Amazing Creatures // Dr. Jane Goodall
Let me start by giving. You a good old chimpanzee greeting who. And that means this is me, this is Jane. Nine hundred sixty Dr Jane Goodall, walked into Gumbo stream national park in Tanzania and changed the world forever. Jane, Goodall, all blond and beautiful killing these in the wilds of Africa, Dr Goodall discovered chimpanzees used grass stems to help them hunt for termites, and as we all know now that they feel emotion and have distinct personalities. A research on chimpanzees ended perception of their interaction with the natural world and each other. She observed them behaving in familiar, human moods and challenge yourself to engage with them as fellow conscious beings. Not just scientific subjects. So what makes us human? And how can we both admire our unique gifts and not forget that we are just one small connected part of something vast and grant, we are part of this incredible animal kingdom, the more. We learn about it the more. We learn about our selves. And I'm sure you agree with me that anyone head and hard work in harmony, can we achieve our true human potential. And this is infinite potential, maybe explore what makes us conscious beings and white matters that we are. Today. Doctor Jane Goodall is the world's foremost expert and chimpanzees one of the most respected voices in the world. And she still woman on a mission as I learned in recent conversation. Dr Goodall has always approach things a little differently. My mother tells stories about when I was very small. I was four and a half. We lived in London that time not so many animals and mom took me for a holiday on a farm in the country. And it was really exciting. I can still remember meeting cows and pigs and and she face to face English press through. That's right. And I was given a job of collecting the hint sakes, so then picked around in the form yard. But there were about a no six or eight and houses where they slept at night with miss books around the age. So I would go around, and if there was an egg popped in my buzz gets the pearly began asking people, but we'll have the whole that the comes out 'cause I couldn't see a whole that big. Clearly, nobody told me so I still remember seeing this Brown hen going up into. A hen house. I must have filled. You know, she's going to. Cruel off to her. That was a mistake. She flew out this walks of presumably fear. And so my little four and a half year old mine must have no head will land kits dangerous place. But now, I'm on the part of discovery. So I went into an empty Heddon house. Waited quietly and the hen came in finally, am I still can see her rising little bit on her legs and this white slightly soft a coming out. Mum had been desperately looking for me. Nobody nura was they called the police. So you could imagine Howard. She was but when she saw the excited, it'll go rushing towards the house instead of how dare you golf without telling us, don't you dare do that. Again, she saw my shining eyes and sat down to hear the wonderful story of how hen lays in a. And the reason I tell that story isn't that the making of a little scientist curiosity asking questions not getting the right answer deciding defined outfield. Self making a mistake not giving up and learning patience. It was all their different kind of mother might have crushed that scientific curiosity, and I might not have done what I have done. Too long way from hence to primates and to me the chimpanzee which has maybe more than ninety percent of his genetic structure similar to ours. What was your first experience with a with the chimp running away from me? They'd never seen a white IPE before this was gonna be national park. It took a long time low to patients, but remember learned that in the hen house. And finally one of them had this beautiful white beard, and I called him David greybeard, and he began to let me get close. And it was David greybeard who gave me a very. What kind of moment to call it sort of not life changing, but something but. Made me realize this is going to be my life because he had just begun to allow me to actually follow him. And he was going through the forest, and I was going off to him. Then he went through thick tangle of detail. I lost him. And I find him another day. But when I finally got through he was sitting looking back, and it looked as though he was waiting for me. And maybe he was I don't know. So he was sitting is between us was a right bread palm nut, which they love. And so I picked it up and held it out to him on my hand, and he turned his face away. So I put my hand closer. And he reached out he took the not he dropped it. But very gently squeezed my fingers abets how chimpanzees reassure each other. So in that moment, we communicated in a way. Which must have predated human language. He was saying, thank you know, way in a way. Yes. Two chimps have guilt or shame or humiliation. Or now disgust. A frustration. I never totally sure about some of those emotions, you know, because it's very easy for us to say, well, we were in that situation would be feeling shame dog guilty. They are they learning the doing this is wrong because they being punished and therefore it's it's a confused. Pronunciation beer of some kind of social hierarchy goes ladder area on the males fight for it. And some of the ways that they posture and gesture swagger around reminds me so much of some politicians, and so it's very important for some males. Not all their different someone to get to the top. And some do it by using their intelligence. They find an ally. Either a convenient one of the time or maybe a permanent one like your brother, and they. Oh, knee Tekla, higher rank you in that allies, others just stole men and want to use their strength aggressive natures to get to the term those ones don't last as long as the intelligent ones, British Sooners, you introduced this hierarchy of social status with its humans primates. I think then there's the opportunity to evolve these emotions guilt shame mistrust and shila. They have those things just what does it mean when a chimp behaves asto his ashamed I don't exactly know haven't managed to get far into a chimps mind. But I'm people will you know to go away from chimps for moment. We had a dog home, and he knew it was bad to steal because he was punished for stealing. So sometimes we'd get back, and he wasn't visible anywhere. And we'd find him called up in a chair. And he had stolen a pack of food beheaded eaten it he was lying on it. So he knew it was wrong reeling guilty, and he was feeling guilty. So if dogs can of course, chimps. Rupert Sheldrick is a common friend of us, and Rupert goes onto even think that dogs have better normal psychic abilities that they can read your mind. Even you know, if a dog owner or the human companion of a dog is in London, and the dog is in Paris, and each his mind and wants to come home earlier the dog moves to the front of the house waits at the door as soon as the human companion has had an intention to return home. What's your opinion on all this? Well, the strangest one most fascinating to me was with this parrot colden key. See I heard there was psychic parrot, and this experiment with five envelopes with pictures in. Nobody knew the pictures. But what the pictures were except this one woman who didn't know anything about the parrot or anything. She just had to choose five pictures and put them in on loops. And as the Amy opens I on blowed key Seve's in another room. And I'd be that see you knows no way. He could. Yes, I agreed about it. But I've met the many times. I see. So as she opens the first one, it's a photograph of flowers strictly ones and Casey kind of Mering pretty flowers. Nice flowers. Then shoop the second one, which is a man on his cellphone, very clearly. What you say on you so phone the only mistake that he makes out of these five is of all the Q Leah picture of a man stepping out of a car, and he sort of half in half out and the word on the word is caused. So he supposed to say, but he doesn't he says what you doing with your head Patil hit back in. Why is this not a breakthrough revolutionary insight into the nature of consciousness? I think it is. And you know, I was told an notes for not scientific, and I shouldn't use anecdotes and to me, I think don't. So the breakthrough into the mind and dotes things which helps to understand sciences Viktor two million to make experiments, and then you tell the story right way doesn't the word wise in the world talking about it. I think sciences is very reluctant is going to be proved about twenty nine times. And yet scientists frequently get stuck on the assumptions, they do they do they don't like them challenged. So this distinction between pure instinct and riches plus away will and emotion, which is kind of survival. But also, there's an element, of empathy. What we humans would call compassion and love, but there's an element of that in all censh- and life. Are you kind of sympathetic to that worldview, you think that all centurions has some level of emotional consciousness? I think they do. And unfortunately, we say an element of aggression, and you know, the dark side of human nature, we see that you were one of the. The first to identify that the dark side of humans is also present and chimps do you. Remember the that in the early seventies? The subject of whether Puma NHS were born with a blank slate or they had inherited aggressive or other instincts, and it became a political issue. And I remember going to this big conference in I think, it was Paris, and about aggression, and when I talked about the aggression, the chimps people coach showed at me, and I was actually told that I should not talk about that. I should down play. Because then people might think that we humans have an aggressive instinct through. Of course, we do look around the world. But at that time soulages for trying to push it under the carpet. Luckily, you know, my mother taught me tab, the courage of my conviction and not to give in. Otherwise, I wouldn't have published any of that stuff. That insight is very helpful in understanding our own nature, but also the nature of life in general. And since the whole ecosystem is is a combination of the symbiosis and predation at the same time may we're all part of the food chain. But we also have a deep. Longing to understand our connection to all of life. I mean, that's one thing that humans. Really? Are in way, different from other species that requests in. Question this questions while we while we hear what is the meaning of my life. And then we tell stories we make them up. When we come back. We'll tell more stories with Dr Jane Goodall. Scf can be stressful between work family and everything in between. It's not always easy to find time for yourself. That's where talk space comes in talk. Space is therapy for how we live today talk space online therapy makes taking care of your mental health more affordable and convenient than ever before simply provide your preferences for therapy and talk space will match with one of your three thousand plus therapists, the very same day, send your therapist unlimited text ordeal picture of video messages from anywhere at anytime. No matter what you're going through. You're not alone talk space has more than three thousand licensed, therapists, who are experienced in addressing the challenges. We all face to match your perfect therapist for a fraction of the price of traditional therapy. Go to talk spe. Dot com. Make sure to use the code Deepak to get forty five dollars off your first month and Choya support for the show, that's Deepak and talk space dot com. Join more than one million people who feel happier with tok space. The fact that I'm speaking to you right now, and that you're listening, and hopefully understanding is pretty amazing. And while it connects us, some would say is what separates us humans from the rest of the animal kingdom, which is what I wanted to us. The gene good about. So this brings me to this question regarding language because deepest Dorian still us some of them that up until say fifty sixty thousand years ago, there were many species of humans, you know, Neanderthals and homo habilis actors on and on 'til one species. Sapienze us created a language for gossip and storytelling who started giving names to perceptual experience and calling them objects in when giving names to other animals. It's part of a story of. Every thing in creation, we've given the word too. But as soon as we start telling stories, then, you know, the more outrageous stories are we are the best species. And you know, we know how to love the more sophisticated those stories get the more. Actually, we lose our connection to the source of all existence in this is the fall from grace. And in this new dimensionality of experience, you kind of separated yourself from all that exists. I mean, I, you know, always amazed at how similar we are to Jim pansies, and for that matter other animals to in sharing emotions like, fair and pain and anger on things. Like that. But clearly we're different for the reasons that you've just been talking about. And so we developed this way of using words, and I'll talk so for the first time we could actually teach our children about things that would actually present because chimpanzees learn by observing. And so yes, they have a culture behavior Paul's from one generation to the next through observation imitation and practice, but you know, we can with words discuss the paused and tell stories about it, and perhaps make use of it chimpanzees certainly can make plans for the immediate future. But we can make plans to what we're going to do ten years ahead and most important of all we can discuss. So if we have a problem, we can bring people from different walks of life with different experiences to try and solve that problem. So it's an bizarre that the most intellectual creatures ever walked the planet is destroying it. So the home, but. It seems made as a disconnect between this extremely intellectual mind, the human heart, which is love and compassion in the wisdom tradition of the east this in sunscreen. There's a word called prog up rod which translated into English means the mistake of the intellect that the mistake of these lectures that we are separate from everything else and our children today. Look at look at them. I grew up in Brixton and cement and concrete, and they're on their little electronic gadgets, and they'll sit next to each other in a bus instead of talking the what's happening to us. Civilization. On a self destructive more anywhere destroying us. We are because we need the the planet. We need the natural world. And if we go undestroyed destroying the forest pollute in the oceans nulla rest of it. We will destroy ourselves. Bacteria reminding me something that I learnt recently have from some naturalists, and this is the phenomenon that now biology is exploring his what they call being grounded. So when you walk barefoot on the earth, or when you walk barefoot on the grass or on the beach, or even when you touch a tree you are electromagnetic Lee connected to the electromagnetic fields of the planet. And in a sense, you're re organizing a resetting your biological rhythms with the rhythms of nature. So this particular person was a naturalist with Stelling me that when animals get sick, or whatever they borrow themselves in the ground or sit in the. Ground until the recover. And so one of the things that's happened. With the modern society is a biology's out of sync with the biology of nature Sabih logical organism whether we like it or not it's a self-regulating biological phenomenon including the web of life, and I'm doing some research on this right now and looking at oh when people are grounded, even if I touch a tree, and you touch me and somebody else such you. We're all recent biological rhythms. I wonder what you think about this. Well, I think we have to add into this equation. The fact that you know, so much of what's out. There has been so polluted with chemicals in the ocean food, we eat it's very hard. You have to go quite far to get into sort of real untouched nature. And the real untouched nature is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. So I suppose in your research, you'll take into account the fight that because we developed electric city. We now don't have the sort of cycle at an animal will have where goes to see when it's darkness wakes up when it's light. But we pay no attention to that. Edison, invented the. But without it now. Well, we could do without. It's like, you know, we would what we're doing the planet. We could actually do without oil and gas. I mean, it would be very hard. Technologies already exist. He has to but but we could not do without water. Yes. And fresh water supplies are any danger. And, you know, something this is wonder, I don't if you can explain this. But I was in Bordeaux just recently on a climate change conference. And I was just thinking it was being translated you see bit by bit. So just thinking next I'm going to talk about water, and how if we lose our water, you know, that will be the next wars and the three big glass for the bottles on the table in front, and as I was thinking, this is what I'm going to talk about one of those bottles cracked down the water dropped onto the floor. So I've kept that bottle, and because to me it's incredibly symbolic to may symbols aquarium. So this brings actually a very important question that I want to ask you as a scientist without actually enraging current thinking on evolutionary biology. We a species that has evolved as a result of some direction by a deeper intelligence or consciousness that is in a way guiding de-evolution of species, I know, this would be very controversial and might enrage strict physically so materialists, but just seems to me the evolution is kind of directed in a way of more creativity. More questioning more. Inquiry and more even abstraction as we start to get into realms of thought from tools to now the internet now intergalactic space exploration doesn't seem all together. Random to me. I don't think for one single second. It's random at you know, when I was out in the rainforest and out in the rain for as your in the middle of an ecosystem where the interrelation of all things is so clear and each tiny little species has a role to play and it may seem insignificant. But if it disappears that can have ripple effect because maybe that was the main food source of some of the creature and so on and that can lead to ecosystem collapse losing one little species. You know, this is a very this thought that we are inter beings interest in this inter is in Buddhist terms that wall censh- and beings about of an infinite consciousness than that cinch in beings what recalled biological organisms? Are actually species of consciousness essential beings. And they're all part of this web of life. If you fiddle with even one little strand in the web, the whole web is affected. The weather's live we meddle with it to our peril. And we're already modeling onto too much. After the break. What happens when survival instincts of humans and chimps collide, stay with us. Robin Hood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. While other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every trade. 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There is an app I highly recommend which might help you to be more mindful every day. It's called blanket. St- blankets is the only app that takes the best key takeaways. The need to know information from thousands of nonfiction books and condenses them down into just fifteen minutes. So you can read or listen to with an audio feature. Blink makes it so easy to finish four books day while you're on the go, I like blankets because it opens a door for people who may be too busy with the stresses of life family and work to read everything they might want right now. For a limited time blankets has. A special offer just for our audience. Go blankets dot com slash infinite to start your free seven-day trial. That's blinking. I spelled B L I N K. I S T blinky dot com slash infinite to start your free seven-day trial. Again, that's B L I N K. I S T blinky dot com slash infinite. Now, let's return to our conversation reducted, Dr Jean Gudang. Chimps have a sense of humor. Do my favorite sense of humor, though, is coca the gorilla a signing gorilla and was a young woman and she went into the. Lab he was volunteering and she was told occupied cocoa while we prepare cocoa supper. So as CoCo had just learned all the colors, not just the primaries all of them. So this young woman is picking up something that's blue and something that screen, and then she picks up a white cloth and cocoa signs red. And the young woman says Okoko, you know, better than that what color is red. Coco if you don't tell me what color this is you have upper to supper coca reaches out takes the white cloth. Picks off a minute speck of red fluff and says red red red. The notion that humor can be shared language between humans and chimps made me think about another story. The story is about a man named Rick and a chimp named Joe Joe. And about the way we are instinctively connected to each other. And maybe at a very deep level to all living beings. Yes, Rick, Jo-jo bless your that story tell it, but I have to tell two stories opposite side of the spectrum. So Joe Joe was a chimpanzee who is NS zoo. And he had lived in that sue for many many years by himself. So he wasn't very good at interacting socially when they rescued him and put him with this group on an island chimps don't swim, and he still started getting on. But then one day a male is challenging him. Joe Joe's terrified, Andy. So frightening gets over the Varia. Into the deported beyond. Three times. He disappears under the surface. And then he's gone and keeper standing there just watching. And this one visitor goes the SU one day a year with his wife and kids he jumps. And he has the swim under the water. He gets hold of Joe Joe's body gets over that Barry out pushes Jo-jo into the closure and hear his wife screaming the children crying daddy. Daddy. Daddy. And he's coming back to join them. Three of the big males coming out, bristling hair and screaming big teeth show and. At the same time the banquets to sleep and Joe Joe sliding back into the water. And you see Rick standing with his hand on the railing looking up at his firmly looking at three males looking at Joe Joe. And he went back again he pushed Joe Joe Joe Joe not that. Although he seemed lifeless spits out some water finally grabs a tuft of grass, and we pushing manages to drag himself to safety three meals to sport. And so that evening Rica's interviewed on radio and asks why did you do it? You must have known. It was dangerous. And he said I happened to look in his eyes. And there was a message there. Won't anybody? Help me. So beautiful and the other story the other way around a chimpanzee or rescued from medical research put on an island in Florida with three females also rescued the male is known as old man young man employed to look after them told not to go near them. They hate people. They'll try to kill you. But he watches a baby is born. And Mark sees how old man loves baby and protects it from real imagined harm and Hsieh's food the hug each other and brazen kiss anything. I must develop a relationship with them. How can I look after them? Otherwise, anyhow, eventually, he takes a banana, and he goes to the island warm, these little pedal boats and one day, he does step on shoe. Nothing happens. One day. He does to grew moat. None and one day old man grooms him back and one day. He does to tickle in his tickly shoulder an old, man. Loves so everything's lovely females keep away but one day slips fold on his face babies near startles screams. The mother rushing to the rescue as mothers will bite Cinta marks. Mech? Feels the blood trip down the other two females running to support their friend one bites his wrist and won his leg. And he's looking up thinking how can I get away? Now, his Obermann thundering across the island with his lips punched in a furious scowl hell and things he thinks I heard his precious infant, and he prepared to die. But what does old man do? He drags these three females away keep some off Mark while he drags himself. Painfully to the boat. And I met Mark when he came out of hospital, and he said, Jane, the snow question Oldman saved my life. And to me, this is really symbolic because if a chimpanzee and one who's been harmed by people can help a human friend in time of need. Then surely we with our greater ability understanding can help others in that time of need. This every great stories of story. This the best love story of ever heard. You know that saying we have inherited the planet from our parents. We borrowed it from our children. But we haven't we stolen we still stealing their future. And so coming into the the reality of now and me on this planet, and is the repurpose am I here with the mission? It feels like it, and my mission seems to be to give people some hope because you don't have Hobo should you bother to do anything. So this is where you know, I'm concentrated on trying to save life life life. Are you hopeful that we will as a collective consciousness start to realize the so again start reversing some of the damage because technically speaking a lot of this is reversible. I think there's a growing awareness everywhere. But I think the one of the big problems is people feel hopeless and helpless. What can I do? And so the message is that every single day we live each one of us make some impact on the planet. And those of us fortunate enough to be not an extreme poverty. We have a choice as to what kind of difference again to make you know, if we think about the consequences of what we buy what did it come from? How is it made that it involve cruelty to animals child slave labor harm to the environment? Doctors no part of our. Conversation. Anyway, collective gun decision rate so becoming aware when moving in that direction. I think we have a window of time. We've got to do something about the unsustainable. Lifestyle of everybody else knew me, my lifestyle, isn't sustainable. We've got the crazy idea. You can have unlimited economic development on a planet of finite, natural resources. We have the tools, and it's about language the wave discuss language, and how the supports helped us develop an intellect but the other day when I was out in the forest this. I've never seen it before or cents. It was an amazing fly was most beautiful colors. It had golden has and it landed on my finger, and I was looking at it, and it's a fly. And I thought because we use that word fly where belittling something is a miracle of creation. And if we didn't know what to call it a fly. We would be utterly amazed. What is your hope for humanity? Now. I think my greatest hope is in the people because they are changing the world they are influencing their parents. And so the goal is a critical of young people who understand that. While we need money to live. We shouldn't live for money. That's when it goes wrong. Second reason for hope the sprain, which is beginning to come up with technology that will enable us to live in harmony and director own lives lead, a slight and ecological footprint as we can. The next resilience of nature. Many ecosystems that we destroyed given a chance can become beautiful again animals on the brink of extinction can be given Jones. And finally, the indomitable human spirit, the people who tackle the impossible. What seems impossible and we'll give up. The best example of that indomitable human spirit and reminded of phrase from the great Indian to gore. He said every child that is born is proof that God has not yet given up on humans. So many things that make us human. But part of what makes us human his dad, which is not human from wildlife to resources knocked. Jane Goodall has reminded us today that the natural world is intricately apart of who we are and likely in more ways than we can even fat. Listeners who are interested in supporting dodge Goodell's ongoing work should visit roots and shoots dot ahrq. Her youth service organization whose mission is to foster respect and compassion for all living things to promote understanding of all cultures and beliefs and to inspire each individual to take action to make the world a better place for people other animals and the environment in some small way. I think she's done that for all of us who had the pleasure of listening to today. I'm Deepak Chopra. Thank you for listening to infinite potential. If this episode connected with you, please share it with the friend and leave us comments. So we get to hear from you. In our next episode. We explore the mind a one of the great comedians of our day Russell brand. Now, it's time for our gratitude list, infinite potential is produced by David Shadrach Smith, and Julie mcgruder it's edited by Sam dingman and Andy Jaskiewicz. The audio engineer is Bob tabards. Caroline wrangle is our associate producer and Serena Regan is the coordinating producer. We especially thank our guess sponsors, interns, and everyone who has contributed to bring infinite potential to you our show is created and executive produced by David Chadwick Smith. Jan Cohen and me, I'm departure. Thank you for joining me.