NLU Podcast, Episode 173: Zac Blair and Rob Collins on Sweetens Cove, and the building of The Buck Club
Feeder right club today. That's better than most. About in is better than most. Expecting thing. Guys welcome back to the podcast. We're gonna get to our conversation here shortly with Zach Blair and the Gulf course architect for Sweden's cove and what else will be the buck club Mr. rob Collins, we wanted to catch up with them to see what the status of the club is. A lot of people have a lot of questions about that, and we also spend a lot of time talking about Sweden's cove. Of course, a lot has been written about Sweden's cove over the last several years, but it is a pretty remarkable story about how this golf course came to be and having just left playing it all weekend. I was even more impressed the second time around in its course that a lot of people have had a lot of good things to say about over the last several years, but it wasn't really until this past trip that are really, really would say that I now get it and kind of see the genius behind it. So as best as we can, we try to talk to rob about how it came together and what is inspirations were the challenges that come within how they're going to replicate that at the buck club in Utah and y, y, Zack has employed rob to help them with the project. And help design it. So we left again, feeling pretty pretty inspired. If you're talking to these guys and hearing all they had to say this weekend and seeing seeing the actual layout on the plans for the buck clubs. So hope there's a lot of questions that are out there about this golf course that does not fully exist yet except on paper. So before we get going, I wanna make sure you guys check out Calloway's new golf lives. Home-course it's original short films and they set out to profile three unique golf locations around the country based on their stories, the communities and the characters three stops are at Edgefield, which z. laid back golf course outside Portland, they got to par three courses. They're twelve and twenty holes and distillery bar as the pro shop. And then there's Langston just about fifteen minutes from the White House, and it's known for its triumphant role in the desegregation of public golf. And lastly is wild horse golf club. It's widely considered one of the public courses in the country, and it was built by farmers in a community in Gothenburg, Nebraska. So the the cultures across the series. A remote. The cultures across the series are remarkably diverse, and the courses are United by the passion of the players who call them home a lot like the golf courses that we're gonna talk about on this podcast with Zach and rob. So visit Callaway golf dot com. Slash Gulf lives to watch each episode of golf lives. Home course. Now, let's get to the podcast ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the noling up podcast. Solly here Toronto's here. We wanted to try to catch these two gentlemen this past weekend at Sweden's cove at the ringer, we weren't able make it happen, but we're joined by the the co, architects of the buck clubs, Zach, Blair and rob Collins by saying that right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So we wanna talk a bit about, obviously we all went to the ringer at Sweden's coves Kozak I want you to. I kind of take us to y. We were all meeting at in Tennessee. This past weekend, what you in robber working on and why? Sweden's cove as played a role in this. For me, kind of I had this idea few months back a of trying to get a bunch of people that have been interested in the project wanted to learn more about it or meet other people that have that have liked the whole idea behind TV see and try and get them in one place to just kind of it was more honestly, like a networking event to to meet some people that are interested in kind of share some ideas. And you know, hopefully those guys know a couple people that are interested where they can kind of tell them what went down, what they learned. Yeah. I mean, we chose Sweden's cove. It was the perfect spot. You know, obviously rob tat awesome job out there really showcases kind of ideas and they're designed for us. So it was a perfect place to hold that. Everybody had fun those. Great. Imagine how many times you've told the story, but. A lot of people listening to this podcast, I'm sure have been to Sweden's co, but I'm sure there's also a lot that have never been there. So once you to take us there as to what it is, what it was before you turned into Sweden's cove and I can't imagine how many times you've told that story, but we love to hear it. Sure. Give you the Reader's Digest version, and if you wanna get needing additional details, I can definitely billion, but. So tat I were hired in two thousand eleven rebuild the old to quasi valley golf and country club, and there's still the Alaria blue nine of their that the day, our day opening day in two thousand fourteen Ari tech nerve. One of my partners go without stuck little signed down the road road signed, and that's kind of Armagh too. But anyway, chatting started in eleven. We finished in twelve the guys who financed the construction. Basically the siding that they didn't really wanna be with it. And so they ended up leaving it to me after a little bit of a because in period. I took it over with a group of partners in two thousand fourteen and. We got it open as far as what it was like beforehand. It was dead flat land. Quasi valley course just have, you know, really country black off course, and. Tron called twins, like Disneyland. And I mean, that's basically think that's like the best like one word description of kind of just all hold out of thin air and the middle of this random play. Just, you know, a lot of fun shots. Of different looking. Things are all my favorite stuff and architecture kind of blended up and down into one course that tweeden dove. And we've been open now almost exactly four years than the ringer was the perfect warrior aniversary worth unbelievable. We can't rob. How did you find it in the first place? I, you know, it's like the I, I call it a big adult sandbox, it's kind of the most fun. You can have your golfer, but how did you find it? How did you get set up at Sukhois valley in the first place? I really was desperate to get back into architecture of a victim of financial crisis in two thousand eight. Partner, Chet, Teague guide, discuss going into business before and the financial crisis kind of forced our hand, and we were like, screw it, let's do it. And that we went into business and. We were really looking for verse course, and I would do anything I could stand the business and I really wanted to get volved with the project of twenty, which is a nine course Gill on did actually went to wanting to a lot about it, and I got in touch with this guy who was kinda running of things is a kind of a local golfing legend in Ted, a new good. He was heavily involved with the with the swan project and to help you out hitting the ball with that. But I just heard about this new project out of the valley guys that don't squash concrete or thinking about doing something there, but you touch them and one thing led to another. Could you imagine that Sweden's cove would have turned into what it is today? It's it's unbelievable. I mean, it's. You know, just a little bit of a surreal feeling of in because I live the whole story of in the ups and downs, and there's been a lot of downs, and there's been a lot of certainty for the last six, seven years group instruction than the course you know, getting left. And then there was a gap in time where we had to take it over and you know, we went broke and two thousand fourteen right after we opened in the back. There's people from all over the country in the world there with Bazak's and all you guys last week is just it's kind of hard to to believe. I mean, after everything that we went through to get to that point, it does does blow my mind. But I will say that, you know, I was so intent on getting back into architecture and and they can name for kings island. You know. Analogy, I had my mind. I've never really said this is probably some kind of noxious that I wanted to give a Crump Ian effort to, you know, this is going to be like my valley. You know, I was going to tie out there but had to to get one in the ground. And now there's no way was gonna stop or quit, and. You know, we've somehow someway made it happen, and I knew it was good and a new that did ever saw a lot of people people would really like it, but there was so much certainty so much financial uncertainty. I didn't know if it ever would to the light of day that that's really the. The amazing thing is that we make our. What was your your initial kind of reaction or did it? How did it differ from how people described it? The first time he played ably back in March or April of this year? Yeah. So I had, you know, heard a lot about it. I had actually talked to rob and tat kind of over Twitter and seeing all the posts in a her. Andy, talk about her. Do you guys say how much you liked it? So you know, I obviously had high expectations going in, and you know when you go there, it's kind of undescribable. How much fun it is. How many options. There are on each hold the green complexes and you know all the short grass everywhere. It's. I mean, it's it's just so much fun. It's so much different than what you see at really any other courses go play that it's kind of. I mean, it's just amazing. It's really cool. You know, I had already decided to bring rob and tat on to help with the the bucket club before I went and saw Sweden's in literally like two holes in once I got out there, I was like, yeah, the right decision. So it was pretty cool will broadly speaking, we, you're on the podcast last year. We talked in some pretty good detail about the book club, but kinda wanna hear from you of those didn't maybe didn't hear that. What the book club is how you dreamed it up and kind of what maybe what the progress has been over the last year since we last discussed on the podcast. Yeah. So I mean, the whole. Idea behind the places to just bring kind of like a pure golf club to Utah. We don't really have anything that caters just strictly to golf, and we don't really have any place kind of like Sweden's or like, you know, Cal club or a whisper rocker where the kind of Gulf geeks can go nerd out and have fun. And I thought it'd be a perfect place just because there are a lot of people in Utah and around the area that appreciate that stuff. So I thought it'd be cool to do that. You know, it's been kind of a project for the last, you know, six years, I would say, and it's a picked up a lot of momentum over the last couple years and especially lately and yeah, just basically looking for some investors, some people to help out, but everyone's kind of catching the buzz and kinda ride the wave right now. So it's been really cool to to see the progress, and hopefully we can get something going here shortly for those that haven't seen either. Place. Sweden's cove sits pretty much the bottom of valley in the buck club is very mountainous terrain. So very different terrains. But rob, I wanna know what you thought of what would become Sweden's the first time you kind of Saul that land how that went? Well, I came called the, hey, Robert, but go out there and check this place down. We went out there were walking around and there was this old yet down there with a bunch of broken down equipment, and you know, we were just looking at the dead flat piece of ground with the open concrete ditch running down the middle of seven, eight. And I've thought, what in the hell are you doing with your life? You lose her. This, this is not. I mean, this is worst. You gotta start. There's a problem and it was, you know, Tatton nice said have said this. I mean, it was be worse golf course I've ever saying, and that's not hyperbolic stayed investors, but it was, and but we got the job in the great thing about it was is it was a blank slate and I don't know that. I mean we could not. We got so lucky with our client read Thomas. I mean, he just, he believed in and he just was like, you know, he let us go out there and do that. I mean, there's a lot of guys who are more accomplished, you know, have a much bigger resume than us for, you know, for a project that wouldn't get turned loose like that. So we were really, really lucky to have Emily as in intern, it's loose and we have some speed. Stored narrowly, talented people helping, and you know the thing, you know, Sweden came out of that, but it wasn't what. Tub beginning that and going from that kind of location to start with to a place like the buck club or they opposite ends of the spectrum. Oh, totally. I mean, you look at the land of the bug bug and you're just raking out at the possibilities. I mean, the the, the whole that we call the Megara day. And I mean the first time we were out there last year at the end of October. I mean, it's obvious back would say the same thing that is it just got the huge kicker on the right and there's like this perfect clip where you can build a bunker. You have to do anything in of it's just tailor made for this all world Rene. I mean, you idiot to not build a build a good Redan there. So thrilling to be involved with this project, the place that had this much potential that it is got so much potential. Just got goosebumps thinking about it. I guess question for each of you, rob. What have you learned from Zach or what are you most impressed with. Bazak's coming from a professional golf background. And then conversely, Zach, what have you learned from rob as this process has gone along? Well, somebody asked me a question the other day, kind of how I work and I'll try your question drawn out about saying that back and I of his oftentimes feels like we're kind of hearing brain on this because we're basically minding the same well of information of the same pool of information. We liked the same stuff where you know coming from the same place like tackled throw out and I did every single time. I'm like, wow, that's a phenomenal idea. Let's do it. And so we're kind of we're in the same Ed space, and I have learned. From sack. Listen to him. Talk about how you know different ways to challenge. You know, the tour player in in the in the better player in it kinda solidified my belief that one thing, I don't think a lot of modern forces get right is that the dynamic of how playability versus penalty works? And I have all four, very, very playable course tweeden's cove is a as you guys know. Very, very playable off course, but there you can get a check. I mean, you get in the wrong position and I think that's a really important dynamic that you have to maintain. I mean, that's where the thrill of golf comes into the thrill of challenging that hazard her challenging contour and being successful. And if you're not successful paying the price. So he goes in in the way he looks. Things in his belief that you know, you need to have that dynamic, his strengthen. You know that that believe in me, and I think that that's a place for exact really excelled because he could hit you. The rest of can't hit for maybe early and you know he thinks about things and understand how you can challenge. You know, the really elite player, but at the same time, give other people at the chance and think that's going to be a really cool dynamic at the book club. Zack going to you, what what have you learned from rob through this process? All I would say first off. You know, originally when I had this idea, you know the first couple years I had kind of said, hey, I'm going to do this thing on my own. We're not gonna hire an architect, you know, we don't. We don't need one, you know, I can do this myself and I feel like I could have done it myself. But after talking to rob, you know, via Twitter, like that's literally how this started. You know, I was asking him ideas and you know, asking him what he thought and you know, just random like chats on Twitter, like every couple of weeks. And and then hearing about Sweden's cove from people that you know, I trusted their opinions. I was like, dude, we need to get. We need to get these guys out here and at least see what they think meet them. And I would say within like thirty minutes of needing those guys and talking to rob and getting on the on the site walking around, I was like, okay, like. Screw my of like doing it by myself. Like this guy is like the guy I want to bring in and he mentioned it, you know, we, we think very, we think very similarly, we have a lot of ideas that have saying, and, and like he said, when I say something and he's like, man, that's a good idea. He does the exact same thing like every time he we talk and we talk about this every single day. So it's pretty cool to have somebody like that. We have the same design philosophies about making courses playable and you know, making fun enough for the average golfer, but hard enough for players that are good. And I mean, that's that's the thing that Utah for sure is definitely missing. It's missing in a lot more places than Utah, but we have nothing even on the same level as something like Sweden's cove. And if we can build something like that, eighteen holes or how. However, what we're whatever we're gonna do out at TV see, like it's gonna be a home run, and people are going to travel from all over the world to come play it like they do Sweden. So I'm very proud like to have rob and tat on board, and it's been really cool working within. And I mean, you know, rob talked about how he may. You know how Sweden's was kind of his version of pine valley with, you know, compared to Crump and how it was kind of his brainchild and he, he literally died on property working on it, trying to make that happen. And you know, that's kind of what we've done with TV see, it's something that we do everyday talk about all the time and you know, we've got so much blood sweat and tears into this thing in this whole design process that I think it's gonna really blow people away with, you know, when it's finished when they see it. Back on some back with saying right there in, you know, that is. I mentioned, this is act when I was in Utah. I was fortunate, it's Weeden code. We, I got a protest in like July two thousand ten, and there was kind of this relationship with the client that didn't formalize for like eight months. So I had like eight months to dream about it. And each hole tweeden's with your like four or five interational in like the first versions of the whole adult were like really good. You know, in hindsight for weren't anywhere near as good as what turned out in that sort of baking process that it went through really made help make wings what it is. It gave me time. It gave cat nighttime to kind of formulate full on plan. And in the end result would was much better in in, you know, I'm sure that which has in some respects, the TV was, you know, already built, and we were doing this podcast from the porch of the clubhouse, but the time that it's taken to to go through things and each time actors not an idea, it's it's infinitesimally better. You know, some here just stink remotely to keep doing better, better better. And now we're finally at a place where I, I really think we have a plan that mature in his kinda gone through the process and gone through the necessary revisions. I mean, it's like. In writing a book over guard him, and you know, you don't go with your updrafts. I mean, this is the bully fake concept and. Money. I mean, it will gonna kill it. I mean, I'm not joking. I said, I walked away from this weekend. Just feel in inspired, like I think Zack when we talked last fall. I mean you had ideas for whole. You had sketches. You knew kind of what you wanted to do, but is it fair to say like you didn't have this concept that currently exists in? If I'm right in, if I'm right in saying all eighteen holes in even some bonus holes are laid out and like set in stone for what you guys are going to do, is that right? Yeah, yeah, we have like a, you know, a championship style routing that you can go play, eighteen holes. We also have you know some some fun holes that kind of you can play if you want you can. You can kind of go do whatever you want. It's idea that we have right now with this place is is pretty outrageous. You know, we got like twenty two green complexes, a ton of fairway dig putting surfaces and you know, you can go play it. Like I said, like normal eighteen hole golf course. Or, you know, if it's not busy, go out there and kind of treat it like a big putting green and just go play to whatever holy want. And that's one cool thing that they offer out Sweden's cove and it's just something you don't see that often. And it's something that I think takes a lot of a lot of thought and a lot of, you know, it takes a lot of thought to pull something like that off. Like rob was saying. You know, this thing has gone through the ringer and just, you know, iterating after ration- changed gotten better and kinda matured to where it is now and it. You know, it's at the point now where you know if we can get some funding, you know, we're gonna have one of the best golf courses in the world which will be fun. As far as once you get that phoning locked up when you do get that funding lock to hub, what do you envision the membership model or whether it'd be semi private or private or kind of English Scottish style club setup? Describe that for us. Yeah, you know, the one thing that I've always wanted, I've always wanted a great national and international number show. We wanted at a price point that is extremely do little for people all around the world all around the country to come in and show this place off to their friends. You know, bring groups out, kind of like they do Sweden's cove and have this course, you know, ready to play for for a bunch of people and just so everyone can come in and have fun. So I guess to answer your question, you know, looking for big national membership and hopefully in a hopefully people will be down for that and come out and support and join the club and bring a bunch of their friends and go have fun. So you will need a member invited out to play any unaccompanied rates or anything that's going to kind of follow the sandhills model or or Terry d. Mato or anything like that. Yeah, you know the sandhills model. I'm a little familiar with it. Not not so much. I'm not as familiar with Terry modal, but you know, we definitely want to offer. You know an option for people to come play it, and that's how you get a good national membership, I think, is by allowing some sort of access for people to get out there and play it because I think it's gonna be type of place where if you can go out and play it or if you get the chance to go and play it, you're definitely gonna leave being like, okay, how do I make this word like? This is something that I need to have work. So yeah, definitely think you'll, you'll have the ability to see it play it and hopefully wanna join right after playing the devil's advocate role here in limited take the role of online hater which I'm sure there are at least some on Twitter that kinda very skeptical about about this coming together, a lot of people, some of the reaction that I get is like a what you wear in their, what had is that it's the buck club, where's that? Well, it's gonna be in Utah because you have an entire merchandise line every piece of sweat. You could imagine. Exists for this golf course that does not yet exist. What is the purpose? I guess, of all of the extracurricular stuff that has come with this project or with the book club gear and all of the all of the hype? What is what? Is that? What? What are you doing that for and what's that doing for the buck club? Well, for me, you know, I kinda just went in saying like, okay, I have this idea. I really think it's gonna work, but I don't have the money to pull something like this off by myself. How can I, you know, spread the word and get this idea out there for somebody that you know, hopefully falls in love with it. And my idea was like, let's like make this brand and push this stuff out there. Get people talking about it, give people wearing it, get people, loving this idea, and you know, that's kind of just what I did. I started off with hats and you know the first couple, I guess, or I. Year two when when I was selling this stuff, I think there were a lot more haters a lot more people that were very skeptical of this idea like, oh my God, like who would wear a shirt or a hat from a course that doesn't exist. But I would say like now, now that ideas pretty laughable to think at, you know, if people coming up to us all the time being like, where can I buy this hat? Where can I buy the shirt? You know how, how do I get in on this? Tell me more about it and it's been kind of this guerilla marketing effort. Just getting the word out there and kind of casting this huge net out in the golfing world. Just hopefully somebody bites catches on, falls in love with it and wants to be a part of it Zac. What's the status of the land that you have out in Utah right now? Do you have it give it purchase option on it? How's that work? Yeah, working on it right now. One of the partners came out to the ringer. Had a great time and kind of, I think it was a real eye opening experience for him to kind of really fully realize like, wow, this isn't just like some kids idea with a couple of friends from Utah. You know, he saw sixty plus people from around the world come out and support this event for a golf course that doesn't exist and. Hundreds of people who have, you know who were on a waiting list. I mean, it was an unbelievable respond. Yeah. So. So I think we're gonna get in some serious conversations in the next few days with the landowners and hopefully we can lock something up. And Mike, we said, you're still looking for people to come help out, jump on board and you know, I think we have a real unique opportunity offering something that not too many places can offer a, you know, getting in kind of on the ground level and being involved in a process of building joining a club that really has a chance to be one of the more special projects in the last, you know, twenty to thirty years of golf and Robbie touch on this a little bit. And Zach, you're next on this because you've done a basically shitload of travel around the world to learn from a lot of different places. But Robin, we talked some about what your inspirations were for Sweden's cove kind of some of those courses. But is there anything else you're drawing inspiration for in the building of the buck club that you've seen. That that can I share of, you know, mutual amenity for national place. In the old course. I mean, there's nothing Zach. What agree that there's a whole lot of the course in whole lot of national, none of baked into the buck club. One of the things that they will be really cool about how that all shake out in the field. You know. That contest. I kind of thing. Then you may not look at something and go, oh, that's like, you know, the whole the old course or that's like, you know, number three national. There's there's going to be like little bits and pieces of it kind of expressed in a different and unique way. It's mainly taking underlying lessons from those those types of places in in a pine then to the amazing property that we've identified and all this time coming up with this plant on ANZAC wear. What else have you seen that just kind of like has really sat with you really resonated with you or anything. Maybe you've seen the last year that is changed what you thought you might do with the book club? You know, for me. It's just I've had the opportunity in been lucky enough to travel play the best golf courses around the world. And my idea kind of from the get-go was to go to these places and see what makes them great. See what makes these holes grade or see what makes these clubs the way they are in just kind of cherry pick ideas in in philosophies from each place and throw them all into one huge pile and just make this this amazing club. And as far as the golf course, I would say, you know our trip down to Australia, you know, going over to Scotland one more time and just seeing how amazing like short grasses has really been pumped into TV see over the last couple of months of just like, you know, kind of taken some bunkers out around the greens and in. You know, making it more short dress, just giving people more options in some different play ability that they won't see necessarily too many places in the states. I think that's kind of one thing that will be definite tone setter in something that sets it apart from other clubs, and it's gonna be really cool to see how shakes out Zack on that on that subject from an agronomy perspective, what kind of grass do you have out in Utah. And can you get it as nippy and his firm as you need to to play like you want it to? Yeah, I think a big thing for me in raw and you know, some other people that are involved is definitely like play ability of the golf course. You know, you have all these ideas and, and you want him to play a certain way. And in order to do that, you know, we're not blessed with, you know, being on being on some like sand dunes, like in San hills or on the the coast of somewhere with some real sandy property. We're gonna have to, you know, spend some money and and bring in some sand into sand cap, the place more and and making it making sure we can get it firm and fast because that's kind of an underlying. Principle that needs to happen in order for the course to play well, because we want we want it to play firm and fast. And as far as the grass goes, I think we're going to have to do some testing and see what works. But as far as I'm concerned, you know, there are places in Utah that you can get really firm and fast, and I'm excited to see kind of what route we go with that. And I think people will be pretty happy when they see it finished having spent no four or five full days at Sweden's. What's your favorite whole out there for me, you know, five is pretty ridiculous. I think that's one of the five and seven. I would say are two of the best short par fours in the entire world. Like describe him for us. Five cow, you know five. How long has five rob, like three like like two eighty three from the tip to ninety. I'm like that like what? The way we were playing, we played it a lot this weekend from like kinda fun playing for Mike to forty to fifty seventy five and all these long we played it. Weekend. So it's under three hundred, big fairway. But like you know, you're always going for the green. It seems like, and there's one big giant, you know, not giant. There's one bunker right in the middle of the green basically that the green rats around it and the greens built-up, you know, ten feet, probably eight to ten feet falls off in all directions and the internal contours on the green that kind of let you, you know, allow you to play balls to the right side of the green that will feed around the bunker kind of these to these back left pins. You know, it's pretty. It's a pretty brilliant whole. It's like so easy until you screw up. And then it's just like disasters irking. There. Like we, we, we put a couple of pins kind of laughed this week over this bunker that were so nasty. Like, I think a couple of people died in the bunker. There've been so many good ojection videos showing up on Witter. I was long a couple of Peter Smith and Tim Hart June. That's amazing injection ever. Yeah. I mean, it's just such a cool whole, and like I said, it's just like it's so easy. It's like, you know, the greens, the Green's pretty big, how many square feet is that like eight or not, you know, like eight thousand square feet probably. Like that. I mean, a lot of lot of room to hit your ball, but the second you miss, it's just like the second you miss on that whole you. You kind of have to risk making like a double bogey if you wanna make apar-, if that makes sense. And that's, that's one. That's one thing that I've kind of told like rob in this whole design process. Like that's the type of stuff you want. You want options and you want holes to be score -able. But when somebody screws up and gets aggressive in Nissen wrong spot or your tries to hit a miracle shot, if they don't pull it off, you know, you kinda wanna punched in the face and that that's kind of a whole like that. And then seven is another whole probably like three thirty drivable little, teeny green. It's kind of like I would say got has some Pinehurst number two in it like a like a bowl turned over falls off. On all sides. And I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen like so many people get jetted as I saw. Personally, I that whole like haunts my dreams. I. I don't think I, I figured I'd probably play that whole fifty or sixty times now I don't think I've ever figured out how to play it correctly. I've gone. I've gone seventy yards left that gone down the the, the Jason fairway on the right side. I've I've hit an eight iron off the tee, hit driver over the green. It's like I been searching and searching and searching and there's just there's like, no, there's no recipe for it. You just gotta sack up and hit two good shots. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly the perfect way to describe that. You could hit nine. Petit hit driver, you know, whatever you do. You just have to kind of like say, okay, I'm gonna hit it in the middle or in the middle front or the middle back wherever the pin is and just try and make a putt because that whole anytime the pin is not in the center of the grain, anytime it's around the sides, the edges. If you try and take it on and you miss you, you know you you, you're staring like double or triple in the face. You can just hit it back and forth all day. But if you went into that whole saying like, okay, I'm gonna hit driver down the right and have a seventy are shot or sixty ARD shot. And I'm just gonna hit it to the middle of the grain. I would say you'd make par like ninety five to ninety nine percent of the time if you hit a decent shot, if you. Yeah, yeah. But that whole is so tempting to go for the pin. You know you have such a short shot doesn't look as intimidating as it is. It really is the second. You go forward miss. You just kind of get a ejected. That's perfect of. That's what you want in golf though, you know, and that's what we wanna do at TB see is and that whole that whole is surrounded the poll way short grass around the entire whole. There's no greenside bunkering there is the, you know, there is the big bunkers short left like in the fairway, but that whole you just are presented with so many options. And you know, you can drive the green and make eagle or you can, you know, try and drive the green and make a seven. So it's pretty cool. I was shocked this weekend, how many people, but four-club. Browned competition, and I was shocked at hunting people scored better during the four club competition than they did with a full bag. It was just like taking, you know, making them do a certain thing and commit in committing to it instead of instead of trying to decipher how to play it and then not being committed to shot and of solid you. You were blown away at how well you played with the foreclosure. Might just be a foreclosure player. It works so well, it Sweden's. I mean, it is kind of like I mean, at one point I had to decide between hitting driver into a par five or a nine iron with a club. Like. Head to punch a driver and like try to use the slope to kill it into the into the Bank and executed that one that more joy than I ever would have experienced if I'd hit like this six earned that are probably needed to. So one thing you guys introduced this weekend to for our competition. So for the ringer sixty, people are playing in this event, and we did like all kinds of different formats Stableford, you know, four club challenge team event, but I've never seen this where you introduced to different pins in the Stableford points were different. If you went for the colored flags, it was more points than the easy pins and for a golf course already presents just a million options. I was overwhelmed with the option three different times. The pin the front pin on one as this is the hardest pin I've ever seen, and I ended up getting goaded into going for it all three times that how did that process come together coming up with that format. For me, you know, I went in thinking like Sweden's has these very unique green complexes that there's a lot of really easy tens like in bowls. And then there's a lot of pins that are on totally flat parts of the green, but are like surrounded by death. And I was like, this this course would present so well with multiple pins out there. 'cause we were only there for two days and we played golf, basically sun up till sundown both days, but at a truly great golf course and a place like Sweden's cove, you have to keep playing it over and over to really see different things. Every time you play it, you learn new things or see different stuff. So I thought it'd be a cool way to kind of show the course off even better than it shows off with one ten. And I think people really, really like loved that. Format it was really pool. And I mean, that's, that's another thing TV see. I think we should do that like a couple times a week, have multiple pins out there. The greens are so big idea behind him his to allow so much variety that it's pretty fun to go do something like that. It was really cool going around with people who had never played the course before in like a number four. The front pin on Saturday was I think it was like a hundred yards between three yards hundred between the flag fly. Then he was like eighty three. And then the back ones like one seventy, something like that and of rob. What's I mean? What was it? Like? I guess having you know, sixty people or so people come in from pretty much everywhere to play this golf course after all you guys have been through and could you've ever really pictured pictured Sweden's cove becoming what it has become that was the biggest real, pretty much shitting grin on the whole weekend. I mean back that there were people there that having the best time enjoying the golf course and the way that you know, that tended to be joy with unbelievable thrill for me in, you know, the games attack panther bike came up with where we're so clever and so much fun. I mean, I've been, I've played golf course tons of time than Patrick plated, like thousand times. And like I was talking to Patrick. I mean, we, we were seeing shots and departs in different things that we've never experienced before because we were like playing from one pin. Right from one t to pin that we've never seen that pin that was one that front Lebanon. I've never seen that before in, you know, I shot the worst round probably jot their maybe maybe ever in the stable format because I was being aggressive on every single one. I just I just getting addicted on every single all in the more I gotta check the more. I was like, gotta go for it because I'm dope more out of it. I gotta get my point. You know, that was like a really fun dynamic. I just the whole thing was the most one I've ever had off. I just can't thank enough and all you guys and everybody who came together. It was. It was so fun. I mean, I think the quote of the weekend for me was somebody said, what? What happened? What's the disaster plan? If something happens to go Twitter, you know, like a catastrophic event like. Pretty much everybody was to was going to be on that was it was just amazing heaven, everybody out there just it was incredible, rob when you're designing a whole, like like number four, like the green out there. Number four. At any point where you did anybody pressure you to soften it or tell you that you were absolutely insane. And then and and and be has not. Have you brought that mentality? Anything that you learned from that into the buck club where you now you're like, all right. People told me I was insane, and then I built it. And now everybody's like, oh, this, this whole awesome. You kind of bring that confidence. It's almost like an irrational confidence to be clear. You are insane, but like the right, just the right amount. No, absolutely. I mean, I totally agree with with y'all. There's definitely touch vanity up there out of Lawrence have the English rider had the best line ever. The first time he saw. He's like, what he hell? Rob, I've seen the Himalayas grain, but never on the Gulf Coast. If so, you know, I will totally concede that this before that I had, you know, several sleepless nights during construction in particular when we were building number three hours like os or we've, we've gone overboard. You know, it's. You know, we were trying to touch the line, but not job passed, and you have to give a ton of credit attend my partner in the finish work. He did it. Absolutely amazing job benching those grains though that those, you know so that they were, they maintained their playability like all of our. All of our inability is are really subtle. So you know a lot of the the contours outside the grain kind of on the edges of the greater big transitions. But once you're in the right spot, you know you're going to be okay, and you can go from one part of the grain to the neck and most of the time stay on a few to hit a good shot. You'll be rewarded. So it maintains its playability because of in large part because it has killed. But also because there was a ton of attention to detail made just in the regular shaping process and the construction process to make sure that we didn't come untethered and just just blow to way into the third. I mean, we had to keep it grounded and then the fundamentals of good architecture that we were definitely trying to push the envelope. And you know, there was a couple of times I was a little nervous. I mean, I was a little nervous on four. Gus, do the guy that shaped the the whole, the sixth grade he had built in you, and I were like, really on the same page at that point and. And we was just a bunch of dirt out there and we kind of painted the outline of the grain kind of knew where it was going to go out at some basic ideas and he's like rob saying, just go fucking crazy here. Okay, good. Go for it man. And in in that, that's what came out, you know in, and that's what you have to do with like really talented people like us and and, and other people, you know, you have to get them to buy into the vision in it. You have to trust them and understood. He no knows long as they're working in in a box that part of the overall vision that you won't. You just let those guys go in ninety. They're still working in that. Drawing from the same well information that you're gone from, you know, you're ninety nine percent of the time. You're gonna get a great result and it's more fun for goods to, you know, because you've got read them and they can have fun. And if there's something that's not right, I mean, you know, you change it like number four print than I thought that the back of the grain during construction with tooth aveer in there weren't enough in a Larry then in cusses like rob come on streets like twenty thousand square feet. And I'm like, no, man. We got to mellow it out in a couple of spots. And those are like the little changes the little details that you make, you know everything was like ninety nine percent. Perfect. We just needed to like we could just touch and we did, and then tat came in and like this Herby grain and now clay. Like one of the coolest grains I've ever say it's similar to a native American serpent now nding areo ground than any. Any golf course foreseen compare it more to that than a golf course. It's awesome. It's like my favorite all in the world. Never. Number four. Your favorite? Tron. I, yeah. I mean, I love five, but, but for totally here because I love hearing people say their favorite hole and building a lot of times, like one of my favorite things, you know, people always say different home, and I think that's really cool. I think it's a different hole every time I've played it. I mean, for some reason I'd love to especially that bottom bottom bullpen. There onto five is always incredible fun, but eight when specially when you put the pin right there in the middle of the beer, it's there that one's absolute blast like, and that's, that's what's cool at one about two pins at once we did is like that fourth green face like five greens. In one. I mean, it's you can make twenty different golf holes out of one Gulf own for a place that's only nine holes. I think along that along with all the cross country, which we haven't really even talked about my favorite holes. One of the cross country don't get into the. And that's just kind of what would that makes this place just this, like what you're saying this huge sandbox is is you know, you need the very ability when you have a nine really take it to the next level and that's what you guys done. But if we're sitting here it's it's October twenty second twenty eighteen. I hope like forty years. In the annals, somebody will uncover this podcast and hear this about the building of the buck club, but you're gonna answer it. Now, what is a realistic expectation for shovels going in the ground at the buck club date wise hurry might think win. Snow melts in two thousand nineteen. Really. Yeah. I mean, we've got a lot of momentum right now. A couple of the partners of the land or lot more on board. I think after seeing what's been going on the last little while coming out to the ringer and just, you know, a lot of a lot of people getting just kind of offered their word just said that they want it to happen and that they'll be willing to kind of sack up and do what they need to do. So we've had a a lot of positive behind this thing, so we're ready, get it rolling Zach, how do you balance your golf career with that timeline or just with with the buck love in general, how especially may lose may I next year shovels in the ground? You've got you gotta that's kinda you're on the web toured primarily next year. That's gonna your big time of the year. How do you, how do you square those two things? Yeah, just got to play better. I guess I can take more time to get this thing done at the end of the day. You know something like this is bigger than some some. Spiga than golf, almost, you know, is kind of a chance to build something that not a lot of people get to do. You know, there's a lot of great golfers in the world. There's probably fewer really unbelievable places at least in America. So it's a, it's a cool opportunity for sure. What on the financial front, how much do you need? How close are you, what? What else do you need on the monetary front to really push this thing pushes through one, you know, we definitely need to when need to lock this thing up with the with the partners at the land. See what we can do there, which I think we're on the right track and they're they're few different options. We either need somebody super get to come in and fall in love with the project and and wanna do something like this, or we need kind of a lot of people to step up and get involved founding members and stuff like that. But we've had, we've had both. Sides of that kind of reach out and show interest. So now we sleep people to step up. Last thing once you once you plug, we'll what you got going on the online auction here, what's up for bid and what? What all that is going towards? Yeah. So we got this online auction going on. We got some rounds. It's really good clubs around the world. I got some pretty unique one of a kind pieces of artwork and some some that were specially made for the event. You know some irons that are custom for anybody who wins them. But all of that stuff is going to kinda the planning to build and the things that we need to kind of get in place as far as like, you know, rob tab. Did this master plan kind of for free or did it before they got paid, you know, which isn't, you know, masterplans aren't cheap, stuff like that for. You know that I think you need to be able to show people serious investors and stuff like that. So that stuff's going to pay rob and tad future site visits, bringing people out and just kind of planning development to make this thing actually happened. Last question would what hole for each of you guys would hold? Are you most excited about? It's on the current current plan. I mean, for me, it's it sounds crazy. Literally every single old. I'm not. No, not letting you hook that one hole one hole. I'm pretty excited to see. Number seven, to be honest. It's this big Cape style whole. The green kind of hangs out over the edge of this cliff kind of three sides of the green falloff way down this mountain. It's like three ninety, but you can drive it kinda everything that lands in like ju sixty to seventy. Area gets this massive kick in goes towards the green, but at the same time, if you try and bite off more than you can handle, it could probably like get lost in the sauce out there for sure rub. What about you? Well, I'll I'll answer to two different holes. One for me at one I know that tad is like over the moon excited about shaping the well grain. There's a, there's a grain that inspired by McKinley famous. Well. Our Arbor Shen gonna be probably pushing an acre inside. I mean, it's going to be like twice as big as the the big rain tweeden and it goes be so an agent wild. I mean, it's going to be close to forty thousand square feet and it's just gonna be cascading. This hill. It's just gonna be utterly dropping, but when it's done in one of the coolest sold an entire world for me, I was gonna say seven. I think that's a really good one. Number nine, the little short whole kind of encapsulates a lot of the second I've been talking about. There's a little little downhill shot. We're going to build this big baranca like take LA country club or something like that. You know, come natural drainage wash area in this short whole kind of fired by the one at national sits in the middle of the baranca like Musset Yampa. You know, there's. Darlie bunkers that are kinda crawling up out of the Barranca you know, rolling into the green and then right behind the the green is number number ten t. in all this island in the Brank and in back and are real sticklers about transitions. Goff holes thing that we both pay a lot of attention to like really good forces. They like nail. The transitions between hold they. It's like, go to makes you wanna go crazy and like that. That has like maybe the coolest transition on the golf course. Plus it's got the chance of like Vernier they go hole in one. If you can step up, hit the great shot for it's going to be like total ejection city. If you do. You don't if the shot this kinda got all the dynamics, I think that it's going to be amazing speaking for both of us using some words of wisdom that I just learned today. I think I let me say just just go fucking nuts. Guys. Just go do it. So we're excited. Congratulations on great week, Zack in rob, and for all you guys are done and everything you're doing to get this project off the ground. A lot of people think it's, it might not happen, but I left feeling pretty motivated and inspired to do anything I can to make it happen. It sounds like it's going to be a real special place in the Gulf world. So thank you guys for taking the time to walk us through it and forgiveness. A great weekend. Gulf. Thanks Royer support God, right? I'm going out to thank you guys recant it. You know we to work on those handicaps. Next year won the gross man. It wasn't even. You can't sandbag when you win it. Grow slowly took all the big toys. Listen, listen all the ones that you'd let me take home and. Kevin kisses on record as saying, I'm the worst six handicapped that's ever walked the face of the earth. The place just inspires good play. Just let me say it. So. It really does. Thanks for the time chairs. Jisr. Peter Wright club today. That's. Better than most. About him better than most. Expecting things.