Crimson Tide With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan
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You deserve get state farm like a good neighbor state farm as there get quote or find an agent at state farm dot Com Russell brought to you by the Ring Dot com as well as the ringer podcast network where you can find a bunch of fantastic pop culture. Podcast like the big picture. Tv concierge the watch binge mode the list just keeps going check out. All those seal the BAG CR CRIMSON. Tide is coming up next this summer. Long arms drill for survival so we don't know what this message means made. A decision would be fought by two men. If we're wrong billion people are going to die. We are shipping. See their duty differently. We'RE HERE TO PRESERVE DEMOCRACY DENZEL WASHINGTON NACHMAN CRIMSON TIDE. God help us all radar starts. Friday may twelve man. What a satisfied moving show fantasies. Sarah Chris Ryan is here. It's twenty fifth anniversary Crimson. Tide a move that had denzel Washington Minute Gene Hackman and Tony Scott Directing it and was really the tail end of Simpson Bruckheimer. And all the stars were aligned. There's a lot of buzz. The movie came out. It was great everybody loved it made a lot of money. The end what did I Miss Sean. While we just moved way to quickly pass one of the most incredibly enjoyable movies made in the last. I don't know in the last half century. Wears this on. The list of the most fun really watches that we could possibly do on this. Show Chris I. This is a a longtime Chris. Ryan All Star this movie. I was just saying Craig before we started recording that this might be the leader in the clubhouse for the movie I restart as soon as it's over or at least go back and watch some of my favorite scenes right after I finish this movie. It's I I think it all comes down to whether intentionally or not because it had a lot of different screenwriters working on it. It is a perfect perfect script. Yeah like if somebody was against this movie I would just be confused. You should put this on the ringer questions that we ask potential hires. What do you think of Crimson tide? That's good it does a when it came out it came out in nineteen ninety. Five could come out right now. I don't think there's a single modern advancement that would have affected this movie in any way. it moves perfectly doesn't really drag. It's got to iconic actors going head to head in a real way. I think that was probably part of the appeal for both of them. Even being in this movie and then Tony Scott at the stage of his career when he's just like I'm going to up the degree of difficulty here. I'm going to make a sub a make a sub really exciting. How am I going to do that? A. Figure it out and then an all star cast like this is where it gets into Sean CATNIP. An All star cast of just Weirdo famous screenwriters coming into just work on a see. This is like the the apex of Robert Town. Hey Robert A. Y Are you one hundred thousand dollars for us. It's the heavy bag of script. Punch-ups love it. Where was William Goldman? Have been like I bake ation when they needed like the one hackman thing. It's got all the stuff we like in one movie basically What what they busy though? There's how many female characters total in this movie. Just Denzel ends wife and that's it. She only gets to mouth her line. She doesn't actually get to say she's going so no. It does not pass the test. It's the most bill it's the most male movie probably ever made right sat over one hundred actors. They're all guys it's amazing it's way up there if it does God. It just feels like it's in a test tube. Though it's it gives us a chance to talk about the biggest and best movie stars. I I think Tony Scott is currently the leader in terms of most movies. Who that have been tackled on the watch. Either Scott or Michael Man and I think this is Scott at his. You know I don't Wanna get ahead of myself. But this is like him at the peak of his powers with what he's able to do as a storyteller and yeah. We got all that fun behind the scenes stuff about who came in a punch up this story. It's is such a fun. Propulsion Movie Movie critics always use that pat phrase on the edge of your seat but I literally was again on the edge of my seat in the second hour of this movie. I was like Holy Shit. Where's this going? I've seen a two thousand five times but I still completely locked in the thing. I think that makes this movie so successful. If I had to boil it down it goes back to the script is that it's an end then. Script not a because script like most action movies or thrillers are basically a Buffet. Line of cool set pieces and cool moments but even in like really good action movies. You'll have moments where you're just like well. This doesn't have anything to do with that. You know like there is not an ABCD it's like a L. R. S. This movie literally. Nothing happens unless something happens right before you know what I mean like hunter and web SCO to a birthday party in the first scene that matters throughout the entire fucking movie that Vigo Mortenson Denzel Washington were at the same birthday party and it comes up like three or four times in terms of character. Behavior decisions that they make. And it's a you could actually teach at class. There is like forget checkoffs gun. It is Chekhov's every single line and gesture in this movie winds up mattering if we did. The re- watches like an award. Show for the REWATCH. Ables I. I don't know how we would do that. Or what? The criteria would be how he figured it out but I do think Tony Scott would win the first director award just kids sisterly amazingly re watchable and I you know you could see why Tarantino had so much affection for them. When we did the speaking of Tarintino he was the one who pointed out that Tarantino and Tony Scott as as a team he felt like was the most underrated team of all the teams they did. Four move is. This is the first one and in each one as we covered in previous pod. A different version of Denzel. This is upstart Denzel. This is respectful upstart trying to work his way up trying to respect authority but at the same time a man of real conviction denzel nothing. In common with unstoppable Denzel Man on fire Denzel. What was the fourth one? I'm blanking on Dejavu Deja Vu. Yeah there you go so good collaboration here and also there's a Tarantino connection because he actually is one of the Betty people who does rewrites on this so it's Tarantino Robert Town and who is the third one. Will the credited screenwriters is it? Michael Schiffer correct. Yes credited Steve's Steve Elliott ripe the three of the top seven screenwriters ever top eight yeah up ten Saliva Oscars yeah all famous. Denzel's out really weird point in his career in a good way. He so he does about Comex in ninety. Two PELICAN. Brief Ninety three which doesn't go the way people wanted it to go especially because they had to cut the love scene out because America's sucked the nineteen ninety three and they didn't want Julian Zelda consummate whatever still a big hit though big hit but frustrating movie Philadelphia which you know Him Versus Hanks. It's crazy that they're in the same movie really in their primes Denso's characters that that well in that movie but it's a really good performance. Then two years passed and then he rips off Crimson. Tide virtuosity devil in a blue dress. Courage under fire and the preacher's wife all in a row and basically everything just keeps going all the way through Remember the titans at Training Day. Two thousand two thousand one. It's a ten year run of just successful. Awesome picks off choices. What you Sean. What do you think he was searching for here in the mid nineties because it does seem like the Hackman piece was a big piece for him. I think that this is really the first time that he pursues mainstream movie. Stardom this is the this is the end of phase one and the beginning of phase two for him so he still wants to do something that seems sort of prestigious and this is a great script and it's a cool movie but it is a is a mainstream action thriller. It's not you know it's not working with Spike Lee. It's not Mississippi Masala. It's not looking for a deeper meaning or cultural subtext. It's a it's a down the middle two big stars squaring off against each other. Which is we talked about this. On enemy this date one of the hallmarks of late Hackman and Denzel knows that in order to be the sort of the biggest possible story can be. He has to start taking on more movies. Like this. And it's funny because you could make the case on the back. Half of his career he takes on too many movies like this and maybe not enough. Malcolm X's but he clearly made a choice here where he was like I need to. I need to find commercial filmmakers and work with them because he's best known here for glory and Malcolm X. and you know. He makes movies like ricochet but he hasn't fully committed to this idea. And this is the start of the new Denzel. Yeah he finds his tour for those kinds of movies. It feels like Denzel Washington somebody who is really comfortable with Certain caliber filmmaker and in Tony. Scott he kind of found his the action version of maybe the Spike Lee on the drama side. The person that he really trusts to take it back to Tarantino what. I was watching this last night. I was thinking of back to the The MUSSO and frank seen in once upon a time in Hollywood with Al Pacino. And the way that he kind of talks about the hurdles. You have to clear as a movie star and the ways in which you can slip too but I was thinking so much about. This is a movie that you do to show that you are the next Hackman. You know you go through Hackman you go through the guy to be the guy and I think they even in the movie itself I would love to know the notes that Bruckheimer and Simpson gave about what these characters were allowed to do to each other like. He's allowed to be this racist. This this much racist but not totally racist or Denzel allowed to like Beat him psychologically mentally but he never punches him. He never physically harms Ramsey. You know like there's these rules that they've script seems to play by that the movies to play by and I wonder if a lot of that is tied up in the persona of the movie stars. So dense out defeats Wesley Snipes. Mark Corrects them completely by around ninety. Three it's basically those two going toe to toe for all the same parts and then from I would say Philadelphia on. I would say he's the first pick for basically any first of all any movie where they're looking for a black actor but then movies like this where you and we'll go into the casting. What ifs. It's all the a-listers and I still feel like if he's not the first pick. He's one of the first names discussed I. I think there's by ninety five. It's very clearly him in Hank's and Russell Crowe's coming you know in a couple years. Costner has already happened and I'm trying to think. Is there anybody else was crews doing crews and will Smith Will Smith? Has It happened yet and cruise. Yeah I guess so crews will be the third one and ironically this is a cruise part the denzel part but it's a completely different performance and trajectory. You know but it'd be the he would have definitely a few good bended up a little bit Ben. A little more brash. There would have been that. That guy would have been more sarcastic. I actually. This is one of my favorite Denzel performances of all of them. He really he. He plays it all perfectly the that thing. He has with the respect but what he could do with his is at the same time where it's like. I'm falling the order of how my job is but I don't really feel this way deep down inside. He's one of the few guys that could pull it off. You know what I mean. It's a subtle face performance movie because Hackman is the same way to guys who do a lot without saying a lot and Hackman self regard early in the movie the way that he sort of philosophizing and then looking at Denzel face every time Hackman goes into something and then later in the movie right before they have their showdown the subtle insinuations that they're communicating to each other with very little dialogue is amazing and there's great dialogue in this movie. It's fun talking movie. But the the impact of the tension I think is all built around Hackman knowing how to how to just very powerfully deliver. How angry he is about something without saying a word. You could say that the first hour this movie is like one of the best workplace movies ever made you know. Just the amount of stuff that gets communicated in the officers mess seen when they're sitting and talking about climates or just anytime they're doing a walk and talk and Gene Hackman is giving him kind of like man. Fuck you look like because you see I can. I can feel you define me. Even if you're not explicitly saying it. I was really struck this time. By how quick how quickly it goes bad. There is actually not very. They don't have. They don't spend very long on hunter and Ramsey getting along. They pretty much go wrong right after that first dinner. And you can even see seeds of it before that You can see seeds of it and with like. Oh my reading this right. You went to Harvard. You know everything also with it being Washington. It has a layer of racial tension in there and they aren't really afraid of it but they also don't explicitly say it. Yeah that the three minutes when they're waiting to see they can the radio or not read at the end which I know doug by later everything Denzel Hackman do in that one part where it's like all right. I guess we're GONNA wait. Two minutes. Denzel sits down. He's been hit the face twice. He's so fucking mad but he's trying not to be mad and you know I in the wrong hands. That would have been such a bad scene. You you would like the Denzel characters stared down Hackman or done something to he just he so subtle a battle like it's almost kind of all he doesn't WanNA stare at him too long but they they clearly are size each other up and he's just everything about it is really good. I I was actually surprised that he didn't get Oscar attention for this because it does feel like this was like what. What's a nineteen sixties? Movie like the CAINE mutiny. Nineteen fifties like that era like it does feel like it could be that kind of movie like easily could have been a stage play. It is also right out of a historical playbook there are two really famous submarine movies in the fifties and run silent. Run deep is is very similar to this movie and they may Tarantino. I think added references to this and price part of his punch-up yet run silent. Run deep is Clark Gable. Who's about fifteen years older than burt? Lancaster it's very similar in the dynamic. The roles of those characters in that movie. Play the sort of sort of attempting to UPEND THE POWER. But not directly confronting the captain of the of the sub. And I I mean the other thing to consider here and I know that the Oscars get right but there are not a lot of movies that are led by two time Oscar winners and this is a rare moment when you get a mega showdown. Like they're they're know movies that start Tom. Hanks going toe to toe with Daniel Day Lewis. They just don't exist so you very rarely get this. And then the the subtle thing and I couldn't think of another example this. Maybe you guys. Can you get Jason robards scene at the end of the movie? And you've got three two time Oscar winners toto in one scene. I couldn't think of one other scene in movie history that featured three two time winners. How many Oscar? Winners are in the beginning of enemy of the state when Jason robards him and Jon voight probably did Jon voight. Everyone and Oscar. I don't think so. I thought he went for coming home. He did did he okay. Oh he won't come. Yeah no that's a really good point. Sean. This is essentially. What would happen if they made a submarine action movie out of the Heat Diner scene? I mean they. They never shy away from the confrontation this movie. And that's something that I think you know. Some films would be like. Let's tease it. Or we're going to save it for the Third Act and they just let these guys go at it for the entire film. It really does feel like a stage play and then you add that. It's it's Tony Scott. Right at that point inbetween they the eighties and early nineties stuff. He was doing. That was gorgeous. But kinda classical in its presentation to right when he starting to crank the dial a little bit and he's just GonNa say what time we Vigo Mortenson you're just gonNA see fucking Red Light. That's it and he's just cranking all the smoke coming out of all the hallways and everything is running up down stairwells in this movie and you can really see him. Starting to put together the style that will come in for an enemy of the state and man on fire in the movies coming after it. The midnight is did have. It's a little like what happened with the NBA. A year ago. Where the two guys would team up in the the the move. There's this movie era here like around ninety three and I think it almost starts with hanks and Denzel but then it's Denzel Julia. They they made. It would be this pair and that would be the cell. The movie even interviewed the vampire was like cruise pit. You know and and I don't it kind of faded away. But then I remember when the departed brought her back in those six it was like Scorsese Damon. Dicaprio's like I'm in. I'm done just say that. I wonder why that doesn't happen as much anymore. Why you don't have like these two gigantic stars who are just like fuck it. Let's do something I mean it. Certainly the reason Ocean's eleven did so that they had more than two in that one but the to have the awesome posters like half the battle. We don't have movie stars like that anymore. We don't have. I mean what is the equivalent we do? Have Chris. Hemsworth and Chris Evans in the marvel movies together? But they don't carry the same weight that something like Hackman and Denzel carry and Denzel had spent the last ten years basically building his resume and emerging as one of the best actors of his generation. And then he gets to go toe to toe with. Where's Hackman in the conversation? At this point you know I mean. He's really he's in the top five it's after unforgiven. So he's really still on his victory lap there. We gave them a lot of. So here's the Oscars for ninety six for the ninety. Five move is. This was the year braveheart won. Picture and best director has that has that age like wonderfully for a variety of reasons but especially like we were talking about whether we should do braveheart for the Rewatch ables and we all kinda voted no Ziad. It's like two or three seen movie. It's like the best scenes at one or two other scenes. It's not like A. Let's let's fire brave art it's it's an MBA jumbotron movie. I think became its legacy best actor Nick Cage leaving Las Vegas or other nominees. That year were Richard Dreyfuss Mr Holland's opus. Yeah yes now. They'll make a face sean. See that's why we're not inviting you to the Mr Hans. Opus rewatch us. Well be that one is known for US Solo Sad to miss out on that one. One for Bill Anthony Hopkins in Nixon inexplicable champagne dead man walking and then The guy from opus. Say His name Sean. I'm knockin tempted. Massimo trio see Tracy Tracy so best supporting actor Spacey Usual Suspects James Cromwell and Babe Ed Harris Apollo Thirteen Brad. Pitt twelve monkeys. Tim Roth Rob Roy. This movie just got shut out. I mean also ninety five is a is a really really it's a bad oscars year historically because the movies that came out that outlasted this movie seven and he and Casino and Oh yeah he clueless and I mean it's A. It's a really good movie year. It's a really good mainstream movie year and we're celebrating some of them with twenty th anniversary. This year on the show at like toy story came out this year. There's a ton of stuff that has so aggressively outlasted. Il Postino and and you know braveheart. Apollo thirteen is a good movie. That's a legit nominee. Sean is this also a case of like kind of classical Oscars thinking. We're movie that comes out in. May just has a really hard time making noise like that. Maybe I think that they just don't take this seriously. We take this really seriously on the show and the Oscars just never gonNa take me. Tony Scott just doesn't make Oscar winning movies which is part of the reason why were always re-litigating them on this show. I recant by should've got an Oscar nomination because I forgot. He came out this year. Hey Chris Yeah I had coffee with McCauley go. What did we do the reheat? I can't wait to have a guest have to have a third person this time Couple of other things about this movie Denzel. Once upon a time he was asked. Who are the most talented actors you've ever worked with? Gene Hackman was one Angelina. Jolie Dakota really tough beat for Tom. Hanks and the goat conversation then sells like well He. He only named people who could not be fully compared to him. No one from his generation to women and an screen legend. Who's got twenty years on him? Which is a very that we know. Denzel's very competitive. You know he's an athletic. I Love Sports. He would never dare put Brad. Pitt's name in that conversation. You would never put hanks's name in that conversation Chris. You could get killed walking doggy. Oh came on the fucking sorry so Denzel. Apparently not only took this movie because Gene Hackman is in it but said quote. He wanted the opportunity to be in their jousting with a master. It's so crazy how this is a recurring theme in these rewatch. We do like every younger. Peer Gene Hackman would've had is like I just want to be at a movie with that guy. It's it's weird that he doesn't get. I don't feel like the respect like the way people talk about. Brando you know and that level. I'm not saying he was as good an actor Brandon. But he's just never mentioned when we were talking about the grates which will probably change when he dies. And everyone's like Oh my God. Gene Hackman was so great. And it'll be this whole posthumous You know everybody go nuts about gene hackman for six months yeah. He doesn't do a lot of image maintenance Seattle. He's pretty pretty private. He's not courtside at Lakers Games. He doesn't do a lot of lifetime. Achievement award circuits kind of thing. So it's really just the work with him he doesn't i. I was reading a bit about him last night. And there was an interesting interview with Owen. Wilson about working with him on was behind enemy lines. Is that the movie that they made together. Yeah Wilson said that hacking was one of his heroes and he really made that movie because he wanted to work with him and he made an interesting point that I'd never really considered before about certain actors. Which is that gene. Hackman never doesn't accent. He never changes his hair. He never wears prosthetics he never transforms and he still has the credibility of not just a movie star but of great actor. It's very rare that those big stars are also considered great crafts people and you know a cruise crews have great actor but we think of him primarily as a movie star with Hackman for whatever reason his rep is that guys. He's a legendary performer. And that's part of the reason why he's like. He maintains the Hackman Quality. But he doesn't have to go out of his way he's not showy and he doesn't do the maintenance at Christmas talking about I. He doesn't do interviews like they're so few interviews with him. We don't know anything about his psyche. What he likes. We only know the movies he made and he doesn't do that with Rosie shows. Either I mean he was. He didn't play like Nixon. He doesn't do the flashy by historical figures or people dealing with illnesses or anything like that like he's always just kind plead. These ragged guys and whether or not they were generals or sheriffs or private detectives or cops or whatever like he just was always himself. It's a really good point sometimes so grow a moustache Ravin gene. Hackman Mustache in there So this had one of the best Wikipedia one-sentence openers I've ever read for movie. Crimson tide is a nineteen ninety five American submarine film directed by Tony Scott and produced by Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer okay. Where do I get my bone? Marrow sounds awesome then a little bit later. In the same paragraph there's political turmoil and the rest of the Russian Federation which ultranationalists threatened to launch nuclear missiles at the United States and Japan. The story parallels a real incident during the Cuban Missile Crisis Albright aboard a Soviet rather than US submarine gray premise. How do we still the Cuban missile crisis and make it so it happens on an American sub might be immunity like US pitch that room people? Like here's here's twenty five million make this try to get whoever? Here's a list of a-list stars try to get to them will load the rest of that guys. We'll go get Tony Scott were done. We're good to go There's a really good cast in here and I don't know who my favorite is but I think it's Gandolfini but don't sleep on Vigo good some good early Vigo in this. Hey we can't go a second further without talking about Daniel van bargain as Radchenko. This a bargain. Not as first time on the REWATCH ables man Lieutenant Nelson on basic instinct. How yeah and we have little George Jones. We have The guy for Bronx Tale Lilo Bronco Junior. Yeah what an what an IMDB for that guy. And then we have whole bunch of People Rick Schroder. We'll get into later Steve Zahn. We have a favorite Chris. Hans Zimmer Chris. Chris said it was his favourite Hans in preview previous podcasts. They're alleging Hans. Gruber won a Grammy Award for the main theme. And if you'll notice if you listen carefully it's this this. The music from this movie has been used a lot over the last twenty five years most notably in Football Games playoff games. Espn PROFILES ON ZIMMER'S CLEANING UP IF HE's get royalties on all the time. This has been used for sports. He's doing very well The movie made one hundred and fifty seven point. Three million dollars. Raj is coming back three and a half stars. This is the rare kind of war movie that not only throws people out there watching it but invites sent to lead the theater. Actually discussing the issues does it. I don't I don't really remember that part. Where you guys have a lot of really thoughtful conversations about a nuclear sub captains after the. Yeah now be a crazy racist war. Happy Submarine Captain is the big takeaway from this movie. But they take away with was fucking awesome. She would just go to the theater and see it again guys. I don't know who needs to hear this. But we need to have a conversation about our sub captain. Captain Ramsey taught me to be weird. I'm just trying to have the conversation. Okay Chris if you staged a mutiny of Sean how would it go? Who'd you get behind you early? That's a great question. Would you go to mallory right away or go under Valerie? And then try to get her later when she's checkmated. No well what would happen is if I was trying to stage the mutiny. I would go to Mau Mau. Thank you and she'd be like thank me. Fuck you what other. Why aren't there more mutiny movies? What's more fun than a mutiny? It's the best premise. You can have it a movie. I mean this movie is very closely modelled on on mutiny on the bounty on like yeah version and the sixties version and the two characters. The to captain figures in. Those movies are very similar. Here too took Denzel and Hackman's characters you can I mean it's it's not a remake but it's really close in terms of the way that they shape the structure of the whole thing. It's it's a fun. Sports movie premise if they did it like for the the the NBA players playing in the pandemic and we had two sides. And I don't know I've just started ideas out. I would like to see this with the NBA Players Union. Somehow this'll be like Alvin gentry. Shanked Steve Kerr something you know from the bench. That's that's the version of this coaching thing. Phil Jackson Doug Collins. That's right it's a good Josh. Mcdaniels Bill Belichick. Oh yeah the old man's losing it. Tom What if I could get rid of ballot check. Would you stay and then Dante Scar? Nekia is the chief of the boat. He's sure he's he's robards All right let's go to the we'll take a break. We'll go to the categories. Hey if you like movies. There's a good chance you liked TV. And if you like TV. There's a good chance she like billions on showtime we're are doing a podcast called behind the billions with Brian. Koppelman David the Wien. The coke writers and show runners billions after every episode on showtime in their six more. You can listen to behind the billions which is like the director's commentary breakdown of everything that happened on that episode. Subscribe on Apple spotify. Wherever you get your podcasts and speaking of TV podcast TV concierge. Our new podcast. That's exclusive to spotify fifteen minutes or less reviews and previews about TV. Things that are happening. I did one this week. I broke down defending Jacob with Amanda vans that has a new TV plus show and it is enjoyable bad. It's stars Chris Evans. It's not really good. I still like watching it. Get really explain it but if you WANNA listen to that In here all the different shows we talk about. It's probably between six to eight shows a week you can subscribe to TV concierge exclusively on spotify back to this podcast right most reliable seen I. I don't know I didn't know how to do this. The whole book is watchable. The first Hackman Denzel meeting have that in their when. Hackman compare sources to high school girls. It's aggressive horses fascinating. Animals Dummies fenceposts. But very intuitive. In that way. They're not too different from high school girls. They might not have a brain in her head but they do know all the boys WanNa fuck him. They both know everyone wants to fuck him. They do they. That horses are where that is. That is that we're kill horses if recurring theme with Hackman's character this but that they're laying each other out. They're feeling each other out else. Playing perfect they abetted sees. It becomes very clear to him. Oh this guy's one of these guys keep my guard up with this guy next one Hackman Denzel again the the semi confrontation post a post fire and the bottom. The missile drill the unexpected kitchen fire followed by Hackman running the mission Missa missile drill and Dads out in like it. They kinda that's that's when they start going that's when this sparring really begins. I don't be problems with questions or doubts as I said before. I'm not seeking a company kiss asses. We got something to say to me. You SAT and private. Privacy doesn't permit itself then you bite your fucking tongue. Are we clear about that? Commander has a bouncer sailors out there. Just boys boys were training to a terrible none. Thinkable thing if that ever occurs the only reassurance. They'll have that. They're doing the proper thing. He's going to derive from their unqualified belief in the unified tuna command. That means we don't question each other's motives in front of the crew. It means we don't undermine each it means in a missile drill. They hear your voice right after mine without hesitation. That's kind of a bill. Simmons Move. I feel like to call the missile drill while the fires going on. You know. That's the Bill Simmons Seven. Am text like what the fuck are you doing whereas this podcast? You know. That's what you get on. Get on the move. Emergency pod after an earthquake. That's that's a qualified hurts. Had True but guess what it was the right idea. Sometimes you gotta read the missile drill next one is Denzel talking to to The Guy Danny Nucci about silver surfer which is so clearly a Tarantino. Hey Quinton here's here's a suitcase of money just right just a pop culture type scene and I don't even totally understand what's going on in that argument. It's a little dated but I enjoy it. I like the new. Why shouldn't Kirby silver surfer was the only real silver surfer and at the movie set for Shit Benefits Big mobis Fan? He's got out of hand. Push them and push me. I lost my head. Sam Sorry regretted. You're a supervisor. You can get a commission like that. Do you want to stash? You have to set an example even in the face of stupidity. Everybody that reads comic books. Knows that Kirby silver surfer is the only true silver surfer. Am I right or wrong? Answer dead the blow up seen when Denzel Relieves Hackney. That's the one arrest man getting the operating procedures governing the release of nuclear weapons we cannot launch missiles unless both you and I agree this expressly why you'll command must be repeated. It requires my assent. I do not give it. Furthermore you continue upon this course and insist upon. This requires my assent. I do not give. And furthermore you continue on this course it has. It has when he gets relieved. The get Lieutenant Zimmer. Here which apparently was it. Omar to Hans Zimmer Zimmer. 'cause they knew Hud Zimmer was he must've set them in early track. Think everything about it is great. It's a signed me up for mutiny. Coming to ahead scenes all day on the REWATCH officials amid everytime gray overlapping dialogue. Where they're just like basically doing their speeches at the same time like it's so good for the more you continue upon this course and insist upon this launch without confirming this mess is I by the rule of precedent captain with command relations X. Regulation. I believe I left on a charge on mutiny. How tall is Hackman? You think five eleven. They do some some camera stuff with them where sometimes they try to make. It seem like he's taller the Denzel and the scenes but I feel like in real life. They're probably pretty equal when he hits him at the in the last confrontation. Denzel standing on the platform of the of the Khan and Hackman standing below. But when he hits him it kind of like it looks like he's leveled he's level them so I don't have. Tony Scott was doing with the. He's definitely up to some camera chicanery in that. I think all the top top gun Tom Cruise Steph must have fucked up where he's like everybody's gotta stand down these apple boxes or Tom's always got lifts or whatever you know. They do a good job in the scene to where they he does like little. A COUPLE OF QUICK CUTS EVERYBODY. Kinda watching because there's a moment when this is happening if you're just in the subway you're like holy fucking. Shit like what is happening right thing. It's got paralyze watching it. It's don't disagree with me in public and like that whole thing. I when you know that that scene happens when you go back and Rewatch it. It's really interesting. The Denzel Starts Hunter. As soon as the fire happens. Hunter starts saying publicly. Like why is he running a drill right now and he starts in a weird way like hundred never totally like respects the chain of command there like I. I obviously agree with Hunter. But like he does start like chip. Chipping away him in public pretty early in the movie ex. Oh Hunter are we sure? He's good yeah we sure are we sure he had a point coming up next. I had that coming up later. I ever take though but you gotta do it as coward. Can I do this? We'LL CAIN next. I'm GonNa tell you why Hunter was actually in the wrong. Listen you're in a sub? There's a chain of command. It's the military. That's it you if you're GONNA question the lead dog you can't do it with one other person around you. It's complete mistake. He's doing it in a room with other people. It's like the one role in any military. Booby is don't do that. So He's GonNa Lose Hackman from that point on. It's a done deal. I and it's weird that he so methodical in the first thirty forty minutes of the movies. Sizing everything up and Kinda soaking it in. And then that that. I think that's a misfire by him. Personally let me ask you this. Do you think that Hackman's character? Purposefully draws out that that approach from hunter like is in all of the insinuations and comments that he makes in the net debate that they have about the necessity of war. Do you think that he's trying to get him to defy him because he he likes that psychological game he does? It's the whole problem of when he explains the Von Crossroads thing and he's like they they didn't. They didn't want me to know why they just wanted me to pull the trigger and every time Washington is asked to do something he does kind of ask why he asks why they're doing a missile drill right after there's been a fire he asks why we can't go up and get the message if we know that there is half a message up there just to confirm it and he's got all this he's got for everything but Hackman is like I am. I am singular in my pursuit of following this order. But here here's what does make sense. Hackman hired him. He wasn't foisted on them so it almost would have made sense if they had added a scene near the beginning where. Hackman wants to hire somebody else in there like no no. You're going to hire Denzel. He's gone the rise. We gotta get him in there or whatever reason they would wanted to do where it's established in the first twenty minutes as this isn't totally Hackman's guy 'cause then it would make sense why he's testing them. I don't understand why you would test somebody that you hired and you want to succeed in this year. A deranged racist maniac which made it does seem like time was of the essence there. 'cause Reggio was fuel in his bird's baby. Yeah that's true limited time That seems awesome. It's just really great. Everything about it. The music I the words directed Next one is it's a little hacky action movie but I still like it. When they're fighting the sub something gets fired at them they fire back. They hit the classic Tony. Scott everyone cheers the crescendo of music. And then it's like a pause that's like wait a second. They ripped to get a footwork torpedo and then hits them. There's water coming in down below things. Start dropping our guy. George Zuma's like data eighteen thousand seventeen five seventeen and it's just like just you got me got me with this. You gotTa have seen like that in every submarine movie. There has to be a moment when it seems like the sub is going down and you have to save it and even still. I was like Manna. They're going to go down. Wouldn't remember what happened but it really save up and that is I think when the movie right around then is when the movie goes to real time pretty much like the last hour of the movie is pretty much an hour on the submarine that drop and of course. I'm sure what you're going to say. Next is the bilge basing. Yeah I have Well as part of that seeing the That's seal the Bay and Rick Schroder really really got Cambay. Before we all go down some would say this is how he got. Nypd blue with some might say say they've and check out check out his work in I got an early cut of Crimson tide. Look at him. In this seal the base in next scene is Vigo Verse Scandal. Fini versus Zimmer Bingo's big scene FICO's great this Great Vigo. I don't know where you guys stand on Vigo complicated relationship okay. My wife went out of her way to be like. Whoa what a fucking Babe. Because he's so young and you're not used to seeing them now. It used to see him as arrogant and Lord of the Rings or whatever. And he's he's very baby-faced in the movie but is pretty great he's like he's the pivotal character in the movie he they. It is notable that he his accent is popping a couple of times this movie. Because there's like if I were like on this submarine with him. I'd be like what are you amish like? He has a couple of Dutch like like little little accident. Flourishes this has Chris's favorite line you don't put on a condom unless you WANNA fuck. We're thank is fueling. His burst on. What do you think he's doing that why you don't put on a condom unless you Gonna? Fuck? I have that tattooed on my back. Actually I I remember when when HR had talked to. Chris bike stop motivated the rigor employees by yelling. That I can't do that. Hey should I blog about this? No you don't log into wordpress unless you want to blog and then it also has the new Peter. There's only two sides to mutiny. It says there's a lot of like Denzel. Just where he clearly is A. Hey can I have a couple? Just Denzel Lines. Just just throw me a couple couple like that could potentially be a high school yearbook. I like all this. How do we feel about Zimmer Matt Craven he's GonNa come up and recasting couch later I think him and Rocky Carroll are perfect together as kind of like these guys who run up and down the hallway with envelopes? Okay it's just like such a great bit it's a really weird pivot for Rocky Carroll who to that point. I knew as Joey from rock. Remember rock box and to see him in. Uniform is really weird but you know those two guys then they get paired off on. Ncis billion years and years. I mean they've been catching checks off those shows for fifteen years out to my dad his soda later now that NCIS came up To more watchable SEATAC Hackman takes. The boat back includes an iconic extra second-half stare by Denzel had vigo to stay just stares right through him gives them a little extra and then walks away and then the final confrontation. Which I'M GONNA pick as my most remarkable because there's so many pieces includes Hackman hitting him Hack just taken off. I'm not going to be a racist side. He's like fuck it just gonNA become awful person. the God. Help if you're wrong if I'm wrong where war God help us all got. You're wrong if I'm wrong and we're at and then the three. The three minutes of them just kinda stared at each other. Wait for the radio thing. And then the drama the final message being revealed which. I like how they did it where you actually don't. They're verifying that. It's true but you don't know actually what happened. This is a pretty unassailable seven minutes. A greatness for movie What would he got for most through actual? I think my most reliable is actually. The is the first mutiny. 'cause it's because the overlapping dialogue. Because they're fueling their missiles. We don't have time to fuck around. It just gets so torqued up and I know the Donner stallion seeing is is kind of the famous one. But I love the way that those guys go after each other in that first mutiny I agree I feel like that's definitely my favorite part of the movie and it feels like the whole movie turns on that scene but the even the moment right before you see that it's going to go haywire. When Ramsey is like hunter? I've made a decision. I'm captain of this boat. Now shut the fuck up and what happened to yells. You're like Whoa what what's going on here and the movie completely changes. We're all very well aware of when our orders are what those orders mean. They come down from our commander in chief that contain no ambiguity Mr Hunter. I've made a decision. I'm captain to this boat up next time. I like mildly push back. They're GONNA zoom meeting. You should do that totally go. What am I? Guess would put this out on Tuesday. Chris I made my decision. Shut the fuck up what what. Mba owner is the most like to have yelled at somebody. Tillman for Tita Micky Arison. Oh care since good Bunia. What's age the best just some classic Tony? Scott moments like the Y- clearly. Somebody challenged them. Like I bet. You can't make a really captivating two minute. Montage of a sub going into the ocean and Tony Scott Cycle challenge accepted calls. Hans Zimmer is that can you give me some fucking awesome a sub slowly descending into the ocean disappearing music? I've got something special planned. I don't know how he makes that interesting. I am trying to think of like three directors ever who could be two minutes of a subject disappearing into water. Captivating it's probably Spielberg McKiernan. Mcteer showed it you know. He did on October. Which I hope is a real washable one day and then Spielberg is is probably the only other guy who has idea of how to show space and make you feel both claustrophobic. But also understand like you're in the middle of the ocean like that I think the big the big key to that and this Spielberg did it. He would use John Williams to score it and Tony Scott gets to use Hans Hammers music to score a giant metal machine. Moving down into the ocean. Which you're right. Bill could have been so boring and he makes it riveting good just classic nineties Tony In the first Denzel Hackman Argument Denzel. Rabat's off another Denzel Line. In my humble opinion in the nuclear world you true enemies ward. So he's got like seven of those he clearly maybe he pushed for twenty and they may be negotiated down seven but there Vigo when he knows he's going to refuse the launch they cut to Vigo's just bid cigarette. I love that so many guys crushing Marlboro reds on this fucking underwater. I ninety five. I know that like there were smoking sections in restaurants. Yeah there doesn't seem to be a smoking section of the submarine now no way I just wanted to give George Dundas debate because he keeps coming up. The highlights include deer hunter out. He's The wheelchair guy basic instinct two recovered crimson tide and then Og Law and order the lowlights include. He's in about two hundred TV shows and he was The Co lead in the rape of Richard Beck with Richard Crandon in Nineteen eighty-five TV movie. So the actual TV movie encourage you to watch the trailer. It's disturbing. Yeah the rape of Richard Beck so. His career is all over the map. Is that one that you've seen or did you just kind of start ups being Georges Unda? I was looking be and I was like what the fuck is. This went found it. Can I read the plot summary of the rape Richard Beck Dalits here? Richard Back played by Richard. Crna is a police detective who believes that rape victims are quote asking for it when he himself is raped by two male suspects. He comes to question that belief. Wow a what's the worst? Yeah that movie actually happened if you go and Youtube. There's a two minute trailer of it and it's fucking bat shit bonkers but so it so it's it was may twenty seven thousand nine hundred five bill. Should we do a thirty fifth anniversary? Watchable ables listen has discussed many the. There's just an incredible matic of cocaine going on from the eighty six and it fueled a lot of bad decisions. Is that one for bills. That one for Sean. Like I gotta I gotTa keep the stats right here. That's one for nobody As Chris mentioned another what's age the best? The last sixty minutes is basically in in real time which I think you could have argued bite of inspired snake eyes with Johnny Depp. And it's so great with webster doing the clock and it's just such a great visual cue. And then Sean. In other words age the best you mentioned just robards unaccredited just comes flying in off the top rope incredible and just throw it a hundred for like ninety seconds. Yeah it's good either. What's the best my? What's the best is actually also a. What's the worst for me but in terms of the way it's used the movie? I'm GONNA say what's age. The best is the E. Am's because it's great to have a message that three people have to read out loud. You know that they all have to confirm concur and you've got to take it from one guy running down the hallway to another guy. It's like a great like the only other thing is like the hudsucker proxy. Where the letters go flying the tubes where I can think of something. That was so cool. Cinematic -ly but that being said it's disturbing to think that that was what nuclear Holocaust was hinging on was whether or not this like email came through their radio tower and three guys got to like crack open. A thing concur so I thought it was but I thought in terms of cinema like the. Em's were really awesome and jumping off on that. I think the thing that's age. The best is the opening title card and the closing title card and the fact that the opens with the three most powerful people in the world of the President United States the president of Russia and the captain of a US Nuclear Marines submarine and at the end of the movie. We learned that on January. First Nineteen ninety-six a captain of a nuclear submarine no longer has the authority to fire a nuclear bomb. And it when I watched a making of this movie and you can imagine how Bruckheimer and Simpson sold this movie to the studio but Bruckheimer almost word for word in the feature at says that opening title card and you can see that that's how he titillated the studio to get excited about the movie. He's like ladies and Gentlemen. The three most powerful people in the world are and then they're like well who jerry needs like. I'll tell you right now. Number one the president of the United States number two the present Russia and number three a nuclear submarine captain and. He's like all in his selling zone. It's great and Don Simpson's like number four as say Dad Simpson's I D- floated nine lines. Is that really true? The top three in ninety times it. I would have put David Stern in there. What's age would save the worst subtle but this was a really really really awesome. Big Screen Movie Anna Care. How Big Your TV is. It's just not the same. It's to see that fucking sub on a seventy foot screen though just the way it shot. This one was really great that theater and sadly they were going to re release this in the theater. There is there. Were a couple of ninety. Five anniversary move is our supposed to come out in April may before the pandemic it but this was one of them and I actually probably would have gone and watch this in the theater because It just as perfect great I and there's a few like theralac I've really drastic park is another one. That's like that. Maybe we can get Quinton to do a Tony Scott Marathon at the new beverly. You know and pay down to his stuff and see his movies on the big screen when we're back to go to movies a man on that another would sage worse the guy in charge of saving the world. Who has to fix? The radio is the fuck up from the Bronx Tale. That Guy Little Brown Cada stuff. They in real life didn't work out as well Hackman threatening to kill. Somebody never sat right with me. It's like beyond a nit-pick where he pulls the gun on Vigo and beagles like then it's like faulk. You're the only one who knows the code. I'm going to shoot this guy instead. Feels like that would have come up in the report with robards near the end like is it. True Tree pulled a gun on a couple of people like that was weird. I don't know sounds like you guys are fine with it. Whatever it takes bill okay. And then I have this as a wide sage. Worst instead of a nit-pick Hackman just going full racist at the tail. End Up still not positive why that happened or if that was the right choice would that would that guy. Just that overt about being a fucking asshole and being racist is when there's people on the boat. Yeah he's probably getting Egged on a little bit by Gandolfini character and that's the thing is like dougherty in this movie. I feel like on the pages like dougherty pulls a gun and Gandolfini ads. Like what if I pull a gun and I'm clearly sexually aroused by the fact that I've done this. Can I do that like every time? He's into Tony Scott Movie. He plays such a fucking scumbag greased up. And just like yeah. Is there going to be counter mutiny? Because that's what's up. Boys a wrestling character. He's coming up later casting whatevs Chris. This is for you. 'cause you're the only person I know who may be ninety? Five percent is excited as I was about this fact Simpson and Bruckheimer offered Val kilmer one of the headlining roles but kilmer declined years later. Kilmer noted it was one of the few films that he wished he had agreed to be in the role offered. Kilmer was Denver formally specified so role was it has to be Vigo. Oh so you think it was Vigo Hunter or or you think it was hunter. I think it was hunter. I think that's why he turned it down because it wasn't big enough. What's it saying is he could have played every part in this movie. Except for Hackman like easily just could have been crazy. Gandolfini is characterized. He could have all US Pacino Al Pacino was not not Dan Dad or Frank Pacino but al Pacino. It was originally offered the role of Captain Ramsey Hackman's character and Mr Hunter made my decision it in his now. I got the nuclear codes a half an hour ago. This is rated his visit hair zone where he would have ended up to ninety. You know who that is Vladimir Radchenko. Okay motherfucker never gonNA old old for the audience the sub casting. What if this was that Brad Pitt to play hunter when he thought Pacino was might be Ramsey? And then when Patino dropped out Brad Pitt was like I'm good. So there's a lot of weird variables with another one sean. You'll like this one. Warren Beatty was was courted by Simpson and Bruckheimer and And ended up not happening. They slow dodd another in a long line of Warren Beatty. Making someone think that he might take apart for over a year and just flirting with them and trying to seduce them and trying to be seduced than that at the end of the day to saying. Actually I'm good. It's the same thing that happened with the Burt Reynolds part in in boogie nights. You did the same thing to PTA. And that I think that's a bigger mess as much as I like. Burt Reynolds boogie nights. Think Warren Beatty would have been incredible and that movie. I don't think he would have been good in this movie. I think he would have been to like. I agree cerebral and kind of weird and be like. Oh you of work. You like slippers on her stallions. I don't think he would have gotten a military haircut. Just went to work. The next person who passed would've worked and it's a good would f. I'm still happy with Hackman. But Tommy Lee Jones Hackman Pie. Does this under siege. Though true I feel like he could have played most Hackman. Parts and at least batted three twenty with some homers and Donna. Reasonable Hackman And then according to Don Simpson interview and God knows what what he did before the interview. Brad Pitt Tom. Santa Anita Racetrack Brad. Pitt and Tom Cruise were considered for Denzel. Spart crews makes sense because I think cruise was the first phone call for every part like this for ten years and you move down that lab man. It worked out perfectly best. That Guy Aka the Joey Pants award there was. Talk the Groundhog Day Pot. About whether we change this to the Stephen. Tobe Alaska Ward Ned Ryerson We're going to convene Kristin do we leave it as Joe a word or do we mix it up. I'm into I'm into till ask you. We could mix it up. We've been we've been changed over the categories recently. It could be the George Sons Award as well now. He's George Donja is he. Yeah he is he has to be a to. That guy is here. Matt Craven Zimmer I technically he might be Matt Craven because NCIS. But I still feel like at this point of his career. He's just that guy. He was one of those guys for ever. And then Danny Nucci as Danny the silver surfer guy. I think that's a better one because I never knew what that guy's last name was even though he's been in a shitload of stuff. I Danny what they Chris. Yeah the only I don't know if Ryan Philipe goes in that guy here his first role and you see him a couple of times and you're like is that do I think it is. And then he's off the screen but yeah. I'd probably go NUCCI here. The Vincent Hanna Greg Award. Who doubted up the most in this movie? This award now sounds like it's about who has the best aspect pass and I don't know the answer to that. That's definitely be should we were going to be instead of the. Great Asa Word Chris. I think coffee with McCauley. Go At our word all right. I'll change for future ones. Who doubted at the most in this movie? I think you know Fini precise tummy sir. So ship has been hit going into see my cat a standard Saad stead. Asari him for this and I had him for Dan waiters. Yeah I would say that it's a you can really tell that Rick Schroder. Despite having tons of water autumn is like I am going to make the most out of closing the hatch. Yeah but Gandolfini is just a just a gorgeous poor Chetta in this movie. He's just like hamming. It's great it's really fun to watch him. Belatedly in these pre Tony. Soprano Parts A. He's joy and all them. He was enjoyable in the moment. I think all of us had stock in them. I think from the moment he did. True Romance. It became clear something was going to happen with them but It's just fun to have him move in movies. Like this. I think with With Schroeder you just kept waiting for Jerry Jerry Wake Chair. I have a new so we agree on Dan. Waiters for Gandolfini. Yeah that same. I had this. We have a new category. We're like one hundred thirty. Zen In never he never get too old to mix it up every once in a while this category. We should have had for a long time. It's a category. That won't be every watchable as it's only going to be re movie appropriate. It's a category for best performance by a pet which we're going to name the brandy rating brandy was Brad. Pitt's dog in once upon a time in Hollywood the most recent great performance by pet that we would rate when we have a pet a prominently featured pet. I thought we'd rate from a one to ten shoe is and how the pet did so gene Hackman's Jack Russell terrier. How many Chu is. Would you give one to ten Chris for the performance significance performance? Everything I had him as a five okay because I already actually go even higher because I think it's like such an odd choice for new commander to have a little Jack Russell. Dog that immediately is like there's something a little off about this guy and everybody just being takes everywhere and the dock pisses in the hallways. It's the first sign you're like. Is this guy. Got It all together. Stiller's he lost it And also like he's so if it's those moments like where he just gets has a mutiny conducted against him and then he comes back and he starts playing with his dog. You're just kind of like what's up with this guy so I go seven seven. She's so what of the absolute funniest moments in this movie. Maybe the funniest moment in the whole movie is right at the end after we finally got this final. Yelm and the captain announces that there will be no missiles fired and Tony Scott throughout the movie keeps cutting two shots of people on the ship and he cuts to Danny NUCCI and he cuts to Bronco and then the third face that you see is the fucking dog. Take Captain Ramsey's quarters and the is barking at excited that they're not firing missiles it's hilarious. It's a perfect nineties. Movie moment this hang out with this old man for two more years so for that reason we get a choice. Eight shoe is from Sean. The one thing I just quickly ask is what what are we looking at as like the baseline great season from a dog or cat or animal actor like are you talking about the cat and the Godfather See Opening Godfather's seen like what are what's the what's the great animal acting performance that were judging this against. I listen to you know when you see it as we do we ought to be. There's an animal in the movie we have to. We have to talk but I I think the one thing is. It should be a pet so I think the godfather horse qualifies because Khartoum was sexually pet. So we're screaming on this one. I didn't expect that Pacino had been in the Hackman part. The Jack Russell terrier gets to attend because we would have had the pacino scenery. Where his sitting there bummed out? And the thing it'd be like I've got dog pissed in the hallway. I've got a crazy Russian threatening to blow up the sub. I got Jim Gandolfini witness and his balls off down the hallway of salary. Nuclear codes weren't ready in time Bill where does the GROUNDHOG Stand here from groundhog. Day is he. Does he qualify as a pet. Oh Yeah Yeah that was. That was probably five choose. Okay we didn't get any of this The saints where he actually bid Bill Murray. We'd seen one of those have been higher. Recast recasting couch all apologies. Mcraven but I I. I wish there was like a famous night young nineties actor up and comer in that role like that what if any Riley. Yeah our Brad Pitt or like like Mark Wahlberg like just somebody who is on the way up who had really made it yet but it would have been fun to see them in that part of our man Matt Mark. Wahlberg said this And I don't know who that is honestly could have been really. Anybody could have been Leo. For God's Sakes Affleck Damon could have been a good shift Damon performance. So this is this is right. I think he's a little old for hunter but maybe he's actually the right age but this is during Robert Downey junior sort of lost yours. It's like right after natural born killers. Oh Yeah and you know. He obviously becomes one of the biggest movie stars. We've arrived in in in in the next couple of decades. But this is this would be kind of a cool moment for him. He kind of missed all these roles you know because he he. He was sort of in the wilderness during this time of his life. I have one more for recasting catch forgot to mention earlier I. I don't know why Cuba gooding wasn't in this movie. I think it's a huge. It's I I could just see him. In the sub kind of Semi Comic Relief Gandolfini definitely went elect. Them could get it. Done like to Cuba gooding things during the movie. I just wish she had been about half fascinated at research. Tarantino's two scenes where the silver surfer scene. And then oh three scenes the captain Kirk Star Trek. That whole thing which didn't really totally make sense but they went for it anyway and then The dialogue about the submarine films enemy blow and run sound deep. So there you go Speak Tarintino according to the ninety five Premier magazine Article That is not online whoever owns rights. Call US we`ll. We'll buy all the premier magazine when couldn't Tarantino visited the set Denzel Washington confronted him about his use of the N. Word and in his films. Tarantino got embarrassed one of the conversational more private area washed said. No We're discussing lists discuss it now and then seventeen years later and G. Q. Washington contacted Tarantino. A few years later apologized and said he was a fine artist and Denzel daughter worked with him on Django as a production assistant so it all worked out sound super awkward though little bit of a captain Ramsey EXO hunter situation. There we had mentioned Robert and Steve Zaillian. This is my favorite one. Chris have to have you reenact this as Don Simpson. Robber town received an urgent call from Don Simpson. Jerry Bruckheimer would net regarding a key. See between dead's Ellen Hackman. They wanted to rewrite the discussion on the nature of war between the two characters setting up a more plausible potential for conflict for the rest of the film. Such was the urgency of the situation that town had to dictate his rewrite over the phone to Simpson and Bruckheimer. They recorded his words. Yeah so I I have no idea whether Don Simpson called him from Bogota at like two in the morning by if anybody wants a rendition of what it was like to get one of those phone calls watch the The dinner for five with David. Milch that they're available. They're on Amazon and Youtube and stuff like that. The one it's like Michael rapaport Timothy old fight Jay Moore and David Milch with Jon Favreau and Milch tells an incredible story about getting one of those phone calls from Don Simpson about writing. Bad boys two. I think he sounds way worse than me. Oh Yeah did you think so. Good partisan just like I'll send this text or the eleven thirty tax. Don Simpson's calling you demanding rewrites dictated on the phone midnight. Let me assure you you're a lot better than none Simpson. Bill hasn't done it. I would encourage people to check out high concept which is a a biography of Simpson and the work that they did in the movies that he and Bruckheimer made which is a very salacious and fascinating book about what it was like to try to make movies in the late eighties and early nineties. While you're doing a lot of cocaine Robert Robert Mueller in his director years as director of the I would often quote Hackman's line in this movie. We're here to preserve democracy not to practice it It'd be it'd be nice if people recording now who are in charge of arbitrary also your strategy managing the ringer. Yeah I try. I do my best. There's a whole I don't want to go down the whole deep dive of the US Navy with this movie. But it's a two year Odyssey and at one point they're leading the director the producers on the boat so they can learn from. They videotaped lieutenant commander who Denzel based his performance on gotTa Lotta inside Intel in once the. Us Navy found out that the script is actually going to be a mutiny on the boat there were like were out. Were done where we will have no involvement whatsoever at this and there's a question of whether they hope they knew the whole time. There's going to be a mutiny just withheld that or whether they came up with the idea later so who knows but the. Us Navy is out on this movie. That is not what was who was in top gun. I'm blanking was that navy that's the Navia. Yeah so there in on top gun in so Simpson. Bruckheimer had their relationship and then talk. Tony Scott has has a good response to that particular controversy when he was interviewed about it he said if a mutiny is something that would never happen aboard a naval ship or submarine. Then why is there a training session for all for all naval officers in the event of a mutiny? Why Chris Can Answer? You can never be too sure. The answer Capex Mountain Tony. Scott Shit Bill. I'm asking I'm not saying I'm asking. Well there's a case to be made it's the it's the definitely the career crossroads. It's a hit. It shows that he can work. He starts his relationship with Denzel. Would this movie. I don't think it's his best Phil I don't know do I think it's the best movie God damn it. I think it's the I think my three favorites. My Three Personal Tony's favorites are last boy scout to romance and Crimson tide. And they go. I think for Romances is the apex so I would argue for Crimson tide because it comes off to romance the next move. He makes his the fan. Which is it apocalypse. It's such a bad idea. It's ludicrous in every way but it got made because he was Tony Scott. Which makes me think that was his apex bound. 'cause it no world should any studio have green lit that movie that's going to end with a pounding rainstorm and a fan impersonating umpire and then them fighting at home plate and the whole thing is just so over the top and so- Rog in so bad out. Never defend that movie. I love Tony Scott so I would. I would argue that Jack Russell terriers no that season. One of frazier stay with me okay. Frazier is still on and kicking ass. With a Jack Russell terrier then crimson tide comes in. We've got doubled Jack. Russell terrier mega pop culture things in nineteen ninety five so winning Eddie versus bear. Who you taken Chris? Yes or no Jack. Russell terriers. Yeah I prefer this Jack Russell because this Jack Russell terriers in you. Know consequential situation than frazier other than that. I don't unless mutinies on subs we could. We could say this for that. Is this Apex Mountain? Is this the best submarine movie ever made? It's this. I think it's this hunt. But did it Dos boot like at nominated for an Oscar? Sure but I'm like real heads. No the deal. I think I if we're talking about re washable movies if we're talking about entertainments talking about movies that we go back to. I think it's it's hard for October. Crimson tide. Big every generation gets their chance at this question. You know you get fantastic. Voyage is kind of a submarine movie. You Get Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea. Run silent run deep. What's the there's another one in the fifties that that is a really big film Ice Station? Zebra kind of has elements. But it's not the main focus at the it's Robert Mitchum movie that they owe enemy below below is on the list and then canine. The widow maker comes after this the Kathryn bigelow movie which is okay with the has Harrison Ford doing a Russian accent. Now not exactly what you want that you think this is better than than hunt for act overbill. What year did that come out ninety? I think it's I think it performed better and I think it. I think it has a better kind of tail just feels more modern to me than hunter hunt for Red October. Does I mean Alvarez? Tober definitely feels rooted in that. Tom Clancy like late. Cold War stuff. This feels a little bit more almost closer to like a terrorist story. But I think that the story and plot outside of the submarine and hunt for October is a little bit more compelling than the one in Crimson tide like. Janko you see for like five seconds on CNN and the beginning and the rest of it is just Matt. Craven screaming about him for the rest of the movie. I think that the the Ramos versus Jack Ryan stuff in hunt for October is a little bit more rich but I. It's it's pretty neck-in-neck. Jason Robards Cameos Apex Mountain enemy of the State. I like this more yet. The the weird thing about this movie is it's really nobody's apex. It's just people passing through it. Who are really good. But it's they certainly aren't peaking ticket nets the bringing the dog on the sub like the whole strategy for the dog on the bathroom just bugged me. For some reason you'd think there would be a real effort to keep a sub safe. No matter how crazy the lead captain is in. I've worked with some people who were pretty nuts with dogs who would bring the dog everywhere and and but never to this level words just like. Oh there's watch out for the Piss Shit and the sub just seem kind of off to me and couldn't they had like some low level person. Walk the dog or create some little astroturf placed. Imagine walking down the hallway. There's a Jack Russell terrier taking a piss and then like four guys. Smoking moral reds. Yeah put me in a fucking Torpedo Bay Cuba out into the ocean rough enough being in a sub like we don't need to add urine and shit so I don't know and then Hackman going full racist. I never fully understood that. But we talked about that or any other nitpicks. I got a couple What Steve Zahn job in this movie because for most of it he spends just like and listening to the radio and then like can't close the hatch or can't get screw that pipe shut so I was just trying to. I'm trying to figure that out and the other one was. Do these guys learn a little too much of their information from cable. News even for nineteen ninety-five like they find out about it at the hunters daughter's birthday party that Reggie taking over and then when Gene Hackman walks into his briefing. They're all watching cable news and he's like yeah. You guys are probably all up to speed right. It's like we're watching. Richard Valeri on era. Whatever they'd be watching MTV like Beavis and butthead or something not sure taming guys. Get a couple of newsletters about this stuff. Yeah I mean to that point. Why is the only cassette? They're listening to Martha Vandellas nowhere to run over and over again. That's pretty weird for a bunch of naval officers and on a submarine in nineteen ninety five. Yeah it's getting pretty timid. Gladiator movies down there with with dog. Passage best quote. I think we hit all of them. Unless you guys have any extras I wanted to. I wanted to CITE DENZEL PRONUNCIATION OF HOLOCAUST NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST. Pick up on that. Yeah as I feel like most people say Holocaust. But he's very specific says nuclear. Holo cost Holo cost of those weird. Could this be remained as a ten episode Netflix Show? I think you would probably need to do it the way they did. Twenty four where? Every episode is a set amount of time on that sub. And I think it would be effective They need to fill in a little bit on Steve Zahn character. But Yeah I would watch I vote. No I don't think it works. I think this the perfect two hour movie. Probably instable questions Loma Marchinko. What happened next. For Him Vlad. What was his lowest his name. He probably he probably top ago. He buys merely team. He buys a Premier League team. Leads them to the Champions League doesn't eat West Ham doesn't he? By the the New Jersey Nets is next move he makes the Garnett trade any other an answer yet. Are we sure this half Dipak have answerable? What do we feel about the The last scene where those guys are just like. Hey thanks are standing up for you. It's all water under the bridge with the whole nukes thing. I think I would be a little bit more of a grudge older in that situation. He also circles back pretty aggressively on his racist analogy. He's like a choice. I did a little more reading on that and watch some early youtube videos. I'm glad you brought that up because I forgot to mention picking nets he passes like an unforgivable point with Denzel that that last seen doesn't work for me 'cause I don't think Denzel but I okay. Cool man good luck with everything a C. Later thank you and take your that dog. Because he was great. Ooh Yeah no hard feelings about the whole racist horse thing that you said Fred of fifty people. I've just forget that happened. I did like that part. I would've actually gotten rid of it. Also no hard feelings for nearly inciting the nuclear destruction of the entire world holocaust was low cost it was. I noticed when they have when they have movies like this action movies with Washington as a setting in some way. They can't resist the outdoor shot near the end. Where the two characters meet again or read into each other again and you get to see Washington in some way and they that that one is a pro harbor. That's when they go to Naval Command at Pearl Harbor as the final the final scene. Oh that Oh that was in Washington. No Oh there goes that theory for sites in the podcastone but is listening. Who won the movie? I'M GONNA go Washington. I think he really establishes himself. Is something a movie star another level in this one? And maybe one that we're GONNA be talking about for decades which we are his twenty twenty-five years later I'd like to make a case for Hackman or Scott but I think Chris is right. I think I think kind of has to be Denzel. Supercharging into mainstream movie stardom. But are you build Don Simpson Don Simpson and Denzel? I I had denzel as well. I thought his part was a little bit harder. Here's the thing. Though I was saving this for the end I think without a few good men. I think you could really make a case for Hackman. This is two years after What was Nicholson's character and a few good men Nathan? Yes Up JESSOP. There's still some Jessica fumes with the Hackman performance that never hundred that and I love Gene Hackman's not criticism but it just felt like it was in Jesup file on a little bit that character and I thought Nicholson did a better and it did make me wonder if if Colonel Jessop had just been the guy running the sub in this movie and that played out with Denzel would that have been a better movie in the answer is probably yes because I think Jack Nicholson ceiling was probably five percent higher than Hackman just general by that. That's why I didn't want to give it to them on the corner. It's a very good call in the aftermath of good man. There's a lot of similarities. I think you could argue. Who on the movie could have been out Pacino too? Won This podcast for sure. Yeah had had he pulled it off. Not even taking bets on that you. How much how much more Captain Ramsey Pacino has captain Ramsey? Could you guys honestly do here because you do like an hour? I think we could probably just do a dramatic reading of this movie script as Al Pacino. I think I'd probably blow out my podcast. Software war is the continuation of politics by other means von conscious. Bits at of the legend. That's it for the rewatch. Ables Chris. Judd is always. We're dead the NEXT MOVIE IN CASE PEOPLE WANNA. Watch it before we do this now. Ruben Agony during draft day I want my picks back it's long overdue. It's just going to be an entire podcast breaking down the first trade and had them it was but Stay tuned for that draft. It's available on all the streaming services. That was the relentless. Thanks for listening.