Justin Gimelstob Aftermath; Clay Headlines So Far Kontas Improvement, Federers Return; Challenging Janko Tipsarevics Equal Prize Money Views


Hi, I'm John McEnroe's board. This is Martina Navratilova. I'm massive Lander. I'm Sandra rinca am Lleyton Hewitt. I'm Andy Murray. And you're listening to the tennis podcast. Join Catherine which I myself David law down in a pub basement a proper pub where I'm on my second beer. This could all go wrong. Folks. Katherine tells me this is a pub that is used for dungeons and dragons conferences. I mean, the official word for grouping of dungeons and dragons participants is. Since nine judgment tool. I mean, they like having a whale of time. We sat in the seats of people that gloried in the basement of this pope, I believe every cheese day. So they could descend on us any moment. Now. Dungeons and dragons, okay? The thing. Okay. It's I mean, it's beautiful club. It's a bit spitting sawdust. But you know, we're here we've got our biz Catherine looks offended by that description. We're his Wisconsin's local and we're here to talk about tennis folks, Catherine has got the tennis from Madrid on her phone live as we speak. We'll try not to give you to many live updates of things you are in other result for but we've got loads of that story about we've got all the the results from Barcelona last week Estoril not Boston last week Bustan two weeks ago, we had that Estoril last week Munich Rabat as well. And then Madrid this week proc sandwich on all in the build up to the French Open, of course, which is a few weeks away. We also want to cover off Yanko tips is interview that we haven't had chance to talk to Katherine about. We'll do that a little bit later. And first of all we're going to talk about the loose ends rarely the the aftermath of last week's podcast to do Justin Gimelstob, which I think we made our thoughts pretty clear about but a lot of happened since then because two days later. Just in Gimmel stood. Joe Justin Gimelstob did indeed stand down from his position on the board after much much anger from from us and encouragement for him to to not be in that position anymore, and well, many more people as well felt the same. And indeed he put out a long long statement in the end saying he was resigning from his position later on in that evening. He he was also he also stood down from his position at tennis channel led to believe that he would probably been pushed from both positions. How do you not opted to stand out? But ultimately the right decision. I would say a long long time ever Jew. But got there in the end he apparently had flown to Madrid. Because he said I wanted to look Novak Djokovic in the eye who's the head of the council and the two most important things. I wanted to say, we're I thank you and second to apologize. Chris Clarry article in the New York Times. We now have a situation where his position on the board is going to be elected and fifteen names have currently put themselves forward to be on the limited. We list for the play accounts for the player board and will be chosen and those people putting themselves forward are people like Brad Gilbert, and Tim mail to we mentioned sweek Mark Knowles will Evans who was for longtime head of services, certainly when I joined the P back twenty years ago, and Danny Valvert do is another one who's the coach Griego Dimitrova formerly part of team Murray. Elsewhere. He held sway. I mean, you can you can put them together as we know that he's having a tough old time with Greg because Greg does not many many matches. Yeah. We're gonna talk about Grigor Dimitrov over just in the most. Oh, seven six seven six yesterday. So that's the end of that jet Taylor Ritz. Yeah. Who's who's lost today to Novak Djokovic? But the aftermath is is interesting as well because Stanford Rinker then wrote a very long letter to the times newspaper in which he was incredibly critical of the state of governance within the men's game, the board side of things and really feels as though the players were put in an impossible position that they shouldn't have been in having Justin Gimelstob imposition after all that had gone before. Clearly, very disappointed that he wasn't removed from position when important decisions will be made particularly back, Chris commode. Most recently him not having his contract renewed at the end of the year subsequent to that. Roger Federer Novak Djokovic and today ref on the Dallas all being tuned into their press conferences federa- was asked about the situation. And he said, I think it's definitely the right move by just into step down. He needs to go back and figure things out. There's no doubt about that. The tornados to keep moving forward in these challenging times and important times right now, I'm not going to come. And he was asked. Why have you not come out and spoken before being asked today in Madrid? And it was put to him that Stanford Rinker had done that obviously on social media. And then in his letter to the times and federa said, I'm not going to come out on social media. And all of a sudden comments on stuff. And I was not an have not been impressed conferences, if I would have been event, you could have asked me, but I was at home. No. Been knocked on my door. Then I would have given my comment. So next time on breaks. Let's all get down. Rogers house invitation to the press to get run around his house does setting door stopping is alive. And well reminds me of a story Nigel Clark journalist who who still on the tennis circuit occasionally these days and was one of the regulars back in the macro years. They used to just wait with their ears pressed against the hotel doors of John McEnroe to see what they could here. So they managed to get up to the floor that he was staying. Those days, you know, video student treason, isn't it? So I'm not suggesting everybody should do that throw federal. However, he has basically said if you want to know what I think you'd better come in me. So come around my house. Novak djokovic. Then yesterday said it was the right decision on just inside. It's unfortunate because he's probably being the biggest asset plas- have had. He needs to go back and deal with that case find the right stead of mind before he tries to come back Djokovic then set on Chris commode. I think he has the right to be a candidate officially for another mandate. I don't know if he wants to do that or not. But why not we need as many quality candidates as possible? It will be an important process for us. And then today, I haven't got it down in front of me. But ref on the Dow was asked about the situation he was criticised in some quarters for not giving his opinion. We mentioned that last year last week rather on the show that he didn't want to tell the media he and he reiterated today. Look, I have my thoughts that the same as they were before. I wanted to say to them them to the players rather than in the media, which is an interesting one, isn't it because staggering? Done the absolute complete opposite. He has come out. And he has let everybody know exactly what he thinks. And he's actually being critical of those that haven't said anything he said that silence is complicity which is a damning thing to say. It's very very strong for a fellow player and a friend in federal case to say. I mean, look, you know, these guys who haven't said anything, so he's he's kind of pointing the finger at them among others. Yeah. I believe stunned the Rinker is right in the second stance. Saunas complicity, it's perhaps understandable complicity. These guys have a lot of skin in the game. He's an expression that I know. I'm Briggs hates with everybody in his body. They've got a lot to lease. They got a lot at stake. I, but I I I am I was moved by bring his letter aknowledging. So much of the bigger picture stuff about what this episode is indicative of in tennis. I think that's what we need to be looking at now seeing seizing opportunity for for a clean slate and not just. Viewing this as a temporary hiatus by just in KOMO show. Bitches Jovic language seemed to suggest I mean, he referenced a comeback from gimme shop too. The the upper levels of management of tennis sort of in a very part of the course, kind of it's a given way. Now, look, I am a huge believer rehabilitation. I think there were a. Fraction of a fraction of a fraction of percent of offenders and bad people in the world that can't be rehabilitated in the right circumstances. And were they circumstances to to arise for Justin Gimelstob? I wouldn't just slam the door in his face personally. But However, I see none of them at the moment. I see seven hundred and forty five words his statement, not one of the Missouri. He apologized to Novak Djokovic which I down from the players council. But he hasn't apologize. He hasn't expressed any kind of apology for what he's done for the culture that he's created for for perennial. His actions relating to that crime. I see only equivocation from him. Oh here in new Quba -cation for him from him in relation to that to that crime. So. An oval there needs to be an incredible sea change in the position of Justin Gimelstob for for tennis to consider welcoming him back and for the joke, which talk about it in that way. If given was alarming to me. Federa? I mean, I don't know what I was expecting from federal and the dollar wasn't expecting anything from a dollar after what we had last week of him. Just kind of shutting it down from federa is disappointing is disappointing. I think what riles me the most is when federal plays Dom about the power and influence that he has in this bore. I believe that federal adults gather have more power than any other entity all anything combined in that that into that Simon flew over to Chicago to do with federal last year at the labor Cup talking about various different things. In tennis. I think it was specifically relation to their form of if Davis Cup. But and federal said kind of I'm going to chat with doll. And we'll see where we place our chips. We'll see. You know, what we want to move to support? And there was really knowledgeable in there. The power that they have is unit. There was this sort of feeling I had this mental image of if federal in Adel riding in on the, you know, horses like Gandalf on shadow, FOX. They have an ex-. I mean individually they will extrordinary amount of power. But together, I believe, and I believe they are aware particularly federal that they have the power to affect immense change. In the culture. This bothered me that federal kind of play dumb about that. Do you not think it is fair enough for those plans to say, well, look I wanna do my talking face to face. I don't want to do it through the. Through the media. I don't want to tell you. I'd rather tell the people that can actually affect change directly rather than having a conversation through the media. Maybe. But did I neve- what he said suggests that? Yeah. Maybe I'll tell you. What I maybe. But how powerful was stuns statement and letter it was incredibly powerful. I think there are those that might also say, well, okay, you've been very loud and vocal about it. Go now campaign for the twenty twenty he might council and try and actually do something about it yourself, and then you'll be in the fire nine and he will night does this have pointed out as well that he he was on the player council. Six five six years ago, and Justin Gimelstob was imposition then too. So where does he stunned that I would answer that? Well, just in Galveston hadn't beaten somebody up at that point. That's that's one big significant difference. Ultimately, I I'm really happy that he stood up and said what he thinks because I think this is a conversation that needs to be had more generally. So that standards just have to get raised. You can't do things behind closed doors. I also think this particular case needed to be assessed for what it is. And that is unacceptable behavior, absolutely unacceptable. And I think that the the sadness for me is that whilst I understand why federa Jackovitch Dow wouldn't necessarily wanna go into stop putting people away in in public. None of them made a stand a proper stand in what they said to say this is not on. We cannot have somebody in power in this game who's behaving like that. We can't. It's it wasn't said Vasic possible said issues. Statement. And I think it's I think it's unfortunate that they didn't see fit to just make that very strong point that you cannot don't care how much you might do for for raising money for players you. We don't want to be represented by people who do things. T? Right. So that's where we are. That's where we all. Would that situation? What one other thing that no doubt did says well today was that he'd like to see some somebody Spanish speaker on the board who could more represent a lotta plans who Cotonou sunny might thoughts known as well. Maybe not America. It's it's the Americas. That board position say not all those than have made then in public the anyone that's public. This is finished bigger. I believe is done Verde, and they could be others and actually lifting. I think he would be a really interesting choice somebody that I've got a lot of time for that valve ado, and yeah, I could definitely see him being being affective in a different way. It's like I talked about the different types of leader last week. But we'll see we'll see what happens. She talked about some tennis still glass Intel in this pub in which dungeons and dragons get played and talked about I'll find out what that is later. So first of all fashioned fun. I think. Invokes compete is from that. It's well, we're on a road in a little pub, and it's lovely and I'm on my second bears. I'm struggling to read the script, and it'll here, but I can see the words Joe concert. Who's had a good run? She reached her first claycourt final in Rabat last week. And she very nearly one it she ended up facing Maria Sakari who who won her. I think it was her first title wasn't. It was the first title. And it was the first time ever that to Greek players have won tournaments in the same weeks. Hikari who's a heck of a player and seems like a really nice person to and Stephanus sit surpass winning Esterel, basically the same time. And do you know what it made me think it made me think? Oh, wouldn't it be great? If there were combined men's and women's tournament at which both of these t- could play together as a team could enjoy that. Because they've known one another since they were six years old this glorious relationship, and I thought oh, yeah, they played to get. Hopman cup. That was really good wasn't it. And then I go side 'cause that's being done away with Stefanos sits may not be able to play the because there's no other ranked Greek player that they plan to run the hot and Cup houseware in the Canada fits who knows. Big gaps in the calendar. Waiting to be filled. Yeah. So how'd you look at this though? The fact that Konta led six two four one in the final and Sakari ended up winning. That is a question when I watched much with some help this morning as well in Madrid her second round match. She did have an enormous amount of credit concert by the way for flying to write from bat to Madrid. And I think less than twenty four hours later in berry. Okay. The both labor extremely different conditions. Yeah. She Riskin straight-set. So I'm very impressed with the putting in professional performance against risk. Comes out couple of days later this morning to place, a main Halla, and the first you games, an absolute joy, the freedom with which she was we could see how lease her shoulders were and lease isn't usually a word in a surly descript to you associate with Joe condescending of late, you know, she can be a bundle of Zion. And and then she got into a winning position. I think she was four zero up in the first set, and she still she didn't capitulate or anything. She still continued to play play. Well, but you could see her turns up she just the freedom disappeared once she got into that winning position when she had something to lose. The last couple years, but she's fought through it and number of times in the last couple of weeks the Fed Cup and now in Rabat and oversee first-round here. But I mean Klay is a bit of a foreign surface for her. She's never come close to results like the she had last week in the past even when she was at a very best. So you would you would take from that that there's a lot of reason to be positive for. I've rule positives. Just specifically owes me about her losing from a commanding winning position. I think that that is a concern. But overall big positive, she certainly so much more comfortable meeting on clay her good concern car. Oh, wait. She's real she's got coathangers shoulders. Lift that trophy was amazing. It's like an exercise in muscle flexing. How good can raise Sakari bay. I felt like I need to ask somebody that knows more about technique than I. She seems to have it all to me. Maybe she doesn't have the sort of ease of stroke production that sort of really natural timing that some have. But that's not a prerequisite for getting. Ato near the top. In time for next week. We're going to text few people know Steph that tennis, and then we're gonna we're gonna let right Marisa cars potential right Munich was Munich was won by Christian Garin of chili emergency techs going round or tennis podcast reports at about. The need to learn gently a lot more about Christian Garin Muslim started by you. Very funny. Right. Matt do some research who who is this guy is this blame and he was the star twenty nine hundred. He had won only one eighty p main draw victory that was in twenty thirteen six years ago. He was running tab side, the two hundred top two hundred twelve months ago, he loves Klay all eighteen of his match wins. This season of been on clay, listen to these people at Christine Garin is beaten Alexander's Dennis Chiappa, valve, Phoenix, origin. Elliot's same Jeremy shoddy Diego Schwartzman public Cuevas. Who incidentally, did you see the trick shots? Did you see the shots? This guy came up with facial specialist in the second Marco checking outta and how may Muna he's been all of them on clay this year won the twenty thirteen run guys boys title beatings. Verve. And I mean, he baits very of last week who's who's who need got him in the. End and had much points, but Garin still managed to win. I mean, I just I think it's he's an he's a fascinating story proper claycourter properly. Caught a bit is not just somebody this picking off those that are not come no relatively comfortable on clay, like Chiappa valves. He's beating market checking out and Sasha's vary and a couple of other public Cuevas. I mean, you know, he's beating hardened clay quotas at their own game. Those are rights of passage tight victory. These guys aren't they? So yeah, I I mean, I've been on somewhat of a crush Christian Garin coups. But yeah, maybe I need to go on more of one world unto him anyway for winning in Munich, and that was his second clay-court title of the year beat Mattia Bertini in the final and Bertini was gone for about two titles in Budapest. So, you know, it's it's mightily impressive what he's done. Very incidently has also been speaking head of Madrid everything is coming together. Now, he says everything is starting to be more quiet, and I can now one hundred percent folks, summing tennis player and not a manager a lawyer and five different other things that takes time away which is kind of what we were lewd into last week. He did seem as he got too much going on in his world really since about Cincinnati beat winning that title in Estoril which on its own merits. I think just it's another one. Of those steps you have to take along the way to winning big and being top ten play. When you're in those terms. I remember feeling this when he was in that next-gen finals last year, he was the favorite to win it. I felt like he needed to go win it, and he did win it and here he's inustrial. He's the top seed he needs to win Terrell. He's gonna win it. I love the fact that he just keeps some backing up the big win against federal in in Australia, and he just comes out. Okay. He's got a couple of ropy weeks here now, but he's kept on grinding. And he's one of them another one. Yeah. I think you made the point very well. And I love to celebrations vote was really big for him. I think his whole family in the crowd. And he's not thinking he he's not getting teabag beats is he thinking this is little t fifty that. I'm not going to be playing next year. It really meant a lot to winning that title. And yeah, you should Egypt shows a lot of respect for the sport. Which is very welcome. Indeed, actually, even one or two people saying, oh, you know, his agent got into right? This post on Twitter with all of his thanks to everybody and everybody, but. I don't think he did. I think that was Stephanus sits the best thinking I want to thank everybody. For what I do for me. I mean, he's agent is managed other players in the past haven't done things like that. That's right. That's right, that smile a lot more phone assists person. It does Patricio pay to me. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was significant because it has been a bit tough REM since that breakthrough the Australian Piquet reach the funding Dubai, but. Then he had that tough swing in India MOS Miami. And he said like play too much Tennyson. We tools in Melbourne way. With Matt about how concerned we were about his shed Jill. And he said, I think it was awfully lost pretty early. Miami said I just need a break from tennis, which is a long to hear from a twenty year old twenty. But yeah, he's had hopefully the break you needs. And and. Yeah. He's an exciting prospect. I don't feel like I've seen enough in my life. I've Pablo Cuevas based on the clips that I saw in that final against sit surpass where he lines a smash and ends up hitting through the legs half-volley drunk shot instead for cleaner. I'm sure he was used to be this much of a trick. I think I think that loan he hit what most people I I know in Tennessee into think is the best shot ever image a couple years ago. It wasn't on the main cool trying to remember he was against it back to the net. Was it? It was a it was a I mean, I don't have to describe. It was a he. Yeah. He had his back to the shortly sort of played it behind him. I mean, it was also really just putting I mean, I'm sure it's the first thing that comes up when you put Cuevas into into each, but. Cuevas stricture Cuevas Madrid, whatever it is mind blowing it feels like ever since that moment. He's gone. This is my US p guys. I mean, great tennis player, but he fell into that Malet of sort of really solid. Undistinguished in the best. I mean, the best possible way, you know, solid. Clay, call guys do their thing on clay every year. And he's found a way to sort of put his head above the parapet. I've got a thing. When you've got somebody who hits the shot like that. I mean, I I've never even seen that show before I've never seen a a smash fake tanning into half-volley through the legs dropshot half. I mean that that doesn't exist. Fire. I've never even seen an so Brahma hitting that one. I've never seen Nick curious addition for the champions too. I mean, I just watched that I watched it over and over every time, it's burst out laughing. What are you doing? He can't he's David. I'm I'm playing for the benefit the tape in playing David the it was against various. Describe it. It's dropshot from his valve incomes Cuevas. Lob lifted by vice verve behind the back passing winner from Pablo Cuevas with a little index finger in the air, and that is absurd. Wow. It's the state's celebration. That makes is I mean. I mean, you can't hit that shot. There's been two hundred and fifty seven thousand views and these being lobbed he's rushing backwards. He said a panels the underhand behind his back, and he absolutely middle's for a clean winner. Just an inch over the net. Let's keep playing let the rest of the podcast. The fact is though that he just brings a smile to your face watching Disney, he is mystical and. I love I loved it. I loved it. And but in the end, it's best one straight-sets. That's the other good good thing from his perspective. He didn't get drawn into that. And end up losing which you could do he ended up winning the match incident on the subject of trek shots. Have you have you seen? The curious latest is a is an underhand fake and underarm serve fake. And then a normal serve. This against St. because I didn't like that performance yard in Washington. Watch that clip. I thought he was a bit of disrespectful to strafe but strip one right? Yes. True for choose. Why you come undone? You lose to somebody reminded me of it was Madrid. I think three years ago when curious gave me that Gedo many spat out the words Gita, Pella rotten. This side of curiouser date like the hairs, but still probably be rooting for status of an Australian that you are absolutely unequivocal about how good is Bharti. Rod body. Ten wins in a row. What a plan she's becoming. Yeah. I watched much last night again. I mean, I had a brief nap in the middle. But by and large I wash. Against Daniel Conan's. She described as one of the way this much as she'd ever played. And we always six one one six six one is busy and school. I'm back that up, but. I I mean, I didn't think of her as Klay cool, but that's slice that that backhands lie. She has really penetrates on the clay in a way that wasn't quite expecting a movement. So good now. Predicting should win the French Open. But I think I underestimated her bit on clay. She's just fantastic to watch. I think she could. I think she could she's gonna win a slam this year all too. Yeah. Three left which one said, that's my thing. I've said it asked party slam winter this year. Right now. How would that be tennis? Awesome. She's just so likable, right Sloan. Stevens is being touched by fend. Grenville who I think is is an excellent appointment. So I mean, I kinda got right. And did not ready because I said I saw but it's only about two months late interchangeable women. Well, no. But I said he was going to get big job is what I meant. I think he would take a non big jobs and Grenville took that really talented Chinese player who can't remember the name of the guy who the young junior champion remembers nine now. Yeah. But but but he didn't stay with him Quincy price. You let me get away with that little segue into one player statement being the player coach getting completely wrong. I've gently east yourself up. Best way to do it. Preferred it when you were just give me a good ten enough. Right. Cosmo ver. He's not here. Right. Prevention? Why are we why she I mean, let's thing. Look, here's the thing. Right, grandma. At does the agenda somehow coast movers name is is all night with an exclamation, Mark. I mean, she's got no right to be on restrain themselves by putting on page two showing. They I mean what she done. She illegal guest, Victoria, Cosmo's for this match favorite player who he predicted would win the Australian Open and lost to. Brutal to reach the quarter-finals bear in mine. I didn't know what she let light to last night. But everybody. Everybody's sending these coming out the woodwork. One victory ever call us whereas Navarro when everyone's known about his movie for the last eighteen months apparent. So she genuinely has been backing her for no apparent reason for the past four months. But actually, she is starting to do stuff and people were comparing it to really good plaza. So according to suddenly getting it's getting to right-handed, Patrick and bitter and shoes on our vantage with like. Muscles and stuff happening. So yeah. Keep an Victoria because my because we are we can't get away. And what else does he got on his list here and the Dow's go to stomach Burkey plays? You only seem next who is who beat her Champa valve. We were having a frequent text incomes Asians about that that it was feverish wasn't chats about push your visit Chiappa follow big ramp. Whether whether OSHA allier seem is jockey rich. Like, I said he was junk of which like you said he was more explicit than Jackovitch, and you said jock riches explosive, and I took issue with I think, which is brilliant, but not in an explosive way. I think Hoosier does have he's hardened in a way that Chiappa valve isn't he's able to be consistent. And he makes a better decision maker already. Then Chiappa valve you will say has that explosiveness, which I find just an extraordinary prospect Chiappa valve, I'm still on the shell of chain. I still want him to succeed. I am worried that the decision making chip is missing. And in the history of tennis. That's one of chips. That's hardest. Teach. I'm thinking of David king coaching assignment. I agree. And I hope I hope that is a what happens in be. What makes the difference? I think we need to get him early with that because the reprogramming more baggy build up the heart of the reprogramming is and he needs. It's it's the the shots election in decision making on the core is so deeply widened. The hard drive. I know he's still young and I desperately hope it happens. But I'm just times of wasting or coach you. The second making Ray Johnny cash is snuck in our believe in Egypt. Dennis sold on the train. He's got one phone the platform on the train still joining the train. Okay. You had to us. If you ask me now, he's having a better career. Without question was your team. Fiore's me. Now, we're not sure. All right. We'll come back to that. In about four years when the Groner Roger Federer who is imagine that four years time OGSM he's going to be twenty to tighten is that Roger Vetere who's about forty eight is making his return in Madrid practiced with Dan Evans in Switzerland. I was unavailable. So he went through he was asked about that in his specimens before everyone. Go into the Gimelstob stuff. I think it was pulled Neiman, that's voice identification. That's telling me it's Paul Newman from the independent asked that question. And I hope I mean, I guess in anticipation of sort of gushing stuff about about Dan Evans. Raping and fed. You've just said, oh, he was available. Well, he wanted to. Ticket right. That Roger Federer's said in his New York Times interview with Chris Clarry recently that he is taking a let's see what happens approach, and I must say that. It's gonna be interesting. It was let's see what happens. But it was also there was Trump esque sort of like, oh, sending beautiful happen. It was like it was careful you converse. Good. Is it going to another petition about real into that? Go. You know what I mean? Those is like maybe you don't know what I mean. I'm not making eye contact with the. It was like, let's see what happens could be something. Beautiful could be something if not doesn't matter, but really could be something beautiful. I mean, I think I think he's alleviating. I think he genuinely doesn't feel any pressure. But I think he's also thinking I could sneakily when the French Open. Do think he thinks that I do think he thinks Genoa doesn't matter. I mean, I've won twenty grand slams. What do I need this fall? I wasn't even gonna play clay clay again. But I'm here. So I'm going to go for it. And you lock deal with me. Tightly, and he's you know, he's been watching every single match play up until this point in. Now. He's been watching the dole not quite far in all cylinders. Djokovic the same and her friendship. French open. Why haven't we haven't seen him hit a ball on clay yet? Fan. I'll give me next week. I'll agree to that prediction next week. So young tip savage was a guest here with us on the tennis podcast a few weeks ago. He was good enough. Spend an hour and twenty minutes in my company on the phone. I've never done an interview quite like it. I find it. Absolutely fascinating. Didn't agree with a number of things. He said as as a set at the time, which is fine. You know, I I'm quite happy to hear him out. And then tech stock one person that hasn't had chance to come in and taught is you, Catherine? So what did you think into the? I mean, the he his captivating isn't he he's? I mean, his fluency in a second language, just he. What he was actually saying mind blowing up silly mind-blowing to to hold an audience captive in a second languages mazing. And he's insights into Djokovic found we'll interesting very worthy of been given a platform. That was what you yours is on the tennis screech out. You know, just for the interview what you wanted to know. And I just thought. Exactly as you put in in in your question. I think for like, we know nave joke of it. Tell us what he's like from somebody that that news. So I found that thing. I mean, his talk about his own career and mental health struggles with that captivating. I mean, a lot of what he had to say about his views on various other things in particular, gender inequality within sport, I found objectionable, am I think I just. I'm totally happy with him saying them, plenty of people express vs of that ilk and lawless eloquently the Yankee tips Irish did I just don't want them to sort of sit there on challenged. Not the didn't challenge me. Absolutely did. But. I think I think a lot of them. Stand up to scrutiny really an eye. He seems like an intelligent and thoughtful enough of a guy that he wouldn't mind these fees may challenge not that I mind whether he did not would mind, but you wanna give some examples. So that we know what you're referring to. Well, I mean the. He had two separate justifications for. Four unequal prize money. And when citing each one he said this is what it's about. So any about this point? He both cited the fact that women don't play best of three sets invested five and started talking about women's winters. Don't one eighty meters Wellman's we spent his run one hundred. And gave other examples in marathons, etc. Etc. But then you'll say said, it's not at all about of the nature of the sport. It's entirely about. He said I'm talking about income generation, it's entirely about income generation, which is that same old market forces argument, isn't it? He said. As an extension to that, the the most objectionable and laughable point he made is that we cannot control who and what is generating income in the sports. Now, if Cousy he can you just have to want to. And how. For one. I mean, there is an immense inequality and shed chilling in the sport. I mean, that's I mean, the inequality pervades the sport at every level experience it every day, but it's quite difficult to to win arguments against hardened inequality deniers, unless you got hard data, so shed Jelena's one area that it's very possible to generate hard data now. Monchique Monday Wimbledon second Monday of Wimbledon every year. It's unique in the tennis calendar in that you get all of the fourth round grand slam matches on men's and women's. So I played on one single day. There is no other day like it in the calendar. It's why we'll call it. Magic monday. It's why we is broadcast. David every year, sell it to our viewers in this news as the best tennis calendar. Now, other individuals will have preferences on other days. But that is generally what we accepted Embiid up to be. I've compiled of looked at the stats on shed jailing on the show courts the matches that are receiving the most eyeballs on them the most hype. And as a result, the most newspaper coverage, the next day, etc. Etc. Over the last decade one third of central much is on magic Monday. I've been women's and two-thirds have been men's not once is there been more than one women's much shuttled on center court on magic Monday on court one. It has been thirty eight percent women's to sixty two percent men's and if anyone says, oh, yeah. But that's the last decade. It's been getting better will last year on magic Monday. There was just one women's March on each of the top three show courts at Wimbledon last year. I mean, let's just incontrovertible that's incontrovertible data Wimbledon in defensive that. Because they have been asked about it. The last couple of years, I goes in quite soon Chrissy ever on this couple of years ago when it came up and along with other things prompted Wimbledon to have to give a statement on it, and they basically just shrugged and said market forces. Well, look, even if you accept the market forces argument, which. I find ludicrous. But even if you do it's the context, it's the nature with which that argument is tossed out people don't say a K liquid doing this because these are what market forces to whom we are. We are at the mercy. This is what they dictate. However, we would love it to be different. What can we do to make it not? So because this isn't right people to shrug into that market forces Yankee tips, which just says. I'm not talking about quality. I'm talking my income generation and shrug this. We cannot control who is generating income. It's it's privilege. It is absolutely privileged. This just this is the way things are and I'm not made today to change them. Because it suits me might not realize that that's where it's coming from. But to me that is where it's coming from. It's not right. The markets are sexist, and we do have the power to change that. And we should. And I firmly believe that it'd be better for man. It'd be better for men's tennis Equality's, great for everyone. It's it's not as the the argument that Simon Briggs made on our podcast last week about how adversarial the sport feels like it's become and the load of people that view the sports zero-sum game. And I think that applies to men's verses women this idea that there is a pie and any expert of the pie that the women want to get via recall ity is slow set of the pie that men's has rather than just, hey, how delicious could this guy with a bit of equality flavoring in it, which is how I say. I mean, I suppose the two things from from say. Use women as an example, one is that because it's best to five Bester three on that particular manic Monday day, you get two five-set matches Anna three-set match, which is kind of more fear money. I suppose my argument would be right. We'll have to each then. This is a misstatements never say, hey, we're aware of this. We are at the mercy of market forces. So we have to do it this, right? However, we are going to look about a look at how we can sort this out because it's not right because no will there's no will to sorta our because the market forces argument, just to be clear is the the idea is that more people want to watch for instance, Roger Federer than they do someone else. But I would say that he is very extreme example. And just just I'd look alternately. I do the same view, which is d one to do you want it to be different though? Because if you do actually you can you're part of the problem, if you don't shed Hewlett equally because women's tennis can't be on the same level in terms of appeal to the markets. If it doesn't get the stages often, and isn't a celebrated as much which it isn't. Which it absolutely is. I mean. I'm not I'm not to get into all of it because I'd like to do a special humanity focused on, and you know, I know. There are people that Choon into this focus don't just wanted to head Celtics going off at one about feminism inequality. But I mean, all the stats back up that. Unesco study in twenty eighteen found the only four percent of sports media content worldwide. This is all sports, not just tennis. I accept that. Things are better interns than other sports. That is no reason for complacency. Four percent, sports media content worldwide is dedicated to women's sport. Any twelve percent of sports news is presented by women. Those starting GD Murray's autobiography I read recently that could to women's sports research gone back in in twenty thirteen but it's government funded research. Only three percent of all sports journalists in the UK women. Listen five percent of all sports coverage is of women's vote and just half a percent of all sponsorship money across all sport goes to women's sport. You are tying women's hands behind their back and saying shrugging and saying, oh, you know, winning can Spain race it it's absurd. And and I find. Too often people focus on sort of the idea of individuals access. There are individuals sexists. They're everywhere. But then the problem, it's the world. And the fact that we live in patriarch in the fact that the market forces that we talk about all the time, they are inherently sexist. That's the problem. And this isn't the natural way of things. This isn't how things should or how we should want them to be. They can be dishing. This is just how things have ever been and they self perpetuating. If you go back twelve years when Wimbledon decided it's time for equal prize money, and they brought in equal prize money. They they did that because it was the right thing to do. Good for them. Venus Williams had see right to parliament to certainly part of that it was on its own. But they they got there, and I would take some hot in that from that. Yeah. I mean. It's it's. The patriarch is a distortion. It's a distortion of the markets. It's a distortion of society, and we should be seeking to correct it. And it will be better for everyone. I do understand. Why men get defensive about it? Because it's easy to see it as some game in an adversary thing that is not how I say. I I it's. I mean, I I kid dove it delve deep into the remnants of what I learned from my philosophy philosophy degree many years ago. And I didn't I didn't take an awful lot from it. But my favorite feminist quite is Gloria Steinem saying. The truth will set you free, but I will piss you off, and I feel like we're in a phase of the world and society where an awful lot of people pissed off and think men having an awfully bad time of it. But just ride out because it it will set you free in the end, I didn't used to be a feminist ten years ago. I was privileged as they come. I was I was cushioned in a world of not realizing how things will totally cocooned went to an all girls grammar school where everyone was completely aspirational than we were encouraged to do whatever we wanted to. There's no reason to. Think that anything would ever stand in our way that I had incredibly supportive parents. You gave me exactly the same opportunities that my brother was given. An I I mean, some of the things that I remember saying about equality feminism, I shudder at now, you know, within the last ten years. I absolutely shudder at them. And it's been a gradual. Awakening a gradual awakening experience an empirical evidence of how things are and that's privileged. That's privilege. I was privileged you privileged. Just open your eyes event. And don't just shrug off forces us the way the world is his. That might be the way the world is. But if it is then by gold, we need to change it. So listen to the Janka tips. A real big up. If you wanna hear the rest of. That was a section of it, Catherine as you can hit doesn't doesn't agree with them. But it's there to be listened to its long it's in detail. And he's fascinating to listen to whether you agree with him or not. And that's what is the show is all about we hope to produce more interviews of that can the future where we're back next week with another show to look back on Madrid to look ahead to Rome. We'll have hopefully grad Matt with us. And we'll be back with you again made a special tennis broadcasts. Michelle won the whole thing brought unisex Tenneco executive produced by tennis balls. Don't come and exactly and who's executive producer. It's not really the why he is our mascots. Yeah. Definitely on my biz. Now, we've actually.

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