CRE News Hour 7/5/2019
From the business desk at st broadcast news this is the c. arena news hour. I'm steve lubeck. Happy july fifth. Everyone in this holiday edition of the sierra news hour. We'll talk about economic trends in the philadelphia region with lauren gilchrist senior v._p. Of j. l. l. we'll chat with eric rabkin from the real estate law practice at akkerman about the firm's tenth annual real estate sector report a look at retail sentiment with matthew harding in melissa seabright of retail property company levin management and public public relations expert. Katie coats visits to chat about her book. Yes vote the public hearing plan for developers. We'll be back with the top news stories right after these messages <music> turn earn your podcasting passion into profits the book the business of podcasting describes the business side of podcasting including how to become a professional national podcast. 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We can help you produce podcasts and video programs remotely or in our fully fully equipped studio in cherry hill visit being the media dot com for more information now a quick look at some headlines from this theory world liberty property trust is sold eight hundred walnut street in philadelphia pennsylvania for ninety nine and a quarter million billion dollars liberty developed a twelve story hundred fifty three thousand square foot medical office building in two thousand thirteen for an investment forty eight and a half million the property pretty was purchased by university of pennsylvania health system mosaic real estate credits provided columbus pacific with one hundred sixty five million dollars in construction financing financing for pendry pork city slated to debut in the canyons village in park city utah in two thousand twenty. One preconstruction works begun in the development official. Groundbreaking genus slated for this summer m._l._k. Real estate capital successfully arranged a joint venture between a bridgeport based multifamily operator and a new york based private equity equity fund for the off market acquisition of two hundred and thirty eight unit eight building multifamily portfolio in bridgeport stratford connecticut m._l._k. Didn't identify the multifamily okay family operator but said its portfolio consists of more than forty properties in connecticut and rhode island valued at more than three hundred million dollars and harvest properties in joint venture partner in new york life real estate investors on behalf of mc morgan northern california value ed development fund one recently announced the sale of one bay plaza in burlingame california to local developer operator woodstock development. They didn't disclose the amount. The tower was originally purchased in two thousand sixteen for about two hundred seventy three three dollars a square foot. There's a lot of development activity going on in the nation's fifth largest metropolitan market it philadelphia and jones lang lasalle senior vice president and director of research lorne gilchrist is keeping a close tab on things like the eighty seven hundred plus multifamily development projects currently under construction and eight billion dollars in opportunities on investments projected over the next five years in the philadelphia region. The region added almost six thousand construction jobs to the community in the years between twenty seven and two thousand eighteen so he thought it might be time to take a closer look at what's going on in the philadelphia region lauren. Thanks for being with us to talk about <hes> construction and trends in the philadelphia metro market hi steve. It's great to be with you happy to do so <hes>. I think it's a really interesting interesting moment in the market right now so happy to be a part of the program so tell us what's going on. There's a lot of multifamily development going on your report. Indicates over eighty seven hundred multifamily development projects around fifteen zip codes primarily <hes> what's going on there. Yeah that's correct so that number number is a regional number that reflects the multifamily projects currently under construction all around the region and what i think is really notable. Notable is that where we saw a significant volume of construction in the center city area and certainly see that continuing for the next eighteen months or so uh-huh a lot of the new construction that we have seen has also been in the suburbs and if you look at the extant area or specifically typically the one nine three four one zip code action is leading the way right now with over twelve hundred units of multifamily under construction just just in that particular area <hes> so that is really four different <hes> developers progressing on projects combined to make that twelve hundred plus you know <hes> including product called kiva flats <hes> face to ask bridge at main hanover exton square and parkview at oaklands and beyond the fact that that's not really where people think the market momentum is. I think what's so significant is the simple fact that a lot of developers responding to changing lifestyle trends in terms of where and how people wanna live the flexibility with which they wanna live and for the first time that what is causing significant construction outside the course of the area so what is it about extant for for our listeners who are not in the philadelphia market. <hes> exton in is a suburb of philadelphia <hes>. Why is that getting so much development these days well. I think that it's a number of things but you know the city does not necessarily early fit the mold for every individual from a lifestyle perspective and there are certainly great schools out in the action area and and for people who want flexibility from a lifestyle perspective for you know and tend to rent apartments that might not want to be in the heart of the city exton really provides. It's an opportunity to live a more suburban lifestyle with quality schools but also maintain the flexibility and quite frankly lower maintenance than and what one might experience in house and i think really to it's kind of the next evolution of the mixed-use hub that we saw happen in king of prussia recently which was to say the developers of russia's town centre really created an <music> an urban suburban project <hes> to enable people should be able to live and walk just shopping live and walked dining live and walk to the grocery or at least have those items be short <hes> call it car ride away and i think that extant is just really kind of the next spot <hes> that we're seeing some of that mixed use development take hold in the philadelphia area. We're seeing a lot of interest in opportunities. Zone investments like many other parts parts of the country but your projection is. They're going to be nearly eight billion dollars. In opportunities own investments over the next five years. What's driving that and what kinds of projects are people looking at doing really what we have seen. Is that those projects <laughter> <hes> that could get off. The ground are in areas that were already experiencing. You're answering some upswing from market forces despite being designated as impoverished or challenging from an income and population perspective <hes> that's largely due to the fact that the opportunity zones were designated utilizing twenty ten cents a state up so a significant a portion of that investment figure projection really is in the university city area specifically where schuylkill yards is slated to get out of the ground in partnership with anyone realty trust gotham as well as longfellow and so that project you know really may amy not have been ripe with or without the opportunities zone but certainly that provides an additional financial catalyst for capital capital providers that are able to get structure right <hes> that being said there is still a third round of guidance that is due out from the ira arra that buttons up you know some of the loopholes that remain in the program in terms of clarifications so what's difficult is it's gotten a lot it does we've definitely seen some early investments and some funds being raised around the country but it's still somewhat risky due to the fact that the guidance attendance is not one hundred percent that by the federal government at this stage and we have had a number of experts on the theory news hour talking about this from a legal standpoint from taxation standpoint and a structure standpoint so <hes> we'll come back to you <hes> when some of these projects get in the ground and the see what <hes> what your take is on how well they're doing. <hes> one of the other trends that you've noted is that <hes> the the region has been pretty healthy and adding construction jobs to the community over the past <hes> seven or eight years. It looks like <hes> a little more than fifty eight. Hundred construction jobs have been added. <hes> what what does that trend tell you about construction in the region and does it give you any sense of direction where the economy is likely to go in the philadelphia market over the next couple couple years. I think a lot of the construction job increase that we saw was in response to the significant and in fact recordbreaking volume of square footage delivered particularly in the center city area in terms of both renovated office product ground up office product as well as almost twelve thousand units of multifamily delivered over the past several years so we've seen math of institutional project jack <hes> we've seen significant net new investment to the city overall and in addition to the construction that everybody sees going up in in the sky on the day to day. There's a significant amount of tenant fit out work on the office side. That's a little bit more visible to do you know the naked eye walking around on the street that is really a contributor to the overall construction job environment as tenants have been renewing leases in this largely stroll over cycle so between two thousand seventeen and call at twenty twenty two. We were experiencing experiencing about six million square feet of lease roll over for two plus flora penance so a lot of those tenants have downsized in place in order to take advantage of new workplace strategies and get more dense in place and to be sure a lot of tennis also moved to be able to avoid the hassle of renovating in place and so while they might not have cost cranes on this guy those office moves and renovation cause a significant ignificant increase in the amount of construction workers needed to complete those spit out so when we look around the east coast two thousand eleven to two thousand housing and eighteen we saw about six point seven percent increase in construction workers <hes> but what's i think interesting is that you know the northeast corridor award or average overall with thirteen point two percent so even though philadelphia grew fifty six hundred workers that six point seven percent is less than half of the six point or thirteen point two percent. Excuse me that we saw grow across the rest of the corridor and i think the only thing that i could say beyond the positive avenues of that increase jobs is the simple fact that we still do lag the rest of our pure markets around the east coast when it comes to new construction and job creation and one of the things that we hear frequently from the developer community is that <hes> we have very high labor costs in the philadelphia market but we don't have the <hes> the higher rents of our counterparts city such as washington in new york absolutely louis accurate washington well new york in particular has experienced significant rental rate appreciation as compared to the philadelphia market. We i do tend to still be a steady eddie. Rental rate increase market of about three percent year over year when we look at those numbers i and new york and boston have increased in terms of rental rate appreciation significantly faster so while we're kind of at the stage where we're seeing recordbreaking rents in the philadelphia c._b._d. Of around thirty three dollars a square foot full service and you know conshohocken experiencing class-a rates in the thirty eight dollars square arrange radnor somewhere around there as well those rants really pale in comparison to the rent that boston and new york are getting overall overall and that has largely been what's made the capital challenge from a renovation perspective and acquisition perspective activists underwriting and exit in a market that is seeing slow rental rate growth is difficult from a capital traction point of view any any other warning signs that you're seeing in the numbers that people need to be keeping an eye on or is it smooth sailing for the rest of this year well i do you think that the recent announcement of the closure of the refinery in philadelphia due to the explosion that recently took place there as well as the the closure of hahnemann hospital are certainly significant labor events in philadelphia to be sure we've always had higher unemployment than other markets around and you know the east coast due to our high rate of poverty in the city <hes> we've never in my time in philadelphia seen gene such massive closures of facilities that employ call it middle wage to upper middle wage workers and so when i think about you know several several thousand people hitting the job market to some degree that provides relief in terms of the wage rate increases that we've seen provide some some relief to that low rate of unemployment and tends to balance the economy out because the labor market has been so tight. I am slightly concerned. Overall <hes> <hes> you know the perspective of what it does macroeconomically in terms of spending in terms of occupancy of the possibilities it's true but you know across the country to we're starting to see some signs of i think softening as a function of trade as a function <hes> <hes> of the fed even responding now to say you know we're gonna hold interest rates at the moment despite kind of decreasing them recently so. I don't think there's any clear trajectory at this with moment. Certainly the economy still adds jobs or is continuing to add job but i do think there's some kind of storm clouds on the horizon. The question is how faster they moved back. Lauren gilchrist is senior vice president and director of research byrd j. l. l. in philadelphia or thanks for joining us today. I'm sure we'll check back with with you at least once or twice more during the year. It was great to be here with you. I really appreciate the time. Executives are bullish about the state of the u._s. Commercial real estate market seventy percent say they're more optimistic about the market in comparison to last year that some of the results from the tenth annual u._s. the real estate sector report produced by the u._s. Law firm akkerman joining us as eric rabkin that chair of akron's national real estate practice us to talk about this study how they got involved in producing it and what some of the other findings were about investor sentiment in the commercial real estate market. What got you started producing sector report. And what have you seen over the ten years <hes> in terms of changes in the marketplace while <hes> thank thank you so much for having me on your show <hes> really though if you look back at where we were ten years ago we were basically in the depths of the worst the recession <hes> to hit the country since the great depression so we started out <hes> a lot of what we were doing especially in our in our real estate the group <hes> was to <hes> try to bring as much sharing of information as we could to the real estate industry which was <music> suffering incredibly during the great recession so we started out doing this survey of c. Suite executives <hes> throughout the country kind trying to gauge the just kind of the fever the temperature the temperature of what's doing in the marketplace and we found that the real estate industry in general but of course our clients and contacts and friends were incredibly <hes> grateful for us to bring this information out <hes> as to how others were were kind of viewing the market and to see if it matched their own sense so so <hes> as we came out of the recession in two thousand eleven two thousand twelve we thought it was a really interesting important product that we continue to who pursue so that's kind of what we've done where every year we take the temperature of the commercial real estate industry and we publish our findings based on based on on that survey so i gather from this year's survey that you're seeing some strong optimism about the market compared to the way things were last year. We're still seeing very good optimism. <hes> there's no doubt that there's more headwinds than there were. Let's say two three years ago <hes> but certainly at least for now even with <hes> <hes> uncertainty in some sectors of the economy <hes> in particular. You know people aren't sure about what's going on in washington. People aren't sure where where interest rates are going month to month <hes> earlier in the year there was much concerned about <hes> were rising interest rates now that has kind of gone right away and and looking possibly even tortured interest rate cut this summer so <hes> there's still a lot of good optimism in the market and even though and a downturn is simply inevitable and this isn't just real estate. This is you just for the economy. It can't keep expanding <hes> <hes> forever without a slowdown so at some point there will be a slowdown but i think that at least from what we can gather from the from the clients and contacts wchs and executives that we speak to <hes> when it does <hes> start to slow down. It won't be anywhere near as deep as it was essentially ten years ago. <hes> seems to be a lot more <hes> equity in the markets or just a lot more discipline <hes> when into underwriting getting transactions <hes> since the recession ended <hes>. I think there are still some you know they're definitely commentators will say there hasn't been enough <hes> discipline win but <hes> i. I don't think they'll they'll be any economist commentator. Who would say that. We're headed toward a massive crash. <hes> that'll that'll be much more of a of a slowdown which again is inevitable sure. It's a new business. Cycles are precisely that cycles exactly right so when you talk about the funding vehicles year survey seems to indicate and this is a trend that's continued for several years that <hes> the people surveyed expect most of the funding to come from private equity funds and institutional lenders. What does that tell you about the nature of the market. What does it tell you about the the way. People are thinking thinking about financing their development. <hes> what i think one of the things that's happened. I think since since the recession ended and we've been in this prolonged period of expansion manchin is that there is much more <hes> they're much more options <hes> in all throughout up and down the capital sack and one of the things <hes> certainly that has taken hold in the last few years are <hes> used to be that there was private equity to help fill in your capital stack stack as far as equity but <hes> debt funds have become much larger players in the marketplace and <hes> because they are <hes> not banks <hes> and not anywhere near the kind of regulation that those kinds of <hes> lenny institutions are subject you they can be a lot more flexible flexible <hes> on their terms so we're seeing it for sure in the marketplace that <hes> developers that normally would have gone to <hes> banks or even insurance companies <hes> but but certainly on the construction side of things that have gone normally gone to banks are finding ready <hes> sources in the <hes> private debt world and again it much more flexible terms and the the other thing that i found interesting in looking at the report is the <hes> the amount of foreign investment that <hes> people are expecting to come in particularly from china talk a little bit about china. <hes> you know it. It's interesting because it's such solarge economy has so much effect on on really on on most of the world <hes> and we saw tremendous amounts of of investment from china <hes> earlier in the two thousand teams to have <hes> ed somewhat but it it's just such a massive economy that you just assume that <hes> that will continue around the world <hes> and i think that regardless <hes> honestly regardless the politics <hes> the united states real estate commercial real estate market is always going to be an attractive investment and that goes for or the <hes> latin american countries where you're seeing <hes> pretty significant increases in investment from mexico and brazil coming into the u._s. s. What's their goal yeah. I think a lot of it is is is safety. <hes> as as there's economic uncertainty in many places around the world you know venezuela is obvious example just because the headline so often <hes> and i think there's a lot of flight to safety and and kinda just to reiterate what i just said. It's the united states commercial real estate. Market is perceived as as in very safe investment vehicle for <hes> for investment but there were some other key trends that your survey identified them. One of them was was <hes> respondents who say <hes> tax reform is one of the most important trends on real estate development. <hes> the the tax reform bill the opportunities zones our they having an impact and where do you see that going as we go forward the opportunity zones at some point or going to <hes> potentially ashley sunset or do you anticipate. They'll be renewed for another ten year term. <hes> you know it'd be nice to see them renewed because there's no question that the goal of why this is in there <hes> that <hes> to spur and incentivize investment assignments in <hes> areas that have <hes> <hes> really need this kind of investment so that you know it's based on the census insist tracks and the areas that are most in need of <hes> investment so the goal of in particular in urban areas of bringing investment to areas that desperately need <hes> influx of capital influx of jobs is is really fantastical so the there's many any change in the tax code that are designed to incentivize behavior <hes> the the obvious examples deduct mortgage interest in. There's nothing magical that your house mortgage has to be deductible and your rent. Isn't we want you know however many years ago that was they wanted to encourage americans to own homes so here's is an incentive. You can deduct your interest on your taxes. It's it's it's an incentive and <hes> in our firm. <hes> this kind of <hes> incentive tentative goes right along with <hes> understanding and bringing to bear our extensive experience in various economic incentive <hes> programs at something that <hes> we have done for many years <hes> we have an economic incentive practice that helps developers kind of unlock all these various incentives that they might not know about and opportunities owns is yet another one so <hes> our our national team on opportunity zones owns is all over <hes> the space <hes>. We think it's it's a very interesting important incentive and i hope it considers but i think it'll happen. Is let's see how it plays out if it ends up where <hes> investments pour into deals olds that probably shouldn't be be done except they happen to be in an opportunity zone we might not see continued but if but if the the deals themselves are underwritten properly and they're and they're good you know a deal that should happen whether or not it's an opportunity zone. You'll just have much more <hes> <hes> lineup of investors looking to defer their capital gains into these <hes> into these projects on the technology side one of the things that <hes> is a common theme among people in the sierra <hes> marketplaces that <hes> commercial real estate tends to lag behind other industries in terms of its adoption of technology <hes>. What are you seeing in terms of more adoption of technology or how. How important is that going to be. <hes> i think i well. I agree with you that real estate. <hes> in general has been slower than other areas to adapt new technology into it but <hes> i think that the world is changing quickly and real estate is keeping up with that <hes> and so what you're seeing this especially for just for example in <hes> in office buildings and <hes> <hes> apartments you have to have the latest technology <hes> <hes> because essentially the the occupants whether it's a residential tenant and office tenant the these <hes> technologies are looked on as basically must have amenities and so if you don't have the latest in a <hes> cell technology for your building and you know applications <hes> to be able to <hes> for example turn air conditioning on and off and whatever <hes> other <hes> technology that there is <hes> for for smart buildings. I think i think more and more people are looking at those as not that's nice to have but it's table stakes so developers are recognizing that they have to include all of these technologies that people are expecting <hes> in their projects one of the other trends that <hes> your survey respondents identified as important as the aging of the population the graying of america what what do you think is going to be happening with senior development and health care facilities and what should investors be thinking about in terms of positioning themselves in that area area yeah. I think that that certainly over the next decade this is going to be a massive area for investment and development senior living facilities ladies and not just an and not just <hes> assisted living in certainly there will be a ton of investment and that but also active <hes> senior you're living as americans get older and the baby boomers continue to age <hes> they are still leading active healthy lifestyles and all of those kind of active senior communities as well as the <hes> assisted living facilities will just become more and more ubiquitous <hes> and <hes>. I think one of the trends that we're seeing now is for assisted living and kinda you know the the medical medical related senior living to have more and more <hes> luxury accommodations as opposed to more spartan almost hospital like <hes> feeling it'll be much more of a luxury development where <hes> i think as the baby boomers get older and older and need those kind of facilities today they and their children <hes> will be much more attracted to these little luxury properties <hes> we're seeing we're seeing a bunch of that <hes> and so healthcare combine with residential just the whole kind of senior living concept is only going to continue to grow and <hes> of course housing housing in general is a very strong contender in in the sectors that your respondents think <hes> are going to be most active in two thousand nineteen eighteen. How is that different from previous years or is single family multifamily going to dominate. What do you think <hes>. I think multifamily just continues <hes> dominate <hes> the <hes>. It's been that way. <hes> continues to be a very well performing sector. <hes> it also is an area just as saying before where <hes> if you're going to attract millennials and others to multifamily projects that has to have an elitist elitist in technology and the latest amenities <hes> <hes> in many cases you know as as years go on now what you'll probably we see a need for is less parking <hes> <hes> but more in the way of amenities and so we all you know i i. I don't think there's anyone who d- who thinks multifamily is waning anytime soon and then one of the interesting things that we're seeing is is <hes> this kind of concept but in these single family residential <hes> sector where you're starting warning to see instead of building single family residential for sale you're seeing single family residential for rental which is is an interesting <hes> kind of change that you didn't really see much of that kind of development. Let's say five ten years ago but now you're starting to see more of that. Eric rabkin is the chair of akkerman crimines national real estate practice group eric. Thanks for joining us on the program. Thanks so much really appreciate you having me. We'll post a link to the akkerman tenth annual the u._s. Real estate sector report in the show notes at st broadcast news dot com traditional bricks and mortar retailers are continuing to embrace technology to serve customers and gain competitive insight north plainfield infield new jersey retail management firm eleven management corporation surveys retail tenants of it's one hundred five property fifteen million square foot portfolio polio several times a year. The latest survey its eighth annual mid-year retail. Sentiment survey has some very positive results in a lot of optimism about the retail hill selling climate for the rest of the year joining us to talk about it or matthew harding president of levin management and melissa variety vice president of marketing melissa and matthew. Thanks for joining us today for having us. What are the retailers telling you about how they feel. We do the survey three times a year. <hes> be once <hes> just before the holiday selling season once just after and then once during the middle of the year which we just completed <hes> this survey asks or are retailers how there has been so far how they expected it and up <hes> with their projections for sales for for the balance of the year and other things and then we also focused a little bit more in this survey on <hes> technology and how they're using technology and so forth so overall it was an extremely bullish response from retailers they've had had a very good year really record kirk breaking in terms of positive response that we got in the survey <hes> and our pre predicting good things for the balance of the year as well <hes> nearly three quarters of <hes> tenants or seeing traffic levels in their stores that that equal or exceed last year for example and really as i said one in the strongest gains in our our surveys history. What do you think accounts for the <hes> the such a strong positive outlook <hes> well you know it it's fact based to a certain extent we survey <hes> you know this is not surveying folks a corporate headquarters where were surveying managers in the stores and so it it's really a grassroots view of how stores are performing <hes> and it's a variety at stores restaurants service businesses. This is typical businesses that you'd find in a shopping center other retail property <hes> but it's it's really just based upon how they're doing doing so that really translates to economy consumer confidence and then also how it's very interesting to see how technology which has been something you know over the last number of years there's been a threat in a sense to bricks and mortar how different aspects of technology roger being used by are tenants to market themselves to reach their customers promote their businesses use <hes> watering ordering online and picking up in store so that they can get incidental sales from that so it's a combination of things but really just a continuation of a couple of years hero our continued strength <hes> that we see from retailers both in terms of sales and traffic and so it really just a very good overall now melissa you have been looking at the fact that the physical retailers are trying to up their game <hes> to compete a little bit with the online shopping. <hes> talk a little bit about what people are doing. <hes> matthew mentioned they're bringing in technology at greater levels than ever before but what what are some of the other things that physical retailers doing well. The good news is the majority of americans still prefer to buy at african mortar stores <hes> but they have to create a difference <hes> experience to get people to come in. You know it's convenient to sit at home by and search and have a delivered to your door <music> but now people want a little bit more than just going and grabbing a good product <hes> and it's making our retailers reinvent their you know what they what what they sell and what they do at their store and making them do a little bit more research about their environment around them. Their community tiny engaged with him to make a more customer experience for <hes> their buyers. What are some of the technologies that people are trying to use it. They didn't use before <hes> far as technology you know so it's <hes> digital coupons discounts loyalty points you know offering free wi fi <hes> in store lining with the free shipping for out of stock items. The electronic receives <hes> other features being that <hes> mobile scanners enters for inventory checks. <hes> sales floor price check scanners and were able to sail systems which is nice. If there's a big line you can find somebody eddie standing around in the store. Check you out quicker yang iraq and gather that <hes> people are still doing comparison shopping with their cell phones while they're standing standing in the brick and mortar store. Definitely people want the best sale they can get <hes> so they're going to do their their research before <hes> walk into into the store. Is there any sense that the retailers are using technology as a way to cut down on inventory because i know oh i've heard anecdotally from people who go into stores and they don't have the product in stock in the sales people there will say well order them online and try them at home in whichever ones you don't like bring back to the store you getting a sense. That's happening more. Yes i think so <hes> you know retailers are trying to be smart <music> about store size rent and efficiency and so forth so <hes> it you can see that happening in stores in in a number of ways and some retailers definitely do it better than others <hes> where <hes> someone in a store at bath and beyond is a as an an example where they they do it pretty well. I think the sales associate if it's not there they'll they'll order for you direct to your home free shipping and so forth so they do a very good job of of making sure that they they have the sale. I was in a store recently. I won't mention the name name but where person just shrugged and said well you you can take a look and and <hes> go order online at home where opportunity to lose the sale. They're are really so but it does help them. <hes> cut down on on <hes> space. We we've seen that in a number of our properties where <hes> dependence of we've readjusted sizes of tenants you know as as they've evolved their model as as melissa said retailers really have to change and adapt captain imparted at is making the stores as efficient as possible which in some cases is reducing inventory so with the incredibly strong <hes> <hes> traffic levels and the optimistic <hes> sentiment about sales. What is your sense. Is that going to be sustainable for. The rest of the year is the the holiday shopping season going to shape up to be as strong as the years been so far i we believe so and melissa can fill in a little bit <hes> after my comment but <hes> we believe so that's that's what the managers of the stores in in our survey are telling us that they see a strong continuation through the end of the year holiday sales are often subject to things that that <hes> happened happened very close to the holidays so you never know with <hes> you're going to be something that may affect <hes> consumer confidence toward the end <hes> also also whether to a certain degree impact holiday sales you know we retailers want the season to change at the right time that people are out there shopping for clothes and other things thanks so forth <hes> so <hes> but from our survey and from what we see and what we've seen over the last couple of years and sort of slow steady growth and then unreal real positive step forward here in our survey we we expect a good good holiday and melissa anything you're seeing in the survey results that <hes> you're going to be keeping an eye on we eighty two point two percent of our survey participants that indicated that they expect their sales to continue at the same pace or improve which is a great percentage all right melissa right and matthew harding from eleven management corp. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. Thanks very much for having us. Thank you. We'll be back in a minute shalom. This is rabbi richard address join us for our podcast series from jewish sacred aging <unk> entitled seekers of meeting will explore some of the issues and events that impact ourselves our families and our jewish world at large in light of the current revolution in eiji the secrets of meaning podcast airs every friday morning at eight a._m. At jewish sacred aging dot com own today. You can't wait for the media to cover your company. You have to be the media. Take advantage of the power of audio joe and video. It's the best way to showcase your expertise to prospective customers. Let the luebeck in media companies handle the technical side. We're award winning audio and video producers. We can help you produce podcasts and video programs remotely or in our fully equipped studio in cherry hill visit being the media dot com for more. You're listening to the cr newshour. I'm steve lubeck in building community support overcoming opposition and getting approval for real estate developments is challenging time consuming and if you don't do it the right way way it can be costly. Katie coach is the author of the book. Yes vote the public hearing plan for developers. She's the president of p._r. Projects katie helps. It's real estate. Developers get approval at public hearings as they work through the entitlement process. She's obtained. Yes votes for her clients at dozens of city council planning commission and regional and state agency public hearings. She's going to be presenting a pre conference workshop at this year's crew network conference in orlando florida called called. Get approval for your development project. Even if it's been called hopeless that'll be on september. Twenty fifth in orlando will post a link in the show notes for the podcast uncast katie. Thanks for joining us on the news hour so <hes> your book is about helping developers get through the public public hearing process. What made you decide to write it and what are the key takeaways for developers about getting ready for public airings well. It's interesting because i had a long career in crisis communications in general public relations and then i was living and working in an area that a had a lot of development during on and people started coming to me asking me what i would do to help it ready for their public hearings and get in through through the process and california along with many other states as very arduous entitlement process <hes> along with new york and <music> cheeses eight florida era mini station u._s. That have a difficult time if developers and difficult moments so over years i by the process that that works and masonite experience most yar pros. They're all talented skilled strategic not jack but they don't really know the past the public hearing approval and the entitlement arena is a unique niche and very consultants actually have a track record of success incidence rate set needed to get their clients through public hearings and really they don't know how to make any successful results results get repeatable so <hes> it's interesting because the developers think that have a great power point dak or an incredibly impressive multimedia presentation got those elements will save the public hearing but the problem is. They're not really giving the decision makers wet. They truly truly needs. What is that well. It's interesting because what the decision makers will tell. Uh-huh developers reasons for nile are the project needs more study densities. Don't make sense on the site or it's not a right time for the project. Jets are these are all vote is obviously the developer has fees for expert opinions of all kinds wild negative declaration stating the i._r._a. We are asian unit while environmental study is needed with details in order findings and blah blah blah and yet the council says here's more steady aren't as far as it's concerned of course any developer from salt is not going to i project. It's not appropriate or the site <hes> and you they always make sure the design in parton the other cities require and all of those things that are really important rations or decision vision and of course as far as the right time or the project that one is truly a head scratcher because usually the market seems to be riper insult and develop responders are amenable and after some convincing they given money properties available citizens and sales taxes. Perhaps everyday to this project urgent insistence on the residents go out of town avail themselves of shops and restaurants elsewhere and it's not the right time for this project than when we were and the council you've answered that question so <hes> may just say it's not the right time because they don't want to approval and furthermore not matter if you have a history of successfully velten projects just like when you're proposing it doesn't matter that your project has merit eric and provide so many needs and it doesn't matter city staff specialistic readers earning impacts are arraignment and it certainly doesn't doesn't matter <hes> you have made the decision to invest locally rate there rather than take your money to another city so matter it turns doubt is that vision neighbors need only to be in theory and this is all based on the neuroscience science call from mcgurk facts and your listeners can find rate video on youtube <hes> it it shows always at our brains what we see over what we hear and that's a really really important consideration when you're republic here so how does that play into what you present to a public hearing <hes> obviously it's going to be something visual absolutely and it cannot just be your powerpoint. You're you're great. Dak your multimedia presentation all of your <hes> expert burke that you have lined up sitting there in the front row with you. Were going to get up and talk about the traffic studies in parking studies and all of those things and and mark intersections they've developed all of that stuff is great and it has to be there but what you really need are people in the hall support your project or willing to get off and say that they supported own person so i assume that this means there's some some groundwork that has to be done before you get to the actual public hearing and the groundwork involve enlisting partners in the community absolutely and that's what developed a process for you know over the years <hes> lining up supporters is a very very important art of a process. One of my clients actually went to city council on the recommendation of a city manager just said no fly under the radar. It's integrate council is fully on board word and he shows up for the city council meeting a nearer about thirty five naysayers audience and they each get up and turn and make your little public statement and for developer had no been on his zyppah to counter these arguments now even though he came in with a warm city council and full expectation that he would have five of the seven votes needed <hes> five vote he needed those five to sway the whole seven eight months old <hes> he didn't get it even though he he pretty much <hes> nudity how those votes before he ranks in so unfortunately this what's really really important and very into industrial project <hes> three hundred thousand dollars three hundred hundred sorry three hundred million dollars on the line you know sort of at the expense of one hundred thousand dollars on community outreach across the ice why i counsel my clients and getting really prepared for his public hearing when that happened he asked around and found me rewards together actually for nine nine and a half years i got him through twelve different public hearings and got him every single permit one after another after and <hes>. It's the process that is develops. Let's that i use with his projects and i helped his entire element team yet. Ready for the public hearings lineup supporters or <hes>. It's really about becoming partners with those in the community and city council members will race into how do you get over the objections that people have to typical kinds of developments like an industrial building in their neighborhood or some kind of a a a plan to manufacturing plant how do you how do you get them to be more comfortable with those things. Can you so there are a couple of ways to answer. This and there are with most question. The first one is that of course you want to communicate with the public in with your immediate community and one of the ways that i do that especially with a controversial project is to basically over communicate had a really interesting project that involves an ol- term charm area it had a lot of antique shops and restaurants and is a circle a traffic circle and estrin area and <hes> infrastructure project had to go in there and they had no choice eaton's. It was a safety issue <hes> but the soap owners were oh really really against it and of course the rumor mill began immediately so arm. I decided that the only way to really counter this was by tom barton the immediate unity with way too much information so we set up a production of posters that would go in every shop window. We gave out postcards. Postcards and flyers had a newsletter on a weekly basis. We passed out every shop owner and manager. <hes> and we have public meetings. We talked about about it. <hes> openly at the city council members out actually brought it up himself on at our request because they wanted to get input from the public public leading up to this public hearing that would make a decision and decision was a budgeting issue at the council they it was actually a city project so oh he did not have to get approval from the public that they did have to budget the construction projects. Eventually the immunity had heard so so much about this project. They didn't wanna talk about it. Any and it went off without a hitch. Had some complaints air became sort of like brain departments through the months that worked on this project but i had a personal relationship with each one of those shop owners restaurant owners and managers and they knew who to call aw there was an issue my personal number and so that over communication will insist in a controversial project like like that but there's another way to look at this as well. If you've got a project where for instance there might be a feeling that <hes> here's a social social justice issue in. I used the term social justice in quote because usually it's nothing it does not produce any justice at all for anybody nobody when people and that that term around usually a perception of the haves versus the have not and often the project estranged by opponents opponents somehow developer who <hes> another developer one is the parcel that he had one in a fitting harm test and he sort of spread misinformation about the project that might might develop recurrent with bill as sort of sour great scenario and he certainly pose the project at developer was building as sort of only for the rich buttons at all true <hes> when you have that kind of scenario and you cannot cannot overcome it with over communication oftentimes. He just needs to go outside the immediate neighborhood find supporters for the project and it doesn't behoove developer to try to the opponent. Yes they should be open to discussion. Yes they should sit down down and have open talks with moments by a will never convince <hes> a die hard opponents in fact in <hes> twenty years of doing this mutation game with opponents and supporters developers decision-makers. I've only ever convince vince one opponent that he was on the wrong side and as it turned out really was on the wrong side he settled misinformation was actually a business leader her. When i sat down with a fact within he understood the issues generally speaking i sort of pouched the opponent of quintessential intial stereotype. I've means that stereotype melvyn in my book sorry to any real life melvin. This is not about you but now i'm in sort of has a eh. I prototype. He is generally the kind of person who's really averse to change and he's got his awards turnaround and hide and not let anyone else now. Let me flip it around and ask you about <hes>. Another kind of challenge in that is the the developer who's people can't seem to look at the project the objections to the project in another way i many years ago when i was working for the railroad we had a project where we're going to build a rail yard across a busy highway from a residential development and it was a it was already a busy highway but the folks who were inside the railroad promoting the project were hell bent on having the truck tuck access for the project on that busy highway and it it took an enormous amount of effort to get them to understand that the objections of the residents were solely based on where the entrance was and if they redesigned the project and put the entrance on the backside with no entrance from the busy highway they had objection to the project which makes complete sense from the standpoint of a community right right if there's additional access to website and it makes no difference to the developer on which side the access is on and it makes a big difference community obviously they should listen to that and in fact i always tell my oliver grant that he opponents opinions will not be changed and they can often very much benefit benefit your project for the greater good of nudity so what are the things that <hes> you're advising clients. Today were in a hyper <hes> active regulated environment in most areas. You mentioned that <hes> many states have <hes> intense regulatory and permitting processes is what's the best advice you give people when they're first starting out to think about developing a project obviously they have to make sure that all of those things i mentioned before that's the right site the right time the right then to the knockout going to cause harm to the local community. I always <hes> do do the due-diligence with my clients <hes> on larger project five a couple of weeks doing investigations behind the scenes and and you know google researches on every news he's ever done on the project developer in south and make sure that it's the kind of project they want us to <hes> but ultimately i think the developers really need to become community partners and i find that they usually aren't telling their stories in the most effective way to achieve their goal. They're often worrying about the wrong things. He might be concentrating communication ever completely the wrong audience entirely the wrong people yeah and they're not utilizing the power of thirty third party messenger service advantage so you're telling rather than showing and they're also not demonstrating mistreating to the decision makers that they have support of general public his needy don't even have the service and they need to get that in order to be credible and the also also needs to demonstrate that in the ways that will help the most <hes> they need to have a support of the people who matter to the decision makers and those of the you know in every every community there are about thirty or forty people who everything no matter the size of the community irre- thirty or forty movers and shakers every city town village and dan ultimately. They're thinking like developers instead of like the elected officials. They need to appeal to in order to get the votes. Katie coach is the author of the book. Look yes vote. The public. Hearing plan for developers katie's the president of p._r. Projects she'll be at this year's crew network conference in orlando florida presenting a pre conference workshop on public hearings and getting approval for development projects. That'll be in orlando florida september twenty fifth. You can get a free digital copy copy of her book at yes. Vote plan dot com katie. Thanks for joining us on the c. R. e. news our great talking to you and that'll wrap things up for this edition one of the c. r. e. news hour you can send your comments suggestions story ideas to steve at st broadcast news dot com or we can leave an audio comment for us using the voicemail icon on the homepage at st broadcast news dot com and we tape this program in studio a at st broadcast the news in cherry hill new jersey join us again for the next episode of the cr renews our next friday at eight a._m. Eastern time at st broadcast news dot dot com or wherever you get your podcasts. This is steve lou beckon. We'll see you out there on the net. Take good care <music>.