Charles Manson - Best of Coast to Coast AM - 12/10/20
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Five g for you for details mel. Here's a highlight from coast to coast. Am on iheartradio and welcome back to coast to coast. George noory with tom. O'neil with us. Author of chaos He also wrote it with dan. Pipe in bringing. Was i close in pronouncing his name. Tom perfect. Hey talk about synchronicity. Listen to this This story just handed to us The granddaughter of charles manson victim the lobby bianca's she's forty years old was stabbed to death in her colorado home. A twenty four year old man has been arrested for the murder. unbelievable pretty tragic The family have had a rough time. I i heard from her sister after after it happened and I talked to her mom a bit but not not fence. This tragedy. tom. I wanna play this clip. That russ regan had sent us some years ago before he passed on his wife cheryl. Just send it to us again today. Kind of set. The scene for us. I before i played this audition tape of charlie manson set the scene. He was obsessed with being a musician. Wasn't he yeah yeah. I actually interviewed. Ross i didn't know he passed away. That's too bad a couple of years ago. Yeah he was how. I'm sorry recently a couple years ago. Yeah he was. I think the first one to record manson in september of sixty seven with An engineer named gary stromberg for universal. And i i'm pretty sure russ thought he was talented. Manson and Had a funny story. I don't know if he told you about the beads that he was wearing. No i don't recall that but we're going to play that clip that russ regan recorded The whole tape lasted like twenty nine minutes. I'm just gonna play a couple minutes. What you're going to hear in the beginning is charlie. Manson kind of babbling a little bit and then he starts playing his music on a guitar. Here we go lion. Yeah start turn machine okay. Yeah you know. Can't you just turn it on my go here. We're going to let it go right and take out what you want and the rest of the way. You should get a job making people. Americans was we people from the six homes down. You want in happy happy john. Let's see what was we talking about six into restless people from you. The person the line you just send things get worse. What's tv enrico bit. That's ups a portion of it. Tom my god. He had He had he had a strange giggle to himself. The denise. i've never heard that before. That's pretty amazing. I never heard him some vulnerable. Like admitting he was nervous he sounded the sounded kind of innocent. They're with that little laugh and stuff like that doesn't sound like told me he didn't see any kind of danger or violence or he said they were just a bunch of happy. Go lucky can't say did have a odd Control over the girls but he didn't see it as sinister route said and i guess they rejected him in What did he do. Flip out to you. That would part of his motive. Well the official version. Yes terry melcher who was doris. Day's on and record producer in his own right who was very successful He had auditioned mass and at the spahn ranch after meeting him. Once or twice and again this is all the official version. told manson that he thought it would be better. If a documentary film were made about him in the group and and he was going to refer a friend of his to do it and supposedly that enraged manson and meltzer had lived in the house. Where sharon tate was killed prior prior to her being there and manson chose the house according to leo see to instill fear and its former occupant terry melcher for rejecting him. I uncovered evidence that meltzer had a very different relationship with manson and it extended beyond the murders and he saw them quite extensively and A lot of documents in the book and and it took a long time to get access to police and sheriff's files. But that's the case i lay out among the many kind of anomalies of of what we've always thought of as the official version of this case. Really have at falls apart under close scrutiny. How many people did manson no in the hollywood world that you know might have been actors and actresses that We didn't know about That's debatable. I mean the ones that have admitted it or dennis wilson before he died. Neil young A few other kind of studio musicians and that type but most people claim that they had never had any encounters with them Mama cass elliot was supposed to have no i've never been able to verify that But he did get around quite a bit. In the late steve mcqueen. The great actor was invited to go to that house. The night of the murders. Yeah maybe a lot of people said they were invited that night and didn't go for whatever reason he was very close to Shine and roman and and jc. Bring the hair stylist I'm not sure. If i mean there was never gonna be a party that night It was just the people who were killed who were at the house at night. Where the only ones their time you spend a lot of investigative time in chaos talking about the prosecutor vincent bugliosi and You covered a lot of things about some of the notes he taken and things like that. Tell us a little bit about this. Do you think he screwed this up or he. He lied about something. Would what happen. I don't think he screwed it up. I think he did exactly what he had planned to do. I make an argument in the book that he was compromised That he was given the job he was pretty much unknown deputy. Da just in the office a couple years and he was handed. You know the biggest murder trial in los angeles history prior to oj and What world didn't know at the time was he had Gotten involved with was stalking someone who he thought had fathered his child. That's person happened to be His milkman and he was committing crimes he was using the. Da's office to get information. He told them he was a witness and a possible suspect and he was sending him threatening. Knows all this stuff should have caused him to not only lose his job but to be disbarred and didn't come out until well after you know believes he was already famous and running for office door a couple of other incidents like that so i You know the thesis of my book is to the murders happened because manson just randomly picked this house and these victims to start a race war. I argue that a lot of other elements involved provoking manson manipulating manson off beginning in nineteen. Sixty seven. I lay out the case that as soon as he was released from prison in sixty seven and went to san francisco. I mean his going up. There was a violation of his parole the very day he was released because he wasn't supposed leave los angeles instead of being sent back to prison. He was given a new parole officer named roger smith who was a drug researcher working at the haight ashbury free medical clinic which was opening that summer of sixty seven and roger basically look the other way as manson was committing crimes recruiting young and underage girls to his hair and had a very unusual relationship with manson. If you know the book stranger in a strange land by robert heinlein and kind of modeled. His commune after the book. The novel and in that book It's about a character comes from mars to kinda take over the world. The way manson wanted to and His protector is called jew ball. And that's a manson. The girls called roger smith the federal parole interesting to ball because he was protecting them and the relationship is as weird as oswal jack ruby and you mentioned ruby in the book i i do because when manson was going to the haight ashbury free medical clinic with the girls for them to get Treatment you know they had std's and All kinds of some of them were pregnant but he was going there for his parole meetings with roger and he had become rogers only client by the end of nineteen sixty seven into nineteen sixty eight and this is where we get into the really crazy part of the book. There was a psychiatrist. There named jolly west who some of your listeners may have heard of before he had been alleged to be part of a cis mta also pro and denied it until he died in nineteen ninety eight or nine and i uncovered documents showing that not only was he. A part of the nfl's a program which was a mind control program that the cia began in nineteen fifty two but he was the architect of it was sydney godly the main scientists and found all the letters between him and gottlieb outlining what they were gonna do it kind of parallels what manson did with his girls and what happened to the family again. It's all laid out in the book. It sounds crazy. Just synopsys inc. I quickly like that. Well i was gonna say. Is it conceivable that the cia could've even used manson to take these innocent kids who had no crime records in. Turn them into rabi murderers. Yeah i mean the cia was actually. Their ultimate objective was to create people. Who could be programmed kill without any awareness that they had been programmed or any memory of it. Sir hanser hand possibly. Yeah that's the one thing. We had to leave out of the book. If i'm thinking of doing a follow up. And i have a couple of chapters already Outlined on on hand and and the same cops same prosecutors in los angeles who investigated. And then you know. Try han within involved. A year later in the tate labianca case and there were a lot of parallels between the two. We have been trying to get an interview with sir hands. Her hand working with his brother muneer in his attorney william pepper. And if we're successful. I want you to come with me. Yeah that'd be great. I mean i know. Bill vapor and I've met with a bunch of times. And i know other people who are trying to get hannah new evidentiary hearing and I think he definitely. I don't think he was the one who killed robert kennedy. I think he was in the pantry. Obviously he shot at him. But i believe in the second gun. Very with ironically vince. Breglio see who's known as being an anti conspiracy person. His twenty year project was booked. Punking the john f. Kennedy conspiracy assassination conspiracy called reclaimed right. Yeah and He tried to get the robert kennedy assassination case reopened in the mid seventies arguing. That there was ample evidence of a second. i'm in. He never talked about that when he kind of changed his stance. I believe he was Paying off debts his whole career for You know he was working for. The man was something that happened between one thousand nine hundred sixty seven thousand nine hundred sixty nine when the murders were done to charlie manson because this listening to his audition and his silly little laughs. Yeah i mean that doesn't sound like a guy who's a murderer. And as you said russ regan's saudi was a okay guy y- yeah a lot of people did who met him. In the beginning. A lot of people said he was inconsequential. They could never imagine him. He really transformed in under a year from the so. You wouldn't look twice at you. Know he was small he was silly. I mean the giggling and stuff. I have heard him talk and geico like that. Before but he transformed from that into this like Evil unitech lunatic. Yeah and such a short amount of time and also he learned in some way how to control the minds and actions and behavior more than thirty people and under two years. And that's another thing. When i was reading his book the first time. When i got the magazine assignment. I kinda got stuck on a paragraph in the epilogue we're bully. Oc admits that even after he's put them all away and you know prison and they had all gotten most of them have gotten death sentences that were later overturned by the state supreme court but He said the one thing. We might never know how manson was able to learn how to get people to kill on command. He goes and he writes us in the book. Was it something he learned in prison or was it something he was taught by others. It's something i think we'll never know and that's kind of that was my starting point When i started reporting this was trying to find out what happened and bullying us. You really only gives a few pages to the first year. Sixty seven that manson was out of prison when he became charlie manson cult leader. And that seems suspicious to me. That's why spend a lotta time up in san francisco interviewing people there and going and getting archival documents Reports from the medical people at the haight ashbury free medical clinic and on confronting roger. Smith is parole officer. David smith who ran the clinic. Well you can tell. A lot in the is tom. In the eyes of charlie manson after he was arrested and put in jail on some of the clips. We've seen over the years. He looks like pure evil. I mean pure evil doesn't look like the eyes of a guy that are russ regan would have seen. Yeah exactly and unfortunately. I interviewed him a few times but when i interviewed him he wasn't allowed to have visitors always misbehaving so he'd be in solitary confinement and he'd be allowed out like one night a week to do phone calls. How close did you get to him. It was phone calls. I interviewed him two or three times on. The phone wasn't allowed to visit him in person than five or six years later. I tried again but he refused to talk to me because he heard some of the stuff. I've been doing You know he wasn't supposed to be communicating with his former followers but he was and they were telling him the kind of questions. I was asking then. I got some death threats. From from his handlers. Outside of prison. I hear watching. Who was one of the True murderers in this episode Became a minister got married. Had kids got divorced. had conjugal visits in prison and my god but he had seventeen paroles tonight. I don't think he'll ever get out. Yeah yeah he. has four children and is divorced and bruce davis another convicted manson family member. He's also a christian minister in prison. It's amazing amazing. Indeed listen to more coast to coast. Am every weeknight at one am eastern and go to coast to coast am dot com for more. I'm debbie brown. 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