What Would You Do? Podcast Episode 112
One year got trapped. I liked I liked can make and I liked right where it'd be able to spend more wartime. I was losing money getting traps out. There is the hardest part I think with leave in the back of Montross asking for going to found no matter what somebody guide traffic. Take this is what you get to ask them. Guys you know everything this Arkansas and saw China learn something from pledging to ask questions without aspiration volume the game magazine especially for her. They're going hurt. Ran into our the whole too. Fattening Radio Trapper Carcelle me. That's pretty listened to the most developers system yet working good added to build big traffic. Very good pal told about these big hands most of my to coming from down. Aw probably the best. One Plane Predator Shush waiters. And even better you better back in the first. This is trapping today. PODCAST brought to you by Cox Brothers. Moore's trap Smarter Work Harder. Success follows you find. Those guys froze K. A. R. S. DOT COM. You guys great service traps lure bates books. EBD's everything get started traveling for harvesters fortune. Where the world comes by while I for harvesters is being remaining auction house in the wild for industry? These guys are trappers. And they're working getting the best prices for your that bird in front uh of a bunch of buyers on the international for market It is game time guys from per harvesters to get that I sent out. They are running routes as as we speak so if you WANNA get for in for the March auction which should be a big auctions e biggest international auction in the year and this you probably have about a week By the time you listen to this to get that for to a receiving wing area so you want to get over to harvesters dot com. There's several sections of that site But few go under the tab you may have to do this on your your Laptop may not work as well on mobile phone but go to trappers in rancher the TAB at the top of the page at for Harvesters Dot com go down to You have a few options. Here they're shipping to Fha and then pick up schedules and FHA agents. What I usually do go right to pick up schedules? You have a place for Canadian shippers and one for US shippers. So I am going to click on US shippers and pick up schedules link. Click on that and then it gives. US pickup schedules for all of the states. That the have For Harvesters pickup locations Alaska Arizona Colorado Connecticut Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Not Maine Michigan Minnesota Missouri Montana Nebraska New Hampshire New Mexico New York Nevada Ohio Oregon. Pennsylvania South Dakota Tennessee Utah Vermont Egmont Washington and Wisconsin. So there's a lot of places guys to to get your for picked up Mine in Maine Ame- pull this US up When you click on your state it should open up a PDF document? And that has the two thousand twenty auction schedule. The last receiving dates in the sale dates rates in the last receiving dates for this auction of January nineteen The sale date is March. Twenty eight to thirty one so this time in in my The main schedule. It shows a January eleven. There's a bunch of pickups in January eighteen there's a bunch there's actually actually some. There's some after that after January eighteen You may generic twenty two. You'RE GONNA if you if you get by January twenty two in Maine main. They're a little later than that last receiving day. That should still get your for into the Into the March auction. But after the twenty second. Or whenever you're state whatever your data's for your state around that twenty th January Your firs- knocking. We auctioned off likely until April because it takes them a lot of time together all the for together together and then they've got people grading sorting it going through that whole process getting it ready for the auction so I'm actually. Actually the other thing is too you. If you don't see a pickup area in close to you you should. You should really take a look at the pickup information down at the bottom there are there are some agents in. There's going to be the contact information for those agents so mine in Maine You know I get a guy down in in western Maine who is an agent and has his phone number right there so I just gave him a call and I say look My my closest location is is a little over two hours away and And I'm actually I actually have to be working in the woods that day Long ways away from from anywhere probably Ah probably be six hours away from that pickup location by how being dirt road in Snowy road an icy zero. So anyway I can't make it to that to that pickup but I I said. Is there any chance you're going anywhere else. That's not on the list. And he called me up a couple of weeks later and he did add a location he had had had to go to an area. That's an hour away from me. And so an a few days here implant on on going down there meeting him and bring in some for so always always check just because it's not on the list. There's always a possibility to To be able to to meet somebody see you or or maybe check with a fellow trapper. That can help you Maybe you can throw pelts together To make it worth the long trip to to get some for over to the auction So that's that's good in in. It's one thing that we all times we don't think about it or I don't think about it and then all of a sudden it's like a weak way. It's like Oh man man I'm not GonNa get my out if I if I don't get it now. Where am I going to sell it in it? Especially it's bad if you missed the the late auction 'cause this year ear the plan. Of course we don't know what's going to. I don't know what's going to happen with Nafta yet. When they're going to sell all of the for that that they have when they went bankrupt so that there could be an auction available for that for I do have some I still there and hopefully there's an auction of we see some money there air but I'm I'm not looking not very hopeful but if you if you don't get it in then you're going to have to really re run up against some options and you know one of the things I did is I did vacuum seal and freeze some marten pelts so that that's one option if the pelter small all you could vacuum seal them and get them in the freezer and and the last daily a couple years? No problem You you can look for a local buyer you can look for for actually you. You can ship for and you can. You can mail it via postal service FEDEX. UPS Yes it's GonNa be expensive But it's better than having first around that you don't you don't have a market for and you can't afford to pay to get hand so We always talked talked about that before. But I actually. I just shipped a box of twenty six beavers to One of our friends of the podcast out west who is a for buyer and So so it can be done. It was it was a little expensive. It was a little under four dollars. Appelt to ship those but You know it it it it can be done if you if you pack things in right and get their eight bucks the right size and You can get it done somewhat reasonably It's easier if you have smaller. Pelts also had a fellow trapper who oh lives down in Pennsylvania and he he was headed down in he has an FHA pickup but twenty minutes away from his house. So that was that worked so good. I threw some coyotes and with him too so You know I understand. Several people have contacted me and said hey look you know. This is not as easy as you think that. There's there's not a lot of you know especially trappers down in the south. We don't have a lot of markets. Were far away from anyone that wants are for and what I'm telling you right now now is you're not alone trapper up north in a state that produces some pretty good quality for and we still have a big challenges in getting our for to market and part of it I think is just living in a rural area and everything is far away as it is and as the markets the different markets dry up you know I had an Alfa receiving agent just Thirty minutes away and They're no longer taking first so all of a sudden the closest this is one is two hours away and that's just a pickup on on a Saturday morning twice a year so These are all things that we we are challenged with but Y- you know you if you're innovative creative and you you think of all your different options you can figure it out. You can find a way to get that I sent off and then I know you guys. These are are going to send for out to get tanned and Making into different for clothing items and I think that is just awesome if you only have a few pelts. I'd recommend commend that as well it. I think it's a really good option. So what's going on in my trap line. Well were pretty well wrapped up for most host species here in northern Maine In I I still have a lot of beaver trapping affair. Little bit of beaver trapping I WANNA do. But but I'M GONNA put that off from kind of taking a break from Trapping for about Oh about a month year and just kind of regrouping and and Catching up on other things that I fell behind with when I when I got into the start of the trapping season and preparing for a trip preparing. I'm for big trapping trip. You're probably not gonNA hear about it when I'm gone you only way you'll know I'm gone as I won't be responding to emails and and that will be for a period of close to three weeks you won't. You won't get any responses from me. You're gonNA hear podcast episodes but those are going to be preloaded and hopefully I do it right. Actually a screwed up the other day This last week's episode I posted hosted ahead of time because I was going in the woods and I didn't know when I'd be back and and so I posted up ahead of time and I just scheduled it to to come out. You can schedule your are your blog posts and podcast stuff to come out anytime you want now and I scheduled that to come out on Saturday night and I was in the woods through Sunday Sunday night. I got back Sunday night. I saw that posted. Everything looked good. All right awesome and funny one of the things that I listened to through a lot of different people online podcasts and and youtube videos and everything and some of them in the business world. Just because that's something that interests me Online business. Like what we're doing here with the podcast and website and all that and there's one guy called By goes by the name of Seth Godin. He's kind kind of a thought leader when it comes to online business. He's been doing it for. Since since the beginning of the Internet. Essentially and E- I don't agree with everything breath talks about. He's got a lot of different You know extremely liberal opinions and ideas and views. But he's incredibly smart person and and he has some some fascinating insights on psychology and People and emotional intelligence and how you work with other other people. How you how you sell to people in the right way All things that that we can all learn to to help ourselves in everyday life and one of the things. He talks about a lot in one of the key. Phrases he says is is how do you know are you. Putting out quality information formation quality content. He says the one way to measure that. Is You ask this one question. Will people miss you if you're gone in other other words if you don't show up will someone miss you and I had some people missing the podcast. So that was pretty awesome. On Monday morning I went to work just like yeah Every other day and I started having emails. Fire up on my phone and I just didn't really pay much. Attention is doing doing stuff. It's Kinda a busy and I get I had a quick break and I pulled up and hey Love Your podcast. By the way you forgot to attach the episode and other other and Hey you're episode didn't post I don't hear anything. Don't see anything on the site and all this and this is just people that were getting the the email newsletter the weekly newsletter. That shows the the the episode. You know I know a lot of you guys. Just get it when it comes out on On on either Apple podcasts or stitcher or spotify or whatever whatever platform you listen to so that that was really cool that that I thought wow. That's the first thing that came to mind was. Hey I had a few people miss me so it's it's good. It's good to know but anyway I screwed that up. And so I if I screw this up on on where I'm going I'm not gonNA have cell service for long extended period of time and I'm not going to know so I apologize ahead of time to listeners in Sponsors advertisers if if that happens will make up for it when I get back. But if things go smoothly You're going to hear an episode every week still and it's it's almost going to be like I'm not I didn't go anywhere except your emails will a probably have several hundred emails when I get back to to deal with which is okay. It'll be worth it But I I have been doing some more interviews. I've had some feedback from guys that that have been enjoying the these interviews lately of just every day trappers so so people that listen to the show and a lot of newer younger trappers trappers. Who who've gotten into it later on in life and and the The this kind of results resulted from several episodes ago when I was like. Hey if anybody wants to come on the PODCASTS. You know I'd I'd I think it'd be called interview. Some of you and I've had quite a few responses to that so I've done I have to that. I've done recently. I'm doing two more tomorrow and then possibly another one coming up shortly so we'll have quite a few of those and boy. It's been great. I've had had some really good conversations. I'm constantly amazed by the quality of people that listen to the show It's really cool. It's really cool all the sea so anyway enough of that That that's more that is coming up Speaking of people that listen to the show interviews remember. We had Vince on from Washington. Then he talked cage-trapping I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Vince He has a put up put together a youtube channel. It's called trapped out ATV and he just put up a few videos on that just recently started I subscribed and watch those pretty awesome stuff. So it's cool to you. Talk with somebody about their trap. Line and what it's all about. And what they do. And you know he talked about eastern Washington and cage-trapping and you can kind of visualize July that but but it it makes it all you know it. It's so much cooler. When you can having heard it you can actually look and see all the scenery in the background and the type aground? He's trapping and so one of the videos show. He goes right through setting up a cage for Bob Cats. He actually shows where he he. They caught a Bob Cat in the cage. WJR He shows how he says. Be beaver traps Those those live traps The the suitcase style. And it's pretty Nicole so Check that out it's trapped out TV. And that's Vince from Washington. Let's go from Washington over to to Wyoming more specifically Jackson Hole Wyoming Jackson hole is not much like the rest of the state. When you think Wyoming you think ranching country mountains open Very low population very conservative old school farmer rancher type of communities Jackson Hole. If you're not familiar is is the tourist destination of Wyoming and it is a place that kind of like Sun Valley in Idaho has attracted a whole pile of people who have a lot of money in our come from Bourbon areas and As a general rule. I know it's not good to judge people based on their background. But let's just say the vast majority these people have more of an Not all of them but the vast majority of an anti trapping type of of Personal viewpoint or or personal viewpoint of being a very friendly to animals and very unfriendly to host who a harvest animals. So let's let's put it at that. I think there's a lot of things that we can do to To to understand more about about those viewpoints and for those people to understand more about what we do. But but that being said there are a lot of people in Jackson Hole area who recreate who who like to go skiing and snowshoeing and see wildlife and and have their dogs and their pets running around on public land and so. This article came across my desk a few weeks ago and it was very interesting article. I posted suited up on trapping today DOT COM for those who don't follow the blog website. You can you can check that out. there's a bunch of articles if you just listen to the podcast. You don't see any of that stuff. So that's on trapping today DOT COM and this article is it's written by the local newspaper there in Jackson hole and they're talking about a the situation a pretty controversial situation that came to light. I wanted to discuss go into it a little bit just to go through the thought process of of what you do in this situation. What how how we should approach it and think about it and maybe just just throw it out there? I would love to get your feedback on on what you would do or your your your your your thoughts on this now. One of the caveats here when I read this article is there's been a lot of. There's this group that it is called Wyoming entrapped and this group has has pushed a against trapping on public lands in it particularly in this area. And there's I've heard some things about potentially you know this may be being spoofed article Particularly since the trapper was not named Or something along those lines. There's the story might have been made up or or whatever I don't looking in more recent information that come has come to light. Don't think that's the case. I may have just been the case of an unfortunate situation but Just keep that in mind just always always think about. Oh you know what I'm GonNa sit at sit back. I'M GONNA go to an article. I just found in North Carolina because this is a perfect example activists call on Amazon to stop selling bear traps after three legged bears found in North Carolina. Now this article article of talking about three legged bears North Carolina's from January seven twenty twenty. Now I don't have the best memory in the world but I recall a year ear to ago reading an article about three legged bears in North Carolina and Something along the lines of Ah We should ban foothold traps because her three legged bears and it's the most outrageous thing because we all know that None of the traps that can be used. In North Carolina. China will hold a bear to begin with And even if they did hold a bear they'd catch him by by toe and there will not be a three legged could bear running around. We all know this for a fact so someone got a picture of three laid bare and started circulating that picture and created rated this whole narrative that Yeah traps are are killing our maiming. All these bears and we need to band trap. So it's it's it makes you really roll. Oh you're is it's it's unbelievable. How ridiculous the stuff is sometimes a but but that's a perfect example of something the public is going to believe that But when you're eating these things just always have a little healthy level of skepticism. Just to be sure that that that you You know don't dive in headfirst. Listen to all these things. Were without the full realization of what what might be actually going on. So let's get back to the Wyoming Article Trapper forewarns public about line up cash. Cash cash is spelled H. E. Interesting word cash. The word refers to a place where valuable things things are stored for later travel so cat. A lot of the creeks out West or called Cache Creek and actually when when I was in Utah there is an area called cash valley in in the interesting thing about that is that word and the naming of different areas. uh-huh with cash in them came from the mountain man days when the mountain men would store caches of supplies caches of gear caches of of I traps or I and they would storm in places to return. Pick them up later on so trapper forewarns orange public about line up cash. A man who says he has set a trap line at one of the valley's most popular dog-walking spots set off a flurry we've commentary on social media. The recent transplant from Star Valley posted on the facebook page Jackson hole for sale. classifieds warning people who have tamper with his traps that he would report them authorities on facebook. He created an account under the name. Chris Brasher the news in guide. Reporter interviewed the Trapper trapper. And Determined Bratcher was a pseudonym. The reporter confirmed the trappers actual name but editors agreed not to print it because of the inflammatory subject. Editors decided the public public benefit of this article called for an exception to our usual policy of not granting anonymity. It was a previous stint in the valley when he worked at Bhartiya. Bharti five covered wagon cookout that hatched the idea of trying to catch fur-bearing species on cache creek while employed by the Chuck Wagon. He noticed just that Wyoming game and fish department personnel were setting live traps to move black bears out of the low part of the drainage on the edge of town. I figured if you have a bear coming in the trapper told newsmen and guide you'd have everything coming in additionally he thought it would be wise to run a trap line at cash because he'd heard the leash law in the area that could help keep free roaming dogs out of his sets The leash it says here. The leash requirement applies only to the parking lot. Not where the man says. His traps are actually set. On Sunday morning he took to social media to let people know it's a well off the trails. The no dogs get caught in them hero in a facebook page post I have might traps tampered with in stolen. I have now put a game cam up and we'll be sending our. I've had my traps tamper with stolen. I have now put a game game up. And we'll be sending pending further incidents to the game wardens and please tempering with traps as illegal in Wyoming though there are exceptions in two thousand sixteen game and fish department altered regulations to allow. Oh any person to release accidentally caught non fur-bearing non predators trappers notice set off a debate about the wisdom of running a trap line at one of the most most visited nooks of the bridges Teton National Forest which is particularly popular with dog walkers in the wintertime. I'm sure you're a decent guy and hopefully you'll realize what you're doing is wrong Jackson resonant destined Peters wrote in one of one hundred plus comments that amassed even if it is legal trapping in a very heavily used area is still wrong it will hurt the reputation of hunters and trappers ultimately getting more restrictions placed on all of us just because he can doesn't mean you should it being a facebook discussion in the discourse predictably degenerated into a try ballistic into tribal name calling. And that's why I don't get in facebook discussions. I'd be happy to have him trap anywhere near where I live because I'm not an insufferable imbecile and I'm perfectly capable of keeping my animals safe at all times caitlyn Roberts wrote in response to another post from Peter's in a phone interview. The man stood by his decision and said he plans to run a trap line at Cache Creek through the winter. Roughly his traps are located on the south outside of the creek downstream from the bridge preceding the main parking area. He's using three styles of traps. Body gripping devices called Connor bears that are set injuries intended tended to catch Pine Marten and also foothold in live traps that are targeted at Fox in raccoons. It's public land in. It's my public land just like anybody else's says the man said I have the same rights that they do. Cache Creek has been at the center of a community debate about trapping historic outdoor pursuit that attracted famous mountain men to the northern rockies in the nineteenth century responding to a request from the advocacy group Wyoming untrapped the Wyoming Game Fish Department proposed designated knitting knitting the cash drainage downstream of no carmine. Draw as a trap free zone in two thousand fifteen. The Game Fish Commission disagreed. So the the department's departments suggested or proposed this but the game and fish commission is officials who are on board that Vote on rules that are recommended by the department They rejected the trat free zone by five to one vote. Some members of the board at the time acknowledged that they didn't even know where cache cache creek was but opposed the measure because it had the fingerprints of a group that sought to end fur-trapping. So that's hey that's a good sign if you're in Wyoming you gotTA aboard game of Game Fish Commission. That's in support trappers. That's for sure. Lisa Robertson Wyoming on traps founder said having an active trap lining cache creek is motivation for for her to again pursue regulations. That create trap free areas and trail setbacks if there's a trapper who has the judgment to put traps and busy areas than we need to get rid of those and we need to stop it. Robertson said Monday. It's a bad idea to have traps in that area period. It's a very busy highly used area. And that's the last place. I'd put my trap line if I were trapper. Rapper because trappers often use scented bates to attract targeted animals. Robertson said. It's only a matter of time for dogs. Caught the trapper said he had no desire or to catch up injure anyone's pet. I'm taking more precaution than regulations require. He said and I think I'm being very cautious about it. So that's the end of the article. Let's give it give it a little bit of thought and the the first question that I'm going to pose for you think about it is in. I know this question probably indicates that I I have an opinion one way or the other I I kind of have a nuance opinion on this But but I'll ask this question just because something is legal to do. Should you do it. So let's get into a little bit of a philosophical discussion on on this whole deal The the thing that I'm GonNa do is what I just did is took a notebook and I just made a lesson in. This is very typical. Michael and I do this all the time and other people do this a lot I just made a list of pros and cons of this decision but I have a couple of boundaries Around the pros and cons on this notebook I have. I have a big word on the very top in between the pros and cons in it. I circled it. That word is information and so at at the very beginning. Just the way I'm thinking about. This is any decision. ACITION that that you are I make on whether we think this should have been done or not. We need to recognize that we do not have all the information The article I thought was pretty good in terms of laying everything out there on the situation. But I've never been up as far as I know. I spend spend a little time round Jackson Hole. But I don't believe ever been up Cache Creek And the actually. Maybe I have been in that part of the forest but anyway anyway. Obviously I don't remember so I I can't tell you how much use this gets on a daily basis. Is there half a dozen people on Skis or snowshoes. Is there Fifty people a day. I I have no idea I don't know what kind of forest it is. I don't know what you know. What the Ferber Ribeira population looks like? How how far for Dr is it? there there are a number of different things. How far out of town is is it? The number of different things that that we do not have all the information on so it's always important to to think in terms of service that background of of what you have for information. This is one of the things that living in a rural area. It's it's very frustrating when When you you have issues political issues where people enroll areas are represent the minority of the voting public? However a Lotta times when issues come up that affect rural areas those people are the ones that have the vast majority of the information? That's used to make an informed decision and so it it always seems that and I know I'm getting off topic here but I think it's necessary to talk about you. Know a lot of people you've heard probably heard the term and before The the the best government is the one that's closest to you and so local government works very effectively because people people are engaged and know what's going on The further you get away from local government you get to county government you get to state government and federal government government the further away you get from local the the less effective that governance gonNA be in the the less people are going to be very fond of the decisions. The government makes because those decisions are less likely to reflect the knowledge that that local people have on in the situation. So what I'm saying is from Maine or West Virginia or North Carolina or Florida or Alberta Saskatchewan California. Wherever you're listening from just just remember that we don't have all the information so our decision is kind of going to be couched within within that Little a bit of a caveat and then below the pros and cons. I have a couple of arrows going from pros and cons to center of the page and and I've got a thing where stars around it and I wrote down trappers decision and so that's the other thing we need to recognize is that this is a free the individual who we believe based on the information. We have made a legal decision to do something that he has every right to do. And so Those with those two things in being considered and I I've never taken a philosophy course. I don't know if I'm way off topic on this or or touching on some of the the ideas but recognize that we are outside of this this fear of of this This whole scenario and so we don't. I'll have all the information and even when we do come to a decision we need to recognize that This guy this individual has the right to make a decision. That's different from ours and so those things being considered. Let's let's look at the pros and cons I'm GONNA touch on the pros. I and and The this is the pros and cons of setting a trap line up cache creek considering all the things that we heard about in the article. The number one pros. This is legal. This trapper as far as we see in the article is not doing anything against the law. He has the right to trap by Wyoming Trapping regulations in that area. So okay. You know it's legal. He's he's the the people who hike that trail trail legally have a right to be there to I'm so they're not doing anything legal's not stealing his traps and he did ask you know he had some trap stolen said. Look I'm I put cameras up and appreciate this The second pro. These are all my opinion again. You know this is just what I seen. I love to hear from you if he had any other thoughts. That are different on the second pro is the guy went above and beyond The legal requirements and he actually posted. You know I'm going to be trapping in this area. I'm setting traps in Syria. Here's generally where they're located and I don't intend to catch any animals. I I want you to know about that and I I don't WanNa catch your pets but please keep him on a leash Sounds like there's a misunderstanding there. He thought they had to be on a leash If if indeed they did have to be on a leash then you know. That's that's pretty big pro there. He he went above and beyond and told people where the where the sets were to try and help them avoid their dogs being caught in the traps Beyond beyond the legal thing. I mean Well let's more on the legal. You know this is in addition to being legal by I tapping regulations. This is public land and everybody owns public land. Everybody who is citizen of the United States owns public land and so he did have the right to be out there doing what he did. And and it gets into beyond the the legal Rights that this trapper had did he have sort of a philosophical right To be out there trapping in fulfilling a desire within within himself that was not breaking any laws and in theory knocking to harm anybody else. Just like the skier had a right eight to go and And Ski that trail and and fulfil that desire as well So so so. That's a consideration. I think I don't know I. You know one person if you guys you know Tyler Selden Who's on the show? The last Alaskans trapper up. There he's the only person yeah I've ever heard of who who has a degree in philosophy and is a trapper so maybe someday I could get chance to pick tyler his brain about this stuff That'd be awesome What I have one other pro here in and this is something that you you know just kind of thinking outside the box? A little bit to the strapper did is that it wasn't. This was an educational experience dance and it raised awareness. Now I know there's there's negatives to that as well but but there is some positive aspect of showing people that there are still trappers offers around. They are citizens. Who are you know not Crazy mountain men or or Lowlifes in society diety and they there. This is a legal act. And they're not the intention is not to catch your pets and so it kind of raise the little bit of awareness there so so there's to me there's some value to that. Increased awareness increased education nation of fee for people on on On what the strapper was doing. I kinda ran out of pros so I get a list list of cons. I think I have just as the same number pros and cons in coincidentally But the the first the first con that I have have is while this has potentially been an educational awareness Situation that that may we have had some positives. I think the positives were weighed by potentially the bad public relations that this may have resulted in fur trappers so so there was in addition to people who didn't really know much about trapping and Oh yeah good cool. That's you know that's legal and the guys doing it that's cool. There's probably a lot of people who didn't even who who never thought that trapping was legal in that area to begin with and they never saw trapper there before so They had no idea in and they just went about their thing. And there's trappers and other areas that they never saw and everybody was happy life And now you're taking an area where all the sudden you're giving your increasing the awareness of of what's going on Unfortunately though you know we always talk about this on a podcast is telling more people your trapper and showing more people. You know what you're doing and and I I firmly believe that that's a positive and I. You heard me tell Josh the other day that the interview we had that I believe the majority of of the Public would side with trapping if they were able to experience it and see what we did Jackson Hole. Wyoming is not the majority of the Public Doc. Okay this is a select. Few that record on public lands in Jackson Hole Wyoming on these trails near pre presumably the A heavily travelled area. These are the people who are closer to that. Twenty percent not the eighty percent. That didn't go either way Maybe the ten percent that are are opposed the ten or twenty or whatever that is that small percentage that are are very opposed to any type trapping Were pulling from a pretty big pool. Those Jackson Hole Wyoming And I know offense to guys that are from Jackson Hole. Don't feel that way But but you know what what I'm saying. So you're taking a an issue and you're blowing up right in the middle of a bunch of people that are naturally inclined to be opposed to you to begin with. That's a bad thing in my view. The second con- you could catch a dog man. You could catch a dog. You got footholds. There are and I don't know again novel. Don't have all the information. I don't know how far these were from the trail But if you see there's guys that have been catching in dogs around the country. I see articles here and there There was one in Montana Missoula. That was an illegal set. The Guy Dog died it was it was a three thirty set on ground highly. Highly illegal the guy the guy went to court. He paid a big fine. I think he serve some time in jail. Actually In you know that's a problem. That's that but we obviously that's an illegal activity. That's not a trapper. That's not someone they. The guy didn't even know he didn't even read the trapping rules or by attracting license He just put it out there so so crazy stuff right. And there's no need to add to that crazy staff by legally doing something that catches a dog and and it's only footholds get it but catching a dog and a foothold. It's not a big deal if you do it in a place where you know. The dog owner knows what they're doing and the dog owner can just easily pull that trap open and let the dog go the again. This is a group of people that when Noah trap if they saw it most of them and so if they catch a dog. It's GONNA be a big call the cops call the game wardens. Get everybody in the SWAT team in here. And and Raise a big fuss. And everything's in the news and other dog a cop trapper and Blah Blah Blah and we need to raise awareness. And we're going to start fundraisers and and we need to band trapping So that's that's another con another con is I thought about whether this was a i. Put a question mark narrative it seems uses though even though this was philosophically possibly are potentially a right this trapper had it also kind of seems a little inconsiderate And I think about that in terms of let's say you were it's not like Wyoming's run out of places places for people to trap right so let's say you had a similar situation on that trail and it was open to. I don't it probably isn't I don't know what it is. But let's say it was open to motorized use as well and so these people are out there Skiing and what their dogs and you take your snowmobile and you go at top speed and zoom raped by him on snowmobile. You didn't do anything illegal. But don't you think maybe that that was a little inconsiderate of of those people you know if you again defending the situation maybe the snowmobile was is legal. Or maybe you had to go to area And you had to pass through that trail in that case maybe slowdown may be stop and say. Hey how's your day. How's how's it going But but there you always should be taking Taking that into consideration how other people feel about how what you do affects other people Yes it might be legal. Does that mean it's OK. Does that mean you should do it. the fourth con-. This is a motivator for the anti trapping crowd and it may they have turned Some people who were were somewhat on the fence to Ordinarily carry their way to maybe maybe a little more towards trying to ban trapping in this area at least on this trail network so you just took something that everything was kind of left be you know maybe a little education would be good but All all of a sudden you've added fuel to the fire these people who don't really like the idea of of possibly having traps on that trail they don't own it. I get it. But you've added fuel to their fire and kind of given them a little motivation to work against us as trappers at that. That's a little difficult all to to navigate because at the same time you know if there were a bunch of trappers that had been using that trail previously maybe people would be less likely to walk their dogs on it and ski on Iraq create on that trail with their pets so It's really a tough deal where you know if you had an area where you were trapping This particular trail system for years and years and years. But you know I think I when I hear this I think Mike Day in Missoula Montana if if you Mike Woo will longtime member of Montana Trap Association. I'm not sure what he's been doing lately but he's got to be in his eighties by now he was there. He was all when I was there and and he was always in. He still is in the letters to the editor in the MISSOULA newspaper Going back and forth with with the anti trapping crowd and the crowd that wants to to ban Trapping Ping on public trails and all that and When I think of that I think you know? He's he's probably been in that area for many decades and that area was much different thirty forty fifty years ago. There weren't all these people. There wasn't this huge city and it wasn't all these folks who have no background in hunting fishing trapping and just won't go and walk their dogs and they're on these trails now and guys that used to trap are our kind of being pushed out so I I do feel that as well so I don't WanNa feel you make it seem like drap or just get out of the way and go find someplace else to trap trap because we I do recognize that there. There's there's potential there for US loose a little ground in places like this so I get it I think But but this is really you know overall I think this potentially would the con here is is is Not only boost efforts of the anti crowd but I also put One last con that. This could hurt trappers in other other areas. trappers that have heard about this and are people who have heard about this and other areas wanting to make sure Oh. Let's we'd better make sure sure that we never. We don't have anybody trapping on this particular trail. We better make sure that we we changed the law and make it so that they can't trap here in the future. A lot of that stuff gone Mexico right now. A very very similar situation so We get the pros pros and the cons It was legal. He went above and beyond to inform he. It was public land. He had the right to use it just like anyone else. He had. Maybe a philosophical rate as trapper to go out there and enjoy himself and It did bring some awareness to who trappers are and and the fact that we're still around the cons bad awareness bad public relations For this particular community overall. I think you could catch a dog and make it worse. potentially inconsiderate Just because you can do it I it's it's having potentially negative impact on people in in you know you just venture pansies in there but you know people who don't know any better in their walking their dog on a trail and they don't know what a trap looks like and they think maybe my dog could get caught in at any moment any bender turn around the bend the trail in and they read this article about a dog got caught in another place. And you know there's a little bit of emotional Fear and And you know that's not good. It's it's it's negatively affecting other people's experience even though we don't agree with them even though they may not have any danger whatsoever. It's not about the facts. It's about how they feel and so I think it's important to consider that Because even if even if you don't like it Their feelings do matter when it comes to voting and and and funding these anti trapping efforts This another doc CON boost the effort to the anti crowd in her choppers and other areas. So so that's in a nutshell in my view In the end and it was the trappers decision whether we could discourage it or encourage it whether we like it or not. He had that decision to make. And that's what he did now a couple of questions. What would you do an and I love to hear from you? Send me an email. J. Rod would gmail.com Mel Dot Com J. R. D. W. O. O. D. at gmail.com. Let me know what you would do in this situation. what or what do you think what you think he should have done. I guess that's the same question What would I do? Well my personal decision based Jason Little Bit I know about the general area And based on my Tendencies as an individual. I just want to be left alone. Most of the time and I don't WanNA bother other people. I don't WanNa be bothered. That's why I live in the area that I live in It you know in general. It's pretty good 'cause I can't I look in all directions and I can't see neighbor anywhere I like that. I would've found another trail out found a place that did not have traffic on it. from from the recreation public At at that level assuming that there's a pretty good level traffic on on that trail. I would've gone somewhere else. Now if I was limited. If there wasn't a whole lot of traffic there If I didn't have other places to trap I probably would've trapped there but I wouldn't have said a foothold on the ground And and I wouldn't upset. Ah Pro I probably would only have set Body grips up in the trees for Martin and maybe set a cage trap or two. You had one of my wanted to do that But but I'd run a little Martin lineup and the trees and you'll maybe maybe run into some skiers. Hey how's it going. Yeah I'm I'm checking some Martin traps. Just thought you know they're up up in the air the only catch Martin or weasel. They're not gonNA. There's no chance of catching your pet or anything. I'm being respectful of that. And you're at us the trail too and I hope you respect my right To to use it as a trapper as well so you know you get yelled out a little bit. Maybe from some people but I think majority people be like. Hey that's pretty cool. Okay or I don't really like that but thanks for letting me know or You just walk by and say. Hey how's it going. Don't don't let them know your trapper. I guess there's there's a lot of ways to to approach things. Depending depending on who the person is that you're that you're interacting with so so that's I guess that's what I would have done I I would have. I would go elsewhere to trap or I would have trapped in very limited mayor that would not have affected other members of the public. But that's my opinion. Not Saying that's the right way Just that's just me. And and everybody's GonNa feel a little different probably now some there's an update to the story. Follow up There is a new new article from the Jackson Hole. News Guide and it's titled Cash Traps Removed Trapper cited so remember we said was assuming that everything thing the traffic was doing was legal So we get the rest of the story here. says a trap line. That caused an uproar due to its location nation near the well trodden cache. Creek trail head has been removed by Wyoming game and fish department warden. Who cited the man who set the traps warden? Kailash cited the trapper with failure to check his traps within the required seventy two hour period and also for not tagging his traps. Those are non bond both fences that cannot be settled by paying a fine. The man has twenty January twenty. Three court date lash removed six traps from the cache creek area early this week after he determined with game cameras that the trapper had violated the check time requirements on Tuesday night lash was able to make contact with the trapper who helped the warden find and remove two more traps that had not been located earlier. Lashed did not name the trapper. Because game and fish policy that does not allow department personnel to identify suspects violations until cases. have been adjudicated The Jackson Hole News Guy previously verified the man's identity granted anonymity. He will be identified imprint. After his appearance in Teton Don County Circuit Court Lash said. The trapper was contrite and admitted to not checking his traps as frequently as the law requires he was real helpful and apologetic Thornton said there were two other traps. I didn't know about that. He helped me find. Jobs must be marked with tags. Entrap origination numbers in Wyoming trapper toll. Last she had chap tags on order order had written in permanent marker on some of the traps but others weren't marked in violation of the law and lash opted to cite him. Cache Creek is one of the most used areas the tire birger Teton national forest especially popular in the wintertime when wildlife winter closures make other parts of the valley off limits. Interesting many trappers rappers. Don't bother with the area because of the potential conflict for conflict with pets. There you go just last weekend. A pet dog named bub-bubba that's That's another story so anyway this Yet goes it just repeats a couple of other things things In a in the end says in his mind he said he didn't think he was creating an issue because everyone would have their dog's leash that's what he thought. But of course the leash law only applied the parking lot so anyway. It's all kind of moot because trapper was breaking the law anyway And he got caught and is probably a good thing. it's unfortunate How how that thing Kinda played out but at the very least guys was good exercise and thinking about how we would approach approach certain things and who knows? Maybe it'll help you think in the future on your trap line When you have a decision to make like that Help if you make make what you feel is right decision in the long term in the best interests of of US trapper and of other trappers and trapping community as a whole so. Oh with that long winded discussion. Thank you guys very much for tuning in stay tuned For for some interviews coming up appear spare soon and Checkout my book for-profit chapters in the modern firm ARC. If you don't have a copy of that that it's only twelve and you can get just about anywhere and you can get my long distance call lure for a couple more weeks six. Now I'M GONNA take it off the market for a while so You find that trapping today dot com if you need some lure if you want to stock up even if you trapped and season is over You can get a jar that and keep it in storage at stores really well and and get have for next season so Appreciate she ate that I I get a certain number of balls when I run out. I run out and won't make until next year. So check it out trapping today DOT com. You still find some them on Ebay as well with that. Thanks for tuning in get that first shipped if you got some to go and keep on talking trapping keep on thinking chapin benefit still got a season. Get out there and trap before it's over take care and we'll catch you in the next episode.