Fur Market Woes and Alaska Snaring: Podcast Episode 121
One year got trapped. I liked I liked can make and I liked right where it'd be able to spend more time in the woods. I was losing money. Getting traps out. There is the hardest part I think with leave in the back of Montross earthly for going to no matter what traffic partner. This is what you get to ask them guys. You know everything this Arkansas China. Learn something from pledging to ask questions about asa volume the game magazine especially for her. They're going hurt running the whole to fattening. Radio trapper. Carcelle me. That's pretty listen. Developers system yet working ahead to build the traffic. The Good Path told about these big hands. Most of my to coming from downtown. Probably the Best Part Plane Predator Shush waiters and even better. Now I can the first Ed. This is the trapping today. Podcast Jeremiah would great to have you here. Thank you podcast is brought to you by caught. Brothers lures eight. Eight eight T. C. B. R. O. S. DOT COM TRAP. Smarter WORK HARDER TO ENJOY THE SUCCESS. That all his customers has line of traffic supplies to get your started. Great Service. Great prices awesome guys feeling huge supporters of the podcast also brought to you by for. Harvesters auction where the role comes up for. Auction House burned by trappers for Trappers de last remaining wild for auction house in the United States and North America and I think in the world so check out for harvesters dot com for more details huge auction coming in about ten days from time. You listen to this. Stay tuned There's a lot of uncertainties in the firm market. And we need to figure out what's going on here. Moving forward also brought to you by on x maps on x is an APP. That allows you to turn your phone into a fully functioning. Gps with tracking way points Based aerial base maps and most importantly for some people landowner information. You get all the parcel data In most states you can see exactly where you're at in whose land you are on you. Get the name information you see the parcel. So if you have permission to trap on a certain piece of land from certain landowner This is an apt as absolutely crucial allows you to stay in the right spot and stay on the land you're supposed to be on. It also is an awesome scouting tool you can use the aerial imagery to To find a beaver flow edges find habitat for different ferber's and you can also figure out what the parcels are in many places and you can use that information to go out and ask permission for to get some pick up some trapping ground so go to on x maps dot Com to learn more and your first year subscription your first purchase on the website. You can use the Promo code trap when YOU CHECK OUT You'll have the opportunity you type in a promotional code. T. R. A. P. That will save you. Twenty percent off of the price purchase price. Which it's about last. I paid for one. Who's about thirty bucks a year? So you're going to save About six bucks Just by typing in trap and kicks a few bucks over to trapping. Terrain helps support the podcast. So thanks very much much on x maps in guys. Check that out if you're not using this app you really need to. You're missing out on something Also I got a few emails from guys who Who actually already used the APP and are glad to hear it Here being talked about now because it is a really great resource. Okay in tonight's episode. We have an update kind of an update on the firm market. I am recording this a few days before it's going to air so I'm going to be in the woods for the next four days so I'm trying to get this up so it'll it'll post up while I'm gone. You guys won't have any Any days of interruption from your normal podcasting schedule for those of you that listen every week at the same time But I this kind of came out just recently and so I wanted to. I wanted to get it out there and buy just a quick. Just a little word of caution. Things may have changed by the time you listen to this because right now things are changing from day to day with the stock market's the commodities oil markets corona virus and the firm market. Everything's kind up in the area now so in just the past few days since I recorded last week's episode we've had the corona virus kind of exploded in the United States worldwide. It's now considered a pandemic by the World Health Organization It is it is one of those things that overall deaths. It's not really a big compared to a lot of other causes of death. It's almost a drop in the bucket but at the same time there is so much fear surrounding this thing spreading Much to to grow to a much larger thing that it is rate now that fears what drives markets. You know. Fear fear ingred. Are the two things that drive. Markets are one of the pieces of advice from Warren Buffet who is one of the richest people in the world and has been incredibly successful. He's Costa Ninety years old and he He is a very successful investor. One of his big pieces of advice is to be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful with that means is It's it's kind of a a an overall statement about the how the markets work in in any economy markets driven by emotion because people are are the ones that are making these decisions. People emotions are swung back and forth between fear and greed The stock market was filled with the greed emotion for the past at least the past year. Where the Dow Jones Industrial Averages has been Sky High? It's it's break breaking new records all time highs almost thirty thousand from you know lows of six to eight thousand back in two thousand and eight two thousand nine. We had the last crash and everybody felt that there could. There could be no wrong in the markets and things discontinued to go up and up and up over the course of ten years A whole new group of investors have entered the market that don't have an understanding of the history of the last crash so there's a feeling of everything is great and we're all making money and that's when one needs to be fearful on the other hand all of a sudden things changed on a dime overnight. We had news of the corona virus outbreak In every single day seemed to get worse and worse we also had a recent issue with oil The OPEC the biggest oil producing nations in the world are there. They're group that comes together and decides how much they're each nation is going to produce in order to maintain prices Acceptable prices for oil and so if OPEC nations produce less oil. The price tends to go up and so they make more money on every barrel of oil that the export and if they Flood the market and produce more oil than the price tends to go down as you would guess with typical supply and demand issues at the last meeting of OPEC which was a couple of weeks ago. The major countries could not come to an agreement particularly. I believe it was Saudi Arabia and Russia could not agree on supply cuts and so they had a falling out and decided that I think Saudi Arabia responded to Russia's lack of desire to To cut their oil production by saying fine. You guys don't want you don't want to join in and cut. Production will flood the market and drive prices down to almost nothing and Russia said fine will do the same and so these countries are are right now announcing huge increases in the supply of oil that they are going to get out in the next several months and at the same time. Vladimir Putin the leader of Russia has stated publicly that US shale producers Of Oil domestic production here in the United States you shall producers need to pay and he basically wants to put them out of business so the almost overnight how this past weekend Oil prices dropped by twenty five percent and they have continued to drop through early in the week and so prices are are at the lowest. They've been in at least five or six years and even when they when they did this last time they they did not remain this low for a very long time on but with with more increases in supply. They're being announced. It seems like every day other nations are announcing their increase their supply We haven't seen the worst of this. And so this means a couple of different things number one The United States oil producers have a higher cost of production than than Russia and Saudi Arabia. So they're gonNA suffer and likely if nothing changes. They are going a lot of them are going to go out of business stopped producing oil. So we're going to be importing a lot of our oil where also means is that countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia remember. Russia is a country that buys a large amount of the for that we produce here in in the United States. As while for producers and Russia's economy is very dependent on the price of oil and their their oil revenues so it appears that Russia is less concerned about the economic wellbeing of people there. And they're more concerned punishing the United States Shell oil producers Because they're going to drive this oil prices low as they can get it I think the hope is that long-term the US producers who are have been taking a greater and greater share of the market because of this big shale oil boom in the western United States. The hope among other countries in the world is that the low prices will force a US shale producers to go out of business and then they can jack the prices back up But that's something that will take years to accomplish if if indeed it can be accomplished and I don't know as as our political leaders in the United States are going to allow that to happen but that is not directly related to trapping so I won't go into more detail except to say that the two big things here. The Corona virus and the oil prices are are two two huge huge issues. That have just come up in the past. Several days and the stock market has been tanking. IT IS I. It seems to be going lower every day. It'll bounce a little up just a little bit and drop back down and so the market is in really really difficult shape right now. All of these things affect the price for wild for and so even as of the things that I said in last week's podcast as of last week Situation has already changed so much That I don't know how accurate anybody's predictions were as of just a week ago. So I believe what I said. Was that yes. We're in a low in the market but I think we may possibly be pleasantly surprised by the results of the For Harvesters auction coming up. That is still a possibility But it's a looking glass in Lhasa. Likely as information changes we have to change Our Outlook and I think that The main issue here is it. You know oil plays a part in it for shore That's more of a longer term issue but the immediate issue is the corona virus and China has Really clamped down on. It's It the people in the country. They've they've had these mass quarantines people haven't been going to work people have been producing things. It is interrupting supply chains throughout the world because a lot of stuff is produced in China. China also uses a lot of raw materials. China uses a lot of raw for and makes it into further coats and other items that are sold to people in other countries. There is a potential here that these quarantines are going to the corn teens and the related fallout from that is going to cause huge disruption in the wild for market in the short term. I think there's potential that buyers are not going to be able to get for China so if that is the case which we know as we've heard you know either way whether that's a reality but indications are that maybe that's where we may be headed and if they don't allow any firm to China We're GONNA have a hard time selling are for and so the big thing that I just saw today was a Grunwald for wool company. Just made this big announcement as of March eleven. Which is the day that I am recording this all. Usa routes are suspended. Unfortunately in groenewold again remember is Probably the biggest pro one of the biggest private buyers wild for in the United States if not the biggest they say unfortunately due to the unprecedented conditions in the wild for industry we will only be accepting Rakai O. N. beaver at our forest facility. All you that's that's where their main basis but again girl typically runs routes all throughout the country. All United States routes are suspended at this time. Canadian depots remain scheduled. When the situation improves we will consider rescheduling the suspended routes. So they're not. They're not driving around taking any for right now. This is a big deal Without getting into too much detail like I did Texts with Kyle. Cots cost brothers lures. He has a good handle on the pulse of the firm market and You know there's there's a lot of potential downside right now. Let's just let's just put it that way so basically from from the time you hear this you're GonNa if you listen right off you're going to be about ten days out from the for Harvesters Auction And I don't know as anybody knows what's going to go on an auction I think this is you know for a long time. We've been saying will. This is going to set the the market for wild for a markdown. He has said that. I've I've agreed with him on that and You know this is the first major auction where there's a bunch of buyers and a bunch of for Vailable and people competing for firm will really know how things shake on what the market's doing because of these disruptions these potential disruptions. I'm not sure that we're GONNA have a true Real free market situation here now. There are some reasons to maybe be a little bit. Optimistic number. One for harvesters has a full fully functioning remote bidding where buyers can stay remain rate in China and they can bid from China on on wild for for that action so in theory. Nobody even needs to show up at F- at the The location in Toronto To bid on fern at that doesn't need to happen so that's that's not going to theoretically that would not affect Buying her there there has been you know. Fha They want to get this first old and they want to get as many buyers as possible and they're working to do that. My understanding is that they have the ability to provide some incentives for buyers including lowering the commission rates and the biggest thing in my opinion Holding on agreeing to hold onto for for a set amount of time So that in the event that there are issues with importing for into China at there there will be time for these fair buyers and China to sort that out and so this all kind of remains to be seen the there. There's just there's no real solid information about what's going on because I don't know as anybody knows for sure exactly what's going on what's going to happen over the next several days in several weeks. My thoughts my advice Remember that second part of Warren Buffett statement be greedy when others are fearful when the market goes down like this. I mean if if if you're a risk taking type of person this might be an excellent opportunity to get your buyers license and go out and start picking up some cheap raccoon and Muskrat and beaver and put him in freezers When everybody's panicking it's likely that the downside is lower than it really should be based on all the economic indicators and all the the situation supply and demand and and what actually what the market actually should look like in a rational situation people just Make decisions based on on fear and emotion so I think this is an opportunity for somebody to make a whole heck of a lot of money because we may see some very loafer prices moving forward but we we also may see some pretty substantial recovery in the next couple of years. This corona virus thing is temporary. We know that because China Their first cases were just a few weeks ago and they already appear to have mostly contained The just the the most recent update I saw was China announced ten new cases in the last day. And so they they put these strict quarantines in place they shut everything down and it appears to have been successful in stopping the virus from further spreading at some point this is going to Other countries are gonNA figure this out. come up with practical quarantine measures and get this Get this thing taken care of and figured out. Slow down And then of course within the year we should have a vaccine based on Most people's opinions that are in the industry. There should be a vaccine ready for this. And then it'll be something that's considered maybe not much different than the regular flu. There's going to be a disruption in markets all across the world for all different items in wildfire is no exception however we are. This is a temporary situation. We are going to recover from it and remember. There's only a limited amount of wild for out there. The economics of the Ranch for industry have not changed the supply in there and she hasn't changed has been the huge glut of ranch mink in in the markets that is going to dry up in the next year or two. It's taken a little longer than we expected. Because of all these other things going on economically however at some point that's going to dry up in is going to be a few years before ranchers Re vamping their supply and in raising more animals in their only gonNA do that when prices recover. A wildfire is a limited quantity Very limited supply as a very low supply right now when the demand comes back. There's not gonNA be as much for out there available on the market as there was in the past so I think the future is still bright for wildfire And and that's not a popular view. Most people don't agree with that because most people think based on emotions most people think based on what has just happened. Not What is going to happen? I don't say that I don't say that to be condescending. I don't say that to to act like I know anymore than anybody else don't But I just look at the facts that everybody else has access to and I may be things a little bit differently. I think I think we're still headed for better prices in the next couple of years. This this these two big punches of the oil prices and the krona virus have just kind of delayed things by six to twelve months perhaps But but we see this everywhere we see this in the beef cattle industry a little bit and we see this with cattle You know supply and demand in cycles. With any commodity. You'RE GONNA see those ups and downs and in everybody. The producers are all Reacting on what has happened in the past and and very few of them are proactive. Thinking about the future but those few are the ones that are the most successful and they're the ones that stand business When things are low those are the guys that That boost their supply that are buying into markets when prices go and are there to sell when prices are high. And there's all kinds of people trying to get in so just keep that in mind. I don't know most of you probably that's not gonNA affect you Those of you. Who have for in the for harvesters auction. I wish you luck. You know I've got quite a bit of for and they're not you know not a lot compared to a lot of other guys but I've I've got probably half of the value of the further. I've I've trapped this year is going to be in that auction. So how we'll see. We'll see how that goes and I'm still hopeful. I'm still hopeful that we're gonNA see some good prices particularly for for coyotes Maybe some Bob Cat The rest of them it. It's GonNa be a toss up. We're just GONNA have to see what happens. I would not be surprised if a lot of the for if if things get out of hand with this Kiruna virus and the Chinese buyers just are not showing up or not participating the furthest not sold so you know I don't think. Fha Is GonNa give her away. I I don't think they are have ever been in the habit of doing that. trappers and they're looking out for our best interest so At at the worst case scenario were probably GONNA see things get held over and in this case. That might be a good thing I've I've always been a proponent of Oh let's let's just get the pain over with and let the market you know do what the market does and then come back from it That's why I think corrections in the Stock Market for instance are good thing because they're necessary in my opinion for To maintain a healthy market when things go up and up and up and up and they threaten to go down just a little bit in the Federal Reserve cuts interest rates and the government provides stimulus improved. Prince money does everything to try to keep the market from going down. I think you're further inflating bubble. That's going to burst at some point. So pain is okay because pain is necessary in markets that being said because this is such a temporary situation temporary in nature due to the this manic craziness that's brought on by the corona virus. I think that it would be a good thing to pause at the pause button. A little bit and just let things play out. Let the panic and fear subside. A little bit and then get back to business as usual so worse case scenario. I think that's what happens but stay tuned. I'll update you if there's anything else that comes up Not Not any more expert than anyone else in in this firm market but I just hope that that provides you a little bit more information on where we're at moving forward all right. That was the first market update. So now I WANNA get into back into Alaska trapping This is a little piece of an interview to. It's a short portion of Jim and I at the cabin in the Bush Alaska from a couple of weeks ago. And we're just talking we record the short segment talking about snaring there in Alaska. Thoughts gyms thoughts my thoughts my reaction to the You know snaring overall because for me. I can't snare on land here in Maine so it was a completely new learning experience for me to set up those snares for links and we also talk about Wolf snaring Wolf trapping a little bit and Ferber population so hope you enjoy this. There's a couple more segments like this. That are coming up and then I had an awesome conversation with trapper from Minnesota Just the other day. That was great and I look forward to sharing that with you as well In the coming episodes so lots more to come I just set up a couple of beaver lodges under a snaring here today this morning and a couple more to set up in in the coming days in in lots to Lots I'm sure there'll be lots to talk about there as well so all kinds of topics to get into. Thanks for tuning in glad to have you guys here as always and In hoping joy this traps versus snares where your thoughts I really liked. Snares traps are good to snares when you catch him they die really quick so they're usually frozen and they're frozen solid. You gotTA THUMB OUT SOMETIMES. Earn a weird configuration. A thought out link doesn't take up much room in your sled but a frozen one can and then you have to worry more bottom rubbing because our stiff but vita I didn't use snares I think some years I get seventy percent of and in Snare really yeah right down when I catch him in. Yeah yeah so I usually if I set a trap by put at least one or two. Maybe four snare dependent on the area around it and a lot of link will come around the smell the lure the Bait. No walk around. You'll get him to snare and they won't. Yeah they won't like when I saw back here by this little lake the track. Yeah he's got to go check on check that tomorrow. 'cause I I re I remained that guy. That guy's pretty wised up. He's walking by a lot of sets. Yeah guys breeders. 'cause they're hard to catch what you walked up to the trap your great by the trap and he kind of made one pot one pop print. Maybe a foot away from the trap. It's kind of like he faced towards the because he smelled allure and then he turned he kept going and then he also either coming or going he walked around. One of the snares. Yeah Yeah sometimes. They're just started. Catch told you one winner had to really difficult catch. And they were big ice. And when I got him trapped when I got a trap maniac like he's mad at me but he was a big one and he would just plow the brush around he walked around the surge plow. Sometimes they'll jump over snares really. Yeah what what is this? I don't know what makes them jump. But you'll see tracks on one side and then they land on other this one got his front leg and neck. You got. Yeah you got his front leg in the snare so did he. Was He like reaching with one pot while he's pushing his head through that there might not have been centered. You know there might have been. I'm thinking he was off center. Maybe one of the guide sticks filled our somebody got his but he did get his head through there yeah. I don't know very big loop compared to the size of his head really when you usually making money and inch diameter so and you like you at the bottom pretty good. I do some guys. Leave a gap there. Sometimes you can just set them with no nothing but you kinda take a chance to set them. Send them out in their trail in the open. Like a blind set. I don't do that very often kind of like the when I talked with Ron Jones. The Guy from New Jersey does eventually us much of snaring all kinds of different trapping but he talks about the eighty twenty rule and you know. Eighty percent of the eighty percent of them are the dumb ones and twenty percent. Might be those breeders. Yeah and we're like there's a couple different ways to think about it. You can think well I just want to catch the ball just trapper. I don't care about the twenty percent. I'm going to catch the eighty percent. Spend my time on those. And then the other argument is well if I make my set a little better that swear catches one hundred percent of the length of the animals than I get the eighty percent and the twenty percent. Yeah those guys the ones that walk around walk by your sets. I've had stepped right by the trap. Snip if you keep trying you'll get him in and sometimes I don't know what made him slip up. You know they'll get in a trappers snare. Yeah and a lot of times probably don't like if you So many traps you. You might make a few adjustments but you may not remember what did I put an extra blocks down this trap and then when you catch of course destroyed the all your center. There was one winner when they're worth quite a bit of money back in the nineteen eighties and My wife and I are still a traveling on her kids and I get home and I couldn't. They wouldn't go to the sets walk up to him and I was covering traps like a Fox trap. Yeah because there was a lot of money and they'd walk in. There weren't a lot of guys trapping to cover them with snow. Yeah and tell my wife. I'm catching Fox in these linked sets. But I'm not catching the link and usually you don't catch him any you do but not that many but because I was covered them up and just trying to hide them but eventually catch him. But I don't know why that what the trip them up you know. Sometimes I said trail sets forum blind sets some as you could just put it right in their footprint. Cover it. You'll get them. They're walking around the same place a lot. I don't do too much of that unless they're here. No like I've had one medic Animal Lincoln. It was walking in and out of your retirement catcher linke at a little trail Gordon. And that's how I got him. Put it in his footprint but I had three traps at there when I got him. He had three three traps on him. He started jumping around. Gotten the other two. Yeah he looked pretty hopeless. I think it was actually. She was female. Yeah sheet about to link that had cotton stairs. I got her figured she hanging around forever. Heating Link Yeah. They're Kinda cannibalistic. Wolverine Yeah following your line. What do you think about them as far as you know? Are they really catch? Wolverine hard to catch you to catch population-wise Some of them are easy to catch but some of them are really difficult. They probably have been caught before. Yeah and probably she'd use more Khanna bears. We set one today. Yeah that was something pretty cool. The first time I've ever set a three thirty on the ground and I wasn't breaking any laws. Oh man we could do a whole podcast episode on this and I want. I don't want to say Get into too much As recording this most recently podcast. That came out was I talked to a guy from Massachusetts Massachusetts trapper and he was just a man. What a what an enthusiastic guy and dedicated guy to be trapping in a state where you can almost can't trap yeah. I don't think I want to trap there. Well I'm kind of thinking after a few days here. I don't know if I want to trap in Maine Anymore. Every single I made would be illegal in main last two days. I can't think of a single legal set the last two days. But it's not. It's not just that it's you don't have to think about it like you can focus on trapping you can. You can look at this situation and this call for snare foothold you know. Where should I sit here which they do in in you can just like you have every option at the table you know? Yeah in this one particular spot. You'd had a wolverine had been hanging around there today. We don't link there last time I checked it and so you know it was spot where Jim thought that this would be good place to put a three thirty so we said we would box. And and Put a piece of Link Lake in the back of it and put a three thirty now. Of course understandable. You can't do that in other places where you've got people and dogs around stuff but This is this is kind of the middle of nowhere in this is really true freedom when it comes to trapping and we went about five hundred feet past maybe five hundred pass that set in there was a all in wolf trail. Yes yeah did you. What do you think about like I walked up twenty year stairs just to make sure I was doing similar? Yeah you'll ask your second one and I noticed you had the two sticks they probab- I was thinking making out. My Wolf Snares subtle compared to maybe some of the links stuff. Yeah you don't want to put a lot of block it off. They seem to be a more vicious or suspicious. Yeah Yeah you don't WanNa you don't WanNa put a lot less brush area and just kind of a natural but You know want US block. Maybe a couple of little willow sometimes even just pointed angle. It away put it. Further way pointed towards the snare. Okay yeah that makes sense. Yeah instead of putting it near the snare right. Yeah sometimes you just put it over there trail. I also tried to make it. I was kind of like thinking okay. I'm a walking down the trail and I tried to put it because I'd heard about I'd read about this somewhere longtime ago but I tried to put it where there's like a little kink in the trail where they're like little bend and so so when they get toward the snare. They're looking ahead to see where they're gonNA go as opposed to look in in front of them where they could see the stair. Yeah one thing I do. I don't want to do is set it where they see it before they go into the brush. Yes snare I try to avoid that where they could possibly see it. Put back in a little ways. There was we were on. You are in one trailer to reset your stairs. I just one on one and two big main trails going back in there in those two where we said to snares on the trails and they come together and now kicking myself. Because I'm thinking I probably should set on that next time we go and check. Those got more will start. I didn't know they came together and I guess I didn't go back that far. Yeah like you're you can still see your last year in my last year because I thought it would kind of an out in the open too much so I just before it goes in the open it drops down a little dip. Yeah they walked down put traps there. They walked down through some brush than than that. Israel opened up. We could put a trap under you have any wolf. I don't hang around the cabin but I have. I have several watch. Those are a little more expensive than most of you. Don't want them to pick up Santa. Either Oh yeah yeah. They're worth money. I did change into my clean. I had a set of gloves. I haven't worn yet and I change into those before I touch the snares just on avoid the smell and smell. That was pretty crazy today. I'm that slew though. Like those those tractor Massa the wolves yeah sometimes also I was looking at Moose tracks in and They it's just I don't. It's pretty cool scene because you go from the area where you might see you get are few rabbit tracks and you get a link strack and and then there's not too much and then all sudden tour those Wolves Warriors. Boom boom boom boom boom. Yeah they were splitting up on that slow going single file a lot must be looking for a most everybody's looking for a most Wolves do you see years where you have more wolves or less wolves pretty steady. I don't really. I don't seem like it's usually about the same but I could be wrong. Wolverines take up and down there. There's a lot now. Because they're less guys trapping with price furlough. They're easy to knock their population because they don't have big litters and there was a lot of guys trap and you might get you. Make all year without catching on which is fine. Because they don't eat a bunch of your yeah but usually catch to best I ever did was six but that was when hardly any guys were trapping we got two years in row and then and which surrogate and to break that this you could you could only get ten. We'll see I thought we'd see tracks around this trip. Yeah well they could still show up. You think it's just because we got a lot of snow I think so. Yeah Yeah I'm Rachel. You're was walking around the cabin there. In December yeah yeah. I'm hoping mine got him though. Yeah maybe the by the little pond back there to track reset those two traps together and yeah the the step here. The one with the trappists step here on the piano. That really works. Chaffetz got that written on probably. That's the only this conversation piece. The educating link that can read kind of a lot of pride I want to show you. They know how to read and they stepped right on. So where are you GonNa talk about that? The Martin population in how that that kind of that waiver Martin that came down into this area years ago and was here. The whole we talked about it when we did the interview months ago about the overlap. How links and Martin don't overlap. They don't seem to not very much in really. I thought it was interesting pattern. Historically when you talking about back in back in the day days when when you guys were were catching Oughta Martin here. Yeah when we first started trapping we didn't even Oughta trap and we cut thirty five link and then the link were dropping off. Think we cut to Martin or one and then this is not known to be Martin Habitat and that was kind of historical link but when you look at it like for me looking at the market looks like it should be more than half. Yeah so the link dropped off in the Martin came back up but but we caught like my brother caught. It went from thirteen sixty five. This is Martin number went from thirteen to sixty five. Then we catch over one hundred one year we caught on this line. We caught one hundred sixty five or seventy and from nothing from basically. Yeah actually maybe. We caught one hundred ten on this line or so because we caught fifty other point. I don't say the name that yeah and that was Martin country but we only trapped there six weeks to get those fifty but So then let's see eighties. I'd get like fifty to seventy and then last year I saw him and I was having to go. Further north closer to Martin Habitat. I got thirty five and I didn't catch any Downer down around here but Guys Martin. Well we had a line of Martin Habitat. There was Martin Everywhere. When you got up in the hills more than here but now all we saw one. Martin Track One Jack. Yeah I got to trap set for Martin. You probably haven't caught any Martin last several years. Yeah a few years ago. I got ten when there wasn't many link around two. That's pretty amazing. How it just like how that can happen on such a large scale was pretty fascinating to me and then you talked about the old timers and in how well I talked. I guess I thought well did that happen. Did that also happen back? When James Carroll was one hundred years ago it could I don't know like nineteen ten or tourney? Yeah I don't know either. I don't know it could have happened before wasn't around. Oh I don't remember people talking about it but it did seem like people always. There's certain areas are always some art in the link. Go Up and down. Pretty regular cycle seventy the cycle in the seventies. When a lot of money they didn't it didn't get very high dropped off. Yeah I got twelve and I thought it was doing pretty good but I caught Martin make an Fox too so but but the link where was I? Don't know what they weren't worth five hundred they're worth like maybe two hundred which was still good the especially back then by a lot of gas for two hundred dollars yeah.