Sherese Walker Bingham /// Part 2 /// 349

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Yeah welcome to true crime garage wherever you are. Whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man who still thinks it's funny to call the forty niners niners the sixty niners? He is the Captain Eho. It's good to be seen Good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling your friends this week. We are drinking apocalypse. Cow By the brilliant folks over three floyds brewing company. This is a double. Ip that is both pleasing to drink and like many of their creations. It's not normal. AB eight point six six percent garage grade. Four and a half bottle caps out of five and this week's almost perfect beer was brought to us by our almost perfect listeners. Right here I up cheers to heather and Marian Ohio and a big tears mates to Robin and Columbus Ohio next up we have matthew his cat. Who is a diehard listener? A Carlin listening in Saint Louis and a big we like your job to stormy in Huntington Beach California next. 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The caller referenced. A fourteen year relationship. Eugene was having with another woman Keith. Walker Theresa's older brother who has worked very hard to keep his sister's unsolved murder in the public eye. Hi tells us that about a year before she died. cherise discovered that Eugene had purchased a duplex in town and was renting thing it out. The property manager was listed as a woman whom Eugene met when both of them worked at. UPS Her job there was in the HR department but she moved onto the real estate business. All right hold on. So he's their relationship. Relationship is kind of strange but they're going to stay married. Eugene lives in the basement Beau peep lives in the basement so their marriage isn't great and then she finds out a year before she's murdered. He purchased a property a duplex say purchases and she didn't even vigneault about it. That's that's right according to her brother. That's the information we have. This guy is he's he's not not just lying to the cops. He's lying about everything. This woman and Eugene are having an affair now after Teresa's death. Her family found out that that this woman and Eugene owned another house together. This is where this woman lived. Keith Walker believes this cherise never anew about this other house but she did know about the girlfriend. We aren't going to name Eugene's girlfriend here but it's now his wife life and you can find that information online and in some of the papers we will simply refer to her as the girlfriend now. In any event the side piece cherise found out about this affair and was upset enough to pawn her wedding ring according to her family. Why she didn't leave Eugene? We don't we don't know perhaps she was making plans to do. Just that right. But according to Eugene he says says things were still good with him and his wife initially Eugene and talking to investigators denied the affair but then he told detective novell all that he had a fling. The head ended four years earlier after cherise found out about it but police continue to press press Eugene about who this other woman was and eventually Eugene admitted that it wasn't just a fling that he continued to see this woman and the relationship never ended. He did give police her name and her phone number now back to the phone records that we discussed yesterday the phone numbers of one hundred ship PAG from December third to December eleventh. This is only eight days the eight days leading up to the murder. Eugene called his girlfriend thirty eight times that's what the three followed by an eight thirty eight time caller. She called Eugene Seventy two times Jesus on the day after the shooting. The girlfriend called Eugene Nine Times then communication abruptly stopped with only one call between the two from December Fourteenth Eighteenth Two Thousand and twelve to January twenty seventh two thousand thirteen. That seems incredibly strange. Arrange to have both of those behaviors going on and such a short time period. Yeah Yeah why didn't you gene. Just divorce cherise. If he's already already having this other relationship well number one possible answer here captain money right right. He's but he's also acquiring wealth or properties without her knowing so the state police the Indiana state police. They discovered that cherise had multiple life life insurance policies and that you gene was the beneficiary. According to court documents. Eugene had two life insurance policies on his wife. It's it's not clear whether he was the one that purchase these policies or if in fact cherise was the one that purchased the policies but one of the policies was for two hundred two hundred thousand dollars And the other was for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and cherise had a policy you at work through her work for a total of four hundred and ten thousand dollars. So I'm going to do my public school math for everybody on display. Hey for all to hear and see and witness the brilliance. That's eight hundred sixty thousand dollars in total. That's a ton of money for someone who is really just sitting around drinking and smoking. That is as the colonel says a whole lot of rolling papers that a whole whole lot of zigzags Eugene Win cherise died was unemployed employ. Well I WANNA I wanna be clear on this. So she had a policy through her work. Correct I'M GONNA assume that's pretty standard stuff right. But I'M GONNA assume that she set that up. She seem like a very go getter responsible person and so I'm GonNa say that she said that those there's two pieces of property purchase coaches without her knowledge. Correct I'M GONNA go ahead and say that the other two policies the one for two hundred thousand one and then there was another for two hundred fifty thousand Zain right correct. I would say that those my gut is telling me Eugene bought those and that possibly. She didn't know anything about it. Because so you'd think that the policy through Her work would suffice enough. I think you're spot on for a couple of reasons. Not only do we see another Acts of behavior where he's doing things behind her back. But also purchasing things purchasing property the most people I do not over insure themselves as good as the insurance salesman or woman is most people do not over insure themselves. We're we're talking. Cherise does not have any children yes her and her husband have a home together. But you're not going to set up a situation where you're paying money out of pocket to hold these policies that's going to allow this man to quote unquote hit the lottery. When something happens to you so you would ensure yourself just enough to take care of that person take care of the properties any outstanding bills things like that but with no kids this seems like a huge? ooh amount This is this is over insured so I agree with you. Captain I think it looks like righty that Eugene may have been secretly holding these additional additional policies because the one from her work is the largest. That's four hundred and ten thousand dollars. That's that's a significant amount that takes care of everything anything in ties up all loose ends. Should something happen. Try and takes care you and your basement and in the House that's attached to it. Now when you have two other properties with you know your side piece I think they call them side pieces because their side pieces of shit but But now you have. Two Properties withdrew side peace. Now we have two more policies that cover those as an I. I would like to know when the other two policies were wore bought win. Confronted with this information. Obviously police and detectives are going to to inform Eugene if he can't figure it out for himself that motive motive for murder here could in fact be these three insurance policies. It's money man. They're going to point out to him. Look you are unemployed. At the time that she died now for his is part Eugene said that he had bought into a few businesses. That didn't take off. They hadn't taken off yet for whatever reason that he did own that rental property that did generate some income. So he they're they're making different arguments. The investigators making the argument that money was a motivating factor after and he's trying to negate all that by saying look. I had some income with this rental property and I had some businesses. That just hadn't hadn't taken off yet you. Gene did agree to take a polygraph test and did so on January ninth two thousand and thirteen before the test was initiated. Detectives ask Eugene. What he believed happened to his wife? He said he was mulling this over her for quite some times and actually thinking of several different scenarios he says one possibility cherise had the gun in her pocket. The safety was off in one of the dogs jumped up and discharging the weapon but as we know this just does not work due to the bullet holes in her clothing. That we've already discussed right. Eugene also suggested this cherise could have slipped and fallen and accidentally shot herself then again. The evidence Vince says. Not when pressed Eugene said that all he knew for sure was that cherise did not harm herself on purpose and that he had nothing to do with it he just wanted the whole thing to be over is what he told investigators. This was a nightmare for him as well L. as he states he really missed cherise. But then you gene may have slipped up. And his statement to investigators uh-huh he said that he learned from the corner the projectile and this is a quote. This is a direct quote quote projectile that had killed his wife had been recovered and quote. He said he assumed that law enforcement had matched it to the gun. Found at the scene but on January ninth when Eugene made this statement police had not yet gathered the proof showing that the ballistics stakes were in fact a match and other words. Eugene knew that the bullet came from Theresa's gun before investigators did Uh You gene also made another interesting statement Godley when asked quote what should happen to a person that kills his wife and quote Eugene. Gene responded they should go to jail just like the person that did it and he went on to say that. If you plotted with someone then then you should go to jail along with the person who did it so it looks like you. Gene thought that police release were asking him about a conspiracy about a conspiracy to commit murder. The murder of his wife. Could that in fact be a clue as to what actually actually happen and what actually went down Eugene continued to ramble wondering what would have happened if he had accompanied his wife on her walk. He said I'd probably be in jail according to what he says he seen on TV. The husband is always the first suspect and response lots to questioning. He said that there are three reasons he could think of that. Might Cause someone to kill their spouse money. They fall out of love or they find out their spouse has done something bad yeah but an unfairness. Okay you're asking a question. Whatever where he gives you as an answer that makes them look guilty right right so I mean in all fairness to to him because if you ask me right now in that same question my answer are going to be similar? That doesn't mean I had anything to do with the death of cerise so right and not only that that one one technique. The detectives very often used now keep in mind. I'm summarizing a lot of this information but hold on I. I do want to applaud you because you did. The colonel pulled a Keith. Moore's Y- were you set it up. You know. And then he then he answered. It could be money. Well spent every night watching on the TV learning watching and learning growing trying to become. I'm a better purse. Yeah so But one technique that detectives will very often use is. They'll throw out a question for you. They'll let you answer it. And then they just kind of sit there in hopes that you'll continue to talk and some people will do this in a nervous fashion and others will just do it because there's an awkward silence and it sounds like that's what's going on here that they just throw out a couple of questions it may have even started with some softball questions and he. He gives them an answer and then continues to ramble on ramble. On and away. You know the old the old saying if you if you find yourself in a grave stopped digging you know. So now the polygraph test itself and there are some people out there right now. That are booing. ooh Polygraph again. We understand there on your boo thereof. No use in the court of law but obviously the investigators are still using using them. We are still going to talk about them. So the polygraph itself only presented Eugene with three questions one two three questions the first being did you shoot cherise the second are you the one who shot cherise and the third do you know for sure. Sure who shot cherise. Eugene answered no to all three questions the examiner scored the exam. He determined that it was inconclusive. Live but further indicated that it was very close to a failure a second examined examiner scored the exam and also Oh determined that it was quote at or near failure. Furthermore according to an affidavit an additional check was done with an electronic scoring system that is used only as a reference and that scoring system scored these tests as a failure so the official results of the polly was inconclusive. But detective norval considers Eugene to have failed the polygraph. Okay I I'm trying to fall. You hear stuff this. This part of this story is is very confused so they give one test but they have two different individuals score that tests and then they then they have a computer basically scored the tests as well very well see. I'm thinking about as Keith Morrison. That is why in fact that these polygraph test or not of any use in the court of law because they you know look the slang term terms for them are lie detector tests. The test does not detect lying at all right. It detects your reaction to the question and your behavior of your At the time that you are providing an answer so what that means is. It's not a situation where it was. Did you have McDonald's for breakfast today. And I say yes and then the thing goes which means online no it just records my my reaction to the question into the answer that I'm providing riding and then somebody has to come in and view it with their own eyes and ex you know review the exam and score it by so it's open to interpretation right so so the detectives come into the room and they asked the colonel. Did you have McDonalds breakfast this morning morning. Was He telling the truth. We will never know we may never now. I plead the fifth. I I need to work on my Keith Morrison. So you gene agreed to a second polygraph examination. This was going to take place on January twenty second before the exam. He answered some questions about his affair. He said that he the the woman started off as his business partner but one thing led to another and then it turned into something else he did say that cherise did in fact find out about the affair but he was never never fully honest with cherise. Eugene felt sure that cherise aside not knowing that he was continuing to see this woman. That's probably maybe the most truthful thing that he's ever said his when he was like I was an honest with her. That's probably the most honest thing that this guy could say. Uh I'm allying ship princess but it also in a sense that's him trying to to look when when they say money was a motivating taking factor in her murder. He's saying well I had income. It's not just so so clean and simple that I was unemployed I had income coming in and then when suggesting that the affair would be motive for her murder. He's saying she found out about it. I told I admitted to it. But I wasn't fully honest with her and at the time of her death she died not knowing that I was continuing to see this woman. So if she doesn't know at the time of her death then it may not be a motivating factor for the murders. What he's trying to send right? Let's start with the idea again. We don't know who bought the policies but I think the policies is motive for for murder. I don't care if he even had a job. It's motive for murder the fact that you're having right there or had a fair had one. Aw Or is having one that is motive. That means that you don't like your current situation and so you you decided to run on out on your wife right so also sounds like it doesn't have enough things enough hobbies to fill his day with because he's not busy working so all right but then so we have that but then we also have I think just the fact that he is buying properties and having almost a double life is is motive for murder because when she finds out about the one piece of property she didn't find out about the other piece of property so as he tried to hide that from her and then again it with let's go back to the stepping out on your wife. Okay okay. She knows that you had a fair. But she doesn't know it's continuing. Maybe she knew it was continuing but she didn't give a rat's ass because you're Lazy Pizza Hut ask Li lives in the basement right and she's planning on leaving you anyways. She's just not tell you that because why the hell would she have have to tell you that when you've been stepping out on her right so I think there's a lot of motives here But the issue that I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is I think these motives as as has damning as they are pointing the finger to Eugene. I really makes me start questioning the side piece because all those benefits would benefit her as well. Yeah so when we when we talk about motive though as well. Let's it's for for anything. One thing that I see here the ownership of two properties with this woman that it shows a motive that he was not intending at any time to to leave that other relationship ro his shows a motive that he intends to you further that relationship and to build that relationship and again heading were to lose his more variety to lose and possible income to lose if he if he loses that relationship and one thing. That's not discussed as a possible. Motive is maybe she was maybe cherise was in fact planning planning on leaving him and maybe she expressed that to him at some point right so we we were going down the path of the polygraph. RAFF see not lie detectors but the second polygraph test that he agrees to now this took place on on January twenty second again in the second polly. There were only three questions asked of Eugene. One did you shoot cherise Greece to argue the one who shot cherise and three. Did you participate in the shooting of cherise again. The results of this exam were inconclusive. Conclusive and close to failure. Detective novell tells us that he initially asked you gene to submit to a polygraph exam so he could rule rule the husband out as a suspect. I think that's pretty interesting to hear that from one of the detectives on the case. He's not saying that. We gave him this polygraph test because we believe he was the number one guy because he was the prime suspect we simply asked him to to submit to the polygraph because we wanted to clear him and move on from the husband being a suspect and a look into different areas so for anyone out there. That's going well. They got tunnel vision and they set their sights on Eugene and never never let go left it in in the lock position. I think this statement here to me is is quite telling did that in fact was not the situation. They didn't have tunnel vision. They weren't locked and loaded voted on Eugene and in fact when the results of the polygraph come back and it's found to be inconclusive close to failure this actually changing the mindset and drastically changing and shifting the focus of the detectives working the case and it shifted that focus to Eugene. This episode is brought to you by hallmark art cards. You know we always feel like we need a special reason to give somebody a card. But you don't need a special reason the other day. I gave my mother card just to let her know how much which I appreciate her. And how lucky I am that she is my mother and that meant so much to her and I was like. Why am I not doing this more often? The may be wonder who else else I could send a hallmark card to who else could use some words of support appreciation. 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Did you participate in the shooting of that woman interesting to see the contrast between the two polygraphs even though they were just three questions. Long right when you're questioning the husband husband US state the victim's name and when testing the girlfriend you refer to Sri says that woman find that to be interesting. I don't know what the what strategy is there now. The girlfriend did answer no to all three questions. She was scored as a failure. She left the exam in retained. An attorney Oh really off. Oh man look. We both like lie detector tests but we also tell people if I was charged with a crime crime and then it doesn't matter if I was innocent or not if they said well. Let's give you a lie detector. There's there's no it's like throwing the football and It too bad things can happen or something like that. was what he hayes juice to say that when you throw the football only two only three things can happen in two of them are bad. Meaning it would be intercepted or an incomplete pass and then the one good being that you complete the pass and and right but there's a ball down the field that same with the polygraph he. The good thing is is that you pass pass it. The bad thing is fail but the other bad thing is it's inconclusive. Yeah I mean we've said this before you really. We have nothing to gain by bypassing it right right. Like there's there's really nothing for you to gain because if you do pass the polygraph in graph and in the investigators still have evidence and still believe you to be guilty. They're just going to say well that doesn't matter we can't use it in court anyway right. It's really you just a tool and I think it's it's a tool really to apply pressure to the person that you need. The you want to crack to crack and give a confession Ashen or to crack and give an incriminating statement. A I think that the only way that you would. Let's say you are innocent and you know yourself yourself to be innocent. The only way that you would agree to polygraph. I have seen scenarios where someone says I will do a polygraph exam but But my attorney is going to hire the person giving the exam and we're going to do. The task conduct the test at my attorney's office. You know they really only play like homecourt advantage type situation so it's it's really really a tricky thing and it's really a tricky thing in this particular case because because we stated this at the beginning of yesterday's show this case seems to me to not be solved due to a lack of effort or know. Oh how it seems that this case is just unsolved because of a lack of evidence and police by this point and our story. They believe that Eugene Gene Bingham was in some way responsible for his wife's death however the Walker family began to suspect Eugene's involvement in Therese's death from the beginning according to Deborah mcmurray. That's what she told true. Crime daily and to this day. They still do. They still believe that he he is involved in some way and Therese's death. And here's why this is the circumstantial evidence the gun and its pouch. Were in in two different locations. Contrary to Sharia SA's habit leading the family to believe that the gun was used to kill cherise that it had not gone with her on her walk. DOC only you genes. DNA was on the gun. Although there were no usable prints Another thing that they point to Eugene Hugiene didn't have much of an alibi for that night. Eugene was having a long term affair the dogs they say her families is likely knew the attacker cell phone evidence. Put Eugene Bingham in the area at the time of the murder Eugene. Gene and his girlfriend both failed or close to failed polygraph examinations and finally they point to the fact active cherise had three life insurance policies totaling eight hundred sixty thousand dollars and rotten Bo peep. Eugene was the beneficiary of those policies. Yeah ship Princess So could all of this circumstantial evidence lead to arrest well. After detectives worked the case for sixteen months. Prosecutors felt that there was in fact enough evidence to proceed against Eugene a Marion County county grand jury was convened in March of two thousand fourteen. The girlfriend testified before the panel but did not shed any more light on what it actually happened right because she can't incriminate herself on July sixteenth. Two thousand fourteen. This is nearly early. Two years after cherise was killed and affidavit for probable cause was filed in Marion County. Indiana seeking the arrest of Eugene Bingham. He was arrested on July twenty eighth and charged with murder. The trial was set for September. Two Thousand Fifteen and Keith. Walker representing his sister's estate filed a wrongful death. Action against Eugene Bingham about six weeks before the trial while the Walker family was hit with some devastating news. Marion County prosecutors. Decided to drop the charges against you. Gene Indiana state police detective rich Myers. Who worked the Bingham? Kay said quote. We know we charge the right person but we just need that little bit more of information and quote you. Gene was free to go. So what happened to plunge the the DA's case the short answer is the cell phone. Tower evidence fell apart Ping Ping Ping Ping much like when I tried to read it for. Are you on the show. So according to her brother to cherise his brother Keith Walker. The Prosecuting Attorney and the detectives decided that there was not enough of evidence to convict Eugene. Given that they could not get sprint. The Cell Service provider to testify in court. That Eugene's phone was at the murder scene. All right and but and layman's terms what happened right right. They do the they get the information from spray at some point and that puts him in the area And they start going okay well now his alibis not making any sense now has stories fallen apart but his story is falling apart because they have that information and then when they charge him and they're about to go to trial. It's not even that is telling them that. Hey Look That information we gave. You wore. Not Saying it's right or wrong but we don't think it's accurate. Correct what what was reported on investigation discovery they. They reported that the cell phone company said their data was flawed and that they were no longer confident their records could be relied upon to place Eugene gene at the scene now detective norval explained that the cell phone company could not confirm the location accuracy of the call from. I'm the chiropractor remember. That's the call that went to Eugene's voicemail around seven thirty seven forty. Yeah as as they could for an answered third call okay. So what he saying he that they were told by. The cell phone provider was because that phone call went to voicemail. The provider is saying that information is less accurate than had Eugene answered the Call Ping would be more accurate red and because they're not willing to testify in court at his trial. The judge isn't going to let that evidence Stan hand. If you don't have an expert there to back it up right you go on so this again is in relation to the seven forty one. PM Call Regarding where where the pins were coming in from the cell phone towers towers. This would have put you jeans phone by the river at that time rather than at home like he said he was but the provider saying we can't one hundred percent backed that up the other thing too. Captain is you and I know from other cases that this cell phone tower. pinging evidence really isn't or doesn't seem to be super reliable and in most cases right. I wish they checked in. I don't know if they did but The girlfriend decide pieces cell phone to check that locations and see Where where her whereabouts outs were because to me? One of the things that you gene when he says you know when they ask him what should happen to a a husband that that kills his wife and he starts going while you should go to jail just like the person that did it again. It's almost like he's making making up this narrative of. Yeah okay. I if if my girlfriend gets caught for the murder I should go to jail too and so I really like to know where her where whoever he hired to kill her right. But I'd like to know where her whereabouts are because to me. It seems like again. She has just as me motive says him and at and now they're married so that net now they're lifelong team and it's like I like to know where she was at. Yeah I mean the other thing too. Is You really wonder if that seven forty one call. That goes to his voice mail. Is that really the slip up because in every every situation a criminal or a team of criminals makes a mistake they just do. There are no such thing as perfect crimes. It's just detective. Do not detect what the mistake is in can't can't really exploit that mistake to their advantage so you wonder if that seven forty one. PM Call if that was the slip up because remember he. Eugene tells law enforcement forcement that his wife was there at their home at the start of the basketball game which is starting around that same seven forty one time frame within minutes of that and you wonder if if look if he was in a different place in trying to make up an alibi and somebody else's out doing the dirty deed but does not reach out to him until seven forty one and his is p brain. He's saying I only need to see. I need to account for my alibi around this time of seven. Forty one which according to the investigators timeline and men's nothing she had been killed and been found and police responded and our eleven minutes earlier than that right so it. It's it's all very tricky here. Unfortunately what takes places the authorities have to explain to cherise his family. That because of double jeopardy Berty is best for them to drop the charges for now and to strive to obtain more evidence to build an iron clad. In case against Eugene Bingham nine years later the family is still waiting. The wrongful death suit suit was essentially settled. The Life Insurance Company was forced to pay on the policies onshore. Isa's breath once once. The charges were dismissed against Eugene. They had to pay him for those policies. Now he can take that money and hire better to lawyer well. Well since Keith was suing on his sister's behalf to collect the funds instead the insurance company paid the proceeds into the core and then the court held them until the dispute between Keith and Eugene could be resolved via mandated arbitration Keith. On on behalf of Sharia says estate felt that he had no choice but to settle for seventy five thousand dollars. Eugene Bingham collected the rest and he then married his long time girlfriend they still own the house where cherise and Eugene lived as husband and wife. Police still consider eugene the or the suspect in this open been an unsolved murder. As we've seen from all the things we've discussed it certainly would have been possible for or Eugene to be the shooter and to have acted alone but there are also some other possibilities. Eugene seemed to be addressing the Detectives Questions From The Perspective of conspirator right when asked what should happen to the murderer. He responds if someone plotted with someone to kill all someone else. They should be prosecuted equally. He volunteered the conspiracy. Angle you gene could have hired someone to kill his wife. This would likely have had to involve possibly burner phones and Eugene giving Therese's gun to the shooter in advance dance. The shooter would have followed cherise to the trail right member. We said her family says she thought she was being followed. Ban The blue blazer right and could have pretended to be a pedestrian or even a cyclist and shot cherise from close range before the dogs would have alerted to any danger if it happened this way though one would think that Eugene would come up with come up with a better alibi than I fell asleep on the couch. Yeah one thing that is strange regardless of how this went down or who is responsible according into detective norval no witnesses ever have come forward to say that they heard a gunshot. This is in the middle of a city city not in a remote area And it's surprising. Since when detectives arrived on the scene there were more than a couple of by standards in the area. Yeah was the shooter. Lucky you know we. We've talked about that and I hate to say it that way. But we've talked about it and so many other cases they'll say it in your Keith. Morrison voice voice in every bell like it better. Sometimes he scumbags just get lucky and whatever went down that night might that might just be part of it or did the shooter did here. She follows cherise and make sure that no one else was around before making their move. That's a possibility as well. Yeah Okay Okay so weirdly though. I think Eugene got lucky because I actually think he was at home. I think that was the plan and he was at home home. And then the Cell Phone Ping Technology was actually wrong. Because I don't know necessarily if he would would have been the one to try to pull this off unless his girlfriend was at his house. I I just think it's you. Don't you take her polygraph tests. Look we know. He's a known liar. But when you look at her polygraph tests to me she failed the test and that that that puts her involved somehow now again we were not stayed in her name. She doesn't have to be guilty of anything other than knowledge though to fail that test right right meaning meaning. She didn't have to kill cherise or participate in the actual crime itself. Other than you gene. Or whoever is responsible ensemble may have told her what happened prior to that test because at one of one of those questions is simply. Do you know what happened to that woman. Do you know who shot that woman and she could be lying about that right but if you shatter European shit if you knew Eugene Shatter your piece of this shit you know what I mean if you know somebody else did it. Oh yeah nobody's arguing. Chevy's argue now. I'm just clearing up that because she didn't pass the polygraph doesn't mean that she was the the triggerman right. She was shook she has knowledge. And that's pathetic. You're living with this man and you have knowledge that he either and again to me if you have knowledge of it and you're not going to the police and then on top of that you're gonNA marry this guy it's like you're even a bigger a piece of shit that I thought you will. You're freaking moron too because look your piece of shit for knowing and not going to the police. You're more on for marrying a guy that you know. Did something something terrible or was involved in something as heinous as a murder. Yeah and a lot of times. They'll say don't get involved. That seem like a good person to shack up with right as you you you would be the next in line for what happened to Cherie right that's like when to married. Couples are having a fair and then the people that are having an affair get married married and then they're jealous all the time because they know that what the person's capable of while so now that you know he's capable of young one one not having a job in sponging off his significant other Living in the basement smoking is a zigzags You know he's capable Whoa of that you know he's also capable of lying for fourteen years in having this affair you know he's capable of buying property behind your back and and now you know that he's capable of murder or hiring somebody for murder conspiracy for murder. So what's where's your self worth Y- idiot you know so. It's ridiculous and and I hope she hears this goes you know maybe maybe I could could be in danger one day and I should go to the police and say hey. This is what I know. Because with the evidence they have and take away the Ping Ping adding evidence with evidence. They have and her confession. Yeah maybe go to jail for a little bit. But the they'll make a deal with you and then he'll go away. He'll go away for a really long time. which will protect you? I don't think this woman who would be in her late fifties. I'm guessing based off of what we have in front of us I don't believe that that now. She would grow brain after all these years walking around on this planet bumping into walls and such but I think here in this this is something that is not going to help up the case at all but this is where my questions lie is with the pouch. The gun pouched the the one that was made specifically to house. How's The gun that killed cherise cherise? 's Gun yeah. I feel that it's very interesting for two reasons that those two things were separated. I see no reason why they should have been separated other than somebody was conspiring against. Cherise for the sake of murder or plotting by themselves her murder right and I think what's interesting thing here. Where is that Eugene is the one who reported it now? I know we've said a lot of bad things about Eugene and I've called him a lot of different names names but at least in this situation he was smart enough to identify to recognize if they find these two items separately and away from one another. I now have to. If I don't WanNa have to be the one to explain that away. I might. This will be the one to report it to detectives that I found it at our home. Yeah agree and where I'm going with. This is to situations okay if you gene was plotting with was was conspiring with somebody else to shoot and kill cherise on the trail or or or at some location if she was being followed. Maybe this location. That night was not planned. It was just whenever you can pull it off do it. But the reason for that pouch that gun to be in separate locations. I I'm a gun owner. I keep my guns in cases and things of that nature. I have areas where I keep them if I see that case my assumption is because my gun is always in there. Unless I'm using the gun is in their meaning cherise could could see potentially see that pouch at her home and believed that her son on was in that pouch without checking meaning he could have had to give that gun to the other person so then when opportunity comes a knocking his his consp- his conspirator has the weapon on their person and can pull the trigger then in their bright and leave the gun. Wish cherise right but he also oh had a matching gun so he could just take in her little gun person put his gun in there. You know as a decoy correct correct and then to further that thought thought then the other thing is if in fact Eugene was the trigger man maybe when he dumped the gun next to cerise and he took off those winter gloves that were found next to her body so his prints or somebody else's prince wouldn't be on the gun and dropped them next to her body as well maybe he forgot to dump the pouch there as well and or maybe he forgot to bring with him that night and then later decided. Well I got to account for this and rather than be the one that has to explain it away. Maybe just report it. They will not consider. Consider this to be part of of the large amount of circumstantial evidence that points to Eugene enclosing the cherise Walker Bingham murder his now cold-case the Walker family continues to hold vigils and conduct facebook campaigns to help bring attention to the case. Everyone remains hopeful that someone will come forward and do the right thing we we would like to thank detective veil and the Indiana State police for all of their hard work on this case and thank them again for taking time out of their very very busy schedules to answer our questions. We wish the Walker family. Nothing but the best and would like to remind everyone that if you have have any information at all to please call the Indiana state police at one. Eight hundred four five three four seven five five six simply safe makes home security easy with no contract hidden fees or fine print for just fifteen dollars a month you you get twenty. Four seven professional monitoring throughout your home and simplisafe uses their revolutionary video verification technology to visually confirm arm. That break INS are happening allowing police to get to you. Three point five times faster visit simplisafe dot com slash garage and you'll get free reshipping and a sixty day risk free trial that simplisafe dot com slash garage simplisafe dot com slash garage. This episode is brought brought to you by a hallmark cards. I recently gave my mother our car just to tell her how much I appreciate her. And I'm telling you it meant so much you don't need need a special reason too bright in somebody's day give it a try. See what a card can do to show how much you care. VISIT HALLMARK DOT com slash garage Raj to shop cards for any occasion and use our Promo Code Garage to get twenty percents off your card purchase. That's hallmark dot com slash garage. This this week we have a little recommended listening for everybody out there make sure people. That's right I just heard the captain headphones now. I'm listening. Listen on this week we are telling you we are telling only the hard core garage listeners. 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