Trump lashes out on impeachment as 'crime' trial looms
Jatropha and we are covering a lot of stories on this holiday Friday night. Donald trump lashing out over impeachment again as we begin to see hints of his strategy for coping with the Senate trial plus a conservative lawyer. Says Rudy Giuliani must be called to testify in trump's trial. And then a a trump promise crumbles one of trump's own. Aides admits they are failing on the border wall. We will get to all of it but we want to begin tonight with the president of the United States Adrift As he confronts the biggest crisis of his presidency a looming impeachment trial in the Senate. Today trump attacking speaker Pelosi on what else but twitter accusing her of running unfair hearings claiming that the Senate trial will be rigged and arguing. There was no factual basis for impeachment. And he'll be exonerated. The president's own words asking a foreign country for dirt on the Biden's with the basis of this impeachment. And right now we. We don't have any details on how the Senate Child will look even though Mitch. McConnell is coming under fire from a fellow Republican senator for promising to coordinate with the White House. It's every step of the way but other Republicans say they don't want to hear the case at all. There's some Kerr's entitled to her opinion and McConnell was entitled to his well see the world from our own a belltower our share with you my opinion. And what's going on. It's very odd. Nine out of ten senators secretly. I don't want to hear the case. And the Kent there's lying now they're mope. Many of them are not going to say that. That's how they feel. And another trump trump ally today pushing back on one of the most fundamental parts of any trial witness testimony and the public at this point deserves to hear here from Mick Mulvaney and from Ambassador Bolton about what really happened. Do you want to hear what those two people know about this incident or does not interest issue. I have the transcript of the phone call between President Trump and presence alinsky. So I don't need somebody's thoughts and feelings and assumptions on that phone call. So if we have the primary source document the transcript. Why do all these other individuals to talk about their their perception of the call? Maybe for starters because he doesn't have the transcript. The White House actually said it is not a transcript of the phone. Call our panel tonight Mayawati former counsel to the mayor of New York City. Francesca Chambers White House correspondent for mcclatchy and former former Watergate special prosecutor. Jill wine banks great to have all three of you with us. I let me begin with you and start off by asking. You just reaction to what you're seeing play out here. Between what Lisa Murkowski Senator Lisa Murkowski said. And what Senator John Kennedy said about the competing perspectives on. What kind of child? They WANNA see. Well I think this is about whether or not you want the American people to hear the facts or not. It's a much more powerful thing to hear. Witnesses services. Tell the story out loud to see their faces to see their demeanor to see how they respond to questions. That's a very powerful awful Way of having a trial and it's the way it happens in our judicial system every single day this is really a political partisan fight about whether or not it's going to really demonstrate what the evidence is to the American people or hide the evidence because remember some of what what would chuck Schumer has asked for and what Nancy Pelosi is said really goes back to people who have first hand knowledge who were kept from Congress because of Donald Donald Trump's obstruction it was obstruction. We've seen no previous president. President assert this even the breaking news a week after Schumer asked ask for witnesses. One of the witnesses he asks for turns out had an email exchange ninety minutes after that July twenty fifth phone call saying thank President doesn't want to freeze this aid to Ukraine. And don't tell anybody I mean that's exactly the kind of thing that they've kept from Congress. I and they've kept more importantly from the American people and that is what despite is really about. It's US Francesco. Let's talk about defendant. Donald all trump and the state of mind that he is in somebody who covers the White House Day in and day out. He's obviously on vacation but tweeting up a storm. I believe by one count. Today thirty I five tweets or re tweets a lot of them targeted. Nancy Pelosi about impeachment. What kind of state of mind do you think he is in right now? Well when the president is down at Mar a lago. He's often surrounded by his close friends. Who usually agree with him on many of the things that he's saying so he's in sort of an echo chamber where he's putting things out there and they're saying I absolutely agree with you one hundred percent and what we've seen him on? Twitter is testing out different messaging strategies against Nancy Pelosi. He referred to whether or not. This is urgent and an urgent threat to national security. He said well. Maybe it's illegitimate in the first place. You can't even impeach me because there were no republicans who voted for it. So he's testing out very various messages that I think will play out as he returns to Washington DC as Congress returns to Washington. DC But one thing the White House is GonNa have to figure out. is how to respond to these. Senators like Lisa Murkowski. Because you don't WanNa take too heavy of a hand and have her more or upset with you and she's made it again clear that she is not really okay with that kind of outreach. Either from the White House between Mitch McConnell and probably wouldn't be okay with him reaching out to her but what do you do about them to shore up people like her and their support. Jill what do you think. The president's state of mind is these days the way he's been tweeting and lashing out at Nancy Pelosi about the impeachment process. I think it's pretty clear that he is distraught and disturbed that he sees the facts that are coming out and he doesn't like it but he's acting in a juvenile way attacking Nancy Pelosi in the lowest kind of way that he possibly could. It's really sad that they are at this point. And I think going back to what Maya said. It's so important for a fair trial to be held for Americans Ken's to be able to hear and for senators who want to vote on the evidence who wanted to actually act as a juror should and as their oath requires them them. They can't do that unless they hear the witnesses. And you cannot exonerate the president. You can't even remotely claim that he's exonerated. Unless you allow allow in the full evidence and then you have a full defense. He can call whoever he wants to say the opposite but unless he lets people come in who actually really have relevant firsthand knowledge. This is not something that is irrelevant. And as has been pointed out there is no transcript of the call. And what we've you've heard I would interpret one way and I'm sure that fax news interprets it completely differently so you do need some explanation and you need the time line. That's what's so important for the fact that ninety minutes after the call the money was held up by order of the president. That's an important fact. And if you don't let the MB witnessed testify. You can't get that on the record in the trial. The trial is the time for a fair rendition of facts on both sides. And you can't judge without that so let's get down to the facts. It's important to do that. And there's no reason to start a trial if you already know that the Defense is actually the Republican Party in the Senate and that they have no intention of listening to the truth. Let me play for you guys. These two Republican Groups that are running this ad in Maine. Watch Rudy Giuliani. You did ask Ukraine to look into JOE BY. Of course I did Mick Mulvaney it is a quid pro. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy. Mike POMPEO's Rudy Giuliani deliver Ukraine files to Mike Pompeo. John Bolt a Royer for John Bolton says it his client information on these meetings with Ukraine call Senator Collins and tell her these witnesses must testify all right so that was an ad Edwin by rule of law Republicans. Mind you think these types of ads especially when they're being targeted in a state like Maine going. After Susan Collins Senator Susan Collins who may be somewhat somewhat vulnerable in the two thousand election cycle do you think that could have an impact on her and other senators on the fence. Well it's possible because what's really happening in the Senate is. Senators are looking at their constituencies. They're not looking at the facts or the evidence they're looking at the people and the question is are the people concerned so to the extent that these ads are demonstrating that there are witnesses that Congress has not heard from that we have not heard from and that there are a real reasons. Real grounded reasons why we need to to understand all that happened here. I think it could be persuasive to some. Who Don't don't necessarily know because they're not following it day in day out like many of us are the all of the details that paint the picture that makes all of this so troubling teachable? Let me get your take on this from a democratic perspective. which is are the Democrats right now? Doing enough Either behind closed those doors from your reporting from what you're hearing in DC to try and reach across the aisle to put some type of pressure on the Lisa Murkowski's of the world or are they kind of letting the gop he sort this out a little bit on their own. Because I haven't really heard a lot of public statements from Democratic senators either praising Lisa Murkowski or criticizing those that have been silent beyond or besides like Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell's who are way out there on the right and the main reason for that is because DC is very very very quiet right now but some of them in there. Are you know about for the holidays. Maybe that's where that interview actually took. Yeah exactly and Mitch. McConnell is well last week had a press conference but lawmakers themselves are not walking the halls of Congress. Right now up to them and asking them what do you think about what Lisa ASCII said I do believe that we'll see more of that once they return and many of them in the Senate will be pressed not just her anyone who might be seen as being on the fence but also Democrats on their views on this. I think you'll hear a lot more about that. But Right Joe Mansions and put right but also again donald trump is also not in DC. Right now the White House is is is really quiet to. He's down there or you expecting that type of that type of campaign or that type of attack to ramp up in the new year as this thing gets going. This impeachment process gets going as it keeps going in the Senate. They're certainly there will be more advertising from various groups of course and especially aimed at but those those senators were in the area where they could go one way or the other dilemma. Get your thoughts on something. We were discussing briefly last night about witnesses. And obviously there's a big push here to get Witnesses I was talking to Nick Anchorman about it and he was saying you know if it was up to him he would call president trump as the first witness in this process. I'm curious to get your thoughts. How would you if you could call witnesses? How would you go about and who would you go about calling I to build your case? I think that I would go with the people who I expect it to. Actually tell the truth and that would not be president trump. Not expect him to be honest so I would go with someone like Duffy and find out about the time line and then I would talk to the witnesses who he also dealt with anybody he names I would call Mulvaney. Who's on tape saying what he said? Yes there's a quid pro quo. I would call Giuliani. Who May or may not tell the truth but who is on tape saying yes? I did that with the Ukrainians I would call Pompeo I would call Perry They were all directly involved in this and so we need to hear from all of them And then I would give the president a chance after the record is really established so that he's in a box because the facts are already out there but yes he should testify. I think the Republicans if they don't call him. How can they say that they've exonerated him? It's it's the witnesses. Witnesses said earlier it is a question of seeing their demeanor and judging their credibility. That's what juries do every day. And you can't do that by having having for example when we had muller into testify you didn't see the witnesses and that's been held up there's so many lawsuits right now. For example Don mcgann again right. If he's forced to testify about absolute immunity falls away. I'd wait for that decision. I'd wait for the tax decision. I'd wait for the grand jury. Six immaterial release. Which I believe will happen? I was GONNA say what you're saying is twenty twenty could be a decisive year in so many ways as with all these various legal processes Jill wine banks always a pleasure. Francesca chambers. Thank you very much as well. I'M GONNA ask stick around a little bit more. We got a lot more to talk about as we just mentioned in there. We'll democrats call Rudy Giuliani to testify. Trump's impeachment trial. Well at least one conservative lawyer says it could happen and it could sink. Donald Donald Trump plus the road to trump's historic impeachment. And what to expect in the weeks ahead and Mexico is definitely not paying for that wall now another stunning admission on trump's a signature campaign. Promise all of that plus something special at the very end of the show you do not want to miss that he'd need and you're watching the beat on. MSNBC welcome back. Everyone will the Democrats Democrats demand. That Rudy Giuliani testifying. Trump's impeachment trial of senator. Schumer is asking for Mick Mulvaney. John Bolton a few others maybe. Mike Pompeo the secretary of state but Giuliani surprisingly is not on that list. Hey Everyone Steve Kornacki here i WanNa tell you about an NBC news podcast. I'm hosting called article two inside impeachment. It's exclusively dedicated to bringing you the latest developments on the impeachment of president trump. I talked to NBC News reporters who are closest to the story to break down. What's new? What matters what it means for the twenty twenty election and our country new episodes drop every Monday Wednesday and Friday? Search now wherever You're listening to this podcast to subscribe for Free Twelve today. A conservative lawyer says the Democrats must call him in arguing their case demands it and the public certainly deserves. Serves it saying he is the main first hand witness orchestrating the execution of the quid pro quo policy Phillip. Roth argues that Giuliani. Would you have to testify if he is subpoenaed quote while the attorney client privilege might shield lawyers from testifying about certain conversations with their clients. It doesn't shield them from testifying mystifying. Full Stop neither the attorney client privilege or anything else which she'll Giuliani from testifying about his conversations with Gordon Samland John Bolton to Mulvaney or any other. US or even Ukrainian government official. He has spoken to so he would have to go under oath about this. was there a quid pro quo. The answer is yes. I followed the directions of the president. We did not want to work with Mr Giuliani. You simply put. We were playing the hand we were dealt. Mr Giuliani's requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a white White House visit for President Lansky. Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret. The attorney any ad that Giuliani's conversations with trump would not be fully protected. Either with me now. Former general counsel Robert Gates is back with us first of all let me get both of your your perspectives on this rubber. Let me begin with you. Do you think this is a good idea to call Rudy. Giuliani are to subpoena him to testify in any impeachment process. Yes I do. I think it's a great idea. Mr Giuliani has been Sort of center stage on so much of the activity and yet we've heard actually very little directly from him aside from the occasional Press conference so yes I think it would be very forceful and it puts Republicans. I think in a bind so I would think think from a democratic perspective. It'd be tactically useful. Let me just flip the script on. Then play. Devil's advocate for a second. The argument goes that if you bring Rudy Giuliani he's going to also want Then have to discuss our one in disguise. Hunter Biden Barista and try to make that to center stage because that is what he's out there investigating eating. You know the various conspiracy theories out there. Do you open a bit of a Pandora's box if the Democrats want to keep this focused by bringing in a Rudy Giuliani. You're also probably going to have to touch some of these other things that perhaps have those individuals hauled up in front of the Senate. Yes possibly bear in mind that a trial is overseen overseen by the Chief Justice of the United States so he would make Rulings on relevance and other evidentiary issues by the way including attorney. Client Privilege So yes there is a bit of a gamble but it seems to me that Mr Giuliani Israeli in the pivot of everything. That happened a virtually everything that happened. with respect to Ukraine my your take on a decent rudy. Giuliani should be called to testify so I think he is a clear and credible critical critical fact witness and there are so many public statements by him. They're actually numerous start in May twenty nineteen it even before we knew what we were going to learn in July about that July call and and so things that says to me is two things one should should. We need him to testify no because he's already testified to the public in essence but I also agree that because he's such a central fact witness Ns and because you can essentially cross examine him because of all his public statements. It's much harder for him to lie. Given how often and he has doubled down on of course I did it. Of course I was digging up dirt on the Biden's I was doing it as a defense attorney in in my capacity as Donald Trump's defense attorney meaning for his personal interests not those of the country maybe the country one point any says maybe the country will benefit to making it. Clear that it's not about us so I think for all of those reasons. There's there's a lot more advantage to having being him then too. Not having him. I think to your point. I think that is a concern for Democrats. I think that the record is much stronger often than it comes comes out in in how much evidence there is if there was not wrongdoing on. The part of the Biden's wasn't good. No does it look good. No was is there anything that anyone has ever considered unlawful that that Joe Biden did or Fr- from what we can tell. That Hunter Biden did now so they should probably be a little bit more forceful in defending you know those points. One of the questions. I think a lot of people have is the nature of the relationship that Donald trump house house with Rudy Giuliani. You brought up the issue of potential client attorney client privilege. But but my question to you is. We don't know much about the relationship so to what extenders attorney client privilege apply when you have somebody who does not your lawyer does not represent any legal proceedings as we know I don't believe Rudy Giuliani any has appeared in court on behalf of the president. So far we don't believe from any of our reporting that he has been paid by the president for these investigations although he's out soliciting money from Ukrainian oligarchy. So that's a whole other issue so to what extent does attorney client privilege apply for somebody who as we as far as we know is more of an investigator than an actual attorney for the president. Well let's separate out two things so one is people have attorney client privilege with their attorneys whether they pay. Hey them or not. We have a system in this country. Where sometimes people get free legal assistance the fact that you are pouring you can't pay for it doesn't mean you lose the privilege any more than if you're rich and you don't pay for it you lose the privilege? The privilege goes to whether you're giving legal advice. Now that doesn't mean that the converse all the conversations between donald trump trump and rudy. Giuliani are protected by attorney. Client privilege. 'cause the point becomes one. You don't get protection if you're conspiring together to Defraud the United States that's called a felony it's a conspiracy and if you are in a conspiracy with your turn to violate the law. There's a crime I am fraud exception. That says you don't get to protect those conversations and the other issue here does it. So doesn't matter whether there's an investigation or not it. It does matter what the communications are about. Donald Trump himself has publicly said. Yeah I one of the dirt on show by so there's A. There's a lot that you could could ask. That would not necessarily violate attorney client privilege. or where the privilege would not apply rubber. Where do you see this going over the next couple of days? WE'RE EH bogged down into some politics. Are we going to see this. Play out into the courts with done again Before it even gets to a trial phase in the Senate Gee you think he could actually become political Yeah I get his but at this stage what's happening is posturing during remember Mitch. McConnell is not put out any sort of draft rules of how he thinks this ought to play out and until we get that. We're not really going to get a a very clear picture of how things could happen. If I could just add gloss by the way to Maya said about the attorney client privilege. You also lose it when you've disclosed information Asian to third parties here. You've got both the president and Giuliani out. There all the time talking about what they're up to you can the expression as you. The attorney attorney client privilege as a shield. It's not a sword. So I suspect that there'd be clear rulings. At least some instances in which the the the the presiding the judge the chief justice would say. You lost that privilege all right fair enough. That's a good point there Robert Heath. Thanks for clarifying that. My Wi- my wife. Excuse me thank you so much as always the road to trump's historic impeachment and neutral questions. We're back in just thirty seconds down and trump is about to go on trial for alleged crimes. What will happen with the witnesses? And how long will the trial actually be. Who Will the managers be? Those are some of the open open questions. But here's how we got trump's historic impeachment. I'm announcing the House of Representatives. Moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry quarry they are under fire from all sides for this whistleblower complaints it donald trump busted for making good on his infamous claim. He would take foreign help in. Twenty twenty impeachment is the imperative at the president. President committed crimes in office. So you say impeach so that is a thing. The case for bribery is straightforward forward and everyone knows bribery is impeachable. That's why we held up the money we do that. All the time with foreign policy is quick. Provo tell me what rule law or extent shoots been violated by the president. You WanNa Point two statutes. That's not required. I think quitted per citizen set off some alarm because that's obviously shady. Yeah it's pretty. Pretty damning evidence. Damning Slam Dunk evidence an incredibly damning admission that you can't trust the president not to commit crimes it goes right to the heart of the issue of bribery. It's perfectly it's bribery. Unlike any other in the trump era nine different trump administration insiders who joined twelve other witnesses who've now provided over thirty hours of testimony. was there a quid pro quo. The answer is yes here is the most important shift in all the testimony to date. Sawn line moves over suddenly saying yes this was bribery. He was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security cutie foreign policy and those two things had just diverged. Everyone was in the loop. His personal attorney Rudy Giuliani things in Ukraine. Today of all places He. He says he's meeting with prosecutors. which are of course? Also potential witnesses to paraphrase biggie smalls. He's going going back back to Kiev. Have Kiev this is a crime spree in progress and that gives us an urgency to act. What Speaker Pelosi and Bob Muller couldn't pull off Rudy Rudy? Giuliani is pulling all getting donald trump. Impeach the House will do what many thought it was on. Its Way to impeach president trump. Starting now I'm asking chairman to supersede with articles of impeachment. Let's lawless president has taken advantage of the public trust committing high crimes and misdemeanors You absolutely have a constitution provides for a very quick remedy to that you've got president. Trump has basically out knicks signing Nixon. An extraordinary breach of the powers of the presidency. It is a vote that actually changes everything all right joining me now. Politico's Natasha Bertrand. Natasha beat to have you with us on this Friday evening. So what you're hearing about where things go next from here. I know we're all in a bit of a holding pattern but walk us through. Technically what may may me be the next steps and all this. Yeah well we're not hearing much amen. And you know. Obviously they're out on their break right now so when they they come back from the recess. We'll probably be hearing a bit more especially with Lisa Murkowski making those comments. Senators probably be under pressure by reporters to weigh in on her on her claim that she found it. Disturbing that Mitch. McConnell said that he was going to be working hand in glove with the White House but right now the process really. We don't really know what's going to happen happened because Mitch. McConnell is really fighting a two front battle here one against Nancy Pelosi in terms of how the Senate trial is going to be set up and one against the president as well because because Mitch McConnell has said he doesn't want witnesses the president has said he does he wants people like Hunter Biden the whistle blower etc to essentially create an alternative alternative Reality where the bad guys and the people on trial are actually going to be the Democrats and the Biden's rather than the president who is just impeached by the House of Representatives so with regard to the impeachment managers. We don't even know yet because Nancy Pelosi has said that she doesn't even want to go there until she figures out. Whether there's going to be a fair trial trial and Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer so far have not come to any kind of agreement that we know of so we still have to wait longer to see how this is going to play out. So there's no doubt that obviously we're in the middle. I love the holiday break. That has prolong things or make feel make things feel a little bit more dragged out than maybe they necessarily are but what Speaker Pelosi strategy here and is there any risk you get a sense. There could be a risk if she holds onto these articles and not officially transmit them over to the Senate once Congress back in session. Listen yes so this obviously constitutional gray area. It really doesn't say much about when exactly. The articles need to transmit it to the senator turf. How long the house can delay transferring those articles But the Senate's rules are pretty clear. They cannot launch a trial unless those rules are changed without getting those articles from the House. So Nancy Pelosi Strategy. Here I think is really to kind of exploit that gray area and builds tension and keep the pressure. Sure on Mitch. McConnell so that all eyes are really on him and creating a fair trial and making sure that certain documents and witnesses that that Democrats want are potentially going to be presented so that Democrats aren't walking into an ambush not able to present their case before the Senate before the American people after having gone through the entire impeachment treatment process But there could obviously be some risk there depending on how long she delays it. I don't think it's going to be too long. She knows that it's going to lose momentum tone but at the same time the president is clearly very frustrated and that's also part of her strategy here is to kind of make him sweat because right now. It's not Nancy. Pelosi keeping keeping impeachment in the news. It's the president with his constant tweeting. So I think she's just kind of letting him sweat it out waiting to see what McConnell does and when everything when everyone comes back and January. We'll probably hear a lot more all right into Tasha Bertram lifeforce in Washington. DC always a pleasure. Thanks RASA famine ahead. Trump official makes a stunning admission about the border wall. We're going to build the law law. We're going to build a big beautiful. I will have the most gorgeous wall you've ever seen an impenetrable physical tall all powerful beautiful southern border wall name that trump walls that will go up so fast your head will spin. Where are you going to build the wall so the keyword there? I don't know if you picked it up. It's GonNa the Walls GonNa be beautiful. It's GONNA be tall. It's going to be powerful while a bombshell Tom. Shell admission from the trump administration a failure on trump's signature campaign. Promise Trump's border commissioner saying it is hard to say if that promise Thomas will be met by two thousand twenty one how many miles of wall has been constructed. Not all that's replacing. All but a new wall has been built to this point. So seventy miles of new wall has been built. Many miles of wall now exists where there was no wall whatsoever so again I my response to that is every mile of wall. That's being built is a new model of wall now. Miles new were nothing existed so right now the the seventy miles have been built have been built where there was a an existing form of barrier so today the Los Angeles Times editorial board mocking trump for quotes still pushing his crazy border wall plan with me now. NBC News Reporter. Juliet Ainsley Republican. Strategist Susan Dell Percy. Great Tab both of you with Australia let me begin with you first of all realistically speaking you cover obviously homeland security immigration for us. So you know. This has been a signature issue for president and trump realistically. Was this all a promise. Really that could never be kept. I mean is this thing started going on in his presidency Was it ever expected to be Sailing for the president to try to get the money and build this wall amen because past presidents have been successful at this under George W Bush there were about three hundred. Fifty Miles of border wall was constructed but in the areas that the Bush administration left out there was a reason I and a lot of cases sometimes it was because there was a river there. The Rio Grande provides a very natural barrier between the United States Mexico other areas. It was because of interstate commerce. Things needed to stay open. Also a big part of this is that in Texas the majority of the land where they are now looking to build. This wall is privately-owned owned and so the trump administration is running into roadblocks where they're going to have to enter into court negotiations about whether or not they can seize that land and pay later that's the strategy adage that they have now. And it's one that jared Kushner has been assigned to carrying out as he is now kind of the unofficial borders walls. Czar if you will By his father in law to carry this out another issue though is the contracts. My colleague. cordy Cuban I reported on the fact that there's now inspector general investigation into a company notice Fisher Fisher sand and gravel that recently got a four hundred million dollar contract to build thirty five miles of wall on the southern border and it turns out they might not be able to to carry that through the inspector generals looking at and it may have been they may have been chosen because of outside influence that repeatedly touted that company. The swamp is being drained drained Susan swamp here I was GonNa say how do you think trump voters will react to him not delivering on his signature. Promise I mean. Obviously they've already forgotten that he promised Mexico would pay for the wall. That's turned out to be alive. Not True not happening but now they seem to think that the wall is still being built even if Americans are now paying report right but it's important to remember if you go back to two thousand sixteen and a lot of people those rallies when they're saying build the wall where they were interviewed afterwards they knew they. I didn't think it was actually going to happen. They liked the ridder mind. They liked what it represented. So I'm with trump space. This isn't going to be a problem. And trump never want to stick. Stick to the truth or facts. He's just going to keep saying I'm building a wall. It's going great and should Democrats use that in two thousand twenty against him that you promise this and it didn't happen. I among other things that he said he would do that. He hasn't done. I don't think they need to do that. I think that's baked into the equation. I think if you look at healthcare's issue and other kitchen table issues that would be more advantageous. You can say look all Donald Trump cares about as stupid wall. Meanwhile he shut down the government. He's he hasn't gone. Healthcare done enlist all the things. So if you WANNA use it as a bogeyman. kind of that can work. But his supporters never really thought that would be built. They also probably thinking this can get elected. But that's Kaleo. What is the trump administration plan here to try and break through some of the roadblocks that you've mentioned and others as well that are out there? Well it's tricky another roadblock I should mention as effect that some of this funding that the administration wanted to us from the defense budget has been hold up in court where. They've said that they can't dip into that pot of money if you can think what about honesty year ago when the president said he would reopen the government without congressional funding for the wall. It was because he wanted to argue. This was a national emergency and now the courts are saying. Actually it doesn't count as a national emergency. So that's one roadblock they have to go through could they still use that money to buy land but not actually started erecting the wall yet. These these are all things that are being discussed. They also have to look enlarge part at how long they're willing to spend in court so right now. I think what we can't quite understand stand is why there's this very specific promise by the President and by people at DHS to say that they're going to build on his five hundred miles of new wall where no other other wall exists right by the end of next year when so far none of that has happened. Over the three years of the trump presidency more obstacles being raised in the process. You're Geno Certainly A. It's certainly interesting point. I want to play with you. Something that Ari heard from a trump aide who made the argument that Mexico is actually paying for the wall. I believe it or not. Well listen to this. Mexico is paying a lot for our southern security and that I would call it a virtual wall. That's your closing closing argument. They're paying for a virtual wall. What the hell does that even mean? What is it peace living in a virtual reality? That's what it means. What does that mean? The they're making stuff up. I don't know how else to put it. They talk about having maybe Juliano's really quickly what I'm not. I'm not trying to you know be sarcastic here. But what does he mean Julia. Well I mean if he's talking about it and the one way this could be interpreted. It's actually quite cruel. What Mexico is doing is harboring sixty thousand asylum seekers that are trying to come into the United States to have their day in court and make their claim and instead Mexico is keeping these people in terrible conditions? Intensities where they have been robbed they have been ransacked counts of rape and assault if that counts Mexico paying for a border security. That's a pretty sad that state of affairs. He's implying that Mexico's not letting them cross and by doing so. That is the wall in of itself. That Mexico's now holding onto these migrants. So as I said that that is it perhaps. Yeah that is one interpretation. A sad one is disturbing one if it is Julie Ainsley Susan. Thank you both very much next. Susan just mentioned the top issue of healthcare. Are we have a special guest on that next we are in sprint island. Democrats are at odds over healthcare specifically Medicare for all today conservative columnist and trump critic. George will had a warning for Democrats saying trump victory in two thousand twenty could be because of Democrats is quote ignorance and arrogance when it comes to healthcare but how is this issue playing with Americans and what exactly is Medicare for all who actually pays for a new MSNBC special entitled Red White and who takes a closer look at that the debate over healthcare and tackles the complex Medicare for all issue at on what is Medicare for all. There's no exact definition because it doesn't exist yet but the basic idea of the two proposals in Congress is is that the government runs one national healthcare program. And everybody's on it. Private insurance companies are pretty much out of business and doctors hospitals and pharmacists. Bill Uncle Sam. COPAYS premiums ended up tables would mostly disappear but nothing in life is free. The government needs money to pay for all that care which means side effects could include a payroll tax income tax progressive income tax tax on the wealthy attacks and extremely wealthy and imposing fees on financial institutions. Owe The government may finally be able to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies companies. A brilliant little there on pharmaceutical labels. I guess in the health scares that. Come with it Francesco. For Antena who made that documentary journal. COMEDIAN RADIAN joins us. She is the host of Red White. And who fascinating. Look the Medicare debate in this country. Let me start off by asking you. What is it that you learn from going out there and speaking to people across the country about country now on this topic right I mean I think I mean just responding to pundits and people like George will? I think we all need to kind of do what what I did. And or watch the show on Sunday and listened to Americans care as one of those topics that voters care so so much about and yet we're always told how they think we never actually talked to them so when I learned from talking to them as for example Medicare right now it's healthcare scare for those who have sixty five and older super popular. It's in popular so People I spoke with a Rodeo cowboys I spoke with in Texas axis uninsured all their lives. Republican voters is the best thing that ever happened to them was turning sixty five and so they get treatment for leukaemia right whereas as before. They couldn't afford the meds month to month. It's incredibly expensive. And these are voters who would never before cuts which we know. Republicans have had on the chopping blocked for a long time. The other thing I learned where that voters like Medicaid which is healthcare for low income children the disabled and in fourteen states right now Republican. Legislators are holding back on Medicaid expansion which would give millions of Americans healthcare so honestly. Americans aren't playing this game theory around. Healthcare Americans are going bankrupt. Americans are losing their jobs and then losing their healthcare are getting sick and then like okay which billing system corresponds respond with my insurance versus my husband's or they're waiting through it and they feel very alone. You had the chance to talk to Bernie Sanders. This is obviously a signature issue for him. Let me play you a little with that exchange and I'll get your comments afterwards. How much is Medicare for all costs? How many Iraq wars? That is a great question one and a half. That's a hot apple orange. But here's the more important people say Medicare for all is expensive but if we maintain the status quo play you. Don't bring in the cost. Efficiencies that Medicare for all will there are estimates out there that would be spending fifty trillion dollars over the next in years but healthcare so we already spending far more than any other country per person on health care. He has stayed pretty consistent about this throughout his career. Certainly in the last couple of years since you got into these types of presidential politics and trying to make it a national issue but how has he been so consistent. How has that consistency rather worked out for him? I mean I think he's played the long game if you will. I mean the guys win business way his entire political career and now we're seeing that he's he's helped turn the tide when it comes to healthcare and really I think the American people are starting to imagine what an overhaul could look like and in fact from what I spoke from the Americans that I spoke with. It could look even simpler than what they've got going on right now which is so intricate so complex flex with the affordable care. Act You mean with the Affordable Care Act not knowing you got your gold and silver and you're eighteen of I don't know like what is this looking. I afford award and then also like I was saying. Most Americans get their health care through their work. What if you lose your job? Your healthcare is only stable as your job is stable. Certainly taking a big big chunks and one thing that people can agree with the current system is definitely not working. Francesca thank you so much for this. Congratulations we'll be watching. You can definitely catch that special red white and who this Sunday nine pm Eastern right here on. MSNBC DO NOT WANNA miss that. When we're back we have a surprise for it? You don't WanNa miss that either. All right. It's Friday so you know what that means here on the beat it is time to fall back. Here's the best a fallback Friday this year and now it's time time to fall back to fall back the pathogen spice law the major record labels season to any this show media in general people polluting the ocean with plastic. Or Oh if you're able to take us off your before you enter the cold. ooh really big investigation. High of mobile recalled the do the segment is confused the first sitting. US senator to jump into the fray. You know I I do comedy to you have good Internet social and dental hygiene. We were always lossing. Okay data job that could go Ending toxic mass right here get some respect to both our chef or comedian our journalist and the MSNBC MOMS. I'm down there with some respect on my name as it were. Who sent that Ari Birdman? I'll okay I mean. I'm not just history I'm here with the rapper rapper. For an hip hop icon with six members of the legendary Tang clan. You got a taste of the rappers wrestling with something. I share such striking neck. Wear but different. Yeah I told him I felt Ondruska's I didn't have any blame killing Ladda bills sales and which is different than killing bars. You get that right. I think that's a musical term. Right side is been just like sick of old white. Did Go away I for a novelist you bring a lot of statistics. I'm also a Jew. Shallow hello also famously said and this is fitting how we finish or are we done. That's all right. That does it for me. I'm going to see you here tonight at ten PM Eastern filling in for Lawrence O'Donnell on the last work. Hey everyone it's Chris as thanks for listening now I want to invite you to talk to us here at MSNBC. We'd like to know more about you. And the topics you'd be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcasts text. PODCAST two six six eight six six and we'll text to a link to a short survey again text. The word podcast two six six eight six six standard text messaging rates. Apply your input matters and we're looking forward to hearing from you.