E36: Vicky Gosling
Hello welcome to this week's unofficial partner. I'm Richard Gillis. This week we went to the OAS headquarters in new cavendish street to meet Vicky Guzzling. OB Chief Executive of GB snows bull. He had a highly successful twenty one year career in the royal airforce rising to the rank of group captain and serving in the Iraq and if Afghanistan conflicts which he was awarded the NBA. In two thousand and four. She left the forces to become chief. Executive of the INVICTUS Games. The International National Multi Sport event created by Prince Harry the Juku. Sussex for injured servicemen and women and fast and full maced to be ambitious just unbelievable impossible in vitro plumpy. Tease Wilmington debates is pretty impressive. The guy that's basically being blown up in two thousand eleven in a game I want to run it invictus games and then win a bronze medal at the Paralympics in two thousand sixteen and into intimate sprint Felli. Incredible and people would suggest that maybe be that was not possible beforehand if you want to find out more about Vicky. She recently did a great presentation. The marketing societies bravest event in London. About what her career in the armed services taught her and how that can be applied to business. You can find that video at the Mocking Society's website this is thirty. Six podcast cost Danica thirty six weeks if enjoyed them. Please writers on Itunes. It really helps us and If you've got ideas for future guests and subjects getting touch and if you are a potential partner with the pollen podcasts. We'd love to hear from me in get in touch with me or SEAN AT UNOFFICIAL PARTNER DOT COM for now here is Vicky Gosling Vicki thanks very much for your time today and Mike here we are again at team. Gb the headquarters and headquarters of British. No sports now. We're GonNa talk about Snow Sports. Obviously because your job but I want to start with. So you've got this heck of a back story that I just want people to know about who don't already twenty one years in the Rif ending group. Captain we should say Vicky Vicky Gosling Obgyn. We know if you'd like to not say Kay with me you'll second though be on the poker. Yeah Yeah I got an MBA to today. They will they were that now with no talking you can wear it was dame heather Ra- bats. She's good today. So is that one up Stephanie. One out of a question mark around on the old is unlikely to be an issue for me. So twenty one years in the Orient Take us back then. Why did you join the area? And it's probably Blais. I'd always had an interest in flying anyway but Having gone through university did languages it just felt like a natural progression for me. I I liked discipline. Alight family fail that And it was. It was really interesting when I first started looking at it it at Leeds University it was very much about the family fast. And on the role. Whichever will you came upon second and that I found that really appealing ailing and of course at that stage? I mean we're talking. Join back in one thousand nine hundred four now. I did a lot of sport and it was a platform for doing sport as well as well as traveling and of course it happened languages so it was. It was a combination. I'm considered all three services but burying my my interest in flying as well. The Air Force made more sense. It's to me. And where were you brought up on the world. So you've got and you went to lead university school in whereas it yes I I did. School run the world and then just went to lease university and then joined ideas. Patio brought over six England. which is Spanish and French and then the night? Join Straight after that. So take us through your quick tool for your career. Because you've been some places. I mean. I deployed all over the world Israeli but I would say that Thi defining moments for me are probably my deployment to the Gulf in two thousand and three and then my and then setting up what became the combined services adapted Sports Association. And that was you know having taken all the cash that we certainly did a decade of two thousand and nine in in two thousand eleven. I was this heavily court to see some friends and I was looking at the balcony and there were twelve ts. He's playing sitting volleyball at the time. Which is pretty interesting sight to see but age range between about eighteen and thirty two and it was that they were? Ah Loving Life for more than one. I'd seen them in Celje Hospital and I happen to be a commodore of a war sportscenter. Just honore between Henley and modeling so I asked the consultative I could set up a war sports day therefore guys and he said yes so we did and having done Vance. What's which is really successful way then went on to settle on a per wheelchair tennis day at RAF ultimate goal is play tennis the Air Force Royal Engineers and to build the rumps and we did tennis day and then it became very much known as Gerry for for adaptive sports and we set up the combined services up to sports resort getting the military? Keta these injured men and women largely men at the time and then in twenty thirteen are set at my desk are Benson and I always used to deploy anti Afghanistan Afghanistan as the detention center advisor Secretary State interesting role but When actually I got the call for the Ministry Defense Stacey Jason would like me to his royal highness had just come back from the war games and wanted to effectively put on these games that would would be be mission bang an international sporting competition for wounded injured and sick servicemen and women and demonstrating the power of a spot? The recovery was at the same time raising the military pray foul creating more sort of general public awareness for for the military and because of my background of helping create this combined sit ups for became this sort of the person so I went in. Is the military project. Executive Military Project Lead for that seconded led by the ministry defense into way my very much getting round we picked up fourteen nations based on the re-met that these that had been injured that were very much from the the most recent conflicts Afghanistan and Iraq. So we wanted to find the nations that had fought alongside US said amount for that we picked was actually. You know we've trained together. We fought together in that country together. We found we decided online sports very much using the the BPA later to get vice on which sports. We could use my sports because we'd had a successful Olympics in twenty twelve we will pick part makes sense. Say We So we festively. You went to see Orange at the time and and the Olympic Park and we bought so Keith Mills and the previous board from the Olympic Games around the table onset about putting the Games on my very much fixing long getting the nations to come so I flew around all the nations actually trying to movers and shakers that could Identify and locate their wounded population. And get them to form a team because we didn't really know what was happening. And then I became engaged in trying to raise money money through bringing in sponsorships that check your landrover and then getting the BBC and immediate behind it. Then explain what this thing was was going to be then. He ended up with four hundred competitors. Obviously a five day period of competition in London and September twenty fourteen and subsequently that was my sort sorta springboard then became the chief executive of the INVICTUS Games 2016. Take to Orlando say when that was that was the next steps and that was at that point that I took took a career break from the military so as already agreed captain and and actually having been offered the role I can really turn it down. Say That's exactly documented and then subsequently them became the Strategic Advisor Ministry of Defense he could delegation came in hand. So what there's there's a lot of questions that power that in terms of of just from a sports role in that sort of area and I guess I'm thinking about the psychology of it if you are a soldier or a serviceman who's been traumatically injured wealth and what's sports sport. What does it do? How does it help? Well I mean I think naturally you'll find that military personnel on Naturally Competitive Competitive Anyway and Camaraderie is K- it's all about team Walkman in the military as an individual you're fairly insignificant so But being able to bring people together into team environments whether it's because you come into the team environment unyielding team sport or whether you're coming into the team environment being individual sports it enabled them to put a year in particular with the invaders games enables them to put a uniform back on because think about it in the UK delegation. We've just picked the team going to the Hague and so they actively get kitted out in the UK teams allegation. They've all joined the military tree because they're fairly soft less in terms of selfless commitments and You know they they they enjoy that mission orientated. -tated feeling so within but this games you know very much about coming together as a team performing to your best demonstrating in a your commitments. What is that you taking on on the representing your country? And there's always some pride that gays with that say I mean they're not they don't tend to be profit orientated. People say sport plays really really well as well as a rail tour within the military. Because that's where we test boundaries. An awful lot of adventure training with military personnel and throw them into that team environment. So when we going through in my case officer training at Cromwell you do an awful lot of team sport exercise together whether it's being basted around some horrific cross country Sira in obstacle courses vile or whatever is making some really in China. There's lots of really fun things as row. How lots of fun? Things coming through the military or say any playing NAPA gang skiing. When I was fortunate I have see you did Winter Sport and I did tennis as well so pretty much? I was never at work but I mean I. It's a key. It is definitely a key part of life in the military being fit you know you have compulsory. PT Needy circuits every day at lunch time to do that. But it's it is a real part of it and that's why why in the Army Navy game in rugby such a big deal because it's one place that people go away whether they're serving or whether they've retired in terms of those service personnel who have been injured and are then out of the army or is that where what happens there. They need the support network. Work for them. You know it's really. It's really important that that sport in that walk very much I would say comes from friends and family and that will be previous in a previous comrades from the military or is that just extortion but friends and family a key to recovery for men and women Because they fall all map network for me for that that sort of nast underneath them as I say and in what supports in place for the in the ministry defense is definitely getting better at this fixing face. Just set up a veteran sort of office and Johnny Massa which is looking at precisely these these types of things but the invictus games assessment given the opportunity to to cater for those people who have been wounded or injured inservice and. Then make sure they don't fall off the radar was I think unfortunately previously. It's been easy to lose. People was now there's more at this something thing to bring them back. It's at least a good fina stake in the sand able to hold onto. What did you invictus? Games is interesting because and for lots of reasons but it was. It's a thing appeared and now it's part of the landscape relatively quickly. I'm wondering what you we learned about marketing. In that whole I think what island which have been able to bring across this Nice Ball? And you know he's been fundamental for May may is that. Actually when I say what did I learn from invictus first and foremost to be ambitious and believe in the impossible you know if you. DC trip lumpy T- swimming pretty impressive of you. See Guy that's basically being Glenn Happen. Two thousand eleven in a go on to run an invictus games and then win the bronze medal at the Paralympics in two thousand sixteen and in tune to meet sprint. Fairly incredible and people would suggest maybe that was not possible beforehand. I think that it's all about the unconquered sprayer. You face something that pays to be unachievable. At first glance with an inconsiderate and the likelihood of achieving is far greater. I think highland that you have to inspire while than require followership in order to to get the nation behind us we needed to use these individuals that have the story to tell the stories that we could inspire the nation and enrolled and requiring them to get behind this. It was more case of upset. You being inspired by the narrative breath so the narrow saves always K.. I think that you know the power of Friends and family and getting getting the support network a man and partnerships and then in terms of having a strong vision. I I'm such a believer but I guess being in the military those being in terms of making sure the the one of the things is drilled rolled into very early on his enjoyment the mission and the vision is very clear in a you understand the difference between the tea. But what's the vision the mission how you GonNa Gather. There is always the way so I think setting out fishing very early on and something. I've transferred across the hair. And then all say you know the hard brand. It was really important that we got the brand right And that it was you were able to articulate it. I should have saved from dubiousness boy. Sort of the one of my big things was to rebrand. I rebranded within nine months of coming in and merged with Paris may sports because obviously it was quite placed. My my heart say And it was really important in order if you really want to have an impact. Aligning people to that vision. Save you make the brand clean and has has brandon go right values depending it. It's much easier to get behind. And he's an also ensuring that its purpose driven. I think having a purpose driven brand in such as Invictus or now Nice bore you know we wanna get become five-nation by twenty thirty and by Paralympic and Olympic Sports. Absolutely fundamentally in a so. It's clear to everybody but anyway will get there and the anyway we we managed to get invictus is ensuring everybody understands what it is we're trying to achieve and how now we're GonNa get that and say with invictus. We manage to do that and taking that brand to America was quite interesting because it obviously being built here in in London but then we have to translate overseas and explain what this actually was to a different culture coach to a different audience and then fill the stadiums in the. How do we do that? We did that by ensuring that we partnered with the right people so the right stakeholders involved volved bought. Disneyland is a key partner on the. You know we're trying to do something. Similar with TVs May sports and get the right stakeholder engagement so you want you want partners who have the same values. He's underpinning them and that way you can strength will come in in numbers you know something about always sees something. I'm blonde is the actually I always refer to it like a boxing match. Takes if you have one single matched you can snap it into but if you have a bundle. It's tough to break so you need to surround yourself with with the same if you want to achieve something in terms of make sure that the brand is out there he keeps his integrity gets guests known about is make sure that your surrounding yourself with the same purpose driven value sharing organizations and then you can tell that message far and wide and I think by bringing Jagellone Giovanelli. It was quite savvy move because they they activate rarely well So I learned a lot about partnering with the right in. Some partners may not be able to bring cash to the table but if they're really get activating sing and they have the same values on purpose driven than you can get your brand name about quite quickly. I mean I think the fact that the brand is where it is globally now in just five years speaks volumes but can we do the same fatigue baseball. I'm pretty sure that if we get we've got the right. It's all about the team when are putting the right team team in place. Whether that's Rachel Fraser. WHO's come into our comes or whether it's the performance director Don Hunt to get the results you know we you you need to have tangible outputs that people can see and we're now in the past twelve months we've had twelve world championships? We've had twenty four Kapadia who've had one hundred twenty seven international top towns. These results have not happened ever before in Britain. So we're now getting results that will help with our brand recognition and say what I learned from invictus how to way we can mock it. This rarely really. Wow if we get the right partners and we've create synergy and we tell the message on channel everything three in a engaged digital media and get the audience behind this is a good example with. How can we do that? Would you be sports. Is We've got a potential according to Nielsen Global Audience. Favor billion is. How do we tap into that now by using the right media partnerships Dane things like this? You know telling telling the message but also inspiring the nation that we're about to take Britain to heights way beyond expectation in in something you know. We'll get you know ambitious to become five-nation by twenty thirty people would say that's why aren't basis given how much now we didn't have big mountain ranges. Just pick them. Because at the moment your last Olympics it was Nineteenth in the middle table is five so five medals one gold four. Four Brahms Luciano. Would the gold medalist what is taught how can you quantify that target fifth. How many medals look what what has to happen? That's of course Olympic Paralympic Effectively what you have to do is ensure that we're delivering a across the the spectrum of disciplines that we have so we now I don't have but we bought to new programs in if I've got three programs and really so we've got cross boarder and we now have Charlotte banks. He's fourth in the world and heat contender. We've she's in cross-border. We've obviously got our Alpine team gang from strength to strength with day riding in a while with him. You go try to guess Alex Tell. Hr pays a and then you look across at Michael's we've got a new mega program and ends. We've got an incredible team within their already. Seven strong pious. We just transferred a youngster called Matteo across from France and he's super scaled so And then we've got to a new ski jumper wash not you. But she's kind of been under the radar youngster. Who is super talented? She did not say if we if we start really delivering and of course you look at the Nordic and Andrea Young Andrew mccray Jimmy. They're all starting to deliver live now. So it's a case of AK if we fire it up and all of these different squads than we have a really good chance of getting to that becoming five-nation now. Are we going to do if Beijing what we haven't set Beijing as our target we set at twenty twenty thirty to give us more of a fighting chance and it all comes down to the strength. Indepth what we've got under the Bonnet and that certainly increasing g to the fact that we've now put what it takes to win in place across six different colors whether whether that's Putting the athletes fast whether that's ensuring that the performance side of it with aging for awhile say World Class catching structure and don hunts been pivotal Tolan. That and making sure that we've got world class catches at in every discipline. So we've got game from Switzerland teaching our cross-border we got bet on teaching our OMEGAS. We've got all your enhance on our region guys teaching our our Nordic program and these are the best of the best. I'm not the same comes to the resource that that we as we. We won't well class facilities for prey into the are athletes they used to operating level and then of course our innovation team is to die for in terms of what what we've literally put together inside that innovation team is second second to none ways first class so that's an extremely exciting place. We're looking at areas. We have never look at before. Wax is every dynamics. Remove the innovation team equipment before marginal gains creasing the marginal gains as for us and then showing that we are quick to the best of our ability and we all get it in Britain. You know we have some of the best brush brains. We've got Manchester University. We've got imperial imperial college with partnering with them to work on these projects. And it's cops. He can't say too much but CPR exciting stuff. I was interviewed Luciano and I really liked her for. It's worth but she it. Was the talent identification question with her which I found really interesting. She was an athlete. And then you know the the outcome being. She's flying down headfirst on a piece of metal high speed. How do you? What's the sort of participation base? I guess is the question. And how do you go and identify young people who could potentially help you on this solicit this is. This is a big area that I'm really fixing an on. Now say from my perspective Ak you think about sports that we have we really blast. We're GONNA Nation Fuller Debretts with Gregg out there. He actually are in Pussy fakest. And if you think about what we've achieved what what we can achieve the big ass side of life. We seem to be really good at the guy we seem to be ready. Get this neighbouring scales and the airy scales and so and then on an in the Alpine line life you look at how they writings achieve. What he's achieved when he he really learn on on the dry sleigh in the snow dame's we we want the kids that if you can? It's really difficult. If you come from people we say this is really a lately. Sports really have to look at the elite side of life. She's not quite Mike trae. Because how do you create hunger in paradise if you have it all on your doorstep the need ain't necessarily crave it on so I would say in my counterparts in across poor in Europe. Probably in not like me saying this but they have it on the doorstep they have play parks or snow. Also right we don't we do have stadiums and we do have choices we the date and all that so so creating that wants and desires a good thing I think and then we're looking now. We've been quite innovative and looking at areas of skateboard apart. How can we give kids? How can we find balance within kids? Let's look at the skateboarding and skateboard. Let's encourage kids to skateboard auden. Let's find their balance. We're doing which will be. We're really looking at now is more like a B. The pipe dream type of campaign. Find your balance where we're looking to put on these skateboarding skateboarding camps freestyle school with calling it. We can give the kids to do it and probably more from deprived areas. Give kids an opportunity not to do it. And then identify the balance within. I'm the same with gymnastics. Kids he do you. You just have to look at Billy Morgan and his background. You know he was an acrobat really and he's always to Jake's he's an acrobat term right and he. He didn't have the discipline to commit to that but actually was brilliant being the freedom having the freedom and the fresh air and the the mountain to do his thing so we have A. We have a great opportunity. I think to tap into these Brits with with Gretna tap into talent that we may not have been looking at before which will then hatefully ensure that we've got an inclusive diverse pathway through. And get these these kids into the spore which will benefit everybody a participation. I'm and the other thing is when you look at cycling. How doing spy these kids to do? Well if you can make it look doc tangibly possible so you can tell stories save you can inspire the nation who about invictus with someone like billy story and billy hasn't come from in this academy type background. He's really fought for ended. Ready while asa that and you've got other kids out there that demographic I it is really good for proven you can do this. It doesn't matter what your background Israeli and if we can inspire at the top and share that metals are possible. Then then it's way more likely to have ground swell just like with cycling so we want to find unique ways of being able to make it accessible to the kids and and then we can hopefully identify the talent pool. But we're also doing some having a look at. How do we share knowledge? And how do we do joint talent. Id with disciplines searches. Pop Skeleton Bobsleigh and and of course Caja we ask jumping. You'll find that there's a real similar Larisa take in terms of foster fibers in the in the legs. Or what is it that we need. The they'll be away with that we can find something else at the performance directors. This is now looking as well as how to weigh. Do these talent. ID programs for each of the disciplines including nordictrack including ski jumping and and then transferring being from one to another you know is it. And didn't av had recently m What the the gymnast is rarely came to snowboard? He's just announced it. I mean he's a world-class Gymnast Name Escapes Me. I should know his name combat but also Not that would be a great opportunity and also I was with Billy Monje yesterday Max whitlock host thinking. He's been talking about. He likes snowboarding. Anybody Yeah Yeah but But also with Bill Maher the you know the young racing car driver for choosing tragic crash ambition to be formula. WOMBAT way we had dinner yesterday and he is really came to get into skiing well. Of course his Mehta skills on his fake cast and his drive Dr and his ability to maneuver Benz Etcetera. All of that Bates said this is a lot of skills and a lot of talent that we can probably suck up and gay gay Ford with Exciting Times. How just to sort of push us now? What was the more so the commercial end of the whole thing? You'll be job. What's your take on the commercial value of your of the of of what you're doing? What's that what's the message to potential partners? I mean I think the key each each of you marching in a look where British cycling and British rang woz and we we are now. I mean I think we would clap by at times unseen N.. As probably one of the most exciting sporting successes just coming horizon across the Olympic and prolific disciplines and and I look at when Teams Guy Jumped onto the bandwagon. A we are team sky but probably better in terms of potential and where and the direction of travel avalon the all the different squads that we haven't draw on it can cater for anyone whether it's your looking at endurance and cross country or were you looking at sleek side of Alpine. PINAL in the risky edgy side of began. We've got such a fantastic now as we're about to take Britain to heights way beyond expectation. We're going to break three barriers and nobody expects it. It's a fabulous sport to watch. It's exciting to watch and I knew that we were doing it with. We've got seychelle. Responsibility is well aware because without all winters we actually. We might be able to do this. So we're looking at how can we offset carbon footprint because we're very aware that we fly everywhere we gay so we're looking at what partnerships we can create to ensure that we are catering to to to be responsible towards what's the environment as well but I think in terms of commercial if you to be associated with the success story to be a catalyst of this success story would be such an exciting prospect for for any organization to be on side because we can probably scratch a lot of chess in terms of getting messaging out that and plus class visually kind of can't be and what's what's the sort of media footprint that because obviously you know sports are being told that they need to go direct to their consumers as as a fan base over there and you know yes. Broadcast Platform is is part the picture but increasingly. That's not the whole picture. How can you do that? Is that something that you can do from here or would you is that a b o a eighteen. Gb New. I mean I think we've got a -tunities through looking at different media partnerships you've got we've got one on the table right now. That looks really exciting. I think our ditch. which is we have to really fake in on that the same any channels that we can talk t- so whether your spectator or your parent or whether you are yoga? Bunny that in a I mean a lot of our sport relies on mindfulness. While whether you know your aw a kid. That's inspired to do this this. We've got such a wide audience and of course that audience varies depending on which discipline talking about. So I think the appetite is that how do we push it out. I think the having these types of conversations are really important in telling the story and on getting the fact that we're producing. The results is helpful because it gives you credible narrative and and I think when people see what we're actually doing bank and to improve always into capture the audience. It's exciting say people like that narrative individual stories of all the athletes are good as well So it's now facing on the the digital reach for us any television every every type of in a lens we can put onto what we're up to the the more the battery so it's a lot about sharing the contents and telling the stories and of course I mean we have five hundred thirty two events a year so it's not like we have a lack of content and we have to pay all of them and in terms of the I guess the question about coach. You've mentioned team cycling a few times. He's not he's not a model that you admire and you won't do. You took my marginal gains and and is that something that your looking clean to replicate okay. So I think I think where we but what's really interesting is. Is that how they inspired. The Nation the results in two thousand twelve and then they increase participation. So that model I think is a really really good model. I think by Macho gains in terms of what they did with. The bike was brilliant. Say What we want stews oversee create our own model but look across all of the sports and take the best bits of all of them. So I wouldn't say there are in. That's it for us now. I think looking at the different ways that sports operate. And how do you create create that success story. I mean it could be from anything from NAT Baltar looking at football. We constantly learning whether it's through marketing memberships games or or gain looking at performances. And what does it take to win. And we're lucky that we've got a really decent coaching team in place now so I would dominate. You know the four of that and then sharples in a Ryan behind him an across the spectrum are kate are really good so I think we just and of course. We're looking at everything. Everything from nutrition to from wellbeing to innate lifestyle everything that we're learning from an that comes from a number of sports not chest chest cycling. I think if you if you asked me to consider our governing body I always say to the team. Look please look look at it like this national governing body and and the brand that way look more like the NFL because not and say well. If you wanted me to talk about a model I probably be looking more along. These feigns clearly ambitious. Well Yeah I mean what do you mean by that in terms of the. NFL is does that mean tons of scale. Always there's something scale okay. I'm struck by the in in your over your career and where you are now and where we look we're going into the future culture and teamwork that stuff that you talked about right the beginning. What's it like coming out of one culture military coach into a sort of more corporate arena? What do what other challenges in? What surprised you in terms of that transition? I think there's probably more similarities because of the factum gang into sporting environment. I've dabbled in and that was probably as too extreme for me because it was so different different in the layering and just the way people do business in a sporting environment. People are particularly in a not not for profit environment. which is what we currently are? N You tend to find that you are very very well orientated. To the to the sport until the mission into the athlete I preach so it is more about teamwork too. It's not too difficult. It's not too dissimilar. I think you'll find that people within the sporting arena ten to have in a selfless commitment in time. When you look at the values that underpin these that are in the military and these that are in sports tend to be striving towards in a winning towards an output towards mission and they tend to be they tend to be team orientated because everybody learns really quickly that in without the white cage without the right nutrition without the right in the right physio or the right admin support going to get far say it's very team orientated? Sattar which is exactly like that of the military and of of course you expect in the military we call it mission command everybody wells sleeves up and get stuck in at some points and it's the same in sport you know they think there's anybody ready within our organization that doesn't graph from top to bottom and fill in the gap several very versatile and agile in doing what we need to do. So it's not been too difficult. If I'm honest I think where it's probably being quite tough. Minded eight thing is how to say the word but it it is in terms of you know. We have a funding gap. That's of an expensive sport right and everybody Nice. How much by not so we get ready grateful for that but there is there is a funding gap because in an ideal world in our wouldn't put hands in their pocket and we would be able to uh in a resource innovation for where it needs to be and at the same time we would ensure that actually there was efficient money in the system to get where we need to go to give the athletes the best training preparation on the best of what we can. We have a gap at the main. What I probably find more difficult is is raising money in terms of managing the resources and coming from a defense background and we will never flash? We always had to is write so come from that from one to another but now raising the money's ace has been challenging. Actually what we're now starting to see is that people are starting to understand where we're heading and so taking people on that exciting journeys becoming more appealing and it's so let's take time to get the brand new and to get you know where we're heading in the ambition out there so the more that is out there in the more people say the results may look under the Bonnet and they see the impact that it's having in getting more kids into the snow dame's more more kids having the opportunity to do this sport than ever before and by ensuring that it is affordable and we are creating pathways will be absent K.. Okay well listen. Good luck with all thanking. We'll be following your progress very closely. Thanks very much for your time. Really appreciate my pleasure Yeah.