Justice Brett Kavanaugh - SCOTUS Biopic!
Hey everyone welcome to let civil. This is the podcast. The breaks down politics government structure and dives into the context of current events. But in a superfund way I'm lizzy Stewart comedian feminist political junkie and Arden Wallet Hausky former Senate intern campaign staffer and political. Strategist in this episode. We're talking about Justice Brett Cavanaugh. So grab your vote and let's get civil just hit the just just hit it included it. Okay Okay here. We are here. We actually are here. Are you here. No physical body is in the space is IT I. I've lost touch with my physical body over the past thirty six hours. Like I guys just this sort of Louisiana where I'm at. I'm fully recovering from food poisoning like I like poisonous food murder so I'm recovering I. I'm Russian assault. I was body slammed to the ground. By whatever a and it was a humbling evening for me and it sounds like it was from like a nice restaurant chain. Nope it was it was from. It was from a highly respected place. I don't remember the name. It doesn't matter it just like all like there's no reason that this should have happened. I took all the precautions is only eat. Something new try new foods. Everybody knows I you know. I'm not of interest eater. It was something that I always order and it fully a back though. Yeah have I lost my body weight. Yes you look amazing. Thank you for saying that. I'm glowing I did was a sweat. It was able to shower which was shocking. But I wasn't able to like like dry my hair and showered and then like laid back down in bed so I I do still look like us but I am clean so pram. Thank you look. It's small victories. Honestly that's what I've learned over the past thirty. Six hours is it's the small victories. More victories in life. It's the making it to the toilet. Well it's like it's going. It's going to the bathroom in our. It's just number one number one gentle number one. It's your body's doing what it's supposed to do you know instead like instead of having to alternate between vomiting and you're very politely my body was like and now and on the one and now the two but it was. It was humbling blame. I feel like this is a pretty buck and distant. Segue into our top I. I couldn't be at the you bet I meant the best place possible to talk about what we're talking about today. Genuinely we have been anticipating this moment because simply we have to talk about it. We'VE WE'VE SET THE STAGE FOR OURSELVES. We've put us in a predicament. Where we simply have to cover the topic at hand. We do and guys you just. You just know that we're going to do our best. And we hope that you just go gently with us on this journey. But today we're continuing our Skoda's biopic bio pic. You tell me journey by talking about Brett Cap Brat Cavenaugh brats capital. What's to say that Old Brett? My first note is a high. Don't WanNa do this okay. That is the first note on my page. Okay let's jump right in his early life so Brad Michael Kavanagh. It's like of course his middle name ankle bright. My Catholic Catholic Catholic. That's a jump. I read read. I won't read them so it's not like that was the biggest boiler. I was I was holding on my back pocket for fun. Facts for bags on facts Catholic. And that's it No Brad Kavanagh was born in Washington DC on February Twelfth. Nineteen sixty five so he has fifty five years old. You said birthday his birthday he's also one of the youngest out. Who's younger? Hemmer Neal Gorsuch. 'cause I don't remember but they are both on the younger side of things. His parents are Martha in Everett. Cavenaugh Martha was a judge and prosecutor. Everett was a president of a Trade Organization. So I kind of see I kind of see where a lawyer came out of this in. Yeah I see if he was born in. Dc what the hell else was he supposed to legally if you're born in DC you have to go into law to sorry. I don't make the rules. Read the quired and now he is married with two children and as art and has already spoiled for us is a Roman Catholic couple of Catholic. There's a couple of on the bench. Yeah which like you know and I'm going to Patrick Leesburg to Sante. You know what I mean. Yes sorry that was Latin praising. What happens when you get food poisoning as you learn that when I was lying on the floor wanting to die I was like maybe I should just take up a dead language language? I am dead that I can use in the afterlife when I'm done. Listen you'll be able to Jesus no problem and that's the only person I'm wanting to chat with okay. The his education He went to Georgetown Preparatory School as apparently did neal gorsuch interesting. According to Skoda's made I don't think so because I do think they're different in age but I'd apparently they both went there. I mean he received his b from Yale. Graduating in nineteen eighty-seven Magna cum laude. He received his juris doctorates from Yale graduating in nineteen ninety. So Yale Man as I've ever seen one through and through their Andrew and is road to Skoda's which is gonNa seem very familiar. Everything about him is familiar until it's not okay. Yep So from after graduating in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine hundred ninety one. He was a law clerk to judge Walter Stapleton of the US Court of Appeals for the third circuit. I should also say this lifetime lanham saying is coming directly from CNN. Thank you from nine. Hundred Ninety one to nineteen ninety two. He clerked for judge. Alex Kozinski of U. S. Court of Appeals for the ninth circuit so he starts in the appellate court which is interesting then from ninety two to ninety three. E. Is an attorney with the solicitor. General's Office at the Department of Justice. Interesting and then from ninety three to ninety four. He served as a law clerk to justice. Anthony Kennedy won't replaced. I think so. Yeah yeah he was hanging. Actually I'm not GonNa do this anymore. I he retired. And you're like we're not expecting and the knee hold on. Can you give us like a six months notice? Starting thank you. Yes so he so. That's not now we see clerking for a Supreme Court justice. It's just a couple of years later than our other friends usually do it right because you know like honestly honestly cares from ninety four to ninety seven and also nine hundred ninety eight he was an associate counsel for Kenneth Starr's independent counsel for the Whitewater investigation which led to the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Okay so shy. Like how do you like? Do you interview for that job. Like how do you pick your people? How do you go and pick people right like? You're not just like hey. Hey Ey Kenneth I wanna be I WANNA be on your council. You know. There's no like you know like job posting Kansas. Just like I want Breyer's I want Brett on morality breath Michael Gavin. Ah On my side yet so he. He's on the Whitewater investigation. We love it. And then from ninety seven to ninety eight and one thousand nine hundred ninety. Two thousand one. He goes into private practice and is a partner at you. Do Kurt Ellison Washington. Everybody Dabbles in private practice. Probably to just like get a ton of money. Oh Yeah 'cause like right you make a ton of money right. I don't know this backgrounds like he can charge a pretty penny right well. Sure makes and make some dough but like what is this is what I don't understand like what is the most impressive thing on this list. Like what are you lead with? You know I mean so. Far of the things we've read I was clerking for justice. Anthony Kennedy that would right. I don't know I know that's true though. I Don. I don't know enough about like the status of these things. Yeah there's somebody knows what's more important. Call me and tell me because I'm just curious like what like right to put something at the top. Your resume right is it the clerking or is it. The the investigation of Bill Clinton Bill Clinton right. I guess it depends on who you're interviewing for. That's true you know. Maybe he has like a law clerk resume like I have audio resume. I have like own assistant treasurer. Like maybe he's got like a law clerk resume and Investigative to gator resumes Scher. Okay so into the early two thousands even partner at at this firm in Washington. We love to see it. Great so then from two thousand and one and two thousand and three he serves as associate counsel to and then senior associate counsel to President. George W Bush. That's I mean that's pretty. That's pretty high really servants. I know that like justices generally work for a president before they like. That's a common thing there. Yeah but it is but it's totally been a thing. I mean I feel like half and half. Yeah five have done something like this for some resident. They tend to be more like serving of the president than serving of like a legislator legislative. Councillors done that. Yeah yeah interesting. Yeah so in on July twenty two thousand and three a Bush w Bush or nominates cabinet the. Us Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. But the Senate doesn't vote on Kavanagh's nomination for almost three years. Sure yes seen that before so from in that time from July two thousand three to may two thousand and six. He serves assistant and staff secretary to Bush. What's interesting position for somebody with like a doctorate of law to be staff secretary yet? I guess what's He GonNa do? I mean he's like waiting for his nominee hers confirmation. Yeah you gotTa keep busy. We could call you at any time passing that like you know. We'll just we'll just keep you around. We'll give you a desk. We'll give you a desk. We'll give you a desk and you know like well. We'll avant trump you right. Have you in August? We'll find somewhere to do. Yeah Yeah so finally on May Twenty six two thousand and six the Senate Confirms Cavanaugh to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals by vote of fifty seven to thirty six not very popular but more popular than I think. His next Confirmation will be and then on July ninth two thousand eighteen president. Donald TRUMP ANNOUNCES CAVANAUGH as his nominee to fill the supreme court vacancy created by Kennedy's retirement. So the time line is pausing here. Because now we're going to switch gears and talk about Dr Christie Blasi Ford Because I just felt like we should so this is what I could find. It's it's interesting. I don't think you can talk about Cavanaugh without talking about Christine Buzzing. Talking about Clarence Thomas and not talking about it and yeah and I was just sort of like doing these notes being like I actually don't want to give all the space to him. I'm GONNA give some space to her new. That's how I'm going to do it because this is our podcast. Hey go so. It's what what is interesting about Dr Does that. There's not a ton of like personal information about her so I'm just sort of giving basic facts because I feel like why you know I don't want to like put our last. Yeah so this is just what we know her early. She grew up in Washington. Dc and attended Holton Arms School for Girls and by the time you say that Bethesda Bethesda. I don't like the T H and the next to each other Bethesda Maryland which is where the incident occurred. That we will talk about it in a second her personal life. She is married with two two children and lives in Palo Alto but apparently has had to move post the hearings her education which is actually very impressive. She received her undergraduate from the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill she received her Masters Degree from Stamford and Pepperdine University. She received her PhD from the University of Southern California. Get it so she is how we would say a smart lady she is Martin Accomplished and as for professional career this is coming directly from NPR. I will say from you and just one second from Meg Anderson it. Npr thank you. Meg Ford is a professor and research. Psychologists in Northern California at Palo Alto University and the Stanford University consortium a Clinical Psychology Program where she teaches statistics. Research methods and psycho metrics Seco- match. I have no earthly idea so interested. You can be taught it. I'm interested in the I wonder if it's like how. You measure psychology baby. Who's to say this? She has been widely published in her field. According to a two thousand sixteen book she co authored her consultation. Area of expertise is the interaction. Between pharmaceutical companies and the Food and Drug Administration whoever becomes president should put her in charge of something something in that field. That's elevate her up and like yes. Yes it is like. Do you have space because this is not like not that you should have to be like a highly educated. Well decorated person to be believed. But like come you know like there's there's a lot at stake for her. Right is what I will say so with. That said. We're back on the time line and we're talking about Brett Kavanagh's confirmation hearing just stay with us. Okay so on. September fourth through the seventh of two thousand eighteen. Confirmation hearings are held a Senate Judiciary Committee. Vote is tentatively slated for the week of September seventeenth on September sixteenth. Two thousand eighteen. The Washington Post published an article about a California psychology professor who accuses Cavenaugh of attempting to rape her when they were both teenagers at a House party during the early nineteen eighty s Kristine. Blasi Ford says she initially sent her letter to Senator Dianne Feinstein about the incident when Kavanagh's name was included on a shortlist or the Supreme Court. So at some point between July and September. Yeah Dr Ward Sentence Trying. I remember the coverage of this could. Yeah I was like I just I. I felt like I had to tell somebody and I didn't know who to to hell. Yeah I didn't know who. Yeah who do you tell about something like this so she tried to go? I thought she initially. Yes she went to the senator and then ended up going to her congress person And she also went to the press and there was and then the people like. Why'd you go to the press to you want famous? She was like no. I just like somebody had to know and I didn't know what to do. Like how do you whistle blow? If you don't know who you're supposed to totally blow to me like that's such a great way to put it really. Yeah Yeah So. That was on September sixteenth. And this is again like right before that are supposed to vote on me on his. The Judiciary Committee is supposed to vote right then. On September twenty third two thousand eighteen. The New Yorker magazine publishes a report about a second allegation of sexual misconduct prompting. Feinstein to call for a postponement of confirmation proceedings the magazine Article Centers on a college classmate from Yale Deborah Ramirez who says cavenaugh exposed himself to her while a group of students were drinking at a party in a dorm during the nights. Nine hundred eighty three nine hundred eighty four academic year. Cavanagh denies the allegation and White House. Spokesman spokeswoman dismisses the claim as on cooperated. It's interesting to me because it's like you told me that. And this is a generalization but like sorry. I'm recovering from food poisoning. Like have you told me that some law dude in the eighties at Yale is drunk and shows his penis to someone like yeah You have to. I have to like like history cooperates that like I know it's uncorroborated. I'm like what are you talking about like? Look at look at the problematic culture that we live in like what's right and it was funny. That means that funny but the pushback from some people were like well these young kids and they just they were. It was alert and they are. You know they were children or young. Adults are not children but like you know teenagers adolescents. I people do stupid things and I'm like yeah I am. I spent a lot of time in my adolescence with guys who like I did theater. We just didn't it would have been anathema for one of them to like pull out a Dick like you're sure just at a party. That's not normal. The idea that there's this is just what boys doing boys will be boys. That's the problem. Sure if that is how you feel about the situation. That's not how boy there's an a an appropriate for boys to be you're just demeaning boys in general because boys shouldn't do that thing. I don't like whip out a titty. You don't you famously. Have yet to whip out not not a once as it happened and we've spent a lot of time together you know through. Yeah I it's it's such an I think A problematic argument of like well should something that somebody did when they were. Let's sixteen Ruin a professional chances of professional chance for them. You know forty years later and I'm just sort of like well if it's a crime right probably if it's a crime we're looking at a lifetime appointment if something right I just. It's like I don't know it's just the lack of its this problematic culture of like well if it's happened an X. amount of time ago then because you didn't report it right away it's no longer carries weight or validity right because you waited so long to talk about when really if she had said something at the time what would have happened probably nothing literally not literally nothing and it's not like she's saying. I want to take him to court for this thing. She sang you guys. Should know guys should know that this is the type of person that he is. This is a lifetime appointment and I don't somebody who experienced this from him. Yeah and she works. She's to works in psychology. Like she knows that this wouldn't stuff like this happens. At a young age it becomes. It's part of a larger pattern rightly people. Don't just stop behaving like. I mean you can ask because I behaving like assholes but generally that behavior is indicative of larger things in in personality. Sure and like she doesn't clearly she doesn't talk to have an are. They hadn't talked to him in some time but like that is something that like. I'm glad that she came forward that something happened. Sure absolutely I also So I watched her full confirmation and And are not confirmation her full testimony and his which is a very very long day. But I remember In some of the questioning like I just had this distinct memory of her talking about the hippocampus And I was like. Oh my God. Yeah like she knows she knows brain word yes she knows you could have not had more a better person to come make that kind of a testimony because she was like emotionally available clearly and traumatize clearly like a somebody who's listened to a lot of true crime stuff if somebody can emotionally and physically put themselves in this situation and map out where they were like. It doesn't really matter that she can't remember the day the the the fact that she can remember where she was in poor herself. They're like that speaks to the validity of her statement but then she also has her psychology background. Ger- like you could not ask for more and she been talking about it to her. Own Psychiatrist would documented it like. She had said years before that this had happened. Like you could not ask for a better witness. Yeah absolutely oh sorry. It's OK Christine. Think she's so lobster we love it okay. So then on September twenty seven two thousand eighteen as we've spoken about cavenaugh in four testify during an all day hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee and as we famously remember. Republicans hire a special prosecutor to do the questioning. Dr Ford they were there was a lot of talk about trying to avoid. What p what. The Democrats are no. Yeah with the hill You know and specifically like somebody who gets still problems for it today as Joe Biden. Yeah for you know the questioning and and how awful they sounded so they're the Republicans this time we're like cool we won't we won't engage other and they put the special prosecutor in front. Who you know like the question to me I. I didn't see necessarily other than the Republicans not looking like assholes asking questions of Dr Ford. I didn't see really any sort of like big gotcha moment for using this special prosecutor. I was just like cool. She just asked like do questions and I felt like she was trying to be respectful. Yeah well and trying also trying to end the subtlest way. She could like try to undermine her which is her job they try to undermine. Christine. Lousy Ford Chrysler. Luanne Ford was so just like innocent sitting there like she was just like. I'm sorry I don't I don't understand. Can You repeat that? Like yeah she just anytime that were there possibly could have been a moment where the prosecutor was like. And you actually think this. Are you anytime? She could have possibly undermined your doctor. Ford was like I. I'm I'm really sorry I just I'm I'm trying to understand what your your question is like. She disarmed her with her. Nearly it was after after that testimony. I remember thinking like there's no way he gets through because it was so damning. Yeah it was and with that said. If you're cool with it I was going to read an excerpt of Dr Ford's opening statement Sure and so. This is what Dr Ford said happened that night. When I got to the small gathering peop- people were drinking beer and a small living room on the first floor of the house. I drink one beer that evening. Brett and mark were visibly drunk early. In the evening I went up to a I went up a narrow set of stairs leading from the living room to a second floor. Use the bathroom. When I got to the top of the stairs I was pushed from behind into a bedroom. I couldn't see who pushed me. Brett and mark came into the bedroom and locked the door behind them. There was music already playing in the bedroom. It was turned up louder by either Brett or mark. Once we were in the room I was pushed onto the bed and Brat got on top of me. He began running his hands over my body and grinding his hips into me. I yelled hoping someone downstairs might hear me and tried to get away from him but his weight was heavy. Brett groped and tried to take off my clothes. He had a hard time because he was so drunk. And because I was wearing a one piece bathing suit under my clothes I believe he was going to rape me. I tried to yell for help when I did. Brett put his hand over my mouth to stop me from screaming. This was what terrified me the most and he had the most lasting and hat and has had the most lasting impact on my life. It was hard for me to breathe and I thought that Brett was accidentally going to kill me both. Brett and mark were drunkenly laughing during the attack. They both seem to be having a good time. Mark was urging on. Although at times he told Bret to stop a couple of times I made eye contact with mark and thought he might try to help me but he did not like. There's a lot of detail. There's so many details a lot of like it's just it's so response to sexual assault. Culture is so angrily frustrating and like there's so many details in this unlike women get berated all the time because they can't remember specific details right and yet you have a woman here with specific details specific easily details. I remember I was walking home. I was walking to Penn station one night from a friend's house and I was going home on the train and I was talking to my mother and I was walking talking on this on my cell phone and I passed a guy who seems completely innocuous. I didn't really pay attention to them. And as I was passing he literally reached down and grabbed my button and I was like and I turned around and I was like what what what just happened and be I looked at the man and he seemed like I was going to pick a fight with him. He was taller than me like I looked mentally unstable enough. That are not going to pick a fight with his individual but like I can remember what part of the block I was on you. What felt like what time of day it was approximately but like I couldn't tell you what day it was and what I was wearing like. There are certain things that stick in your memory. Because that's the like you associate your emotions to those Things there are so many details in here. Yeah and she was fifteen like a teenager. Yeah and that's the other part of it. They like say something then right. She's a teenager she's a it's not like it's now no it is not like it is now. I mean I think people forget like very there are people who people are afraid to come forward now. Yeah there's it was very different. Yeah they're like no. I Con Snow for women to look to you to be like okay. Well you know. This person has to this per movements. There's no like there's nothing there's no training there's no info I mean there's there's no infrastructure yeah like there's view is not on. The area is not not in the sphere. Fictionally a realistically. There's nothing so I just want to read that because again. I still want to hug her. That whole watching the whole thing I was just like I I want to give you so many hugs. Yeah okay back to the time line So the you know is this of his confirmation. Yes we're still confirmation so on the twenty seventh when they gave both of them gave their testimony and on the twenty eighth Gop Senator Jeff Flake a member of the Judiciary Committee agrees to vote. Yes paving the way to a floor vote but he says the FBI should reopen its background investigation of Cavanaugh and spend a week long looking into the claims made by Cavanaugh user. See Remember he was the one who is Right right in an elevator right by sexual assault survivors trump later agrees to direct the FBI to reopen its check but the probe will be limited in scope and must be completed in one week right so then on October third two thousand eighteen the FBI completes its supplemental background check and sends the information to the Senate late that day so this is what five days later on October Fourth Wall Street. Journal publishes an op-ed by Cavanaugh in which he argues that he is independent impartial judge he expresses regret for a few statements during the September twenty seventh hearing explaining that he was frustrated and emotional. He pledges going forward that litigants. Acog colleagues will be treated with respect the same day retired justice. John Paul Stevens says that Kavanagh's comments during his confirmation hearing suggest bias yes and says. Cavanaugh should not serve on the Supreme. Gordo those the thing at the end of the day you can put a pin in Dr Bazi for like her his own conduct. Don't even have to deal with her. His own conduct during his hearing was should disco should have disqualified him from serving. I guess the argument that I've heard is like well. This is a man who's like fighting for his reputation and I'm like I hear I hear that like these are serious allegations right here. I hear that but had like the reason why I guess I'm sort. I sort of like roll my eyes a little bit like had Dr Blasi Ford. The victim shown any amount of sort of anger had any sort of flare up or she would have been immediately. Dismissed immediately dismissed all credibility. And it's like I get that you are upset at the allegations that are thrown at you like shirt. You don't want to deal with them. You don't want to deal with them and sucks like whatever but like you're still. It's still a job interview right like it's an on contrel job interview but it's still a job interview she She also didn't. She testified in relaid her story and her experience of the event that happened to her when she was a teenager. She didn't say anything accusatory or negative against him as a person now know she literally just talked about insurance right. She talked to her experience. And he in his testimony attacked. Amy Globus are who is a senator from another branch that he would be serving on? Who's sitting in front of her. And what have him And you're like this is how you're dealing under pressure and I get it. It's a lot of pressure But that is it is it is a testimony to your character or lack thereof that in the moment of pressure. Your response is not to say. Okay I'm GonNa take that in and I'm going to have a thought process it internally and I'm going to respond In a constructive manner. Maybe it won't be positive but it won't be negative attacking. He took it and immediately flipped it and attacked Emiko Bouchart. And you're like yeah my response to that. I don't know how you trust him to make to make ethical decisions when you can't you can't see the horse for the trees. They can't just turn on an attack somebody and then be given the highest job in the land. I mean I guess you can't 'cause he's sitting on the bench but like it's it I don't understand. Yeah if he had said you know what back in highschool used to drink some. I went to parties. And I'm I don't remember doing this but it's you know I could have been drunk and I don't remember and I am sorry I apologize like I would have gone a long way. He was always going to get through but like make it less messy just to it or do you have to own up to it just to say it could have happened and if it happened in this way. I don't remember and I am so sorry. Can Abilities a tricky thing? Sometimes it hit so then after the five day long FBI investigation. I got it so long. It's long as so long On October six two thousand eighteen. The Senate Confirms Cavanaugh. With a fifty to forty eight vote notable votes were Democrat Joe Mansion and Susan Collins Voting. Yes and then. Lisa Murkowski voting present. He's sworn in by Chief Justice John Roberts during a private ceremony shortly after and then I pulled this thing. Because Lisa Murkowski's vote was interesting because I just thought she voted. President was like whatever but this is located. It was calculated and this was from. Who is this from Jennifer Victor at box? So this is what is interesting about it. Mackenzie used a procedure that is used that used to be more common in the Senate called Pairing Pairing occurs when two senators make an agreement to allow their votes to cancel each other out and Murkowski's case she had paired with Montana. Republican Steve Daines Yep Danes. Whose daughter was getting married on Saturday. Danes could not return in time for the vote without missing his daughters big day and the party. Leadership did not want to hold the vote longer than was necessary but it turned out that neither Murkowski's ordains votes were critical to the outcome. Cavenaugh would be confirmed regardless of what either of them did so. Murkowski offered to pair with Danes. So that he could attend the wedding and the vote could be processed as scheduled Saturday afternoon. By voting present Murkowski gave Dane some political cover for missing the vote since his absent. Yea didn't hurt the party 'cause Murkowski didn't need to vote Nay to achieve the desired effect although functionally she might as well have since her action did not help the candidate but it did help. Dan's that's wild. Yeah just like this everything going on. I'm like can you like? Can we just stop with this? There's so much craziness going around. Okay so that is the confirmation Yep is now on the bench. I pulled some notable cases. Because you have to talk about notable cases there are some interesting things here that the source one is actually interesting. This is from when he was on the on the quarter of DC circuit. Yes Oh yeah. Two thousand eleven. Yeah so this is seven sky the holder. I'm so this was the case. It was a forerunner of this is all from early. As by the way it was a forerunner to the landmark Supreme Court ruling a three judge panel decided to to one that obamacare's individual mandate was constitutional while Cavanaugh. Dissented from the main opinion did not go as far as declaring obamacare unconstitutional. Instead he argued that the court was not yet in a position to hear the case because under an arcane nineteenth century law known as the Tax Anti Injunction Act courts could not hear challenges to attacks that had not been collected yet and thus any decision would have to wait until two thousand fifteen when tax payers had to file mandate penalties for the first time. That's funny in summary. Cavenaugh didn't uphold obamacare but he did not take the opportunity to strike it down either so this was one of the things when they were looking at Cavanaugh. As a as a potential Supreme Court nominee that more conservative folks were actually concerned about? Because right it notat's and you kind of see this a little bit now although. He's still fresh on the bench right that he is a little more swinging. Yeah then I think conservatives would like him to be but what ended up happening with this case is this is something that Chief Justice John Roberts used as sort of to lay out upholding. The individual mandate part of it Just sort of lay the groundwork for that decision. I love the Conservatives. Don't like this decision because he didn't take the opportunity to like stab it in in the jugular when he could literally didn't kick somebody when they're down buck you now there because I mean honestly because it could have had severe repercussions of like out you know even though it was a two to one and it was already being ruled as constitutional leg to have like a full descent being like he. It's not and here's why right to lay some sort of framework right it you know. It was a missed opportunity Another notable case the Chapman I think in two thousand eighteen. This was one that was talked about a lot in his confirmation It was again. Yeah Oh so we're shell. Garza represented the seventeen year old girl known as Jane Doe in the case. Garza the Horrigan. The case began as a suit against the Office of Refugee Resettlement. The O. R. Because we love an acronym over their decision to block Jane who was detained in an or facility from receiving an abortion. They did so by refusing to transport her to her appointment even after she received the proper approval from judge. Just feel like you. Don't get to decide and sure you do your you. What is initially a State Court? A Texas State Court judge ordered that Jane Doe be permitted to leave custody to attain the abortion right given that she had obtained the proper judicial bypass to undergo the procedure without parental consent and had secured private funding to pay for it. I'm sorry she did better than Marbury. Now she got the right page. Got All of the courses the Marbury everything even women who go through all of the steps can't get what's legally they're right right. The O our appealed to state court decision to Federal Court which is where Kavanagh came in as part of a three judge panel for the Federal Appeals Court for the District of Columbia Circuit cavenaugh ruled to invalidate state judge's order. It was eventually overruled by a full panel of judges on the court where Kavanagh dissented so cavanaugh invalidated. And then that. And then the full panel judges overruled. Kavanagh's invalidation thank God and in his dissent. Cavenaugh stated that the decision to overturn was quote ultimately based on a constitutional principle as novel as it is wrong. A new right for unlawful immigrant miners the US government attention to obtain immediate abortion on demand. Don't you love that way? What he said that the that this new principal rat is it's wrong for an unlawful immigrant unlawful minor immigrant emigrant miner of the in the US government attention to obtain an immediate abortion on demand. That is an. It's like a real. It's a really big mischaracterization of what's happening here right. We Love buzzwords. It's also the laws of the land of the laws of the land. Just because you you're on our soil our allies are laws. Apply to you good and bad jer. Look you don't have to convince me not Listen I know and how this pan out as she ended up getting the abortion anyways she did. I mean I don't think actually never lightly or or like. She's I'm Hal this chamonix she got an abortion. And so it's sort of like invalidated everything because she just was able to as women have to do right away. Well I remember this happening and they were. They kept dragging it out and I was like. They're going to make her have this baby Nash. She's only got so much time because it's not. We do have a time limit. There's this time limit so interesting. It's not nine months it no no. It's not so I also it's interesting to me. I'm like there was a Texas State Court. Judge who is like yeah? She did everything she was supposed to give the abortion. That's elevate that might come on or woman. Who is this person? I don't know if there's they're long. You mean to tell me that a Texas decor judge made a wrong decision about abortion. Like why Crazy. Oh man male right won a right ones are yes a right one okay. So another okay. Now we're on the Supreme Court. Okay so this is Harry Shine Sheen. Inc versus Archer and White Sales Inc. dispersed his first year on the court so The reason why I'm putting this because this is Kavanagh's first written opinion of the Court. And it's kind of a lame one This is what it is. The ruling. An appeals court opinion. That had allowed a court to decide whether an issue in contract between dental equipment manufacturer and a distributor should be decided by. Don't say it you know this word are but Trish in mom are pretty circe mouthed it to me arbitration well why are racial arbitration? So Mad. Both my malting like arbitration arbitration. It's it looks like arbitration to me. It doesn't matter. We're talking about dental equipment. It Really I. This is so specific in a weird way. I know announcing his ruling from the bench cavenaugh used the word arbiter ability thirteen times. The word arbiter -bility. I don't know you ask. We're looking this arbitrage. It has to be a word. I can't imagine he'd used the word thirteen times. I mean come on. I know what else we don't like him. But you gotta be able to use the right words arbitrarily. Yeah arbitrarily concerns. Whether a type of dispute can be can or cannot be settled by arbitration. I mean it is really think it is. I mean it just sounds made up. I get that it's real. It just sounds like a quarter share as he saying it and he used it so many times. You're like bright. You're on the nose you're also the other sort of boring. This was a full unanimous decision and John was just like. Hey Brian WanNA take this one. Buddy buddy do you. WanNa do WanNa just knock it to you. Thank you got it. Trade it but try to use arbiter ability less than twenty times and Brett's like got it do you think he turned in the first draft and John like no Brad to too many too many arbitrations too many exclamation point. Man Take I will say I think at this point. I've read almost everybody's writing. I haven't had the pleasure of reading brats yet because I tried quite simply didn't Wanna read this one because I just I'm like Jimmy something jazzy. When Brad get something jazzy I will read that yet. But just just seems very boring. Yeah but I mean I guess it's normal to be like your first written opinion of the court right right right WanNA throw them a softball. GonNa just give bread gerrymandering right. That would be very five for decision. Yeah give him like you know little only then rental equipment. I know this is the least sexy like case I've ever seen okay. Another sort of interesting thing. In December of his first year caveat joined Roberts and declining to hear abortion cases from Louisiana and Kansas something that you talked about those man something that thing in his first year on the first full year on the bench. He sided with John Roberts. Ninety four percent of the time like that's the person he so. Wow Yeah and people are like either. He's like GonNa be a another key. Swing vote. Yeah which kind of based on his I mean. He's not an elite and he's not Thomas so and he's not really a Gorse. I feel like actually gorsuch and Thomas are much more like what does the constitution say early and Alito Justice. Step up and then John Roberts's like let's just take out. Let's just brought in a little bit more but only sometimes Riley when I want to right so like he could be a key. Swing vote like Roberts but also it's apparently kind of usual for somebody to side with the the chief justice as kind of like a like a safety not safety thing but just like right like making like not making controversial decision decision. Because if you're siding with the the chief judge it's like what are we going to do go like brats like yeah this is classic Brett. You know you're probably GONNA actually go after John. Roberts I right I also feel like it feels like there are issues that he's much more willing to be swinging on. He's more willing to swing for like a healthcare whereas abortion. I feel like he would take the opportunity to like stab you in the jugular but but I think only if the other conservative justices are too I would. I would argue John. Roberts's like actually. It's not for me on like Martian cabin. I'll be like you know what no more worship Whereas John Roberts were to be like I'm going to swing on a swing on this one then I would. I would bet cabinets with something I like in his first couple of years. Yeah it would be interesting to me on something as controversial and especially considering. Yeah where he's coming from. Yeah I would be surprised I would be surprised. I don't know it'd be surprised. I and I also would imagine that if he was like you know say no to abortion that he would write some sort of individual either yes or incurring descent. Yeah that'd be like just his YEP ellwood Yep so. Let's just hope we don't have to go there guys my good okay. So this is another one on the on the Supreme Court that I found interesting. And this is Garza. The Idaho Love Idaho's in the picture. We don't hear about them a while we know so. This is the facts of the case on January. Twenty third thousand and Fifteen Gilbert. Oh Gilbert Oh thank Gilbert Oh Gilbert Gilbert oh guards junior entered an Alford plea that it which is a plea maintaining innocent but conceding that the evidence is likely to convince a jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to aggravated assault on February. Twenty fourth. Two Thousand Fifteen. He pled guilty to the possession of a controlled substance with the intent to deliver both plea agreements required Garza to waive his right of appeal. The District Court accepted the plea agreements and imposed a sentence in accordance with both of them shortly after sentencing. Garza informed his trial counsel that he wished to appeal but council declined to file the appeal citing Garza's waivers four months after he was convicted and sentenced Garza filed a petition for post conviction relief in each case alleging that his trial attorney was ineffective not filing notices of Appeal Super Shady. Garza's attorney SL- stated in an affidavit that he did not file an appeal because Garza headway his right to appeal by accepting the plea agreement. Use The neighbors but the District Court dismissed Garza's petition to open. The appeal period appeals period on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel and the Appellate Court affirmed the dismissal under Roe v Floors Ortega which is which is criminal defendants have a six amendment right to a reasonably effective legal assistance a defendant claiming ineffective assistance of Counsel. Must Show one. That counsel's was deficient and do that. Counsel's deficient performance prejudiced. The defendant generally counsel's failure to file an appear appeal at a criminal defendants request is professionally unreasonable and therefore deficient and most federal circuit courts interpret Florez Ortega to mean attorneys are ineffective when they do not file an appeal if clients requested regardless of whether defendants had waived their rights so the Supreme Court ruled six three in favor of the defendant with cavenaugh joining Roberts and the other liberal justices in the decision. So it's like yeah. He waived his rights. But generally if your client asks you to still appeal you have to file it and if you don't file it and they've asked you to. It's it's deficient love. A good paperwork fight. Look we love it? Always comes now is going to be tabled. Another one where it's like. It's a bit of a liberal ruling. Right to to vote to support the defendant. Who In this case is a criminal for sure and not the court of law and it's also like there's a lot of interpreting because as the said it's like the courts have generally interpreted the flora's Ortega case to me that if you don't file even if your client has waived their rights it's inefficient like that's like it's not necessarily written anywhere but what's always been like traditional so you see somebody like. Thomason gorsuch being like this isn't written anywhere right. He waved it. He waved at what we're supposed to. We're supposed to assume that because the client or the attorney didn't file that that's deficient whereas not written right. Show me the text. Give me the book back. Where's the money you bring about? It's not there. So that's that's what I have. That's what I was so much that you that was a lot that you had this. I did this on the day leading up to me. Getting vote poisoning. We'll thank God. This is in the afternoon as apparently it was brewing along. But obviously I mean I do. I do think that you know. I mean Kavanagh's fifty five years old. He's he's he's there for a while but for a while Such a shame. I do think that we will see him as solidifying like who he feel like He. Nobody knows who he is as justice yet because quite simply he's just been there a very short amount of time. But I think once we start seeing more landmark key cases which we do have decisions of those coming up in the spring of this year. You know a lot of very stressful decisions being made. I think we're gonNA start seeing where he actually falls in the line of lake liberal versus conservative like. I don't even think there is a in that test that I usually used to show how conservative versus how liberal people are. I don't think he's even bully on there yet. Because there's just not enough you can't tell you material but I do know that ninety four percent of the time he leans with Roberts which indicates a swing ish vote yet. But we'll see we'll see what he wants to swing on right good because that's also good anything you know like John. Donald Swing on pretty much kind of similar things. But what's Brett. Who Was Brat? Now we know but we don't know it's so much fun. Yeah Yeah I'd find out but that is that we did. We did it. You did it. I did it that I did it. Just as Cavanaugh. That is just as Brad Kavanagh. Yeah you know it's done it's done it's done is we. Have we have to into more? We have two more left Toledo and RPG. And you know what and then and then who. We're GONNA do people who are passed. I feel it'd be fun. I I would love to do a Sandra Day. O'connor oh hells yeah health to the Iowa. Hello John Marshall yes like let's go back expands of your. Yes as expand and cover other like famous senators of the past. I mean this is what I want to say. Call to action right here right now and this. This so troubling episode is that there's a figure you want us to cover. Let us know I to cover. Have WE HAVE DON? We've done episodes based on on listener requests before and Hell Hell. Yeah we'll do it again. I love covering individual people. Accept this one. I usually have a great time with it. There's somebody here like I want to know more about I'm GonNa Shah shouted to the rooftop by that. I mean tweeted Graham text me. I don't know I don't care. She'll respond even if you think is boring because what we found out his law. It's never named any topic to think Steven Briar Much. Very interesting shots of dark horse in this race. Very shocking shocking. And there's always stuff that you even if you think you know about a top. Don't you don't know I've been one word? Pirates PIRATES WHO are coming out of that we record. Oh my God yeah so yeah let us know because I always down like what do we have to? Do you know like all research. I'm not busy. Learn always but in the meantime guys thank you so much for listening to this episode I know it was tough and I hope that you learned something in that we all just sort of come together as a collective and say we will do better but we love you so much and if you liked what you heard you can find us on twitter and Instagram Act Lipschitz typical rate us. You can review us. You can subscribe to us. We love you so so much. We will see you say goodbye.