The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Hey everybody welcome back to bald move Paul. We've got what's probably going to be an epic podcast for you. Today is two thousand. One's the Lord of the rings this is commissioned by an an enigmatic figure known only as Dr John. And we'll get to his comments here in a bit but I want introduced the movie. Of course, this is directed by notorious Hobbit. Peter Jackson? It was written by himself along with his longtime partner Fran Walsh and Philippa wins who's adapted from the fellowship of the ring. The first of the tomes in the Lord of the Rings by one JR Tolkien Stars Elijah. Wood Ian mckellen Live Tyler. Vigo. Mortenson. Sean Astin Cate Blanchett John Reese Davies Billy Boyd Dominic Monaghan Orlando Bloom Christopher Lee Hugo Weaving Sean Bean Ian Home, and even though he does not appear in this I feel like it would be kind of Shitty to leave off Andy. Circus. From the from the starring list and it was scored impeccably in my opinion by Howard Shore. I I loved this movie I love the books, pinch which they are based. It's going to be very hard for me to not just constantly even more than I normally do talk over and and the. bushwack Jim here. Let's get to I'm GonNa let you get an early and hopefully often. What do you think? I want you to talk about your. If people know bald move, they know the gym Kinda famously hates fantasy stuff. He makes exceptions like, for example, early stage game of thrones because it's decidedly UN- fantasy fantasy. And I know that you actually Kinda got caught up in the Lord of the Rings Movies Talk About your relationship, the material and what you thought about it then and what you think about it after having just sitting down and seeing the the the article release of fellowship of the ring recently So my relationship with it is when I was. Fourteen I think. I sat down to read the Hobbit. And Lord of the Rings Fans Right now are going off fuck like you messed up you messed up because the hot is a kids book right? Like I I didn't know that. So I picked up the most accessible or what I thought was the most accessible of the Lord of the. Rings Lor. The hobbit and I read some of that and I hated it. I. Just. In fact, it might be the thing. Turned me off of fantasy in general is that experience with that book? And so you know I I had friends growing up who were way into Lord of the rings you being one of them I had a few other friends like a lot of people in our friends group were Star Wars, fans and Lord of the Rings. Fans primarily. How did we get away with being Lord of the Rings Fans I know I did because when the movies came out I wasn't grown acid for own house and like nobody can tell me otherwise. But like I'm honestly shocked at how many kids and teenagers were allowed to engage in Lord of the Rings stuff as a Jehovah's Witness. have any. Famously Anti Magic. Oh Yeah. This should be anathema to them, but I don't know I. Don't I honestly don't know everybody was sneaking I guess. Felt. Like was more open though you know we were talking about the stuff in field service and whatnot I wonder how much of it is like broadly that is Christian allegory that they kinda snuck in. You think our parents were that savvy and knew that because they had read it right like. My mom I said I moved out. So she I know she did not approve and like talk told me pointedly but again, I had own house is running. So fucker. Absolutely But yeah. So I had that experience of is fourteen and then I just kinda soured on it and all my friends were like. Really into it and so when the movies come out in two thousand when the first movie comes out in two thousand and one, I was there in the theater watching it with my friends. And I started getting into it because honestly this is a fun and exciting film. Like the beginning of this of this film is very good It's it's a good introduction to what I thought was going to be a main character Bilbo. I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction, his character I liked all of the hobbits I loved Gandalf. Everything is going great at the beginning and then by the time you get to the end there's so much exciting shit. That's happened with the ball rog and and fighting ORCS in in that final battle. You know with with form you're jumping in there like it's. It's also exciting that I think. I didn't realize that. The middle of this movie is kind of Eight. Just shit I I think it's a shit load of setup for other movies because this is essentially an act one of three act structure that doesn't happen in this film right? Like Ri-, right? Yeah. So I think. I. Don't know I came away from this movie going Oh well, that was a fun experience that was a ride, right? It's. It's like a road trip movie. It's fun. and. So. So then I was like, well, maybe I can handle this stuff and I didn't know anybody's fucking name. I didn't know the names of any of the towns. Okay. Will they went to? The place where they met this guy in the hood like. Turned out to be some Fancy Sword Guy. I don't know. And so I can keep up with the narrative but. You, guys were talking about it like, oh, but this means that and that means this and. I don't know. But I was into it enough that I was like, okay. I'll see the next couple movies. You are you have? Intimate relationship. Yeah. So I I had a relationship this guy named ace Jay's Kinda like years was with mine. He was a tad older. You know when I was twelve thirteen, he was seventeen eighteen and kind of caught with him through his cousin nate, who was a little like a year or two older than me and they introduced me to I'd always been a science fiction nerd I love Star Wars Star Trek. Growing up I never really got into fantasy because I was just a no go with my mom, right? And I remember playing am pretty sure axis and allies ace Jason Nate. We're going back and forth and they started making jokes about. Because he always comes down to these giant stacks of infantry in. Russia. On. Game. So in the out pass can show there is, but like the thing that because I was. Probably because I had zero exposure to this stuff, I was kind of drawn to the macab away. Some of my formative experiences were were like being at a thrift store waiting for my mom to get done shopping for secondhand suits for me and like. Finding a book on a Salem witch trials and like reading people being burnt at the stake and shit like that and like you just like their start talking about like when this is done about I'm GonNa Cut GonNa take your men's or at the end of one round the combat he he took all the chips and said, these are your men's heads I'm loading men a catapult I'm shooting. Him over the the walls Stalingrad or whatever, and I'm like what and they're all laughing at what are you guys talking about? He mentioned something in the Lord of the rings they do to like break the spirit of the Kingdom of men and I'm like I've got to read these books and I check them out. Of course, the school library had them all. So I started reading him somewhere between. Twelve, and thirteen, and it's like the very first band is the red and that kind of because at that time star wars and star Trek had both kind of been at a next generation was over I. think these face was like kind of wrapping up whatever Star Wars gone fallow and I'm like I'm GonNa go away into fantasy now. And I, just like I just love those books I I read everything. I could get my hands on regarding them, and then you know when they announced the movies are GonNa come out my first reaction is there's no way they're gonna not. GonNa. Fuck they're going to. Be Digested these because mine's higher life it'll been yeah. Yeah. My entire life has been getting excited about a movie based on a book that I really really like no other Tom Clancy. Her episode one came out right. I might have been like or getting hyped up for something. They're going to dat from a book series that I loved and it's just never ever going to be good especially if you're talking like made for T. TV movies or any kind of adaptation. But then you start hearing about like you know, Peter Jackson's real fucking Lord of the Rings Geek and he's hired this Guy Christopher. Lee's is all respected horror film actor and he's like was BFF's with. Jr tolkien's and. you start seeing some the pre production work come out and you know Ian mckellen famously ran a blog at the kind of documented his whole experience, filming it and I slowly started hype and then I remember Bill. Okay. So there's a scene in the books where Gandalf has to be stern with bill bogus bill does not want to give up the rings and the books described by Gandalf is like swelling with immense. Power and like bill, Bowes House groaning can't contain and I'm thinking like the one of the first scenes like if they nail that then I'm going to be in good shape and it's such a simple trick as essentially just dropped the bat like it felt like Gandalf sucked all of the light from the room into himself to and just through his physical performance. Now he actually grew but look grew in power and intimidated. Bilbo. But then instantly turned back into the grandfather and I remember like relaxing and be like Holy Shit. They're going to nail this because that's a really subtle job that they could have done whizbang on all kinds of different directions but it felt real like in a nuts and bolts like this is a real place kind of thing and from then on like I these movies were the most hyped. I've ever been about anything like it's the the two towers, the return of the king. I went to a special engagement when the when the there is a travelling exhibit of all the props and costumes and stuff from the movies that like town the town and it came the Indianapolis and was going to be there for thirty days and Indiana State Museum has an Imax theater built into it and they screened all of the theatrical releases. You could be you have frank hundred dollars. You could buy a ticket that they showed him back to back and then at midnight open doors to the exhibit and I didn't get home like four o'clock in. The morning it was this amazing experience in. It's it's been like one of my dreams to go to New Zealand and like tour Hobbiton all the sets that they still have kind of up and go to all the different locations I'm saying that eight up this this film and it's been about a decade since I've been that into something because you know I've gotten into a bunch of other things through through bald move and probably half the the deep Lord of the Rings Lord that I used to know has been deleted favor of deep game of thrones for sure. But I still like. This year I can't remember win. But Kim Renfro I guess has this tradition with her husband where they watch all of this extended editions on some weekend each year she was tweeting about it and me and sessile like you know it's been a long time since we've seen him. So we fired him up to and then that led to me buying the BLU rays of extended editions and sesame had never seen the like bonus materials. We watched all them walks a couple of commentaries watch like ten hours of. Its Dr John's going to get his fucking money's worth because I'm coming into this thing organically ready to talk about it. Yeah. I'm glad you are because this is only the second time I. think that I've seen this I know you know we used to have board game parties and just like playing magic the gathering or whatever growing up with our friends group and so. This has been on in the background and I'm sure the extended cut has been on in the background. I've been at one of those parties but this is really only the second time. I've seen this entire movie all the way through. And I did watch the theatrical cut for this podcast. So I don't know I still don't know like, okay. I know bore Amir's named now I know who Eric Gordon is like. I, picked up the names of the main characters, but if you ask me Where the hell you know. Gambling is from fucking know the name of that place I know there is. I know the. Galley. Who Gimle is okay I thought you said I thought she said where Gimli was location no, they'll where he said Ryan gimmes from. Yeah like. I'm still thinking to know that stuff, but you know Ram. I don't have a ton to say about this a from a lawyer perspective obviously, but I think you know you'll. You'll be able to handle that more than capably. I hope. So maybe before we get to for much further in, we should read. Dr. John's Detto because like if we're going to get the, he's also got some lightning round the questions for the end that will return to but Dr, John, Commission this podcast. Says I watch hundreds of movies each year, but this remains number one, all time favorite movie I know the movies long buys hoping you guys would excuse it because you've almost certainly seen it before they Africa is technically comes in under three hours. I'm impatient physicians while my life has been shit for the past five months. My financial situation is pretty stable thus he pulls the trigger on this commission. Thank you so much for all incredible insight and entertainment that you guys have provided over the years That's very sweet. Thank you. I just want to dedicate this podcast all the listeners struggling through covid nineteen pandemic is podcast provide a bit reprieve for everyone actually just finished reading the book for the First Time after a numeral movie watches, I really feel the film is an improvement on the source material as blasphemous as that sounds. WHO A Lot, I got I got some Harris later onto Dr John me to go dance slogan with you. Yeah. They cut a cut a lot of fat as crazy that sounds it's such a long movie r.i.p Tom Bombardier dill. I can't wait to hear you guys thoughts on not only the film, but also it's impressive production short Christopher Nolan's magnum opus. I don't think we'll ever seen epic production with practical effects like this ever again, this trilogy was the been her of our generation I remember reading daily updates, underproduction online. When is a middle school? A day may come when the courage of bald move fails, but it is not this day. Thank you Dr John. Yeah I I'm saying I this back. Do you remember? Did you ever read Harry Knowles ain't it cool news no not really. Because I got into that during the prequels and the Lord of the Rings and I. Got My daily doses of like you know what? What is this picture? What could it be it? All that kind of stuff. Mind spoilers for especially Lord of the Rings because how I read all the books read the summarily and all that stuff but I. I hope I can do justice to production because maybe we can start there. This is a crazy deal especially for at the time. Peter. Jackson went to new line cinema and said, I want you to give me money and time to film all three of these unfilmable books, I'm GonNa. Do I'm going to do it at the back end of the world far away from Hollywood across oceans and I'm going to use a special effects company. That's like essentially a farm team that I built up myself. I'm on a cast a whole bunch of people that you've never heard of and I'm going to go away and then a couple years. Later, you're going to get the first one and we're going to be desperately doing post production, but we're going to film this whole thing. now, a days that happens quite a bit. You know when they've got a well regarded Kinda sure thing trilogy were. But it's still kind of rare and it works and I think that. When you get into the production where you've got like there's like sometimes five and six active units filming all over New Zealand, which is a pretty big geographically diverse country the half filming spread all over we had this massive cast. You know the the castles I read off is just like those are the a one main characters you know. And you've got I I can't imagine a studio pressure on Peter Jackson he talked a lot in the commentary about the studio forcing things in and like having problems and him picking his battles and all that kind of stuff and the sheer amount of money that'd be flowing in and out I. Like this is truly what you call it epic scale especially since they were inventing special effects that never been used before that massive technology render these these giant armies That's that's one of the main things I remember about the production from. Contemporary with the being made is just about the digital effects they did to to generate. Yeah. Like thousands upon thousands of of digital characters in the background. But I think some of the most impressive thing than while like as as cool as a special editions were I'll never it'll never replace actually going to this exhibit and seeing how this stuff works but This stuff some CG is a little creaky because we're about twenty years beyond not not often. But most of the things like when you see Ian mckellen sitting across from Elijah Wood Ian mckellen looks like you know he's six foot tall and fro looks like he's four foot tall. You can't see the seems because they're not. They're they use really complicated like you know when you've got the Ian sitting across a table from Elijah Woods alleges twelfth further into the background and the US this gambled set. So when the camera moves from one and table to the next, the tables cut in half and has got like some kind of complicated hinge mechanism that moves it. So it act even though he's twelve further away the camera pans it and gets the appropriate pair if he's facing them and they worked out the sight lines, it looks like they're sitting, but there is no composite. There's no blue screen work for the vast majority and even stuff like. John Reese Davies is like this massive man he's like six, three, six, foot, four Elijah. Woods is a tiny guy. So they got away anytime. The dwarf is standing next to the hobbies. He looks like he's in perfect scale because dwarfs are smaller than men but quite a bit larger than hobbits and using those practical effects like the tw- The two evil towers in the movies are these twelve fifteen foot statues that they can just crazy get crazy detail and then this state take cameras in swoop up down them like their helicopters and ill never looked fake because it is real bright. And so much of this stuff Didn't they could spend the money at where. They have to nail column right and he is still a fact that stands up really well because they spent the money to make it I just I just think. If you watch these extended editions and all of the bonus material I have to feel like it's about like going to a years worth of film school. because. It's not just like a behind the scenes fifteen minute thing of how we did it. They show like all the camera tricks. They also talk about how like the stuff ties into the story and you know there is a whole hour documentary on adapting the book to the film talks about like you know their philosophy of you know making certain cuts and keeping some stuff and it certainly like do you I talk about the time that I went through the Top One hundred this movie and it's bonus features kind of ignited that love of film for me and I've heard several other people like Lindsey. Ella says the same thing happened to her and that's why she went to film school as because. Watching these special features made this thing go from being magical, which is amazing to like God. This is something people can do like these are techniques that can be learned. This isn't something that's like Wizardry, right? It is a lot of passion ingenuity but like you can actually do it and I think that no other film and it's behind the scenes ever made me feel that way it's like you know what? Why is my heart stir when this scene is happening and Peter? Jackson will tell me is because I use this technique and that technique and that technique and then I was obsessed I wanna go see all and he kept on referencing like I'm doing a hitchcock shot here and here I'm doing something that you know this is the Classic Casablanca Blah Blah and I had to go see all that stuff to see like where he's pulling that material. So. The reason I like this. This is kind of origins of Ball Bovina? Really Weird way because I don't know that if I hadn't gone through that appreciation a film that. Bad Madman reignited in that that in me like ten years later, I don't know that I would have sat down and gotten that much into the golden age of television. Had it not been for Lord of the Rings Sucking me into the art so spy first of Mini soliloquies on his podcast I'm actually impressed. With how much they were able to accomplish which with what I think by today's standards is a modest budget. This film had one hundred and nine million for its budget which. Back in pretty big I guess not a lot of movies were made above one hundred million. But For for today's effects, heavy films I don't know the number of effects shots the the amount of effects work they do in these films do in the scale of everything because everything is so epic in this movie. it's shocking to me that they were able to create it. Especially when you consider the talent, they hired those people were certainly getting paid the sound like these were nobody's back then right and now they've become huge stars. No, there was some of the best in the industry and so like getting them to do all this work In a one, hundred, nine, million dollar budget to me is incredible. and. The other thing is like this seemed to be one of the happiest sets I've ever heard of like there. There's a sad story about the hobbit that came the came back and did a lot of this stuff. But like all intensive purposes everyone loved working here, they got paid fair wages like there's multiple stories of Like they do this does grueling yearlong shoots and like the nine, the fellowship of the ring got very, very close. They all famously got tattoos matching tattoos they surfed together. They did a whole bunch of stuff and the like Peter Jackson's telling a story on the extended edition commentary without establishing shot Frodo. Establish him. He's not like other hobbits. You know he's quiet and bookish and his own that shot something that they. They did like six months after they wrapped the original shooting it's Elijah's first day being back at Frodo before they filmed them he was like doing this happy little jig because he's so excited to be back in New Zealand being Frodo again and get to see all of his friends and like apparent I mean I dislike last year on twitter the whole cast had gotten together spontaneously to kind of have a reunion and there ought drinking at a bar like everybody Ian, John Reese Davies, Sean being You know all of them are they're having a great time it. Not only was it hard but it seemed like it something incredibly satisfying they hired artisans to like experts swordmakers in armourers to like you know. Hey. Here's this fantasy armor like what would look like if it was real, you know and that's the thing that I came away with when I saw the exhibit is like when you look at this stuff and look at the stitching and the materials like this, this is it looks real. It looks like something a person would wear into battle you know it and Before this when I think a fantasy swords like Conan, the barbarian he's got this chrome doubt blamed out you know there's gills all and a hilts isn't where nate thing and you look at like Eric Gordon Sword in this, it's just a really nice sword. You know like it looks like you would really cut people's heads off where. It also felt like a real tool you know. It was different from all the other shit like crawl. He's got this like crazy Chinese star throwing star looking thing and. The ought the sword of attorney from the thunder cats like sure everything was was like this crazy ornate stuff. It didn't feel real or you remember when we watched, what was it That was that King Arthur excalibur. Where all the knights were wearing the slake essentially eighteenth century chrome doubt like armor that no one ever ever has worn before in battle chair This stuff is like you can tell like people craftsman sat like hired they didn't go out and hire some crazy movie artists that got leg John was is it John Lee? they got the two best token artists who had been drawn shit for years decades and said, Hey, you guys come in and designer sets. Nice, you guys come in and the the the people that have the passion for Christopher. Lee. You know who had corresponded with token before he died and. Had It goes through and reads the series every Freakin year like like a this Amodu like you get these guys in here and they're actually making suggestions improving dialogue it all came together to be you know it could have been a mess for all the reasons we kinda out but I don't know if it's because Peter Jackson that kind of kept things grounded and. About but it it's it's. I don't know it became more than the sum of all of its different parts. Felt. Like everyone was invested as Peter Jackson himself was like, okay. It's one thing to have this idea and WanNa do it but you need hundreds of people around you to have the same enthusiasm and. Just finding the right people I. I was impressed with actually the way that they did. The, whole digital side of this You know this, this film essentially built wetter and to what it is today and when they were going out to do like digital effects, they didn't know how to do this shit and they didn't have a team the couldn't do it. So they did according to the scant Background I've seen on this in in the. Making of and stuff is they got a bunch of people who were into like It just like students and like people who are passionate about doing this digital work. They and they hired them and said, Hey, do you wanna come make this cool thing with us and they're like, yeah, we'll figure this stuff out And they talked with with the I limb with Lucasfilm on some of the previous stuff that they were doing at the time to just get you know all the shots tinker with the shots and get him down to where they they knew. Exactly. It seemed like they had multiple stages of previous stuff like they'd have fiscal previous with some of this with Pierre Jackson with a little camera on a Rod Kinda zoomed through models. Framing shots and then they had like digital pre-bus and I was just impressed with the. The. The sort of like we'll get this done. You know to to an insanely high level like it's it's not like these graphics are Oh well, you can see the like they used a bunch of students and people who'd never done this before to make this film. This is some of the best effects work of the time, right? It was amazing to that. They could get that done with a bunch of people who had never done it before and it comes down to the passion they've got to. They've got show up every day excited about what they're doing and it seems like everyone on this production did. Yeah because it's going to be like a year long crunch mode from uh the person's and making foam rubber ORC mass to the person's doing and like for on the digital side that stuff didn't stop alike even when this movie rolled out the door, their toughest technical challenge bringing. Ghalem them to life late lay lay ahead and there's a reason like See Gholam for a fraction of a second this movie. Yeah. Was Jackson's he said this is our Alpha Gholam and I'm sorry and we knew we had to show him but we try to show as little as possible because we knew we weren't quite there with it. Hands is a silhouette that's really all I thought there was so much more column in this movie. Yeah. It's. It's kind of like jaws in that he's just established as this kind of. Shadowy Minnesota, and you don't really get a glimpse of him But yeah, like the it was you know the actress had to come back for re shoots and as a couple of cases where I can't remember I think it was a shot where the birds came back from the mountain to give ceremony report aware gained office taking the habits and I. Guess they had shut down production and all those big sets of like the The minds below is and guard had been put in storage and. Peter. Jackson's column people. where is that stuff? It's all. It's like seventy never pieces we need to get it screw back together because I got a pick up shot, I need to do on this set that's the size of a small church and they're like, okay, we'll get that done and it was like a this big piece like three years of some of these people's lives and they left it all out there on the screen and it's something you know like this movie will I full I? Fully believe this movie is going to be like, King. Kong. It's going to be like wizard of Oz where they will talk about one hundred years from now it will still be like a culturally important. I mean not maybe extended his today but it'll be one of those things where like people will still watch it and have fond memories of it is be handed down from generation to generation just like the books have been so what an accomplishment would be interesting. I wish we had time to talk about like what went wrong in the hobbit because the hobbit is like the Bizarro. Yeah. The rings production I. Hate Movies I hate them I said I saw them all and I've only seen the final hobbit movie, the battle of the five Fox or whatever I've seen that exactly once. Because I haven't ever seen it, I saw the first to know third ones on for me. They're not great. They're not great. That's let's say they're entirely trash fire but like. But it's the like okay. Opening Salvo of this conversation. It is the Anti Lord of the Rings because Peter Jackson, had way too much stuff that he could possibly film and Lord of the Rings, and it was mostly platinum and gold the hobbits the opposite the habits like a two hundred page kids book and he had to keep adding more and let's pull stuff in from the appendix pool stuff infamous Meridian as blow it up, make this a dark movie like Lord of the Rings even though the Hobbit is not a dark movie does have some scary? Parts like kids stories do, but it's like early going Harry Potter level. It's like book one or two of Harry Potter it's not even like book seven of Harry Potter let alone a movie where people's heads are being chopped off and flung into a city the terrify the like it doesn't have that gear but they're kind of trying to force it. Knowing that the hobbit should have been a one movie appendix to the Three Movie Trilogy of Lord of the Rings right like, yeah you WanNa make our and go for it but don't try to make this thing. You could even make to to our movies if you really wanted to take your time, but the three three hour movies is just insane it's insane and. Jackson wanted to do it is at the dark side of the passion like he's just got so much passion for this source material that he felt like, oh, there's an endless well that I can draw from here and. Peter. Peter Jackson. Wanted the hobbit movies to be made. He wanted his friend, Guiraud Guillermo del Toro make them. There was some kind of dispute and falling out with that didn't happen, and now he's got all these people that are friends and colleagues that rely on him for a paycheck. You know like all these people all this industry that he single handedly built. New Zealand they're all like come on Peter we're GONNA, we're and he kind of like had yeah who else would trust to do it and he kind of like forced himself to do it and he was exhausted like you look at. This other things like when I look at these special features and I compare them to like special features on the prequels and we even did Commission One of her last mission podcast in the first round was we did a look at a special features of. What was it revenge? I think it was called in a minute or something like that. Yeah Yeah was like chunk and everything that goes into making it. It's not like there's no passion on especially because you know these people were star wars fans from their birth and they're working on their dream movie, but you compare like. George Lucas going through mockups of jar jar binks and the the pre- The expand material for the phantom menace and you look at everyone kind of reaction you look at like Steven Spielberg's honest reaction of his first cut of the phantom menace you look at like there's this kind of like a pall cast over proceedings where everyone is so excited but they're like this isn't working for a lot of different complex reasons. Nothing is really working and you look at these where Peter Jackson's run around barefoot just excited like you go into this set that set like doing this great job. That looks amazing. I can't believe it looks so cool and does this energy he just as ball of energy and you look at him and he's also a fat. He's also this little fat hobbit run around and you look in the hobbit and he's lost a bunch of weight and maybe this is just but he looks gaunt he looks exhausted. And I just think yeah, I. think There was the passion there. It's just the money fucked it all up. You know the demand of having three movies. You know the the disputes that led to the alienation and the first director and ANA kind of our. We. We could do another epic thing just on the Hobbit I'm terrified because were like forty minutes. In this thing, we haven't actually began to talk about the movie you know as art our podcast tend to be runtime length anyway. So Fuck, love. Yeah. Yeah All right. So should we start? So we start formerly talking about the one more thing real quick I to run down some of the awards at one So talked about the you know the for this thing one, hundred, nine, million, it making like eight, hundred, almost nine hundred, million worldwide. So huge huge success awards wise. It got nominated for thirteen Academy Awards that came out. And it only one four of those which you know saying, Oh, it only one four awards ridiculous I'm. Sort of not surprised by the ones that had did win the ones that didn't So. So as the ones that at one were best makeup Best Cinematography, best original score and best visual effects. I mean those kind of seemed like no brainers I was surprised to see that it didn't win the best costume design of, of course, it was up against a Moulin Rouge which did win So pre-, pretty good design there in Moulin Rouge but. Lost a beautiful mind kind cleaned up that year winning best picture best director, best adapted screenplay. Black Hawk down was another pretty big one. Winning best sound and best. Film. Editing. So yeah, I mean like. Some stiff competition and I will say to Kinda Lean into more of the film itself and less at the production. I don't know that I like the middle of this movie and alive it has to do with like. It's fast and furious names of places and they're going like things seem to happen. Constantly in this movie. And it. It's not like I mentioned up front look it's. Act One of a three act structure here For the this entire film and I kept looking at it I'm going like man they're not doing any of the stuff I see in movies that I like which, which is a lot of foreshadowing right and a lot of character building and like. Put me put me in this place but give me like the media dialogue between characters those slower scenes kind of. Ground me in their narrative you don't see a lot of that. You get up front with the hobbits right I. Think those are the best service characters in this entire movie. It's like sure Bilbo Frodo Sam Gandalf, those are the main ones that I think they do a good job servicing the rest of them I think almost feel like throw away characters to me aboard Mir airborne. All the elves they're they're gonNA literally. Yeah former is the he hits thrown away by the end of the movie but. To me like they don't do a lot of the foreshadowing. That I expect of good films, and kind of the callback in the cyclical thematic stuff. And then I remember. Oh. Shit. This is act one right? This is all introduction and so it could be everything I'm seeing is foreshadowing we just never get to the part that we never get to the shadow part of it, right? Yeah. It's all four. Yeah I mean because like you know you're right First of all middle is movie being kind of a drag Mir's the book experience because I remember the first time I got through Lord of the Rings I got to the Council of L. Ron than I almost gave up like what is ninety pages of singing songs at tables and talking about their fathers I don't even know like and also like none of the main characters like frozen Scott be sitting here like the fuck talking about. Just, like you know six page poems and Shit like that and link languages that you don't even understand like they just start talking Elvis yeah. And I almost as a thirteen year old like the fuck is this I pushed through but like Jackson talks about in the the commentary. It's like you know the council runs rough. Yeah. How do you it? The the film has finally managed to build a head of steam out of this birthday party. And you've had disliked compelling action and like the plot humming and in the Council Valeron Bowl. and. His his thing is like get us Outta here as quick as possible and there's The expanded addition has a lot of stuff around this and it's funny when you hear about like I want these quiet immedi dialogues with Erik Gordon it's there. It's even film. It's all got cut because, Peter Jackson's philosophy of. The so much great material this book we can only keep the stuff. It's doing at least double duty, but there's a quiet airborne Gordon seen. We can keep it if it says something about boar Amir's character or establishes the stakes or points us into the next place we gotta go. But if just airborne by building his character, it's get out of there because it's we don't have time to do that. So. I don't know because and the other thing is like. I want to talk about heretical radical opinions on things because John You know had the doctor John had the like I will actually the movies are better than books. I would agree with like. So the the the books are like six books long and the council. The first book is very much the Hobbit like and you Kinda get that in the film like a birthday party and it's hobbits drinking and having a good time and Gandalf is enjoying stuff and then things kinda take a centers to turn, but it takes a long time for two books to get out of that like. Habat mode and then they go into council Valeron select. The first half of the book is not what I would call great. Now I think that from there on the books are amazing. They don't really like ever kind of like flag and quality and there's some things I think the books still do better but I will I my opinion is I think the extended editions are worst movies than the actual releases now? Roy. Now I'm not saying they're bad because as the Lord of the Rings Fan I love all of that I love all the. Stuff I love all the additional detail but they wreck the pacing of the films like adding another full hour. Almost of this does affect the pacing and the places where the film already has pacing problems like council valor on stuff more. Arrogant and making moon is that air? And him having his father are wins father coming bitching amount about it and stuff like that It wasn't the the pacing that I really had a problem with I. Think it's It's almost has like a frantic pace to it most of the run time and it's a long runtime It was really just like everything. is moving swiftly along but everything felt truncated because of that and like I expected more of that scene or expected to get more detail on this thing. But here we are in were on boats now and we're headed out of the village I wrote. Okay I guess I'm not going to get any more that. Local in. For. ORCS. It yeah. I didn't I didn't have a huge problem with like. It it not moving or dragging anywhere. It's just. Basically. Go the other way right like yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's too quickly paced. Sure. So Yeah I. Maybe should have watched the extended version but I don't know if that would have left me. Feeling like okay. Well, now it's too slow or it just doesn't connect the wanted to. Love you did I love here opinion on it because that's my like it There's some things I think you will get that. You'll like more of there's some things I think it'll feel like a drags a bit but it gets. So when I say it's like the radical versions are better films I mean that they're better structural films it's not that I hate all the 'cause I as a lord of the Ring Fan, I don't mind when things to slow down and we get. To see more of the stuff I think there's a point because I found that point in the fucking hobbit where it's like Holy Shit I'm tired of this shit and we can we just get moving on but no, I prefer I if I'm sitting down watching movies I, watched extended editions but I definitely think and I'll even as we go through seeing Mussina I'll put I actually made notes about what I thought was better and worse. So let's let's start at the beginning the prologue. One thing that I I guess are forgotten. I've heard all these before is Peter. Jackson talked about how Studio Canada had to fight him to put the prologue in because he's like Oh God is prologue. Ten. Minutes Shit that nobody cares about and all that Kinda stuff But then when they said, no, this thing needs a prologue you can't just start off at the birthday party. He kinda warmed up to the idea and in retrospect he says, it's it serves like a James Bond introduction that it's clear like you come into the movie and James Bond always hit with an action scene so like hey, if you're just at the mall restate pizza for lunch or you're worried about your job after ten minutes of the James Bond you're not gonNA. You're. Not GonNa Forget you're not gonNA remember that Shit because now you're watching James Bond Film and the film can then slow down and do other things and this you know quite impressive medieval fantasy battle that they opened up with like this feels important. You got this this you know Kate Blanchett speaking Elvis and talking about magic rings and you're like, okay, what is all this stuff and then they hit you Bam here's. Here's the first war of the ring Here's The sky this an looks like things are cool but then dude comes out and starts Swat one hundred people at a time and fingers get cut off and. and. It also does something I think is smart which it establishes the ring as it character unto itself. Yeah. That was the thing that shocked me on this rewatch his how much the ring does feel like a character like it's got a will. And a lot of that comes from the prologue because it gets you the you know the fact that the ring decided to do this or the ring since its master in the ring was able to do this, and the ring corrupts like and the rest of the movie in fact arrested the trilogy shot the wear. The ring is a character who has waited has presence it has a will that it wants to do it tries to corrupt and deceive. It tries to be found all all times and that all comes that all that tone all kind of set in in the in the prologue year it's an interesting dynamic because when you're seeing the ring rates going around, it's easy to think okay. Well, they can sense where the ring is and they're following it to it, but it's more the opposite right? The ring is calling them toward it. I. It just it's a different inverse feel from what I'm used to a film. Do you. Think that SAR on? Works as a big bad in the prequel because like in most of the films from this point on, he's giant flaming eyeball. Yeah I never got that like I still don't get that I don't think that he is like the I there. Some mysterious power he has over Remond is that the white the her uh-huh uh-huh. Yeah. I I. It's very confusing to me very. And it is I think to be fair I. Think it is. kind of silly that you got this big bad guy his power is using a mace to sweep twenty dudes off his feet with the stroke you know but he's also vulnerable to having his finger cut off by. A broken sword that also instantly self-destructs his entire Rome when that happens it's silly but kind of like a death stars got a tunnel that you can hear with the photon torpedo and the whole Shebang kind of way. Is that. There's no one ever talks. This is something I actually thought about but no one ever talks about like Sar- on feeling like a lightweight villain because it's a psychological thing, it's A. These movies has not quite yet come to his full power. They're trying desperately to keep that from happening and crucially he doesn't have his death star yet, right. So now it's more of seduction psychological stocking thriller abuse. You know kind of mental emotional abuse tail than what you're used to, which is like Darth vader direct conflict force lightning against force lightning, and it's more much more mental and psychological. Yet most people I don't think walk away from these movies thinking surrounds a shitty character it's just The. Movie kind of wills you into thinking he's a threat because what you see on the screen is just not quite enough to establish. He doesn't. Hurt. Anyone that we care about. Really. You know he kills some old dudes Grandpa and then fails to step on another dude. Yeah, a lot of that is done in in the prologue like you said. It's the description of of the forging of the ring. I think right like what they put what qualities it has about like man's. Quest for power and and all that stuff is all all the worst qualities of a villain wrapped into this ring and I was confused by that too because sarin. Is. The I. But. Sarah has also the ring they. There's a line in there where he something about like his essences is part of this ring or trapped in this ring or. Yeah, he used a lot of his personal power to put in like a because You know there's a lot of mythology because Sarah actually fallen angel kind of he's not a man or anything like that. Okay. he put a lot of his godly power into the forging of this ring, which means there's two things. It's Kinda like You Know Jar jar rolling rips a lot of this often Harry Potter but like he's very powerful. Yes, and he can't be killed because he's got this powerful thing that like if he dies, it'll continually regenerate him. It's also his this mortal weakness if you can ever find a way to kill this thing but that's other things psychologically anyone holding the ring. The last thing you WanNa. Do is destroy it. You want to put it on and you want to wield the power to good and then that starts that's the brilliant thing of it starts corrupting you and then you become either his week wretched creature that surround. We'll take over or you become the new dark Lord. You know like very much hints that if Gandalf Galadriel puts on the ring, they'll kick Zahran's asks for sure but you will rue the day that the beautiful terrible Galadriel becomes the dark queen of Middle Earth. You know it's like the devil you don't know and I think I think all that stuff works even if you don't know the deep lower. Is a little confusing to me because it was. So what is the I of sorrow on what the Hell is that thing? Okay. So like when someone's physical bodies destroyed in the prologue, it takes him a little eon to amass his energy back and he can't physically manifest body. He probably would have once he gets the ring back. You had turned back into giants are on mode, but all he is the spirit this baleful spirit that is. I, don't think it's ever. You're supposed to understand. There's literally a ball of fire in the books at the top of the dark tower. But he's just a spirit that's in this this inhabiting and collecting all the power and getting his lieutenants together. It's kind of helping him regenerate in the movie. There's make it literally. No, there's actually a ball of fire like, yeah. The the second ASEAN Tau Broadcasting This NFL not the same tower where sorrow Mon- no two hours as they'll explain the second. But yeah. No I I was listening to the Director's commentary mentions that they went through tons of different versions of this prologue. What are we leave what and when the final decisions is, who does the voice over and at first they said it's well, you know the the lower behind book is froze writing these stories like bill started John this journey, the diary of his tales and photos writing by froze own hand the account of this and stick was that Jr tolkien's recovered this ancient writing and translated it into modern tongue and it's it's a found footage seriously. Yeah exactly. But we'll have fro because it's his story, but it's like well, doesn't really work because who the hell is even Frodo and then. They had see Sir Ian mckellen as Gandalf. This is really powerful. It's working but then they had kate Blanchett tried as Galadriel and they really liked this kind of timeless elfish quality. She brought to the per the vocal performance and you know also out of that I think I think she's older than Gandalf for at least as manifestation of Middle Earth too. She's like one the oldest. You know physical beings and alert this point. Yeah. It makes sense for the elves to be sort of keepers of knowledge in essence they live Forever can live for a can. Yeah they can live forever until they get their stick is they can lift reverend till. They're too wary of middle earth and then they can go across to see and live in this Paradise Island retirement home. Floor and that's the things like that. The story of the elves are very very powerful but they're also just tired they're weary of at this at this point, most of the elves Gone West and sailed across and gone to heaven and a few the remain are there because of long term loyalty the people and they're just trying to kind of hang things on hoping that man because man is a second creation like they're a race that came up the God created after the elves and they have the gift of men, which is mortality like men are these you know. As opposed to elves who just reader lockout neither side of the mortality fence Well, there's there's big plots of in similar alien is essentially the powerful men being like this is bullshit we fought in die A. We're coming across. The were coming across the waves were taking more immortality for ourselves, and that goes about as well as you'd think. But no I. think that's the like the glads starting this off. You don't even know who the hell derail is but then when you I I just think it just works and I love Cate Blanchett's Quote this stuff and and by far like this movie I don't even know how things work without the prologue because this ten minutes of heavy going gives you an exclamation mark, the beginning of the movie, and also the constantly refer to it like they have the scene where Gandalf is talking about the L. Ron White doesn't trust men and you know a scene where they'd have to establish all this shit becomes. It's like a ten second flashback of the crack of Doom and works because they did all the heavy lifting in the prologue. Can Be like I was there. You know I I saw the evil like that kind of thing and your mind goes back to that scene. Yeah and think about how many conversations about the ring Gandalf is with Frodo that would be much heavier going if you didn't know what the ring was and its qualities and who made it and all that kind of stuff. So the the prologue is does a lot of heavy lifting up front. Then go to Hobbiton and here's my big problem with the extended edition. There's a lot of extra hobbit shit in this but universally, it makes the Hobbit seem on balanced like they're dumb assholes. Okay like they're just like picking their ears and eating earwax and they're doing things backwards and weird and you know and I think that's like It's like. It's like a sixty forty dumb asked a shrewd mixture and I think it should be like twenty to eighty like, yes hobbits are kind of backwards and they have their weird ways. But they're also like resourceful and hardworking and perceptive for you know the they have a lot of common sense and the introduction like seen that old pinched face hobbit that proud foot guy you know like with a scowl as like this nude this this Gandalf, he's always always got new ideas and these common in and he's Doing this stuff, and then him going to kind of like you know laughing along with the children being amazes fireworks and that's the perfect introduction hobbits that wedding feast where yeah they're doing a bunch of dumb asshole stuff but they're also super drunk and having a good time like all the extra habit stuff just makes the hobbit seem dumber and less impressive and I don't think that's what the movie and tunes certainly not how Tolkien felt about him veer deep space nine fan it's like rob versus Cork Right. Yes yeah. Of is incredibly dumb. You don't know how functions and the other one is like. Kind of an idiot but also, very shrewd. Right exactly. But. I just I don't know I like this. This hobbiton stuff is great introductions at hobbits and while they are, that's a wonderful introduction to Gandalf. Because geof is tricky dude he's this immensely powerful master manipulator, but he also has just in a ton of warmth and you know Frodo giving him the hug like I love is performance on the wagon where like he stone? Like. Stones these kids wanting to see his fireworks and like you know rides pass and he gives them just a little taste and reaction like, oh, that's a good one like he just ripped the really good fart and everybody's laughing at it. GANDALF dancing with the hobbits. His little demented chuckle as he goes back to his tent to get. They're going to wait till. They see this fucking thing. I E McCowan he's as fucking Gandalf I don't know how to say it because it's very hard to get that godlike being that's also approachable to not just children Bhave children you know yeah absolutely. I felt like key was. Half, grandfather have. You know amazing source her. And the other character instruction I think they do a great job with his Bilbo I I feel like bill is a real character, the history of it. Is only vaguely filled in here. You know he's an adventurer of some kind. He's got a book that he's been wanting to write for years this reasoning. Off. All. These things very unusual for hobbits. Right? You'd get that. Well. Yeah. So I have minor complaints about like them saying on and eleven I don't know what that means in terms like that could be totally normal or that could be my God they only live to ten typically I have no idea right You a little more color on that would've been nice but like. They do a great job with what they can put on screen here the amount of time they have and I feel like bill is one of the most fleshed in characters of all of them. and. It's all comes down to this scene and like. US later on like this, just this party and then when he meets them in Riverdale Riverdale The two times we see. Bilbo and I think both of them are very effective. and. You can Kinda they they. They hint because you. You think that Bilbo's are really cool dude like the scene where him and Gandalf are smoking. I think is amazing 'cause it gives you a first taste of like you know it's pretty mundane but the blowing that smoke galley is pretty fucking righteous. US I can blow smoke ring but look what this guy's doing and him being like at ease with this relation like Gandalf bill being at ease sets up their confrontation later on were Bilbo for some reason can't give this ring and it's kind of scaring Gandalf. You know yeah. I mean there's so much like you talked about the the double triple quadruple duty that these scenes need to do. I. Think they do as. Well in this early going because it's not only setting up bill as a character, but it's setting up the ring as a character in the properties of the affected the ring has on on the people who possess it and it's doing that. So efficiently, it's telling US enough about the character, but also more about the ring. And like azure establishing Gandalf, enjoying making children, laugh and dancing hobbits. Also, they introduced Marion Pippen is being as mischievous guys who don't necessarily think before they. Act and they're kind of decidedly unharmed petition kind of getting in trouble This stuff is just I think it it just it just all works really great and that seemed between Bilbo and Gandalf where GANDALF has to in. You know Bilbo's like you just WanNa steal my ring and Bubel bargains that stuff could very easily be parody right? Like if you have an actor who's not taking this seriously also in Home Holy Shit. Fantastic. When he does that like I almost think it's overkill turn him into a Goblin Face Grin Dale, because he's so good at like making his eyes bulge out and giving that kind of like Oh this is early stage Gholam that he's catching earliest they'd rather keep on saying Gholam early stage Ghalem this guy like when he like lights is up and says my any stroke and says my precious his eyes look like they go slid like reptile reptile but there's no practical effects there. He's just acting maniacal like the ring is getting domination over him. Yeah, and it's just great I think like like this scene that kind of relaxed me as a Tolkien fan like they're going to get this but. Really. Like I could even go back to like when Gandalf knocks on bag in and I'd read so many descriptions about what it looked like and it's also something that a lot of like tolkien artist like to illustrate and they just not not gonNa Park you can still go to New Zealand today and tour Hobbiton. The whole human scale set is all there they keep maintains 'cause it's great for tourism, but it's a real place. It Looks Real I? Guess Peter Jackson revealed in the commentary that he's got this set stored away in his personal belongings the entire human sized bag in set because he wants to build it before he dies, he wants to actually live there. Because it's such a comfortable cool like womb-like place. He said that the circular walls and whatnot. But the fact that everything this built in two scales human scale hobbit scale. He also said that I intentionally did a lot of flashy special effects work up front like there's a scene where again this twenty years ago. GANDALF on the human sized set hands his his hat and staffed to Bilbo on the Hobbit said. And, that Shit looks real like I can kinda see the composite on a really good four K. television the BLU ray. Sure. But it's really really good and another thing I learned is when Ian smacked his head that that was not scripted, he organically smack is head in mcallen being actor is had instinct to just stay in Gandalf like that's what Shit again, that's head on this. And they put it in the movie that organic take of him smack in his head. I I. Just I love that and did did you get to like? Doesn't know what the ring is. At this point He's got suspicions based on what Bilbo does with it and how bill bowes acting towards it but he doesn't know that this is the one ring And, I I is me all the reading on her right and realizes Oh that's that's the ring and and they really sell that because testing I don't fire. The when he comes back like he's he's like mud on his like he's like done like really fast riding over bunch of crappy gun here there, and then all this research is hairs all out of whack and all that kind of stuff I love how they make Gandalf seem like he's been lived in. From the first time meeting. When he comes back, I'll desperate the figure stuff out and I love how they sell that initial inkling suspicion where he looks at the ring on the floor and he by the way they use a shit. I I'm getting to digress I'm like three digressions deep though hit limbo he goes to been downing these barely touches it and they they hit you with that ring fire right? And it's like Oh, and my God what could terrified Gandalf? BUYS WANNA say they use a lot of techniques to make the ring seem supernatural, heavy and impressive like when Gandhi when Bilbo drops on the ground it lands and just doesn't bounce because they've had a powerful magnet under the floor, and this is like a very heavy steel ring and it. And doesn't bounce not. I think stuff like that is really fucking cool. Another tidbit that I learned from the document the commentary is later on when there's a scene where the ring is an extreme foreground and his mountain pass and boroughmuir picks it up and talks about you know. So strange it this tiny thing holds the fate of us all that rings like eight inches wide on this massive gold chain because the only way they could get the extreme shot of Frodo and airborne into background and all that stuff to work and read against his brilliant White ground and brilliant blue sky like everything else look blurrier out of focus is made the ring huge hand. It sounds my film is just a nightmare for affects production but also like Super Fun, I got imagine like figuring that stuff out of plastic and I also someone in this world has this giant flavor flav style rating. I tried to do is like is there like Peter Picture Peter? Jackson. A wrap party wearing that thing because like how awesome would that be that massive? Dinner Plate sized the one ring that you're wearing like some massive middle earth. Him You. Did you the one thing that stood out and I'd never noticed before Elijah Woods poor fingernails. He just choose those two like he's got no fingernails at all man, his four. Are you? Are you sure I feel his pain? Yeah I got similar. No fingernail thing. Does that hurt your fingernails hurt all the time they can if he drove down to far but I don't man. To a balance. Okay, 'cause wondering because they looked like like red and swollen. Every. Time I there in frame like Oh. My is poor guy. Taking this film must really took it out of him. But yeah, like I go ahead. Yeah. Jump in please I was GONNA say so the next thing that happens right as they head over to like you know the the ring rates get winded like Gandalf comes back and says, Hey, you got the ring go to go debris. Meet, you there. And he gets he gets hung up you know he goes out to Sarmento Monta, try consult with him. And and turns out our minds infested by Zahran. And doing his bidding and there's this old man stick fight. which I think it's fucking hilarious. I think this s this is a hallmark Peter. Jackson if you've ever seen any of his older stuff dislike. Half slapstick kind of fight it. It's reminiscent of brain dead dead alive whatever you WANNA call it. That kind of that kind of to write it almost feels like. This amateur. AMATEUR PRODUCTION AS AMATEURS SEEN A. Fully mainstream high budget film It looks stupid to me. But like in that Peter Jackson way that I really cannot love I have my notes that it's. It's too old men engaging in a high stakes. I've fallen mechanic get up fight. Yeah. Yeah. Who just like pushing each other battle to the first broken hip. But also. I also, that's one of those things where I think it's cool because I guess I was expecting some like giant wizard duel with fireballs and Shit and willow I thought willow actually has a better wizard fight scene it. Does. But it works in kind of like there. Because I guess in magic and especially in Tolkien, it's not so much about like the physical manifestation of power as it is like you understand that when. When Saruman and GANDALF are fighting, it's as much on the spiritual plane. It's a battle of will and and power as much as it is. You know some Ninja staff kind of stuff. But. It still feels like a moment when Sarma gets both of those staff since like Oh man Gandalf's ashes grass now. Yeah But before we go to that I I to go back in this other thing where the prologue shine so well is when Gandalf goes and tells frodo about all this stuff and I also think they did a good job of establishing a lot of questions. I. Think Reason I ask why does it again they'll just take this fucking ring if it's the ultimate power, right? And they do a good job of showing like what a bad idea that would be with in. So many words I love the brief Relief Gandalf feels win. He thinks it's not the one ring 'cause it's in the firing like there's no words and he's like Oh thank God and then the words appear I think that's that's great. And I think it also just speed things up. You know it takes a while to go from the birthday party to like Fratto hitting the road, and there's a whole lot of preparation and stuff in the books were. This is just like go go go go go go go. Inside remember taking very long but yet. It moves on and I also just loved the introduction. Of Sam. Sean Astin is such a great job because like he is the. kind of dim would not dimwitted but you know he's not super curious. He doesn't read books. He loves the land he loves working with plants and animals but he's a good. He's a good friend. He's No. PIP PIP. Is the dumb ass of the group in my pet. Now he's he's he's not foolish but like I love Gandalf's face when he's fucking with Sam like Oh, please don't turn me into something unnatural and he's like no and also frodo being in on the joke like. Turn you into you dumb, ass. But that he is going to be a psychological bullying you into being photos bodyguard Have you seen this came a couple of weeks ago. There's someone made a super cut of this film wherever times. Everytime Sam takes a step. They cut the scene of him saying one that's it one more step and I'll be further from home that I've ever been before and it's like a twelve hour of this movie. That's ridiculous I. Love It. I do I do love the the attention to detail but I also I just think Christopher Lee Christopher Lee wanted to began off he lobbied really hard because he and I don't know maybe ten fifteen years ago he could have been. I, think he's too old for that now but he's so good at being the formerly righteous. Now twisted an evil version of sorrow because you can see it you can see him being this impressive figure in like a council ron situations gleaming white robes and his craggy face with that kind hooked nose and all that stuff he looks like a fucking Lizard. Yeah I'm trying to picture him as Gandalf I. I don't think of Christopher Lee as a particularly warm presence in his films and granted I haven't seen very many of them I'm sure. There's plenty to work where he is but I think of him more as a ceremony then again for sure. but the either then when they're on the way that the the first appearance of the Ring Raith they do that what they call the hitchcock shot which such a simple effect but they're. When they're looking down the road and like Elijah Senses Something Eagles coming and the way they get that effect where it feels like things are getting bigger and smaller at the same time as they pull the camera back on a Dolly at the same time physically pushing the the camera Lens Zoom Yeah and I still don't know how that works makes the light. been the but it it is like this cheap, very effective like something is wrong here and the bugs boiling out of the ground thought was cool like trying to get away from this evil presence it does a lot to establish these writers t terrifying you know presences and I. Still think they worked like one all time best villains of cinematic history. Yeah works until. Airborne. Kicks like five of their asses burns one and spanks some back home to their mommies like. In. That just makes Eric. Gordon. Look much cooler. Sure. Sure. That's fair. but they also established the habits of being even Pippen Mary here their gain they don't know what the Hell's going on these. They should be terrified of these guys but you know what? FRODO needs their help and. They're going to give it to him. We do the prancing pony and here's where a lot of other techniques where if you if you if you look for this, you'll see it all the time but a lot of the people walking past. FRODO are on stilts with like prosthetic hands and stuff cheese. And you'll never notice that until you start looking for. But once you do, you can't unsee like everybody in the background is lumbering around in these giant stilts and there's like foam rubber hands swinging in the place. Wow but I think airborne's introduction where he's in that corner in the dark and like his eyes blaze with this tobacco pipe is one of the most bad ass introductions in all cinematic history and it works really good and also continues the theme of how Damn Brave hobbits are because this guy snatches up there boy and thirty seconds later. Perry Salmon and Mary Salmon Pepper, in they're wanting to throw down with this dude who just fraction. It's great and the nine coming into the the prancing Pony fucking shit up and screaming. Great, seen that especially, the one that really gives me chills as win. They're all kind of gliding past the BARKEEP. On the other side is desperate not to be seen man I it it gives me chills the thing about it. You call them the nine thought that nine was the group of. Of people who are escorting the ring. It is both it's. It's the fella is the nine were kind of I think L. Ron makes a passing reference to like how fitting it is that you got nine companion against the nine. You know mortal men or giving these rings of corrupted him into these rates equal opposite sort of thing yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. but like there's so much stuff like on the road, the weather top where there's the famous second breakfast thing establishing while their game and they're brave they really did not know what they're getting into the fact that they are hiding out and setting this fire on this raised exposed thing even Frodo knows that's a bad idea. Yeah. But just like these little things where it's like these guys will grow into very. Impressive warriors by the end of this but they start off just dumb asses. You know that don't think about anything before they do it and this was you mentioned that like a Vigo Mortenson comes Fox's rates up. That's his little first day filming to do you know that no I didn't he had never held a sword before in his life and the stuck for Nader he flew in the New Zealand's like look I got twenty four hours to get you some basic moves and it is like a pretty basic sword fight. But I think it's like pretty like video. Really just swing. He spinning around swinging a sword and a torch, right? Like he's not. Doing much but I think I thought they did from storytelling I thought they did a good job showing that like this is all he can do to keep these guys at bed like he's like stumbling like making desperate swings, easies and fire he's in his. Plus you don't I don't. Do you get like airborne is also like a special dude that he's got like magic blood. No I I? No. No I. Mean I. I get nothing from bore. Mir I get nothing from Gordon I get nothing for most of the elves. It's like They're characters who are there for later movies in my opinion. Yeah I mean that's like the I guess to modernize its little bit problematic aspect of tokens work as he does have this kind of some people just better than you. Doesn't mean you can't be a hero because fro- does not special. He's common dirt by Erik. Gordon. He's just going to be flat out better about it. He'll bow down to but he's got magic blood and you don't so sucks to be you lesser hobbits now I gonNA matching blood thing but I definitely was getting a Han Solo chasing the stormtroopers down the hall screaming kind of Vibe from you fight they're going like. This is this is desperation shouldn't work, and it's only by sheer force of will and fury that it does. If he also the fact that the hobbits bottom a little bit of time in the fact that the ring rates there to steal the ring and that just kill everybody. There's there's a lot of I think interesting things that they're doing to make it but also, yeah because Vigo Mortenson, I can't remember the guy that replaced them. But like they hired as younger guy and Peter, Jackson's just like this guy's not pulling it off he's not getting the. We need somebody in day they replaced them at their literal last minute appleseed already filmed a little bit with era Gorn. I wonder the guy feels like he got replaced and this went on to become like the biggest film of generation. I imagine if you're Luke Skywalker and you know like six days shooting like this guy's not working get Mark Hamill in here like man the what if? Headline that maybe Jake Jilin Hall was considered for Furrow. It's I Want WanNa say it's the dude that was in that vampire movie with A. Oh God of the damned the. Something the damned. Yeah Queen of the damned Queen I think somebody but it's a much younger guy who's not Vigo Mortenson. I'd I don't Vigo Tap Lookin. fucker. Might might be might be. But yeah, I think that's one of the the Kinda Great. You know what? IFS Because Vigo I can't imagine anybody else being in at this point. Yeah. But they also change like. So the person that comes and rescues Frodo and takes across a river is supposed to be this other unnamed. You know he's not an unnamed glor- fandel in the books but they changed to our one which I thought a smart has the other big criticism from these films is there's not enough women right if you're if you're a young teenage girl and you WanNa see yourself in this world. you have e Oh Yowen in the second and third films who has pretty bad ass role but there's not there's not a lot of characters and giving our some of these action shots and I think like her horse chase is like one of the more exciting things in the movie. There's especially if you're a big fan, there's this point where she speaks Elvis to her horse where she's encouraging it to go faster. And I swear to God this horse puts in a performance like it's like hell yeah. Are when I got some more and reserve to. Really digs in his hoof and goes faster. Is One of those scenes where it's like. Vin Diesel flips on the afterburners in and fast and furious like I. Don't know how. But the Horse emotes that he's trying to go faster and it's a great scene. It's one of favorite things I like the look for one one of the best things they do in this movie is is tied up in this decision During the entire film, the NAS- goal are up their ass like there is never a moment where I feel like, okay they've hit a a point of safety can settle down and and really like catch their breath. The Nasdaq up there asked this entire movie. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a brief responded ribbon or the power of the elves can repel repulsed them, and also I think you know they got that eventually right? Like that's right the. Stay there, they stay there eventually SAR sorry on will reconstitute. He'll come down with all of the armies and destroyed vernice places ground. Yeah. So it's huge, but it's not safety. There's a ticking time Marino with the ORC army that he's building ORC, Goblin Army yet they do a good job of making it feel extremely urgent that they get on with this fucking quest. Do you think like one of the big reasons that Tolkien wrote this book as? Experiences with world, war one and seeing the industrial revolution destroying the English countryside do thing and that's one of the major themes like mechanized warfare and how inhuman it is, and I thought if you know that theme going in there, there's a lot of good stuff where like Sarah is callously you know ripta trees down that route you know and they're they're turning it into steel and they've got these birthing chambers of the guy. Did you get that like? No Now it's a shame but now say I I see a little bit of yeah. Yeah. I mean, they cut out the entire part of the books where because the Lord of the Rings and the books ends with the hobbits coming back to Hobbiton with no one to help them. But they're still a remnants of SAR like sermons like slave labor empire they've turned Hobbiton ended his nightmare on the APP personally run them off just with their own skills and ability that they've gotten from fighting in the war of the ring. And they they really explicitly make it that you know like like how bad these working in factories are, and you take these simple folk and you take away their land, you poison the river and what are they got left But I thought they did a little bit of a Tolkien fan you kind of see that in the margins here of that work. But yeah, you get the ribbon. Day on the Council of L. Ron than the plot just slams to a halt and in the books it's ten times worse. But I don't know I think they quickly, they frequently introduced borough and set him in somewhat opposition era out think it makes sense if you don't know the book plot, but you get it, there's a little bit of beef. You know can also Era Gore airborne his dress stop and he's wearing fancy clothes and just the way he carries himself among the elves kind of sets him apart from Boroughmuir born your fumbling this artifact that's in their shared history but. He's to blustery to give it. It's appropriate respect I think all that stuff is good and Man. Live. Tyler to me is like the top three all-time most beautiful fictional characters as arwen like. I'd something about her does glows in these movies and. Is glowing like, yeah. But but like I remember back in the day, some movie reviewer described her as having a certain bovine beauty and I wanted to fight them like I got so angry at them besmirching my lady's honor that I, wanted to go and fuck and fight them. Beauty Y- what cow like what is cow-like about? What does the beautiful about cows? Okay. Sure. This guy talking shit some guy. Talkin. Shit. You wouldn't do that of Eric Gordon Room Anyway. I Jackson the birthing stuffy talking about the birthing chamber of the Recai. Like Dad she it is real gross a which I like to see and be it's it's a real good introduction to the leader of that Warrior race I don't know they record. It's a high hybrid, right? yeah I didn't know if I was the. Name of the the particular If it was the name of the species, he's creating the the warrior race or if it's just know that guy's name. You've got the common work and these are the Eric Hi that he's he's perfected but that's because I that stuff's not in the book the fact that they have a leader, but you need that I need that. So you have the emotional climax era whip in his ass in the the final film and make it a personal bore. Mir's death personal. You've got instead of dislike band ORCs evil personified. I that's I. think that's a smart adaptation to yeah. Just killing another work goblin creature wouldn't have done it at the end of this movie. Jackson mentioned that like this shoot for the Council of L. Ron has a nightmare took him like seven days of eighteen hours shooting and like how complicated it was to keep everyone's I line and the camera moves. Because you don't cross the line and all that stuff which I think was was interesting. But also like, yeah, it's a nightmare into book like it takes six to seven days read. To make it through if your thirteen year old, he's. But there's also a lot of I thought Like Told Ian mckellen the play Gandalf Frodo volunteers for the ring as if like your son volunteered to to go off to fight World War One you know. But but you also know it's necessary for him to do so and I'm Mike Shit. Yeah. That's exactly what he's. He's given. and I thought like it's everything is moves. Once you get past that like Ian homes given one last chance showing, what will what fate will will will meet Frodo if he doesn't master the ring The the giving of the sting and the Mithra vast I thought was really cool will. I do think Bill Bowes Fayssal. Trans. Transformation Dow is a bit much I get certainly effective and I bet shit my pants first time I. saw it in the movie. But I feel like Ian home just do that yet. But I don't think it added. I don't think it was warranted given what it it added I also, really like win. The hobbit show up in volunteer for the quest along with Frodo that whole scene is cute and I like the cute stuff to the hobbits are doing throughout this entire movie. Yeah it's important to their art that they have to start this way and also this. There no like that. You could argue that they got into this thing blind on the road debris. But now they've been through all that stuff and they know the stakes and they're still volunteering to go to this crack of fucking doom sounds like this is what happened to you in the Shire now you're going to go to this place. Called Mawr and gross this this the ring into the crack of doom at the height of all these people power these these little people are just volunteering for it's A. Beautiful something about the human spirit. On the way to Mawr. There's a lot of like again like all these heavy lifting scenes, they have like this comic scene of the hobbits and Boroughmuir, of play fighting him training them. But that sells the hobbits later kind of distinguish themselves a little bit in combat in this movie and a bunch in the rest also explains why bore Amir would fight to the death for them and why the hobbits would be you know So endeared that they'd try to defend him like this is setting all this stuff up for the climax of the movie and sacrificed a lot of this stuff a lot of the road trip monster. Fight this monster that monster endure this hardship that hardship for a little bit more on development of characters a little more context for everything. Would have been my preference but I again, I acknowledged this part one of three part story. And I just think that enough. People say plenty but this movie is so beautiful because it really showcases New Zealand. Yeah. These shots in the mountain and when they're just like doing the, you know just randomly walking through fields and forests and stuff that. George Lucas shoot and green screen and have a bunch of graphic artist gin up something. But Holy Hell. You can't beat these dudes in a real. Real place like I even thought that that like the place where they're hiding from the birds at that might be CG but Peter Jackson said, no, that like the him and one, the helicopter guys were flying over on the way another set and this helicopter guy mentioned sounds really cool. Place in the mountains got all these kind of like stonehenge formation and Jackson's yeah. Buzzed by it and he's like Oh yeah I wanna take a picture that will come back here I mean New Zealand's has got all is middle earth it's got all this shit for free. To go out with a camera and film it, they use it all man they go from the top of the earth way up in the sky all the way down to the depths of the core like. It does add I will say like, yeah I, could've used of that and more context, but also it adds to the epic feel of the whole thing, right? And there's a lot of stuff for like book fans like you probably didn't don't notice but legless when he's walking through this waste foot waist-deep snow is he actually glides along top his. Feet the okay because like that's Like the Alpha -bility because like I. Well, I also know from talking with you and all my other friends from that era like. They're you know the elves are like fleet of foot and very? You know they have the agility and acrobatic abilities and and from seeing future movies that hadn't come out yet we're dancing elephants and shit. I noticed that and I was like Oh. That's that's cool. I. Think it's it's one of those things that's kind in the margins that it's such a nice touch. They don't go into like all the different magical abilities but like the fact that these elves. The Eric, hire these heavy putting. Breaking stuff as they walk and elves just like they don't even been blades of grass they've leave no mark on the land. The land can't really do nothing natural can do anything within like legless doesn't feel cold know the earth can't hurt him because the they have this like special relationship with it I think the shit that Shit's really cool. I love Gandalf and Saruman weather off or they're chanting at each other. Trying to undo each other's magic, I guess I guess what they're doing is trying to. Sermons on a wake-up, this mountain spirit and Gandalf trying to put it the back to sleep which is from from the books by love that I. Love that C-. Christopher. Lee at the top of or thank dislike conjuring up this wicked storm it's so cool. Here's the thing I couldn't help but notice during these traveling scenes They're they're going across the countryside here and I'm thinking back to the scene where like Is it is it? Is I live Tyler are win conjure a bunch of horses in the river and sweeps away nozzle that are coming after them. And I'm thinking of that and I'm looking at this traveling group and I'm. CNN. One fucking horse one horse it's it's literally there couldn't be. You couldn't leave more important mission of more important class that they desperately need help for and the L. send him off with a single fucking horse. Are you kidding me not even a horse? A Pony County? You're right and you know the elrod had a stable of these famous. Immortal Alpha. One. Yeah just make out SEAFOAM cheeses. I mean she's riding one right she picks up a true. Well, maybe she gets that from from someone he gets that from Eric Garner something else have to have horses right? Absolutely. GotTa Voices. They got one because I'm thinking like well, maybe they're philosophically against writing in the banana. Are, wins riding one right there. she's damned good at it too so. You, mentioned there's not a lot of foreshadowing but there is a little bit here where they foreshadow how bad idea the going through the minds of Moriarty and the ball off because like Christopher Lee's reading scripture up about it and they're like he's Taunting Gandalf from far and you're like Oh man is looks fucking. this looks like a bad idea and also the fact that Gandalf just does not wanna go like. Lot and the fact that the rest of the nine like you're insane old man for taking this way and he's still knows that this is probably the better path. FRODO. Hadn't pushed out. But What you 'cause like Peter Jackson mentioned in the commentary that the water is big squid thing he felt like at this point in the movie, you needed a big monster seen because number one. It's cool that you had this big monster seen the studio wanted to cut it outburst. Now we need we need a big monster fight here and also it commits the group. Because they go in here and they see like Oh shit the dwarves are not only. Gone, but they've been brutally massacred with. Org. Arrows Oh. My God that go to Lieven they can because the other thing is like as everything gets worse and worse than worse than the minds the natural things look let's just go back and find another way. They can't. It's a one. It's a one way journey and I think that that watching waters one, the best you know rubber movie monsters of all time even though it's all digital. Yeah. No, it was. It was a cool seeing I. Think you absolutely need it to to seal them to their fate Essentially an noticing moments like that where they they do it they do stuff like that where I'm thinking is this necessary like why I would just cut this whole fucking thing like those birds that come flying by and I'm like, Oh why are they having a pack of birds come through who gives a shit and in the later reveal those are going actually to Sarah Mind and they're telling him where they're Adan. So okay. They did actually need those. That actually might be why they don't have horses because I know there is this thing that. SARUMAN had an sarin have spies everywhere and they're looking for a big like what sore on would do in this situation as you'd get all of his do together and he'd come and kick ass enforce and he doesn't expect like the small kind of lag minor detachment and like keeping it going along like dangerous pass broken ground where maybe horses gang I mean I'm I'm I'm apologizing for the film here yeah I mean there's a giant bird that could have. You know carry. They could just gotten right here whatever the Lord the Eagles and just finished at all. But but then what happens that eagle gets gets ideas and decide to put that ring on its Talen true on Stein you've got to the Dark Eagle Lord that rules you all. Taking your babies back to his roosters foul breed. The dismember and the tariff like so many springer's But this Some of the best nhs in this movie, the things that I have the human, the one that really resonated me especially watching this year is where Gandalf gets lost, which you know I think it's a great touch that Gandalf as powerful as he is he still kind of human but he has a great conversation with fro photos like talking about like I wish my uncle killed you know Ghalem and he's like we'll do because there's many deserve death but there's lot of dead that deserve life. Can you give? It to them I don't be so quick to deal out death and judgment, and then frodo turns the whining about I wish none of this had ever happened and gals like everyone that lives through times like this wishes they weren't here but that's not for us to decide. All we have to decide is how to use the time we have and I'm like I watched that early goings on this year and I've thought back on it many times that like no this sucks. This fucking sucks. Two thousand, twenty socks. But what is bitching about going to do like what can you do to make things better? What can you do to strengthen your friends your family all that kind of stuff yourself I I don't know it's been I don't know how. How well I'm applying that but I felt I felt like Kismet that I got that right as all the stuff started happening. And I think that's one the great great scenes between Frodo and Gandalf you ready for more Lord. Of The rings heresy. Yeah bring it. I think Maurya socks it's designed sucks like this is supposed to be a greatest. Dwarf in city a marvel a hall something that like I'm a dwarf would be like they call this place a mind it's a fucking mining. It's a fantasy. Big. Deal go to any salt mine looks the same. They got big ASS. I've been to one of these things. There's a place like right outside of Louisville. Whereas a giant salt mine, it looks dislike it like these infinite football fields with big load-bearing bearing salt collins where they can't mind at all outer collapses over they. Dwarf in ruins that's the question. Doesn't fancy displays doesn't look like anyone ever lived there and made either go in through the back roads or whatever I wanted to see like a glimpse of the great city and it can be dour and gloomy because it's not lit but I never I never got that actually when they go do you remember? Of this theatrical of like when they go into the city of the dead and the third movie to recruit the army of the dead no shit looks like what I think. Maurya should have looked like a once great but decrepit underground Acropolis now, and I don't feel that like Maurya to me is actively working mines, abandoned minds and one small inexplicable tomb where the dwarves took a a last stand out why? Why here I don't know I always thought they're gonNA Warrior designed socks or stand I don't know. Yeah. Yeah You're much columns I didn't I wasn't impressed. It's it's it's. Dumb. There should shops and houses and playgrounds and all kinds of stuff. So hate it. I do I do like there's not a lot of comedy in this film especially as we go forward. But like I felt like the one, the last ones is pippen accidentally kicking that skull down the wall well, and just like bring. That's like the last time where you can make kind of like laugh along with everybody and you got that sigh of relief and then the drums hit and then like the movie brief pause in Law Florian and then it's a sprint from the rest of the film I do like the moment of comedy when they're they're headed down the stairs and they're trying to dump this gap in you know Gimle like nobody throws dwarf and also not what he does jump not to be. It's good. I liked it. I forgot you're right. There are a couple more ha-has. But I do think that like. My problems with more is designed aside, this is a spectacular fight like this thing that happens in the burial tomb of Belan or I. Think it's at who it is. With the case drills. He got sting glowing and even Gandalf as kicking ass with his sword Glam during a staff and you spin it around doing shit and like everyone kinda gets their own like Sam's Watan guys with his cast iron pans The introduced the myth real like gets these moments of like bad ass really establish early going leg because you know we heard her out a kick ass the elves are but like we don't really see it and how much like like one leg is worth like ten of the others it seems like. Even, though I think arrogance supposed to be the fiercest at the ASS kickers but. I just think it's amazing and it's still like there's a couple of creaky CGI elements but the cave troll I think mostly holds up because it's in a dark dank and there's not a lot of light bouncing around. The way they played the cave troll as kind of like a simple childlike he's not really evil. He's kind of been He wouldn't want to be doing any of this stuff. They've put him up to it. It's kind of like sad when his death has kind of played on a somber note I like that I love like how the whole the whole fellowship like goes lights on fire when Frodo looks like he gets skewered and they all just kind of like get battle frenzy from the hobbits down to everybody I thought that's really cool. and even to like the detention detail every ORC faction as a slightly different. Like these I think are like what you would call goblins. They're like slightly smaller. They got the big dark adapted is they look different from the the the mortar or select different from the high like day all it feels real like these things have been out here for thousand years and they started to adapt to their conditions I. think that's and they have different individual like these guys. Armor is like black and beat like I am probably I. Wonder because it looks like it's better and I wonder if that's because they have all this dwarf in steel that they're able to use where all the other orchestras using like wrought iron shit and like just very primitive cleavers and whatnot I mean, that's where the passion behind the scenes comes through right? Like it'd be so easy to just say, well, the orchestra, the ORCS, let's load them up the same gear. Let's load them up the same makeup done. You mentioned the staircase has the scene it's collapsing has like the last moment of comedy. I do think that even in the theatrical version that staircase scene is a lot. You know it breaks up the momentum of them desperately running from this. Hague into sets into a five minute Indiana Jones action piece where they're tossing dwarves and and teeter totter and all the stuff. It's visually impressive for sure. But I felt like it kind of harms the pacing. Yeah, you're probably right. Probably Right. That's not a moment where you necessarily want to have a lot of slow down. Like I. I would love to see a cut of this where they go from fleeing the big chamber and they instantly the ball rag ladies barely make it out across the bridge and then the ball Rog is there. But know like I said I do like the door dwarf stuff and the beard and. It's it's pretty good plus it's got some the as archery like let. Those three hundred yard headshots Some of that stuff is very cool and I'm glad it's in there but still affected because they're just like flopping arrows at their feet right they can barely even get the Arrow that far that the goblins. And he's just nail him. Because, he's just Elf blood. You think Eric Bloods, good phut Elf blood also. So the ball Rog is one of the that's another one that I remember thinking like what is this thing? GonNa look like as it wasn't intense debate the book this it's very, it's described vary. Metaphorically in the book, and then there's a little bit of stuff in the million about like masses, of Bowel, Rog armies and whatnot But there's like all these debates about the ball have wings like what is something that's made out of flame and shadow even look like because those are two contradictory things and. I've seen different takes on them and I never was quite satisfied. But when the ball Rog jumps out of that pit, like fucking, this is a ball rog. That's exactly flaming shadow looks like. It's like living volcano thing does it have wings? Yeah, I think. But could they also be shadow and you know what is real about this mythical thing I? It's it's amazing and. His standoff with Gandalf just works gandalf standoff. Punch of like. You know energy shooting from their fingers or anything. Right it's all about will. It's all about. Some intangible power. Yeah and ultimately of wins that right? Like that's the thing that I think is so great as wins that and it's only by. Essentially an accident that he's dropped into this pit. Yeah and also the it it really hinges on Ian mckellen being able to summon up every bit of his personal power and scream you shall not pass believe it athletic. You'RE GONNA be your ass. If you cross it yet your ass and you get him with and then I want to I don't care if this is in the extended edition of this isn't a theatrical but when you open up with. GANDALF tumbles into the pit and he's dead but then you find out, he's actually been kicking this ball rox ask for the rest of the movie and like the the scene of them falling to the center of the Earth and like. This old man this like extreme skydiving position to catch up to the ball Reagan just start whipping. It's ass like this fighting and sword fighting and it should be ridiculous but it's so fucking cool and that against split for the second movie or May even be the third where there's this wide shot of them reaching the ocean at the middle of the earth and it's just like they're just like like a shooting star following together. Oh. My God that visual I love it so much. And in his fly you fools I think there's also these great moments were airborne can't rip is is like he's waiting for Gandalf to like get back up and he's like dodging arrows and stuff. and. It's all in slow motion and Howard scores going for broke onto. Our shores going for broke on the score man Can we talk about how horrible? HOW ORLANDO? Bloom is like eighteen years old and not a great actor at this point yet That young but yeah, this is his first role and It might be bullying the point this out and it's not it doesn't ruin the movie but whoever thought is a good idea to direct Orlando like okay. Here's the deal you're an Elf and you've hung out els your whole life and You might not have ever experienced death and you should be like confused about the whole concept death like what the Hell's going on. It does not work at all everyone else is like giving these a plus ten additon grief performances and I think there's an idea there have like. Surely L. as aware of the concept of things dying. Yeah. But like he might not have actually felt this kind of grief before like like what is this much but he plays it as if he doesn't understand mechanically what has happened and he's just not good enough to do it and it sucks I would've I. Don't know I I. Don't know how he could have done a better but you didn't do a great job Mr Bloom I. Didn't even realize that's what he was going for. So yeah. So yeah, anyway but there's also the the Jackson said that when he directed fro because there's that famous shot of photo trying to get out, get just get away from the fellowship at this stage and airborne calls him back and he turns around like you with a single tier and Jackson said when you turn around I, want audiences to almost be frightened of your grief like you should look like a man who's seen a concentration camp or some shit and I felt like that's that's you know as as bad as their direction was that was spotted because I felt like all that work. One and other things they do with Sarramon arc is one of the recurring themes of the Lord of the Rings and even the Cima Ralian is like jealousy of something other people have like men are jealous of elves more immortality and they try to take it for themselves. These God created all these angels in I know Tokens hated. Called an allegory but I don't know walks like a duck quacks like a duck swims like a duck the God created all these lesser angels that then aided him in creation and one of those guys was jealous that he couldn't create. So he tried like everything he created in imitation of God turn out to be a mockery like he tried to create manny end up making ORCs he tried to create incident that making trolls. And Saruman here is like got that bug like he's as very powerful Djelic creature but he wants to create things and his idea of what turns out to be perfection as this twisted, you know animal war race that can do nothing but destroy things. Again. It's not lags perfection right? He claims affection and again like I don't think you get the bears hinted the theme but it is there. If you want to discover it, which I think is is cool. What so. What do you have anything that you want to say about like Laurien because Kate Blanchett is amazing She's kind of like I. Don't know what you make out of no drill. That's the. Nothing like she has some extraordinarily cryptic dialog that means absolutely nothing to me where she's like reckoning with something. But I don't know what it is and I assume it's all just foreshadowing I ship that's going to happen later. I really didn't think anything of it and I actually wasn't impressed by most of what happened here like I. I don't know why there's this big love story of. Between you know our win and. Is it is an era Gorn I didn't get any of that like these are all just characters I just matt and I guess they have a history. Okay. But I'm not feeling it in that moment with this exchange of immortality in all that stuff And also I wasn't super impressed with Florian as a location I thought Ribbon Dell was. Riverdale beautiful like that. Whole city just glows literally glows. And lovelorn was Kinda like A. Just muted version immune, blue black light, a black light. You know stone or. Aesthetic. That's Hayek versus the for woods off. You know they're just like the bump country bumpkin else now there's this whole thing for me. Yeah I mean that's the thing like there's tons of stuff like I. I love the temptation to Galadriel where she's like offered this end like that's. Our final tests, like she now thinks she's worthy to go to heaven at this point. But since it's all like context, it's all contexts stuff that I assume means a lot to somebody who's steeped in the Lore. Did. You get because like I think the one thing they did well is wind. She like ponders what it would be like to have the ring and she says instead of dark Lord, Usually Abba Queen and like she's talks a mess but I think she does sell. The terribleness like how like you know glad drills dangerous powerful person by her will alone has she almost single-handedly kept mortar out of her kingdom. and. She has the Ring's power which you probably don't know as well. But I thought that they really that's a it's an interesting effect where they almost like negative they they they somehow dressed her in this like this steel curious like breastplates and like give this kind of like almost underwater and photo negative that turns this beautiful woman into this like dark twisted thing similar to like. GANDALF. Swelling up in in the bag in and I thought like even if you don't did you get that like was that because I just? I saw that I thought that she was being tempted and there was a stark power that could have come to the surface especially with the bring she could be dangerous but like I just at that point I didn't care because I'm like, okay. If the ring Tim's everybody like it's nothing new for you know Bilbo Gandalf everybody's been tempted by this ring. To see that again, didn't do much for me. It's too because of the extended edition, there's a whole it turns out that the Galadriel is our wins grandmother. And there's this great scene where she takes Eric Gordon aside and like soul stone you got what the fuck you do in men like when you, when are you going to stop all this ranging and all the strident and settled down and get a real job and you know provide for my grant like there's a little bit of that like what you're missing about all these interpersonal she feels that. kind of stuff in and I thought that's great scenes. But again, this is a slow section of the movie. Already there's another even better where like born airborne have this like interesting conversation about going to the white city. There's a little bit of that but there's much more extended cut where bore Ramirez just because airborne's part in this story and they cut most of this out is that he? Thinks that men just can't cut it like he doesn't want the lead them because he doesn't believe in himself and he doesn't believe in the strength of men like he all all he can see is the the past failures of his ancestors like every single one of them. As a failure and led the things being worse than better and he's kind of like a, he's the guy that doesn't want to grab the trolley switch and choose between one person dying and five right fuck it up about twenty people die and bore Amir is really they had this great conversation but then he gets frustrated with like. You know you're so you're so quick to trust these elves. We come the river, the ribbon, Dale go to law Florian and it's all like, Oh, you're just you implicitly trust them and there's no problems but you know, yes, there's frailty and men, but there's also strength and honor and you never see that because you. And I thought it's great. It shows how desperate Boreham ear is because he thinks this guy just is all with the elves and they're gonNA throw away this one shot to save the last great city of mankind and. What Trust Mac nations elves and these it seems and it really establishes his character which makes his fall later on his movie and redemption more powerful. But again, this is already very slow seen in the movie. So. I love you know despite is me think he'd be like seeing the Argon off the big statues of eastern Dora and his brother at the at the I think the southern extent of Gondar is really cool like ours thought those were like visually reading these books Dade. Shit my man I can't wait to see this stuff and it looks fucking amazing Just the the scenery paddling these like beautiful leaf, shaped boats down this river. That's you know again, honest act other than the statues. All middle. That's all a New Zealand I guess the waterfall is the one thing that's actually from I think Africa or South America, and they can posited the seen. Okay. The one they sent his body over. Yeah Yeah that that's like one little. That's like the only non new, Zealand scenery in the whole the whole series But yeah I I don't know like. BOROUGHMUIR failing his test versus era. Gore I think it's a very beautiful moving thing where airborne approaches Frodo and you think he's going to do what everyone else does, and then he he doesn't I'm kind of getting low key choked up thinking about it And in Boroughmuir, like I thought like I don't know what do you what do you think of like bore Mir's conference with Frodo did that work without all the background or yeah it did they done enough with bore Mir That since that, he wanted the ring that. He was not actually strong willed enough to resist it. He might be the one character in this entire. This entire movie aside from me bill who wasn't strong willed enough. So. This is a win. Yeah. He had that turn. It made a lot of sense to me. And then the contrast that with arrogant who's just a little bit you know his moral fiber is a little bit stronger than warm air and also bore me horrific reaction what he did. And trying to make up for it. I think is a great story and The battle that happens because of that. Dude that part where right after this airborne's like you gotta get out of your photo and he turns around and just as a massive army of ORCS and he salutes them and just starts taking them all on is so fucking bad ass and just when it's too much for him here comes dimly. And like legos shooting shooting these arrows like it's like a fucking semiautomatic rifle Oh God Greg, Ellis I, don't I don't know like. Some of his later scenes overshadowed because they're too much like I'm not a big Fan of him surfing down staircases on a shield I do Kinda like like the the one thing where he may maybe more bad asses when he single handedly takes down that war elephant in the last movie that this scene like this is legless is fine. The shine he's whip and so much, ass. Like Vet Net battled, I am a sucker for that trope where like A character takes what would should be a fatal shot right and gets back up and fights again takes another shot that should also be fatal gets backup continues fighting it takes so much to bring them down. I'm a huge fan of that gets me going every time. And I don't know who did all the choreography but like they sell it like and these arrows are like fucking dowell rods. Broom handles yeah. They're. Shine my the leader of the work. Yeah. With this big ask seven-foot war. So you know it's like he's acting shoot shop two by fours and you can feel the the sound design is each one hits into like sings to his knees but he always has got everytime he gets backup. There's a little bit less like you know he's desperately fighting these ORCS but every single time he takes an Arrow it's barely deflecting at the last time barely able to finish this guy like there's this one scene where he almost leads gravity drive the killing stroke into ORC. He doesn't have anything left in the tank and just as this is about the Cudi. Todd. This guy arrogance says, no, fuck you. and has another one of these like felt like there's very few movie fights. I actually think that people are trying to kill each other like when I see like Pierce Bronson and that one foppish blond guy fighting and one of the lesser bonds it's like these guys are just like Oh. Yeah. You move your like this all move my wrist like that and Chink Changing Errol Flynn stuff everyone of these. Chops that the Eric is taken at the Aragon looks like it's going to decapitate dismember him. Airborne's given as good as he got. He gets It's like I love that scene where he pins his head to the to the truth is the in my hair born by the desperation fuck and Get out of this my head's gone like, did you know that like Vigo Mortenson actually batted sort that that dagger out of the air the sword I take like Jackson's like. Well, we might have a potluck. Let's give it a try and he doesn't. Think the guy who had never held a sword before. is now batting swords daggers out of the air with it hey. If you want a good time look into Vigo Mortenson personal history this guy is kind of like you know what like Daniel? day-lewis did the kind of like work himself up the like last Mohicans I think that's how Vigo does lives out in the woods just yeah. Plan lutes and balancing one footed. On, rocks in the middle of streams while like rabbits and bluebirds landing on 'em he seems like he's kind of half himself He famously adopted his horse in this movie and became an accomplished horseman since then he's a really cool dude like every interview I've ever read this guy. He's like a fucking sage. It's amazing. Look like look up some interviews of him But Yeah I guess I'm. Waiting this movie works for me like this this like I said the book into this thing are. Really really strong. And in you needed it like coming out of this movie, I would have been really disappointed if it just kind of ended on. A middling to flat note You needed to really punch it up because you're going into the next portion of this movie. You've gotta be excited about it. So an have a little word, they have a little bit of help because even though this act one of the three acts play token himself writing these new knows he needs like a little bit of climax. Now it's funny in book two and three they kind of fucked that up because they rearranged things. But every one of the books there's a nice little climax and this definitely delivers I love that shot where bore Amir is like blowing the horn and keeping the hobbits behind them and they establish him and then they pulled back and you see this like. Waterfall sort of swarm toward them in this valley and I guess they used one of those like cameras on like a two wire setup they use like football games. So it can kind of just like hover before they had drones, they're doing a drone shot of this. That's just. Amazing I'm thinking about like every time they reset that a hundred different dudes has to go back and find their place and and like did the swarm over this hill again Borgata, gotta blow. It's it's it's pretty crazy Also, there's a great little like a new hope stormtrooper bangs his head shot when airborne is starting to have this this personal moment bore Amir there's an old that's dead on the ground that lifts his head up because he he thinks it's like inbetween takes and then I realize he's supposed to be dead and laid back down. It's funny to look for once. You see it. You'll. You'll see it in every single time through. But then they. Go ahead, I was GONNA say the end on a pretty emotionally resonant known as well like. That's the thing they haven't haven't succeeded here. Right? There's an in fact they think they've essentially failed. The they expect that I was going to his doom. He's not going to make it and they can no longer support him which think is the real blow they failed as as a group. The Fellowship has failed the fellowships broken. Yeah but they do what they can hand and they go off to save their friends and I think the dividing them up at this point is is great especially when you have two of the perceived weakest characters going off on their own and a couple of the strongest three of the strongest going off on their own to save their friends I hang. It's a really beautiful ending to this film and emotionally resonant ending. Oh, it's certainly especially since this kicks like this whole movie Era Gordon has been refusing the call. You know like the the Joseph Cambell Ian Call to be a hero, and here he so moved by Board Mir sacrifice that he on death pledge like I. Don't Know What Strength Guy here but tell you what buddy if I, if I got it in, I'm not GonNa let our people fall and Then there's the scene like I I don't think. A lot of people notice this but airborne actually takes bore Amir's racers that have the white the symbol of the white city on them and ties him to his own personal gauntlets like as if he is now finally taking up the mantle of the king that's going to eventually return and yeah, his his lays line reading where he's like, you know we will not abandon our friends to torment and death. Let's let's hunt some ORC, and you know like. His natural leadership getting this Elfin Dorf Kinda, low key hated each other's whole movie there now, fucking Hell Yeah let's go hunt some ORC and you know Sean Sean. Astin Austin and Elijah Woods has a beautiful scene. FRODO doesn't trust nobody yet but SAM does won't like look I'm either going to follow you or die and photo can't let it happen I it's. You know there's a lot said about this masculine you know friendship and relationship in the love that these two men Hafer each other but I still think it's Elijah Woods giant blue expressive is yeah. Tear your heart out every single time. And I guess Something else I thought was amazing is actually shot a whole battle scene where the ORCS peel off and force Frodo into the water and like he's desperately fighting them off and getting through the boat and Peter Jackson's looking at the dailies like what are we doing? This isn't Frodo versus the ORCs this is frodo versus his inner nature and the ring, and it can only be about that and they changed it to just to him his shot with the words of Gandalf going through his head that like we don't get to choose all, we get to choose what we're doing next and Mike. The director's commentary track was like. They had twenty different paths that could adopt gone down that each one would have weakened the movie and made it lesser and they somehow through some instinct always took the right path or with rare exception. Yeah And Yeah like the final shot of Frodo and Sam looking at that like you know like the last of the good land is behind them. It's nothing but hell lying ahead is so iconic and so amazing beautiful and they call a corrected at all the hell and they've added a bunch of special weather effects but it's it's great. It's amazing. So. I have one question So the the Eric Hi were commanded to. bring bring them Frodo right. Bring Bring Sarma Frodo. Kill. The others they don't kill the others they take pippen and Mary. With them alive, very much alive. Is that because they don't know which Hobbit has the ring. There's xactly right. Okay. Orders to grab the Hook, grab the habits and return them unspoiled to Siro Ma who can then deliver them the figure out who's got the one take it the door. Also, these guys are personally loyal to Sarah on Saruman. and. So technically, they should probably just take it straight the Mawr but he wants that boon to cement. Sr on shore maybe maybe actually take the ring for himself. Yeah and and rule middle earth who I don't know the I don't know the sorrow Mon- actually thinks he's evil at this point. Who might think that like what he needs to like you know like all these elves and men are going to fuck shit up these guys were the the these these angelic kind of wizard figures sent the Guide and mentor Middle Earth through all different stripes and I think he thinks this is his ultimate mission like this is what he's supposed to be doing but I was like it there any of that in the fight scene between him and Gandalf I will admit during that fighting I was looking at was gandalf spinning on his nose or whatever. And how silly that looked. I was doing the dialogue if there was some about it. Now, I mean like there's a lot in the lead-up where he's like, you know we should I've seen everything I've seen there's no way to beat the sky. We need to join forces with them, and that's when he fell me and my friend win of the Blah Blah Blah turned to madness. But yeah, I I then again I I don't know how much of that is actually in the book like Saruman has is he actually evil because you know? He's making these. ORCS. They look pretty evil but you know what does that even mean you know like token did knows Kinda Gauche to just nakedly code evil people to ugly dark and? this stuff like that. But. I thought was also like there's like this long ask credit sequence and Peter Jackson talks do most of it and he talks about his personal feelings because if you're mad at me for saying that you like that I thought the theatrical versions are better films he agrees he says. I don't consider this director's cut. The director's cut implies that the studio took something away and made it lesser and the director's cut restores to the full glory. This is literally an extended addition. It's got more stuff in it stuff that I think some of it would have worked well in the movie. Some of it that I think is really great and Great. Material but destroys the pacing of the film but this isn't like my favorite version of the film. This is just an extended version for hardcore fans and I think it plays like that like I if you like like I said, I think it'd be very curious to see what you would think about a four hour cut this movie because that's about what it is. When they added all the stuff back into The yeah. For casual fans like really like this but. You know like why people like you don't like fantasy, but they like this I don't know that that would if you if you I'm not a big fan of nerds making their casual friends, watch the extent of diversions or be like. Well, if you don't watch extent versions, you're not watching it at all because. If you can't get enough you're right. But some people like this is just enough you know and so. Much just tolerable like I enjoy it because it's it moves quick and because there are moments of levity and because there is exciting action and and some heartfelt emotional moments, I don't love it because I love the Lore, the Laura Shit that I could care less about in this movie. So yeah, it's it's exceeds despite its source material and a lot of ways for me. I don't know. Like I said that I think it destroys the pacing but I love the the nine getting older gifts from Galadriel as because in the movie all you get is you know the stuff that you must know because it becomes important a plot like you know for getting that vial of starlight. Right, that's foreshadowing future movie right exactly. But then they all get individual gifts and I think some of that stuff is cool I. Think it's I love legless infamous limp spread commercial. where he liked almost directly turns to the cameras. Olympus. Bread one bite can keep a grown man fed for days. You know. There's yeah there's magic elven bread that they 'cause like. tolkien tries to answer a lot of people's questions like how the hell are these guys going to survive? Well, they got special magic bread and I was absolutely thinking like man that horse must be carrying a lot of supplies. But yeah, there's a lot of like interesting kind of funny things about that. Oh. That's other thing the one technical detail I forgot to mention Is Glad drill in is one of the few elves that remembers the time still left to middle earth. The remembers a time when they had these magic trees that per before the moon and the sun was created they they let the world and they talk about that light being reflected ancient lights still reflecting out of her eyes and Peter Jackson play Amodu that The. The usually like characters with they call it a pupil light or an eye light that gives you that little like anime, gleam in your eye with her he took like a ball of Christmas lights and use that for it. So when you look really close, it looks like she's got like a star Constellation. Reflected, I ever since I noticed there ever since I saw that in the behind the scenes I love seeing those notes and there's tons. There's like if you watch special features every fucking thirty seconds, you'll see a love letter tolkien in the background that you would never pick out unless you're like an Uber Fan or the person who worked on it and yeah if you are fan of these films, I highly recommend the special features on the BLU rays and DVD's because first of all year film. School how much that cost you know second is just it's just so much detail packed and it will destroy some of the magic because you also can't help but notice some of the effects and stuff that they still long gloves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and how they do some of that stuff is really cool and man I wish they would I wish every couple of years they get that exhibit out and have a tour again I think it would make a lot of money 'cause like. Part of the exhibit was they had the mockup of like that cart that year mckellen and Elijah Wood Road on and you could pose with a friend of yours and they do the exact same camera angle. So it looks like you're massive and they're a Hobbit They give you like a souvenir photo of it and like this, seeing how that physically works de is so cool and you get it you can see it on the the you know because they show like here's the camera angle and the pan over, and you can kind of see the fact lose but like being there and actually doing that shit is super cool. Okay. Before we go Dr John had a lightning round questions. He wanted to ask US number one, which film in the trilogy is your favorite. It's been. It's been almost twenty years man. I. This one because it's the one I've seen most recently like. I legitimately couldn't tell you. There's a spider in one of them the Mount Dune scenes are cool like I can't tell you most of what happens in the next two. So this one currently. I mean there's amazing parts in all of them but it's hard to beat returning the king. It's hard to beat the exclamation point at the end of this You know you could quibble with the seventeen different endings that it has, but there's amazing action like the massive battles and all their glory All of everyone's are coming to an end All that stuff is I don't know it just it just really works personal all the different heroism coming together I e Oh the the last charge of the rare hero him The Odin speech before that like there's a bunch of a plus it's too bad. 'cause Eric Gordon speech about the ICU new the very feared would snatched a heart of Mu Away is actually be tear compared to fuck and theologians crazy ride now Athen Veru and. Like should disclaiming and spears swords. All Dude Spears as he rides on the combat like it's hard to beat that and it's too bad airborne had to follow that because technically his speech, it'd be even better. But, yeah, I like returned the king is my. The. With the minister stuff in it I like the the white city. Yeah. Yeah in the spider and. US really cool. I remember being super impressed by the scale that thing. Yeah and I dislike man the eagles always get me like when they like when the everything looks lost and like the the ring rates come in with fell beasts and it's like Oh these guys are going ripped apart and the eagles come out of nowhere star whipping their ass. It's good stuff. Good stuff. Lord of the Rings Versus Game of Thrones Books and visual. Medium. Midst. It's it's it's tough. I like game of thrones gets marked with an incomplete grade like I can't even give an F. It's incomplete. It's I'm disappointed. This had so much potential I'm writing and read in the margins I think it could have dethroned Lord of the Rings because Lord, of the rings as it's, it's very high fantasy. It's very not relatable where the intricate plotting and Mac nations and stuff a game of thrones The you know it's not just black and white good and evil it could have been better but it certainly did not. You know did. Not, get their. You know if you want to debate game of thrones seasons one through six verses Lord of the Rings. Fellowship and to it's still tough. But you know me go pick game of thrones every time in that scenario. But yes, I mean ending is such a sour note on game of thrones that I don't even know if I could choose it. Even though I do remember the last two movies of Lord of the Rings is still feel like It doesn't deserve it. Now Tokens got returning to King and game get this bitch Outta here you know like it's not. It's not even the same. Is, next question number three theories on why Peter? Jackson never quite made it back to this level of filmmaking. mean he's still a young man right like I. Mean he's still a man sure he can. Still he still exists. I think the Hobbit. was something he got forced into for good intentions in is just you know it's like the one thing where the studio just interfered way too much in. and maybe he was I I don't know like I I. got. It. In me to watch the bonus features of the Hobbit So but I, I understand that there's a whole lot of like first of all, there was the studio like really beat up New Zealand's film community to make this on a bare bones budget whereas before it was kind of a bonanza that launched it, and there is a lot of people that they wouldn't pay and they're like Peter Jackson put a. Premium. On getting these nine guys together and have a hang out and be friends. So that would translate in everyone gets a little piece. So there's no jealousy and everyone feels like this this kinship and bond and they didn't do that. There's a lot of composite actors together and you know people not you know there's there's a lot of key shortcuts and corner-cutting that effected everyone's kind of like ownership of it so. That said you know Peter Jackson still has fifteen twenty plus years ahead of him. It wouldn't surprise me if he did something. Cool the. Whole, crazy. Not Any yeah. I I kind of think of Peter Jackson as A. Independent like amateur style filmmaker because he has all the stuff that I associate with Peter Jackson before this is all. Much, smaller budgets much more like avant garde just like let's jam a camera in here and let's go at these. Crazy. rubber-faced zombies with lawnmower. Kinda thing like. It has this Gonzo sort of feel to it that. Is present in this film in places, but you could definitely see the classic Peter Jackson places for sure in a couple of spots but for the most part like the whole. Movie, is like this mainstream big-budget feel to it and. So what I think like Oh Peter Jackson. Would go on after this to do something just as big or epic or mainstream that kind of doesn't make sense to me It might be the case where he doesn't want to do that stuff. He just wants to have like that control the you get with sort of independent style filmmaking. And he can't find that in outside of like this crazy like we talked about crazy this project is leaving happened right? The give this guy a bunch of money and cradle he's crazy processes and stuff that's never been done. If he can't find that scenario again maybe he doesn't WanNa do it. He's taking a shot like King Kong Three Hour Kim Jong Film, that was Kinda gone zone and it didn't crater. It's but it's kind of foreshadow the habit of like Oh there's there's a lot of excess in this movie. Mortal engines was garbage. He didn't direct. He produced an he I guess he picked the director and he wrote it. But that movie is is bad I didn't even bother seeing because the concept looks so stupid. Now. He he ma I mean like I said, he might He might be a George Lucas where he did his best work and when young man with a lot of vigor and a lot of big ideas and also I, I haven't gone back and seen some of his smaller serious studio, not studio but independent films like a heavenly creatures is that the one everyone talks about haven't seen Yes, one, it's got Not Cate Blanchett the woman, the drama wacky French girls. Kate winslet, Kate winslet. That's the ones got Kate winslet about these serial killer murders from New Zealand or Australia that everyone is that everyone thinks holds that movie in high esteem. I'd like to see that because I think he could definitely go back to doing that I don't know bigger stuff like especially since it feels like he has a little bit it's gotta be bigger and better and more epic than it can. But man, you can't. When you hit Lord of the Rings, there's nowhere to go but down, it's like going to North Pole and saying I gotTA go north earlier. You can't yet can't man. You can go as North can't go north. So I I don't know but again, his career is not over but I do think that also the hobbit again everything I've read behind the scenes like that kind of broke his back as far as dealing with the Hollywood system and fighting with them and the like the D. crushing amount of work and stress it just maybe needs to go back and do some heavenly creatures type stuff. Yeah. I, know I know a whole bunch about like Y-, through like Adam savage and tested in that whole crew spends a lot of time like. You know at Weta or with Peter Jackson and they're all friends and stuff and I get the impression that he is very much. A Guy who loves the craft of it like yeah. He wants to get in there and do like really crazy innovative things. He enjoys like modern making kind of mentality. Y- how compatible is that big budget film making? I can't imagine it's. It's the same experience. Yeah because I don't think that like I don't know how many bigger teachers they made for the series I. Don't think it's nearly as many as they did for this. Is a lot of CGI composite ing even just a stunt works and stuff and I can imagine not everything's so much. Sure. This weird hybrid thing where like a shocking amount of it's real. Just a little bit of movie magic to make everything work I don't know if that's true that I imagine just the modern Hollywood blockbuster they were studios are going to pay for that fucking do it and do it digitally. Now, we don't like it. We can just Redo it. You know I thought that that might I. can see kind of being broken hearted about that if you're a real craftsman. Finally. Dr John Watson Oh. What are you looking forward to with the Amazon? Series. Great Question. I was looking forward to this story being drawn out into you know thirty plus hours whatever telling telling the story with more. You know the context that I feel I missing here the character development I feel a missing here. Apparently it's not going to be this Third Age Lord of the Rings Story. It's GonNa be something else. So. I'm a little bummed out that now. Yeah I. Think if I understand the new project at its climax will be the prologue of this movie like you know everything will build up to the the first war of the ring and you'll have all this. You Know Isale door and his dad and brother marshalling the human forces and Ron writing fourth and they'll began off there and Galadriel and I mean I don't know. Do the fall, a new minore and. All that kind of stuff, but it's not going to be this and. That's why it's like I. Mean I definitely I'm not as excited for. This is some other things because I just don't know what they'll make of it. It's going to be shot in middle. Earth. Aka New Zealand The special effects people in the craftsman will be the same So you got that going for us but like everything is like the casting of this film I love these books and read the many many times. In fact, I read them all before the movie came out right right before I got a new editions of them and. I had built up mental images through looking at all these picture books and artwork of like what all these things looked like and they just knocked it out of the park. They got the perfect fro, the perfect Gandalf, the perfect airborne seemingly by accident some of these cases because they kind of lucked backed in like Oh, Shit does airborne sucks. Can we get you know I I liked what Mortenson guy did on G. I. Jane He seems like he could be somebody's rough and tough bring him in there and he ends up being half Elf I it's it's about like the cast and the story and all that similar million and appendix stuff from Lord of the rings is that going to work because that's not adapting something great. It's reading an encyclopedia wikipedia article about something, and then you know like like reading an encyclopedia article about World War One. And, now, make an entertaining story about it. Yeah. Crafted that. Yeah or like you know what we saw the double ds did like you know adapting great works versus working with a few bullet points as tricky they got a big budget and they got some. Decent. talented. Attached to like, will it be the Lord of I can't imagine I can't imagine it will be this generational once in a lifetime kind of thing like the way Lord of the Rings. Ended up being I really I don't don't but I am look. Yeah I'm looking forward to seeing being back in this world because I I enjoyed the being back in middle. That's why sat through all the fucking hobbit movies because I love this world so much and when it works, it really works. So. Any other last thoughts should we get out of here Jim now let's get out of here turn. Dr John Thank you very much for forcing us to watch this long. Asked me I watched four hours actually. I watched a thousand hours of middle Earth Shit. Over the last twenty years and spent hundreds more reading by forty-three years on earth to prepare for this podcast, which is why I only had to watch three hours. So. Thank you for that. And Yeah I think this might be their longest podcast wasn't like a marathon you know staff the charity thing. So thank you for commissioning it if commissioning podcast sounds like a good idea to you go to support that ball move dot com click on the commissioner podcast link and it will have all the details on how much it costs and the process and pull the trigger Jim and I'll be in touch to get your notes and all that kind of stuff Yeah. That's how you do that and again thank you very much. Dr John for commissioning this at a lot of fun recording this and my buddy and hope you enjoy it Obama and enjoys it. That will be it for this week's ball new pulp. My God we might have to make this a to installment thing three, three, party Al it's expanded. Let's talk another hour we got three our. Fellowship of the POD, and then we'll have the to podcasters and then it'll be returned to the bullshit. But? Yeah. Well, Hilbert enjoys it and we'll see back. Next time on pulp until then I'm Erin and Jim. See

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