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Ep. 29: No Hallmark Card (feat. Jane Sanders)


This is rumble with Michael Moore and thank you for listening in here. We have Just surpassed our are three millionth download. We've only been doing this for six weeks. I it's like we're so You know we told them we were told this would take a year and a half half before we get to this number. So thank you to all of you. Who are listening in supporting us? And thank you to our underwriters Today especially our underwriter nat. Go Jio think we used to call them. National Geographic National Geographic magazine National Geographic Films. On my how long has national geographic them with US probably for more than one hundred years more than one hundred and fifty and this is one of the oldest magazines in America. Now that you all this great work making documentaries and many my friends somme documentaries with them and they're just a fine fine group to work with and they've got this film that's nominated for the Oscars in just a week or two. The film is called the Cave and it's made by a wonderful filmmaker for us. Via is his name. He made a film that was nominated on. It was last year or the year before last. Man Lopo is obviously. He's covered this tragic tragic war in Syria for many years now and this most most recent film of his the cave is a powerful look at sort of a makeshift hospital. I guess I say it's makeshift because they're trying to operate a hospital in the middle title of war and it's the first hospital in. I think Syria really ever to be rung directed by a woman. So it's a great documentarist interviewed a chance to see it. And I think the filmmakers I think Nat. Go for underwriting. Today's episode and of course their underwriting implies lies no solicitation or sponsorship of The candidate that I happen to be traveling with here but they give voice to a lot of people but with me here hours in almost really before the Iowa caucus is Jane Sanders. Dr Jane. Sanders is As you probably Pollino married to a man by the Bernie Sanders and and she's here to tell us everything. Well please crease. No actually but let me just Thank you first of all for thank you for having me great to see you again when I last saw you in Queens Bridge Park back back in the fall with a massive rally. That was wonderful. Radio see was there and I was there and we legally officially endorsed a Birdie. It was it was not at long after he was in the hospital. I said to you so you know how's he doing you know you said you know these morning walks. We go on Ah when he was in there. They like cleaned out the like everything the arteries of case now now working on three cylinders and we didn't know that he only had two working. If so and you made some reference to the the blood was flowing like I don't know what you if you say the Amazon River some and what you said to me was is that you cannot keep up with him on the morning walks in and then you said if you do happen to talk to Bernie about they just come this slow down a little more really. I think. Having been a lifelong athlete he just Brung back to action and he didn't realize He had told me just before the heart attack. He left to go to Nevada and I wasn't going with him. I was doing some television television. Ads he said I don't know I'm tired and I hope I'm not getting old. I said Well No. You're fine. We'll we'll so you know you should have a checkup. So then the heart attack happened and I spent out there At the first plane plane and I was very worried and then I walked into the room. And he's there working sitting up denise just doing and I said Are you feeling what I'm feeling much better much like the next morning. So It was a it was a surprise but I guess it was a blessing because you know what you remember. AFC said it was wakeup call for her. And I think it was a wakeup call for a lot of people to recognize that If Bernie wasn't in the race would we be having these conversations conversations with the bar he so much lower so and then. I think it nudged everybody. That was keeping an open. Mind listening to everybody that they realized they already had their candidate for sure right. I'll tell you that's the way it feels here in Iowa I'm on a twelve day. I call our our journey with Bernie here. And it's you know coming to an end but I'll tell you. Now that Bernie is the front runner In New Hampshire in Iowa. Not My lot ought. We may not want to caution. Everybody don't be having the end zone. Dance Five Yard Line. There's a lot of work to do in this. This thing can change in twenty four hours so mhm Everybody has to be on top of this and Getting bringing ten people with them to the polls yep they can't just ask people to caucus bring them you have to bring them make a party out of it have dinner beforehand. Go drinking after worst. Ever make it a communal event because it actually without is what democracy is it is a very large community event. But we've been waiting all week or so with burning last weekend here and we're like what do you you think we're there now that you're this emerson. Poll from last Sunday was amazing and Number the CNN poll number one with non white voters across the country. Yeah Wow I'm thinking. Okay Bernie I says. Where's the attack and a cup? which which are we looking east west north and he said Yeah I? It's I don't I don't know because but I I think it's just going to be there. Just GonNa keep pounding the same horse. which is Bernie? Can't be drunk Bernie Bernie Birdie and and so these Jonathan Chait in New York magazine. This week David Fromm everywhere. Pundit extraordinaire not MHM William Salo Ten in slate and the ad on the negative ads the first negative ad by arc money in this election and my hope is that all the Democratic candidates will stand up and say we don't want dark money In this campaign ad last night that was stunning. This is a Democratic Party. Had Abbas meant the establishment Democrats running the mark. Mellman is a mean-spirited untrue. At to stop there so nervous but those people I mentioned those pundits I mentioned they were all support either supporters of the Iraq war or worked the bush. Whitehouse how are you. You know I'd like to hear your answer to this is because the more they say this and then what we're seeing with our own eyes and hearing with our own ears here in Iowa it's like could they be just wrong yet again with them themselves another time here right love else. The that's the concern. These pundits the democratic establishment talks to itself. It's very insular. And they have the same interests I mean in a lot of them are quite quite wealthy in terms of what they're paid They are interested. They can't seem I'm to believe that. People Support Bernie because nobody they know does so they don't get out of the beltway. Michael you know this they they just talk to each other and say this is the this is my world view. And they don't realize in a democracy in a vibrant democracy such as exists. It's in Iowa and New Hampshire and across this country People actually are thinking things through. They're paying attention all the candidates they're open minded and they're not following their perspective. I think I think Americans have learned that they can't count on the pundit class were or the establishment of either party to tell them what the reality is because as you say they've been wrong so often. Yeah and while you know none of us who you put everything in the polls but Belief in them but consistently now for months Burns Mun number one with Latino voters. You never read that anywhere. Ah with young voters. He fifty two percent fifty six percent I saw yesterday seventy percent in Texas of eighteen to twenty nine year olds of her Bernie. It's amazing to to to witness this. It's interesting that He is doing so well. When you talk about them saying saying that He can't be trump. I mean that's demonstrably by their own polls wrong and they say since two thousand sixteen he was beating trump better than Clinton was consistently and then since then anytime there's been poll that says Democratic candidates against trump. He's always beaten him sometimes by more than anybody else. So there's just they just don't care about reality. They have their own narrative they want to sell it and and they're purchasing ads. That are ridiculous when they say well. Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania won't vote for a socialist while in fact act. He won Wisconsin and Michigan in the last election. So that is they. Don't care what the facts are and you notice. Some of those people people that are in there used to be paid staffers on other campaigns. Now so these are not just your regular I on and just that you brought up Michigan as they know I I think a lot of people listening to my podcast. It's raining game whenever I mentioned Michigan Flint. You know take a drink but the town. I live in Michigan There's only like fourteen thousand people in rural town that voted for George W Bush in two thousand and two thousand four in twenty sixteen in the Michigan Primary. Our town voted seventy percent Bernie any thirty Percent Hillary in twenty sixteen two percentage points more than Ann Arbor Liberal Michigan. I think people don't understand stand. They they WANNA put him in a pigeonhole to say. Oh he's he's too left his only for the left in fact working class people understand stand. He's on their side. That's right yeah. They don't wake up in the morning and define themselves. I'm on the left arm on the right. You know they're trying to get by. They're trying to get by and let me ask you this. Why did you let him run? Because his his The joint decision. Well we we went back back and forth quite a bit and until February saying I should we do it should we do it and I think it came down to. We have after defeat this very very dangerous president. The country can't stand another four years of Donald Trump We are democracy. We'll be in great jeopardy and so the feeling was if we don't do everything that we can to defeat this president. How are we gonNA look our kids and our grandkids and the eyes and say we stepped back and for Bernie everything he can do is run for president? We would have ben fine if we felt that somebody else was capable of beating trump and and transforming this country quickly as as opposed to beating trump. And just going back to the way it was which is what brought us trump so we felt very strongly that he was the right person and Dan? It was his calling to do so. And you're in your one hundred percent behind us and One hundred percent behind it from the standpoint of it's the right thing to you do I mean We easier well. It's an honor But it is definitely I mean our kids and and our grandkids. Don't see him as much. And that's that's hard. It's hard for all of us Reassert loneliness too about for you and for him to yeah especially with this impeachment too. So I'm an Iowa. Here's he's in Washington Today so there's been very little time to go back and forth To go home. So we've brought we now have Some of the kids coming with us on the road There door knocking being Dave and his children Ellen Dylan aren't door knocking an Iowa today and they spent the morning with us. They're on their own in the afternoon. Right thinking about this over. The Years Bernie has always been so far ahead of the curve. You go back to that photograph of him in nineteen sixty three being arrested at a civil rights demonstration when he's in College in Chicago so many times and you've been with them for very long time if they'd be one forty years almost okay. You're not one of these people actually counts the days. The minutes usually don't remember our anniversary until the next day or something we say. Oh we both looking each other. Ah You forgot our anniversary because we're too busy right But it but it was a lonely road for him. Yeah and you were on that road with him where people criticize him Mocked him You know you know. What do you mean gay marriage? Sure sure this or that or whatever you know. It's it's not bad while it's happening. Because he knows he lives his life on values and principles that say that human rights are the most important thing that humanity needs to be at the forefront of our thinking that we diversity is the strength of America. America that justice you justice his his mind as just has a foundation of justice. Whether it's racial Justice Social Justice Environmental Mental Justice Economic Justice. But what is hard is to see after the fact that people are saying when he's lead on all these issues he's he's been on on the right side. I couldn't be prouder of him but then to see them say oh he was never there for civil rights even though he led the first Sit in in the northeast at the University of Chicago. Even though he proclaimed a parade for gay rights in Nineteen eighty-five Burlington Burlington as the mayor. What bothers me is when people say he wasn't there we don't know he doesn't really have a history he doesn't care about on their a long rest? They're lying there for instance that sit in yes In College there there's pictures of this Danny Lyons who's a civil rights rates photographer. Great Civil Rights. You know I found best. Just ignore these people when they just because they have nothing else. They can't debate on the issue but when the media repeats it repeats. It repeats that it becomes. You know the media comes up with a fact or believes the establishment facts facts and then repeat them as though and then people believe it. That's what's hard. The fight isn't really hard for him or for me. We're so used to paving new ground and and pushing the envelope That that's okay. We know that there's going to be pushed back in order to move a country or move Roy at community but lies. That's one of the worst thing about politics today. Ever been a time where you've said to him through all these years ears and all these issues you know Bernie may be better dial it back a notch or the opposite. Have you ever said to him. You know I know you and I I know you. It's okay to go further. I'm with you You can take that risk you know. He's never needed my permission and I've never needed to tell them to go further. He tends to go faster than me. He brings me along I bring to the table a more not conservative but a more You're the Irish. See Irish I like Oh you know there's I'm very much Supportive of people so I always excuse individual actions saying well. They don't know as much we just need to bring them along And and try to make try to convince people and persuade people by talking with them and he calls them out so so I think we are the Yin and Yang necessarily probably. Is it okay to make this statement. You probably know Bernie better than anyone. I think it probably. It's safe to say all right so I think people would really love it because I've seen pieces of Bernie that other people don't see and Bernie has this this great sense of humor and and people don't know and I know it's interesting because in Vermont people got to know him when he first won as mayor by ten votes everybody thought it was a fluke. and Oh my gosh. She's a democratic socialist. What are we going to do with this? And the mayor's seat and people learned in Burlington to very quickly who Bernie was because he was very outspoken on the issues and did everything he could to improve the quality of life for Burlington residents and in the next election. He had doubled voter turnout and had One by quite a bit more. When he ended up stopping running as mayor he was at seventy percent favorability so then he ran for Congress and again people were like? Oh I don't know I don't know 'cause it was the whole state. He lost by three percentage points in eighty eight in ninety one by sixteen because they listened and they learned who he was does and now the last The last eleven morning consoles polls have said that Bernie is the number number one favourite senator in the in the country so Anyone eighty six percent of the vote in the Democratic primary against just Hillary in Vermont. So what happened is and I just wish we had more time. All the time as people have gotten to know him they've realized is he's not this caricature that the media sets out that this Totally focused on Democratic Socialism. He's he's funny Johnny. He's warm when he was. It was an interview in which he was asked. What would you want to be remembered for? And he said compassion and I thought Oh that was a real surprise that he said that that's true that's who he is. He's compassionate. He says I hear the words and every speech here love and compassion. uh-huh I never see that soundbite on the evening news now. What else can you tell us about him that That people should know or maybe you said to him. You know you should show the site of a little more whatever you know. He's pretty private person very private when he his favorite thing is to come home and be with the kids and the grandkids and play baseball outside or soccer or touch football or and or play chess or she has to match here and watch. TV now he doesn't watch TV thing. I've noticed material. You know just all of us trying to keep up with them. I'm just saying but he's always moving. Yeah like we're backstage or whatever there's like two more speakers or whatever he's moving around he's looking at his note seasonally and I said I said to one of the people on our crew here this this is how you wanna live a long life. Yeah do he is not sitting down in a chair. No He's not in the when he plays chess or checkers with the kids. That's when you can get them seated right and he has this ipad out and he shows them you know he has them listen to classical music and talks about it or you know I mean. I don't think think people I've ever seen him at any time. They come up with a question or they're interested in something he'll look at he'll look it up and show great. Baseball players is back in the back in the day or great politicians talking about things leaders. He's an educator. I think I think most people don't understand that what about him but professionally and personally. He likes to explain history to to the community and to His grandchildren Cole. Our oldest at one point said yeah. GRANDPA always teaches us. Something always so I mean those are things that you might not no. He's he's a really doting grandfather. A wonderful father and I think I think he's a great husband so I'm lucky. Yeah Yeah I noticed too. Just to his He's very affected when people tell him of their lives. He's very present isn't he. Actually listens actually listening right. Yeah this is somebody who was raised in the working class. This is somebody who was not raised with money And again because he's talked more about this year than in two thousand sixteen but he he and his brother lived Pray and a half room rent controlled told department. They slept in the living room as they grew up. You know bedroom no but that was fine. The you know as far as he was concerned he. But what's interesting. Is You know people talk about age and I think Just like fine wine Bernie has gotten better with age. She's he was more dogmatic earlier on in his career. More intellectual more focused on what the facts were and now. He's so much more focused. He knows the facts their second nature to him But he's focused on the impact of reality on the actual the people people. He's focused on the people he listens he learns and then he acts on that and he's done more introspection about his earlier years. You know thinking about that. Just his you know he'd early on. I don't remember him talking so much about his father. He talked about his mother an and her having heart surgery and dying young and never realizing her dream of owning a home. But he's thought more about his dad bad as time has gone on about him coming from Poland at seventeen with very little money. Hardly any the skills hardly any education but he came to make a better life. I mean it was really very difficult. There are a lot of his family was wiped out in the Holocaust. Right you know. We kind of grew up with cousins. Yeah now and families who had one side or both sides right so the family wiped out that extended family were. We've got. We have family back in Ireland. We have all this now. That's not the The struggle of of his family of him being raised And and then becoming who he became. It's it's it's Yeah it's quite remarkable. Well we went back to Poland's With his brother and his wife life to go learn more and Bernie tends to not look back or focus on himself at all so that experience we went to osh weights We met with people that knew his family It was it was very moving and very instructive directive from a personal point of view to what he knew intellectually how delicate how fragile democracy is and and how much difference one election can make right so and how people can be moved in ways that you would never ver- Trim of all right so that made him in twenty sixteen he knew he recognized Donald Trump. And he he knew that he had to do everything he could to defeat him. Then that's why he did. I don't know thirty nine forty one. Yeah somewhere between thirty thirty nine four forty two rallies Hillary Hillary rallies he's doing for. It's a why why does this again. And this is another weird trope rope but see. That's that's one of the things that that's one of the things that's really bad about politics today. Somebody says it. They repeated enough. The establishment and repeats in enough. The media repeats that enough it becomes fact even if it's totally untrue. He he did quite a bit and the other thing. That's factually incorrect. As that well Bernie's supporters So many of Bernie supporters wouldn't vote for Hillary well according to the AH the exit polls they say that twelve percent of his supporters might not have voted for for Hillary and and that includes very safe blue states and I think people made that choice when they were in very sale states. Now some people made that choice otherwise but with Hillary twenty five percent of her supporters. Didn't vote for Obama. They voted for John McCain voted for John McCain and bomber ran a great exactly but Obama ran a really a good campaign and he won anyway with twice as many super. So that's never talked about right right. And so it's I guess I he and Bernie to are very fair minded people we want just the facts just make sure things are told that the the truth is told that the process is fair. If that happens then we're fine no matter what happens at these rallies in these events that we've had hand across the state this week. Another this whole Bernie Bro. Thin that trope on women in a lot we've been counting and it's about Depending where we are fifty five percent women forty percents men Some places sixty forty in favor of there's more women and you know what's so exciting Michael Just seeing the people who are are are donors their Walmart workers. They're Amazon workers. They're nurses versus their teachers. There are people that Bernie is really trying to help and it. It's getting through to the people and as you say it's getting through to the people on top to and they're just not saying we don't want this they're saying. Oh it's a ludicrous idea or Bernie can't win And and we'll we'll see what happens. We hope that the we will have a vibrant democracy during this election. That people will participate and be allowed. Oh to participate that the there were some difficulties in the caucuses not here in Iowa but in caucuses and primaries in terms of voter suppression all was who went through I think twenty sixteen are very much on top of this but we also know that because the they are going to let the super delegates back back into the convention if there is a second ballot so who with to win this on the on the first ballot and we we need to reach out ought to look to the Warren supporters in this Starting when they're in the gymnasium at the caucus a Monday and the candidate corners around the others and many others that won't be viable at the Yes you know in various places Amy Klobuchar has worked with Bernie on whole pharmaceutical thing. I mean these are. These are people that have Chelsea Gabbert Andrew Yang Tom Steyer I mean. They all have very good points in various an if they're not viable we would welcome their supporters I think the concern here. Michael is by having so many people in the Democratic primary getting fifty point one percent of the delegates on the first ballot is essential in order to not have the super delegates overturn. The wishes of the people will of the people. Yeah my my I hope is and as I said earlier. We just want a fair process. A fair shake and I think that people are expecting expecting that. Whoever walks in with plurality of votes will get the nomination right? We've been through this so many times where they go the safe fraut Joe Biden Running these ads now pick the safe candidate. I'm the SAFE CANDIDATE SAFE candidate. Michael is the one that trump can't Portray as INAUTHENTIC or hypocritical. That's Bernie the safe one is the one that It can go toe to toe with him. On trade and Working People The impacts of of our economy on the working class whereas whereas he had a faux populist message Bernie has a real populace message and I think having truth go against unst dishonesty is the best way. It's the safest way to win this election that to me that is safe. What's not safe as is every time we've tried to put up a candidate? They voted for the Iraq war. That candidate has lost. I'm tired of losing will you and I we have to get. We're heading out to southeastern the Stern Iowa. Today we're going to a couple of town halls together and So my my last question is this because I just I I. I've got to stop watching the at the New York Times endorsement show. Because I'm a big fan of comedy and sat and our Bernie was just classic Bernie. I'm not GonNa do as the voice. But the way he's he says he told these New York Times reporters he's never going to send them a birthday card or call them and I right happy birthday because he's just not that kind of guy it just we can store slapping that good at that so he can get a good story for himself if you just call them which is happy birthday any he and he said the word bullshit on. TBN never heard. Where did that much out not certainly on TV? But it's but that he just you could just see that he does. He's it just isn't going to take any shit and he's not gonna blow smoke at you. Right he went in there knowing full well and he. He's wherever he is when he's interviewed. He's just Bernie. He just says what he thinks and he you know he means what he says and he does. It walked in there and by the way that you could see his walk in Eighth Avenue There Tiso. He looks like he's being led to the Gulag. Well he figured he wasn't sure he was going to go. And I said you know. They're going to be having transcripts they're going to be having the video of the interview and your point of view won't be represented. He's an a good point you know. There's no way that they're ever going to endorse me. So it's a waste of time but you're right it shouldn't i. My point of view has to be in the mix so that people can hear certainly the public watching this you see view see Roughly six candidates that are good versions of each other And then there's the one because you look at that and you can see his the outlier there that. He's very much the loner her and yet you look at him in Iowa New Hampshire Nevada and California and Vermont. He's not alone so it's he the people say oh. Nobody supports them. That's what that's what the nitty keeps going up in the polls not only the the highest approval rating of any of the one hundred. It senators I for the last number of years. They've been asking this question. If it's the Reuters poll of WHO's the elected official the politician that you admire fire the most number one yep every year yes that's across all that's Republicans Democrats number one is Bernie Sanders What I have seen here are in Iowa is that he is he is beloved that my some we hope a majority? Yes yes well. Yeah you don't know and I'm just I'm on the road. I see I see it on the sidewalk. I see it backstage. I see it with the crowds and I've seen a different version than what is being presented necessarily on the on the evening news this but this is a long way of ending our podcast today by asking if he's ever given you a birthday card in fact no oh. He's given me birthday presents. He takes me out but no no no all Mars Laura Marquez or him he actually rights or does his own thing right now right now all the time when we when we got married we were we worked on her vows. We wrote two different versions on the morning of he was like I was like Bernie. which ones are we going to use on the phone? We weren't together and oh we'll go with this. Okay so I get up there and I you no no pretty much my vows. We had thought them through. He forgot all of it and he gave the best ones of just totally from the heart. He just said Ed but you know so I said why do we even bother to do that. Because Bernie speaks from the heart. Yeah so But I think I think it's important right now Michael People think if people say Bernie can't win and that he's not liked by anybody anybody it's because he's not liked by those who don't want change who are quite happy with the status quo. There's no doubt about that that the people that are happy with the way things are going. Don't like Bernie the people who have Concerns about their healthcare concerns about their children their parents their education climate change especially really do like Bernie because they understand stand. He's there to fight for them to transform this country to be the country that we all want it to be where we value each other. Four four our diversity instead of in spite of it and and And that we want a civil society one ed we can be proud of I you know. I want to be as proud of this country as I am about my husband and I think we will do on that note Thank you very much for this time. Thank you Michael. And thanks for the PODCAST. See you were told to. It was going to take a long time to reach so many people. No and that's why I know I'm still kind of pinching myself. That A couple of microphones and few ideas And And here here we are. I'm grateful to the people listening. And if you are listening right now This has been Dr Jane Sanders. It's it's been good and I I will not. I will not wait for my birthday card to come to me and you know it's even more important things to do. I want the real deal. And and that's what we have here and God bless you him and thank him for what you're doing for this country but thank you everybody who's listening and To rumble rumble with Michael Moore. And and we'll be back at you hear probably tomorrow We'll see them. Take Care of Michael thank you thank you. Aw I just want to mention that the underwriter for today's episode Soda Is Anchor Podcast Platform. These are the free podcast. People that Will help you or anybody. Who wants to start a podcast? They'll get you going and they'll gen on all the platforms from spotify Apple Google stitcher and they do it for free. They don't charge you a dime. I mean this is all about the democratization of audio. CEO so that everybody can have a voice online like this

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