The LP Perspective: Alex Bangash


everybody torbert cofounder partner village global network driven venture firms and this is richard stories podcast covering topics related to tech business with world leading experts hey everybody welcome to another episode of ventura stories village global i'm here today with alex ben gash of trusted insight alex welcome to the podcast thank you for having me attic and we're here to continue are a series of lp's and how the business works out why do you give a introduction to trusted insight as well is your background and how you became to be an lp in the first place so let me give you my background a i'm an engineer by background spent ten years that labs india i'm good at ems department and then i embarked on a uptick networking company which happened to be at the wrong time in wrong place a and then a thought maybe gee it's probably better to build a portfolio and not their market risk but no mp you know we see all of my mom was hiding at that time a an so instead of jumping into the vc world i jumped into the snp was in kind of a hell of a mp's belair portfolios and then kind of i you know i guess wrong you know right time right place in got ridiculously lucky to you know to work at the very beginning what folks like in howie a in save when they when they found it founder spawned a super out a meat shove and he founded a crush on gosh when he saw founded xl india and a you know a so many many i climbed getty ten an accident wanian are struggle when they work at y c so you know literally at the founding of those funds and then also had you know a early investors in firstround in founders case baseline self and then later sastre yeah and now now soft and a few others so when you got in the business how have you seen the business of all since when you first got into says macro perspective opie world firm when you first started when you first early two thousand yeah yeah yeah so that's like you know i think two thousand feet so i just kind of telling you about my you know maybe a little about myself and how i look at it so i'm always in outside so i'm kind of like a d a b outside of insider and i always always 'em even now bet on the underdogs in against incumbent like i'm always fascinated by the disruptor right so i'm never rooting for 'em you know what they call a sustaining innovation i'm single who is gonna come in and disrupt the incumbent incumbents so you know right from the beginning you know some of the folks that i worked at work and in the very beginning they were disrupting the models that had been a dead in the past you know and they started by being founders and of course firstround decided by being very founder friendly you know in a common theme of all these bumps if you don't get it why see andriessen firstround that on on trip on your lead funds right so initially this this and i like to say say this is like you know in every other asset class his stuff a manager picks the security you basically are picking managers or based on their a security selection scale in venture inverted but it it's a it's a security that's electing the manager i entered extent the manager is us selected you know they can do this election so you can pick what's up what's up picks a quick to the exclusion of everybody else so that's you know so that's kind of you know what i saw initially but then they're being waves you know so it's funny i mean those those waves i think the biggest the biggest change which is actually thinking this it's kind of started at at the same time and i think they've been many fundamentally fundamental structural change but the single biggest biggest thing that has happened is the costa stock of a coming down right so all of a sudden a the first and second order effect of that is that venture now is become or entrepreneurship has me next accent is accessible to everybody end it's accessible globally and that's q given rise to a kimber an explosion and i'll startups like that just coming from a romania in spotify is coming from stockholm and even though you know i you and i are sitting here in san francisco and we could see this is the center of the universe but actually it isn't trade tedium wasn't invented hit an blockchain's wasn't it you know so in some of the coolest things are gonna be developed so so so i think that's what's the what's the underlying a change to and if if we had the compare with someone like michael chemists and donna who's you know focus is on you know microphones with very concentrated portfolios in different sectors i believe how would you compare contrast how you're if you differentiate from from that there other lp's would you say so so i really don't look at myself as an mp so i'm not gonna i first of all i don't know anything about his his his his of things so i would not be so i am looking would not for funds i'm looking for things that disrupt venture right so in some sense a you know perhaps this goes back to my training as a computer scientists you know my my first job was like how how do i you know kind of eliminate my sense whatever whatever a you know i i think the first job that i had on the manufacturing flawed my boss gave me this assignment and he said okay make this a it was a computer manufacturing line he said optimize this manufacturing languished spending two our spilling micro computer and by the time i finished with a lightning six months it was taking about eleven minutes to build the whole micro computer including the test and so the people come up to me and say what i you don't you know you are completely eliminating jobs so i think i look at it the same way i think we should eliminate the rolled off the vc souls things that i'm most interested for instance on platforms bombs a f b i based funds in actually studios so all in all three of those they're taking advantage of structural changes in venture capital so any you know a good point and i wouldn't one compare myself with any be you know mp or vc but i think most of industry is around centered around this myth that there are good pickers okay and that these good pickers on now a you know they they are in certain necklace sucks all that in certain oh they are a you know they had their apprentice by certain people and they become where they would pick ups and good example of that you know peter fenton is a great pick at all x y z is you know fair housing is a great pick and there was some some some of the past generations that was true it also has to do with the brand effect right so there was a you know a benchmark which the brandon graham off which the brandon and and through that ben hippo there were able to get the best of the best thing but today the structural advantage has all but disappeared you know any saw anachronistic it's like when somebody comes in in almost you know ten people a week which me they say addicks i want to build the next benchmark and you know you know i i almost cringe that's like saying addicks i want to build the next year or next jc penney right you wanna believe you should build the next amazon you should build the next i see a the next angel list so i think i think that this you are increasingly going to see there is no next david swinson the next david swinson is a new network but i the knicks peter fenton they just know peter fenton by see right there is no one everybody is replaceable in icy everybody's replaceable and entrepreneur first tried it is a it is a machine in an similarly you know so i believe in structural changes and i believe in in disruption so i think all of these people and you could name npr after the nps after n p m piece that access vc's said access i want to disrupt access i am saying i want to democratize access to black farms elena democratize access to direct access to entrepreneurs and that's what students studios so you know we could go we could go deep deep into that i want to reverse already burn platform studios driven opportunities but first i wanna continue these sort of historical trends so founders fund first round sort of had this you know we sort of tickets right now we've found a friendly with new at the time yeah i mean yeah there there is a you know sean pokka was i i think he's probably one of the most creative person some people i've worked with when he came up with that shit like an you know which is like taking a peek people giving people founders some liquidity so that they could go for the home button i n a n now it's so common but at that time a you know a necklace sack religious you know that was a man so what changed structurally that made it less about picking an more about the platform was it just the influx of capital and now entrepreneurs could choose from a whole set of affirms there i you know i think that many many many factors but single the single most important factor is just a costa starting something like that that feeling it's like when you go to why see demo day right and they wouldn't be they'll probably a dropbox there this time just some great company but you know how are you going to pick that two hundred and fifty of those companies tonight an it doesn't matter they might be in a different sectors it might be in a different job might be threatened like on one of his most recent companies and he's wasn't happy you know andrew resident i'd rather go yeah so you're you're doing we don't yet know if there's more startups when picking ability even more important no because you can't you know it's not humanly possible to process that's the point i mean how would you have found you like that right i mean two of the best funds to day out i'm not gonna name right there is some that are in china there's some there's some that are actually in europe people don't know right in the last three years and it's just depends on where the next big thing is coming from so unless you've been a platform right you i'm catching a you know a you know a broad enough swat swat at least at the early stage ended up and the biggest change that has happened i mean take your top twenty five and i sixty out of the top twenty from all over two billion dollars two billion dollars right so you tell me that looks more like five minutes which to me that doesn't look like early venture capital and that's when when paradoxically the costa starting companies has gone down right so what could happen any such i think they will find they would they would they would they would do great private equity likely tonight a so you know those those those that are intellectually honest you know let mp's that look we will get you went to like be done if we find the next google or facebook or two but ryan an abiding that you know even a decade con doesn't get them you know if you're getting two billion even a con doesn't get your ten x five out of five x fund right in get your tree explained if you're lucky yeah so we talked about you know pot farms but you invest in first round which is about more about a baseline is more a sort of but that time in and look i mean a lower case was yeah you know i mean i remember i'm visiting with chris second one sixty one sixty four southbound pod a he at that time on a hundred and twenty three oh one one point two million twitter followers so it's not you know it wasn't happenstance that that that a he he did a a a instagram and but in a you know saw kevin system travis everybody wanted chris because he was the influence influence in in in fact checking han who's a a you know i was the first a spotify business development person who came came here you know he's the first person he wanted to meet us chris because chris was the influence of influencers to sort of bring bring spotify to the u s a so i think that's you had created you know we created a special advantage for themselves but you have to understand stand that was a point in time right so so today to be i think there is and that's what you've seen there is no dominant to put in jail today find it was a point in time an end that point is spots it doesn't matter how you know big because you know you know unless you something like jason lincoln has a built and sas or unless you know in in cloud infrastructure you know just a and so you know you you're not going to be as decided to everybody across the board it's much more either sector focus sergio focus on exactly exactly who specialize in it's just you know a just and then now that are you know whereas at that time they were you know tens of these folks now that are literally thousands not just not even just hundreds you know in now with more liquidity at it'd be it'd be a new but there's gonna be it's gonna add to those and so when did you see that rise of platforms happening you had lower case based on first round michael hearing it cetera when did you see sort of the first pot farms emerging when i see you know i mean you know actually took me three forty years to get to a you know meet gaddi in an alexa send you know one of the things that we see now there's more attention to and when women but those of you who are astute a history buffs of venture capital know that why she was actually a jessica livingston's idea so so i got to meet for a couple of times but i could never engage with them so i actually ended up engaging with jessica and then jessica introduced me to hug general access and then and then you know and then gaddi and then getting eliminated you know make things happen and so it's very lucky to be really early involved but i took me like two years to get to it so but still i was still way earlier you know that's two thousand eleven so are you know but i mean even then i i think the first you know among my friend a decent friedman men from forty two floors had connected me i actually told me he goes like very emphatic he's like addicks it's almost like you know these these black from effects 'em you know these things are almost like they're like you know there's religions there scott this college and you know these these things almost like that in by season and like that you know end jason jason said when alex you know by sea is deep thing and you know i he had he had done fight cast at and then he introduced me james linden bomb and then james this is two thousand ten and james us up you know i still think up and you know i'm very lucky to be involved with heavy bit as well as an dog you know saw a you know at that time i mean he bit then iconic cloud infrastructure company in hedo cool i end you know so james was actually my conviction was like yeah by she's gonna be daily big headache who's gonna be daily big and i actually is i think you know even machine learning will be delivered way p i and that's also informs my thesis of hp ibis yeah and so what did why see bring to innovation they really brought sort of the the platform ecosystem that you could do venture differently they do it in a batch model that you could get outside conomic so you could have network affects yeah all of those like all of those right and i think i think also you know so i also believe that a in all these things you need missionaries like there are so many machetes and people talk of psychopaths and motion that he's in business right even though i think on a relative business i think all business you know bc is much more benign in a minute and say hedge funds and you kind of private equity a but but still you know there are cases an and i think it's i think it's a missionary that released early when so i i think i've been very lucky to work with those for folks that really take a very long time an annex actually a you know those of you who have you of that clayton christianson so what work on on disruption and that's it's not just you know it's not just a long time in terms of kind of long term thinking but also a kind of a a poop putting just focus on these my you know quick return on investment right on i eighty dollars on on a you know quick quick a team building something for for the long term and that's why you know and that's what i think a white few israeli a yeah i was talking to someone who is that's koya i was involved when they were doing this sort of brother and they're saying hey you know there's sort of saying this you know kindly but they're saying hey you know sequoia helped urban be a significantly longer then why is he did by you know everybody went twenty three months and then sequoia investigators on the board an continued that relationship for ten years and yet when they when they're being be founders talk about who's been helpful they often say why see or the first name that comes out his wife see and it just shows the power of believing in someone when no one else believes in that erbil being first and putting someone in business the end of the of the power of you know as good as the koya a you know was for them sort of powerful experience and community she said about religion a cult that why see created that given not only undo economics but also undo to undo but the extra sort of credit in some sense that a allow the next and you know the the network affect happened over everybody's drive all these companies being like why see how make me what i am today and i'm grateful to white sea which then spread the next generation so exactly exactly and i think it's and i'm just mentioned in the last two months i make to very well funded startups andover one is a former vice year once not twice but he's he's lost a company who is not a cold front and maybe use it like a co founder and in that both of them mentioned it's like oh well you know we don't need by seaport fundraising but we wanna go for the the neck wyckoff founders day weekend so i think it's a you know it's really amazing i mean yeah i think you know entrepreneurial when your first isn't on on a different trajectory also i think the best funds the most authentic fines right so you know if you look at the copycat models they've always fares they've never they've never even we reached a you know one ten the the and i'm not gonna name the things but anyone who has tried to copy it i i want to be the next angeles i'm gonna be the next you know that's why like yes is so authentic they're doing what by sea is not doing right which is matching founders now many people are trying to copy f but they have so far ahead and then slightest in their dna like it's not that long copying somebody they solve that problem and if they they solved it right and it's the same like we'd like you to what would just send them again again he's like so authentic right it's like no one questions that you know jason really cares about his community in really cares about the founders right in in and similarly with gaddi and that's one of the reasons you know after a wise you know what happens with more most mp land is you stock butting heads like when you invest in much people find mistakes are competing with each other they stopped right but i think one of the reasons why i like the student model is because the studios don't compete with each other that that each each is investing around the so let's talk about the duty of model talk a little bit of how the studio model has evolved and where you see it now what's really amazing about the studio model is a you know for the first time ever you know it is giving this you know and you talked about you know where the vice yet everybody adds value right good people add value add value i see edge value but actually and i think for free person who's been who's been a i you know i said this public he'll be when i know this of course is most pc detract you're right they don't add value and if you if you look at it now honestly it's going to open your eyes that are adding that you know but on the financial benefit site the species have a portfolio right that's why they want people shouldn't for the fences they have a portfolio a piece of a portfolio but why is it that the you know entrepreneurs contact portfolio would actually you know if you look at it we're now at a time where you know some of the you know some of the best ideas had come by 'em you know folks you know a a lawn musk a jeff bezos a max left gene you know at the garden have you can get it firm who but right they get it but scuba while he was working on a stumbled upon right and i think travis wasn't even involved in the first year or so right in most of these successful founders they have many many ideas but i and once they have the wherewithal and once we have that adapt i think deacon definitely do you know more more things so i think in some in some sense you know the reason why studios are so important now and i'm i'm gonna take more from the entrepreneurs perspective right so i don't think a studio an operator that's never run a company can build a studio right so i think that's why i think the studio is if you have an amazing facing founder if you're up in amazing founder that found that can surround themselves with many other co founders and build a shared a infrastructure and then build up build up a you know build a portfolio of companies in in some sense it completely completely disrupt stranger because you know now you don't you're not going to dc to build a portfolio you're going to you know you're going to and entrepreneurs are to build a portfolio and then what is also an amazing is is that a trip on your done correctly i think in many of these new studios on their front which which conflicts of interest but if done correctly you know you're able to get a a great great alignment of interest between mp's in the founders you know you're also able to get much much higher upside both for the founders and for their peace and by the way the vc is don't get completely replaced placed the vc's get displaced and which is great for them because the vc's have no a you know a lot of it all the top issues they have multibillion dollar fund they want a two million dollar checks and ten million dollar checks they want i fifty or a hundred million dollar check so they just come in data and you know the mp's get to work directly with the suit ways you can disrupt a venture platforms studios a if you did is you mentioned there three different generations once again what i didn't answer that question yeah so i think i i think the evolution has been you know i think the studios initially started wet more a consumer like modern and a you know a very good example is or what the brothers did what rocket into the internet they would never take you know any business model risk they just say oh if this were any ryan you s but in you're acting i think groupon in salon go and and then they've done those much deeper geography is they've been you know base very a very successful which which some of them a somewhat the models and so i think that was kind of the first wave in berlin which had been without december brothers you know so that was kind of the first wave of course there is a you know a in the dot com media that was even i i you know something a preceding act would wear a a idea labs a where bill gross and even trench at howard morgan in other work but what's actually happening right now and that wasn't you know and then kind of the second the second wave was more on this the more kind of team matic's studios that that we we saw a come up and that includes a like beta works in an ad thought in science and others and you know they've had new daily good success this science science has you know has already had a billion dollar exit dollar shave club and a mammoth is doing really well of course not you know you can't lump all of them them together i think the the second wave off startups they got really good at distribution so i think if you look at you know i i think i am a comic is i think probably a really good example is like a mixed property the you know the best studio that a in distribution it could very well become the very best venture funding you know because it's it's all distribution distribution distribution so everyone off their companies is you know there's a long line of refused looking to invest in companies i think the third wave that we're seeing a copycat copycat distribution and then and then i can't the third way we're seeing is a building intellectual property so on so as you know you have this renaissance of deep decks for the first time whether it's confrontational biology eri that's becoming relevant across so many industries right it's not just autonomous driving a medicine at cetera of farming so you can now stockpiling i p at the studios of an end using shared algorithms and share data sets an actually a walk across different companies so i think that something which is very nascent a but also very very exciting so i think that will be the third wave and i think those will be you know so i think that's that's kind of something which is now giving you know it's again you're getting direct access to the entrepreneurs right i mean if you look at it on somebody said jeff bezos is you know one of the best advocators of of you any is like i mean he he ws which had nothing to do with where where his ecommerce business into one of the biggest cloud infrastructure companies and i it's a it's bigger than stand for us officers on a opportunities so what is your opportunity there in what might that look like so i'm you know i get like a hundred i've been pitched a hundred machine learning funds and actually i don't think that that's interesting because they're so obvious right and it's like oh i sit front of a a you know sitting in front of a screaming and boom you know empire scrape x y z a now this dogs and a you know different and it tells me which the best company is i think i think it's too hard right i think the real a real treat to day every company is based on a tech stack i think if you can measure the activity at each point on that next act for instance and i've taken simplistic example for instance who is built on google maps a a queer leo a stripe and at a segment and now in tom so if you could measure activity dan at each one of those levels than you would be able to ten which which startup is taking off in a you know there's a stall famous story of how whatsapp got funded rights whatsapp was actually discovered by andy andy rubin when he was because it was a fun you know it was the most downloaded app on android and he actually had the good corporate development chased him down and you know try to buy them a you know they're giving my thinking when a sudden they gave him a hundred million dollar offer and then watch sap turned around and and you know a so that's how what's apple is discovered and i think that's how most new apps that's why i think picking is now that's relevant right you the discovery will be with these through so if i think at one point gb said they they were using google analytics but i don't know whether they're still or at least they don't say publicly you know whether it ws stripe could measure they would be better pickers than anyone by so so i think i think now you know we're trying to find those companies who who's kp eyes are being used to build the next generation products yeah let's let's go back to the platforms permit so i'll give my sort of outsiders brief history of a then i want you to correct mirror added to it so we sort of first round that generation offered you know platform as community and dnc inferring with sort of extensive platform team in in services a sort of injuries in which the scale that out to you know ten x that in terms of size and you know not just you know not just round talent borgen i'll be with customers were helping serve every element of your business sort of like cia for a vc addition you'd y c we should have had a different structural advantage in terms of the batch terms of the cost a set offer and in terms of network effects that they built on top of that and then you had i'm going out of order here but social capital which tried to do a multi stage a multi asset andriessen also doing that well now bio in crypto on a different angle platforms angel list which i did do it more democratize asset class i wanna hear you're you're thoughts of that and then a single fire which is them and a few others have tried to do more data driven approach to picking selection and support supporting is that a fair summary of what did i miss her what would you added to that that summary of sort of the last decade or so platforms nbc yeah i think you know i i think i i think you're missing one of the biggest one which is entrepreneurial at first you know so i think he i think there's probably a small twist to it tried so i think you can beloved community and you converted inequity facts i think also you know like in the past we saw the paper mosque yeah that's why most people are now looking for the mafia and i think that's a that's a food at and as well because those mafias now have been replaced by these platforms that much stronger the network effects that are stronger than affiliation that you feel to any particular company right i think what kind of a i don't think you've missed a lot i would probably have strong opinions probably disagree with a few of the people that you mentioned on add a couple of a couple of those 'em but they're all really good people and all innovative i think i think it's it's one is the structure innovation and the second thing which is as important is the you know is the investment mousetrap but i saw the innovation in y c you is not on not not that they they made a class and but they were able to get seven percent of equity of heavy company that will see innovation i so i think i just building a platform and giving services and all those things don't what could be also don't build up better mousetrap right so 'em i think the same you were seeing the same kind of innovation in studios the same kind of that is now a structural show let's go through a few of those arms as one is why see we talked about a bit and he is understanding to your point about you know sort of warren buffett has lied about franchise where you know you know franchise franchise where even the team with poor management management a cane run it and it'll still be great and of course writes his team is super great but they did just lose salmon and it seems like it's business as usual why would they they they nonsense amazon sounds amazing an insult conceivable amazing i get a lot of amazing people but you know a paul good amazon means you turn off all laminate a loser i raised a benchmark lost bill girly today looks like that would that'd be pretty big when you said it yeah so everybody in the series analogy implies everything's out of heroin event that they might be gone in twenty years is so what's the funding for the fundamental issue is the end this structure a structural change so another thing is like if the water so noisy and the style plus so hard to pick initially on this this the the benchmark model just knock wood because you can only be on twenty boards ryan you can only be twelve boards in two continents max right you can't be in boston for continents i i'm not saying that i'm saying because benchmark is a great fun right so and then also you're not structurally you know i mean many we see from straight to work with spicy it i buddies was like drinking from a fire hose i just how do you process so many startups yukon meets almost startups you can't you know so i think i think that's why it's so important to a you know a so some of these these older from like sitting on boards and having having a few people doing a few you know investing feel ford investments i'm in the end they're you know they're dead ball low determining how many in some steak and making it yeah and so when you look out at something like a kleiner you know sort of with the rebuild they've had do you sort of say hey new people but same old stretch same old thing and you know i think you know mom loons doing a great job you know in a moment nearly a fantastic investors and i think think that they would do a you know they do amazing things right out of the back they've done fantastic things so i think a you know it's not fair to just pick on one from an think i i just think it's you know it's like saying a nordstrom continue to do whether a or will when you know or would they overtake amazon right it's just like comparing apples to oranges i think they're these new models i like a soon nami right so they are just going to wash everything away it's almost like a win win it's like no come patas i so if you a if whoever was you know it'd be in charge charge of kleiner in terms of the rebuild if he came to you and said hey alex what should we do it'd be relevant in the next decade of venture a you know we have this amazing brand you know we gotta rebuild their staff will say that i think i think that relevant in i mean you know this is also on you know i wanna i wanna just wanna make sure that you know look i love all these funds i doubt old friends of mine and i wanna make sure that you know i end up peter tia love to say this is like you know competition is pro losers right so why see never competed but sequoia i firstround in compete in union square right they do all so most of the in and what's even more excited excited like entrepreneur first doesn't compete but why see right so it's almost all these models desks authentically they don't compete and that's the thing so in in that cdc space it's the same old player that's why some people say what a what i asked ventures not changing used to be stuck with great benchmark and it's been sick oregon benchmark except you know saint saint louis it's because an based on whatever i met my morning the new plano team they do great right i'm just saying at winchester so much bigger now right so it's just increasing its increasing the pie it's not it's not so much they're competing with them that a and then those funds are now you know as i said now most of the model right but if you said hey we wanna find an area where the next fifty years will be defensible when we wanna compete with anybody what would what would you say look a studio look at a platform i mean that's the thing is like like a platform is incredibly hard to bet it's just i mean how many people can build up i see you know the simply how many people you could build an amazon right it's like it's incredibly hard a you know an and you know i have so many so many vc's come at them as like addicks a studio is the worst idea on the planet because just one start up is so hard to bed you're gonna be ten startups of five south right in a start with all the ways you've all into one great company forget one breakout company or just you know collapse into that one a great company like of course that's the defensibility it i like nobody in their right mind would have been the studio because it's hard enough building one company right it's like you know like like elon musk save this like chewing laughing standing in the abyss like ten for dolan rights so where would the next why see come from over the next e f come from very talented people say hey alex you know i'm i'm the start platform and so authentic it will look nothing like the same right and i've seen you know i'm a con name names but i've seen people come to me and say well how do i have on building these new platform and has angel list in it why cnn has you know x so i think you know angry senate in all rolled into one and you know they gave up they give up off just after six months but i because actually it takes a lot of the commitment that goes back to the missionaries fine so the people what actually doing this you know and doing it the way i mean they are super driven in their dick right i mean the amount of content in you know kind of what a i'm like for instance jason lumpkin does all you know what gatty gang does what would start ups i mean you could pay people to you know to to do that you know until you have someone like why see that you know loss program years ago now loss amazon has mike one of the great team ten years from now do you think why see is as powerful as it is today do you think accelerators are as big as they are today will there be competitors twice so you're doing the same thing so also you know and that's a very very good question and i think a you know i think just spicy get stronger and stronger i mean what i as you know and this goes back to the disruption duty people never get disrupted now is a you know a from above right so i suck way is not gonna just apply see a benchmark is not gonna decide they get stuffed from beto light so if you look at detroit a you know a trio down now we have lex us and stuffed yoda was the worst bad right and they they came in they came in from below below and they disrupted detroit now they've been disrupted by cody ends which again was the yeah and you know there's always there's all this disruption but you know i think i think why she has such momentum of very good a scenario is i think why she would continue to be dominant in this space right on the space that that they have you know there might be other spaces and i know which which will you know where where there might be dominant dominant players and i think a continuity will be successful and do you think why see should should create a series they fund is well on the entire stock no i think by seattle continuity is already successful so i think that you know a they have amazing things obviously be asleep there is a there is a thing like if a if why see there's a hundred million billion dollar fund like my son did then maybe they shouldn't be just also stack right but i think that current model depends on you know them not participating debating in at least second rounds for the reason of signaling there's always ways in which you could you could imagine the raising that much amount of money and being softbank proceed basically all all seats to see through a giants beat so let's talk about angel list what sort of the promise of angel list and what do you think we've learned about sort of data driven or you know technology driven venture investing i i think look i think now why is one of the smartest most innovative people am at an office a generation of investors honky court so many things things right in injury list is being sold massive t a m influential in space and also so angeles alumni as what i think a you know a is just kind of an engineer and the injury list is also volving so they'll send you the one dollar dough and then to doctor over syndicates and dennis new feet out over that funds and stuff so it's you it's still an ongoing story i think that the you know we have yet to see a rehab jet to see the most dominant version of kind of a data driven think i think there is no a no disrespect to anything out that nothing has kind of you know we're probably that's another eighty of disruption i don't think it'd be kind of quote unquote machine learning driven i think it'd be kind of a mvp i driven and vip eyes and estee case but as you know there's a very very fine line i mean there's some people who might try to do it and there's so much issue about privacy in a start ups are incredibly private so so if startups find out that x y and z is using you know their data for something that was not meant to be right i think it would be a you know there were a a so it it has to be done in the right manner but i think i think that's that's going to be the data driven approach and i don't think anybody's is working on it you know and again if that's because a super super hot so so that's that goes back to you know why i like entrepreneurial at funds because you know entrepreneurs in black phones not macy's on tipping your skin studios we sees an entrepreneur your skin believe based funds not feces i i like the framing why couldn't 'em sequoia or another firm have tried to build why see that it's it's the same thing like why why why didn't why didn't you know i have this on this mental image i have this mental image that there's a there's a book called using the signal high end it's about black betty or research in motion and and the founder of a black i mean he is but he's a brilliant guy you know 'em knitting so and you know black but he also innovative and they were always evil lucien that he never never revolution so they always an instead of going to ford forty they went to three g i instead of like you know they always did but they did that i think right and so you know they always comes of bandwidth and they they they they stole when he first saw and i phone he said you know it's gonna be a disaster is going to be it's going to hog all every a hog everything a hog all the bandwidth in he using engineer of course in disassembled the i phone when he first got it and he was aghast he you said they've put the mac into a fun night and it's it's this it's this thing where you do the unthinkable i you do something revolutionary so i think i think that's that's what's needed is doing doing something something think about i end when when you look at when you look at why seat right i mean where would never do that because think about like you mean you mean just like hired people with six minute interview is you the company's after knocked on the board and just give him money and then see have meet with them for office august what you know so it's it's on thinkable for you know and they do shit is indem they know that they're very good at what they do right so goes back to the physicist right so they almost they say you know whenever i knew a period is as spout they say they'll they'll the older generation of the physicist almost have to die before you know it's that that did it becomes commonplace so it's you know it's the same thing it's a it's a you know it's kinda sacrilegious say some of these things that you know that the new models i'm curious what else do we think he's gonna change the next decade x five teams looking adventure you know we had a cure boy on on the podcast and you you people were joking the desert of the kevin durant's lebron james going to the lakers comes right out of the warriors any even dubious would there would be sort of a more of a free agent like approached venture capital what is your what is your take on on whether partners will move more friction leslie i i think became were mad at us i so i i think stars matter less i think now the opportunity is a to change the game but i just so if someone is playing thank basketball you start playing you come in with a tennis racket so that's what i'm looking for the people who are coming in with a tennis racket to the basketball game ended up changing the game so what do you think about scout ponds and scouts in general i i i think i think that's the worst idea i've ever seen a hand shurmur and i think a a so that can deliver opinionated i think a you know one is i think a lot of extensive models bottom i think most of the extensive models can be done very poorly and so i think in these in these scott funds and actually they've been around if you go that heading off me about a scout fund that jobs ever did in two thousand six okay so they've been around for a long time and i said it was a good idea and so it took me a few years to learn a that i think in in in the scout funds your your actually outsourcing you know other things so basic your disrupting unless unless you could build your own band to do that right you'll have you'll have your own proprietary bad it's just like if banana republic have three different brands or gap have three different brands for three different segments it's the same thing if you could have you know a us a seed funded by the band for a seed see banned for any you know otherwise if you're outsourcing it you know you you you just losing eleven you start moving up it's the same and then you get disrupted it from somebody that's actually closer to the entrepreneurs you know so what would you say when you think about is acquired scout program and it's been successful and found a i think a quiz and amazing fun right and suck well i you know a you know hats off to them they have reinvented themselves and they have stayed rather tried so i think in this segment 'em they have a jet just generally you know the idea of scott funds now i don't know whether whether it's had pulled a dog because most of the time the founders get confused as well first of all they're not getting the headed from those funds right so if you have a hundred k or at two hundred k from just pick you up top off of fun but i i as a founder you'll really disappointed because you're not getting the hitler right and then they don't leave your cd's day then nobody wants to touch it like a x y z is an investor they're not giving you a attempts what's wrong with you right well no no no they will do that pro now okay do we do that throw it out i but i get to be the why am i the lucky one right so so i think i that's why i think it's a i mean there's less and less of that a you know because now again it's noisy but i i think you know the x extensive models are really really hard to put a tank i'm much more interested in the intensive models so i think like the studio modeled on more intensive models what's the difference in extensive and intensive when you know scott mandala platform i extensive models in the studio is an intense monica you yourself have thought about how technology not only changes bc but also changes lp world where were the latest there you know is there an angel list pretty opie world or like what is sort of a technology looked like to disruptor or change how lp's do business was english i think that's what we're building is and i kind i wouldn't call it in you know in you know it's not x y it's i think we're building something female centric a an a it's it's both a a real change is when you do you bring bullets prophecies as well as a technology to hit the a plus business processes right so it's as much of a process change as well as some you know so so that's that's kind of that's kind of what what what we're doing and where you're trying to build a social network as it a actually it's not a knock the social network is just kind of one of the tip of the iceberg a but actually were building a you know a workload tools for employees to help them 'em you know to radically 'em simplify on their investment process yeah it is if you saw sort of this 'em the change in terms of venture capitalist being much more transparent much more open much more direct do predictable see a similar changing lp world right now awesome people don't even know who he lp's are we don't hear from them directly do you think you'll see much more transparency that world they're not really just different i think probably not you know i think a loss and and i think this we've seen this again and again and again i see this a one of those people who don't know this word they always think right this is the night night day which was at peace need to be transparent and venture needs to have liquidity quality that's why i'm gonna i'm going i'm going to allow people to when the reason why institutional investors invest in ventura it is because they don't they don't want the volatility of the public markets down they want things that are uncoordinated right so tomorrow we have you know in the in the trade war with china escalates or growth rates that are you know they they steal a lot of people and you know 'em in the markets are down by thirty percent forty percent you know your your a you know the companies that have gone you know having gone public the instant pot is not suddenly gonna be at two billion dollars right so that's why mp's invest and venture because they don't want things to be correlated what went down with the public markets so i think that's a kind of fundamental disconnect people's knows i want peace to have liquidity a or b she used to have to be she is endemic peas they don't want liquidity they don't want you know they want a new one or two times what they have equality but they don't want blessed that mocked lock it would with the public right is it worth mentioning starting just running back row like like the rise of the fund a fun fun fun done very well when did they start becoming saying yeah i you know i think like a fundamentally a fundamental very flawed model again you know so if you look at it 'em fund of funds have a some really fundamental issues with them aid have fees on fees be 'em they are way over diversified a an three kinda date and you know most of the traditional model has been built on this this notion of selling access right 'em so i think those two three things make it you know if you look back to of course has some some people that have been around for a long time they're amazing organizations but if you basically go to the loss few downturns light maybe fifty percent of feces i'll go out of business but seventy percent of the funds go out of business you know so i think that much more susceptible to kenny ups and downs do you think that some people said that the future of venture capital sort of these multiasset firms that you've in not just multistage but a few injuries as general fund they've bio finding a crypto fund a menu at you know sort of capital obviously a different issues of its own but you're you're doing not only different stages nbc but also public catch up on what's yours comment on so so i think and i think this this and this goes back to 'em so if you'll just project where we are and then this is probably very controversial but if you look at some of the largest asset management from day to day right you look at black rock and blackstone in in in others apollo it caught they they were under a you know a few different waves particularly private equity in a u t f sent kind of index funds at and so i think the double you know a they will be just like myself who son created a you know a hundred billion dollar fund i think even though a you know there's a lot of you know kind of kind of mud disbelief that this this would work i think you'll probably see more and more of those you know so i i think there more big tech companies now i think that trend is just going to continue on and then he's gonna be larger and larger so i think the opportunity set for thursday increasing that's why you know yeah the you know even like we talked about the the the funds you know why did they might get disrupted from one one space they will still continue knew it'd be some a mighty mighty asset funds within a within technology right so they'd be the pool is getting larger and there's some people are bearish on on the future of the class because of things like one you know the the big four big five not getting weaker anytime soon or or things like crypto which you know if if they take all the value there you may not that may not be interesting i i give you like giving an example example you know you you think the big ford are dominant in nineteen twenty nine eighteen t was a twenty nine percent of the public market in nineteen seventy two and you know people say well amazon six percent the nasdaq in nineteen seventy two i b m with twenty percent off and nasdaq i will say well what jeff bezos is very rich a a an andrew carnegie was a in today's dollars stump would have been four hundred which what four hundred billion got us right so people have been the relative dominance of these sons has actually been decreasing right so you know it was fifteen years ago there was no facebook's right fifteen years ago there was no why see so you're telling me there's a in fifteen years from now we will have sequoia in in in benchmark and no other funds oh there's gonna be an end there's gonna be no from competing with amazon know from from competing what would without but i think that'd be amazing new forms of just like just as i said and they'd be amazing new entrepreneurs they will be you know they will be another elon musk and there would be another jeff bezos and another steve jobs and hopefully he would have a studio how should we if we should think about a softbank or just more late stage private capital on what is it mean for public markets i do think that will change the next five years with that trend only only get deeper or that shift where people start going public earlier i think and you know i i think billy bemoans on this background cycle which company should just go public early and i think going public is a particular skill an amazing entrepreneurs like kevin hart's has taken to companies to to public i was the only one i see i mean how many there twenty four hundred companies that one has gone public so far right or maybe two now a two hundred page of duty end a a pitcher duty and dropbox so so it's you know i think it's a it's a it's a scale end up now you know it's so much harder to go public you know that's that's definitely changed the name but that's why the portfolios photos are changing and i think i think i don't see a you know 'em i don't see that changing anytime soon so we could see in fact i i you know i don't have the numbers off top of my head but i think the number of kind of mid mid cap stocks like i have i have hopped in the last ten fifteen years and a number of fucking companies is a you know decreasing so i think that train a trend would probably you know will probably continue totally so again and maybe enclosing here you're looking at next five ten years a what else should we expect the future venture capital or what other controversial opinion my you wanna leave a sweat yes i i i actually don't think that i want to be controversial for for the sake of controversial in our own country and i just like to think the things that i do get conviction on a content but if a you know they are not the things that others i do not think so you know i i you know i don't know but i think it's definitely won't be a the things that you know most people are are gravitating towards right so i think just like antic that's one of the reasons why why platforms are so a powerful as when is because some of the best ideas that we've had this come from things that were the worst that seemed like the worst ideas i said it'd be it'd be washed idea that i've ever worked trying a coin base or who but that time was very small you when they first when they when they got funded so i think these new sectors on new ideas will be things that no one no one anticipates i'm blushing wasn't something folks anticipated trade a so how do you about crypto blockchain hasn't opie i i think like we have you know one overriding a use case of speculation and i think 'em aside from that you know i haven't seen any you know a really good a on applications a i think it's still very very early you're not you're not eagerly investing in crypto funds just yet i'm no i i think we actually had a you know opportunity to but i think once we i think we we we could not by but once you missed opportunity i have a lot about biotech investing life science vesting have you in terms of funds have you look there have you done there do you think that's different than standard vc so yeah i think i am i am i don't a debt dabble in that so i don't i think a very different space thing that's why we saw many of the month on the juice to have a biotech back practice just and on ity practice you know they they they shut down their bio prog practice and and especially on the peutic signed i think they're now interesting stuff happening in computational biology but you know i think peutic says a is not something that a you know that i follow although there have been some some a some good thumbs and a but it's very very different than than traditional tech investing totally this year's ernst thing i i do think that there will be something like another i seo boom or or just some version of crowd funding that makes more and more people investors or do you think that that was a fluke did that did that make people invest s i don't i don't think i think i think some people were investing in predator projects jack so maybe wearing investing otherwise there were certain people that crypto money in were doing it should hold guy yeah yeah i think maybe it did you know i think from from that perspective you know it's very hard for me to have a good opinion about that so yeah i was not i was not involved and yeah no two blocks it's been a great episode of people wanna learn more or do you have any last minute plugs there things that you would leave it leave her audience with no ice i think just if you're a starting a studio seek me out excellent argument

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