118: ANARCHY IN THE UK? EU elections aftermath special

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

The Starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box. Let's you go tickling the ivories. He just saved by bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally by ring for that gal of yours Ugo, send my condolences. This next one freed, there's. In my all, thank you. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations. Hello. And welcome to the puck that went tell you who voted for gays against expelled from the labour party, congratulations to all our listeners for staying awake for at least one hundred twenty hours. They didn't miss a single second of Theresa May resign, then European elections, then general meltdown. We, we see the very best of British politics over the past seven days. Whether your favorite moment was little, Tommy Robinson losing his deposit, and we'd come running out of your TV screen Victorian, poltergeist prime minister resigning and nobody really noticing. We'll be helping you to relive the more like some polling end of life flashback. I'm Dorian linski and suggests free pocus this week just the regulars firstly around reports for naming Smith, whose efforts as acting CEO of best ridden helped liver popular vote for remain. There was at least equal to the Brexit vote as we may mention late. How was it for you? Yeah. Great. Supposed expectations. I think is the phrase, we really hoped we'd win on vote share but to win vote share and seats is pretty special. How was it election night shindig? No. We decided against the last minute largely to try and preserve people's energy levels of it. So watching it from the comfort of your in home run into the was. And we went with in the end. Plus oversee our colleague Louise didn't get selected. And so, yeah. Which it'd be wrong for us all to be together and celebrating if, if she wasn't successful which suddenly she wasn't this time. Did you have a highlight? Yeah. Absolutely. It was name alone getting elected in northern oversee. That wasn't a Sunday night thing. We have to wait 'til Monday for that pleasure. And so she took the second seat in Northern Ireland. Head of shin Fain that means that Northern Ireland now has to pro e u I mean Ps, one pre Brexit MVP, and it was the first time that the alliance has one and Emmys PC there. So that was just fussing. And I did have a little. Many cry when decoration is. And that was because it was just fantastic with this is Alexandria. All singing all acting, all cooking member of our panel. Hello, Alex Hello. I'm doing all right now. What was what was your highlight? I think it's Majid Majed getting elected. I mean, ten years ago that region Yorkshire and the Humber elected BNP leader Nick Griffin as the name EP so ten years later for them to elect. A child as Molly child refugee as its first green, maybe just made me glow with the warmth, nothing else that happened last week he offense. All right. Eight wonder finding we're very glad to welcome back to the show for the first time in months. Ingrid Oliver actor, comedian an actual movie star in Chris Addison's the hustle. Will you will you growing tired of promoting Hollywood movie in luxury hotels in Los Angeles and hungry for Brexit? Oh, I'm always hungry for vaccine it. Well, I, I think if you're going to China scape physical madness going to America's maybe not the best place ago. But now I still in, in the thick of it out there everyone. I talked to always always comprised price it. And as as my friends will testify does that go down on the junket. Ju I didn't interview then same, it weekly which is like ready at times, as today's pretty as glam than that. It's been more contact you in than that. And mentioned the remaining acts costs now, we say, seven million Americans, who we are the next live show. I'm thinking at I. Coins? In terms of the European and action. My favorite moment, Namie, positive was my, my happiest moment was based on Sheldon Freud, which is what ching is Lynton turning the. Say. Full of therapy, I think shot and food. Yeah, yeah. It was it was a very it came from doc plays. But it made me very happy. It's one of the many gifts we've had my friends in the continent. This week we're looking at the fallout from the European elections. What the results me remain and for the fate of the main parties and will anything come of the hope as messed during voting, which meant possibly thousands of citizens who should have been able to vote in the UK were prevented from doing so plus I book out, I'm going to plug it. The ministry of truth by George Orwell's nineteen Eighty-four. It's out now Olga state censored bookshops and Harrison is going to interrogate me about it later in the show. I'm because it's such a momentous week, we're doing quick Oscar maniac session, where we answer your questions at the end of the show and this, all this is not just a patron backers all that. And more after a quick message from Alex. If Briggs it is weighing little heavily on your mind. It's weighing heavily owners then why not alleviate the stress without partner podcast. Big mouth, this modern pop culture, talk show. Each week, it features, stop music and entertainment. Writers, discussing the music films TV in book releases that really matter. It's a bit like our show, except with David Barry, or Netflix, instead of monk fronts and Jacob re smoke this week, the talking about the Elton John bio-pic rocket man, the new album from Richard. Holy and derives. Brit pop memoir, from the peo-, who made sweet pulp Alaska, and degeneration of ninety stars famous Phil savage. He knows where the bodies are buried surge. Big on your favorite podcast app to find it. And if you can't quite get enough of new meal, re and dumped, they're appearing at the especially vent called never again. How we protect British democracy from social media and dark money in London on Tuesday, the fourth of June. It's the manual center in Westminster. It's organized by the conversation and it will feature leading commentator, including Carol cut welder, and former supreme court president, Lord, no burger looking at the Doug Monday and digital techniques that have corrupted recent elections and how we can stop the same things happening again. Tickets are in sale now. Search the convention, never again on event bright to get yours. Thanks. Let's start with the EU elections while the Brexit press. And the BBC went with a straightforward story that the Brexit party had one because they did have the laws and receipts, the very produce furious. Wrangling and reinterpretation afterwards. In fact, the heartbreaks parties thirty four point six percent. The anti Brexit block forty point four percent. And then there was labour, and the Tories. And who knows how to divvy their votes up? I'm name you like polls is this. I mean, they seem to me unusually accurate, slightly overstating the Brexit parties woman's but definitely in the bullpen. So is this what, what we thought was going to have? So that's when we had our huge poll out just before polling day. So that was the weekend before we did that with you govern hope not hasten. We had a, a put of ten thousand people, so about cured as you can guess, and it was pretty accurate where the polls diverged on the labor vote. So some of the polls really overstated the labor vote, and we knew that one is opposed. Must have got it wrong. And so we will really hoping it wasn't as and thankfully, it wasn't an so a couple of the posters ago, but are they gonna face over that? And the Brexit Percy didn't get what they were expected to get. They go less than the posts that they'd get. And of course. Yeah. The labor and I'm. Supposed to vote with there for slightly overstated. But that did seem to be a closer level of accuracy than we've seen in some recent elections. Yes. Do you think it is possible say that remain won the elections as people at poly, twin be have been saying in dont, simply rate remain triumphant? Oh, do you know I it's a really taking on his net because I spent the next day, so pouring the election results and Gaiman, I am guessing livid over over. People who crying the Brexit minibreaks clearly warn when it clearly isn't as causes that by just I'm sort of over analyzing, I, I am over analyzing over analyzing, what it will means because I think clearly what it means is that we're still close to consensus. So, so in in some senses. I mean, I'm glad that we came. Glad we went out the water obviously, but I don't think is resounding victory on any side. Alex. How should we try to portion, the labor conservative votes in that remain leave access because I saw some of those little kind of ball, graphs, which were adding the labor vote to the remain which of courses contentious. So some said like eighty percent of labor votes, you could count as remain maybe forty percent of Tory votes. But I mean we don't know. I don't think that's right. I think my views, the correct interpretation is to split it into three blocks effectively people advocating leave. With the deal people advocating leaving without the deal then people advocating remain. Right. And if you do that of those three blocks, basically, remain is top by a considerable way and leaving the deal is bottom by a considerable way. Now, the question is when it comes to a binary possible next referendum. How does that split down that obviously depends on the questions on the ballot? But I think, again, generally, if you put remain at one end, and no deal at the other end, and look at it as a sort of scale, then I would say that remain parties, plus labor are on the soft Brexit side, and Brexit you keep. Plus conservatives are in the heartbreaks inside. Well, you tweeted Farraj increasing his MEP's by four is Brexit. Surge remain parties increase in their EMMY peas by nineteen is a good showing. I mean that was the media narrative. Well, yeah, of course, but this is what we predict it, doesn't it? This is what we're talking about the live show and possibly the, the show before that was, like this is how it's going to be frames. In fact, it became five and twenty after Scotland and Northern Ireland declared so that was sort of tweet late in the night before the rest of the results game. But yeah, I mean that was always going to be the media narrative, and it was a media narrative for the European. Dimension the election, which will talk about later because I think it's the easiest soap opera dramatic pitch for news program to work with the I mean, I think it's as simple as that. I think that was the problem that we have with, with covering populism is that it's always, I mean, we'll, we'll talk about the rest of Europe more detail later. But it's always the problem actually, the kind of populists in Europe didn't have a great. I mean not disasters night, but not a great a compared to say the greens, did much better. But for some reason, the media does not exciting to be like, oh, there's a green wave. But somehow kinda like, you know, the race it's doing well in exciting. Bogeyman is coming to get you is always much more compelling as a dramatic narrative, and the, you know, because we're down the root of twenty four hour news, being partly entertainment. They will always go for the cheap thrill over. Accuracy, did you hear a Davy one of the contenders for the lib DEM leadership really took? Would we how do we refer to our Brexit cost contemporaries? He, he really had a go Christmas, and saying you have you over putting this wrongly, you're not adding up the vote shares remain autism. This is kind of live there, and they start a real ding Dong with Christmas, and say, we are not. I do not accept that we all misreporting. Liz, it is if you want to add up the votes, then that's you know, that's fine. You can do it and you can make that case. But you cannot say that way. Mr. pushing it to say that the Brexit because he's got the most number of seats and Dave was going. It is the job of the media to do this. Hi behind Mississippi State level. This is this is dishonest. Representation because we it's not like for like it's not a Brexit party versus a remain potency. So, of course, you have to add, otherwise, it's calm, doesn't make any sense at all reversal. Curtis did a very similar thing election coverage which I found really astounding because he came out and said, I mean, it was clear that he's narrative was, I'm calling it a draw. And I think that's fair enough. Actually, a confirmation of the stalemate is not a bad reading of the election result, but he dropped out the nationalist parties because he said, they people voted for them on more issues than Brexit when both played Comrie and SNP had made Brexit, the own issue for this election, which I think doesn't stand. And also, he said that Brexit you Kip and. Lib Dem's greens represented. The two extremist factions in Brexit, and I think that's quite astounding actually, the idea that someone saying, we don't have a parachute and wearing the middle of a storm. So maybe during jump out of the plane is as extreme position as a drunk, Mark France were going jump jump jump jump. I find that unbelievable. But yet, sadly, believable and entirely predictable. We'll be talking about the big to all the not as big as they were last week to later, but the Brexit party did succeed more. So even than you, Kip in, in two thousand fourteen. Yeah. So the largest single party in the European parliament is now the party that wants nothing to do with the European. What a lineup they've got Martin Daubney class FOX, Richard Thais Nunziata Reese, Mark Byun of the people. Is is there immense charm likely to affect how Brussels deals with Britain or has basically having a similarly sized slightly smaller contingent of you? Give him MEP's for last five years, but. Against bullshit. I think I think the latter, I think they've priced it in obviously, they've had to deal with Kip is for the last five years, and it's the L D, E group, which is the grouping of liberals has been hugely boosted. So you've got Marsh, Macron's people. Now you've got in there. And they are now in one of the biggest groups and, and, you know, significantly bigger than the green group, even though we've we are talking about green surgeon, I think is a trend, of course. But let's not underestimate. Exactly, exactly. And I think it was wonderful. Is that the UK is now sending far more pro remain in P MEP's, this time than it was previously lived. You know, only one last time so there are far more pro eve we says coming from the British delegation than previous. I did. I did think when I sold that the Brexit policy is the biggest single party now in the European Parliament, I did it did remind me of me against the seventeen year in IB through when I it with my friends and getting really drunk vomiting in the streets and just seeing these Spanish people just looking at Mike. Thanks. This delegation of EMMY pays gangs, the, the bar in the in the in the parliament. Documentary about me and my friends about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then also, I would watch one in which it's going to like, you know, folks, and dog ni yeah. Visit some common technical flying. Madame Mizuho, on, on vase in that parties in the European parliament tend to work in coalitions and the numbers on the coalition's determine how much money they get every year. And so the Brexit party of though, the largest single party will be a difficult party to throw your lot in with considering they might not even be there in four months time, or six months time, because if you decide I'm going to shun this grouping and go in with the Brexit party, you might end up with not enough numbers in south months. Time to get you yearly stipend. As a huge advocate over lecturer, Fulham, I'm, I would like to make it clear that I think is disgusting. The domes get to send twenty two percent of the peace with only twenty percent of the vote. I think we need to. Replace to single transfer immediately. What do we make of the vengeful spirits demanding the mind, go the Brexit party being -cluded in the negotiation team, which doesn't wanna do that flow in the world? Documentaries, doesn't what you do. Anyway. We're not going to negotiate. It's like we've earned our right to go in there. I'm not negotiate and then leave. Yeah. I blamed strictly come dancing. I that when you when you saw make someone. Okay. And so funny and fun seeing that interview I thought my God. That's not that's, that's a fanny seeing when she was interviewed. But that's exactly as be went to after I the mouth that she wants to be as well. I, I wouldn't negotiate with many way and you get. We're dealing with. This is not okay. Nice. Really come down. Sing an they'd what's that a cold in an exorcist sheet behaving? Exactly what was really does. I posted a little bit of that video the middle of the night. And by the next morning, it had gone, viral, it had gone viral in a European way. So there were latest people, quote tweeting. We've French and German, this is what's coming away, by the way from the y'all Malcolm on the plus side. You Kip died at death and troll candidates like hall Benjamin were rejected Jerry baton lost his seat. Is this the end of the it'll built right on the night direction because it doesn't seem to have paid off. The problem is the fulfilled or function, which was to make Farraj is new vanity project. Looked more reasonable and moderate because that's the way the far right works by repositioning itself, constantly, it sort of makes its next iteration. Look, somehow more. Reasonable compared to the swivel lied loons that are now keeping the extreme. I mean, it's one reason I hesitate to define Farraj is a little cool for all your fascist fascist many kind of tactics. Then justified. And I wonder whether it's very hard to convince people at large outside you'll kind of Faraj hating echo chamber that he's a fascist when you have actual fascists, Tommy Robinson, and some of the U Kip is, you know, is, is that maybe this is that maybe the is that maybe the tax? I mean I didn't ratchet. Tommy Robinson is just like I'm gonna throw my body under the train here. No. In a noble attempt to make Niger Farraj more reasonable men. Imagine that's strategy. What happens? I mean historically, what happens is what happened in France. So what happened in Greece? It's, it's what happens. You know, the people who set up these things allow them to spin out of control. And then get up sit somewhere else and say no, they've gone too far for me their own views haven't changed Nyayo too. But somehow magically, they now appear more reasonable as success at the lib Dem's in the greens. Is it just a protest vote because this is a very protest the election or is he here to stay? And I seeing some really interesting. So the traffic on on Twitter after the Campbell's expulsion with quite a lot of people who would labour voters, live dams this time. And they were not like don't worry guys. I'll be back to like my nobody. Yeah. Okay. So I think the people that Alistair is a purchase. You know, for for others, it will have been as well. And the Ashcroft poll that came out yesterday, which is worth everybody looking, it's always very comprehensive view of what's going on. And it showed that the majority of people they'd pulled had said they were going to stick with the European vote in a general election. Now, we have heard that before, and it's not true and hasn't held true. I think few things have to happen, though, for it to stick. I think for the lib Dem's in particular, they need to stop talking up coalition if they want to hold onto those votes. I think there are a lot of people who'd be happy to hold their nose for this election, only to vote for them, but really haven't forgiven them, so you need to absolutely, you know, stop talking about what great job, they did then or better, still properly apologize for it. I think that the greens, potentially they could be holding onto a new core vote there. And I mean, I think yeah. I mean, I think it's it, what's what's interesting about the labor vote is, is one around credibility so overseas since Sunday, we've seen some in the labour leadership, make much move signals is about second referendum. I know we're gonna come to that in a bit. But I think it's about the difference between truth and credibility with Jeremy's credibility is probably similar to were Clegg's was in two thousand fifteen it didn't matter what the lib Dem's were saying by then nobody was listening to them anymore because they just didn't believe them. And so I I unless there is a big change. They're probably in messenger, rather than just on that position. I think they could well have lost some of those votes with the greens, I was an inch Inglewood Ashcroft poll that the breakdown of ages on people who voted for the Brexit causing the greens greens is clearly youth vote. And I remember I think as one thousand nine hundred eighty degree and feels like that's where, you know, the youth of today are heading. That's where they're putting their votes because there are. On tainted, as well power for anything else to green policy, well, in the, and they have, you know, everybody's talking about the issues of the foot for decades, and my mum, Nomi conservative. She voted green. And that's not being kind of young progressiveness early. But he was certainly a protest against Brexit. But also, it was, you know, it was like she does actually care about those issues. Now that stretches, there's not just the bills. We did a podcast before the election. And I thought then and I still do think that there's also emotional line that is crossed for someone who's never voted for anyone other than going, and cutting their vote for someone else. The habit. Breaking absolutely in that I think is a big danger for labor, because, in London, for example, they tend to hurt a lot of votes by saying, no one else can get elected vote for us to the Tories looking at some constituencies. Now a lot of people will be thinking, well, actually that's just not true. Can you explain what's happening with its nine vote scandal, which I saw kind of using rand? Sure. So this isn't new certainly happened into fourteen. I think happened before that Alex reportedly told me it's been happening ever, since he's been eligible to vote in the UK thought e- citizens have found it much more difficult to get registered to vote on to be able to vote, the UK essence and. Two European actually where I've really noticed them, putting barriers there and say best we did a bit of research on this before the before the deadline to register to vote, and we found that millions and millions of people were missing from the register in particular EU, citizens living in the UK, who were going to be eligible both in the local elections under these European actions to vote if they filled in all the extra hurdles that they had to go through to get registered and these things like signing a declaration, so that you won't also vote in your home country. And that's why we built apps and to make that person's much easier for everybody. And frankly, the government should be providing that are making the barriers entry into a democracy, much lower than is. However, we didn't have much time to do it. It was a big rush on having promised to sorta out in twenty fourteen. The government, just hadn't responsibility for this lies very much for the cabinet office. I wouldn't necessarily blame the electoral commission for it. You know it is for the cabinet office to sorted out. But what happened was that thousands of e since we're turned away from the polling station last Thursday. They were even some of them had some pretty racist, comments made to them by polling station. Staff you need to go and vote in your own country. You know, in this is their country. So late Thursday night, I was sort of meshing, few people thinking, can we get an emergency judicial review tomorrow from court on this largely it was? It's an e you treaty. That's been breached Nassir UK, once we weren't sure what you call it would be able to do, but the three million group and the British Anura group have now collaborated on a crowd Justice crowd, fund to raise the funds to do a test case judicial review, which is working its way through. And they are collecting lots and lots of case studies. So if you're listening and you haven't already contacted them with your story of what happened in a polling station losses. They being turned away or somebody that, you know, then do get in touch with them because they'll probably will may well. All results in class action being taken whether that can have any effect on the outcome. You know, we, we don't know. And of course, what we don't know is whether if all of those votes had been counted. Whether it would have changed a results in any of the region's principle remains. Principle remains the same. And if as many British citizens in outside the UK were denied us as is being alleged. It's upwards of a million people who didn't get vote, so almost certainly how they will brought voted the same way that could have the outcome. Howlett's people know this, but the European elections, also happened in the rest of Europe on facts. Obviously Laurie countries. Kind of broadly. What would the we talk a little bit about the green wave that what, what were the what were the kind of the interesting trends, were the, the interesting thing about them is that it's a mixed result? It's a mixed result with an overall message that does occur the message here. We were saying before this new clear things that came out of the election. I think there is. And I think the message is this that actually there are parties, which are proposing sort of compromise to unite the country and the vast majority of every country is going fuck. Uniting, people have began to see this as a sort of existential battle, as Helm's, deep where if we do not defend this point, if we do not put a market down and say enough is enough. We will be swallowed up by these populist. Wave. And so that's what I think the trend is. Now, you look at their they're basically two layers of analysis. So you look at somewhere like Greece, golden dawn actual fucking nuts. Is they've gone from nine point four percent to four point nine percent. So their voters, almost halved, the next level of analysis is also that the, the centre-right party in Greece, which has taken much of that vote has become a lot more hard-right in order to do that. So, you know, there are a lot of moving parts, but for example, you look at you look at the Netherlands, Gert builders in Niolai now. Okay. Visiting new alt-right party. That had that had some of those seats there, but get builders as a person was pivotal to the alt-right movement in Europe. He was the peg on which Bannon sort of hung his coat. You look at. Look at a place like, France, where the headline was, oh, a lapenne has one lapenne wanting to two thousand fourteen with a larger percentage in a larger number of votes. I was chatting to someone inside microns campaigned, and he was telling me they were fucking delighted to come out zero point nine percent. Rough time stereo year of g shown they were delighted to be within touching distance. And also, there are no real close rivals. Another trends that, that struck me with the anti e you laughed Mellish's party. So he name escapes me they link in Germany, Panama's. I remember what their stance on the explosive invite very hard left. They're similar their series in writing. They want. They want Europe to not be a monetary st- sort of. Okay. Well, that's okay. In France, Germany, the kind of, you know, sort of message for the legs says it's like the, the sort of the anti you left, his not, thriving, which ties into what I was saying before, I think people have begun savvy voters have begun to see that we've turned over this rock in his all kinds of shit curling out. And this is much bigger than actually tiny political debates. This is about light versus dark basically, and we need to get together and resist it. And so is Brody what happened in the UK reflected elsewhere in Europe, the populist party did kind of okay, liberals and greens did quite okay. And the kind of established parties in the middle. Did less invasive UK. I mean, the, the effect was pronounced because of Brexit. But yes say general trend. Is that the support ebbing away from center, left and says, say the general trend is that we're becoming more like Europe. Great. Finally exciting possibility for Ingrida, consider could the Brexit party win the general election opinion has them on twenty five percent with the Tories on twenty two labor twenty six and lib Dem's twelve percent. Obviously, this is, is quite a week to run a poll light that and they'll lead a manifestly next time. And how can they unite disaster? Capitalist. Nativist the revolutionary communist party alumnae association and the former editor of loaded. Do you see this is really, really say that? That as a viable, general election proposition. Absolutely not. I mean, in the same way, the people rightly say, the EU, the elections are European not a general election. They're, they're absolutely no. You know, like in France. I remember you the t- rounds of acing having they was. And in the first round of ace marina panel was very well. And then when people actually come to voting for that leader. No people don't actually want a fascist university combs on. Nas. Inverted. Commas. Running that country. So, so no is the answer class. Well, I would say is that we cut me too complacent. And what I hoped Monday morning would be would be massive wakeup call for the remain parties, who remember didn't get their act together to stand down for each other. This time I think they absolutely have to next time. There is a, a real threat the Farraj and forest or whoever is the new leaders, concerted posse will former regressive and they'll do a deal on. They'll stand down for each other because that's what you kept in two thousand fourteen it stood down in hundreds of seats actually, to let the pro Brexit conservative candidate have the clearest run, and we've got to be ready to time and the general election could be upon us as quickly as this election was, and they will use that excuse, but we didn't have time to go to Britain to org slash work together and sign a petition to get them to do that one. Very, very quick point for our she's a good campaigner, but he's a dreadful manager. He's parties tend to fall apart after the election. You keep ended up with fewer than half the peas. Got elected last time. So that can't be overstated yet that's promising. So what does all this mean for the party's starting with jaycee and the sunshine band labor has started messaging in favor of another vote? All of a sudden, Emily Thorne. We went freelance on the BBC and pretty much offered. One line on John McDonnell. Diane Abbott talking favor, even Jeremy Corbyn is softening. So the whole discussion we had was the, the basically voters remains were not going to be listened to by labor unless they punished labor. That was the whole argument. We making just going you should probably vote for another party sorry for getting into trouble Alastair Campbell. So that worked right? Yeah. Like a dream like literally live as the results were coming in. So we were right? And then things could things will get a little bit messy with a punishment beating for poor Mason. From from the from the labor left for saying that, this would Akopian bad. Advisers should go. Now I mean, after an election failure like this is kinda weird that the only who's gone. Member like nobody nobody responsible for this. And some of the, the as I think, maybe some of the ones that weren't realized, you know, put posts online saying this is what this is how bad the campaign was. This is how, you know, inadequate the leaflets where some of them had errors on them. They didn't have any kind of like you're the region's didn't have much power is all imposed from above. And yet it seems like oh, you're not allowed to save someone like formation. It's gonna credibility. There is not allowed to say that should give some of these people that heave ho they is it just is. On that front is, is how much he's going to change. I think all eyes on next week's election. So we have a by-election in Peterborough next Thursday, the sixth of June. And I think if labor don't win that. And certainly, if they don't win it comfortably. Then I think that those pressures will have even more credence than just Missy than they do now. So I think there are a lot of people waiting to see what happens there an opposition party fighting a by-election at a time when the prime ministers resigned. You know, the governing party or having a beauty pageant to not win that then when it is held seat for them. You know, they they had the incumbent or the sitting MP is, is a huge huge, huge disappointment for them. And there's no real reason why they wouldn't win that unless something was incredibly wrong. So I think there might well be moved to, to change the leadership after them Ingraham reform. Bree was pretty emphatic Germany less so. Oh whoa. How much further just labor have to go to convince you that they're really doing this, and not just leaving on the table or winking at it. See what I feel like I've been away for a few months, and I feel like nothing has changed in terms of labor. What we've been having this conversation for the year years, actually, they always seem to sort of a coded message or not knowing that, something's changing than actually. I don't know what person always, especially. Yes. Spokesperson. I mean, I think I mean, I think this point I think it's hard for them to say I think they could I, I could see them supporting the second referendum. I think it's hard for them. It's the step of coming out for remain that I think Jeremy Cohen really struggles with because that is not what he feels and he's, he's an ideologue. He's a man of principle in Tacoma. And I, I think it's hard. It's almost impossible to move him from them. So you, you twitchy in a way that suggests you disagree with going to say, I still don't believe he's not ideological about this. I think he wants to I think he very much is of the left after just wants to somehow resolve this. However, leave remain halfway whatever and get onto other things, but his advisors the one that the pull Mason is angry with. They're the they're the ideal. Oh, yeah. Sure. But then he's, he's the head of the party. So so stock do you don't think he has in his head? Or maybe it's as long as it has in his head, what the ideal labor voter looks like and it's not a remain a-. And I think and I think we're all guilty with we carry trying to be heads as to what they were they remain should just look into the crown. I just think that at least in undies making a loss of. We've lost our way with the working class voter and claiming that, that is somehow something that's happened, since the referendum is just utter nonsense. It has long since you're an happening, Labor's vote and its members have from fall long like a liberal, metropolitan elite kind of voter than they ever have, you know, kind of, well, this is the a massive sort of existential question. Because I you know, Tim Shipman on notice was working in the next journal, action, basically, like it on all we'll believe remained in toys, and labor. We'd better off just sort of picking a side. But where we see that means if you look at the results, you can certainly argue, the of course, the country labor was losing three times, this times, the number to remain parties lost the Brexit Ponzi. However, watching the results come in. Wigan Rotherham, both over Hartlepool. They were losing the much more to the Brexit sometimes who getting over fifty percent. And I wondered when you look at your Lisa nineties and Caroline, Flint represent those kind of areas. And they're talking about this is who labor stands for these are heartlands as if the something kind of, like fetishistic about those are the heartlands, and then parts of the city's inner cities, been labor and more strongly labor. Very long time now I somehow I had I had a little spat with Lisa Nandy in line because she was saying, you know, how do we get to power without places like Walsall and Wigan and Scotland and that's. That's what I said, tell me how you get to power without London. And Scotland because you, you can't end the point is these, these views are put forward as somehow uniting when as a matter of fact, they deny the fact that there is there are millions of working class people in London, I'm well, then you have the ridiculous, Ian Lavery going the people's right, committed sneering ordinary people, and it was, like, why didn't you just why don't you define ordinary people here because I think most people are counters ordinary people unless you like prince or something. He's not ordinary person wasn't and is dead. But you're here's you know there are certain people you just go. You're not ordinary. Like, why not why not kind of like a blind person who lives in, in the city in the south, maybe just as much in ordinary person, just as important as a white person will listen? You're listening to more basic level next time and labor goes into a coffee shop to get his lot. He should think of the person making that coffee for him, who is working on the exact minimum wage, and the same minimum wage that a person in lease anandas constituencies, working on, but he's facing costs three times as high and tell him that he's not working class, or her, then she's not ordinary and she somehow metropolitan elite brace yourselves to talk about the conservatives. Because it was struck me watching Rory. Stewart all my Hancock whatever and you just think, oh in another era. These seem like pretty reasonable little rye wing for my tastes, still, but quite reasonable centrist Tories who you into reality and things like that. Obviously, they're gonna be on like, you know one percent. So is there any chance that somebody who isn't a head banger? Whether that be Johnson, rob estimate. Vail. Some, you know, is there any chance of some like that won't win because they're very hard to predict or relationship contests. So is it is it possible that whoever it is, even if it's not one of the big names is not willing to willing to go for no Brexit? Well, I mean, I don't think hunting g-o-v and people like that would do that. I had assumed as I think most people who follow politics at all now that the front runner, into Tory, leadership election never wins. We know that we've had g-o-v knife Boris at the last minute last time, we had your skeptics voting for Ken Clarke to keep Portillo off the member ballot in two thousand and one I assumed that'd be another caucus happening this time. Apparently, there isn't although. There also seems to be almost no one who hasn't now throwing their housing, the ring to be to a leader. There's a dozen of them. Now at least but I think what the remains are hoping for is that there person whether that is ROY Stewart with somebody else. I mean, let's see if Justin greening of somebody throws the hat in the ring could come good second with about seventy or eighty MP's backing them. And then about half those would threaten to walk away from the votes and deny the government majority, if they did some kind of no deal threatened thing that, that Boris's talked up, however. Oh, I don't think we should bloody. Well, wait for the conservative beauty pageant to decide any of this, and I think we should Knicks early on. And I think we need to get our MP's fired up while the house is still sitting this June July, until house is to get no deal off the table, and they can do it, and this parliament, they don't need to wait for the next one. I think it's obscene that was sort of all sitting back and waiting for them to finish that beauty pageant and allow this farcical Willie waving nonsense about all I'll take us to know deal, if, if we have to I want to be in the year after thirty I looked over, you know, we had it before, there are starts tree. They're standing orders that can go down to take back control of parliament, and they would have paper onto legislate to mandate, the, the, the prime minister of the day to revoke, if we get close to new, and that's what our MP's have to do. You think the leader? New leader is going to make. Any real difference? If the facts don't change because there are still certain facts regarding they renegotiate the Irish backstop is still incredibly important the country still divided. Still don't have the parliamentary numbers like so there's all this who's going to lead us to actually matter. I ain't makes a huge difference. I think it's hugely important. I, I can imagine if someone if there was a no deal candidates that one, for example, in some ways that would flush out, not real quickly and then labor would have to be confronted with you. You would have to you, you couldn't prevaricate you can talk about dean deals because that's just gone. So in some ways that would either force, I suppose the general election or second referendum in which case if it was between remaining, no deal. Then we would send a very good chance of winning. I think some microbes scares me more. Because I think I look at him. And I think this will go on for years because he wants Brexit. But I don't think he's an auditor, but I think he's also could stay. I think he's a very good position. Hypothetically, actually, I've done this. I joined the conservative policy Monday three-month through, do you know what doesn't say that on the website, and I assume that would be the case because with Jimmy Kubanov leisure, elections, it was, I've always been very clever. Now nothing joining or Johnson's Leyshon campaign, which I think would be just a cloud. All Oliver for Johnson. I wasn't doing my sabotaging. I was just talking about having a say in the country. I want to have saying that oversee now I realize, I can't five pounds gone. Not to see ROY Stuart's, happy face popping up at the window. The studio. Just stop for better just in the area wanted to chance hat pretending to hold his phone bless now, something happened normally require important, but doesn't feel very important to, which is the Prime Minister Theresa may resigned and spring internet her non-premiership with a non event of resignation is there anything even the future stories. What we're talking about are going to be tempted to leave her out like Tyrian in the in the book and the end. Just like no. You know you know in that. Is there anything normally this is really a whole show on the resignation of a prime minister? Is there anything to say about this? Yes, this is my pitch threes. If you're listening, her last Ariza Matale in as minister should be two very cool fifty. I say that in all seriousness, it would be calling the bluff of people like Boris Johnson saying, if you genuinely think you can get a better deal and. Navigate this station's to a different outcomes than I'm going to give you a clean slate to do that with by revoking article fifty you get your stuff together. You do it how you want. Remember he can go to know deal at any point, he doesn't have to use the two years. He can notify article fifty and take us to a no deal that day. So you want mic drop. Well, yes. I think that would actually give her a legacy to say, okay, I tried my best someone else have ago, but you're not gonna have a go with this hanging over our heads because someone noticed that she's put a clause in the extension agreement that, that explicitly says, we will not negotiate. We cannot negotiate during this extension period. So there would need to be some kind of reset Northern Ireland is different. Wiles is different. Scotland is obviously just Oltra ultra remain now. Change to work out as planned, but Robin, we talk about all of them individually, but I suppose there is the argument that, that it incense seats you could actually, you know, you could look changes tally and get will if they hadn't stood. And of course, it's not always transferable, because someone they might be taking from the Tories and labour. Visit if all those changed votes had gone to the lib Dem's with the greens. Then that would have been another seat for remain party. Certainly the message seems to be that it was time for United front. But one thing to ask you because we haven't had, this is the hustings is the change in lib DEM candidate at the hustings said there wasn't there just wasn't time that it came on equipment wasn't to? Is that true? And if so, if it's a time issue, does that mean that well, let's they have to stop planning for whatever happens next silly. So this is my big pitch to all of them p the internationalised MP's. So whether you're an internationalist in the Tory Percy or the lopersti oversee lived in Carolina, and the greens, and the nationalist have to work together because the regressive, alliance will be it could come upon us very, very quickly. I think generation is now much less likely. I think neither bec- main policies to L to cool one at the moment, all back, a coup for one but it's, it's crucial that they do and the different ways that they can do is I could act in concert in parliament, much better. So around votes around amendments around putting down some kind of legislation to stop no deal. A mandate, the, the private new prime minister to revoke if she doesn't follow Alex is the vice and did before she goes, that's one thing. But then there are ways they can work together outside of parliament. Good excuse. No, no, no. I think there was. I mean they even though they've missed the deadline to withdraw. They could have done things like the Scottish change candidate did who stood up and said, don't vote for me. You know, they could have done far more of that, and then I think they would have benefited because they would actually have been a policy of change rather than behaving just like every other party ever. The future at any rate, the immediate future is not with sensible meant the future is with the fanatics that was George Orwell in time and tide magazine in June nineteen forty and it's one of numerous hair-raisingly familiar moments. Endorphins new book, the ministry of truth. Oh, biography of George Orwell's nineteen hundred four which is published this week? Imagine Harrison, I produce the show. I'm really get right now, I've got to say that even though he's all mated is a fantastic read full broking chilling store for the staging days until so very funny. I feel like h g wells going Allen, politics when he says, to wall will read my early works. You shit fantastic. Doreen you talked about the book a little bit at our live show. And but the key question is why biography of nine hundred eighty four of all well, himself, will the raw many biographies? Well, a fair few feasible, well himself and one thing I love the idea of writing about something is incredibly famous, because when something is incredibly famous, whether that's film or a book or a song it becomes misunderstood. And actually, the store, the real stories behind very famous cultural icons. I find fascinating and I just wanted to go straight to the ideas. Go to the bits of his life that influence, the books, you've always go their anger because I've, I've had that thing, which I think a lot of people have when they're reading memoirs, biographies, where they're kind of eager to get through the childhood to get to the point where somebody does the thing that they are known for. And I, I love the idea of a biography of, of a book. And then you think okay? What information? What stories do I need to tell tell the story of this book and some of that's all story than this with HD wells, there's political context, and then there's all the stuff that happened to the book after all died? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's hard not to see absolutely everything is in the context of, you know, in the edge of Brexit in the age of Trump. Did you find while you're writing it because the Brexit crisis unfolding and mounting while you were writing this book, did it condition the way you wrote it? Do you think it was very emotionally cathartic to be able to go to this place? And to tell the story because it was worse than a villain. Pretty was down. Hitler Stalin and the second World War and all the horizon that brought with it. And there was something about the way the Orwell wrestled with those ideas and how complex it was. And what was the morally right thing to do, and to think kind of the world that he you know, how the world have gone so wrong what he hoped would would come out of it. And one thing I really didn't want to do was constantly kinda like joke the reader in the ribs and go. Oh, this is familiar, and I think once it sort of set up in that way, I think, readers intelligent enough to come across a quote from notes on nationalism, which we discussed focused or from many of his articles and go a right that feels familiar now. I think it would be murderous to read actually going through. Trump. The book is split into two sections, the, the, the writing the book and Orwell's struggled to complete Johnny's death. And then it's kind of afterlife in pop culture. You know, you you'll you made your bones as a music journalist, you know, a far away and stone rose a second album. Type fact we're now equidistant in time from the apple MAC, nineteen Eighty-four advert. As the other Wallstrom nine hundred eighty four thirty six years, thirty five years from the year nineteen hundred four. Yeah, yeah. So it's like it was then seen as a kind of touchstone almost kind of an ancient text of of, of literature with the things as a surprise you about. It's its afterlife in pop and shared culture, just the range. I mean politically, there's the range as in kind of, you know, there were kind of radicals of the new laughed and then kind of ultra mccarthyite on the rights embraced it. And we see that now we've come Twitter, the kind of range of people that quote ninety nine hundred four or post quotes on actually from nine hundred eighty four but they've just made you say. Yes. But that's just the way it popped up in, you know, I'd forgotten, you know, about Stevie Wonder song, big brother. John Lennon, big brother. I get on on Bowie on v for vendetta on Handmaid's tale. And this, there's a lot of Britain turbulence, Brazil be it's like this kind of, it's something that's too big to ignore. So even if you want to do something differently in your, your disturb your needs to be, you know, something fresh and different, you sort of have to negotiate your way around nineteen hundred four and inevitably there are bits that you take from it. And so it's kind of this, this cache of dystopia and tropes, which sort of all, well, had some of which collected from other books, but also from real life, you know, from Satala Teheran reality, and this is clean of, I think, anybody who writes a dystopia novel now is probably going to revisit onto ninety four if I need to be aware of what they don't want to repeat. Yeah. I'm reading the wells present the moment on all well criticism, criticizes him because his utopia, a kind of clean and rational, there's no flags and there's no blow to struggle. It's, it's never good ideas. Trump put yourself in someone else's hand. What do you think? Oh, what would recognize the phenomenon of the Brexit party now where it's actually about the pain bring on the misery where equal to it, and it will be some kind of unifying cleansing event. Oh, absolutely. He did understand. He really really understood the appeal of every rationality, and I think that was where he thought the, the Ernie wells, but even the kind of previous dystopia Huxley was wrong, and you can argue a lot about, I think both of them were both bright and wrong appear different different societies at different points in time. But the whole thing there was. We're going to low people with kind of inner with pleasure and clean, glittering surfaces, and uniformity in that is in itself, sort of sinister. We're going to give people are happy life and that's why they will conform and Orwell's science. A Hitler was that he basically owed, he says, I will give you your pain struggle and death and people very excited by that. And I think that is he understood the irrational and actually wells was very, very rational. And you just didn't understand the why people would would go for something like that. It's because we tend not to make that connection between Hitler's offer hit Hitler's retail offered. Jevon people and Churchill's, retail offer, which was blood, sweat, and tears, people surprisingly up for it. You know, people don't always just want a dishwasher and a fridge, and a on a on a quiet life in that is the kind of terrify thing for what liberals Legos we think that, that is what people want. Well, you know, this has an atheist. It's hard onto wrestle with an was pretty much a theorist. He thought that kind of as religion and other theorists of terrorism, set, this is religion sort of Abe down of public life, and lost is kind of central importance is that kind of nationalism took that place is people needed a sense of belonging. And there's all this talk even. Yeah. In the thirties about how capitalism atomised society, and how people are you see themselves as kind of like cokes in the machine, they didn't really know what to believe in, and somebody gives us something to believe in, even if it's kind of terrifying. They will flock to that. And so that was one just one of those insights that you come across the you think will add does not only apply to World War Two. And I think the problem is, is always been relevant age for various points in time, the problem now is this relevant in a much more visceral scary way than when you were just talking about CCTV. Yeah. Finally, we could talk about this all day. I joined the books so much put putting eight coins? Particular concepts is double thing, the memory hold Newspeak. Many of these things that have become so embedded in the people, actually forget, whether they came from is there an element of the kind of one thousand nine hundred four corpus of thought that neglected that we may be a little bit more attention to. Would amazingly considering he wanted to get across ideas. He succeeded very, very well, like the ideas have flown, and even if people kind of misunderstand, some of them that they're out there. There's words out, what I think is, is actually underrated is what it's like is a novel. I think there's definitely been a bit of a cliche, that is actually not that great. It's great ideas, but it's not that great novel and the sort of dreamlike quality at has the sense that you don't know what is real, the kind of he wouldn't use the word at the time. But, you know, the, the consensus being gas lighted and that you don't you know, he downs his own memory, and he doubts facts, and this sort of phantasmagorical quality, which means that you can actually read the novel, as much more sort of mysterious, and unstable than probably your memory of if you read as a teenager when it seems pretty emphatic, and it's not there's a lot of unanswered questions. And there's a kind of real Irina to the psychological state that it conjures up. We should let you get back to you. Real job of presenting the podcast. I'll give let's give it a go. I'm living on. We're going to be selling copies on the websites as well. So I will look, it's incredible read, and we on the team are I have to say it terribly proud of you. Thank you. Finally Oscar maniacs. We usually do it as an exclusive extra podcast available editor patron backers, but it's such a busy week that we do a bit for general audience to hear some of your questions from the past couple of days. Alley quack on Twitter asks this probably won't for me. Do you think the remain vote, people helped or hindered, any of the region's results controversially, they went they, they recommended change in London, didn't they when? Yeah. I didn't think that was the main thing that, that cools the her was conflicting advice from different quarters. I think that was, you know. You know, for the Twitter sphere, remaining acts that was very confusing, but we shouldn't assume that, that is everybody, and of course, most people aren't on Twitter. Most people sadly on, we'll think. We'll think. And what good shape their thumbs because mine are not. But yeah, I think that was confusing Reggina Miller giving advice to just vote lip them or apply to SMP in Scotland, Wales. And then you had remained voter doing their thing. That's why it was written. We just sort of did a poll and provide ciders so that people could calculate it for themselves. But I can understand why it was done. And I think, you know, it was all done in with good intentions, so I'm not knocking anyone for trying it, but I think probably did confused more than it resolved, the frustrations that voters had about who to vote for Ingrid Jonny Saunders asks to what extent do you think the meteoroid session with narrative is contributing to the political chaos? We find ourselves in. Well, I think we talked about how, obviously a, the more interesting than than just no way what you like about them. Creatures? And as with all things an easy headline is, is, is more appealing than the nuance detail enduring things like that. So, so. Yes, inevitably and also on Twitter, I former on Twitter, and that's not necessarily meet Egyptian, but, but, you know, contributors journalists that contribute on, on on Twitter, which is even worse because then it's your diluting it down to of one hundred forty characters. I find myself guessing apoplectic about things that actually, as you said name in the grace. Well people don't read and follow. So I'm guilty that myself sometimes assuming the narrative that she doesn't exist. So forbid narrative, allergic, I think, in that some of the very strong remains were doing that thing. I think it dishonest thing of putting all the labor vote onto the main oil Artan likes journalists to me is kind of like, I, I want to propose some kind of counter narrative, but not to the point where it becomes dishonest. I get that at the same time, you know, they're driving. Buses around the country, saying, three hundred fifty million to their natures so to an extent. But our self doubt, is, is the big weapon, you know, the fact that we discussing everything, and he's this fair. We're saying the first thing and they're going around saying, so Bulgarians to blame. You know, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, so this is Francois with fronts. The next two questions are related Daniel fan. Burson asks if a new Tory leader simply didn't request an extension could parliaments actually block and no deal Brexit and tiny, Jane Parker. Ask irrespective of he wins the two relationship and becomes PM. Is it correct? To think it's unlikely that they could force a new deal Brexit or allow the UK dropout by default little too much. Well to medical of law on October thirty first given that there isn't any support for these outcomes, amongst MP's because this is something that I think has been very confusing for a very long time is the MP's are constantly scare great ruling out. No deal yet. No deal is the default. So is there anything more the parliament can do to actually? Yes, yes, yes, they need to. I think it's a so fourteen standing order fourteen which berko, who is staying on has noted showing given a big source of, you know, wink, at the MP's you might want to use this never. Fourteen remember exists which allows them to legislate mandate. The prime minister to do it, and, and if the permissive fell to than they could no confidence, the government and minority government, the executive could revoke so it is possible. But of course, no deal remains the Defoe. And I think what we've got to remember is that I told us to use the time wisely when he when we got this extension and so far we haven't, and I think all parliamentarians need to wake up and do something to send a warning shot over to Macron, who is only going to gather move support to north send us if we help them build nothing that for political point here that I think, the vast majority of potential Tory leaders even the ones that are saying they want no deal do not want to you. If Boris actually took us to know deal against the wishes of parliament, he wanted to own, it lock stock, and barrel and even five percent doubt in his mind that it could turn into shit. Film. He will want parliament to stop him. That's the point Catherine on Twitter. Asks who would be the best next lib? Dem leader unite remained is actually fewer lib. Dem Hayes than Tory leadership candidate. Look, it's going to be as to raise the first hustings starting on Friday between sir Davey, and Jo swinson. Lila's knocked out. She's not literally she has. She has ruled herself out. She's not going to do it this time, and I think it probably is time for lived to have a woman, they've not yet, and they do have a long tradition of having Scottish leaders. So I think she is very much the front runner, and we'll be the leader. Whether she can unite remain is across the greens, and in a wet conservatives and labour in another's remains to be seen. And I think that's a very important question that Lipton's have to put to both candidates. You know what is your history of doing cost? Course working are you doing it overseas enduring on votes? But are you prepared to do it in some kind of electron alliance manifesto agreement? It's such a we think change would would split because Heidi Allen is the one that's being talking about working with other people when they moved them and the supersedes to be very much against it. I'm not sure where what I might gapes or whatever stance on that. But is that actually conceivable change it self could split and some people could just go to change and UK? No one grabbed. F. K. A T. One of them should take that. But yeah. I mean it just seems like. Could I could well happen? Finally generic outer from Twitter asks with his quickly, what's the best and worst case scenario for Tory leadership? Best case scenario, Ken Clarke, it's the Molin some sort of red wedding type scenario has the murdered doesn't happen. Happen. But with Boris Johnson. I mean, I, I tend to agree with Ingrid. I think Boris could be the best thing that ever happened to remain. Yeah. Worried by rob. Because actually Boris Johnson sort of flexible values mean he's not a committed so of a committed head headline in the way, that rob is he's both a hardline Tory and the hard line Brexit in so empty, he's so empty, I look into his eyes and I see that, you know, one time my water heater, the pilot like wouldn't go on and you just so black through the window. That's rows. Of course, Johnson born, and then general in the leadership contest, and there was the general election, and he lost. Would he be the shortest serving prime minister in, in the history of our country, because that in itself, would be quite thing, isn't it like two month premiership is that your best case that's my best friend. But soon to say today, actually. Fell under a whole. Okay. That's a taste of Astra maniacs. If you'd like some more, we're recording jeans special episode in the next couple of weeks. He's such patron Romania extra sign up and get this exclusive extra podcast more GoldenEye that I'm not saying that the show which means it's Brexit time capsule time Ingrid's being away for ages. She gets to something to go in our underground bunker of things will miss or need if we ever leave the EU I will say, I'm officially here. We're not seeing my membership. The conservative policy is very important. I was doing it for you guys. I just kind of like that's what Campbell said. Just been Cussing a little bit of welfare. As a little touchy hilltops there. What's going in the icing? I think I always get the, the thrust of this wrong. Somebody's gonna put general Bassin's in capsule. But I think what I mean by that is, aspect is gone enough picture, just a little general button, just like that was a that was England. Hopefully that's the that's the thing. That's gone. It's when it's not good things. Repressing in fica. Yeah. Just like remember, when they go on little file of Tommy Robinson's, tears. That would be good. Yeah. Something about not just laundryman will means to be a bit not bitten by not saying and then file of Tomi Robinson's convictions. Don't have time for your language, clip this week, frayed rule the election news, but we'll have one next time until then thanks to Ingrid naming Alex. Thanks, everyone for listening now pre silence for our theme, tune deemed as a monster by corner shop and a roll-call of some of our latest patron backers. Hello. And thanks for me to Leo Smallwood Nutley Griffith Emiliano, para Jonathan Blaine James sit down next to us, rob rollin. Campbell no longer in the labour Percy Chris Higgins, has alleged and Michael craven. Thanks for me to Matthew Asher, Ben Phillips, Heather Wilfred, Matthew Keenan, Emily, pretty Anita Simmons, Paul Jones, Phillip Daniels. J smith. Mike Taylor and Halley from meets you. Gareth lynam. Jacob McDonald, rich McFarland, Matt white Christopher Milton Tim Langdon, Katie. Mahindra. Mico canning, Bergot yawns and David Smith. Thanks to Terry city. Stephen Brown Daniel Gibbons, Michael hardy, Shelly Butuan, Kenny Dixon, Paul Edward McQuillan. Helen Fisher, Matthew Anderson and I'm not giving my name through machine quite right to from big brother is watching you. We'll see you next week. Romania was presented by during linski with Naomi Smith. Ingrid Oliver and Alex Andrey. The producer is Andrew Harrison and audio production, was by main Elsie bath at SoHo radio. Romania is a pod masters production. And now an ad from dad. All right. Save money on car insurance. When you bundle home and auto with progressive gotta take these off, right? What is this, this looks good? Wow. Where did you get this? I'm talking to you with the hair. Yeah. Where did you get this good stuff, solid? That's not the near that solid stuff. 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