Film Session | He Got Game
Today's episode of no Dunks has brought to you by remarkably remote a new daily microcosm from gotomeeting all about making work from home. Where for you with indispensable Intel on how to stay sane motivated and productive at home. We're here to help you in this brave new remote working world. Add to your flash briefing on Alexa. Subscribe on your favorite podcasting APP. Good morning sweet world and welcome to the no dunks podcast on the athletic network. It's Friday may twenty second. This is film session and today were breaking down. Nineteen thousand nine hundred ninety eight spike Lee joint. He got game. I'm Jay skeets alongside me. Thanks to the power of technology tasks Mus. Yes everybody he tassie. We got the beard. One Trey Kerby. Hey the man making the magic happen. Gdp hello there is and finally roll-call we have a surprise fifth man here. Today are very special. Guest is co host of the athletics here. The deer bucks podcast. He's CO founder of Count. The dings that NBA Wu Tang collective. You guys all know and love. He's a teacher so everybody sit up straight in his real name Trayvon Edwards. Who you likely know him as Black. Trae. What's up man? What's going on guys? Are you doing appreciate you joining us here this morning and talk a little? He got game. But before we lace up our Jordan thirteen's a little housekeeping guys. Email us your questions and comments to know dunks at the athletic dot com for next week's beach step in podcast always oblast. Speaking of podcast. If you haven't already make sure you check out the two classics. We dropped on Thursday. We had an awesome time talking to USC Journalists Aerial Halawani. And then later in the day we caught up with our good friend. Kelly Dwyer to discuss game six the movie and the last dance and he played a sweet. Little Guitar. Licks which was very fun. Follows on social media guys both twitter and Instagram at no dunk. Zinc Lee had a huge guest on pop impacts yesterday. We we had to give lead the day off because he went forty nine minutes on pop impacts with rockets. Gm Daryl Morey I Shit you not. He had him on for forty nine minutes on instagram. Live yesterday opening up an old pack basketball cards and and talking about everything so lease exhausted. You had to get black train here today. And you guys know. We're on facebook at FACEBOOK DOT com slash. No dunks Inc. I guess it's official. We're now on facebook okay into the movie here in film session again. Nine hundred ninety eight. He got game written and directed by Spike Lee Stars of course Denzel Washington and Ray Allen The IMDB synopsis. A basketball players. Father must try to convince them to go to college so he can get a shorter sentence. Black trade earlier this week. I tweeted that he got game. Was GOING TO BE THIS. Friday's movie and you re tweeted it with tag me in for this one so that can only mean one or two things one. You really love this movie and are excited to talk about it or be. Maybe you dislike this movie and it's one of those movies that's fun to clown. So which one is it Black Trae? I think I'm in the middle. The time when he rolled out I was like obviously spike Lee. Everything Denzel everything and I also like that ninety seven class but as I watch it. Watch it in twenty twenty it's kind of laughable but again I tried to try to keep that ninety eight I and you know it didn't hit the same as it would have as what in particular didn't hit the same. If if you had to pick rail ray. Our admiral was really bad He's stuck out really that in twenty twenty. Yeah that's funny. You say that I remember people writing at the time like you know something along the lines of reality just delivered the best performance ever put on film by a pro athlete and I. You know watching this again. I'm with you. I think he holds zone at times. Especially sort of and scenes with Denzel. Maybe that's because Denzel Washington's carrying them in those scenes and then other times it's really rough and like look you're asking a guy that's a professional basketball player to act in a movie here that's not easy and have a lot of lines into and to get that across on film there. Were there were moments where you're like. Oh this is this is bad white tree. I guess I'll call you white trae for this. What do you think of Ray Allen's acting performance? Yeah you're exactly right skates. It wasn't just people saying that rail and put in a great performance. Was Roger Ebert saying that rail and put it in a performance here so I think the reputation for the past twenty. Two years is that rate kills. It and there are some scenes where he does but there are some scenes where it looks like the Guy. Learn how to act in eight weeks and then had to carry almost every scene. And that's the crazy thing to me. Is that for a guy who had never acted before? There are so many scenes almost solo scenes right. There are obviously a lot of crossover scenes with Denzel but there are so many scenes. I feel like that Ray is the protagonist in every scene by himself and that is a lot of pressure for a guy who learned how to act in two months. It's not like you would teach somebody to play basketball for two months and they'd be like all right now you've got to be the starting. Shooting Guard for the Utah Jazz. You know doesn't really work the other way. So there's a certainly a learning curve to it and I think ray is good in some of the scenes and then some of them. You're just like all you're doing is player on your nostrils man. Yeah I mean spike. The story GOES SPIKE ORIGINALLY WANTED. Kobe right to play the part of the shuttle's worth and Kobe like the script. He was excited to work with Spike Lee. As you would but he just finished his rookie year there and had a bad playoff loss to put it kindly to the jazz. When he's on the Lakers had all those airballs and so he I think at that moment was GonNa get back into the gym. I got to be better for the the long grueling. Nba Season so he passed on it. And then and then spike went with Ray Allen Black trae. It would be weird to see this. It'd be fascinating. I guess trying to picture Kobe in this role is almost more difficult than than breaking down. Ray Allen in it I think I think he would have been to over sophisticated. Try too hard And I liked that. I liked the rawness a railing. So again I I won't bash him too much. I could said yet. Eight weeks to to really Kinda get it together and then also even still a little bit of Stefan Marberry Life Kind of hard to cast him as well. So in a scenario they did mentioning. You know During the big time speech But outside of that like again you get what you get ninety eight. You can't is. Kinda like heavily star studied in there. Because it's a lot of people in there now But I definitely would've liked more scenes from actually the professional actors in kind of carry rail and movie versus a heavy robe. Right right skeets. You had them in your top five basketball actors. If I'm not mistaken are you're starting five right the but not to do with acting to that. Yeah my fictional basketball movie ballers yeah. He's in there so nothing to do with actors. If you regretted that decision definitely nothing to do with acting I. There are still not that many professional actors or professional athletes. Who are better actors than Ray Allen? I mean it took until basically uncut gems or maybe you would argue. Train Wreck Lebron for somebody to put in a decent enough performance that it doesn't just seem like a professional athlete being an actor. Yeah and like you said. Tk It's like he's to do a lot. I mean he really is asked to carry a lot of scenes and he doesn't decent job. You know you roll your eyes a couple of times. Okay maybe could have gotten a little bit more from your there ray but Yeah you're right it wasn't bad. Jd that you've never watched this movie right first time watching game time. So what did you think so? As far as Ray Allen goes as an actor. I thought he was fine. I mean having met Ray Allen and I think we've interviewed him. Just the ones is that right when we an all star weekend. Yeah he liked. He was talking about his jim his dream of opening a gym track post Career so I'm sure that's going to happen soon wasn't an WHO's an actual a workout gym exactly. But he he sort of didn't we had asked him a couple of questions leading up to that he gave the most sincere answer. We've ever gotten with our jokey questions like he was really dug into it thought about it and laid. It laid out his plans for after the after he was retired and he just seemed to. I thought that he didn't get it. He didn't get that we were doing a bit and I thought wow I don't I don't see how this guy can act how he can carry a movie. And and how old was he when he was shot this too? I mean he's just a kid and having never acted before acting for Spike Lee. What an intimidating to situation be and I thought he did a pretty good job. You know you watch these movies and you sort of suspend your disbelief ago. Okay it's ray out you know like it's he's about he's not an actor so let's give him a pass you know so that was fine with it. What is your favorite scene in this movie tasks diso wants to go to while I was just thinking others. There's a few I was just thinking about. When ray wasn't really extended into an acting role and he could just sort of be his dweeby south when the article gets pulled out of the stock of one of the players and then we get the intros dissolves into the team intros and raise raise. I love that scene embrace just sort of his. You know kind of straight shooter self. But that's that's who he is and that's and that's I think what. Jd's talking about when he just he doesn't have to. He doesn't have to act. And and you know up against Walter McCarty and Travis best who I had thought about four billion years it was it was cool and I thought that was a great technique by Spike Lee. The guys talking trash after win. Newspaper article comes out and dissolves into the team intros. That was wicked John Wallace on the team to John. That's one of my favorite scenes and this whole movie. It's just shot so cool and you're right. It's like fun. It looks awesome even like back ninety eight. It was so cool. I think it's still hold up. That seed now is the Lincoln splitters black trade. You have a favorite scene. Is that one. There's other ones out there. Man is so many again this is when I was actually playing a basketball so like trying to imitate everything like I wanted this to be. My Life I think now at thirty five the big time speech because he was really just kind of breaking down and I think players could still learn that from that movie But from thirteen years old trae it would probably be when he's like doing his little sizzle reel and he's like basketball has like poetry and emotion. You cross the cross right. Hit the join printer. Face Swish in the crowd goes wild like that gives me chills because like it just takes me back until like plan days in like one and a half that moment of having a ball on being a man that you also but you like now you said The big time. What's his name big time? Willie right that through is amazing. Sorta hated but also. Yeah the bore. You kept talking like Whoa. He's breaking this down. He's telling you everything everything in this car right. Yeah very authentic. So I think that was like the hidden undertone by Strana. Give off and it's like it is constant every day because you know Young athletes get drafted. They washed their family change. You know what I mean in in. It's interesting because you know a a your favorite cousin who you probably. She ate hot dogs. We when you're five now thinks you need to give them a ten thousand dollar business loan for or you're you're great niece the payer rant ten minutes before tip off like these. Are these players have to deal with constantly? And he's like calling them bloodsuckers in you know like it's just tons of temptations in. How can you maintain a professional career and do it clean without the without the extra stress? Yeah will yeah. He's like he's warning them of everything. The drugs the sex and like you said the the leeches which are basically like the people. Maybe you would least expect. It's your family. He also gave off his own little. Like yeah nobody on the streets would be messing with you because I told him. Don't mess with Jay man. I thought that was hilarious. Because it's like everybody wants to say gates something to with four him like like. Hey I don't want nothing but I really do want something big time. Willies big time. Tommy before big time thank go wrong. Jesus it's big time Willie Trae trae what'd you do? You have a favorite scene in this movie. I mean I'm with you guys when they are announcing the starting lineup for the rail splitter. I think it's great. I don't remember exactly who it is. Who says I feel handsome when I'm on the court and the exact way? Yeah I guess. He's about mid card on the handsome level of the starting five. But I also love Lincoln Lincoln roll-call classic moment who didn't do that on the bus during high school basketball. That was a must but my favorite scene as a fourteen year old as thirty six year old is the visit to tech. You Rick Fox is there with the backwards KANGOL TUCKED IN SHIRT. And honestly you know twenty years later. I'm still wondering how Jesus ends up at big state. I can't believe Chick-fil-a on campus at tech in the nineties honestly ridiculed in that scene. It was so good. I think I've seen some some Rick Fox acting performances but I think that's the best one. Maybe he was acting a lot like himself but he killed Jaydee. I don't want to jump right to the but I'm going to jump right to the end because this is a big part of this movie that I think a lot of people do have problems with It's the ending and it's this. It's a little strange I remember reading it when I was a kid. I remember loathing. The ending of he got game And so I was coming at this. I was trying to look at this differently this time as an older man and like what was I missing. What's the symbolism here and what I'm talking about of course is really it's Jake. He's he's imprisoned. He's back in prison. Throws the ball over the prison wall. After you know you think you might get shot. He's stepping out of bounds there and all that and then this ball magically ends in big State University where ray goes and grabs it again. This is a polarizing ending to a movie. Like what is the saying here? Am I missing? Something is too cheesy as it. Just right will start with you. Jd and definitely get everybody's opinion on this. What do you think the ending is it cheesy a s? I think it is was it in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. I don't know I didn't watch it but forty nine year old. Jd thought it was good. I mean it this is. This is the connection that father has to son. Right. I'm this is sort of the the redemption that we were looking for Jake and Jesus is relationship right and they mended their fences through the game of basketball. And I think that's that was the connection that was made in that final climactic one on one scene. Jake didn't get what he wanted but but did he. I mean because he. He reconnected with his son and he was able to give him that. Final piece of fatherly advice and be an actual father to him after being absent for so long and and after pushing him for so hard and really pushing him away the night that his he the jake murders Jesus is. Mother is the night that Jesus quits basketball right HE QUITS. He he he. He pushes him so hard that he decides that he's I'm quitting the game. He does the unthinkable by throwing the ball over the fence and And I think there's a connection to that scene with Jake throwing it over the prison wall but but his son catches it and is it. Is it a little bit grade? Ten Films School Maybe Spike Lee makes me feel like I'm watching student films a lot of times like going. Wow He's really he's really a sledgehammer to me right now or I don't understand what he's doing with this at all. You know what I mean like the. There's there's never an inbetween for me. But I liked the ending as a father I found. I found the story between Jesus and Jake the most compelling part of the movie as it should be and and you know I was happy I was obviously not happy that he stuck in prison and but I am happy that they that they came to a relationship with Jesus sitting there reading a letter from his father while all this is happening and he had never opened any letters from him at all and he had been sent hundreds. So it's it's it's like a closure. I guess I liked it black TRAE. What do you think yeah I have to piggyback off that It definitely had some. You know back then. I was like this is corny. Wait understand like again. I'm not I'm not a father but I do understand how important to connection nothing. Jake was at peace after tossing the ball. Like look if I gotta sit down for the rest of my life. At least my son knows how I really feel about him in the fact that he got to hear you know that that letter be read it was like finally like. I just wanted him to forgive me. You're not because he was like you know son. He's trying to teach trying to teach him a lesson like about like yes. I made a mistake in our hope that you've you find in your heart to forgive me. He's like I'm never forgiven you into movie. And it seems that towards the end in a movie he does forgiving and Jake can just kinda not rotten risen but it just kinda like he has a piece of mind kind of moving on because that was kind of like the Internal Clark killing him right and yeah it just it. It's it's a deep message. You know what I mean especially like house by portrayed it you know what I mean like Jake was in his life. It wasn't like he was absentee. Father like this situation happen. Gave his mom like a hard show. She hit her head on the stove. Like handle definitely an accident but like and it wasn't even like a domestic violence situation making just Kinda like Oh Dang because they put me in a situation always kind of constantly played at in my head to like you can be play fighting with anyone. An accident happen. I was like I knew anything that was like a real situation. Like this could actually happen. So you know Definitely tons of life lessons tall in. Yeah I thought it was cool. I I did think it was like how is impossible for Jesus to catch it in arena. The part I almost wish spike stopped on the throwing of the ball. Oddly and then maybe just show US J. Jesus in the gym but this you know the ball literally falling out of the rafters is like the part where. You're just like really. Do we need that? I think we were going to get to that. Oh Yeah I was causing it and searching as closely as I could in the concourses was. There's somebody out there. They both knew that this was happening at the same time. But you know I think it really ties up the movie with a Nice Little Bo. We've got maybe ten minutes earlier. Jacobs telling Jesus I'm teaching you get that anger out of your heart. And he is teaching in that. But he's also teaching himself that they're both bonding together. Jake is at peace with his situation. Despite the fact that it didn't turn out how he wanted. Jesus I think the same way and I think there's a little symbolic there as well with Jesus where the Jordan thirteenth as he's naming the court for big state. Yeah I had noticed that Nice Little Nice little addition there for sure. I love that you guys brought it up to the final one on one scene between Jesus and Jake playing for the you know. The letter of intent is so damn good. It's so good. I'm sure you guys know but maybe some of the listeners note the original script called for Jesus to win that thing fifteen. Oh so for him to kick his dad's ass and that didn't happen. Because Spike encouraged the actors Denzel and Allen to like just play play real so this will hopefully come across a little bit better on the film and Dental started getting buckets and he is throwing up some prayers. He actually drives on the one time which is pretty impressive but he banks home a couple that are just there and I think like you know. The crew onset is starting to laugh. I think Denzel takes a lead in this game. And everyone's like Whoa. Whoa WHOA and then of course rail turns it on a little bit and you get You know him kicking his ass but I love I love. How shot the music. I know we'll get into that is incredible and was really had totally forgotten about when I was a kid watching. This final scene is is fantastic tasks. I assume you're a fan of that one on one basketball season I was. I think that was a great decision by Spike Lee. To essentially just use that basketball scene and then the sexy montage stuff that black trae mentioned earlier about the a you type stuff like he just left going right basically you either just got a one on one move or you got this one on one game in this movie. There wasn't a lot of basketball scene. There wasn't a high school basketball scene. Where you kind of just fell asleep like this guy is GonNa pass it over here. You know it was. It was a good to just have very very limited basketball and so I was totally into the scene. The drive that Denzel scored on Jesus as Jesus drowned. Obviously just let him score. He scored with his left hand on the right side of the WHO and it was like a scoop shot like he could have blocked with his forehead if he really wanted to decided to. Just let them score but yeah it was powerful. I think what I didn't like about that scene going into the ending was denzel gets coughed up and is being brought away. Any says to him. Hey the ball's in your court now type type thing basically. That's that's what he said it. If it wasn't literal something to that effect and then the ball gets tossed to him in the final scene. I'm a man who loves stuff on the nose but even that is a little too on the nose for me. I mean that's just but that seen yet extremely powerful and I I hadn't seen in so long I had forgotten both the one on one scene and I think it trump's the love and basketball one on one seat in the end it was a little bit more impactful than than Monica and Omar. Epps going at it. Yeah it is. It's I think it's one of the best one one scenes we've seen on film for sure because it feels it does feel real. It's being shot on this huge crane. There talking trash blackberry. What do you think de Ngel Denzel? Washington's jump shot. I mean let's break this down. What do you think of his release? I didn't love his form but at least I'm not a shot doctor. I'm not I'm big on lungs. It goes in. I don't even think my shot is even like the most purest jump shot in three hours and maybe been macklemore have like a amd Bradley. Bill has a beautiful form in his narrow. Like I don't know but he went in. It was really seen like. I think about the YMCA. When I think when I see his jumper the older guys the shooting I over there is whole style like even me watching our live. Tweeden last night. I'm just like the fashion was just kinda crazy life for Dinsdale to wear to shirts. Michael referred under like is at the edge the sweat like I don't. I don't know what was going on like the double knee braces. Maybe got bad knees or whatever but it was just interesting. Look than Jesus actually war overall short set off a look battling was right and actually attempted that in over on that was like oversize with the Asia and under and some timberland boots. And I'm just like I. I mean I'm I'm from Compton California so I looked nuts doing it maybe maybe was the thing in New York City. I don't know The those gene overall those were so they were cut low on Ray there. I remember my Buddy Griffin. Trying to rock the overalls strafford Ontario for summer. But I don't remember it'd be on that low the one off right like the one on untied on one on clip to look but yeah those are thought rays were kind of more fitted than you'd ever see overall like they weren't that baggy and that's hard to do for Ray Allen whose rail thin maybe the war draft person screwed up or something. You know what I thought. He looked pretty good. I thought he kind of pulled off that overall. Look I don't know let. Let's talk about the music jd. I'm really interested to hear your take on this with your expertise in sound production and all that were you shocked. Surprised with American composer Aaron Copland. I was surprised. Yeah considering he had been dead for eight years. The movie came out but Yeah I thought I want first beuing. I always just sit blind and I watch not knowing anything and then I was like wow. Is that hoedown during a basketball montage. I mean is this Aaron Copeland really I mean like so I went back and I and I looked. I looked it up and and I had A. I had a lot a lot of problems with the music and some of the scenes. I thought that there were scenes. That had that sort of pastoral Americana under it like when Jesus is talking to marry in her bedroom and there's music wiser music there or when Dakota and Jake meet for the first time in her room. And there's just this nonstop it's almost like a drone and it's too much but I thought hoedown worked great. I thought the opening montage of the people playing basketball across America with the most American sounding music of all time at think that that piece is called What is it I wrote it down John Henry And you know. I dug a little deeper and John Henry african-american railway worker folk hero who literally goes up against a machine. A literal machine Digging holes or he would pound a stake into the into the Rock and and there was a steam engine that did the same thing and and basically had a contest that he went up against any beat the machine but then he died. The at the the effort of beating that machine ends up killing him. Is that relevant to the story? I mean you can definitely glean some meaning out of it. I mean Jesus is going up against the NC double a machine and he beats it in the end. I guess will kill him. Well probably not but think spike said basically when I think of of Aaron Copeland I think of America and that's what this story is about America and American masked ball and The position of that sort of you know cowboy. Danson hoedown music with the with the inner city Basketball being played. I thought it was great either. Worked AWESOME AND AT THE END. The as you said Pointed out skeets the final one on one. The music was so guests over that I it was just just. I don't know if they while they obviously edited that way. I don't know if they planned it that way but but just it's like riding the roller coaster of Jake's emotion that whole time and I love that part of it and then of course get the public enemy songs and I think there's a cares one song in the in this movie as well trae. What'd you think of the musical overall respected legends curious? One is like me hearing at our. No you know public enemy our respect. All those legends is beyond me because I think at that time I was probably like Jay Z demands. So it's Kinda hard to go up against the a different style but also do understand like those spice guy is so he's to plug them for and he's kind of. He's kind of loyal to his core. So I get it I mean I don't I don't really kinda fired up on that. I mean I think the the only association to this movie that I really got from like hip hop may be Joel since Anna Join West the game missing and it has the Anna at any goes into the beat and I was just like Oh. That's he got game but anything else associated with the you know but I couldn't watch that video actually. I tried to watch last night to like the public. We're has where palm in a ball and a video and stuff like I started. This movie. Like you send. Jd that first scene where we see all walks of life in America playing basketball and we have that crazy. It is that John Henry a competition from Aaron Copeland. So that's on Nora's in the other room so fired up this movie. And she's like what old tiny horror flick are you want because it is haunting? Sounds old. It's It's weird this jarring but it does work. I really liked the old music in this movie to be honest watching it as an older guy. I thought it was pretty cool. Task Trae opinions on the music hated. It liked it. Some of the some of the choices were odd Tread saying you would expect to hear Jay Z. And in a in a basketball movie in one thousand nine hundred eighty no doubt about it but I also thought it was so effective. I think like you guys are the opening credits. You Watch that the music is perfect and you WanNa go play basketball afterwards. The last one on one scene is perfect and I even think the middle one on one scene where we ultimately see jake killed. Jesus mother I think the music is so great in that too because they're just playing basketball you know they're having an intense one on one game and then the music and Denzel changed just like a tiny little bit right just like five percent different and suddenly. Denzel is very scary. I think that that that the way he was acting and music with it. I thought it was perfect. You went from a dad and a son having fun playing basketball to the worst night of both of these guys lives just like that. I thought that was awesome. It does a great job telegraphing. What's about to happen? It's just filled with dread and we haven't even gone back to the apartment yet. You know what I mean. We know Jesus has his his breakdown and I wish that they had shown Jake was really scary that night. I think that they were trying to say that he was drunk and I wish he seemed a little drunker than he was. And the I feel like a pardon. The Pun pulled the punch a little bit When the murder scene happens because it just comes off as just a a horrific accident. There's no intent to kill right shows just like there was. There's another scene later in the movie that I thought would have been a little better beforehand. Where Jake Confronts La and then he ends up beating the shit out of De'andre and he is terrifying in that state? It's so powerful and I wish. We had seen that Jake before we saw the the mother getting murdered seem only because it could. It could still play out the way a plate out but we know that there is definitely a temper on jake and a violent side. Jake and he's he can be a really scary guy and I don't think that we really saw that until The De'andre getting beaten up saying right. So then you're left going. I mean you get it. You're like Damn T- did accidentally kill your mom but you're like Jesus come on like is he. That bad guy is hard on you and I'm with you. I did Straw without watching this again. I was like wow like from all we're seeing. You hate a man. You hate this much. Really like he does seem like he's he's he's a hard ass. I get that but it seems like a loving father and you've got your family there and they seem in love. You like what we're what we're getting. Yeah I duNno black traded. You also feel that way or not not really but also gone for the majority of his all his teenage years too so that whole absence and stuff like that is just. It's a gap to gap. I mean I I don't know I mean you got bubba to who who hasn't been mentioned. Who reminds me of a current father in the NBA? Yeah don't let listeners figure that one out but yeah he just I don't know so just because he's not there. I mean because of an accident again and unfortunately the timing of that night where he's hates his father and he's done with basketball and then the death of his mother again an accident this this works well enough that there would be this very very distant and untrusting relationship. I guess is what you're saying is what you're at least getting from the movie. Yeah I mean 'cause 'cause when you're young the narrative has pushed wrong you know you never know. Obviously his uncle stepped. And before you know probably a you or boosters came in and said here Jesus you know we're just helping you and normally in in certain communities. They're like yeah. I'll take all the help. I can get a west to catch. And there was catch until he actually found out. Uncle was driving his new car and all well because he doesn't Bubba does ask Jesus to I want to wet my beak like you'd literally says to him. I want you to pay me for all everything that I've done so far before the car happens right. I mean yeah so I think day you know Bubba and his wife pushed narrative that you know jake is a bad man from bats and you should look at him as you know this this evil person so when you know obviously the daughter has a different sentiment towards Jake because you know he didn't she was to either too young to kind of think that through or you know she just has a undying love for him but you know what Jesus is like man. I've I've I've been without you. I don't need you. I've been kind of. I am taking care of my sister. We've got a place to live your making sure that she's good. She's going to be good because obviously Probably GonNa make today and things of that nature So yeah like. Don't try to come around. Obviously his situation he's dealing with tons of trust issues too as well guy has girlfriend sneaking our de'andre who's a family friend you got dom PAG naughty Got To high school coach. I think the only solid purse was bigger. Yeah yeah that's right. Yeah it across the. I don't have a pro. I don't have a problem with anything you just said. But as an audience member you meet Denzel in prison. He's he's Denzel Washington. He's a super charismatic guy. He seems like a good guy and we're not seeing this bad side of him. This potentially dangerous side of him until after we see the murder scene and the Mur as you know. The Aunt. Sally and Uncle Bubba share they. They weren't there they're all they know is that that. Jake killed there. Her sister in his sister-in-law But I felt like we needed to see Denzel. Jake be scary earlier. You know what I mean. That's that's the only criticism I have in that department but be honest. Gd In watching for the first time. Did you think that Jake had shot? Somebody? Let's say when we find out that he's imprisoned because he killed somebody we don't know who he killed right or how it. I didn't know I thought I thought it was serious. For sure would whatever he did and then they just sort of mentioned it. I thought the way that it unfolded y. The way we find out what happened is pretty is pretty good actually because it just comes up casually in conversation almost as just like well. Yeah you know I killed your mother you know and it's just like what why you know and and the way we of course find out the circumstances behind it and it sort of not. It's A. It's an accident but But still he is responsible. He did push her But yeah it's it did seem like a like it was a more serious charge than than than we thought so test. Besides Denzel Zeke. Who is he's incredible in this? Who's your favorite character in? This movie from the secondary tertiary characters is a big time. Willie is it uncle bubba somebody else. Yeah I loved Uncle Bubba. I thought he was He was gray definitely looked a lot. Like Eddie Murphy and What the Hell's. The movie called is not where he played. Every single character nutty professor. He looked like any he. There was an Eddie Murphy vibe. Maybe it's the glasses but he was. He was incredible. I thought he he he was. He was forceful and he was. He was he was asking for what he wanted. And he was pretty pumped about that. Lexus and I wasn't a fan of some of those spike Lee shots. We got some crazy shots of tight. Uncle Bubbas mouth and he was talking. Like what are you doing with? Let's get off that mouth. We had a double head like there was a poetry reading happening. There was spinning camera when Denzel was sick and But yeah uncle Bubba I think a Lotta great characters even Gaudy the the Italian agent. I guess he was in his Little tendencies I was gold. Forget about silver. Forget about platinum diamonds. That's like speed and power in the NBA. You can tell this guy knows basketball. Was that guy an actor. Was that guy a real agent. What Nora was convinced? He's like there's no way that guy's an actor he's a real agent that they said. Hey just say. Jd things here. I don't know what about you. Black trade you have like a secondary character in this movie. That really liked SIP. Rogers yeah the Seabra Projects Man I just I was. I was all about SIP. Rogers me and I can't wait. I if if there was a sequel. I would love to know what's Rogers happened. What happened with hip? Rogers I wanted to know I wanted him to make he was next up and to answer your question. Don is a fictional character. He also was used an NBA two K. That's same active. A there's tons of agents like that you know what I mean. Probably Lenny Cook. But what about you? Jd character sector he liked. Wow I kinda hate it. All the the the secondary characters that I liked Rick Fox playing Rick Fox I guess I liked Delilah. I mean she's good A little one dimensional. I think all the women in this movie are pretty one dimensional A lot of the secondary carrier characters are just sort of a get central casting on the phone. We Need A. We need a sports agent Ono sports agents. Okay semi a used car salesman. You know what I mean like But Yeah I guess if if if Jake is the main character then Jesus is my favorite other character because again I really loved the the relationship between the two of them. My favorite scene of the whole thing is when when Jacobs telling Jesus where the name? Jesus came from from What's WHO Earl Earl. The Pearl Right. I just I love that reveal and then I love that the very next scene is tech you and they put up all the the religious imagery in this Israel. And it's just like it's not that Jesus guys it's an just. It's it's a very powerful way to cheapen all of that. You know to make that whole pitch. Jesus feel Super cheap and superficial you know and So yeah that's what I liked white trae. What about you for a secondary character who I would like? I would agree with Jd. You know who really is the lead in this movie is at Denzel or is it Ray. Because it's a real tossup between those I also thought Jim Brown was pretty good. He's a great speaking athletes. And Yeah that was pretty cool to see him in that role. I love the scene where him and the other the other parole officer come to visit Jake in his his hotel unease at making grill. Jesus with an ironing board and an iron and I just thought that was great. I think four if you're talking about professional act athletes who actors Jim Brown. He kills it and he's effective every single time. Yeah I WANNA TO SPIN OFF. Movie of just him and crude up. I would watch the hell out of that. I love those two guys together. I love them in every season. They're so good all right. Let's get to some random observations. I gotTA I. It's very important question. I'll start with you black TRAE. What's worse to shoot on double rims or a net with no Mesh? We see both of them in this movie. Can I say yes John Room for me I? I've always grew up. Had No like no net is just Kinda just here's away and no one's replaces him. But W I man I did everything possibly do for this shot to go in. And somehow it's rattles. You believed that Steph. Curry in his in his brother grew up shooting on that. And that's how they got good shooting. It really helps with your arc. No doubt shooting on a double rim. You GotTa get that thing. Perfect for it to drop okay. I want someone to clarify something for me. Maybe I missed. It might be an idiot. Why did jake get sick in the car? If I thought he was I thought he was faking it. Getting sick I miss something or was like did he actually get sick because he just eat prison food. Like I guess that makes say gave him something along. The Ward says something like It's not a I. Don't trust your acting ability but we have to make seeing focused on me that that makes a little more sense. No but it's it is confusing and it's like the it's it's so quick cut and We see him in the in the in the dining area. Just wolf down this food and then you know all of a sudden it just. There's a lot happening all at once. I didn't notice and I had the same question and then I went back and watch it again. Wow He's really committed to this bit legit making himself Puke in the car. I think you're good. You're out of jail man but okay. That makes a little more sense. Can we talk about the fought in? He got game those credits. I know it's the late ninety S. Maybe that was cool. That thought that might be my least favorite thing about this movie. Aided maybe on the loan I don't know why I'm going. Back looking at the font. It's brutal on my favorite. But you know I guess they were trying to go for something a little more hand-drawn I don't know it looks. It looks weird though another one a scene I did not remember watching this as a kid and I. It is powerful. It's emotional but it is a little weird. The scene where Jake is making with his dead wife's Tombstone Adia. Wow I in for about that scene. You'll see that often but again it's it's supposed to be of course he's missing her and stuff like that and drop the flowers and stuff like that but he like legit like makes with the tombstone of their. We'll get that cool crane shot the other thing I have. Maybe you guys have random observations. Did you see spike trolling the Bulls with the newspaper headline near the end of the movie? Where it says Jordan held to ten points and I assume it's against the Knicks. And you know I had hit basketball reference to check. Mj only score ten points or less. Well I'll make it a trivia question. How many times did he did score? Ten points or less as a bulls player not is wizards. Here's what would you guess fifteen backtrack and he guesses nine tasks gotta go low just because just because it's Michael Six. Keep going lower guys. Mj only score ten points or less as a Chicago Bulls player twice twice in his career. And he did it. I think he did it. Eighteen Times a wizards player. Unfortunately but we don't. We know that doesn't didn't happen. So yeah never against the Knicks score ten against the Hawks in March and ninety seven and he scored just eight against the cavs in eighty. Six only sixteen minutes played. He got injured in that one But anyway yeah that was that was spike. I think troll in there any other random observations or questions or anything else. You guys want to bring up about this movie. It's awesome when Jake goes to buy a pair of Jordan's and he's amazed that they're a hundred and fifty dollars like his mind is blown that they could cost this much. That same pair of shoes. It's one hundred ninety now. Jake you're going to have to ask the officers for a little bit more. Danielle was actually watching that scene. She said one hundred forty bucks at that time was a lot now. Actually there's a lot but a couple of years later everybody was popping off two hundred dollar shoes Vince. Carter's two hundred bucks. Hundred forty was actually not crazy. I love to be able to get them for one hundred and forty now. There's no jobs in this movie. Unfortunately we do of course get a booger. Thanks for the question. Would you rather be named Booger or Jesus? Yeah I had that in my notes to Jesus worrying about his perceived Biblical name in his damn cousin is called. Boettger got pretty easy man to be fair. Jesus his given name bigger true. Uncle Bubba did not name his burger. I hope maybe maybe yeah. That's good point. That's a good point off. Jesus I'd rather be named Jesus for sure booger I mean. It doesn't doesn't young Jesus Point. Let's because you eat all your boogers. That's exactly right. We've also had a great run for nine hundred ninety eight sportscenter. He got game obviously has the fake nineteen ninety eight sportscenter but the last dance has a fake nineteen ninety eight sportscenter and a real nine thousand nine hundred eight sportscenter thought. It was very funny to see. George Carlin that montage people talking about Jesus because George Karl? Actually did get coaching later. Ray Right. I'd forgotten about that. Yeah what did you think that the little ESPN piece? They'RE BLACK TRAE. Where we get all the college coaches we get some NBA guys. What in there and I think Miller's in there and maybe Jordan Mj's what of that. I thought it was cool. I mean it showed some transparency like this kinda like it's Kinda real and then also you know we actually got a taste of it in real life with the nickname. The nickname era. When the Jesus Shuttles were Miami Heat Jerseys right excite so that was actually cool experience to Kinda like try to translate it into something real. I mean everybody. Kinda hyping up this kid. Because at that time it really was pre internet and would not pre Internet Internet The rankings exposure was just kinda slim to none. You had to actually go and watch these kids so you're ESPN Talkin about a Jesus. Shuttles were probably wanted. A wild is names that time to be doing it. Seeing Coney Island you know is pretty cool. Yeah and then like not only the ESPN piece. But we see like the sports illustrated cover. We see the slam cover Yeah I did like that decision. That really obviously make it as realistic as possible. How insane is that sports illustrated cover if you really think about it? They're putting a high school kid. Seventeen eighteen years old on across with a crown of thorns illustrated three. Yeah for sure for sure anything else. Guys We'll get to grading this movie so don't worry about that yet. But any other random observations or questions or stuff like that. I want to know why Kota is in the movie. Yeah I win. Why is she there I just don't understand it and So I'm just asking The the hooker with a heart of gold. The May as well Turned to the camera and say I don't do drugs. I'm claim right. Well why what's the point of all the okay was? He made a connection with her. I guess and you know. Spent the night with her. And that's nice and stuff but I don't understand why she was. There made the movie way longer. Well yeah the movies long. The movie is long. It was long and there is premature ejaculation as well and could have salad. Won't do that but I'd be like and sorry to like I guess jump in on this one but I did like a Dakota's pimp a him in Jake cavernous tear off. Yeah deadline is one of the. I still say to my friends. Like Dang you you know me partner you looking or merely area Just like this is the greatest thing ever like. They had so many like funny. One liners like where he do when Jesus walked in and he's telling his boy watching them play one on one. That's why he ain't GonNa make it. I'll say that all the time too is funny. Random LINES LIKE I`ll. I'll be watching college basketball. And a player makes a play by he angle make the most powerful is is something. Maybe a little weird I love and I think it's only because Denzel can deliver this for some reason. It gets me every time I watch it. When he just says hello son to for the first time holy crap two words and Denzel Washington can just like Damn just take the wind. Right out Along I don't know why how he says it. It's just so perfectly delivered. I love a bad ass Denzel. So that's what I love. When he does end that scene there the first time he talks to to. Ray Ray walks off pissed off and denzel throws the ball up like fifteen feet ahead of them. Toss it to lob and he walks into it on the second bounce it just hits them right in the head rally just like that. Because he's bad asked ends El. How many takes did that take or was that just like magic right there? One take I know exactly the part. You're talking about like Dale. That was cool is he. Throw it up or does he bounce it for. Is it like an angry bounce? Oh yeah it is an angry betsy right. Yeah Right. Many walks into it. You're right all right before we agreed this movie. A quick word from our sponsors. The Black Tux believes every grew. Every men. Who's getting married on. This planet deserves a better experience when it comes to finding formal. Wear a suit or Tuxedo for their big day. Did you know the Blackhawks was actually started by two guys who had one of the worst? Tuxedo fittings? You could imagine I didn't put now. I do end. You know what I bet. 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There are no commitments. And you can cancel anytime. So if you're struggling with the go to get Roman dot com slash no dumps that's get Roman dot com slash dunks for a free online visit and free two day ship or guys critic score on rotten tomatoes one percent. Pretty good pretty good audience score based off of nearly forty five thousand user ratings so a whole lot eighty-three percent critics and the audience Both agree this is really an a movie here. Roger Ebert. He did say he got game lease best film since Malcolm X. But there are a lot of people that go through some of the reviews that did not like this movie at all It did it. Didn't work for them. For whatever reason a lot of criticisms I saw were like the idea that it was too long and a big part of that. And maybe this is what you were talking about. Jd there's almost enough material here. It feels like for two films and Spike Lee is deciding to make them both simultaneously as a lot of that. And you know maybe that results in sort of a scattershot film for for some people but let's break it down well. We think I'm going to start with tasks we'll get you start us off. How do you want to grade this? What's your scale? What do you think I like the movie a lot? I think of everything we watched here through our film sessions. This one was able to be carried by drama and of course. Denzel plays a huge part and and being able to carry it. But they're such little basketball. There is just the sexy one on one moves in that montage some street ball play and the one on one game at the end no team play whatsoever and I was. I was I was into it because it was the really was the relationship between between Jake and reality character so I was very much into it. Of course there's there's a ton of holes in the plot. There's there's no doubt but when when you look through the archive that we watched in Eddie and a Muslim and teen wolf the way back love and basketball. Airbud coach Carter. White men can't jump. Uncut gems is different category. Because it's not a basketball movie whatsoever. I thought it was the best movie we've watched and I was into it very much So I'LL I'll go. Nice Nice eight out of ten. And let's throw on some some overalls eight out of ten sets of overall for me and Yeah look we'll we'll drop the button off off all those aides who just a single button overall eight a ten right white trae would. I'm right there with task. I loved got game in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight I had. He got gained poster on my wall all through high school. And I'm not ashamed that I had now that I've watched again as a grown man. You know I think I would rather have somebody be an actor. Be Okay of acting in very good at basketball than the other way around like. I think if you try to do this with Michael J. Fox. He can barely play basketball but he's an actor. I think it's a much different movie to me. The best acting of the Jesus rail and does at all is in that final one on one game to not break character when Denzel Washington is unexpectedly scoring on. You actually impressive right like if you were going to go. And you're like beat you fifteen to zero and then he goes out and scores five baskets. And you're actually playing against each other. Ray doesn't break. Denzel doesn't break like Denzel. Not Like Gordon Player. I really did it. I thought that was amazing. So I'm with tasks I'm with the critics. I'm giving this eight. This is the biggest decision of your. Life's out of ten nice all right. Judy. You're going to actually. Yeah I mean I. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would I like anything that makes me think and makes me want to read more about something. I loved the Aaron Copland Music. Half of the time that it was playing I didn't mind the public enemy stuff but I'm an old guy so there you go I did find a lot of the characters one dimensional but but ultimately I liked You know they're spike Lee likes to likes to pontificate and he likes to preach a little and I found Although I did love the the big time speech I did hate all the Cuda ways when he's talking about You know you're going to you. Got To watch out for the crack and we cut to a crack house and then we go and and an opium den and watch for alcohol Or is it gambling you know? And then it's just like the most extreme situation each time and and that just that kind of bugs may takes me out of it but Again I loved you have to love Denzel Washington. He's just he is One of the most electrifying actors on screen and and and I just love watching him and I thought was decent. I thought he he held his own So I'm gonNA give this This is a recommendation It's it's six out of ten. Nathan's hotdogs at good. You liked it. I liked I liked f our guest here today on film session Black Trae. Would you think I'm GonNa go seven point? Five had some some bright spots again rollins. Acting Sore for side is You know the prostitute who what else was need the ending the whole ball costing to catch the guard. You know what I mean where he was working on big state Just just reviewing them things like a lot of stuff wasn't needed you know but overall I mean it's part of my childhood and you know I do like I took some positives from a in a kind of outweigh the negative. So you know if to watch this movie. I definitely tell him to watch it. But it's not it's not in my top top top five movies basketball movies ever Yeah because you do see well. That's interesting because you do see some people say this is the best basketball movie. You disagree with that. Yeah okay. That's fair I'll finish it off here on the same page as you guys. I think this is a powerful movie even if it is uneven. There's no doubt it's damn it's too long. It takes thirty minutes off this thing and I think it's much much better like you guys were saying. I I liked the cinematography. I actually disagree with you. I like when Spike SORTA does that. Someone's talking about doing drugs and we see of a scene about it. I I sort of like how that's edited at times. I'm not saying I don't like the way it's edited. They're cutting sure it's just a sledge over my head. Yeah Okay Spike thing. At times for sure for sure. Yeah absolutely but the style of I'm all in on. Yeah I thought the Great Cinematography is Pretty Cool. Beautiful at times. I love the score as we talked about. I thought it was jarring at times. Been in a good way. It works Denzel. Denzel Ray Allen's good enough. I'm giving it eight out of ten accidentally banked in Denzel Washington numbers because that's those things where prayers dropping but so overall we like it or not the greatest basketball movie of all time but we're high on it. What do you guys think? Let us know on twitter at no dunks INC trae black TRAE. Thank you so much for joining us. Where can people follow you online? What's the easiest way to a Trevan at tr veto in E. ON twitter and at Trevan Edwards on Instagram? And as I said you're on the here's the deer podcast box. Podcast yell daily Dean Athletic. Nice Nice we'll keep up the great. We're big fans really appreciate you coming on. Get your questions and comments guys for beef step in next week. No dunks at the athletic dot. Com Clipper rose. You heard it here. I have a great Tom. Turn-up love you guys awesome. Thanks for joining us. And this is usually when I recite a quote from the movie but black trail. I love the way you recited that pimp and Denzel Line from the Hallway. Do you mind giving it to us again. Brother do you. Do you know me something you staring at me. And My lady like in Gaza for merely air it with people.