Climate Change, Fake News and Kangaroos


Alot. Okay, I'm gonna say because I've made the mistake of these shoes. Welcome. She say space. We are a podcast, all about politics, pop culture and anything else that really catches. I am as will said Vicki mode trauma. This is our first solo live show. Great show lined up for you now. This is an art, I run and it's our first so alive show. So we've stacked it with as many big names, as I could get for relatively free. Say speaks we are creating a safe space for bad takes to do that every week. We are joined by a couple of friends who help us to make sense of the world this week. We're going to be joined by a whole host of smart and interesting and funny people and you're gonna meet them all as they come up on the stage. But first, we're going to spend some time talking about what is possibly the greatest challenge facing humanity? We're gonna talk about climate change at the top will did the land acknowledgement and that's important. But I think if we're gonna talk about climate change. We have to talk about this land, Toronto is the traditional territory of many nations, including the mississauga's at the new credit. The Amish knob egg Chippewa the Hoda schone and the here on dad peoples and, of course, is home to many nations and Mateen, people in Toronto is covered by treaty, thirteen of the Mississauga of the new credit and what we're talking about climate change. A lot of talking about our tree. Eighties. They are treaties old and they are treaties new in contrast. The current global goals and plans around climate change are kind of new in nineteen ninety two earth summit happens. And that's what gets us the Kyoto protocol, there are whole bunch of documents that kind of back up and complicate and extend the Kyoto protocols. But the idea there is to really focus on greenhouse, gas, emissions frosh forward to twenty fifteen hundred ninety six countries. Get together in Paris and agreed to do everything they can to make sure that there isn't a rise in global temperature of two degrees celsius all these documents accords conventions and summits, all agree on one simple premise, climate change is happening in humans are the cause which kind of brings us back to the land. The land is feeling it hard and the people on the land are feeling it as well. Our of the Capital, One hundred homes or. Gulf by the Ottawa river in this area. And now the military stepping in last year this part of BC dealt with an enormous fire that burned for weeks and the end torched nearly one hundred thousand hectares, but that fire started in late July not mid may, many of us are concerned, the communities are concerned all the way around us central VC is definitely heating every year. Why won't the prime minister given taxpayers break and said of engaging in high carbon hypocrisy? Garmin. If you like the party office, your worry that you're worried about cost, you should be worrying about the cost of we were passing kids climate change. Canadians. Joining us to talk about climate change are Fatima add in investigative reporter with the national observer. We'll have ninety green former Hamilton city councillor end EP in the coming election. Let me tell you about passion fresh from dinner that. She's literally hosting at her house right now. Diane sacks the former environment Commissioner for on -tario. That we talked earlier about some of the agreements that Canada has signed onto some of the big logo ones. What are some steps that the government is taking or has taken to meet these commitments, the short answer is they haven't taken enough stuff, but at the cornerstone of their climate plan is the carbon price. So what they've done is they've implemented a cap on how much emissions businesses and industry can produce. And if you exceed that you will be charged the opposition likes to call it a carbon tax and along with that there have been other investments in cleantech in home retrofit programs and electric vehicle programs, but really Canada is betting its money on the carbon price. And Dan, I want to talk about something you wrote in a report, when you were environment Commissioner where you said, no one can do everything, but everyone can do something. It's. Not too late. What do you say the people who think that well it is too late? If Canada's going to shift from being a resource driven economy, is that a possibility will it's late, but is not too late yet if we give up, it's definitely too late. But we, we have the most educated population, we've ever had one of the most educated populations in the world. We have access to renewable energy technologies that didn't exist in mature form, ten twenty years ago, we do have the federal carbon price, which is both the put based prison system that you mentioned and the broad-based fuel tax which were, which we all pay and conservation alone can take us maybe thirty percent of the way that was our best estimate that for the same cost or less. We could be using interior thirty percent less fossil fuels and that would be better for our health. It would be better for public well-being would be better for the environment that it would be better for our economy. So there are. Our opportunities to make things better and help the climate note. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we can do this in not notice. We've got to make big changes and we have to have to make them faster than we want to, because we've thrown away thirty years. But there, there is still an opportunity, but it's small and the window is closing in we keep we keep throwing it away. So, you know, one of the things I saw in that clip and has to do with how the political parties are kind of struggling against each other. There's a parties that are a bit more hesitant about how Canada wants to approach its climate change plans or take any kind of climate change action. Math year running in the coming federal election. You know, that debate did not inspire confidence democracy. How do you how do you envision a plan for Canada? That works. You'll Diane leaned over. She's like you want to get involved in that. And I thought to myself, you know, as a fodder three-year-old -absolutely, we have one hundred thirty five months left, we've had lots of con. Sations around climate change as the end of existence. It's an existential question but I don't think we're talking enough about the symptoms. I don't think that you can talk about catastrophic, climate change without talking about catastrophic capitalism, and what that looks like and so on a very practical level in my city, it looks like the freezing, and thawing of our scart mints. And the erosion of, of the escarpment it looks like flash floods. It looks like displacement of people, both domestically and internationally settling in Hamilton. And it looks like, you know, the, the, the shutting the shuttering of our manufacturing jobs. So we have to have a really honest conversation around, what it is willing to sacrifice in order to offset this in a way that is meaningful. We cannot buy our way out of climate change. And so we have to have a very serious conversation around our economy. Dan ventured about opportunities, you cover a lot of the political back and forth. His happening. And we talked about it a little bit when you're on the podcast weeks ago. What kind of responsiveness are you seeing politically to the questions around climate change? Unfortunately, it's back and forth when it shouldn't be climate change is real climate change is science. There should be no back and forth. But there is I cover on -tario politics, so you have a conservative government in power who says that the carbon tax is going to hurt households without mentioning the fact that climate change is going to kill households. You have an then in opposition, your, you know, the P is currently trying to get the government to create a select committee that is nonpartisan. So it has members from all parties to actually find solutions to fight the climate crisis. Will it pass? I doubt it. But that's the back and forth that we're seeing in the political realm. The idea of climate crisis means we need to change our way of life. We know the IPC report that said that we can't go. We can't let the world get warmer by more than one point five degrees, gave us a new normal. That is our target, we need to change our lifestyles to ensure that we meet that target. It's not a sacrifice. It's a change. There are opportunities as well. One person pointed out recently ninety eight percent of the mission reductions in the world are going to happen outside Canada. Do we want to be selling into those markets? Do we want to be successful in the economy of the twenty th century, or are we really contend to let China own it, and we, we're not being very aggressive about trying to be part of that green economy, and we could be doing a lot more than we are. And what the yell at each other. In the house is I mean it doesn't accomplish very much. But I think what can MP's MP's hear from their constituents matters a lot, every politician, I've met his told me the most powerful thing they can tell they colleagues is my constituents say, and they also tell me that they hardly ever hear about environmental climate at the door that people complain to them about anything is costing them money. Anything that sort of short term personal issue, but don't speak up about. These larger issues on which the whole basis of our civilization depends. So that's really the challenge for, for everyone is to find a way to speak up. Ideally, in person to your political representatives about these larger issues because if they if all they hear about his trinity prices, all they work on is pretending that they can do something, but electric prices. I mean that's a good point. You're going to be campaigning and I had avoided for all four seasons of this having politicians on the show. But now there's an election and I only wanna talk to politicians. How you know, when someone saying talking about some of the issues that are not climate oriented, how do you make that part of the conversation? I would actually push back against the assertion that it's not topical. I think that pulls lie. I think the politicians lie and I think that there's been a corporate capture of the narrative. And so this idea that the onus is being put back on individuals to change minor consumption patterns is a capitalist frame that has been put on, on society to take the onus off of major corporations, and in framing doubt way, you know, it shifts the responsibility, I can tell you this tomorrow. I'll be with hundreds of teens at city hall for the futures for Friday's rally this next generation is very tuned in, and we, we talked about this little bit on the side where they get it, and they get it in ways that I think are going to force the question, so we can no longer lie to the public and pretend like this isn't an issue. I would say that. Climate change. Catastrophic climate change will be the number one issue of this twenty nine hundred election. I just wanna add as a twenty seven year old I've known the word pollution, my entire life. I've also known the word climate change my entire life. I think my first project was about the tropical rainforests and how it was going to die because of climate change. I didn't have the tools to protests that but young people now do, and they are protesting, and they are making themselves heard, and I think, governments are not picking up on that and not acting effectively on the action that they're asking them to provide. And I think that's the shift. We need to see we need governments to actually listen to the people knocking on their doors and saying, hey, we're not going to have a future, if you don't do anything properly, and they're not answering that call. Well, it's not loud enough, yet it's gonna be louder. I mean, I think if, if a lot one of the things I heard about in Belgium is grandparents, and grandchildren rallies, that the grant that the children March in the streets, but they take their grandparents, and then like a good approach because first of all the grandparents are more likely to have time. Secondly. I mean, come on, Secondly, the grandparents are quite pleased that the grandchildren wanted to spend time with them, so that they're also more likely to go, but the third thing is the grandparents old them. Right. This is all happened during our working laws, right? Half of the climate pollution in the atmosphere has occurred during the last thirty years. How many people were in the workplace in the for the last thirty years? Okay. Well. Well, okay. It's on our watch. So the kids strike is important. But why aren't there lots and lots and lots of boomers out there supporting the kids saying your right? If I could like I think I think is very critical. What you how you position this conversation and we, you know, we're hearing, lots about the green new deal. It's out there. It's a brand. It's a. Oh, see I understand what's contained within. It's like it's to me, it's like a magic all clear, yet environment know inside this package. If you sign up, you will get a green new deal. Always like that. It goes, well beyond environments. Jerry comprehensive it has probably fifteen or twenty two points on there. But the point is that you raised in Canada, we need to censor these conversations on digital so to pretend like this indigenous folks have been telling us this for generations that we've been heading in this direction. They are the stewarts of the land their leadership is vital. Right. And so when you see it started with I don't know, more, you know, we need to take their leadership, we need to stand behind them. You know, and we do need to take to the streets in Hamilton. We've done that we've shut down streets of, you know, being led by indigenous folks, and I think, like any conversation around a green new deal needs to be rooted in the legacy that you rooted this conversation. And Vicki that's hot take everybody listing out there that the land use question is the sustainable urban development question of lifetime. A human's Diddy cause climate change quote vote is the original OG, fake news content that and you'll drown after swimming, you won't and also that canneries isn't a talented, actor fake news. And in twenty nine thousand nine this election, fake news, misinformation, propaganda, satire, and more are just gonna be all over the place and it's not going to be like from oil companies, and, like people on Facebook, though, like don't rule them out. We're gonna find out more about it with Jane Litvinenko, Jane Lebanon co is a disinflation reporter with BuzzFeed news keeps an eagle eye on the lying misinformation and manipulated. Means that the internet comes up with. Okay. Janey. Are we going to get into all right? So I have four questions for you and Ishmael. And I have one question for the audience. So be ready? I'm very sorry for how to press you're going to walk away from the show today. But good luck, okay. Before we get started. I do want to find out how little I know but I want someone else to suffer with me. Ishmail is former safe-space co host is now digital editor at democracy. Now. This milk. You describe to the audience how much you miss me specifically. Take your time. While I'll say, I hear a lot less slander of counter Reeves now that you're not in my Orbis, you hear a lot less lender, generally now that I'm not around yelled at less. Yeah, I could call you. All right. Jane, we are ready. All right. So question one. This one's about noted a terrible TV show. Game of thrones after seeing the vast amount of displeasure over the game of thrones finale. Terrible dogfather kit. Harrington told haters to quote go fuck themselves is that real or fake? You're saying kit, Harrington told people that go fuck themselves. Like, does he know that word? And how to train your dragon like children. The children's actor I never watched game. Doesn't pet his dog. Okay. I think this is I think this is fake fake as well. All right. You're right. It is fake, but he does know that word. So it's a real quote, that was taken out of context during eighteen April interview with Esquire magazine, you guys me to read you the full quote. Yes. All right. Just just to prove that could Harrington does indeed know. The word fuck. He said, I think no matter what anyone thinks about this season, and I don't mean to sound mean about critics here, but whatever critics spend half an hour writing about this season and make their negative judgement on it in my head. They can go fuck themselves. That's a great quote, and how I feel generally. That kit Harrington still hung up on like bloggers. I can't believe I'm on the most popular show ever. But there's bloggers. All right question to we talked a little bit about the insane prices in Toronto, including the price of rent. It's too damn high. So here's question to a Silicon Valley landlord rents studio apartment to two cats for fifteen hundred dollars. Reeler. Sorry, what city Silicon Valley. That's real. That's real. Why do you say it's real? It's Silicon Valley. It's probably an apt attached to this. Okay. You look like you're happy. An existential crisis. I don't like it. Conceptually. So I'm like having trouble like my brain won't take this information. Okay. I also think it's real. Okay. You're correct. Hey okay to for two it's real. So it's a studio apartment, and it was rented by forty three year old dad named Troy good. Not that good. Because our named Tina Louise and he bought them for his daughter, who went off to college and can bring them to the dorm. And he has a dog so naturally his solution was to rent an apartment for the cats, these people late. Yeah. They also. Do you have to ask? Surprised ishmael? The cats have apple television. I don't have television. All right. Okay. All right question. Three it's really an aspirational won. A bright gutting -gree after a guest filled ten Tupperware containers with food from the wedding. Ten containers. I hope that's real. Why do you hope? Like the chutzpah. On your way out. You're like I have some Tupperware. I'm so African that. It's like why wouldn't you take it? Like, what are they doing with that after? I've never left a wedding without like everything. The flowers like any spare linens just. Okay. No. Okay. I think because I like it too much. The story has to be fake. I'm going to hope that. It's real. All right. Ishmael is correct. It's real. And yes, she did also take to centerpieces. God bless her. Love her. Also my aunt. Unclear. All right. This one is about climate change. We've talked a little bit about it today. Patrick more, cofounder of Greenpeace said the whole climate crisis is not only fake news. It's fake science. There's no climate crisis, those weather and climate all around the world. And in fact, carbon dioxide is the main building block of all life. Patrick more, cofounder of Greenpeace, Reeler fake. Sounds like a Maxine bearing that quote, really? I know this one. It's complicated. Isn't it? It's always complicated. Okay. All right. I think it's fake. Okay. Which part, I think the quota's real person Israel, I believe they're not a founder Greenpeace that they're like a sideshow to it. I'm not dumb people there. My sponsors. That's that's where I'm coming from a very loyally answer. But yeah, I'm going to say it's probably fake in some way. You're correct. Yes, he is not a founder of Greenpeace. He is very much on the anti climate change screed, and that quote, was tweeted by the president of the United States of America are cheese. Never heard of the men. Let's. Thank you so much. Jane. Thank you for revealing awful. All right. Well, now it is time for takeaways. This is the part of the show, where we share our boldest bad opinions. Our rants are -dorsements or whatever else it is. We need to get our chests to do that. We are going to need some opinionated people. Please welcome to the stage. Sarah Haggi an anti Donahue. And an welcome to the show inky for having us. This is very exciting. Matches real cute. We did. I'm her. We didn't. Oh. I'm ashamed already wonderful. All right. Ladies take take a breather Ishmail. Why don't you get started? Okay. So my take away for the week is, I've been having some conversations that people lately about prison abolition. Thank you. End e politician, he's required to clap. He walked by a conversation and someone like me saying, prison, abolition. He's like, yeah. We can do this. So most of the time I'm not talking Indy people. Sometimes you get some quizzical looks. So I think maybe to sell people I think like like a compromises if we do away with prison sentences for most like drug offenses or crimes of poverty. It cetera. I'm willing to up the criminal punishment for other stuff like social crimes. You know. You know, like I think, if you don't rinse your recycling that should be five years. We supposed to do that. Twenty but if you don't. Okay, if you don't stand on the right side of the escalator that's immediate. You know, there's a whole bunch of these. If you say goodbye on a party, but you're still there fifteen minutes later. Just call the cops right there. Or if you if you say, nice haircut, but I've had the haircut for more than a week. I just think that's jail time. So you're like, you know, small time drug, the some of the stuff people get pulled over and arrested for all of that. Get get rid of that. But now introduce absolutely more chaos into the criminal Justice system. What is the greater crime rate about it? You know did it go to regular jail? Like a social jail. I'm kind of imagining like vice squad. We haven't Saudi Arabia, but it's like prim British men who are just like enforcing manners. It'd be a little more like fun freewheeling. But like little chaotic like McDonald's play place, where nothing quite works. Get thrown into a ball pit. And there's like six balls nearly fund. I just think, you know, most people who will never deal with the criminal Justice system, but who are like route two servers now you get to know what it's like you go to jail. That's, that's my that's two of my five step plan to get prison. Evolution denton. I it sounds more like step to five step plan for empire. All right. And why don't you let us know what your takeaways this week? I mean, one of the most controversial things I think I can say in a world full of, like good, boy culture, is I really like cats and I don't care about eighty five percent of dogs, and I am seeing this out here it is spring. They're walking dogs dogs are going to the bathroom. I have to look at it in my head. I'm like, I'm going to get sick somehow because this seems kind of germy like I don't have a dog. I have a cat. Do I have to let why they're all not all of them are heroes? Like a lot of some dogs are not like I'm a lot aren't that cute. Some are not like summer in my elevator. The elevator like I don't he in the elevator. Why is your dog allowed to do this? And then everyone's like, oh, but he's cute. But he's not like he's really not like the corgis are cute, and then the tiny ones where if I look at the my mic like those are cute. But like it's like we are in full, I'm at a part. I mean for some reason, I don't know why would be at a part. But like, if for some reason, I air in the outdoors dogs are frog. Everyone's like the dogs okay, like we get it. All right. That's fine. You know what if you could team, a small horse or rabbit, I'll give shit? I don't care about your dogs. I don't secret account for your dogs. What do you do when someone talks about their dog too? I say, I have a cat. And then they know immediately that I'm an asshole so lake right off the bat. Unless your dog is like a cat. Like I don't want the first of a dog like where they're just like what have some standards like get a clue? I don't like. I don't know. You don't you don't wanna be my friend, Vicky has a dog. Absolutely. Actually got her dog, and I was like Osas for column. Writing dog ownership or something just like my dog. But I will say that I I'm the opposite. I don't love cats. Whatever I don't like I like I like the dogs like everybody because I need, like tippy validated improved all the time. I have a podcast like I need this. Don't you want to earn it like cats are like I've decided to like you. I won't like you tomorrow, but today and I'm like wine. But like a dog just like, hey, there, would you like to like sit with me like no? No. You I have to be like, are you serious? I don't have children, and I wish for none bless you. All parents of the world, but at dawn is just like a kid that doesn't grow up. I'd rather have a baby. Babies girl, and you don't take care of them anymore. Dogs are babies forever, and they don't wear diapers. They're just shitting places. All my God. A child in your house who can't talk to you who wouldn't love that. It doesn't ask me anything it looks at me and it goes. Yeah. You're great. One hundred percent of the time all day every day. It's fantastic. It's like a mirror that tells me, I'm amazing. Okay. So, and that is a wild wild takes there. What do you have res-? My take is also animal related. Cam really nervous right now you can get through this. This is a big one. So and I talked about this a lot all the time, actually we talk about this. We're very very close. And we tech Salat and this is like one of the top things we text about. And it's how much we hate kangaroo, disgusting. Okay, I'm gonna backtrack a bit. Like I don't. All I'm gonna explain this properly. I have like a weird fascination with, like, buff animals. I thought it relates. There's so much on the internet. And every once in a while, like like a whale at the six pack will go viral. For me. It's like I feel like hang, who's are the ultimate buff humanise animal, and we act like it's normal, but they exist and it's not normal. There's nothing normal about kangaroos. There's this one that was very viral. His name was Rory, which is what is that name? And there's a there's a picture of him. And he's crushing a can't like a giant like a bucket ten bucket, and it's so scary. So many videos of humans fighting kangaroos like they're humans. And it's just it's disgusting. Also found out there. Pouches are filled with mucus. I told you that I told you that which is so disgusting, it is disgusting. And there's a reason why certain things only in Australia. I'm not going to elaborate on that. I just I hate kangaroos there's nothing cute about them. They make me sick. They actually they make me sick. Can I ask something very quickly? And that is crucial to this argument every kangaroo, and we have talked about the they look like they would be like wearing jeans tying Buca jeans. They look like the kind of guy doing dishes, and you're almost done. And he goes you done. You need help with that. Yeah, like whenever you're almost finished doing a task and it's like almost complete. And he's like let me get that for you put his his fuck in kangaroo arms around your waist, and like Naslund near neck and be like you done with babe, Saint base gusting kangaroos are disgusting creatures. We'll text each other for hours, just images of them, and then the captions of what we think they would say, like can I can I go to buy to that? Like, I'm pretty sure I don't know if I conjured this image in my mind is, if it exists, but there's a kangaroo, they're wearing jeans. Wrong. It's just like I don't I can't believe I'm still talking about this. I feel like I could talk about I wish we could talk about this until, like all everyone. Here was begging to leave, and we're like, no we're not done like that. I that's how long I I, I don't know. Like I just don't think they deserve their place in pop culture. This shouldn't be movies about kangaroos. Absolutely not shouldn't be exactly one movie about king. As far as sir. Jack was a hit. You don't. I hope there's a kangaroo in here right now. And he's like do I leave like what do I do. And he's got his dog with him Instagram. Go for it Joe. We there could be a kangaroo in amongst us right now. We wouldn't know because they are so humanness, which one are you stand up, right? The fuck now. I like their buff. Isn't that? Are you kidding me? That's not normal. Oy. Shouldn't look. No. They should not. I mean he listened to shop like a nipple ring that's human s key is he caned? Okay. Definitely watched videos of like little baby kangaroos, or like Tina plight in each one's all I know. But it's like there are certain bars. I will never go to but go watching these kangaroos boxing, each other is like going to those terrible bars. It's like a great experience. Yeah. They had the chance also I'm never going to Austria. There's this, this is what changed. This is what like evoked this, and I think I should just explain to the kangaroo. Steal your buddy. I can't my boyfriend note this, there's this video of someone's home, and they go to a window and you just see a kangaroo, you know, the one I know and it's standing there at the window with claw just on the window like that. And you're like, what are you going to do? Like it's just like it's like they're planning something, and we're here, thinking they're cute animals, but they're non. We don't think they're cute. We're ready for them anyway. So that's it. Yeah. And eighty five percent of dogs. About dogs, sir. Why do people expect us to know what dog breeds are right? We'll come up to me or talk about their dogs like I'm supposed to know what their breeds are your Lassie, your airbud, your corgi other than that. Like what is the point where you're just small? And I'm just like you. Vicky has a Santa's little ho-. We're gonna move on from these people. You ask for this. And now we're here. So excited. I know. Well, we all experience regret at some point. I'm going to skip ahead and. I don't know if this is a good I actually take good idea or not. I got to see Michelle Obama when she was here gasp, right? Great great. And it was like a really cool president that a friend passed onto me because boss gave it to her, and we were both like, yeah, we're gonna lock in remove see Michelle Obama. We're gonna be inspired and relieve. And we're both gonna like chill up to our jobs on time. Yes. Like, if we get one thing out of that it's going to just be like Michelle will lead the way for careers and I enjoyed it. And my take is really I enjoyed it in the same way that I enjoy, watching HGTV and to me, that's what she's kind of political quivalent of now. I was really bummed out by that mostly because very top of the show. They have a whole bunch of people on stage before. Michelle comes out and soaring beautiful. Majestic music happening, and they turn on the lights, and there's a lady whose name, I totally apologize for forgetting who's, like I am the first black female editor of El Canada. And in fact, the only black editor across the whole magazine. You're like visit. And then the lights go up, and it's like Dan Levy and your he's like, I'm Dan Levy an I the founder a creator of shits creek, and you're like I looked like that show. That's quite nice. And then another light goes up, and it's clear more. No. And she's talking about how like now I may teen I got to write a book about refugees knows like okay more. No noted, but then the next light goes up, and I'll never remember their names. Don't plan to it's one of the property brothers. I'm one half of the property brothers. And Michelle Obama has taught me and my brain went what are you talking about? Okay fair enough. Like you gotta give a little bit of something who everybody but the whole time I was like this is gun in a weird direction, very quickly. And then the next person is the other property. Would it be get out of one that we couldn't didn't need it the other for? And then I as she kept talking, I was like this is like HDTV. This is like I could put this on mute and still be like, yeah, I like that. Alex good more pictures of that, that seems awesome. And that's how I experienced HDTV. I've never put the volume on that TV channel. And I'm so bummed out that, that's Michelle Obama has become to me, and it's not it's only for me if you really like her. Please don't talk to me or at me about it. Or Email me or say anything to me really? I'm so bummed out that I was so excited when she was like I'm gonna write this book. I'm going to go to or I'm going to become a documentarian like Michelle is gonna lead the way I shall join her army. We shall fight, whatever we're fighting Michelle will teach us. And then she was just like it's Milady being ladies kind of interesting in hard. And I was like mute. Just gonna appreciate that for what it is. And so my take really Michelle Obama is the political quivalent of. H. E. T V. I'm not proud of it. I just feel that way. It's your opinion. You're loud. All right. Well, I'm glad we settled that. Okay. Well just wrap things up. Then. All right. Well, that's it for this show this week and tonight and in fact for this season. Thank you all so so much for coming. Thank you so much to our guests. Diane Saxe Matthew green Fatima Siad, Jane, Lebanon goes there Hagi and anti Donahue. And of course. Ishmael darrow. Everyone is on Twitter so be sure to follow their work. You can follow the show on Twitter at it's a safe space on Twitter at the Chamma. Please be sure to subscribe to the show. Leave us a review especially for tonight. We wanna hear so much more from you a massive. Thank you to the hot docs, team for being so, so good to us. And to all of you for coming until next season stay safe.

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