Day 1,105: Senators finally get their say in the Trump impeachment trial
Good evening once again from our NBC. News headquarters here in New York as we begin the Eleventh Hour Day. Eleven hundred five of the trump administration that gives us two hundred seventy nine days to go until the twenty twenty presidential election indeed a new phase of the impeachment trial underway. Hey tonight senators questions. Read by the chief justice answered by the President's lawyers or house managers all the while the drama continues in the background around over a vote for witnesses. Here's how some of today's question. TIME WENT MR chief justice. I send a question to the desk counsel for the President as a matter of law. Does it matter if there was a quid pro quo. Is it true that quid pro quos. Those are often used in foreign policy and if a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest. That cannot be the kind of quid pro quo. That results in impeachment is the chief justice. I send a question to. That's the question is for the house managers. Would you please respond to the answer. That was just given by the President's council to we really you ready to say that that would be okay. At Barack Obama asked Medvedev to investigate his opponent and would withhold money from an ally that it needed to defend itself to get an investigation Mitt Romney. That's that's the parallel here. And if you say you can't hold the president accountable in an election. Shen year where they're trying to cheat in that election than you are giving them carte blanche so all pros are not the same some are legitimate Adam and some are corrupt. And you don't need to be mine reader to figure out which is which for one thing you can ask. John Bolton questioned to the desk on behalf of myself and Senator Senator Murkowski the question is counsel for the President before Vice President Biden formally entered the twenty two thousand presidential race in April Twenty nineteen did president trump ever mentioned joe or hunter Biden in connection with corruption in Ukraine to former Ukrainian president potter Shaneco or other a Ukrainian officials president trump's cabinet members or top aides or others. So I can't point to something in the record that shows president trump tom at an earlier time mentioning specifically something related to Joe or Hunter Bite. Senator Blumenthal asks did anyone in the White White House or outside the White House. Tell anyone in the White House. Counsel's Office that publication of the Bolton book would be politically problematic for the president. You know one from inside the White House or outside. The white has in told us that. The publication of the book would be problematic for the president I think we assume that Mr Bolton was disgruntled and we didn't expect he was going to be saying a lot of Nice things about the president but no one told. Is anything like that after a long day. Here for our leadoff discussion late on Wednesday night Michael Steele former chairman of the Republican a National Committee. Former lieutenant governor of Maryland he is host of the podcast that shares his name lethargic senior editor legal correspondent for slate where she also hosts host legal. PODCAST Mikus Jason Johnson politics editor over at the route and Andrew Weissmann former lead prosecutor during the Russia investigation. Working under special special counsel. Mueller also happens to be former general counsel the FBI working under then FBI Director Mueller during the Obama Presidency these days distinguished senior senior fellow at the Nyu School of law and with us from DC Shannon petty piece senior White House reporter for US NBC News Digital Good Evening. And welcome to you. All all Mr Chairman. The mantle falls to you to start us off your assessment of the party. You once chaired. Oh we get an hour. That's all the time time we have sorry. Start the drinks. Well you know. I think there were a number of times as evidenced by the clips that you showed. Where they they were little bit back with the heels and couldn't answer some very straight up important questions and that speaks to the underlying problem with their our case when when the matter we spend more time trying to go out and and bang the drum and bring in evidence and individuals who are irrelevant all of it to the process and not really focus on making the case for the President's innocence not once about today or any other time during this process if they said hey the guy didn't do it he just didn't do it and I don't know where they're getting their factual but here the facts to support that? So I think that's one side of it it but we know the rest of the story. The rest of the story is the fix is in The quota will come. There will be no more witnesses and there will be no new evidence that will be introduced. Because you're not going to get the fourth senator. You'll get that you need to get the three but that fourth senator is not gonNa land because because Mitt Mitch McConnell has such a tight grip on this process internally and is controlling those lovers in a way that he'll float some stuff out there to sort of get some wayward Fokker thinking about breaking from the pack. Which is what we've seen over the last twenty four hours and we've seen the smackdown on Fox Fox News and Breitbart and all these other places to calling out not just Bolton but anyone else Mitt Romney who's indicating they may otherwise new sissoko Shannon petty piece my favorite? GOP KNOWS COUNTER AB STODDARD is coming up later in our broadcast and I. I can't wait to take her pulse and get her poll of where she thinks. The Republicans are in your reporting this long day's journey in tonight. Where is is the optimism meter the pessimism meter among trump forces? So yesterday morning into the afternoon it looked like witnesses. This is where real possibility and folks I were talking to in the White House close to the White House sounded like they were really gearing up for a legal fight over executive privilege I I was talking to people about strategy around how they would block Bolton if he were to testify. The McConnell held a meeting with his flock after sure that it seemed like the tide started to turn. This is yesterday afternoon evening where people were saying Close to the White House. We're not throwing in the towel yet. We we know there are still maybe out there but we think we can still have the votes to block witnesses. And today there was definitely the sense that Witnesses witnesses that as Michael Steele was just saying they aren't going to get that fourth. Vote that you have a you have a collins. You have Romney possibly Murkowski's kind of on the fence wants but that Lamar Alexander for example is not coming over. That McConnell was able to tighten the ranks of behind the president and the threat of witnesses seems to have subsided cited today at least as our dialectic Democrats repeatedly seemed to be attaching their hopes and dreams to one John Roberts who literally and figuratively looms over the proceedings. What should the folks watching tonight know about the John Roberts which you know and you have covered for a living? He's exactly the John Roberts. I have covered. In fact he has made an utterly seamless transition from The Supreme Court to across the street at the Senate. He's twinkly he's affable. She is a good time keeper. I think we can say he's been very very very diligent about making sure that it's fair. But is he going to insert himself in the way that Salmon Chase inserted himself into the Andrew. Johnson impeachment trial. Is he going to be a tiebreaker. Is he going to be ruling on motions and material question now. He's going to do as much as he can to fade back and let this political process play out and really carefully preserved the integrity of the judicial branch of the Court of himself As the steward of the court but I think anyone who believed that he was going to play an outsized role in this particular proceeding. Doesn't know John Roberts. Despite the fact fact that he was mentioned easily fifty times today by mostly by house manage your speaking of the man sitting right behind them. Yeah I think that he if the sort of rubber hits the road and he has to rule on something. He will reluctantly do it. But he is under the best of circumstances not a grandiose his character he doesn't see himself as a great historical figure and I think he has at this point utter contempt for the political branches. The idea that any of the stink of this is GonNa come off on him or his court is Anathema so he will do everything he can famously his his mentor. The AH justice. He clerked for Rehnquist famously. Said I did nothing at all and I did it very well when he talked about the Clinton impeachment. I think you're GONNA see two point over that Jason Johnson for our viewers have come to know the likes of Michael Steele. Having watched all day. It is still gutting to hear the likes of Michael Steele. Say the fixes in. Yes what happens to your side. If the witness vote goes down if you have an acquittal perhaps all in time for the super ripple so I will say this I I am on the side of the American people and I'm on the side of history in history will look shamefully upon this. His rule look shamefully upon John. Roberts the way he sat there through this process. It's a city sort of fading in the back. It's like imagine being a restaurant where you're getting really terrible service and you keep saying out out loud man. If only the manager the manager reduce something and managers right there and he's watching as you're being misserved. Everything's coming out wrong. That is essentially what he's done. I I think the American people already know the fixes in the long term consequences of that are going to be increased cynicism about how this country works. The short short term consequences of it are a bunch of Republicans will probably keep their jobs by hugging on to Donald Trump. But I think that is a dangerous precedent to set. Because if we're only going to live our lives. Is it twenty five miles per hour for only going to live our lives by the next election cycle. We will be incapable. Even this government will be incapable of producing the kind of legislation in life. Life that Americans need so. That's the most disturbing part of this is such a bunch of short sighted people who don't recognize the history or the significance of what they're doing counselor. I need you you to speak about a fellow lawyer that would be professor Dershowitz. Who seemed if this person is correct in his argument to contend the president if he does something he or she does something illegal in service to his or her reelection it being in the public interest? It's not Eddie. Legal your swipe at his argument so the big picture that if the Senate actually agrees on that we are in so much trouble beyond just whether the Senate's GonNa flip or what's going to happen in the next election. What was said today today in Congress on the Senate floor of the United States of America is there is no difference between his personal interest and the state interest tryst and the argument was he is the state? I made this point earlier. which is that phrase? which is I am? The state comes from Louis the fourteenth that's tossed same Wa that was a despot that is being touted in the United States of America. The twenty first century on in Congress Congress and. What's outrageous is didn't have an uproar? You didn't have a whole bunch of questions saying that is absolutely anti-aesthetic to the constitution. Shen Senator Chris Murphy. Democrat of Connecticut has made himself available to us after the gavel senator. Where is your optimism? Awesome or pessimism meter as you look across the aisle. Do you see as many yes. Votes knowing it's a paltry few as many votes as you saw before proceedings got gaveled underway. Well importantly this was the first day in which she got to talk about John Bolton so the news broke yesterday day but today was the first day that the house managers could really put the pressure on House for the Senate Republicans to do what is right to follow their duty as constitutional officers and seek the truth and so I think that there were a lot of Republicans squirming in that chamber today as they saw what was going to be coming for them if they had to go back to their constituents and explain why they refuse to hear testimony from the most key individual available to testify as the president's role in this corruption option and so I don't know what the votes going to be witnesses until Friday. I think the pieces are moving every single day and every single hour of every single day but today was the day that the pressure really got put on Republicans in a big way. You say they're squirming and yet I've got the former party chair next to me who just said of McConnell's annals ability to whip his membership. The fix is in so I have to ask you a hypothetical if the witness vote goes down if this all goes down and is cleared cleared up and out of out of the Senate. Perhaps in time for Sunday's football game what are the consequences to you for the Senate for the country and for things like balance of power. Well I think there's going to be hell to pay both for those vote for this cover up but for our country free as well by essentially whitewashing the truth By turning the Senate trial in to just one big partisan cover up. I don't know that we'll ever be able to recover this obligation that this has but I don't know the Republicans are going to be able to explain this. I mean I think the president wants this this done by the state of the Union so he can engage in some big celebration. But that's not going to happen. Because eighty percent of the American public including lots of Donald Trump supporters. Don't believe this is a fair trial. Don't believe it's a real acquittal unless there are witnesses and the more we learn about John Bolton testimony and by the way we're GONNA learn a lot more about it they're going to be more leaks ahead of the release of the book and then when the book comes out we're going to know everything it's going to sour this process even more. It's going to cause even more Americans even those that might be willing to vote for Donald trump to feel very angry about the way that their constitution was abused. So I think we don't know. Aw everything about how this is going to play out but I guarantee you. It's going to be very bad politically. But very bad from a policy perspective for the country as well final question for our audience senator and remind those watching your personal history with Ukraine. Why this is a meaningful debate to you so I've been working on? US US Ukraine policy. For the better part of the decade I was there with John McCain during the revolution of dignity when the Soviet back to leader when the Russian leader was kicked out of that country and I was there just last fall when I told the president's Linski that he would damage the US Korean relationship if he got involved in an American and he told me in that meeting that he had no intention to get involved but he knew the damage that we've done to Ukraine if they got somehow integrated into the president's reelection effort and so this whole idea that the Republicans are trying to spread on the floor of the Senate. That is Alinsky fellow pressure. Why was there I heard him? Tell me and Senator Johnson how important it was for him to resist this pressure. He was this feeling it. He knew the damage that would be done to his country and now that story is out for all the year Senator Chris Murphy Democrat of Connecticut. Thank very much for coming to our camera after this long session today. Back to Shannon petty piece in Washington Shannon this morning because these days feel like years. I feel the need to remind everybody. It was Lindsey Graham. Who seemed to be saying publicly to the President Ixnay on the Bolton criticism because this plays into a plotline? You won't like Speak to what you've learned today on the White House from just the trunch of this that deals with John Bolton so there is definitely a twitter venting this morning about John Bolton. I talked to someone close to me at the president's thinking they said often he has to use twitter as a way to vent to get things off his chest and then once he does that he's able to to carry on with other business so they viewed this as a sort of venting air clearing that the president had to put out there about a about Bolton and then could move on he had a a big event at the White House today was the signing of the New Mexico Canada trade deal but even there you could tell impeachment was very much on his mind he he jokingly referenced a number of times that he had to be nice to the senators who are at this event and only the senators and he didn't need the the house members to be nice. It's them anymore because they didn't need their votes. He made an effort to give pens to all the senators again joking that he needed to have the senators on his side. So impeachment is clearly clearly on his mind he has a rally he's going to be giving tomorrow Thursday night where he'll get another opportunity to open up about this. And then of course the state of the Union so while even while the White House has tried to divert attention away from things like John Bolton with a trade deal signings or peace plan the president. Of course I can never stop himself from waiting into it. And that's something. We'll continue to the Intel process that is completely played out trust. You'll forgive my use of the term from British common. COMMON-LAW IXNAY was all in the course of telling a story Shannon Petty Peace. Only because you've been working on deadline all day. You are at long last allowed to go go our thanks as well. Everyone else on the panel staying with us yet another. US senator preparing to join us when our special coverage continues after this break. If you don't know your numbers you don't Know Your Business. 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Earn an Ukraine to the by the transcript. They WANNA move quickly the president from office or going inside impeachment with the reporters. NBC News Article Two inside impeachment by me. Steve Search Nail. Wherever you're you're listening in subscribed is there any precedent for this blanket? Refusal to cooperate and what are the consequences if the Senate Senate accepts this position here. President trump issued a blanket order directing the entire executive branch to withhold all documents and testimony from the House of Representatives. It was this order. was categorical is indiscriminate. Unprecedented that question in just read aloud by the chief justice was posed and ridden down on the card by our next guest joining us from Capitol Hill. Senator Chris Coons Democrat of Delaware. Who serves serves on Senate judiciary our panel also remains here with us in New York senator? You're a good nose counter to how many Republicans are yes votes in that chamber or do you think well the question. That's right in front of us. Now that we'll be working through and debating is how many might vote for witnesses. How many might say say we want a fair trial and in particular? We'd like to hear from John Bolton I think that is between three and five at this moment but frankly there is a bit of exhaustion setting in because of the ten hour day. We just had the ninety questions that we ground through. It has put a sharp focus on on areas that are unresolved and we're having an eyewitness someone who was literally in the room where it happened come forward and answer. The question did president and trump actually order withholding this vitally needed aid Ukraine in order to leverage it for his own political benefit. If we could have an answer to that from John Bolton I I think that would go a long way towards helping the American people and the members of the Senate feel that this was an actual fair trump. Of course then you had a guy with a DA after his name Senator Manchin from your caucus say this morning. It started off the the news cycle that he wouldn't mind hearing from hundred Biden so so the big question has been at the end of the day. We'll Republicans especially those in the moderate sort. Actually want to take that vote. I doubt they would because frankly he's not relevant. What we've seen over and over today is ways in which in the steadily building pressure for testimony by John Bolton or documents like the notes have ambassador Taylor would actually answer the question? What happened happened in the White House? And what did the president do. When president trump issued an order to freeze and withhold aid from Ukraine he didn't call anyone named Biden? There was has no one named Biden working for him in the White House. He discussed it with Mick Mulvaney And with John Bolton and there are two other folks that we've been trying to to get in front of the Senate who work also in the White House who carry these orders out. We don't have the documents and we don't have the witnesses. I'm not sure why. My colleague Confronts Senator Manchin would think it'd be constructive or relevant to go outside and bring in outside concerns which frankly Republicans try pretty hard on the floor of the Senate to bring up over and over today but no matter how many times they bring up the name Biden that doesn't make that directly relevant to the issues that that are in front of us. What's most relevant is getting to the bottom of what the president did and didn't do and frankly Brian very striking development? Just in the last day was was that the former chief of staff General John Kelly publicly said I believe John Bolton that suggests that he was in the room as chief of staff for similar incidents where he saw president trump order things or make decisions about things that should trouble the American people and make us in the Senate here want to hear from relevant witnesses. Senator Chris Coon Democrat of Delaware. Thank you very much senator. COONS for joining US tonight after again. A very very long day. Yeah Thank you Jason. It occurred to us today. On the Bolton question you can pre-order his testimony. We went on Amazon on and the hardcover I think is twenty nine twenty five yes there. It is publication date. It's out march seventeenth. Lot of the story is going to be right in that that book. So what will cory Gardner have to say to the people of a state like. Oh I don't know Colorado when we're able to thumb through that right and see what the potential testimony could have been what he will say that the People Colorado is trump trump trump trump trump back. Because that's that's literally his. Yeah exactly. It's a former pig Latin. So that's that's his only way of operating. He said that Donald Trump is going to be my a protective shield. And despite the fact that you have not just bulletin but there there are other people who are corroborating this he he. He spoke to the head of the form relations committee in the House and say hey you should investigate this more. What more people are coming through in adding evidence and adding information to what Donald Trump is being impeached about in the senators who've decided whether it's MC sally whether it's collins anyone on who was a part of this cover up and conspiracy is going to have to answer the public but but I want to put this out there because this this goes to what we mentioned earlier if the president does something in his own interest it basically please take a plot from house of cards if the president decides of trump decides two weeks before the election to talk to Disentis and Florida and and talk to Republican governor of Ohio? So you know what. Let's just shutdown voting booths. I think the corona virus might get it from a public interest. We should have people voting and all these locations. It's dangerous what do we do. Then this is this is literally what they're talking about. If you don't stop this president from cheating now he will cheat again. And that's what I think is so disturbing about the Cory Gardner. I was in college and everybody else in the Senate who sees a man who clearly says I will cheat again and they do nothing about what sad about that folks in my party would go. Oh he would would never do that. That's just that's just liberal hogwash. You're just making that Samaria. What's the old moving bar of? He would never do that here with. I think the most important something that came out of today's conversation or QNA was the fact that White House counsel in their official capacity as White House counsel and certainly as counsel for the president look the country in the eye and said that any candidate AH canal go to a foreign government and say if you've got dirt on my opponent let me have it because like in the president's incidents where it's well I think that that's good information so all you senators out there get ready you just opened up a Pandora's box of hell because coming up in your next this fall a number of you are going to be up and campaigns and where that information comes. We'd want to hear you complain. We don't WanNa hear you moan and ingrown just suck it up and suck it down because you got to live with what you're doing tonight because that's that's the heart of this thing Andrew so little inside baseball -aseball someone who is former DJ. The fact that it was White House counsel is really interesting because this issue that the personal is political calling the political. It's personal that you're the president is. The state is embodied in the presidential team. That's arguing this is one thing to have Dershowitz and private counsel council. Make these arguments. Because that's what they do. That's what private counsel space. Jeju is shocking as somebody. Who's been in the Department of Justice for years to see people? Who are you're paid by the public? These are public officers arguing. Not just the half of the White House in the White House is interest. That would be fine but to me making arguments that are so flatly contradicted by the law. That no responsible public servant would be making that and that's because there is absolutely no daylight between clean White House counsel and and private counsel which is a wall that when Don mcgann was there you saw there but that's completely gone very beginning any of this and for those who enjoy citing story to see says law can last a long time arguments that form predicates can last I good longtime and leave a mark. I think to me the staggering shift that I saw today that I I'm still trying to sort of take in is is all due respect to the senators. We didn't talk about John Bolton today today. We stopped talking about John Bolton because the response from the president's lawyers was we don't need to hear what he has to say because whatever he has to say whatever. The president did was legal. That's what changed today. Quid pro quo is legal. Doing whatever you want in your own interest is legal conflating the interests of you as a candidate and the country is legal. All of that is okay and I think if you and it goes to Andrew's point the minute you've it just accepted that all of that is the same thing. We don't need to hear from John Bolton they're saying because he's just going to confirm something that we all agree even if it happened. It's completely permissible. Holy cow that as a precedent going forward that is bone chilling. That is probably where we you should end this particular discussion enough for tonight. Our thanks to Michael Steel today Olympic to Jason Johnson to Andrew Weissmann. It's been it's been a day. Thank you gang coming up the Senate's. QNA puts the squeeze on Democrats with time running out. Let's not forget in and I awoke the first contest of the political season. That when we come back a lot of what the Democrats had been raising alleging an illegal quid. Pro Quo was not in fact. Backed up by the transcript gripped quid. Pro Quo doesn't matter. It's a red herring. It doesn't matter. If there was a quid pro quo or not. The reason is a president is always justified. Justified and in fact has a responsibility to investigate credible evidence of corruption. Note that just over three months ago senator. Ted Cruz himself characterized the potential quid pro quo as illegal but Ted Cruz as we first learned after he was savaged by Donald Trump during during the campaign is capable of rapid change. What remains to be seen as how a no vote on? Witnesses will affect those running in twenty twenty with an r after their names with us for more Ab stoddard associate editor and columnist for real clear politics and Mike Murphy. Republican strategist and and codirector of the Center for the political future at the University of Southern California. But I'm looking forward to this segment talking to you both good evening and welcome to you. Both Breath A. B.. We had you on with your list of a dozen senators to watch your among the best nose counters especially in that party especially among the vulnerable ours up for reelection. Where do you put as of tonight? The votes for witnesses. Well I think that it's it remains volatile as we listen to everyone asking answering questions Sion's today what everyone who's following this closely was thinking about was when John Bolton got a tweet announcement interviews sixty minutes or something to circumvent with the White House is trying to do to block book so much can change between now and the vote but Mitch McConnell's calculation has to take into account that the senators up for reelection election in Colorado North Carolina and Arizona. Told everyone at the lunch yesterday. They were in a panic. They don't want witnesses. They don't WanNA dragged out. They want this to end. That doesn't mean witnesses not the right way to hold his Senate majority. That's what the Wall Street Journal editorial told him yesterday. And although the focus remains on Lamar Alexander as this one institutionalists who could join the free riders like Mitt Romney and Lisa Murkowski. There is certainly other people. Mike Enzi and Pat Roberts also retiring who Mitch McConnell could bring in to join with Lamar Alexander Murkowski and Romney. And then Susan Collins wouldn't be the first vote in order to be able to say they approved of witnesses. Because they know John Bolton's going to say is going to damage their campaigns hanes and that way they had a fair process and then they vote to acquit. It's a better way to protect his Senate majority than allowing these people to go out and say no. I need to shut it down right now. The outcome should not determine the process that in itself could damage their majority and produce a democratic Senate next year. What's the numeric the chances of what you just described actually happening well? It's a long time between now and Friday. It's slim I'm just saying the vote. The votes are there Mitch. McConnell if he decides much to trump's unhappiness that witnesses are necessary to tell the voting public. We had a fair trial. Like I said I I know the votes and I just listed them that he could pull without making Martha Rhythm. Exceleye vote for witnesses and so it's a way of of having his cake and eating it too slim shot but it would be strategic and it would get the job done then they go onto all acquit fascinating. Mike Murphy the Business Card that says minority leader is just not as impressive. Best one that says Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell has grown to love handing out the latter. Is this gonNA come down to. Would you want to be Donald Trump's best friend or continue as majority leader. Yeah I think McConnell in the end will do the most pragmatic everything he can to save the majority and there is a bit of a debate. AB alluded to it. One theory was Cory Gardner. One of those endangered senators in Colorado. Argue argued was shut at this thing down quickly. The problem is the only threat of hope somebody like that. Has Bad trump state. I trump is not a shield in Colorado. A shield of trump is the shield of Balsa wood democratic state so he needs to say it was legit trial and then exonerated the president well. It's not a legit trial. You suppress witnesses. So the fact we know right now is Mitch. McConnell the best boat counter in the Senate does not have enough to shutdown witnesses. That could change the pressures on but knowing Mitch. He's a pretty good three dimensional chess player so I think if they get to the four which they could the three that were mentioned. Maybe Lamar Mar.. Then others may pile on to take the political cover of look. Hey I voted for a fair trial. We let the Democrats take the great trader Bolton and smear the president but you know we heard it all and it was not up. He was acquitted now. We go fight it on the election and by the way the Democrats wouldn't let Joe Biden in there so then they get to go on offense on witnesses so Mitch I think will either if he thinks he can hold it off the will but if not expect a big move to shove a lot of chips in here and make it bolden but whereas Biden Haydn to give the Republicans bloody shirts wave about Joe Biden. Particular does well on Monday and becomes the clear front runner in the democratic contests. Abe Can you just normal in los up help us find true north again and remind our viewers. How crazy it is that in twenty twenty? We're having a conversation about John. John Bolton's a great liberal hope right. This is extraordinary. John Bolton is tight with Ted Cruz. He's tied with Mitt Romney. He's tight with Mitch McConnell. They all he has the respect of all of them in the in the Senate Conference Republican Conference. This is a very hard box to be when they no. He's a truth teller. They know the president lies constantly an compulsively and they know that he's an `institutionalised and and what he's doing is brave because he probably is going to end any prospects of working again in Republican politics and so for them to go out and try. You know they're really wincing and trying not to trash them leaving it to Fox News but it is a very awkward position for them to be especially since we've seen to New York Times reports now indicating just just how damaging the revelations in the book are going to be so this is. This is not fun and I've I've just really imagined the phone conversations. These last few months Let alone the wild one between John Bolton and Eliot Engel the Jimmy Carter Chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee when he basically smoked Out Rudy and trump to a democratic chairman but What these conversations must be like them just hoping they don't have to in the end be mad at his book revelations Sion's because He has definitely earned their respect and they know that he's doing it for patriotic reasons. And that's why John. Kelly said he believed him and not the President Mike Murphy. I hate to involve another party in this conversation. But where do you put Iowa which as we recall is coming up just Monday night. Well you know we're all dictate to the polls like heroin. The thing to remember is these polls are done now in a combination of Internet polling and telephone calls and the hardest thing to do in Iowa right now. It get anybody to answer the phone because they've got zillions of Hey. Don't forget to turn out to our meeting for the caucus calls going on. But the data does show the Bernie Sanders has profited profited from Elizabeth Warren's decline. I don't know which of the four are going to finish at the top but I think the top two at this point looks pretty likely to be Bernie and somebody I I also think and this'll be a big thing on election night we're going to be reporting the raw vote like a primary not just delegates formula to get to the delegates. They're more important to get nominated donated but to own the news coverage raw vote counts. And that's where Bernie has a slight advantage in college towns. He may have huge numbers of people show up for relatively actively few delegates awarded but he could win and raw numbers the combat night. And that'll be the story so I think it'll be burning in somebody and will that's somebody being anti Bernie like Biden Leiden or a Buddha judge or would it be Elizabeth Warren up there with him where we're going to know a lot about the democratic rates Tuesday. AB and forty five seconds of brilliance has your view of Bernie's potential electability changed one iota. And on the he's electable but I think that he has mice right he's taken. Elizabeth Warns Vote. He's profited offended off that. That's good for him. He's consolidating it. We just have to see if the moderate wing is as strong as they've been saying they all the last few months to Ab stoddard. And Mike Murphy might be Just go ahead Mike. No this quickly. There's this Republican bubble that Bernie can't be elected and I think he's risky. But that's what they said about an actor name Reagan and a reality show host named trump in the world we are in now with grievance candidates. I think it is not impossible. Bernie centers could win a general election. All right you leave us thinking as you often do Mike Murphy. Ab Thank you. This is exactly why we wanted to have you both on for this conversation conversation. Another break for us more of our special coverage coming up next. This is an incredibly important decision to the country. And the idea that we're not gonNA GONNA do it because we wanted this trial over by the Super Bowl by the state of the Union. You know we're just tired of it I I just I can't imagine that Twenty years from now people are going to look back and say yeah. I didn't really want to hang around an extra week. That was a good reason to vote to get it over with I just I I can't. I can't accept that John. Bolton has now thrown a wrench into trump's impeachment trial which has been a major topic of discussion amongst trump's most trusted advisers Fox News. Now what's interesting. Is that not too long ago. John Bolton was clearly part of the Fox family joining us now Fox News contributor former. US Ambassador to the UN. John Bolton who better to bring in the American enterprise it's skull ambassador busted John. Bolton Ambassador Bolton Dec- you good morning to you good evening ambassador. Merry Christmas we love seeing each and every day ambassador. John Bald is being walked to the studio by standpoint. The third period take a look. John Bolton Lifelong Lifelong Republican former Fox News on air contributor may not find the welcome to be quite as warm the next time. He appears on Fox News. I think John Bolton is a disgruntled very angry fired employee who now stands to make millions of dollars testimony. I'm not today recognizing ising the guy that I thought I knew John. Bolton himself has been reduced to a tool for the radical Muslims and the deep state. Somebody's trying to increase book sales. The Wall Street Three Journal told the John Bolton. Won't you tell us what you know. What's on your mind so John? You've kind of thrown the country into a ditch. Here next up we recap everything. You may have missed on another long day's journey into tonight a historic day in Washington when our special coverage continues use the president's now former chief of staff general. Kelly doesn't believe the president of the United States he believes John Bolton Alta. Can everybody be disgruntled. Can it all be a matter of bias so you want to be present. I've watched many candidates for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it paying for this microphone. My podcast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners from the many losers lives and the dream shall never die. So you WANNA be President with Chris Matthews and M._S._N._B._C.. PODCAST searched now wherever you're listening and subscribe. I two episodes available now.