Well <hes> in a two years. It's been really really successful. Our dream is that this model actually gets into the whole company and becomes a part of what every company business business tries to do not just isolated in a nonprofit segment but for now we've seen tremendous growth and the impact that that we can have in in our partners can have through a model like this and maybe you guys can speak to you for sure i very intentionally introduced myself as a as a director of an embedded social enterprise because we very much you are that and so to operate under the chief operating officer and they go to market part of the company that has influence over product and influence over customer satisfaction in the metrics does that make customer successful is is very much design and then when when nonprofits are able to make a very heavily discounted investment in what we do as our core competency we're going to redirect tactic percentage of what they contribute to us back into these capacity building programs call it a virtuous growing virtuous circle investment and so just two out of the gate realize that nonprofits should in fact be considered customers that you learn from and that you are ready to serve and support is a very easy decision to make early especially when it's a five million organization multi trillion dollar segment in the world make no mistake like commercial purpose and community purpose or community benefit or mission are being woven and more closely together than ever before and that new generation way of embedding social impact into a business model instead of an afterthought like an h._r. Department or philanthropy department or something down the hall that never really talks to the business. You're really doing a disservice to scale of the impact we can have yeah. I think that the scale piece is really critical and this is where like why this this roundtable is technology leader philanthropy and not the other thing and not that not that non technology organizations nations can't do this stuff too but at the end of the day like technology allows the stuff to scale and to create a virtuous flywheel like you're talking about and sample we had two hundred nonprofits on profits working with box five years ago we have almost nine thousand now speak to scale any founder in the world that just realizes that she should be conscious of the needs of the nonprofit sector can and see a very healthy break even or better customer base emerge and then we've gone from about ninety thousand two hundred thousand nonprofit yeah that scale so so that's what i hope creating solutions and standards and templates and common data models that you can put out for the open you can open source these things things that really help build a community and sector using technology and much more rapid pace jeans technology competes with with all of us right. We compete against actually really do elevate community above those competitive pressures and influences every chance we get. That's it's not just unique to ngop. He's at the nonprofits us all of our stuff all right so for us to make it work better exactly to keep talking about the scale piece one of the things that <hes> we interviewed for podcast future cities murdy kosher who was involved in habitat for humanity for long time for the things that was really interesting that i'd never thought of it was very much like a pre technology solution right like get a bunch of amateurs to build houses for other people right but when the problem is hey and africa the exact number i think it was like we could take a bill like ninety six thousand dollars a year or something like that but the worldnet need for houses is like like a million dollars a month or a million houses a month and has like india alone needs more houses every day than habitat could create an year and it's like those type of problems were like the opposite of a flywheel where it's each individual thing is a totally new unique thing not something thank scalable and i think that it's really like a shift a paradigm shift of thinking about how we can support nonprofits going for because at the end of the day someone still needs the house <unk> so that has to get built either way but perhaps there's a more creative way of figuring all of those things out than <hes> and another thing that he talked about was that if habitat came to your community it should have been a wakeup for the people making the houses that we they even needed to do it like that was the thing more about engaging the community and building the house be like hey maybe we need to take some steps and that kind of thing was kind of ended up getting a little loss for him but i'm just curious areas from that kinda standpoint with with scale and the power of technology. What does this look like going forward. What do the next five and ten years look like so. I think think it we spoke about the power of intermediaries earlier and i think these that that the era of innovation challenge and community development and showcase of innovative have solutions that address needs is starting to become more vogue and we're we're really appreciative of that. You see tech centered nonprofits start with technology at their core. That's delivering their program. Graham not just enabling technology that surrounds the processes but actually starting with technology solution one degree comes to mind like a yelp for social services right so they don't have to hire the seventy five hundred hundred social workers to map people to solutions when a digital solution can in fact do in a some of that at scale but when you see fast forward dot org or the full circle fund tech accelerator accelerator <unk> see challenge that happens in the vatican city and december which we can't wait to be a part of your starting to harness the innovations of thousands of of innovative business business builders and sailors that then get introduced to the world that actually understands what's caused seventy million people to be displaced on the planet and then solutions get especially ashley inspiring and then corporations can come in and really have a nice seat at the table with some funding and some voice in some reach and the customer inclusion again these these innovation models and challenges are are very easy for companies to kind of play into and provide mentorship and some capital and some ideas and some of their some of their i._p. That i think will help lead us in the next five or ten years to some of the solutions that at scale get at these sustainable development goals that by twenty thirty are still really steep to to meet in a multi trillion dollar problem so innovation i would would add to that like this is not doom and gloom like humanity is better off right now than we've ever been technology solving millions of problems that we didn't know that we had like i just i think would super exciting to think about like this is still whatever year i mean the combined years that the company's at this table have been around is still probably under fifty right or somewhere around there right so you're looking at like even just in you know years of being around. Were not even close to like what the impact of this stuff could be makes me think i was having a conversation with a nonprofit leader that we work very closely with in san francisco does a lot out of work on poverty and homelessness and you know she was saying look. Technology has changed the way. I get to work his way order. My food has changed the way i shop for groceries and learn all all these other things like why can't we get seven thousand people off the streets at night in san francisco total half to believe we can and it was a very hopeful positive you know thought around the power of technology and i think that another way that we as leaders in the tech sector can start to get these problems in a different ways that the reason then we have you know uber in cart and all these great technologies that have changed our lives that somebody saw problem in their lives and figured out a solution that they wish they had and then they went and built it and they raise the you know the capital and they and they gathered the team and they and they built that and so the more we can have the people who are experiencing the problems in our community in in positions where they can generate the solutions and actually get the resources to go build them. Which is why i think something like fast forward as brian mentioned is it an amazing nonprofit tech accelerator ninety percent of their entrepreneurs are solving problems. They've personally experienced in their lives like that's a great example. We need more of that in our companies to which speaks seeks to how we hire and how we bring in talent but i think that's a really critical piece of this. I'm gonna give you a different angle which is a nonprofit and decided to close it because i felt like unfortunate enough of its sector this too many of us duplication duplication so if i think if i think looking for five or ten years i want to challenge us to consolidate instead of like fighting for funding and building our own brand and then as founders and i don't want to talk about money expertise is we wanted to spend more resources uses and we doing that right now right but accelerate that <hes> to enable people are on the ground because often they already have solutions and we ten then let us take vendors take partners over. We define yourself. We sometimes tend to come and just go over but we've been really trying hard at a recall nets to com and enable from the bottom up but acting as a consortium of leaders. There's nobody to really increase capacity where where it's needed. It's very hard when you're charity to get money for technology by the way after i to fundraise for software it is very hard. I think that is an area area that overhead myth that that jane had touched on. I think it it it bears worthy of a few minutes of discussion here because you look at at most corporate entities getting to spend ten or fifteen percent of their income where the revenue on innovation and technology to support their ability to scale and win and succeed in the nonprofit sector. It's very common to see one percent or perhaps perhaps less devoted to innovation now. I don't think that technology is a save all by any stretch but if two two point if that nonprofit doesn't understand the solution but they can't execute it could sometimes help with that. Sometimes we feel like we can do it all and we can't again. Make that very clear but we could possibly with technology. Tell the story of that solution that works and convene people to innovate on that scale but it's table stakes now. I think that that's part of the thing that i think like needs to be part of. The broader. Narrative is like if if you don't have a c._r._m. And her you know a nonprofit one hundred percent year not serving your <hes> constituents in the right way while you it. There's pretty much there's you could not show me one single way like if you don't have some type of cloud storage like number one. Your aren't secure number two like a people's personal data n. P. is probably at risk like these. Things are like table stakes now and there's a disconnect there because <hes> it's seen as overhead funders traditionally don't fund overhead <hes> restrict their dollars to program only. There's this myth that if you spend a dollar on technology you are not spending a dollar on saving that child's life right so but yet it's critical to the operations the efficiency and the impact that you're gonna drive and we've studied recently and over over eighty percent of donors and individual triggers believe that technology is is a nonstop you know it's a it's a nonstarter. You have to have it. Non-negotiable is very quickly understand yeah yeah yeah. So how do we change that cycle and be willing to fund technology as not as overhead but part of what you have to do in your programs yeah and then how do you start using once you have the technology her you start leveraging that data to make strategic decisions by because when we look at the impact measurement report you i know people believe in it again our leader seventy percent of leaders believe in it but when he comes to a personalizing it it's not happening right. Everything's silos too many systems and echoes the scale issue if yeah having there's no not really a lot of common data standards in the sector so how do we get common data standards so we get common transparency and consistency on that people can build off and bring greater transparency to their donors and funders. There's no doubt like everything is accelerating like the demand to accelerate is has never been higher and to collaborate inside and outside a nonprofit is no different from that from corporation with its customer base. They actually have to customers one helping on the funding side and one helping that they're helping on the other side and so it's that acceleration has the risk of leaving more nonprofits behind and i honestly think that corporate donors and other donors that influence corporate donors owner's family foundations and so on should more and more think about investing in innovation and technology is a viable way of making philanthropic investments. This is also about trust. I ultimately right. I think that there there needs to be more trust between donors and the nonprofits that they're giving to and <hes> it doesn't mean don't do your research thirteen. Don't do your homework but it means that. If you know an organization you trust their work then you need to do everything you can as a funder and as a partner to empower them to make their own decisions about what's best because they know now. It seems like i'm visas doing that. I mean not to kind of bring up what maybe a religious topic here back in the end. It's just like he is making donations that are less restricted than the traditional philanthropists ahead of him have and maybe again some would say more money than <hes> than you need even worry about it because the numbers are so big and but he is it does appear even if i mean again people could could question his methods and so on from time to time but he is more trusting of the organizations that he's investing in early in philanthropy career than than i've seen in some okay so that that i think does speak to it and if the nonprofit organization is going to turn some of that less restricted dollars toward innovation to actually repeat and scale what they do against the problems they solve. There's there's some hope in that. There's also a myth. I think so you need to trust and then you need to allow them to fail. Yes jerry di what that running using yeah exactly because we can't assume i mean as businesses as we fell right. We've got to learn fast over. We don't know nonprofits to fail safe. I think part of that fast when we invest is trusted my fell but we're gonna lose them to fail fast so then they can you know vate water not only did his his business model kind of starts to plastic a little bit but also the way that people supported charity water invented the birth on on the yet but now they have this notion of sustaining subscriber to their mission and so on so they're back on track and they're growing again and and kudos to scott and sean anthony and the whole team there that's innovation they failed and now they've come back yeah. That's why i think we could do about three more hours on this but we gotta get outta here. Any final thoughts go around the horn. It's important to do more. We're good together and it's good to be in a studio with redwood trees outside the window here. It's nice. I know right yeah thanks. He and this has been fantastic really appreciate the time. I appreciate all these getting together with my colleagues and you know i think i think a parting thought is yes. We all compete but this is where we come together and try to get together and in that it's fun. It's good work and <hes> it makes a difference. I think we need to of the talk almost fight so we obviously have to deliver in our own entities and and and drive success there but i think there's such an thirty two event scale more on what we globally so i feel energized in learning from each other which is the best way to drive chant asks jane to be my mentor once and she said we have to be each each. Other's mentors and i thought that was was pretty neat. I'll never forget that she said that that day and to get to be in this work with gurus who have been at this for decades when when we've been out for a while it's just it's an honor and it's cool to learn from from our peers. I would just end by saying that for those listening. Who are maybe inspired or thinking about things in a new way. I i would say just start. Don't think too much anymore to start and build from there to do some good day so much mission daily. All of our podcasts are created with love by our team at michigan dot org we own and operate a network of podcasts and a brand story studio designed to accelerate learning our clients include companies like salesforce their customer times five twenty and katara who worked with us because we produce results to learn more and get our case studies checkout mission dot org slash studios if you're tired of media news that promotes fear uncertainty and doubt if you want an antidote to all that chaos you're at the right place subscribe grab here into our daily newsletter admission dot org each morning. You'll get a newsletter that will help you. Start your morning in your day off right <music> <music>.