Ep. 59 Atelier Cologne Co-Founder Sylvie Ganter
The following podcast is a deer media production. I liked to describe that today. Colon was born at a lot of chaos because when when you make a change in your life that is so drastic something that you hadn't planned that you had anticipated. That was not how you were picturing your life. You sort of don't you don't make any compromises about anything. Hey, guys. Welcome to breaking beauty the podcast olive at the best selling beauty products and the damn good stories behind them where your hosts Carleen Higgins and Jill done. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to breaking beauty podcast. Hey carleen. Hey, jell O. You're sending a little nasal e once again once again, but that's not going to stop me from talking about fragrances today s we have our second ever fragrance founder on the show today. Yeah. We've got Sylvie Gantner on the Mike. She is the co founder of atelier Cologne, which she launched with her business and life partner Christoph service L back in two thousand and nine. So if you're good at math, you know, that was ten years ago. And it's a great time to look back at all of the crazy success that this brand has achieved in such a short amount of time. Really? I think there are a great example of the indie fragrance, boom and the brands that are kind of killing it right now they were acquired by L'Oreal locks in twenty sixteen. And that was just a couple of years after Lolab. Oh, another one of our favorites was acquired by Estee Lauder. And I think it's because people really want to smell unique. They want a sad that isn't so easy to find that forever quest for the signature sant-. Right represents you. Absolutely. And you just yeah. You don't want it to be easily recognizable. Like a lot of the commercial ones that are out there. I was like what you're saying. It can't be your signature, and my best friend signature. So right. Yeah. So when Sylvie and her husband, I launched the brand they had an idea, and that was to create this whole new ole fact of family called Cologne. Absolute and coal ole fact, family that just means like a cent family, the idea was to take the classic Cologne. Style of unisex citrus blends and formulate them in such a way that they had really long lasting power. Because typically with you know, colognes you would wear them in the summer in you'd. Pour them into your hand and splash them on your body, and they have a a large water concentration. So the only thing with that is it would fade fast, right? Well, yeah. Citrus. Notes volatile. They're always the top note. They evaporate quick. So their whole MO is to get long lasting sense from these raw materials, and they did it. Yeah. And we're going to take you behind the brand going way back into their origin story. Like we love to do. What's really unique about this particular fragrance brand is that it's born from a love story, Sylvia and Kristoff her former boss turned boyfriend began their romantic relationship at the same time that they started this new business. So everything was kind of converging at once. And it was all coming from an overflow of passion. Yeah. All in the name of love. And as most love stories, go the ones that are really worth it. They are often kind of complicated. And there were a lot of obstacles that the two of them had to overcome in order to be together, Sylvie doesn't shy away from the. Topic? She gives us a lot of juicy details in this episode. And somehow it does play into the fragrance story like fragrances or really about emotions and energy. And instinct, and I think you kind of get all that when you hear her talk about I tell ya Cologne. Yeah. The story is just so French Sylvie is that quintessential French beauty. She's got those natural waves. She has amazing style like Isabel. Miranda like great printed. Blouse the slow CI kind of cool pant the amazing boots leather boots as well. Yeah. Very boho. Very chic. Yeah. And off the air, we asked her what her skin care routine was. And she said what else that she makes her own skin care? So we are running. Now, we're trying to hunt down that recipe from her personally, we will report that we're going to try and share it with all of you. Of course. So no surprise, I tell ya colognes MS onto parfume is located in France where each of the thirty eight fragrances in the line are all made and. And since launch they've sold more than five hundred thousand bottles of fragrance in more than thirty countries the bestseller. That is going to tell us all about is the orange sanguine Cologne absolu-, seventy four US dollars and one hundred Canadian dollars for thirty m L. And then the price goes up from there, depending I think they have three different sizes. Were you surprised that orange was the bestseller? No. Yeah. No. I think oranges such a crowd pleaser. Right. I think everybody loves it. You know? And I read a review of this one online where somebody said it, smells when you put it on like as if you've freshly peeled and orange and then smell your hands. This is what that smells like. Yeah. So cool. Yeah. And if you're already a fan, if you guys I know you guys are savvy out there. So if you're already a fan of this product, they do have a special edition coming out in June in a beautiful collectible bottle, so keep your eyes peeled for that. Yeah. You have a personal favorite from the line. Right. Yeah. So I like the, blah blonde and Silvy was telling us. In her interview. She will be telling us that this is one of her favorites as well. And she has the best description for it. She says it's like the white t shirt and jeans of your fragrance wardrobes. So naturally, that's my favorite as well. It's a spicy. Woody unisex sent but it does have no role in it. Which if you're a regular listener, you know, I love my new Rowley. But I think because it's like a blend of these white woods it's fresher than how you would. Normally imagine a spicy Woody for daytime. It's very clean. Yep. Yeah. My favorite is one call Citron, blah, which I hope I'm not butchering that. But essentially, this is like a lemon maple syrup lemon me, and it was actually all inspired by their trip to Canada a few years ago. And obviously, we have an abundance of maple hair maple syrup kind of icon egg. So it's really bright with the lemon. But then it kind of drives down a little sweeter with the maple syrup. Very very unique. I would have to say and. I what I love about the I'll tell ya Cologne. I love all of their travel cases. And so this particular set I have a few Attila colognes at home, and they all have little leather sleeves that I use to protect the bottle when I'm traveling the little thirty mil guy. And this one has a bright yellow leather case on it. And so in my mind, I just always think of this as their yellow perfume. I don't know if that's kind of like certain colors, get associated with certain sense. It's cool. Definitely a key part of their branding. I know they had a pop up in New York where everything was kind of like rainbow colored and really beautiful. So I think that you know, that's what they want is you associate this color with the fragrance and those leather pouches are so cute. I love that. You can have them in grave. They're perfect for gifting. Oh, yeah. And they just haven't brand new sent that came out this year called Pacific lime, and it's like vacation in a bottle. I'm telling you, it's like Mexico, really bright. And it's like bright pink fuchsia. Yeah. And I think that's going to be a crowd pleaser tail. Yeah. So of course there at Sephora, but I'll tell ya Cologne also has over twenty stores summer in North America. Also in Europe, and Asia and the latest one just opened in New York at Hudson yards, which everybody's buzzing about Hudson yards of there and the whole vibe of the store while at tell ya is basically meaning a workshop, right? So when you go in you get that vibe, it's like Papa Kerry meets library Meeks meets workshop sort of. And there's a whole gifting wall, and they have candles and you get to really immerse yourself in their whole world. Have this personalized experience. So the really on a roll they're growing and in this episode. You're going to hear the damn good story about how at tell ya Cologne came to be including all the passion behind the blends and the romance. Yeah. And you're going to hear Sylvia's tips for finding your own signature scent. How to tell someone that you love that. They're perfume is just killing you talking about me. Right. No tips on making your fragrance last. We also asked her which commercial fragrance. She does not like which one that everybody else loves and she's not a huge fan of. Yep. And how to wear it for sensitive skin. Yes. I asked that question. Yeah. I sell got him more sensitive as I grow older. But I do not want that to mean that I can't wear purview. I news is such a good hack. I was like very happy about that. So let's start at the very beginning to where Sylvie grew up in where else the south of France. My name is Sylvie gander, French the founder of actor leaker Donya. It's a Muslim Tabatha of perfume house. And we founded the perfume house was my husband in two thousand nine. So we celebrating our tenure anniversary this year. So getting into your childhood if you could bottle it all up what would it smell like? And why? It was like Provence I grew up in the south of France. And there was a lot of lavender. There were some in the guardian orange blossom is probably also like sent that is very reminiscent of my childhood now because it was in the garden, but my mom for some reason was cooking a lot with it. So to me, it brings me to her kitchen and. I'm not up his Cape. Like, my my father was first house. You say driving pain. We don't see that. Fly pain flying Hypolito a pilot, which is like for fun like small panes so during weekends. It was oh, let's go and have a picnic like the other side of France. And it was just like takeoff and just like go to a completely random location. So have started to travel quite young and just discovering new places. And then my mother was scared about him flying too much. So you stub flying and bought a boat. So we started sailing for a couple of years and would spend the entire summer like on the water. So my childhood is also spending like the sea like vegetarian Enzi, very salty, sunny, breezy. You're making me want to travel. And I understand that. You're also part talion. So yeah, tell us about how that factored into your child. I'm happy talion the father and mother of my dad where Bosa talion, but my father was born in France. So I don't feel I inherited Italian from him because he only spoke to me in French. But I was spending. A lot of time was my grandparents there were speaking Italian to others. So I know quite a few sentences. I can argue in the talian, but I think what it meant to me or my recollection of it as a lot to do with cooking. Like, my grandmother was she was sort of like the glue to the feminist. She would host like a a lunch every single Sunday cook for everyone like my parents, and I and my brother brutal so her daughters and her family, but also my grandparents on my mother's side would be invited. And she would make like hen made pasta and always the most fantastic sauce and she had like this beautiful garden. So she would cook. Whatever it was in the garden, then she also had a small farm. So I have a mazing like cooking memories with her. She taught me so much and I still try to convey some of those recipe in my family. So what did you study in school? Like a lot of people don't set out to become fragrance, creators, what was your path? So it's funny because I really didn't have one. And that's sort of. I don't know reassures me today because I'm a mother and my kids have no clue what they want to do. And I'm like, it's perfectly. Okay. I didn't know I was I was a hardworking students like I wanted to please my parents. So I wanted to do well for them. I studied the piano for eighteen years fifteen years. I don't know. I was good at math. I was selected to go to an engineering engineer school in in the UK in Coventry. I enjoyed that. At the end of that. I thought I wanted to be a math teacher. But then I went sailing for the summer was my parents, and a friend of mine was like oh off a prior to this amazing business go in the south of France. And because of the diplomat we have in England they're interested in our profile. You should go and interview. And I went an interview gut the gut the school and went in and I entered studied like international business. So that was like nothing had to do with one another. And then my dad was working in LA capture company. So I had done all my internship working there, and I had to do like a six months, internship at the end of my studies, and it was sort of an abused choice for me. And I remember the director of my school say like do you want to work in tears your entire life? And I was like no it was. So then you can do that internship. And I was so upset at him at the time thinking like why don't you want me to do this? And is it like, what do you really want to do in life like where do you want to work, and I looked at him being sort of a little bit rebellious in? Yeah. Like, you know, I could see myself working for Chanel, or is it will prove me you cannot get an internship with them. If you want me to approve this, internship for you. And I wanted to prove him wrong more rights. I dunno. I got was right. And I got an internship at. At the time in perfume and that internship to turn into like eight years of working with them and having a lot of fun. So this is where I learned so much of what I know today. And what led you to New York Aramis again, I was twenty five and they sort of tricked me. So I was overseeing what was called America's. So, you know, making sure that the perfumes affirm as will represented in Canada what we're sending to a whole trend for at the time in the US and in Latin America and in the Caribbean. And I one point there were like, you know, in the US, we feel we could do more. We could use your expertise you so passionate about the Browns. Why don't you go to New York for six months, and you know, the GM just left just try to go and help the team because the ozone there and tried to figure out what we should do. And we we should hire for the job. So as I call k grades like, you know, what an experience what an adventure. I kept my apartment, I kept everything sort of the same in France. But like move for six months, and I had such a great time because there was no pressure for me to dwell. There was nobody doing the job. So I had to do something. But I was not given the Trump and at the end of the six months, I give my boss, I had a bus in New York. I had a bus in Paris. And I give them my recommendation of with the ideal GM would be. Be and what the ideal strategy and priority should be. And then they look at me. And they're like, oh, you didn't get it. Like, you're going to do it. We were just testing you out. So naive. We like, what's. At what point did you? Meet your husband, and the co founder of at tell ya, Cologne Kristof serve as El okay? So after atmos- I worked for fresh for five years, and I was very lucky to work next to the founders eleven there were like second family to me, and I was helping them on many fronts in sales and marketing and NPR, and it was very much a family away from home because I was living quite far away. And once I receive a phone call from a headhunter, offering me to meet like this new company that does perfume for fashion designers, and I had no interest in taking the job. But I was very intrigued in the men who had created the company because a lot of my friends used to work with them under him above him, some some of his bosses he hired after when he created his company they went to work for him. So was intriguing meeting him and. So I went on a job interview. He had no clue was French. We spoke. We spoke for about an hour and at the anti something to him in friendships. Oh, you have no accent. When you speak French. It's because I'm French, but he hadn't read my resume end thought that was perfectly normal because he didn't want to be infants, but we we met that way. And I remember after meeting him telling him, you know, I enjoyed meeting you. I don't want the job because I don't know how to do multi-brands. I'm I want to do one thing at a time. I don't believe that fragrance has to hold onto a fashion designer to say something like raw materials alone are enough to tell a beautiful fragments stories to I wouldn't feel comfortable telling a story through the eyes of fashion designer I said, but I really want to spend more time with you. Because you've been an entrepreneur since you were really young. And I'm inspired by that like, you know, I want to start my company one day, and and love some inputs and stuff was like, okay. Like you want help? But you don't want the job. And and his response was more like, okay, take the job. And then I'll explain you held to become an entrepreneur. So we spend a solid like two hours and a half on the phone where it convinced me that I should take the job that I didn't want and I did. So we worked together for one year, we launched many fashion designer perfume in the US and under a lot of fun. But I'm I discovered someone that was I don't know somehow my counterpart counterpart to work wise, we are very different, but very complementary. It was giving me a lot of stress. Like he I liked to describing as sometimes running before thinking. And sometimes I think too much so the some of the two together sort of worked and we work together for two years before. No actually a little over a year before he told me that it was leaving the company. I remember being so angry. I was like I came for you. Now, you tell me that you'll leaving. So then I was really mad. I told him I would quit any gut very honored that I would quit before because he was quitting. But then over like a nice dinner together. I assured with him my dream, which was to create a mess on the phone that. Would celebrate citrus is or do Cologne, very modern way and was lasting power. Any loved the AD. We realized what we're wearing the same colonial that might. It was the coined by moolah and any sort of made a deal with me. It was like, okay, I'll help you out, but you sort of have to marry me which was sort of weird because we had even kissed or had any Romans together. But that was his way of sort of. I don't know. Taking a chance at life. And I feel like you've shared the story with me before it was a little complicated. When he told you that he loved you. Right. Yeah. Because we at the time we were not only we were both married. We had very very young children. The two of us. We were not living in this country. I was in New York he was in Paris. And it was like, I I like you. But I, you know, this is just like not an option, and I like you because I'm impressed by you. I like you professionally, but like, I never looked at you. I never felt it could be that. But that moment was a sort of big trigger for the two of us. I think we allowed ourselves to listen to our hearts, and sort of feel that if it were a fitting this way, maybe maybe there was something in our life. That was missing. And so it was a cumbersome complicated. Years too. Make this become the new norm. But actually Koran was born out of that. And I I like to describe that today. Colon was born at a lot of chaos because when when you make a change in your life that is a drastic something that you hadn't planned that you had anticipated. That was not how you were picturing your life. You sort of don't you don't make any compromises about anything. And I feel that after today Koran was born being the best version of ourselves our true selves. So we made no compromise on the sourcing of the materials on the glass manufacturer, we picked because why would we like, you know, we hadn't made a compromise in our love life, and we didn't accept something that would have been the norm. So I think it's it really helped us, and and we kept that spirit of never making a compromise. Either. We either we agree on something. And we're sure about it. And we go forward or if one us to convince the other too much probably it's not a good decision to make our good road to take. And what year was that? When you first had the idea he you had that phone call. Oh, the phone. Call was Christoph was two thousand six two thousand six. Okay. So at the time like I had my first one was like two and a half years. Three years old. My newborn was just born like, you know. I was not in a place of like thinking that you know, that phone call would like change my life. And yeah, it was a couple of years between the meeting the interview, and then the declaration, and then making it official and becoming a couple like we became an official couple in two thousand nine although we had met in two thousand six so it's it's a little bit of time so ten years in and you're. We getting married again. We've already got married five years ago, but we've decided to remarry cool. The thing was when we got married the first time with our first, husband and wife. We said, yes. Forever and believing. Yes forever. And then you realize that when you save forever. You don't really know. And maybe that forever not forever. And then it makes you really sad. And you feel disappointed by yourself. You feel you disappointing others. And and you doing what you said you were going to do. So then we said we never getting married again. Like, you know, we. This is it we've done it once and this is not something that's for us. But then our kids kept asking us like we headed a little baby. After creating today Koran we had a child together. And and the kids asking us to be a normal family like how come you're not married like we won't parents to be married and sui eventually said, yes. And we said, yes, not to the future. But more to the past is like, you know, our wedding was marking our five year anniversary. And it was like, okay. In five years. We've accomplished so much. We've created a Browns. We've had a baby we have a new blended family. We raising the children between two countries and commuting and and sort of making it work, and we wanted to celebrate where we were at that time was people that we loved and there was a lot of fun, no pressure. No forever. And. And we're about to celebrate five years again. And what better way to do this then to get married again? So we doing it again. And we'll be in France. Or this time it will be Italy. It will be in Positano, which is the place where we also took our Arnie moon before the wedding Woodson will you wear on your wedding day. So it's funny. I was asking that question to myself this morning, and I don't know yet. But I think the first time I were Webb little web noise. The sense that I originally created for myself like I want to feel that it would be the sense of my skin. If I didn't have perfume. I don't think I'll do the same one this time. And I'm thinking I'm going to go towards vici tile, which is essentially love, and I of Viva happens to be my favorite from its aerial. We harvest it in IT, and it's Ikom. They always something very raw dark earthy route and grounded about it. And I think that's how I feel about this like marriage. So. Because I think that's the one hour. So when you guys started I'll tell ya Cologne. It was really about your shared passion for perfume and Cologne. Can you explain what a Cologne is versus an toilet versus another von and perform I feel like when you grow up in France. This is just second nature. You just got it. So the true meaning of Nanya means a perfume. That is built with citrus is so citrus as we all know citrus lemon, and our Ange, but it can be element of your stream like the orange blossom you can also use like the the leaves the branches. But citrus is as fresh as they are. They're very volatile. So you get a perfume that's fairly like invigorating up front, but it fades very quickly. So that's typical colonial and to make it a little bit more complicated from concentration standpoint, a typical the as very little essential oil. So usually about five percent of essential oil and the rest being alcohol to really convey that to this gin. Is you cannot really put like pure central owners. Can it would be like to intense and like almost to the point of burning your skin? So that's another Koran then order toilet is a construction that has citrus, but not just interest is it can have wooded can have flowers. It's usually built like a pyramid. So what comes up front is what very fresh, and then what tends to sit on your skin or Rome. It's real that are like more intense, richer like woods or like vanilla or amber. So things like imagine being sort of like more greasy and sort of sticking more to this kin another toilet would be from concentration standpoint anywhere between five and ten percents of essential the rest alcohol order by phone would be like ten to fifteen percent off a central oil and a pure perfume would be over fifteen percents. We up to formulate all Arab perfume at more than fifteen percents. So we go up to twenty three percents. So the quantity of essential oil is extremely high Leica perfume. But our partake. Clarity. Is that we use an overdose of citrus in everything we do. So when I was describing the shape of the pyramid for a perfume Finke Farah creation more like an hourglass. The top layer is like the large top. Let's have citrus is. So they're going to be fresh upfront, but they will fade quickly then you enter like the heart of the perfume. But then there was a strong base to really support it and Anchorage on the skin, and that's sort of what defines us rows. So that's really different compared to everything else. That's out there. I think so I think so. We like to zero in on the best seller on how an Andor stand that. It's the orange thing green that. Right. Can you tell us about it? What do people love about it so much? It's a funny one because it's one of the first five that we created in when we were working on the brands. It was a sense that was a little citrus. You know, if you say kalani is a perfume built around citrus is I felt we had to have one. That was an obvious citrus. And everybody knows ranches like you eat them. You drink them in Narin juice that gets a it's a very familiar sanded can take to summer, it can take you to holiday and Christmas time. I wanted to do like an obvious interest. And I remember Christoph every time it would sell like smell the trials. Ebay. That's great. But nobody wants to smell like that. You know? It's a great Sanford home. It's a room sprayed could be a great cancel. But like, it's too simple. It's too easy. And then he would go on and smell the other ones. And every time I would I was trying I was convinced of that blood, orange and one day. I tricked him. I was like stuff. You know, every time you words, say all the good reason why we should launch it. But everytime you smell this. You I close your eyes, you smile, and then you give me all the good reason not to launch. But if we can give a smile to everyone that smells this these people who like her brand like the VM ties to just like feel good about it. And like maybe want to try more. And that's how we decided to launch this product to meets a happy sense. Like, it's a it's very most like very much like sunshine and a bottle or like a vacation in like a C or Italy or like. Very sunny and summery, and it just takes you happy place. So to this day still one of our best center, we have more best setters now. But but I'm glad that this one is is I con EQ, and we want to feel for it. If you would be the equivalent of an Oscar in the movie industry, we want over I fe- for for this creation. So perfume is very personal in many of spend years trying to find that one that represents us that you can wear every single day. What advice do you have? Or do you give women to help them find that signature sunt Sifford? My first comment would be like don't put too much pressure on yourself. Like, you don't have just one outfit or one way to do. You make up a one way to do your hair. I think perfume she just be fun and playful, and sort of help you was you mood was what you going through. So personally, I know that if I don't think like my signature perfume would be like a jeans and white t shirt. Parts and tennis shoes and no makeup and putting tell there is a sense that I love for that moment for me. It's web him his very sheer very transparent we talked about it earlier. But then if I go to let's see a business meeting where I'm challenging to do something that is a little bit out of my comfort zone like being on microphone. Now. Maybe I want to wear something to give me a little bit more confidence. Give me a little bit more strength. So I would say I have a who work perfume. But like more like a something that gives me sort of courage and strength that I may not be able to find on my own. And then let's say I go on a date with my husband. I don't want to wear what I'm wearing during the day. Like, you know, I want to the same way I'll change my clothes, and and do make up on my eyes or I want to wear something that's going to put me in a different mode or frame of mind. And then you know, if you have a few and you gravitates toward of Hugh, then you will. Easily find the one that confronts you when you need it most, or or, you know, makes you feel like it's a bright and sunny day, even if it's crappy outside, but I feel you you learn by trying you're doing by wearing the same way, you would like define what is your style. You know, what is your style for dressing? I think perfume is very similar. You have to experiment before you fall of like fragrance wardrobe a little bit a little bit without making it like too complicated or too. You don't need to own a tone. But like just perfume as this amazing ability to speak to your emotion to speak to your memory. And I feel when you try something in a store or you try something on your skin that it speaks to you. Then it's greats. Doesn't mean it has to speak to you in every occasion. So I would just recommend, you know, women men to to have fun and try and see whether naturally drawn to I have a question for you. As a fragrance expert, I've run into the so many times where I have a loved one a have they ever sent Velu of. But I don't like how do you politely tell someone? They should maybe try something different. I have this was my husband. So there is a cent. We have created that I love, but I love it in small does when Costa squares it, it tends to bathe in it, and he decided one day that it was his perfume for the car. So he keeps it in the glove compartment, and he gets into the car and like sprays it all around. It's too much. So I've tried nicely to tell him. It was too much. And then I told him nicely that this is one he wears when he travels without me. And it doesn't mean that. I don't have the perfume. It just means that I don't have it on him that much. So I feel. Yeah. If it's a loved one, you have to be honest, and it can be it can be offensive to me around someone that smell something that makes you uncomfortable the same way, you know, he knows that there send that I like on him. And I don't know, you know, the same weather a close eye on him. And I think he enjoys the fact that I tell him so I'll be very direct. Is there an iconic sent that? You don't care for at all what would that be out? Probably take the example of angel. It's the perfume was created by a woman I adore called vast Hobie. She's like a legend to me. And she's a variable woman was a vision where a quiz ta McGuire to create this product and this product, you know, you can say you love it. You can see you hate it. I wore it. I was obsessed by it. I couldn't stop sniffing myself because it was too intense. And today, I smell this on someone. It's almost I come. I got it's too much. It's too much. It's taking too much space. But at the same time, I love what it creates that's sort of like love or hate, you know, addiction bulletin, and I think perfume can be that to you know, we were talking about like sheer perfume and something that's more like your jeans white t shirt, no makeup type of look like makeup can also be your smokey is or your bright red lip, and it can be sort of a facet of yourself. You want to enhance? So so would say even the most polarizing sense can be just right at the right moment. So so I love and just good to know where it was. And do you have a tip for listeners about the best way to apply fragrance? And what what should they maybe not do? So I tried to save things. First before you, even committing to a sense spending it on paper and spending it on the skin is very different. So would make sure to I've worn something on this gin long enough before committing to purchasing like having it part of your world. Then another thing that I like to recommend is when you spray to have like a distance. I don't know if that much would be like thirty centimeters twenty thirty centimeters. You don't want to have the alcohol dripping. So you don't want to go to close. You don't want to be too far either to have it all around. And don't rub your wrist like, I compare rubbing the wrist like reading the NFL book, you know, like you use skip to the end because you wanna. You know, how it ends like to me seeing how a perfume involves on this kin is just part of the process that you put it on. And what comes up I is again what's going to be very volatile and fresh, and then it transitioned into something else. And then what sits on your skin becomes yours. So don't warm it up dome. And then put it in places that are comfortable for you. Like, I know for me. Inside of the wrist is a nice base because it moves with you. I tend not to do under my ears because I find it to be a little too close to my nose. But I like the tip of my hair like in the back of my hair sort of like they moved during the day. So the send comes back, and if I were something that's a little too powerful from my tasting. But a scent I really love angel for instance. I would go behind my knees. Like you project a drop behind your niece a sentence there with you. It's also a pulse point. So it will warm up, you know, throughout the day the central come out, but not interfere too much with your face. How can you make your fragrance lasts longer? I think that that is something that a lot of people struggle with invade love something and like you said with citrus they can kind of. Yeah. Disappear quickly not always. But sometimes how you make it look to me. They're like sort of two basic rule. The first one is your skin has to be well hydrated. So if your skin is really dry the sand is not going to convey as long as it does on a wellness Riskin. So one of the thing, I do I find it very easy because unlike using a lot of cream, and then you cannot really get dressed I love almond oil. So if you use on oil like before taking your shower, you just put it on your, buddy. And then your take your shower and you wash and then you get out you have that sort of like healthy glow. And it feels like it nurture your skin integrates way. And then it will help with with it on Chevy t-. So you won't to use something that's like nut scented. You know, that doesn't take over the other advice. I would give is to change your perfume. Because you get used to it. You know, it's like if you eat the same meal everyday at some point is sort of tasteless, you don't notice the the taste anymore. It's the same as perfume when? You used to something people around you can tell you all you smell so good. But I don't smell it. It's just because it became so familiar that you sort of forget that it's there. So that's why it's sort of fun to to play with it and change. It's great. And our final question, which we ask all of our founders is what advice would you go back and give yourself ten years ago when you were starting this brand. To fuller your guts. I feel I feel when you have something in you. That's sort of like that you're passionate about that you believe. And when you do it with love and passion, you cannot do it wrong. Like, yes, you can make mistake, and you can learn from them. But at least whatever you've done you've done it like believing in it fully. Yeah. I guess I could have remind myself that more. Yeah. And I'll try to continue to remind myself that thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. Visit breaking beauty podcast dot com. For details on all the damn good products. We talked about in today's episode and be sure to sign up for our newsletter that way, you'll get every episode delivered right to your inbox. 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