Royal Rumors and the Celebrity Criticism Paradox | Jam Session

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Vilo the cheapest way to watch over fifty of your favorite channels like VH1. IMC MTV lifetime some anymore. You can enjoy live and on demand TV plus unlimited recording for only twenty dollars a month with no contract needed. Filo is available on Roku. I o s fire TV Andrew TB and apple TV to start your free trial. Go to Filo dot TV slash jam. That's ph I l o dot TV slash J A M. And if you go now, you'll also get fifteen percent off first month. Welcome to jam session. I'm Juliet Littman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. Manda what's up? How are you? Glad to see you see you to you're wearing a lovely Ello. I'm trying you know, I'm trying to bring this bring to Los Angeles. It seems resistant. Not okay, what's bring topics. Do. We have on hand for today. So we got it. We got to revisit the Royal stuff. We there actually aren't that many updates? But there's been a lot of discussions. So we need to talk about the Wilfing. Again, we need to talk about you know, where is the baby. And we'll talk a little bit about other Meghan Harry related stuff. We're just going to you know, check in. Okay. You're going to tell me about something that I know nothing about. Yes. La LA, and I can't wait to leave. I don't even know between fifty set. All right, and LA LA can't avantage pump roles and her boyfriend Randall Emmett of movie past films Vam, really. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm looking forward to learning learning and growing as an important part of life, even after you've graduated from school. And then we are gonna talk about something that happened last week or series of things that happened last week, which would basically about celebrities declaring war on critics. Yes. And it's a real celebrities anchorman. Yeah, it's a rich topic. So we're gonna we're gonna talk about that. But I will kind of do like, you know, news and updates. Yes. Okay. All right. So let's start with the will stuff. So last week for reasons, I'm not totally clear about the Prince William cheating. Rumors started recirculated, I think they restarted recirculating because he went to New Zealand so low for a humanitarian trip, and he met with people like survivors. Of the shooting the recent shooting Zealand in part of the Kiwi tradition is like the greeting you go like four hundred four had nose to nose, basically. And I think for some reason people didn't understand what they're looking out. And they saw those photos in thought it was somehow tied to will cheating, plus you without Kate. I'm pretty sure interest or not ignorance, I think. Yeah. I make sense at the same time Keat appeared at an event solo with hair. Yes. In mama. She wearing a great coach. She looked great and they strode into gather and both looked happy in like, we're above the drama, but it was noticeable that William wasn't. There was notable. That Meghan wasn't there. And I guess people just kinda started paying attention. Yes. And that Harry and Kate moment is important because some people use that as evidence the baby's not here because Harry is making appearances, right? However, I have many parent friends as DO and often one parent is like very available right after the babies warm because the baby sleeps should do the mom stays home. But I have. Many dad friends went back to work. And I was like, yeah. That work. It's pretty common. It's also it's not like he's going to a fulltime job. He's showing up for he his home. And I picked up his hone in like an hour and fifteen minutes does the event goes probably the time that the baby sleeping. Yeah. Suits, just as some of the will rumor stuff, there's nothing new to add we talked about this like almost a month ago at this point. Yeah, we'll recirculated that podcast. But if you've got questions concerns, I think it's all contained their science seem like something's up is. It was our verdict. Yes, it's it's just there's so much chatter Minna tabloid universe about if will cheats, and what is the state of the relationships between the Fab Four as many of them. Kate Meghan Harian. Will there has to be some strife because there's just so much conversation about it where there's smoke. There's fire. Right. But we don't know. That's dreyfuss. Don't know if he cheats, right moving onto the baby. Yes. Onto the baby. So we were promised Royal baby. Late april. We today's may I in the words of insane. It's going to be may. In fact, it is may and. There's no baby. There's no official baby confirmation. There's no photos. There's no indication that there is a baby here. Yeah. Okay. However, I have long believed the baby was by lying last two weeks. Heff L the baby was born and just was being kept private. Yeah. Sue Harian mega did announce that they would be doing this lately differently. They weren't gonna do. What Kagan will do the baby was going to be born at Windsor outside London instead of inland, and they weren't gonna do the thing where they walk out on the stairs. And you know, hold the baby. So cure nightly. Can't get mad at them. That's fair. You know at your ninety minutes with that just for that. They were going to spend some time with the baby solo before the made the announcement. So what you're saying is totally plausible. And I think I agree with you the only thing to keep in mind here is that first baby sometimes or late. Yeah. I've heard yes, I've heard that as well. Yeah. But I don't know. I just feel like they're so quiet on the topic. That almost like suspicious in. Then Harry is like I dunno just like he's he went to that event last week. He's he's around which is almost like a red herring to me of normalcy thinks he showed up to so he showed up to like a service for Anzac Day. Which is you know, some it's a UK version of the common while Memorial Day. One of these things I believe it honors troops and historical situation. So it's kind of like if you're the head of the Royal if you're in the Royal family, you gotta do that. It's like a Batory, and then he showed up to Easter service, which was also the queen's birthday, which like I don't really think you can get grandma's birthday if she's the Queen. And it's also Easter pretty obligatory events. Yes. So I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean that he's not at home. Right. He's as you said doing his job, basically. Yeah. Of being crags in total generous. Like, this is one day of work. Right. Untold what we're talking about cumulative hours. And then today the Queen went to visit framework cottage in Windsor. I think she went over the weekend. It was like, but it came at Easter weekend. Gosh, which things means that she the baby's already here, and she was visiting the baby. I think it could also just mean like she was in the neighborhood and was going to cause they just moved. And you know, she's trying to I don't know. I think that's giving them a lot of credit as normal people. That's the kind of thing your mom would do like oh in the neighborhood minute drop in. But does the Queen of England do that. I'm not sure I guess that's true. I don't know. I agree that the baby's probably here, and they're just keeping a secret, which I I like support. In the meantime on their Instagram. They've like. Mental health has been a cause of William and Harry and Kate nugget for awhile. And so they've rededicated this Sussex, Royal Instagram to mental health, which is cool. And apparently like in the middle of the night UK time, they're updating with like montages collages about mental health, which you know, you do you. It's not how I use Instagram. But it's also like a valid uplifting to use it. But as a result of this. They also on followed everyone, but like mental health professional accounts, which means that they unfold Kate and wills account, right, which I think is pure aggression. I think it's really funny. I just like I understand we've done this thing of you know, people on follow or delete their Instagram accounts. They kinda re purpose them for a set amount of time for promotional reasons. Like music musicians, do this all the time. Like, I get it. But I still think that you can follow one other like a couple of other accounts, which are mainly with. Route compromising your public mission. And I just think that this is like a aggression that said, it is really funny all the coverage of how this Instagram account works like the tabloid coverage will act like it's definitely Meghan or Harry writing now, and I. Only not there was like a whole theme about how she was spelling words the American waiver city accent was just like okay, friends, like they have many social media managers how it works. I know. But I also think social media manager should know that you especially this moment when they're all these rumors about fights between them that. You just stay following the other. It's not that hard. Why'd you have to do that. It is kind of funny. I like it. I hope it a certain point. There's like worse fuck with people like this is like malicious towards not as their family member. But like their audience or not malicious, but conniving it's the better way. Putting it. I guess so I mean that seems like a sure way to not be a Duke and duchess anymore. You know? 'cause like literally the only thing that is keeping these people in any sort of not even power, but is keeping them in their palaces is people being like we're obsessed with the able caring. Yeah, we'll tell you about this more later in the podcast. But the idea of how you relate to your audience is pretty important when you're. Celebrity and really think that these people given their tenuous hold on wealth and status are in a position to be like screw you guys show. Maybe they will it would be fascinating for us. I think that they're just getting smarter about Instagram general because there's this whole thing that happened with with Bala and fifty cent, and Randall that there's been a lot speculation around their social media, essentially. Okay. And I thought that LaLa Randolph broken because she deleted all these posts. Okay. All right. All right. All right. So this is a great segue. Just need you to explain to me. I will. But let me just. Yeah. I thought that she had had broken up because she deleted always every photo of him. But then she did a story that indicate they're still together very very harshly. So I think it's leverage trying to fuck with us their cigarette accounts. And I like it keep me on my toes. I get to like it for contents. Yes. There's like, you know. And this is another thing. We'll talk about this as a celebrity you do have to keep people interest. Did you have to keep kind of your own narrative, going smart, ones know that? But it's a fine line between keeping it going. And then people like completely agree. Okay. So Tommy who these people are. Okay. So fifty seven it's honestly, I was talking to a friend about this this morning. It's a little hard to explain who Lalla Kent is if you don't watch Vander pumper, but I'm gonna try I didn't even you. Yeah. It's hard. She has spent her essence what what she is. Anyone is up to the task. It is usually kale law. Can't is a hostess at sir sensibly hostess at sir. The sexy unique restaurant at the center Vanderbilt. Roles owned by Lisa Vancouver. Okay. I am familiar with all of those pronounce. I think that she joined in season five maybe four she's been on the show. This is just finishing up Stephen season seven here's been on for years. She's a firebrand she gets into fights. She's uses really aggressive language, and she's always made a big deal about her relationship at first she wouldn't say the name of her boyfriend because he was married. So she didn't say his name. So she would just be like my, man. My man this my man that. And then Secondly, she's very open bow. He's her sugar daddy and like provides private planes for her. She's openly admitted that she had sex with him that got up part in a movie, she she openly talks about how he's a by all this stuff, and crucially, she was like his they were having an affair 'cause he was married when they first met. So there's all this stuff. She has like this season. She takes her friends down trip to solving from LA the fine a private jet. Like, okay. That's like that's like a forty minute plane ride. Right. Not even know I feel like that's like twenty minutes. Waiting minutes yet. Like, do you even get up to outdo toot? Now, why five traffic is working for you? You're there in under two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Driving? It's not even worth the hassle. So anyway, she's berry. She's very flamboyant about this relationship can ask to follow. Yes. Is she positioned in the show as a villain? She was at first. But then everyone started to like, okay, and Itihi and everything you just recounted all self aware. A little bit. Okay. But I think she genuinely like wants to be taken care of like this. And she also like always flaunted her body, and she's very hot as Llosa's like she has breast implants docks. That will like she uses her body as a as a tool. Okay. In a way that is. She's owning it or that. It's kind of pathetic somewhere in between. Okay here. I mean what I like her. I don't know. I I because I can see version. I do I think she has redeemable quality. She used to Schiffer awhile. She kind of like took the moral high ground. But then she became like at SAS with like supporting women, but meanwhile, talks about like just wanting to have a sugar daddy, and you know, SU there's some roles and what logical inconsistent. Yeah. I don't like logical inconsistent. And then Randall looks like he could be buried to one of the real housewives of New Jersey. And he is one of the director one of the producers of the film Godley. Wow. And he worked at like a production company that was acquired by movie pass. So he works like move past films. He just like scream scam to me. And so everything you just said is a synonym for scam. And so what happened is fifty cents started Instagram about van perils and kind of coming at LA LA, and it turned out that Randall rand as Lollar for them owed fifty cent one. Million dollars. Okay. And apparently fifty had fifty had tried to get Randall had gotten Randall job on power that he could work to pay off his loan make money to pay back, and he still wasn't paying back. So what happened was fifty cent started posting receipts? So over the weekend. He got into a fight. Like received. He's gone to fight with Randall and LaLa, and they're all using social media against other and fifty inches like totally dunks on Randall by sharing screen shots of their conversation. In the big joke. I keep saying because in the in attacks Randall had a had a typo it said Fathi instead of fifty okay? And does really funny and like. Just fucking funny. He said like Raynal texted him. I'm sorry again. I'm really sorry. I said I'm sorry. I'm Howdy version. Super I'm not doing well. Please tax Banney more sorry for everything t this is too much for me. I'm so hurt not feeling. Well, now, my axes is fucking with me after your post. This is very bad for me on all levels going to ER to make sure I'm not having a heart attack. Please fifty no more. And and so fifty receiving these posting Instagram, and he wants to be paid back, and then Randall did pay back if you took it all down amazing. But you have to wonder how Randall get one million dollars. Let's going to be my phone shit. I don't know. And I worry I just wanna say Randall bad decisions that human make based on the fact that seems like he'd very long standing debt to fifty cent. Rightfully was afraid fifty cent famously survived twenty one good shot wounds to the chest. So I also would not wanna fuck with fifty. He's a tough dude is a complex, man. He's tough. He's he survived. Yes. And I just would not let me feuding with someone was able to arrive Twenty-one nutjob wounds. And it's just the whole thing was so funny. And I think is the banner of rules lends itself to like so much absurdity that a genuine celebrity and businessmen such as Curtis yourself kind of intersected with this. It's really interesting that they're sort of Cordell car dash, she and Ning. Yes. Cash inning a bit in that they are starting to transcend like the closed universe of inner pump rules. I so even though you won't respect me. But I say this as you have clarified on multiple podcasts. I have still not seen an episode of inner pump rules not out of a version. I'm sure would be great. It's just like I'm seven seasons behind. Yeah. It's not also run really long. Right. It started. This seasons haven't started into summer. And I'm not a great reality watcher. I just haven't learned how to do it in the way that you have. So I just it just feels insurmountable for me at this point. But I'm curious everyone. I know I respect everyone who is watching it has about it. It's clearly like succeeding television, which it's hard to make a reality television. I think the dream is ending because they've all they. Okay. So several of them just moved to the valley in because people are terrible their homes have been like leaks, addresses and everything. And of course, I looked up where they all are look at their house listings, they're all within like three square miles each other and buy them. All I mean, there's there's three couples and then four Kristen included the four core. Couple of the show who all moved to the valley like right near each other. But so much of the show is the fact they basically lived a tiny section of LA never left it and two couples even lived in the same building one drown the corner. Like, they just I just think that even install close proximity there. They must have had their contract structure. That if they got to certain number of episodes, they would cash out or like get some kind of residuals, and they must have gotten there as a result all had cashed by these two million dollar homes in the valley. Right. I think you've talked about the appeal of the show is that it is kind of they're all friends, and it's like a closing closed universe. Yeah. And it does even seem beyond the home. So that's like a physical manifestation of it that they are. Venturing outside the universe famous. Exactly. Which is interesting because then they find us off. We don't talk about reality stuff as much unless they on this show, unless they come up to a certain level, and I'm like actually famous in the Kardashians. Did that I think like the hills girls to an extended that. And now it really does seem like the inner pump rules people have done that. But I'm curious like what happens when whether they can sustain fame outside of the apple that created it. I don't know. I I don't they don't have a Kris Jenner don't have even Kim Kardashian. It's just very it's like they're famous for being friends with each other and for also like sort of living a very straightforward absurd. Life or as the Kardashians are living, very lavish. Alright hop absurd light almost like the fact that they're like such familiar characters so much like what may the show mazing lived in these like trash apartment, so they clearly could afford something else. And now they can't. Now, they're doing that. And justly changes the show. It seems a bit more like jersey shore than Kardashians. Just like built on a group of friends, and they become very famous. Yeah. But can't really figure out Timex chess, and Tom and Tom on the show now, they don't work at star anymore, and that's kind of a big deal. And I'm faking it they're just making money off the merge, Tom you buy time. Yeah. Wearing a lovely shirt the other day from Tom, Tom. I thought it was cool. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yes. That's the story with off duty team say like getting into feud with fifty cent is definitely one way to keep your profile very high. So in that sense, they seem to have survival instincts. That is true. That's true. Do they possible? They like see they. Yeah. I was gonna say because if it resolves quickly and suddenly had a million dollars occurred to me I've loud, so pure really story. Now, that's interesting. Do they plant it? I have to think about that. Okay. Can't put a pass him a little pay him back. But I you know, that is that's the question. Is not an answer. The only thing is that like other people. Like jacks were like, cool, man. Just bring on the publicity like in a way that actually did seem Ernest. I need to think about this. Really blew my mind. Sorry. No. I create something that you enjoy. So I don't wanna version bubble. You're right though. I wonder okay. Well, we'll monitor the situation or we won't because maybe they won't like if they become famous. We'll talk about the more. And if they don't then we won't, okay? Let's talk which day sponsors as I mull this over. Today's podcast is also brought to you by the MAC powder. Kiss lipstick MAC powder kiss lipstick is the moisture Matt lipstick of your dreams. It's Matt reinvented. Max new Matt formula feels weightless instantly hydrates and doesn't dry out your lips. It was originally developed as a backstage trend for soft. Matt look. So it's backstage tested an artist approve KOMO many other Matt lipsticks are drying, but the powder kiss lipstick is where Matt meets moisture the velvety soft Matt colors glide on effortlessly, providing instant long-term hydration that doesn't dry out your lips you get zero shine smooth look of Matt lipstick with the late feel of a bomb. The paddock has lipstick comes in twenty four gorgeous colors with a wide range of pinks news reds and plums to complement any skin tone, the weightless cushioning texture of the powder. Kiss. 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Already moving on back into the celebrity online universe away from the van from universe last week. There was many many tiffs between celebrities and critics. Yeah. It was an interesting moment where celebrities just decided it was time to gang up on critics and by critics, we mean, professionally employed. Yes, our colleague Altro critics as opposed to people being mean online. Yes. And that's an important distinction to keep in mind throughout this whole conversation because there is a distinction in there is a job in Lakers tradition. Going back literally thousands of years of criticism and talking about art and really like an politics and anything in a. Critical way not critic not critical as a negative but applying the art of criticism sure to something and then there are just like people with accounts and that also has a ton of value. And a lot of ways has really level the playing field in a way that maybe criticism fifty years ago hasn't but there is a difference between. People who are pursuing some thought and art form, and then like people who are named calling online share. So though the way that we use the internet often flattens the two, and I think that some of this is what happened is that? Celebrities started kind of flattening the distinction. So we'll just start an order. Okay. Great. Liz, Liz L listen to us morning. Okay. Okay. All right. She has been sort of a this is interesting 'cause she's been a blog and music industry, darling. Yes, there have just been so many pieces about her and her music and personality, and she's been on the cover of magazines. She's just been people really love her. And she's had a pretty extremely positive critical experience with everyone who does this for living kind of acting as an advocate. Sure. And then a review of her album ran on pitchfork as often happens that was mixed and lizotte treated p. People who review review in scare quotes albums and don't make music themselves should be unemployed. Oh, people didn't take that Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I guess we're on the media side of this. But like there's just so many rock critics in like, the very like typical lesser bangs way who were really interesting and thoughtful people in like art doesn't exist in a vacuum. And the purpose of criticism is to get people to engage with more thoroughly and think about it in different ways. It takes it really seriously. This to me just read like someone who doesn't have a lot of experience sort of showing their feelings in public, which is not a move. Don't do it. Don't don't line in public. I completely agree. And also, she you have the right to disagree, and you have the right to say in public. I was disappointed by this. Or I don't like this to how dare you all is just not a great move, right? 'cause celebrities especially in this era are supposed to be just like us. Right. So as soon as you're doing how dare you you're on the wrong side. It's true. It's not a good luck. Not a great luck. The net. Next one was Arianna 'Grande. Yes. Who chewing after bloggers? I'm so I'm just as Allison Herman wrote a great piece for the ringer about all of this was great. I'm just going to read from this because it's really quite complicated. And Allison has details are Anna grind responded on Wednesday to E news segment. Criticizing Justin bieber's cameo at her Coachella set which was weekend too. Because she couldn't get four or five and sinkers to come back. Right. So E news is criticizing just in the fact that Justin Bieber was okay. This is what her since deleted tweet reads one day, everybody that works at all them, blogs will realize how unfulfilled they are and purposeless what they're doing is dot dot dot. I can't wait for them to feel inside. So I mean stowaways this is great. This is I can't wait for them to feel inside is already a meme she's so good at the internet. She's really really good at the internet this. And this is also hilarious because like E news. A new segment is not a blog. And also. It's not as personal. It's just this. She's wrong. Like, this is not just like kind of criticizing nothing, and it doesn't really matter, and she's just like whining and public, but she's REI 'Grande, and she is allowed to do that. And she does it with such panache that it's just funny. Yeah. Like, this is a real case study in how how you say something is important as what you say sure 'cause it's like Arianna. What are you talking about? Like people are allowed to make fun of just be totally. This is all valid. But also like, no one cares. What you said. It's funny. The funny thing is working in digital media is really hard part of it is whole sucking because you are online all the time. It's part of the job is like being hyper attuned to what's going on. We put this podcast the other fairly quickly because we're just like online all the time. We got topics to pull from right, and like that is really hard. But it's not because you're a bad person or whatever it's 'cause as like well documented, it's difficult to ban social media all the time. And it breeds a different kind of mindset lifestyle. But it's like disrespectful of people's jobs. Are I hate when work is this respect? That's true. And I think also in this particular case are Anna grenade has often benefited from the blogs like she is someone who has she's does. Does is in a large part internet fueled because young people that's how they consumer. And she's really good at it. And you know, she makes a music video with a bunch of rom com. References, and it's dissected on blogs, and blogs have advocated for her and her part of the reason. So it's one of those things where it's like you can't pick and choose, you know. And so I think they're a lot of people who have been upset about this feel like they spend a lot of time advocating and supporting and investing in something, and I do as a celebrity you gotta be aware of when you're benefiting versus like you have to take both sides. Yeah. You know, it's like part of the price of being in public and you want especially when I make sure that you're not dumping on the people who have been writing for you. Because then you don't have fans anymore. And then you're not a celebrity literally how it works. It's what we were talking about with Harry and Meghan. Yes. They agreed. And also she like. She makes videos for the internet link you make she makes content for very online audience and so two like just miss part of that Konomi is like unfair. Yeah. I mean, I just think in general, it's not smart. If you're in a position of power to dismiss the people who put you in power. Yeah. Just survive a wise that and that goes like across the board, not even just celebrities. But also the thing about celebrity is like don't mind public. I I really feel that throughout. It's just like, it's a form of weakness. And you don't wanna show weakness because you already you're in a position to succeed. You're it's like it's this twice in effect. People were talking a lot about that last week, which if you're not familiar Barbara Streisand got really mad because some random photographer posted a photo of her home on the internet. And I think like literally forty two people had ever clicked on the page until she filed the lawsuit and then sows if not millions of people right done it. Once you filed the lawsuit, right? Just kinda like, it's it's not a great. Then there's Michael chase stuff which like we don't need to get into that. Do you wanna get into that he on Instagram like just he makes a point of? He tries to dunk on these on on writers. And he's usually pretty aggressive. And it's like if you follow Michael Chan Instagram were if you watch us in L, and that's your brand of content like cool. I it doesn't really matter to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a great look. But you know, whatever. Yeah. Alternate her piece he like screen shot at and like made not even knowing made fun of the idea of her her which is predictable. And you know, there is people like to see other people be dunked on people like to see people taking a stand. We see that in our political system to negative effects all of the time. So I does it if that's his bag. Sure. What I I just don't think it's interesting. The Olympia Mon one is interesting. Yes. So this was the final one and she posted a screen shot of chew. It's not notes app. What would you say? This is. I think it's like a Microsoft Word document that she opened as a PDF on her phone, and then screen shotted. Yeah. And she had done some photo shopping as well. So there's a photo element. Yeah. And she posted it to Twitter with the caption short essay on the ugly behaviors of the fug girls. Yes. So this was about go fuck yourself, which is one of the really early blogs. I think it must have started mid to late two thousands not that long after press Hilton and Laney and the first rise of really really ugly gossip websites and the Fugro have always written about close and close only and specifically from fischel appearances. They're not even like like, they I guess they guess they use paparazzi fun. Yeah. And I think that they they they have stopped. And now they're like kind of the online version of the fashion police, but the most red carpet appearances, and like when it seems like someone is kind of like a walking billboard. Yes. And they have. Always walked really fine line and kept it to the idea of clothes and image making and this multibillion dollar industry that also ever dese participate in and they are they were never liked press Hilton. Who was like literally drawing drops of cement on people, you know, and with his crude Photoshop so they've been doing. This Rivera longtime an Olympia Mon Roach, an essay about a quote essay, that's our world in mind. About how they're mean. And how what they do is ugly and unfair. And this didn't go over very well for Libya on now people really responded with a lot of gusto, and I think that's partially because she has a lot of ill will against her out there already. It's hard to trace how and why it happened? But I don't feel like Olympia Munns ever been like that deeply respected as a celebrity or as an actress though, I say, I quite like Tron the newsroom show, she's greatly likes. She's really good in magic. Mike or mic to whichever the first one. Yeah. Yeah. She's the girlfriend of the beginning. She I feel like ever since you attack of the show she was kind of like dismissed, and that's not entirely surprising. If you kind of know about some of like online culture that comes with some video game, and sort of like more of like online esoteric pop culture world, and she was like very very much dismissed from the beginning by certain demographic. And then on the other. Of things I think she was like really objectify as a hot girl and never really kind of afforded much respect as an actress or is like just like a woman, and I I'm not even sure I respect that much. Nash is really active on Instagram, which I think also does not help, but she just sort of like never really found her footing as like a serious celebrity. And I think that as a result when she tried to like when she posted this personal essay sensually wasn't met. Well, no, I'll read one quote from it. Okay. Heather cox. Jessica Morgan who are the girls probably won't like this. But they'll just have to learn that when you come for anyone publicly you've now entered the public domain and you've chosen your opponent. So I'll give you the same advice week at when you're in the public eye. It comes with the territory, I think that's true. And we talk about that alive where especially if you are making money off of being famous than it comes with the territory that you're going to be open to in the same way that you're asking for people's attention and profiting off. Of that. Then you will also have to reap some of the negative benefits of people's attention. Now there are rules to that like you. And I talk a lot about rules of engagement can't make fun of certain people's like actual physical appearances. Or I mean, you have to be respectful, but there is a difference between like fashion is art an industry and people are making like billions of dollars off of it. And it does factor into how someone say concered sleepy. And you know, there are industries built around the red carpet and built around now Instagram and influencers are going to be like selling things directly like there is money in this. And I my general theory is like if there's money in the game, and you're making money off of it. Then you need to expect it sure. And I guess that's I mean, I don't diminish Olivia Munns right to be like, I don't agree with how the roles are doing this. I think she's just kind of. She's confusing it she chooses them have things. They don't do anything fun of weight or physical appearance, which they don't do. And she's kinda like confusing and using like actual legitimate thoughts and campaigns to further her own personal agenda, which I'm not down with. Yeah. Agree with you. And you know, I think also we talked a little about this. I I do think there has to be a lane for criticism as a I mean, there doesn't have to be, Elaine. But I would like to live in a world where people can write thoughtfully about stuff. Sure. And you know, it's like the great struggle of the internet at this point. Is that like we're still trying to carve out a space for people can disagree thoughtfully? And it's increasingly hard, and we it's like, I get it. And I think you, and I have also been guilty at some points of reflexively. Not following this sought full. Gets catty. I'm as sometimes, of course. And you know, everyone's human, and I think like the positive side of the internet is that people's varies viewpoints, and people's expression and let that instant reaction is much easier to express in. There's fun enjoying that. You know, they're kind of like Russia of endorphins. I still believe that there can be a world in which we can talk thoughtfully about things. I agree with you. I think this is complicated this particular incense, and this is kind of connects Eliza as well. But I think part of this incivility Amman is it so aesthetics based like she's being like what the fuck girls. Do is they comment on how people look and not necessarily. They're like fat or skinny or uglier pretty or their makeup or their weight or whatever. But it's about their their aesthetic presentation. And I just think for all people and particularly women, and particularly an actress how you look is like so sensitive and also I. Willing only let him on like central to her livelihood of core. And so just makes it like a different kind of conversation. And I think part also like part of whole Liz O'Connor sation is that she's about like body positivity, and she represents a different type of celebrity, and I think that that like wasn't explicit an eye cases. But I do think there's a kind of representation of women in media where it's almost like if feels like lines are crossed as a result of like either Libyan mon- being known for being like really hot, and maybe not wanting that reputation or wanting to justify wanted to be given more depth in the public either than just like what she looks like and similarly for Liz, oh, like there's like she's almost like an avatar for body positivity like a type of online discourse, right? Extremely positive as a way to counteract so much of the kind of standard negatively that. I'm sure she still gets all the time for being the weight that she is. And I think that like with with women it's also like there's even more of that. Version. Yeah. That is really hard to navigate on both that both as the celebrity and the critic, of course, we're taught both that are appearances our number one value and also that we're supposed to ignore that at all times to try to transcend it, and it's very complicated. I also just like if I release o or Libya mine and either of these things happen. I personally would be mortified, and I would want you like dig a trench and then live in it forever. And you know, I get it. I understand the reaction. I think I do think that some of it is just especially when you are, you know, posing for photographs in creating this whole machine that is dependent on your image. You kinda gotta be prepared for it. Yeah. Even even if it's really tough. It's and like I understand that it's really tough. And I think that it's just not a good look to be complaining about it in this way. I don't really in public. I just don't think at achieves anything because I don't think it's like making the dialogue better. Yeah. You know? And I don't think it's furthering their 'cause maybe. It feels good like an outlet. You know, maybe it's useful. Because it is a reminder to everyone that we have to you can criticize, but you have to do with awfully. Yeah. Just like speak with purpose, which we try to do. So I guess that's useful. But the other thing is just kind of Liz, oh and Libya mine, and certainly are added grandee are more powerful like famous and powerful than the people that they're picking on. And it, you know, it's checks and balances, I agree. I agree. Portent punctuation Mark on this conversation's, dip, low evolve. The people in the world. Yeah. Tweeted critics gotta eat too. And. Yeah, that's I do think it's kind of easier for someone like him to say that we're first of all he's lauded as being a genius all the time. And even if many people have problem with him because of how he went after Taylor swift, and that she like a bony butter whatever many years ago, he has the benefit of being known diplo. He makes hit songs. Yes. It's just like now he can be a weirdo and she is regularly. I mean, it's funny weird. But yes, I still love the song. He's produced. Yes. Climb actually probably my favorite song of the last ten years. Honestly, the usher song so good. But like it's easier for someone like that. He was like regularly being praised for his successes with everything else being comic an asterisk. Whereas with all these women they're subjected to a different level different type. Of course, it's true. But thanks for the other side, that's all the same. Anyway. I I don't think anything's gonna change anytime soon. We have a version of this conversation. Every once in a while. I think it's a great one to have. And I'm sure we will talk about it again. I agree beast Martin. You know, be smart everybody at all times. I agree. And also, let's get a newsroom reboot at loved. All right Stevens. Where are you? Okay. That's Juliet's take the week. As always wonderful talking to you. Likewise. And thanks again to MAC and Filo.

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