MTTA 79: Mike Gomes
You're listening to meet the throw author the podcast for interview writers of mysteries, thrillers and suspense books. I am host Alan Peterson. And this is episode number seventy nine in this episode of the podcast, we'll be meeting might gums, who is an Amazon. Number one bestselling author who loves riding fast paced action pack. Knob mica several bestselling thriller series out there, including the fallout file with talking to Mike about writing thrillers learning his process, and whole bunch more. So stay tuned for that. And just a quick don't if you are a writer or an aspiring writer, listen to this podcast, I highly recommend you check out the Dan Brown. Masterclass on writing thrillers now you can check that out at a thrilling weeds dot com for slash Brown. That is an affiliate link. And so if you do the Senate for the class, I will receive a commission from masterclass, so it's a great way to support this podcast. So thank you for that. Here's my interview with microbes. Hey, everybody. This is Alan Peterson with meet the filler author and Skype behalf. My gums, welcome to the podcast. Mike. Thank you very much Allen. I appreciate it a little bit about yourself. I forty eight years old. I live here in Massachusetts. I have four children, and I kind of have always loved writing it got into writing and way back when I was a journalism, major back in college. And at that time as newspapers were going by the sideboards on the internet was kicking in everybody was telling us, we could not make a living writing for newspapers anymore. So I wound up going on getting a degree in social work. A master's degree in clinical social worker for over twenty years, which is actually aided me, a lot and writing thrillers. I can imagine as we always, even when you were been working. To your the social work. You're always writing or thinking about writing was that all something that was in the back of your head all the time. I it was it was always the dream, it was always there of something that I wanted, but it was so much of it was based on. You know, the gatekeepers of traditional publishing was there, and it seemed like a far away goal for a guy that grew up with learning disabilities. Like I did. And things like that. It just seemed like a fantasy and as after getting married and having children, I found what I was doing was storytelling to them all the time low of always enjoyed that. But particularly I was doing it with my kids, and I would make up characters in different stories for them, and then I'd put them on audio for driving the car, things like that, just, you know, probably four or five years ago. You know, my wife said gee show all those stories she did for the kids, she should make a children's book for them. And my mind was still on how there were vanity presses, and you'd have to print so, so many copies for that. And that's when I. Learned about print on demand in that changed a lot. So I did the little children's book for them just so they could kind of put it away. Maybe read it to the grandkids someday might I have my children. I have a generation gap, even between them. There's a nineteen nineteen seventeen year old and then ten in the seven, so I decided I would make just for my own pleasure. I put together a trilogy of children's story. Kind of middle school age type thing and my kids enjoyed it and actually their friends really enjoyed it. And then some by friends. Got it off of Amazon and their kids liked it and I thought I would really love to, you know, see what more I can do in this. And that's when I shifted over to the adult books, which were kind of more my style, and started gathering as much information as it could from podcasts and everything else. And I realized, while people can actually really do this and being an independent up author or having. Your own small publishing house of just yourself and maybe one or two other people as an actual viable thing nowadays. And that changed the game for me completely it became something that was real. Will you a fan of the of the thrillers before you even begin to write them or thinking about right at absolutely thrillers, and horror or have always been big favorites? Stephen King, of course, just in love with him from when I was a younger kid. I my dad, I can remember talking about, you know, his lunch hour instead of sitting with the other people at work in talking to them. It actually go out to his car, just so he could read Stephen King in, in read the different things that he had and I fell in love with the first one was really fire starter was something that really grabbed me, because it had the, the psychological thriller piece, and it was, you know, a little bit supernatural. And then what Stephen kicked to that. Series of three books that were about awful things that can happen to authors with misery. And some of those other ones that was another one that just made me like I loved that concept of trying to keep people little bit on the edge of their seat in right things that weren't. Just so neatly put together. I really liked that style. And then as I got older I really enjoyed like recently of read a lot of the Mark Dawson stuff, which I like a lot of always likely child in, in the born books, as well as the, the movies when they came out, they were great because they were just different types of heroes. And that's what I've always liked the the hero. That's not so simple as a so for listeners who who haven't read any of your books. Okay. Describe your bookstore this. Sure. I think one of the great descriptions, I ever got was from a person sent me an Email, and he, he said to me, you have a twisted sense of Justice. Then went on to say like he said, what you write. I consider grit lit. And then he explained that it was greedy literature. It was the stuff that was the characters felt much more real to him. And I've got this response from other people that it's not necessarily an anti hero. It is people that are just very humanly flawed. The concept behind the philosophy is he is a Michael flowers, the main character, and he has led a rough life, most of his life, and he has some kind of background that isn't totally divulged military in some way. And the love of his life, winds up dying in a car accident with him driving. And he is just completely haunted by this. He destroys his life in every way and then an old friend comes into his life, who is connected very secretive group of these rogue judge. Ges who are still practicing in regular life, but people don't know who they are. And they kind of retry cases that they think the verdict was wrong. And that either people due to their great wealth, or connections, or whatever it might be got away with just horrific crimes and. They need people that are able to get out there and bring these people in for a second trial and do it all covertly. And so this old friend winds up getting to Michael flour. And he the, the only thing that keeps him from having trouble with alcohol and nightmares and flashbacks. And all these things is to immerse himself in this work where he's he. He's constantly in the struggle of what I like to say is, you know, how bad can you be still be good? And that's what it's like for him. He does these things that are obviously not good things. He knows enough. Good things, but he's got to convince himself there for a greater good. They're taking away this removing this person that is horrible in society, but he has to do all bad things that he might not even agree with in order to get rid of this person, and that, that group that does this with these judges called the system. And that's the spinoff series. It's that, that series, the system series is more about how it started the original people in it, and that's got like a layer of kind of historical fiction in it as well. Where the stories are Backdropped over real life things that happened in the past peace. Love and death is all about basically back. It's it's in the summer of love. It takes place in San Francisco. And there's a I'm trying to remember the name of the park that I used in the film. But there's a small park in San Francisco, where a lot of the, the young people of the time came. Well, the kids were all doing drugs at that time, this is all about the people that were running the drug trade at the time, and how they the, the in battle over that and the introduction of heroin into that system. And so these men that are the original members of the system, how they went in there to see what. Going on with this drug trade and try to eliminate it because it was worth millions and millions of dollars. But the rest of the world and the news and everybody who is focused on the whole peace and love part of things in the summer of love when there was actually a whole underworld that was going on for finding the control. Yeah. That's awesome. I actually I live in San Francisco. So when I saw the book and the guy got a I started to read it, and yeah, I'm walking distance from the east park. So I was like, oh, this is cool. I love it. I read stuff that went on. You know, a book where I live at it's gonna cool. Yeah, it was a fun one to research to because it's you know, I was able to, you know, the technology that we have, like, Paulo Google maps data rate on the streets. You know, in see what the park looked like. And then go back and read some of the things about the park and those old stories George Harrison was a plane guitar with people, and this, and that, and they talked about, but everybody was using at the time. And that's what kind of got into my head was like, wow, someone had to be supplying it, and they probably made a lot of money, and then it was like, oh, I bet those competition, though. So it just kind of all falls around that, that people looking for that kind of control and then just kind of fun characters that I get to put in there, too. That is cool because I've only been living here, ten years. But it would have talked to my co older neighbors who, who were here during the summer of love. They mentioned that what you said, you know, that wasn't like all, you know, flowers in your hair and all this lovey dovey stuff. There was like it was a lot of drugs, and it was, you know, people passing out and overdosing and throwing up and like you don't hear that when, when they're talking about the summer of loved that much. Yeah, there's actually one of the early things that sparked it for me was. The story originated from ice. Our interview, Brian Wilson did it and he said from the beach boys, and he said, you know, he went up to the area and he saw it, and he said instead of love he saw addiction, and he said he'd been around that when he was younger, and he had his own battles with things, and he said, there was just like no way around that, like, yes, people were having fun. And they were having all these other things. But you know for him. That's what he saw, and that kind of first prior to the first seed about, you know, wanting to know more about that. I like to look at events that kind of glorified and then find out what really happened. You know, the, the real instance, you know, currently I'm writing another one of those books, I'm just about done with it for the system in the backdrop is the days actually, right before. Martin Luther King is killed, and it's a lot about just, you know, one of these little towns that is way down. It was essentially just trying to keep itself purely white, and they had their own way of keeping everybody out. And the guys have to go into that. But it was great like putting it in connection with what was going on with Martin Luther King at the time, and where he was going through, and having marches, and then this fictional town how they reacted to all of this. So yeah, it's fun to do that, when you can play with the historical fiction as well, so the system books. So the place in the past, and then the Philadelphia Eagles are present. Yup. They're they're supposed to be current day, and I try not to get too specific on putting a date on them in the books because I just I like them to be more evergreen, I lo- sometimes the technology can fade from time to time. I'm sure ten years from now when I talk about cellphones he'll be entirely different. When people read back on, I might have to go back and just things. But they're supposed to be modern books in a lot of that the main locate. That Michael flou- lives in is that he lives in Boston Massachusetts, which of, you know, like so the actual places he talks about where he lives his home. I had buddies that lived in the exact building that I'm thinking about where I say he lives in of, you know, gone for pizza on the corner late at night, after a party in the, the rate at the corner of mass Avin, Columbus, where he he lives in, you know, in a rough tough neighborhood. And that's a lot of fun. Like that's a lot of fun because it's bring up my old memories of things that I did those areas, and I can remember care, people not characters, but people who work characters were around the neighborhood and, you know, like it kinda inject some of their personalities into certain thing. How many books you have now published? The, the flower files has six with a seventh that's coming out, and there are two so far for the system and then actually still I don't really do much with them, but still up our is. Trilogy of the middle school books called the young adventurous club. Ironically. Well, not ironically. But interestingly. Michael, allow starts off in the young adventurous club of that character is from that story. And I loved the character so much, actually he's named after my first son, Michael, and in those books, of course, I it's you know, I always say the books kind of go like the way comparing myself to the Harry Potter books at all. But, like how they progressed the older their reader, Scott, the more, intense, the book, Scott. So book one was much more simple than book seven. The the middle school age books of the adventures club. Michael is a much more like kind of idealistic character they're written for kids. So there's a lot of fantasy in there. There's a lot of that stuff. And when it ends he, he has separated himself in, when we pick up with the flower files, he's in his late twenties in the world is very adult. All of a sudden and is very there's basically no mention too. What went on before in his life when he was younger? But it's like some people that have read the whole thing, they'll say, you know, if you feel like adult those fairly childish, because they are for kids in, but they will say, like they like that, that it went from being very much a kids read to all of a sudden, this character was an adult with adult problems in an adult life. And, you know, all the things that go along with getting older, and having your life in front of you. And that was good because I was a little, I liked the character so much I was a little worried like they didn't want kids also following. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I always put likely, basically don't read the still you're eighteen because it's a little more intense than you probably used to. I can see that non you're on your Amazon page where you bio action packed novels for adults. Got I was wondering why I understand? It was to avoid that specifically like I said, I really don't do anything those books. They kind of get picked up by more people through word of mouth. Some, you know, there was some good feedback on that from different teachers around that read it in different school districts across the country. I've been contacted by them. They said, oh, I've had my students read it. I'll, you know, they like it, it is geared more towards seventh eighth grade. Maybe ninth grade just into high school because it's the subject matter gets more intense as they go along through the three books. But once you take that leap into the real philosophize those are very adult. I don't put I, I don't think I've ever written any kind of a sexual scene or anything like that. But there is more graphic nece just talking about his depression, just talking about his struggles and ju- the drinking and in those things, yeah, it would be too much for a kid to watch. To watch it but great fun to write. I tell you. Isn't that what do you do you get your? When you start. You mentioned the doing the social or to you the things that you've had in your real life, make it into your books into your stories. Absolutely. It's very interesting that. As a writer into four or five years where I've been publishing books, and it is really only been in the last six months to year that things. All of a sudden just exploded. I learned a big lesson, which is no matter how good your book is if people can't get in front of them. They never know that you're doing good work in that. You're right fun books. So I, I learned a lot about basically just kind of getting my book to other people, you know, doing giveaways, getting them to people, and it turned into much, much more. So even currently, I'm gonna I'm gonna just been counselor in school and a high school, which is a collaborative school for kids that are having trouble in regular schools. They, they go to this school. And before previous to this I spent ten years, working emergency room. So during that time I saw everything that there was possibly to see in there are just so many people that I just, you know, scrape a little pieces off of different people and use them as characters even the kids, I work with now it's a lot of them are a little more city kids. And so just knowing the basic language, and what words being certain things it helps give a little more authenticity into the books. In. That's very helpful. You know to do that. In the as I said that the time being in an emergency room, you just learn so much. I, I learned a lot about medicine. I learned a lot, about just people that are coming in, when they're in pain, I learned lots about substance abuse, and those things. So a lot of things that come into play. I worked in a you know, an inner city hospital. So a really got to gain, a lot of knowledge of just what people are dealing with in those kind of situation. Fest festival way of, of keeping in keeping your current, you know, because if I was to read about streak his outta go back from my own experience. It'd be they sell it. They're back in the eighties. Yeah. Me too. I it's like the, the kids, I work with now. They would say something was, you know, they would just say, oh fire and I said, you know what is fire guys? And, oh, that means great them really good. Like they would say that's fine. They're just a fire. I was you know, I'm not so bad, that I looked for smoke free. Wow. Yeah. You see, no clue that those even thing so. That's something out there. And it's great 'cause they, you know, they turned me onto listen to their music, and their stuff, and it's like, oh, I didn't even you know, my wife and I joke with each other all the time. And they have the Grammy's around we go. Who are these people have no idea who they are anymore? And these guys have taught me like a whole bunch about. Even just what it's like for kids today and their situation. And, and how different it is at I know there's a book in there at some point that's going to come out with, you know, learning about their struggles and kind of just today. What it's like to be a real inner city kid dealing with a lot of these struggles. Day to day for them. And eventually, you know, I obviously wouldn't take any of their individual stories or anything like that. But kind of composite of just what they deal within at some point, that'll be another treasure trove to dig into. And so. So what is your writing process than do you? When you sit down to research plan, do you like outlined it, or do you just get ideas? And then you start writing the stories. I get the ideas I, I actually I I'm a kind of a stickler for, for my system. And my system is essentially once a year I will put down a bunch of ideas for different books. The ones that continue to grab me about a few weeks later, I'll to just a very quick outline at a basic idea of what the book is going to be. And then a quick outlined from there. I kind of go by the seat of my pants and I start writing what I've grown to love, especially while still having my regular job is I dictate and I do it to and from work driving in the car. And at first, I thought that would be just so difficult to do. But actually while I'm driving it totally. Let's my mind Lecco and go into the store. Sorry. So opposed to just listening to the radio, I told myself story, and then when I get home, I'll correct all the messes that dictation did. And then I and then I'll start digging into, like, okay. This location and that location. And then fill in the parts that I want to beef up. And, you know, I think that the language could be better, and that it's a great process. I- I-, tempted earlier on to really outline things, but I found I would stray with it because I was in my mind, another character would come and I just like them in, I'd find them kind of dynamic. And so, I'd wanna give them more of a role and I drift away from my original thought process, some of the books of, you know, turned into of peace. Love and death is one where, you know, I've found a character that I just really liked. It was going to be a connector character to the real bad guys to the good guys coming in and he was supposed to have a smaller role, but I just liked him. Him so much in, I found that I just kept adding layers to him. And he wound up having just a major major role in the overall book and I love that kind of discovery their days, I get really anxious because I want, you know, dictate the next chapter because I wanna know what's going to happen next. Dictation is use the dragon or I use dragging dragon I, I have it at home to do that. But actually, they have dragon anywhere which you can have right on your phone. And so I just I have the headphones and the microphone connected to it. And I just pop it on plug in open it up, and it's quite accurate. It does a really nice job. And I can dictate in that I can hit a button and just Email to myself at the end. But it will hold the files in there and do that before you know, over last summer, what I was using it for is if I wanted to squeeze in some words, and, you know, went to the supermarket, I'd say, oh, you know, if you don't need me inside. I'll stay in the car, and I could dictate the chapter and get it out there. If one of my sons was at football practice, I could dictate a chapter, then while they're on the field, and if it came really convenient, and then I thought I've got this forty five minutes. So to and from work each way, and what an easy way to spend the time. And not then not lose the time, once I'm home with the kids and be able to do those things, and then the night comes in after they're in bed and start digging, and again. Yes. Yes, for sure. With four kids that's really maximizes your. You're writing time. Yeah, it's it's been wonderful. Actually having the two older boys on my oldest is in college. My next one's a junior in high school. And then I have a ten in the seven way down lower and the older boys. They've been fantastic, because they're old enough that I, they'll say to me. Oh, tell us about the new book, tell us about this book, what are you doing, and then they're able to give suggestions because they're also you know, as they've gone through school. They've learned more about story and they'll say, oh, it reminds me of this reminds me of that. Oh, maybe you could do this. And I've have gotten ideas from them and I love that. I love that. They want share in that and do that. And then the two youngest, they're very cute because they get a very light version of what I'm writing about, and they care much more about the covers. In the names of the characters. They loved the names. Very cool covers could see why they're all the covers. I got very lucky. I found a woman in New York, who is a graphic designer and she and I just hit it off. She loves the concept of the books, I loved her work, and so we just we keep it contact. And she's so just fantastic to work with because I can ask her to tweak a little of this tweak a little that. And she's just got so much skill. She can go all kinds of directions. The no one's once you, then dictation, do you, then down dollar into like a word or do something else looks Scrivener, or I used script are for a while. And I did like it. The, the problem was when I moved to the dictation, I wound up then just putting them into a word document because I found with my the editor that I use in other editors that have used in the past, they all wanted in where so they could use the correction program, that's built into that they've found that they could you know, use it better than scripture. So I felt like I might as well just put it in there to begin with in right with that. I worried because of the backup system that word has, but with Google docs, and those kind of things I find if I'm just steady about putting a copy of it on Google docs or emailing it to myself and doing those things that I don't have to worry too much that I you know, I'm gonna lose it in. Manuscript. And so what are you working on now right now? I actually I just finished. The final preparations for the new fil book, that's coming out, which is called God's executioner, who title. Yeah. It's, it's a great one. It's of it's kind of kind of links to the modern day of very well. The, the main bad guy in this book is a guy named Mickey Landers, who is supposed to be in his sixties. And he has a history of that he was thought to have been a serial killer. He was not convicted of it. And the main target he had was reporters people in media, and his rant still to current day is that he believes that all media, regardless has a point of view that they're trying to push people in that they no longer. Give straight news. And he was preaching this back in the mid seventies in reported started showing up missing and he, he was the target of it. They never could get anything on him. And then it goes to current day where all of a sudden. He puts out a book called God's executioner, and that was something that they would find at the sites where. These reporters were killed someone would write it on something. And it's basically it was, you know, a book that he isn't exactly saying he did it but he is basically showing that anybody could have, and he just gives these details in his book. And for a guy that hates media and professes that they're, they're so warped in there, so bad. He is on every talk show and he's on everything reporters start showing up missing again. It will they don't show up missing thing that they're not there. He winds a there. There are more deaths more reporters going missing. He's just one of these guys, he's very gamy about when people talk to him about it. He doesn't say he did it but he doesn't say he didn't do it. And Michael flow is basically the, the system is said to him, these judges, we need you to get this guy. We believe we have evidence. That he's done it. And so he is sent to LA to get connected with the sky a in this story. He has a couple of people that have been in previous books, that have helped him work, a guy, white Houston, who's from Texas and another older gentleman who's about seventy years old name. Billy who is the technology was, which I just love that jazz exta position because people always say elderly, folks, don't know anything about this. He's the hacker. He's all that in. He was basically he had flowers job when he was younger and he needed to find a way to stay in the game. And because he just could couldn't live without being part of it. So he becomes that, which is a great thing. Yeah. They go after the sky, and they they're basically trying to get evidence and if they get the evidence to bring him back for trial with these judges. And so it's kind of an e concept because where there's so much talk even right now around, you know, oh, this station is totally right wing. And this one's totally left wing, and this, and that he became lenders talks about that. Well, you know, you get to see some of or rather read some of his interviews that he's doing with people in he, he really could care less. Whether it's right or left or pro this or pro that he just hates that it has any slant. They said he's always just kind of teasing making makes people feel uncomfortable that he. He's dangerous. And but nothing that people can quite nail him on. And he knows he's being watched. But he's very, very bright in how he gets around everything. So it it he was a fun. Character to write to it. It was almost like in my head. I was thinking of the Natural Born Killers that movie all of his stone from years ago, he had a character Mickey, but it was younger Woody Harrelson when he was junior and I'm like, I wonder what would have happened to that guy later in life. And so he that, that kind of character arise where it was. You know, it was just kind of this guy that was on the edge. And he did things and zinc quite care. And, you know, so wound up evolving into this guy, you know, and he became a lot different than the one from the movie, but it was kind of a sparking of that type of guy everytime. We subject matter. Yeah. And you know, people have been saying the press is slanted since the revolution. And so right now of sent it to have went through my editor, and I have a team of readers that proof books for me. And then I'll send it on to buy my final group of readers of got a group of one hundred people that like to read them, and then I asked for their suggestions. What can they just tell me that they like or don't like? You know, does it add to the story is, you know, what, what do you find interesting about it? And as does it, can you read it as a standalone, because I always wanted to that make the books standalone, but also part of the series because lots of people don't start from the beginning. And so they'll come back with some suggestions at the very, very end and possibly, there's, you know, kind of tweaks and small changes to try to get the best book weekend out there. Well hundred you get feedback from a lot of people. Yeah. It really it goes through the hands of about two hundred people. Well you'll get over weld, it, it can get a little overwhelming. But I, I love it one because of all of a sudden, I've got this relationship with all these people to, which is wonderful as someone that likes working with people, and being around people in getting their feedback has been great because a lot of the time, I'll write something, and I know what I mean to say, but they'll. All right. Back and say you know what did this mean or simple things I found a missing period are there. Do you wanna put a comma here? And it just makes something read a little bit better or explain something a little bit better. And if they've just done a great job, it's I, I have no problem, they all get the books free, and you know, but for their time and effort to do those things, and many of them have turned into, you know, virtual friends, we don't see each other ever, but we do exchange emails and, you know, connect on Facebook and all those sorts of things. And it's been great. It's really been great. Yeah. That's a great system got obviously working because you're, you're. Your books. We have a lot of books out there and they're doing incredibly, well, thank you. So before I let you go now for this is that are aspiring writers. Do you have any advice for them? Yeah. Absolutely. Because I was one of you even just six months ago and compared to the big boys, I'm still one in that my biggest problem I had was comparing myself against everybody else. And so I've continually done it where I'd get out there and get in the different groups that I'd say, jeez, if I could only sells many books assists person or that person and what I've learned now kind of getting a little bit to the other side of it, where, you know, now making a decision of whether I want to do this full time that really it's a game against myself. I it is me putting out more books having a consistent schedule for my readers that they, they can see things making. Sure, right, things that are interesting to me, and then. The, the worst for writers is doing your homework. Not just on your book, but also on learning how to get your book in front of other people learning how to. Do ads on Amazon or other places. So that more people can see your books. Is it definitely I said, I've been doing it for four or five years, roughly, and for three and a half to four. Those, it was literally months of maybe making a hundred dollars. So it was just love of writing that whole time loving putting out books and having that. And then things finally just caught on, and it got very big very quick that can happen. And it's happened so many times in with indie publishing now, you really are in control of so much of that. And, and I find just using every resource is great. I love podcasts like this, because I throw him a headphones and I'd go from my daily walk. And I get to listen to other authors, I get to listen to marketing advice and all those kind of things in it just does so much. But it really is a two tier business of the business side, and the writing side, which is always make sure you set that time aside to right? Because that's what we all really love. Yeah. And that's that's, that's a good to hear too, because, you know, sometimes the, the golden age of the Indy is over. And so to see you, you have this success. You know, it's inspiring since cool to hear that they. Yeah. And, and honestly from my perspective and, and talking a lot with the other different, I've reached out a lot to a lot of the very successful, indie writers and a lot of them think like, no, we're, we're still well in front of the fifty percent line. Things are absolutely tougher now than they were before, there's more competition. But I think most people you talk to in the world. They have no idea that there's indie publishing. They think like oh, I've. I've got to get connected to one of the big, big traditional publishing houses. That's the only way you get in and the idea that you could do yourself in some way, is when I say to people, my books are on Amazon, and they'll say, well, you self published how'd you do that they have no idea that Amazon will let people as it's not just books. They'll let you put other products out there. Like if you've got a great idea, you could actually market and put a product on Amazon, and they're stunned by that. The biggest retailer in the world will let people do that. And so, I honestly I think the golden age is still strongly with us because of a and if you're a writer out there you're the one percent that's actually written something. Most people just think of it and then this one's percent that actually do the writing. And then if you can be that next little sliver of one percent that decides they're gonna put it out and do some work by it. You know there's this competition. Listen, but it's not something that's impossible to do by any means in this is coming from a guy that, you know, not that long ago thought it'll just be a hobby and nothing more. And I think about with another go full time. Yeah. Yeah. I it's in that scary for either. It's been working for thirty years, almost, you know, and doing stuff in the idea of, like, wow, I it still stuns me, you know, I pull up the information, the financials and look at all that stuff in, I am continually blown away by the fact that someone just gave me a couple of bucks for my book, you know, in that someone these people aren't there reading it, like, they're, they're reading the words, I wrote like, and I. Right now. I'm like, kind of stammering on my words because it's unreal to me that someone actually is out there doing that. And then someone says their fan and it's like I don't have fans domes. I don't have fans you know, I, I still guy out and shoveled my driveway when it snows out. You know, like I'm not the guy that has fans. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's been just a great experience. You know, to Indy writing, again is one of the few things where with Email and the internet, what we have a writer can have such direct contact with his readers than it's fantastic. It's you get to really know the people and hear their stories and hear what they like and don't like, and I have one gentleman, who he said he has a leftist bed and ten years due to an injury. He loves reading about Michael fellow IRRI, actually. He's this guy's going to wonderful sense of humor. And he says, I love reading about a guy that's most. Screwed up. The me. And I love that. I said that, you know, I, I should use that ad or something screwed up in USA. Read about them. That's that's amazing to hear that the Hyun that from readers civil let's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And the, the, the people that, you know, the idea that, you know, I heard from many people that, you know, well, you know, TV's taken over and all those things there's a lot of people out there still just love reading a book. I'm amazed by the number of people to that get print copies. The, the they love that tactile feeling that book in their hand, as opposed to just all kindle and, and those sorts of things. So it's great, I think reading is alive, and well, and if you can tell good story, that's what people want they, I don't think that I am by any means going to write the next great American novel. I just I tell stories of people like to hear and that they're fun. And they're exciting. And that, that makes me happier than anything that people enjoyed I love when people say, you know, you know, go, thanks a lot. You kept me up till two am. You know, you, you know, you keep writing these chapters that are like two thousand words and I go, I can do another one. I can do. I love it. You know what a great compliment. It's give you saying they stayed up to read, what you wrote, it's thrilling. And then, so for this is that they can find you on as Michael writes dot com. Website. All right. I'll and have Lixin it not on the website as well. But the might gums rights dot com. Mike, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast is a lot of fun talking to you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for listening to meet the author broadcast, be sure to visit through authors dot com to join the conversation access the show notes and discover great thrilling read, if he'd rather podcast, I left for you to subscribe rate and give a review. Oh to it wherever it is that you're listening to this podcast. I two apple podcast Google podcast. Stitcher, Tuden Spotify. However, it is that you're listen to this right now, I would be it. And these to check out my own filler novels over my website at Alan Peterson dot com. That's next time.