145: Marriage In A Post Covid World with Nadia Ani, Anna Kaizer & Derek Dehanke
Welcome to life picks relationships helping you understand end in live in your marriage through the various perspectives and experiences of others. Who found a way to prioritize. What's really important in life from new love to those that have weathered the storms. Let's get ready to take your relationships to the next level with your host s. t. pictures. Are you ready to understand your marriage even better today. I'm super excited for today's episode. As we've got a couple other biz on it. Seen time guests might be types of episodes now before we get into today's episode. I should say wall. We're getting cities episodes. I have two questions for you number one. Have you downloaded the official app yet. The one that we learned about in the previous episode. We've sack where you're going to go on. Try new things. Go on Opener occasions about sex. And just get to know your partner are much more understand each other much better if not going to out walk. You are listening at the same time while you're listening if you haven't yet subscribe to the show do that now. Now for two as podcast. We have first psychotherapist. And the host of the killing coppard podcast. I'm going to links. And the show killing dot com nadia uneasy. Thank you so much for being here pronouncing your name right. I am so bad at this. But i am super excited to get this starters and before you tell us about yourself and i want to hear more about what you do. We have a couple anna kaiser and they're thinki- who hosts the eighty movies montage where they go and review eighty movies again when a older links in his show notes he could go and find him so ninety. Your tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do on the shores. So i guess i'll start with my professional stuff So i am a licensed therapist I graduated from columbia university. School of social work win with advanced couple studies and i worked for a long time in a trauma and community S further into my career started working more in the wrong relationships because god about this for a long time but on the relationships that we have really dictate the quality of our life in how we manage. Our relationships has a huge impact on that and so they got me super interested and rich out and be a little bit more independent exported from staff. And so i started working relationship. Coaching anna sort of doing a lot of work around dependency in narcissism being ready to start dating and work for that in a long time and most recently i have been working with exit. Usaa we help members of the violent follow rate to get counseling and resources to read and reclaiming their lines. So cool awesome. Okay and what about you anna there. You wanna tell us that yourself and how you guys met. Sure i get a kick things off so yeah a i'm ana and my husband is derek. And we've been together now actually. Today is officially forty. Nine months ago Last our anniversary some been married a little bit over four years and we met each other over the very romantic interwebs. He met online. You okay cupid and that was let's see here. Let me do some math. That will oh that will be ten years this winter this coming winter. So that's how the magic all began so awesome so if you had to look at relationship what would he say is one thing that you guys are awesome at. I would say. This is derek by the way i would say. It's our communication actually and certainly during the last year of being a pandemic. it's it's been as important as ever. I don't wanna say now more than ever. Because i've heard that phrase billion times over the last year but it's true being able to communicate. I think has has been for me at least the one of the things that we are also because we're able to talk about how we're feeling during all of the like crazy stuff that's happened over the last year and Try to say that the communication has helped at least for me to know that anna has my back or is there to support me. And i'm there to support her when either one of us is going to a particularly difficult time so i would say communication and that was a really lengthy response which makes me wonder if i am good communication. No i totally agree. I mean i think that just kind of piggybacking a little bit. On what derek said. In addition to the the truth for me is that there's there's literally nothing. I can't say to him. I know that i can tell him whatever. I'm feeling however. I think i know that he is never going to judge me for it. There's so much trust and compassion. I think in the way that we speak to each other but then also a lot of laughter that spins something that has i think always been part of our relationship but like he said the last year in particular the fact that we can still laugh is just so important to me and i mean he. He literally makes me laugh every day. I wrote it into my vows to him the like. That's something that i always will treasurer about. Our relationship is that he's just hilarious and Can always put a smile on my face. So what would you tell someone from your own personal experience. Who doesn't have such good communication skills. It's thank for me. It's just finding a way to to start like having you're not gonna necessarily in my mind. Open the floodgates and solve that problem. But it would start with just trying to have that that i i guess acknowledgement like we have a tough time talking about things in picking something to try to talk more about to to get to know more about why it is that that there is a challenge and talking about something in china opened up. That would say something like you often. No that's okay. I mean. I think for me as a partner i feel like it's my responsibility to make sure that derek knows that he can talk to me in that. I'm not going to judge him something that when we have had conversations about maybe a particularly vulnerable topic. I tried to reassure him that there's literally nothing that he can say that's going to make me think a certain way of him and so i think sad as a partner. There's you know kind of taking the leap of faith to be communicative with your partner. But also to let them know that they are safe with you and that they can trust you to express themselves and be heard and not be judged for toyed. Better answer okay. Now what you night night night now night ninety you wanna tell us. What are you seeing from your professional perspective. First of all about her communication and then other people do also improve their communication. So number one i mean. I think it's great that you've made communication priority and that you can put anything on the table. Because i think that a lot. Sometimes we internalize our own assumptions. About what the other person is thinking or feeling maybe what they can or can't handle and then we might end up going around the issue and we don't actually resolve it because we're also not getting their perspective. What the issue is because we're putting all of our own stuff onto it so i think it's great that you guys have out of the gate really put that as a priority in also that trusting compassionate such a big part of your relationship on livings you said was that you have a tough time picking kind of figuring out what the challenges and sometimes. That's totally normal a lot of times we go into something something rubbed the wrong way. And it's not actually what happened. Maybe there's something else that triggered us. We need to talk it through to get to that point. I think it's great that you guys have created that foundation where you can do that on on the general sense i think that when it comes to communication the the most important thing to keep in mind is just to be open and let the process take its course because sometimes you're not gonna start off by saying you know when you did this. I felt that like sometimes you just don't have the privilege or the you know to to have that information from the start and that's really what that dialogue is therefore is to help you both kind of worked through that process to figure out what the issue is so you can move forward together so i think that's great that you guys have really prioritize that and You know whatever. You're trying to resolve something just the process of just communicate about it and see what happens in in those conversations as those things. Come up as those things flow. That's how you know that's gonna open up. That space to be able to identify with the issue is and you have space to trust compassion entrust and than. That's the perfect environment for that. I think that's great. I liked it too much to the news. I mean honestly can't say it any better than the expert awesome. Okay so what's one thing that's challenging for you. In terms of communication in terms of marriage. General ooh marriage in general Up for us. What comes to mind is that it had although like our communication has certainly been an acid over the last year. I think it's been a challenge just because we both had our normal routines as far as going chair. Yeah like knowing okay. This is like our separate time for jobs and everything has been combined together. Were were around each other every second of every day four. Yeah so. I mean it's it's been great because it has it has been a source of huge support. Like i don't know how would have gotten through it without having you with me this entire time but it's also been a challenge is making sure that we give each other space within a small space over an extended period of time so that i think that's been something that yeah that is a challenge. Yeah no i would agree with that. I mean could go last year probably has taught everybody just how small their living spaces might be a when your home all the time but i think that that's that's probably i think especially over the last year. The thing that we both had to keep in mind is that you know we do live in a relatively small space re both are working from home. I mean it was an adjustment for both of us. Because i already was working from home so i moved into her all right exactly so so there was like knee having to accommodate leaving some nice as suddenly is there and then for him. You know he'd a correct me. If i'm wrong but i would say that you definitely do kind of work home. You know you work for work. Home is for home. i. I've always tried to have pretty solid boundaries as far as like when. I'm in the office at work. When i'm at home i'm at home. And so those all those boundaries have long since been like blown clear out of the water. Yeah so. I think that an what i think we've tried to do over the last year. We've we go for walks alone. You know we try to give each other a little bit of a state you know i get out so he can have his time at home and then he does the same for me so then i have my time at home. We walked to talk together. But but i would say that that's important and then you know not. I mean i don't think in particular and has been issued. You know not taking it personally if you wanted just like have a little bit of time to yourself and it's it's healthy. It's healthy to have that. So so what do you think so i would has been sort of. The biggest challenge was like an external forests in your relationship has been this thing together. Twenty seven and now that is one of the hardest things it is you know when especially in a year. Were already working from home. So you had to renegotiate your working at home. Dandari's in your office boundaries. And then derek. You had negotiate what your own work in home boundaries for you guys can Tolliday that together. Can you tell me a little bit more though abou how that has been challenging the two of you as a couple and cumulative more about what's that has brought up for you I mean i guess for me. It's remembering that. Like i mean to to this is derek derek. Solid dare like eating a choice to do. And so i will be totally honest that like a me having worked from home for a couple of years prior to all of this happening you get a little territorial about having your space when you go into work mode and that definitely wasn't adjustment in for the life of me. I don't know why it took so long to figure out our workspace. I think because we didn't think it's gonna go on. I think i think that's true. I think that when the work from home thing started we thought it was going to be a couple of weeks and then a couple months and we didn't really really seriously start to i. Guess is the workspace the space that we have to create a separate working spy because we were just kind of schering like some days. You would use your desk. And other days i would use it the on of like move around. You really wasn't working friday last. Oh it didn't work so we just kind of took the dining area and converted that into just a fulltime desk and so now we each have like our separate areas to work and for me part of the challenges. Like i don't i don't know if i'm the same person at work that i m at home. It's almost like my mind. Goes into in some ways like a different frame of mind to engage in some of the discussions. That i have an attorney and so it's like a different. I hope. I don't talk to you anna. The i talked to. So that's that's part of it. That's part of the challenge in part of boundaries and trying to like make everything everything work i mean i will say that like you know again. This is like it. It just is what it is. It's not it's not anybody solved but you know because his now workspace is essentially an offshoot of our kitchen. You know like when it's lunchtime. And i wanna make something to eat. You know my comment. I know he's on an important call right now. And so like i have to like hold offset wanna make noise but then it's fine because what i'm those his. What am on those calls. Everyone else is dealing with the same thing. And i've been on many like quote unquote important calls. Where all here on one hand from somebody on the call. okay everybody. this is super confidential. Don't talk about anything and then you see like their did run through the background. And i'm like also i mean. I have far fewer types of interactions like that. I'm very rarely needing to take like a work call or work zoom. Or what have you. But i have found that one of the simplest things that helps me kind of just quite like figuratively but also literally shut off in tried to focus on what i need to accomplish in a certain days. I just shut the bedroom door. Your hand and that helps me kind of like recreate. The semblance of like my own space and i might still be able to hear him. I i actually still wear headphones. Because i just i need to have that that barrier reef. We're hopefully we are headphones so that we try. Try to not hear each other to be honest. So that's been just those little things to try to like recreate as much as possible like i mean. I don't wanna it. Sounds kinda hokey to put it this way but like just kind of your sacred space and having having your own space to yourself during the workday and then honestly like once once we're done for the day it does kind of shot off for me. You know when our time at night so when you said it's not derek's fall three has to be home. All the time that struck by was that he was so well put because Actually relate to a lot of what you said. I've always worked on end. So when quarantine hit. I was used to having my desk to my own office and then it was like well now. Everybody needs to use it s not. Everybody has to work. And it's like but it's my desk. I bought the desk. And i put the desk here. And i'm the one who needs to fly living room and it's hard to like i totally understand what you mean about. It can be a little bit territorial but at the same time. It's like you know you have your especially around work. The way that we work with. We do our work. It's likely have other professional obligations than we really have to make sure that that doesn't that that's kind of left untouched. That's always of moves forward. The way that a dozen so that it can be really tough to negotiate to renegotiate all of those boundaries. Between like all right well. I also we also need to have personal space. Sometimes you just need to be alone by ourselves to decompress to do our thing in so you know trying to uphold both ways to super important. Things may work in a relationship trying to balance all of those three things. Super heavy things at the same time is really really difficult in making. You've done a great job saying what like yes. It is frustrating. I can say that yes. It is frustrating. Not have my own space. And sometimes i just want to use volume and say you just want to use a desk but yeah it's recognizing that hey i fueled territorial and i'm having to adjust also being able to work together and the whole space for like. Yeah it's it's okay that you feel that way and it's okay that we're in the situation together and we're gonna work together to make it to find what works for both of us and i think i've seen that a lot especially pointing where it's like you don't i don't think anybody he thought it was going to go on for this long. It did and we don't think about how we where do we work. We don't think about those things and so having to sit down like relief collaborate on that in deciding. What's going to be best for both of us. Would you need from your environment and giving each other. You know not only physical space but then also to hold space for a To say what you need being able to compromising not rich other. I think is great. Thank you. I mean to derek's earlier point again like i don't know why it took us so long to just like reevaluate. I think you know it. You kind of just naturally go to. Okay here's a work desk in the only one work test so we'll just share that work thus get it. Seems like the most fair thing to do and and then it's like okay. Well this is going on longer than either of us anticipated in. That's when when we finally just kinda brought out of our like routine way of thinking and saying okay. This dining room table is no longer going to be a dining room table because even derek didn't have his dedicated space you know and so now now this is just literally his workspace and nothing else. I think we had got like an external monitor from work before like two days before the work from home started and that was kind of camped out in your does and so. That's not something that could be moved around easily. I think eventually we we realized the dimensions of this dining room table are pretty close to the dimensions. So we can just move stuff over and this little corner. The dining room will just become a little little office and really importantly for my work laptop and all the zoom meetings that i'm on for that lighting is really good i think. Hopefully i mean. I feel like we. Can't you know possibly be the only couple of to kind of think outside the box in figure out more innovative ways to make that space that limited space work and be able to try to share share. Say the word from me equitable. Think you probably took longer. Yeah we we got their. This is just me over thinking like totally type. Maybe you could tell me. Do you think show something about them. Nothing bad were just like as a sign of something else evacuate. I took them a little bit longer to figure it out. Obviously no knew how long it would take. And it's one thing if it's just for two days or a week or so but does that say something about the relationship. But i think it's totally natural because i mean we've never been put into this position before where we would have to consider those kinds of things and especially if you're used to like if you go into an office you just work at your desk and that's all there is to it and then when you work at home you can organizer environment how it suits you and you know most of the time we never have to think about it beyond that and so i think it's just a totally you know. It was just a new situation that came up. We don't you know when things like this happen. We don't realize that something needs to change until that gnawing feeling sometimes gets a little bit deeper in like okay. Actually something needs to change so no mean and some people are more particular about their workspace than others. And so you know it really just depends on what works for you and you know it. Sounds like you guys got to a point where you realize that something needed to change and then decided that right. Well we're going to change it. We're gonna take our words for us. So i think that is totally normal to. We know response to something like this. Yeah yeah totally normal just like you said. I guess it's more not so much the relationship but more about like their relationship to their actual workspace versus to each other. 'cause like i could think of some people who like i know that worked to them and they came on my right like no. They made a place for their partner. Not all that wants better wants worse but the just not neither speeds for work. They won't let their marriage in their marriage won't let their partner go in use their desk their space not to be mean but that's just because that's how they think so etc rather help them find different place that they could go and work which you guys afterwards did so. There's no like better worse. But i think it's more personality. Maybe relationship and it was really great about letting me into like into office. Basically letting us her desk and i consistently felt bad about taking the space that i knew was a place that was her is that she had put together that she used every day So even when we did a split where like every day we would kind of trade off. I didn't really like that. Because i still felt like i was kind of taking away. Her ability to focus. It wasn't really helping me with my ability. Focus and ultimately. I think what literally the straw was my back because i just couldn't. We're working from the dining table but it was still a dining room table. It was just set up an office chair. Nothing set up correctly so like being sometimes. There's this not timer a chance to like. I was so busy with work that it was difficult to actually set aside the time it acknowledge this might go on for a really long time. So what all of those things kind of coalesced. I just moved the table around into a corner. Instead i brought you and said hey check this out. What do you think i. Yeah i give credits you because definitely. I don't know if i would have even thought to like made that suggestion. The team measured haley. You'll see admit the democrat habit so having that section of our home completely rebound to be office at for says like ooh. I'm not so sure but it. It was completed the right call. And i'm glad that he prompted that broke their stock. But yeah i mean that's great like sometimes you just you don't know what works for your which you like until until you're in there and so i think it's also great that you both condition This is what i need. Now let me help you figure out what give you what you need exactly like. Salt right away in the beginning of kobe. Those people in good relationships relationships gypsy Better in those nevada ones just got worse so just a proof of it now. If there was a question what is a question that you always wanted to ask therapists. Ooh well i. I mean i i don't mean to have this whole conversation revolve around but i will admit i'm very curious. You know what the change in your kind of your work style has been over the last year because i can only imagine the new scenarios that have popped up. And you know i actually talking about this more in terms of Child development and that sort of thing but we were talking about how like development experts must be in real time trying to figure out how to deal with how children have been affected by all this. And so i'm assuming that as a relationship therapist. It's the same that in real time. You're trying to work with these couples that are facing problems that they've never had to face before. So do you mean like in terms of like my own personal worklife. For how i see this in the broader scope in how this has been affecting couples like in general to be honest. I'm fascinated by both whatever on the other one also. Okay take it in for my own work style. I because i've always worked from home. I realized that. I i used to think i was sharing person. Not that i'm not that is just when it comes to my work like i like things to be a certain way. I like to get up very early. I like to have my coffee. I like to read. I like to have like a very various way that i like to do things and it. Kinda messes my flow. When i'm not able to do that. And when covered. I chose was roommates and it was really frustrating. Me that had all these people on my workspace. And i couldn't just you know do what i wanted to do. But then i realized actually. I need to take responsibility for this. So all right. How can i set some boundaries about this. Maybe i can send different states by room. What do what actually helps me. Stay motivated. What is it that i usually during the day i would just kind of you know would work on this with him. I would work on that and just kinda. Take it as it comes. When you don't have those same you'll have in freedom to kind of go off and do your thing on my head to really hone in on. Like what do i need like. What's a workstation. i feel good. What do i what actually makes me feel productive in. How can i do that. And what do i need to do more would need to set boundaries around. I need to ask for and that really helped me to think about my own productivity and my own relationship to work and you know over with my partner right now and that was something that was really big difference for me because i never also share a room so good in my own room and so it also really opened up a lot of dialogue around like boundaries in spaces and he works very differently than me and so you know how can we kind of create both those environments within the small space that we have and that was actually really helpful also helped us to get to know each other better and to also to to collaborate insert communicate and work together on something that actually felt really nice and i do think that is something that i think a lot of struggling with because it is hard to wouldn't working on office we don't know what around really always hourly given the option for like i actually. I like to read for an hour before star work. Well that's like we can't do that in office when you're working from home. You can do that. You can kinda take your time and you have a lot more freedom but then within that we also have to ask. What do i want and sometimes if we're not really connected to that it can be easy to show like. Oh gosh no way. Why why am i not happy right now and inserting to projecting that onto our partner rather than taking ownership of will actually need to change my environment. And there's something that's not working for me but if we're not connected to that we're not really connected to ourselves in what we need in how we're actually feel. It can be very easy to project the other person especially when there are states from four hours a day interesting on a personal level now in a more general aspect would he think. Yeah i mean like i said. I think that kobe is really forcing us to ask ourselves what i want. And what do. I need in really taking for that. Because it's so easy to have those boundaries blurred and It's very easy to kind of feel like well kind of i mean kind of go to ways. Sometimes you know you might not be sure of what you need and then your partner is because maybe actually wants days and you can't. You're not you don't wear that. That's actually what's causing the issue. So you said earlier. He realized wait. It's not derek here all the time so you know if you had been aware of that maybe it could have been very easy to get angry with him or start to pick picket him or a start to get snippy with each other and kind of starts on each other's nerves that there's not actually. You're not actually going to the real source of the conflict. Right in the real source of the conflict. Is there something that i am not happy with run heavy. I'm feeling frustrated. I don't have enough personal space for. I am not comfortable working at this desk in a heart back. I don't like this you know. But if you're not communicating about it. And i think a lot of couples because we've not been in situations where these kinds of things come up when we haven't in it's very easy to lose boundaries even in a pre covid relationship you know is very easy to not have good boxers with your partner and the time where you're having to negotiate so many between your work between yours relationship you know how who taking care of the kids who was who's on thrive with making dinner and so they're all these more always different boundaries and expectations and needs that have to be negotiated. Now that didn't have to. I think that one of the biggest things that couples struggling with is that they've not been in a situation where they've had to to address that and so there's all of these frustrated viewings because it's not easy high. It's very frustrating to being stuck in your house regardless and then having another person there all the time they have to take into consideration can just make that even more difficult and if you don't know how to join together and you don't know how to identify what your own. Your own feelings are on how to work with each other to to work on that and to decide. This is what i need and this is what you need on. We work on those things together. that can be really really challenging. Yeah i always say that before. Communication comes off wariness. Because if you don't know what you need any currently go communicate that to your partner or anyone for that matter. Absolutely thrasher question. Oh yeah answers my question. Yeah my question is is similar but different and it starts from you know. We've we've talked about the fact a few times the know. We weren't sure how long it was going to ask. you know. it took a while to really get our our space something that really works best for both of us another. We have achieved that shortly. I will be going back into the office. And so i guess the question i have is. What advice would you have or for us now that we've kind of achieved some kind of equilibrium working together being around each other all the time. I don't know how much of a shock to the system it's gonna when we're certainly not around each other all the time. I i've been thinking about that a lot actually In heinz field. Because i'm like so used to you being home now. And i'm getting kinda sad about the idea of you being gone because i do think. Although it was under challenging circumstances. I feel very lucky that i got to spend literally an entire year with you every day. Pretty much all day so it's been challenging in some ways but it's been awesome and so now just when we got used to it. It's going to be going away to some degree. Yeah i know it's hard you spend twenty hours of somebody and then when they're not there it's like this is so weird gun in especially for you because you're gonna want to absolve the wound but i you being in the house and then you know because you're you're you sierra being everybody's having a change of environment and your environment thing fame you're going to be still be in the house so they can be an adjustment but i guess so. Let me let me ask you this. Though i guess the sort of what i'm hearing though is that actually waiting. I don't have a question back. So i guess you know you know what i'm hearing that you're gonna miss each other and you're not sure of what to do with that fewing once. The time comes for actually office and in a sense of you guys have brought a lot in relationships. You guys have gotten to know each other on a much deeper level. It seems like you guys have had to really help each other to learn things about your each other and also yourselves and to be there to support each other while you decide like would you want relationship with work beer. What kind of environment works for you. And how'd you manage your boundaries having those really raw conversations in being really communicative about that. And i think that you can definitely carry that over into the post. Covid world anna. If you're at home in your feeling like them. I really mistake. Well maybe there's can and you know. I likewise you know. How can you guys communicate with each other during the day. And how can you guys spend more quality time with each other outside of the office because even you guys are spending spending the day together. You're not necessarily really engaged with each other because you're working. So what would it look like for you to have a little bit more of that connection at night. You know you guys. Don't really watch tv or do you normally are. Maybe you do normally like cook together at you. Spend time planning a meal together. Do do together where you can spend more one on one time do you. Have you know how you really spend your time. So sometimes it can gay just because you're a quality over quantity. He's because you guys are not spending as much time together. It doesn't mean that you still can't have that same level of fulfillment with the quality that you spend quality of time lanes together. I mean i think one thing that i definitely think especially given everything over the last year that i'm looking forward to is the opportunity to get to do little trips together. That's one of my favorite things to do with him. We just started going to the beach to go for jogging. Yeah i mean now we we will just go for a drive and get some coffee and drive around on the weekends. There's not really i mean. Things are opening up a little bit more. But we're still pretty cautious and haven't really gotten for indoor dining or anything yet but yeah we will probably do some of those things i feel like. There's going to be an emphasis on us having the ability to do things out of the. Yeah because i mean by the time. I mean i still remember the days when he would come home from work was was kind of and i mean usually that left us with time for dinner and and maybe maybe an hour or two of just kind of relaxing and i mean we definitely Tv watchers shows. We have our shows. And and so that that i do consider quality time because we are engaging with each other. We're not just like like he. He might have his switch. And i might have my computer but we're constantly talking to each other watching the shows around So i think just making sure that we are so engaging. But also i mean if i'm being really honest i'm gonna have to get used to dealing lonely during the day in those first couple months when you're gone and just realizing that like that's just a transition. I'm going to have to make and get used to that. So that's probably something that i just have to kind of accept but also you know. Yeah i'll be so excited to come home and be be mindful of of making the most of that time and then also yeah. I definitely somebody who puts allowed into like planning little things. And having those fun things some summertimes coming up like derek said things are beginning to open up by us in so hopefully having some stuff to look forward to those on friday. Yeah we'll be fully maxed by memorial day so so looking forward to doing stuff together again but safe but safely you have any specific advice for annan how she could be a little bit less. Loan not like what you could do. The loneliness not play. how she handle it makes the most of it so you know right now. You're only looking forward to like stealing of sounds bad someone i meant to say it's thinking about the things that you're want to lose. I'm going to lose time with their. I'm not gonna spend as much time with him now but at the same time you're right now you're thinking about you're seeing that change which is a loss of time spent together by but there's also things you you said you were going to gain from that so it's going to kind of bridge that gap. You know you're gonna be docks needed soon. You guys can start going back on trips together. You know when you guys when dark comes home from work now would maybe you guys can spend more time sitting in a witness. When i cook for dinner you know what's a recipe that you guys always wanted to try. How clean really to give yourself something to To so it doesn't just feel like this loss or this thing that that's really the worst showing like you're losing something bigger not getting anything back and that's not true. You're getting a lot of things are going to be able to go out and going trips again. You're gonna be able to do indoor dining soon. You're going to be able to go out and do things that she used to love to do that. You have been able to for the last year. Everything has a season and everything has something positive. Sometimes things also have challenges too. So i think the biggest thing that you guys to work together is one of those things that she went to look forward to those gains that you guys are looking for to also not only what you have to afford to also. Are you guys to plan and create together. Because that's the biggest thing. Yeah i think even the fact of being excited are coming home. It's like a simple thing that you've been missing the past the oranges. I had so much to the relationship. Definitely okay so our final question question. That i asked everyone. How do you describe an extraordinary relationship without using love connection or intimacy due dot using love connection or intimacy. Okay wants to go first best friend. That's that's a good one. Okay so it is like breaking okay so you know it could be a word. It could be a phrase full book if you are okay. Yeah i i. I like concise answer. I would like go back to what i was saying earlier but i do think laughter is a big part of it because there's know as we kind of been talking about this entire time there has been a lot that's happened in the last year but then even just over the course of our relationship together. We've endured alive. You know we've endured the loss of loved ones. We've endured health challenges for both of us. And i think that what gets you through is being able to laugh together. I know not every moment is appropriate for laughing. But it really i can't. I can't emphasize enough. How important is to me. That i have somebody in my life who can make me feel joyful and can make me forget when. I'm having a really tough day or really tough. you know. Monks her you know. What have you. And i feel beyond grateful The person in my life has that capacity to to to make me feel happiness. Even when really. I don't i don't wanna feel that way like i just feel very appreciative of what he's able to do. And that's part of the reason why he's everything to me. I didn't use the word but it a different way. Every just your life and you hear my turn. So i'll give you some more between a quote in a book so a lot of about this. Think about what really makes extraordinary relationship to me. It's not about this connection but it is not only that was specifically is how you help each other. How you instant how you influenced each other and who you influence each other to be and who you help who you are as a result of the relationship and also how you think really an extraordinary relation makes us wants to be better roundly for ourselves but also to the are best for the other person and recognizing that and growing and adopting a so you can become closer so that you can you know so that means that word so that that bond that you have will strengthen but then also you can be there for that person when they need you and understand. Hey you know what my partner really needs. My partner shows better. When i can be there and help them make them laugh and they're having a bad day. Okay well how. Can i know how committed provide that with them. Is there something about the way the maximum that might make a little bit more difficult. Or how can i be there and show up for them. And i think know getting to really understand each other on deep level and to. Yeah i think being able to understand each other on a deep level and then also to help each other out albatross. Be the person that she wants to be also to be inspired by each other to be somebody even better. I love that. So much is a great overview. This is amazing episode. Thank you so the will thank you. I need this has been so interesting. Nadia i really appreciate you being able to come into the spine be able to like you. You have said so many things. That have i mean especially when you talked about there being a season for everything that release stock with me and i just really appreciate you taking the time to kind of talk with us about where we are in our lives and i really appreciate your expertise in just the time and attention that you gave to us today. So thank you for that. Thank you so much. Thank you were coming up. Thank you for trusting me with us. I really appreciate it. I had a great time at a great time with you guys. I think you guys are doing and excited to see how everything goes through in this post. Covid world police officer while an s you so much for having on it's been our honor to to be part of it. Thank you for choosing us too. I'm sure you have to so many options. So thank you for choosing us to be part of your show really appreciate that again like the time and attention that you put towards us so that awesome thank you so much guys are really enjoyed. Speaking with all of you is really interesting to see. Just what you thought an idea of derek and anna and how awesome. They aren't really hold out. The good parts of them loose will be an interesting world. And i think this gave a lot of insight to off of.