Docs Dial Reps - Julia Greenspan
Welcome to the dock style reps podcast where we talked with medical device sales reps about how they got started how to support docs and tales from the or. If you're interested in asking a question on the show please email info at dock. Style DOT COM. Welcome to the dock style podcast. I'm your host nate. Darling we're here. Today with Julia Greenspan a super experienced device. Professional would stryker now. Julia serves as the West area. Education Specialist Teeny as senior Orthopedic Trauma Consultant Julia. It is great to have you on the show. We're excited to learn about what is life in the real world. Oh are from the perspective of a female in the device industry are thank you for having me awesome. So let's let's start at the beginning. Why did you get into medical? I was super lucky home. I was you know right place right time. Right attitude As kind of my favorite way to put it so I started in high school Sort OF IN A. There's a program that we had for students who wanted Um and there was an rn. Running the program. I was super lucky to have that in Oakland California and I quickly learned that most kids were using it to ditch school but I was one of the year I was one of the few very interested I wanted to go to medical school. And I didn't WANNA I was Gonna be on my art and so I didn't want to go through all the time and energy and expense if I couldn't handle it and so I looked into the program and it turned out. I was the only one who actually cared about where we've played And so the operating room was actually an option so I started in sterile processing at fifteen And I was very very lucky. I had some people there who are really rooting for me. And so instead of staying the two hours that I was required I wound up quickly seeing that like if I just didn't extra four or whatever I became quickly one of the staff there and then I got hired on While I went to college I stayed. There is a surgical technology and then I just graduated. Uc Davis and I got approach places. These trauma just finished Tibia Nail and the record asking me. Hey degree and I said yeah I just got it You know Kinda starting school and he said well if you ever want to think about a medical device And I still remember looking at him. Brian Murray Amazing Guy. And saying I don't know what you do your magical creature. Who Comes in here children? What to do? And you leave but beyond that I have no clue and so he kinda giggled. Whatever give it a shot and so I kinda went down the rabbit hole and I wound up getting a position with some trauma in Oakland under like the godfather of something's trauma and the bay area so I got really lucky. His name is Jay Wizner. He's a legend eleven. I mean he's like my second God And so I worked you know for since these for almost a decade and then went back to surgical technology for a couple of years and then the Lakers so pretty crazy like right place right time sort of situation for me. Surgical technicians assist surgeons and other medical professionals in hospital operating rooms and similar environments chiefly. They prepare patients rooms and equipment for pending surgical procedures. They also assist during those procedures. As part of a team of operating room professionals. Many successful medical device reps started out as surgical technologists absolutely so in terms. So that. That's how you did it. But what was what was the motivating factor behind it to begin with. Why did you want to get into medical? You'd mentioned going to medical school may be what was what was the drive behind all of that at that time you know. I had friends that were also applying for medical school or looking into it and the expenses pretty intense so I even have a friend. Now you know she's out finisher obgyn residency and she's got four hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt. And so I was looking at medical device and after that interview with these and met J. I was like wait a minute. Let me get this straight so I can continually learn for the rest of my career. I just I get paid to go to industry meetings. I get paid to see lectures. I will get to specialize in a field and then I'm like I don't have to pay for it was it was pretty gobsmacked when I realized I don't know the opportunity that was in front of me and so I figured if I don't like it I can always go back to school and if I do like it then I made probably one of the best financial decisions while still getting the satisfaction of getting specialized in a really interesting field has Ortho was always made. I love And specifically Ortho trauma so it was a pretty perfect fit I couldn't pass it up and it's proved very like correct for my personality. I really the the constant learning part of it has has not failed me now. You mentioned you. You got your first opportunity out of school in Oakland. What was that initial experience like for you? Yeah I think I was very fortunate that since I grew up in the. Or 'cause I mean by the time Got Barrett Twenty Four. I'd already been in the operating room for seven years. I I knew the the culture and I think when new reps come and it can be really difficult because they don't understand the culture of the lar. And so for me. That was not so much of a leak. Tell you the hardest thing was not scrubbing in Anyone who has been part of the team or has ever been a surgical technologist And all of a sudden being told don't touch anything blue and did you sign in Is Incredibly hard. 'cause he realized okay. That's now outside my scope of practice and that adjustment for me was difficult and it's still difficult You know I still miss it so I go and medical mission so that Hart an Orthopedic Trauma. Sales representative is primarily responsible for providing technical advice to customers to help achieve the sales directives in assigned geography as a trauma sales representative. You work with a high degree of intensity and commitment to sell orthopedic trauma products that meet the need of the Orthopedic Trauma Surgeon in that. First Opportunity. What did you learn man so so so much I think Even searchable text. But I thought you now nurses that I talked to you now. I think that they don't quite realize just how much goes into making a case. Go well You know you have to be incredibly detail oriented to be successful and you have to truly care about your patient your surgeon and your staff and how the case goes and in order to make that happen sometime. Great efforts taken so for instance if a surgeon called me When I was a Cynthia's and they'd say hey evil rink late well at the time. That was a very. You know. Sort of niche. That wasn't really common in our area. I would just say sure. I'll have there tomorrow and what that meant was I was saying. Sure dropping the phone texting a million people trying to find the plate driving to Sacramento. Which ones you know a two hour schlep getting the plate driving to the hospital minutes? This whole back end process that I can either tell the surgeon. Yes I'm going to have it Or No I can't get it but if I can. I'm not gonNA worry with logistics. It's my job to worry about the logistics and worn the hospital of my ETA. And all of that and back another through to go check. I didn't know I go to my case cartons. See that the loners were there or not there right right not you know. How do they get here? Is The trayful all these other questions? you know. All of a sudden were my responsibility. And so that's certainly huge huge learning experience for me. Now how did the experiences not first job help you get to the next step? Well I mean even the heyday Was you know a renowned way to learn how to do trauma The associate ships were two years. I was under an incredibly senior person. So I don't really fortunate in my position In that I had a really traditional very thorough so there was no hazing there was no like I mean I was in the. Or twenty four seven of course but You know sometimes. There are horror stories of associates that some companies are in some situations but wash my car I never had that. I had a very respectful senior. Who truly cared about me. Educational experience and growing Sort of my respect and my career so I got lucky there But I think that ultimately was really proving to myself that I had it in me to do And that may senior gave me the freedom to learn that about myself because I think when you get in a young associate sometimes you wonder. Gee I do this. This is a pretty adult job. This is a lot And Can I learn everything that I need to learn to do? Everything didn't need to do can I? You know Sort of foster might independence while keeping my patients safe. You know there's a lot that goes into those first couple years But if you're set up correctly I think that that really Enrich of your career. In a way that few other situations can so. That first job was paramount. But it's also 'cause I stuck it out. I think you to have that first experience. You need to be at your first company. A for as long as it's the right situation at least five years and I think that that is what made me a great rap. Was I have the time to get comfortable to fully sees end And that for me was really you know got with probably the best move I ever made was to really commit For almost a decade. And really get that you know that. Full experience the associate sales representative a SR actively assists more senior sales representatives and their day to day activities servicing surgeons and surgical facilities the SR covers cases daily deliveries returns inventory to and from surgical facilities and conduct sales activities at the direction of the more senior representatives. In the territory many device reps start as associates and it can be helpful to almost think of it as an apprenticeship usually an individual stays in this role for a minimum of one to two years. Now how did those experiences shape your view on device sales I say it's a mixed bag especially coming from someone in the operating room on the other side of the table right so I think I got very I got very frustrated when orthopedic trauma CEOS was mixed in with other divisions like Pharma gets wildly different. We have a totally different call scheduled at twenty four seven incredibly demanding I didn't do as many like Dora. Cold CEO calls as some other divisions either And I think for me. I felt like I felt very proud of being trauma. That was a badge that we were As a resource not just a rep and so you know for me. I think that that was probably one of the deciding factors to stay in trauma because it had a really clear ethical path for myself I never been like a car salesman tape like. He's my stove like I can't do that. I would see that sometimes and Kinda cringe And it's not to say that it's not a method you know it's definitely some people style and they have personality and like it actually works they get in front of people and they wind up being great But for me I really had to come from the education Standpoint of teach me everything. I WanNa know everything. Help me like help. You get there because I was managing residents So I needed to help them on their path as well and for me you know. I didn't notice it when I was a surgical tech I was I was just scrubbing in. The wreck was telling me what to do. I ain't no concept of the depth of knowledge And I gained a lot of respect for medical device after I became a rap. Because there's so much that we have to deal with and so much that we know that that has to be behind the scenes in order for it to function And so you never really. You don't know what you don't know And so I have high respect for medical device particularly traumas buying. Cmf Like in sports. It's a tough GIG now. Historically speaking medical device sales tend to be male dominated? Now do you see that? Changing at all Her tough question. I I would like to say yes. I think. There's more awareness I can say that for. Sure there is definitely more awareness with the need for diversity. Medical Device Particularly Female I don't necessarily see it changing as quickly as I'd like to. But that's not necessarily a function of the companies. I don't think I think some of that is a function of the job itself. But you're asking someone who does trauma and anyone who's in China will tell you. It's probably the most unforgiving schedule so if you're a woman. I had a pregnancy while at disease trauma and that is pretty. It's almost unheard of to have a pregnant female trauma and someone who actually come back to the job. very very very rare. I remember emailing the country trying to find all the female trauma up. I think I found thirteen Just to get their experiences of a pregnancy Only two of them had had a pregnancy and only one of them has stayed in trauma. So that's pretty bad if that's the entire country. I'm pleased that they're another woman. I can talk to you about this So you know because of that demanding schedule. I think that sometimes there is a you know. Either it's a lack of interest or a lack of sort of the social support to be able to have this job like I have to have a stay at home husband in order to have this job And that's pretty rare these days and so until I think that you know a woman gets supported aspects to be able to have that pager on You know the retention is not going to be high but that's not necessarily the fault of the company that's a function of the job. Did you know that striker created the striker women's network the S. W. N. is committed to encouraging a more inclusive work environment and providing a forum that offers women new opportunities to grow as professionals leaders and individuals S. W. N. Initiatives include a sale subcommittee. That is dedicated to attracting developing and retaining women in the salesforce and a mentor ship subcommittee which is focused on enriching mentorship programs across striker. Currently there are over fifteen hundred plus members across the globe. Way To go striker right now. I'm sort of expanding on that. Because you are one of the few women who've had that experience do you feel a sense of responsibility to be a leader for women coming along behind you in that aspect? Oh a hundred and ten percent Yes yes I actually often get get paying Especially from colleagues who may have a female rap in their branch you know. Sometimes as far forward as New York Gotten contacted from other countries of FEMALE TRAUMA REPS. Who were looking for some support I mean you know. And that's that's pretty impressive if I think that we're having to reach that far to get Not just a device but seasons advice and that. I think the difference is they're looking for someone who's been doing this long enough to actually offer a seasoned outlet gone. Hey He's interested you know. Here's my advice or here's how. I feel about that And you know Stryker completely lost their mind and they decided. I should be a part of the striker women's network which is really cool. I didn't really know that we had something like that until recently And so they decided I'd be the West area Sort of lead for that for that initiative which I think is great But it's also again you know. How do we make trauma? More accessible to females You know and that's going to be something that we look at over the next. You know five years. I'm sure now. What is it like being a female in an industry? That's historically had a lot more male reps than female If different and I felt and coach the mail manager about. Hey you know you might. You might have to coach your your female associates and your female rep a little bit differently In that I think we have to come from a different place. Where some male reps you know. They may be able to get away with a little bit more socializing or kind of buddy buddy You know sort of persona with their surgeons when they first start I think for me and for from most females we feel can not be successful. You really have to lead with her knowledge And it's not necessarily fair but I think it's a reality that we get judged Everybody gets touched when they first met. And we're not special but I think that females in particular you know sometimes from hospital staff sometimes surgeons themselves It just becomes a slightly more lenient. We're a little bit more under a microscope with do you know your product knowledge. Are you going to be responsive Because that's kind of you know we have to leave with that. We I think when you lead with Any kind of third of social You know charisma you have to be careful there to make sure it's not taking an advance or you know you don't WanNa be the DC girl I remember when I vary. I got hired one of my surgeons at my old hospital said Jules don't be the hot rap Peter Smart rat and it was a really weird thing to say to me. At the time I was very taken aback but as soon as I got into the industry I was like all man. That's what he meant And I think it's really critical. You know you have to get yourself in situations where they can see how much knowledge you have and left that lead. So they trust you now. How companies helped facilitate The role that you have or have they You mean a female trauma general. Yes as as clean. I think that basically what your experiences. Yeah I think that you know. Management can sort of recommend whoever they think might be appropriate for a position but at the end of the day when it comes to entry level. Like if this if this is sort of new listening and her a female and they're like how do I? How do I break into that? Or who facilitate that I have to everything I have to my to my old senior Jake Wizner You Know He. He was the one who green lighted Rian said. Hey you know she seems quick. Seems like you've got something He was the one who believed in me. And I think it really takes that person. Just say hey you know. They have something special in there You know and some companies have personality tests and strength finders that they use to try to like hone in on those personality qualities that might be successful. There's different ways to go about it But for me at the end of the day I think you have to have a personal champion? You know you have to have someone who's willing to mentor you and train you But I mean most companies. Now I think they really try to look for ways to routine male grabs It's just a difficult task and trauma. Sure now in terms of medical facilities have they helped facility the rule for you or not at all not really I in some ways but I think at the end of the day our not. They're concerned they then only care If it's a female or a male they just want they want the set sterile they want everything complete like you know they care about the logistics like is my patient taking care of is Is My staff treated with respect? I will say that some of my surgeons actually wound up the some of my biggest champions during pregnancy. You know I was fine. I was happy to go. Sixteen hours could be like Jubilo. Sit Down Fine what are you doing? Everything's okay And they wound up really through taking care of me And in that way I felt very protected and cared for by my surgeons. Kind of actually carrying weather may feature. It's always nice. Most people don't care But as far as like stop themselves I kind of like to gender out of it I don't want them thinking about me as a female or a male up. I want them to be like. Oh man our strike rep is awesome like long they see my jersey. You know I don't really want them. Being concerned about the politics are bad. Okay now talking about your current role. What is it like working for? Striker striker. Straighter is unexpected. I think coming in as a seasoned sort of You know traditional Cynthia Rep. I was incredibly. You know I drink the KOOL aid. I didn't like straker. At first I had spent a decade sort of working against them and I I had an interview and I met this incredible. Gm Who just totally time at around for me. It's like everybody. I met surprise me because they were exactly my type of person who was so funny. Every time I ran into somebody at you know through the striker give cross us. I was just constantly like turn it. I do WANNA light. He that much and I quickly found out. Okay this might be actually a really good move for me this after the JJ acquisition fees. And I think that you know it had It wasn't really where I wanted to be anymore and I think I definitely found a home and I think it goes to show that I did because I was shocked they you. They've really listened to me and they've really they've really made me feel supported and You know allowed me to start working until leadership which you know. I was not expecting. What does a striker trauma? Sales Rep look like hard working winners. You love driving in the Fast Lane and live out your mission to change lives by selling striker products. That are making healthcare. Better mission driven sales people. You live your work feeding off. The extreme demands of trauma not counting hours but rather lives impacted energetic achievers upbeat associates who love being busy and never hesitate to help a customer or team member when needed so. That's the good. What what if any are the bad aspects about the company that you with now or things that might need to be. I think that every company has things to work on You know I think for me. H is a a process of the medical industry. As a whole I think every single company working on leaning out their business and reps don't like that all the time but that's every company I've never I've never really seen it as a company specific issue. I think that the more that you know reimbursements go down for hospitals and we start to see you know a tougher and tougher contract negotiations but all trickle down so I don't think there's any specific negative I'm actually at the Home Office this week and So you're getting me on a very like sunny positive day because I went into her medical library which we actually have a physical medical library which I don't think anybody has one anymore and I saw like you know journals journal Joint Surgery from Nineteen fifty-nine sitting on the show. I'm in heaven so I you know right now. I don't know I don't think we face anymore. Negative but another company dog. Good right now getting the on the day where. I got to see that. So that's andy that's fantastic so this is a special day But let's talk about what a day to day. is like in your current role. Yeah so my current role is interesting. So you know I just transitioned into it You know specifically from the trauma outside so so as a trauma rapids a little bit different right. Because that's just your phone is constantly on twenty four seven running and gunning Even your text alerts or honor ringtone. You know 'cause everybody texts now including surgeons who were letting you know about urgent emergent cases and so that's you know you're always on call And I'm still on called because I'm still kind of connected to my old territory but it is nicer now. That actually have a team in place so if something comes up. I'm allowed to if I'M DEALING WITH AN EDUCATION ISSUE. I can now sort of paying my team. And they will take care of the emerging case. So that's kind of a sort of new for me Sort of being in a more of a position a level being able to delegate But there's also a function of having you know people who are competent So I love my team do anything But usually up early I am talking to the East Coast a lot. And they're three hours ahead so usually up by six. At least usually already you know going And then dealing with you know a lot of logistics for education on one side and then case logistics on the other so it's kind of a bizarre hybrid role but But I love it so trauma is you have. No you have no outlined. You have no day to day. It is you wake up. You see what happens? You might have kind of skeleton sort of backbone idea what your day looks like Whether it's responding to case coverage case logistics needs to be handled or you know calls that I have as far as education goes or meetings and then whatever happens. Change could change the entire day so you have to stay really flexible now. What is the most challenging part of the current role? You have I think for me it. Is You know kind of getting people to drink the KOOL aid about. Just how important. Medical Education is I'm technically you know handling some of the educational duties for ten states. And that's that's a big patch of dirt covering And I'm a true believer and Just how impactful. We are as an industry to connect people so connecting Resonance to attending outside of their residency. I think is really important getting them. Different ideas getting them to the right meeting. health and get different skill down to that might not be able to get their residency program And that's just for me like my ultimate mission is to get education in every spot that I can cover what's hard. I'll be absolute ten states absolutely So that being said what's next for you. Oh man just started in this new role. So that is that is going to public. Need busy for the next couple of years. At least I tend to like to hunker down and you know especially when I have a big project. I really want to work on it as much as Canon perfect. It usually takes me at least a few years to do that though. I see myself in this role for early next couple of years You know and I'm happy to do that. Ultimately like if going into leadership with something that you know they were looking at for me. Then I'd have to really think about that. I love staying connected to the field But I worry about that when it comes for now I'll just you know. Try to stay above water talent. So let's turn our focus a little bit for for a moment. What do you think is the key to being a good rep? Oh how to be a good rep. That is like the holy grail question. Yeah I think it's a constellation of factors and ultimately is going to be different for some people than others You know everyone has different skill sets that they can capitalize on. I think Staying in your strengths and planning to your strength is a really big one As you kind of work on the things that you need to improve on maybe if you hate public speaking like work on that quietly you know like always be looking to improve yourself But if you're a great public speaker than recognize that and use that get out there and talk to people and you know. Give morning in services and give lecture play those strengths and hone those skills. I'm you should always be looking for improvement Be One hundred percents. Thinking about what? The other person is stressing on We did this workshop a long time ago. I one of my favorite things that I took away from. That workshop was people's pressure sheets like all in any conversation whether it's negotiation or whether it's just an interaction with staff or your surgeon or the guy stocks you know whatever be thinking of the other person's pressure sheet. Were they thinking about? What are they stressing about? Is it money family? Are They not aware of this case or are they not educated enough about it and how that could be impacting their reactions? And what you can do to neutralize it That's been really big for me. I think always thinking of the other person's position and that's kept it from being A reactionary position for me because I think a lot of reps especially when they're young if they're not treated well at a hospital. His owned time to retreat. It as you know the out fighter can take a personally and say man Lee was really mean to me at the front desk And it's like yeah that's kind of part of the but also keep in mind her pressure she don't take it personally. Maybe she's having a terrible day like it's not about you That will keep you steady and able to perform at your highest level and not kind of dive into the gossip and dive into the dark side Because it's not gonNA help you. It's it's just GonNa make your date worse Also keep you focused. On the case like I can't stress enough focus on the case like if you're a new rep and let's say you have a tubular plateau. The next day you know focus on the case today before. Do you have the equipment? Don't trust other people to take the equipment to the hospital if you do have them take pictures ultimately paranoid about everything. That's going into that case and triple check. Everything steadier technique guide that he the clinical side You know do whatever you can soak up every bit of information and then when you're in the case stop put your phone down and focus I can't tell you how many times even as a surgical tech that I had rats trying to learn on the fly and it's hard and trauma because we don't always know about our cases but oftentimes you have enough time to pick someone's brain that you know who's been around longer than you or be able to look up something in a journal look at a text book To get more information but once you're in the room you have to be. You have to be in that room. It people see you on your phone. Even if we're doing business like maybe a traumatised came into another hospital and your team working to communicate. That's a really tough situation. You know maybe you can shoot off a quick text but you have to put it down and that's always a really hard moment for a wrap because everyone thinks you're on facebook or something it's like no no no. I cover other hospitals and something really important happened But you know you have to see how that looks from the outside so be focused and then follow up you know. I think it's always okay to talk to the surgeon later and say hey you know how their house Monday? Sh okay. How's she doing And Kerr show that you care about your patients because ultimately like you're responsible for their hardware and that is no small matter and I think treating it with respect acting interested learning constantly. Learning is the only way to stay really happy in the job And you need that to be functional because if you don't love it you're you're gonNA WANNA leave it. It's too hard of a job not to love it. One Who gained strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity right. Now when you are when you're working you prefer service or product when you're selling service. Okay now service. I think that in Orthopedic Trauma and a lot of companies now he'll products are becoming slightly more commodities. And you know I know that luckily I have. You know the fortune of of being the business a little bit longer I would always I would always like the prize. My service above everything else You know you're not going to necessarily use my this will play. You mean maybe it has something extra special that you know pick company Agriculture Company. Why But at the end of the day you can have the best hard rock planet and if the service is awful it doesn't matter you're GonNa get screw wrecks that aren't full. Maybe the plate that you used on Monday has not been restocked because the service is bad. And you don't have a Wednesday so it's kind of crazy. It's like the best service can still sell slightly. You know whatever less awesome eastern equipment but you can never have a strong commitment with horrible survey I would rather have my service absolutely down to a t and be honest about new products. And I'm very lucky. I have a great bag. I don't have anything to complain about But there's doubt who's like man I just don't know how I feel about. You know this product that we carry. We'll be honest about that if you're if you're wondering you're wondering and have an honest conversation and don't be afraid of that. I think that's what's so funny from times. People are afraid of like Oh. He can't know that I secretly heat. You know whatever your anger. It's like he totally wants to have that conversation like this habit. You know you'll learn something from it if anything. No you been good server. You might have the best quality product but that only gets you into the game even if you have a great product. It's impossible to win without great service and you probably covered a little bit of this in the key to being good rap but What do you think is the key to a long career and device sales? Oh it's getting harder and harder these days that it's so demanding but I really think you'd have to love you have to love your specialty There's people who say I want to get into medical device right and we'll medical devices as all encompassing Every specialty you imagine from Obgyn products to you know narrow You know biologic everything. So you really have to find your specialty I've had some people trying to break into the business. Who will contact me and say look. I'm trying to break into medical device. It's like you're thinking about this the wrong way to break into what specialty like. What piques your interest because I know for a fact that if I went to go I don't try to sell Davinci robot or something for me. Look for some people that is like the pinnacle under super excited and I think that the main thing for me is just not. It's just never really been my bag when I was scrubbing or even offered a position being offered an interview opportunity forgiven she. I'll just let robot cow you know But I know that about myself because I know that I wouldn't be passionate about it as I am about competing trauma key finding a niche finding people finding the topics that are gonNa make you stay late finding topics that are gonNA have like searching for white paper on Ovid That that is the key to the long career and golden your team. You have to love your team. You can weather a lot of storms if you have good people around you And that for me was absolutely critical. Got Very lucky. In every situation I had to have amazing people around me now. A lot of a lot of being in device sales is about relationships and building relationships. How do you engage with the new doctor? That's a good question Actually one that I get a fair amount from some sort of newer wraps tour like Nan and trying to get and find this guy And you know when I do what do I say and I think for me Honesty honesty is the route. And that's with any relationship personal or business You know you're not going to go up to someone on the street and try to like you know swindling and the hanging out with you know an ideal and like what are you interested in like you know what topics you know. Did you study like you? WanNa actually truly curious and interested in the personal view and that doesn't change when it comes to sales it's the same thing And I think being a hundred percent honest about your experience you know i. It's critical one of the ways that I think. Oh successful in forming relationships with recognizing particular surgeons who likes to teach and recognizing they were kindred spirit and okay I can ask him questions and just say I am so curious because I read this White Paper Day I want to get your take on it. and having meaningful conversation so it's not an excuse to get products in front of them. It's not an excuse to have a conversation. Actually curious and I am truly looking to them as a resource and then they would start to a community resource and it warms this symbiotic relationship between the two of you. Were you are truly helping each other in your careers and that is sort of like my idea of how to form a good relationship. Because I don't want IT TO BE PRODUCT BASE. I want that relationship to extend beyond product Because if you do the right thing the money will follow. That's what J wizner always told me And he's he's like just do thing. Don't worry about. Don't worry about a quarter right now. You're just starting out like you know we all think about it and it's always there but your surgeon should never see that stress on your face ever. That shouldn't ever enter your relationship with surgeon. In medical device sales it takes months maybe years to work with the customer and truly seconds to lose one now from a new relationship to existing relationships. How how do you maintain those relationships are a little bit different right I'm a little more formal. I'm a little more You know a little more careful until I really know someone Christianity especially the female on orthopedics has to be you know a little more caution can be you know Maybe making some of the the the bluer jokes with people. I don't know very well And so it's just a more formal service you know based resource based relationship And was surgeon to have known for a long time. Then obviously it's more casual. We can relax. You can talk to each other. We can giggle which in make fun of each other And then get right down to visit for. Release you Of course you know. And if it's the case that you know I still have to. You know we pull that back during the case because you have to be focused on the case no matter what but you know I go on a medical mission with some of my third jains and you know yeah is going to be slightly different relationship you bonded. We've been adventure together and Scrubbed in together And so it's a little bit more casual theory of just knocking around the holidays together. versus the new surgeon. So let's say for for instance you are someone who is looking for a new company to work for you transition from from your old company striker How do you? How do you go about that? Do you mean the like. How do we get the interview order? I look for new company. Let's let's say how do you get the interview You Know Lincoln's awesome I would say that lengthen is Probably one of the greatest resources for the people Including Me. I've made a lot of really NEAT CONNECTION. You know through that pathway Someone who interests me face your profile that I like like you know maybe bully great manager. you know I might reach? I just usually reach out to the manager personally I tend to go through recruiters. It's it's fine if it's like you have to really go from the outside But I tend to look for the people that I would be working directly under Because that matters more to me than almost unlike entire company culture like no no no who am I directly going to be under and do I believe in them And then from then if they respond to you you almost like K. Why should I work for you? You tell me why you're awesome and why should come over I think it's okay to have that mindset because of the big the big choice to move companies. Why is linked in important? Lincoln allows you to access important articles in posts which are relevant to you through your daily feed. It helps you develop a strong digital footprint which is essentially your personal brand it helps you research companies and industries find and apply for jobs and build a strong professional network if you were searching her job in medical device sales it is paramount to be on linked in. I think that's that's great advice and something. A lot of people might not have thought about So in terms of relationships. How do you manage your relationships with hospitals? Ooh hospitals are totally different animal than you're starting relationships I do a ton of the EU which are like Continuing Education Unit events for my staff. I think that you know you get from your stock what you put in and you know. It's not something that's going to be you know for the the super sale people out there. It's not like you're gonNA see a media our life from like one educational event But you're not trying to get that that is your fostering you know you're fostering sense of goodwill your Imparting knowledge which is critical for some of these people Thirty technologist and their current textbook. They don't actually go in-depth at all into orthopedics and so when you have these newer surgical taxes some of these newer. Rn's circulating you know you have to realize like nobody actually sat them down and explain some of the basics of Ortho so one of my least favorite moment. Because if I hear a competitive rapper someone around the kind of all that surgical-type with terrible or like oh she didn't know what she's doing. It's like well wait a minute. Go be part of the solution. Grab A whiteboard. Grab a pen and talk to them like we know so much and can impart so much knowledge That it only takes care basically. It is hard work. It Elbow Grease To actually do a lab or to DO MORNING TRAUMA. Talk or things like that and for me. That's how I engage the best staff because I love teaching and I think that having also been a surgical tech and you know sort of been one of the staff I can speak to both sides of the table Which I think is sort of you know. I think it's pretty critical when you're talking to those to those newer tax Who might not know about things like you know the little basics And so yeah for me. That's you know that's been my greatest win You know give them one hundred percent of your respect and if you see an issue you know we should not part of the problem and not even goes hostile people because we've all experienced it. There's sometimes hostile people at the front desk or whatever and again go back to that pressure. She like you have no idea what they dealt with that day. Okay how Kennedy part of your solution today because thinking about that in your head like what can I do to make this person's day that her and from there you know I I've never really had a bad experience after that once I get in with the staff and they know that I'm actually? There was her to make their day smoother And treat them well and set them up for success. Then you know it's usually actually a pretty fun at work so now turn turning to distributor relationships are. Are those a little bit different? How do you handle those Or direct for the most part So luckily I don't have to you know like I'm not part of a distributorship So Jean was my competition or military. That's a gift if the question is doesn't really apply. Then that's that's fine we can move ahead So what would be the one piece of advice? You'd give someone trying to break into the device sales industry and I think you you mentioned this a little bit earlier so I'm curious about the one piece that you would say. Focus know what you're going for and go after it You know don't take. Don't take the first job that has an opening just to get experience Sometimes you'll find yourself stuck with the wrong company for five years dot kind of attitude and that's really hard for people to hear because it's you know easy for you to say you know you've already found your job like I. I totally get it but like you're GonNa hate medical device if you don't focus on the passion that you have or that topic. That really really gets you excited. Just because he's settle for something different like. Oh well. I really wanted orthopedic trauma that I settled for. You know whatever. Obgyn ablation products or something and then all of a sudden five years later you're like Like medical device You know focus on what you want. You know like initially learn everything you about. Getting trauma talked orthopedic trauma wrapped. You know if you need to go to hospital hanging outside the waiting room you'll see rats all the time like talk to them. Hey question. This is awkward. I know I just met you but Connecticut question about your job You know like you can do that And I think to me. That's a little more effective to actually your your eventual happiness. Because you know you need to be happy. You're your worst day happy. You know just because you're new doesn't mean that you need to settle for something that you paid now. What does the future look like for device? Sales is a whole DC risk or do you see Opportunity Unity You know there's been. Some hospitals have attempted to go up with And I think it's been pretty quickly proven that we are absolutely critical to surgical sales. It's really important. We do Even if it's not always respected or not well understood. I think there's a lot of like education that needs to happen about what we actually do. and you know not all of us are making like you know seven figures Like that's not the case or all you know. We worked really hard and we. We had him court job I don't see medical device going down I just adapting and I think you're already seeing that you're seeing robotics you know happening in total joints and spine You know people are starting to adapt You know to the new billing practices where you know. It's definitely GonNa be easier fine and we're gonNA might be some you know things that might tweak a little bit in the future but I certainly don't see it going away You know I certainly wouldn't want it to. I think it's a really important important field. Expect change analyzed. The landscape take the opportunities. Stop being the Chesapeake. Become the player. It's your move Tony Robbins. All right. So we we've done all the heavy lifting now. It's time for the speed round. These do quick questions answers to wrap it up Do you consider success Related to lock or hard work. I'll say hard work. What career would you have chosen if not for device definitely orthopedic Trauma Surgeon? What is your favorite influence or book or Speaker for the industry? Oh there's this really great book about media it's not completely connected with great about trauma stewardship. it's actually about how to manage your Sort of emotions in stress while dealing with taking care of people in Trauma Yeah. Do you have a favorite medical facility that you've supported Highland Hospital in Oakland California hands down and finally what advice would give someone trying to get into the industry? Oh definitely work hard. Work Harder than anyone tells you. You have to read constantly and keep your Chin up all right. That'll that'll do it. Julia Greenspan's thank you for joining us today on the dock style. Podcast this is so much fun awesome. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the dock style reps podcast stay tuned for more episodes each month featuring how to get started in medical sales and tales from the. Or if you have questions or topics suggestions for the show please email INFO at dock style dot com. That's I N. F. O. T. O. C. S. D. A. L. DOT COM. Let us know what you think.