09 - Clemency
From Kirkhill media a welcome to Hollywood unscripted. I'm your host Scott All Malibu Film Society. Today we're talking about clemency. The new movie which deals with the death penalty moldy in a way that I don't think any film has ever done before. We're going to be talking a little bit later with the writer and the director but right now we're GONNA be talking with the Star of the film Alfre woodard welcome. Thank thank you was one of the cast of the film great cast. I mean it really is and so many other roles everybody plays such a key role role in fleshing out the story which is about the emotional toll that putting people to death takes on the people who have to do that in your case it's a hundred and twenty acting credits. You've played everything from a slave to the president of the United States. You have one thousand nine hundred eighty four Oscar nomination for Cross Creek. You have more emmy awards than any other African American actors and that doesn't count your work on stage. What lead you to choose roles these days? Yeah is not these days. I've always chosen what I wanted to sign onto the same all the way through it is when the script when the writer at this time of my writer. Filmmaker has to be on the page from me and it has to be. I don't go to work just to go to work with a person or to be associated with another actor especially asking for money because you see a lot of Indian d work but it is the story and I especially go to work when it's something that I don't know. Oh how do I like to have to figure out how to do how to bring the thing off and especially when it is a point of view that we never see. And if I I think I can think of something that somebody else might not think of in that portrayal because I love to see a good portrayal but I feel like sometimes. It doesn't need me so so all of those things would this Brandon Cornelius. Our producer talked me about knowing Tchoukou who you will meet who she was. I said yes. Let's take this meeting. She said we. We want you to play a prison warden. Well that immediately prick up your ears. Because I didn't know there were prison warns and thought about it. I've always been on the other side with the candles outside ride the prison or signing onto petitions to help people get a stay of execution so there was all learning to do. I knew nothing about it. You could take a script Even Act it well but I'm not that kind of person I'm not that kind of actor Damore. I have to learn the more interested. I am one of the great pluses about being an actor. You're required to keep learning so it's great to be seventy eight years owning said okay. I have to find out how the Calculus teacher feature what that means. I gotTA Learn Calculus. I have to figure out all of those things and so she took me on a tour of Ohio prisons to know you did. We went went to medium security women's maximum and medium men. I met three wardens a deputy warden. I met the director of corrections and not just meet have meals with these. People sat in on their meetings with the major and the whole staff went to the row. Where the condemned men are and had the privilege village of spending time with to condemn men? And I say privileged because if you know you have a certain amount of time to talk to two women from mm-hmm quote Unquote Hollywood. That's a privilege. They agreed to talk all of them. All of these people because of Chinoy is history there in her commitment her eight year commitment of changing her life to go there and work on clemency cases and to teach women screenwriting and filmmaking in the prisons there so that's why we had entree. I have never gone further far from my life. I did going there and I have spent time in informal all settlements in the third world and the camera refugee camp nowhere was as far from my life as going into those prisons. From from that. Point of view the incarcerate horse point of view when you look at taking on a role like this. Do you ever get scared. Now I do. You mean scared scared of where that performance is going to take you now. That's emotionally emotion. My business that's what you train for. Your body is an instrument your emotions injure psyche everything about you. We play our instrument. That's what we do when we train and I won't go into all the things but people look through door and see actors working in preparing in training like what the Hell is going on. Why are they doing that? You use all of that. So you're instrument has to be as Honored Caring For oiled and in tune soon as a strategy and you know how to play that Ben Those notes and you've got Doodo Mao there and you want to be able to bring everything that he needs in sustaining note. Saying put me in coach does what you want. Because that's the place that you are most comfortable playing complex music. One of the interesting things in this movie was how the emotional toll was affecting acting your marriage to the character played by Wendell Pierce if he can talk to us about that. Wendell was every actor and this was the big draw every character. Every human being that stood up it had to be with the person that first of all came with a depth of understanding about human beings is as well as their ability to not be afraid of sustaining moments. Not Be afraid of the quiet. The silence the allowed silence that Chinoy intended to put into the film and window. He brought in a few scenes so much much history about the plight of high school teachers and his character Jonathan. He's teaching the invisible man to his class. We see him really at a crossroads. Rosie wants to come to that crossroads and make that Cross with him but she is so committed to what she is doing and it is the different time line than they agreed us so we see that marital struggles at we. All if you're married and you're not a coward you stay in there and you fight you figure it out but one of the things that we know. Oh is that the people that work the world they have a high as high a PTSD rate as people that we send in to multiple deployments. If people are married a lot of money third marriage it is a wrecker of lives so we needed to go and see able to look in on what it does in the ED person's personal life as well the reason maybe why it resonated so much with me as viewers that it seemed obvious that your character had to have so much emotional all distance. This is award and who has to wall herself off her own feelings. It seems like and then that results in not being able to be in the marriage is much tonight. We'll have a different way of saying probably the same thing but I can't help it speak to you out of my understanding of Bernardine and it is not so much that you you wall yourself off from your emotions but one of the things that throws a relationship off when you can't talk about things so sharing bringing honesty but some people are in the types of professions that they can't talk about it. How do you talk about something that you can't quite put your finger being Garon? Wrap your mind around. What if it's so devastating? If you said it out loud you'd come apart. How would that love one? receive it when you talk about having to ask Anthony what he wants for his last meal and he didn't say anything. That might be what I want to bitch about. But that person here is like my God bringing up the warrior analogy. You can't talk about what it was like in Afghanistan. You can't talk about a decision to make an village when you see a kid coming torch you and you don't know what to do. That's what throws the marriage off is. You can't share. That people tend to compartmentalize the other thing is. I don't think she walls off her promotions. There are people unlike me and my fellow artists whether they're singing painting. Whatever that's what we do is we let emotion flow? It comes out not in that. We are the emotional muscle for society because everybody doesn't get to act out like us. You might be an accountant. You can't just suddenly laugh the handler get up and spin around and sing a little diddy and sit back down at your desk so we do all that. That's why you guys come to us to let us tell you stories so then you can experience. It's but all were giving. You is the place to observe to have human emotions but it's your emotions that we're bringing to the song to the screen but people like Bernardine in others like the women. I met the warden's their emotional but they control their emotion there. Compassion comes out instead of stroking the condemned. Insane I'm sorry you're condemned. Who is that going to help their compassion is? I'm GonNa keep order right now. I'm he everything. Calm now I I will see you all the way through this with dignity and every one of them I met and the man who choreographed our execution scenes. He's put more people through the process than any person person in the world because he worked in four states that have been active putting people to death. He at a certain point became a fervent campaigner against the penalty. But they say they never put anybody through the process that didn't thank them right before the final action and so that is compassion. They are not the state date. They are not the tax payer. They're doing our work and so until they change the law. The person you would like to be in charge of view you would hope it is a war that has come from mental health life Bernardine that has come from the mental health field or from social work in the prisons that I visited in Ohio. Now everybody's different just like every journalist is different but a lot of times. We've seen onscreen historically kind of these ogres. These people that can you imagine. We're pulling the wings off. Live birds when they were young but the reality is different yes. The culture inside a lot of prisons is brutal is awful. It is these. Were you become a criminal if you weren't before but this is a story about a particular prison in particular staff and we wanted to first of all. I'll bring forward the missing element of before you decide whether you're pro or con definitely. We've debated for decades and thank God. It's tipped over. The majority of Americans are against the penalty for any number of reasons. But it's just in atmosphere right now where let's put in a very vital thing that has been missing. What does it do to those people? It's a very intimate relationship the warden to the condemned and also the major the three guards that might I be there with that condemned person like we got a big role here in California and all this could speak to you about that but there were nine. Maybe ten people on the role and and Ohio and the men's maximum. The one woman on death row in Ohio was house at the women's prison a medium security prison she lived in a room above a garage is on the prison grounds by herself. But that's the person that you see every day. That's your coworker. This usually ten fifteen twenty years news before you've exhausted. All your appeals. So that's the person you see every day and it's like turning suddenly one day and go. Okay Jim. We're going to have to take you out. God that takes an emotional toll. 'cause that's somebody you just met. You know that person has a human being because you have given them respect all this time they have become. They're calm down better south and whatever being drove them into a frenzy and we are finding sometimes. They didn't do it at all. So they're living with the injustice of knowing that not only will they be put to death but their name they will never again regain their reputation and and the family inheritance that you talk about the relationship that develops between the incarcerator incarcerate head. That really came through. I think can you say with all this talk to us about that if you will. I'll just went to San Quentin and he met with people there. He did rework with Chinoy. I know he told me he. Red Troy Davis's book so he came already fully loaded with everything he needed to do to settle into being being Anthony Woods. I came back from Ohio. We didn't shoot for a month. I was a witness there and when you witness is not that look you inhale. You absorb your internalize well. No don't internalize because that gets in your head. This is all sensory story and so I just know for like the month after I was spontaneously burst into tears at the farmer's market and I have a joyful life and that just weeping uncontrollably for about a minute or two and I wasn't thinking anything it wasn't like Oh whatever said and it's not that and I'm not a method actor my private the joy and pain is the only thing that I have that I own and then I realized what it was. I was weeping other people's tears. I was coming undone because they couldn't whether they you were incarcerated. Or the incarcerate Hor who to call. It's the currency of it. So by the time all this that I and Richard Michael O'Neill Danielle and all of us. By the time we got to camera and you know the plot you sit to actors together. Who not only? I'm not afraid with that's the language we speak. Is that complete. Trust in the give-and-take you've got your relationship right there and you can sit in it all day. You don't have. I have to say cut to Bernardine. So Africa's not waiting for cut 'cause average not present burning nervous stop in her life and not be burning and neither does anthony. There's no pain there. There's just this stain note. Until do mail drops his baton. You do touch on was one of my original questions which is possibly big scared of a role because it does affect you. When you're at the farmer's market you burst into tears how can this not stay with you as a human and being when you're performing these roles but that's not scary bursting into tears burst into tears? I will see a beautiful baby. I will see you touch. Your lover then agrees me to tears. Tears cleansing tears an affirmation if when you got ready to work and you thought of devastating things from your life to bring up emotion in yourself then you probably are doing damage yourself. I mean you go there. It's just like if you've got a scene where they're terrible and they're harder to do than weeping is where you have to laugh laugh constantly. Oh my God trying to keep that stuff fresh but you used breath you use the breath to get emotions. You don't recall our I don't we gets it in here. All of us and I could get squat with our legs open on the ground and we can start breathing together and they would come up a lot of tears. Sometimes sometimes it goes into hysterical laughter all of that so one of the keys. Is You use your breath. What's your takeaway from this project? It's yet another time time. One time was when I met Anita Hill after all of the awfulness that the Senate put her through during that. Confirmation of Clarence Thomas. I met her and I wanted to meet her because we grew up an hour apart drinking the same water the same time period and she was a conservative and I I was weighed left of a liberal. I just wanted to meet her. I like having those conversations where it gets a revelation. I want to be able to see the other. Person's point of view you refining our own positions by hearing each other. That happened to me because as I said earlier I couldn't imagine the point of view of a warden it just because I had never been exposed to it. I know why I could never be a warden. All chaos would break loose. I would let people go to their mother's funeral. At let their people we'll come in and visit them and let people wear whatever they wanted to. And then everybody's hurt damaged and it messes up everything. So I have a respect for and I came to clock compassion. Indiscipline Alfre woodard. Thank you so much for joining us. Hollywood unscrupulous when we come back. We're going to be talking with the writer director of clemency joy to stay tuned Hi this is Christine Jennifer when last we were just talking about how the holidays are over. And we're a little uh-huh but you know what I think we can keep the holidays going. How by buying gifts for ourselves vice reserve dot com and use the code podcast? VIP AP get fifteen percent off everything in the store. So it's like vice is still giving US Christmas president. That's amazing podcast. VIP Vice Reserved Com fifteen percent off. Everything what are we waiting for Scott. Let's go visit dot COM Welcome back to Hollywood unscripted joining us. Now is the writer and director of clemency. Chinoy Taku Wow. You have had what has to be the most remarkable marketable journey of any filmmaker. I've ever met in bringing this film to the screen. Just take us from that process when you were among the hundreds of thousands. You're protesting the imminent execution of Troy Davis. And what took you to this of living in Philadelphia at the time when people were protesting against Troyes execution. And I I remember coming across the petition and that piqued my interest in. I was really galvanized. An impacted by seen so many people around the world advocate advocate for him including a handful of retired wardens and directors of corrections and so the morning after he was executed. I was really obsessed with the question. What must it be like for your livelihood to be tied to the taking of human life and I knew that I needed to tell the story of clemency? Like a new is going to be called clemency. I knew it was going to be from the perspective of awarded but it wasn't until until two thousand thirteen when I was living in New York City that I decided you know what I'm going to write this. Now I'm ready to research ready to write and I spent almost a year. You're doing secondary research interviewing several of the wardens who had protested against Troyes execution and talking with many more people reading a lot of books and I realized I I need to move to a death penalty state. I need to do the work in advocating for the very community. I'm representing on screen. So I decided that I'm going to move to. Oh Hi oh it was great timing because I also was able to secure a teaching position that paid the bills. I volunteered on about fourteen clemency cases and that led me to creating film program program in a women's prison where I taught incarcerated women to make their own short films. And so all of that informed the writing and revising of clemency. We're talking about uprooting your life moving to a different state eight taking a job to sustain you through this whole process. This is serious it is but it needed to be done. I wanted to tell the story with as much integrity and authenticity anticipate as possible because when I decided to write it I knew nothing about a prison. I never been in prison. I didn't know the process of capital punishment. The first thing I googled was what does award in do you know. Yeah so I was really starting from scratch so it was really important to me that I get this right. What surprised you when you started digging into this for real how incredibly difficult? It is to get that someone out of prison once. They've been convicted. There have been other movies that have obviously dealt with this issue of putting condemned prisoners to death but what year film does is it. I've never seen before is dealing with the emotional toll that it takes on the people involved. Yeah absolutely I've never seen that perspective before it all and I thought that it's such a human one of navigating and interrogating the system of capital punishment by doing so through the eyes of a perpetrator of the system. Now you were supporting yourself at this time him. By teaching filmmaking writes humorously talk to us about how that migrated into teaching it to inmates. I've been a film professor for over ten years and so I started teaching when I was in graduate. School and teaching is the single. Most transformative thing I've ever done in my life and I will always consider myself to be an educator's caters well in some capacity but my teaching has largely been confined to the privilege walls of college classroom and I have helped hundreds of students over the course of ten years. Tell their own story so when I was volunteering my I come and see case I would go to the prison in which the defendant was incarcerated and I would just look around at all of the many women who stories would never relief prison walls and I just had the idea to just bring the curriculum that I've spent many years designing kind of quote unquote perfecting into this space. Because what I do. As an educator has helped people tell their own stories and that shouldn't just be limited to WHO can pay tuition. Obviously some of the women have graduated and have been released from All of them have and it was interesting. Because the first clemency case I volunteered for is for a woman named Tara Patterson and she received clemency around the same time. We've got Greenland for the film. So delake all the universe working when Bronwyn the producer contacted you and said I think we've got alfre on the hook here. Talk to us about that moment. Okay okay so two. Years before pre production Brahmin are amazing producer. And I were having a conversation about who the hell is GonNa Bernardine because we knew that not a a lot of people would be able to execute this no pun intended. But we'll be able to carry this kind of role because so much is in the. Is there such a subtle precise performance. Then then Brahmin said what the hell free water and both of US had goosebumps at the world made sense and I was like yeah so then. Bronwyn worked her producer magic and got the script in Alfred hands in her reps hands and Alfred immediately read it and then she called me and she asked about my direct royal vision and it was great is that she called me when I I just finished teaching and I had one of my students and men tease with me and I totally got cool points there but I was speaking out on. It was great for my student to see that moment. Alfred I talked for I think for like almost an hour and she says she didn't so you're having a normal phone call Talbot inside your head inside my head so it's like two things. It's like one reminding myself of my worth because at first I was like. Oh my God this is the out free word so I was feeling a little insecure but then I was like wait a minute. I know what I'm dipping hidden. I know what I'm talking about. So it was like this constant dialogue on my head and we were focusing. Hang on the art of it and the craft of it and once we got into our rhythm of the conversation and once she kind of shared with me why she was connected elected to the material then we got comfortable with each other for shooting the film. You opted to go with Eric. Bronco Talk to us about that decision. Well Eric Bronco is is an extraordinary cinematographer who I had worked with years. Prior on a short film wrote indirect. Call it a long walk and that was the first time we worked together and he did such a stunning job and when we raft. That's when I told him. Hey I'm writing. The new project called clemency. I'd love to work with you guys because I knew that a long walk was kind of testing ground for me like okay. I know he's really talented. Wanted to we get along. And do we understand each other creatively and personally and we had a fantastic time on that set and sent him the first draft like five years ago or something like that and he's he's been part of every derivative of the script and he was somebody who understood the intentions behind the material in the I think he lights dark skinned incredibly well incredibly well and not everybody can and so that was also another reason why I was really excited to work with him again. And then you had bill howson editing. Talk to us about that whole process because because so much of this film is reactions. Yes so filth and I had a ball editing. This film so I was always incredibly ably clear about the pacing of the film and I am not precious about anything at all and I know that surprise Phyllis at first I would cut a third the film if it needed to be cut and so our first assembly was three hours long. The first day of editing I came in with like notes of all the many things we can there's GonNa data and she was shot and so it went smoothly and quickly. And there's only one moment where Phyllis and I had to like. Duke it out. It was the three and a half a former close up and that was one of those moments whereas like no this is going to be in so you just take your time. You need to get on board. And she took her time and and then finally after. I don't know maybe a couple of weeks. He looked at and he said. All right. You right in this cast beyond Al Free. You have all this this hodge as the condemned man. You Have Danielle Brooks back in prison. But this time on the other side of the window. Not just being credible. Ms England writable writable. And it's a short scene but it has so much emotional impact and it's a hard seed. It was one of the hardest scenes to direct like Danielle Alderson. I all got together for the first time on onset the daily shoot the scene and we rehearse for like three three and a half hours and that was probably one of the best directing moments for me because we had to get in the scene and figure out the emotional national beats in real time and it was really a massaging of it before and during the shooting and really adjusting in real time in tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. That was probably one configuration moments I've ever had as director and we were all in it and we figured out the ARC in real time and Richard Schiff is the attorney up Richard. He was great. Here's the thing the subtlety in his performance. It's just it's masterful and Wendell Pierce Wendell. Here's the scene where where he's pushing so hard to close that gap and it starts out as this romantic evening. And it just descends into acrimony. Yeah that was one of my favorite scenes to write. It was one of the more challenging saints the direct because you have to figure out the rhythm the emotional rhythm and and those beats where things shift and take a turn and that was another one like the scene with Aldous Donyo where we had to kind of figure it out and work through it and Dan wins again is another invigorating moment as director but we just had to figure it out. Wendell and Alfred had so much great chemistry you know Wendell's performances another one that's just understated understated brilliance and just brings such a natural complexity to the character. And I think about you know the scene where he's reciting invisible man in as he's reciting publicly publicly. It's actually quite an interior moment. I just think that's genius. I have to ask you about Bronwyn. How she came aboard has produced several films so at this point what before clemency not only has she produced several films but she also was probably the producer? I've talked with WHO had the most persistence. And she was the person who I because I talked to several producers to try to figure out who I WANNA work with and she was the one person who unwavered in her support of my vision then and she hustled like. I've never seen anyone hustle before and she's one of the hardest working producers that I know and that combined with her experience and that's why I wanted to work with her. You talked about how this went through so many integrations. Can you share with us. Some of what was left behind so it didn't go through. Too many drastic iterations the Bernardine character arc was always pretty much the same. I think that figuring out Daniel Brooks's character and how much she was going to be in the story MHM changed significantly from the first draft to where we ended up. I had to really figure out the oldest is about burning. This is not about these. It's about all of the people who are part of this ecosystem but I think that with each draft of each revision Bernardine arc came to the surface more clearly than wasn't kind kind of bogged down by too many other subplots and then there were protesters. who had a more significant kind of part of the narrative and Just I it became clear to me that I need to stay in the space of the prison as much as possible and kind of create that Claustrophobia. And that kind of physical containment that Bernardine and of course people who are incarcerated are experiencing. What does this feel like to be having wrapped and now promoting a film in contention for awards you know feels remarkable? I mean I'm actively working on being present to it. This year has been so growth full in that that it's been a challenge for me to allow myself to thrive because I am used to climbing up the hill right like this is the first year that my filmmaking thing is actually financially viable independent of anything else and so I'm used to rejection. I mean every single film I've ever made was rejected by Sundance. I never got into any lab. Nothing of any kind of institution or whatever so. I'm used to climbing up the hill but this year has been about still working hard because my work or Catholic will always remain very high but allowing myself to enjoy the view a little bit and that has actually been incredibly difficult. But I've been really active about figuring Out How to do that so I can enjoy this next stage of my career that I've spent so many years building to this point and the next stage as I understand it. You're attached to the Black Panther. Yes I'm going to direct an adaptation of Elaine Brown's phenomenal memoir a taste of power in so lame Brown is the first and the only female leader. The Black Panther party care. Wait it is completely different than clemency. In anything I've done and one of the things I'm really excited minded about and thankful for. Is that all of the different projects that I'm kind of circling around in the opportunities. That are coming. My way or that I'm able to create for myself are mostly three. Nothing like clemency. And that's exciting. Clemency is been seven eight years of your life. It's been almost all of your adult life. It sounds like I. I don't think I think I got some more years beyond that. In My life you start the movie with basically a botched execution and that's a tough everything else. was that intentional. On your part O is totally intentional. Figure that beginning until several revisions because I realized oh I need a set the stakes from the beginning of the stakes were high enough. I realized from draft to draft draft in the first ten minutes of the film plagues the rest of the movie and play exporting arc. Let's talk about how you decided to end the movie. So I've always known that I wanted wanted to have a moment at the end that evolved in real time that I wanted us to have some sort of experience of that scene in real time. It wasn't clear it to me who or what we were gonNA see until halfway through shooting and halfway through shooting there is a scene that was taken out. That was a long take on Bernardine. It was a really really pretty one but once again I'm not precious. It didn't work narrative Louis as we were shooting it and Alfred and I were talking about it and it just wasn't working for some reason and Alfred just simply said it's because we haven't earned this moment yet we haven't earned the moment of this kind of emotional breakdown or this kind of emotional evolution dilution. Her Arc is incomplete and I was like you know what you are absolutely right and so in the middle of shooting. That's when I knew that I was GonNa have that final moment and I just told my cinematographer coke and nobody knew how long we're going to go. I will never forget the moment we shot it. It was magical the power. You felt watching it. The Magic Doc. You felt watching. It is what we felt shooting it and I knew instinctively all of it was going to be she channeled something. Richard Schiff was sick during we were shooting was supposed to go home. He was so captivated that he even forgotten. WHO's go home and they usually after? I say you know. It's chaos onset quiet it just quiet when you are in charge of the shoot when you are directing a film like this. That is so dark doc and so intense. How do you deal with that? On the set I have done a lot of soul work in my adult life to find an and embraced my joy and that work is some of the hardest work I've done but it's detached from ego and it allows me to connect to allied inside of me that that nobody can take away from me and so I brought that to set that even amid this very intense material the exude our joy. We could exert our light outside of. Have you know when we were shooting. I kept the very light. I mean my talk for an eye. We're dancing on set. You know in between takes. I'm also quite compassionate and caring. I think when it comes to actress and protective tactic of the actors I work with so I was constantly checking in about their wellbeing. We had a therapist onset. When we were shooting the execution scenes and Bronwyn is also check again constantly constantly and Eric DP and I we both have the same philosophy that we set the tone because we shot this in seventeen days right so you can imagine how intense some moments were but even in those moments? We made a commitment to each other that we will never let the frustration or the anxiety spread to anybody else so he would take me aside sometimes when he was starting to see that I was getting tight and he would look the about face and check me and then we had to check him. We take a beat and we get back happy because otherwise how are we going to make this Mathie. You've talked about teaching film as a film instructor. What do you want to communicate to aspiring filmmakers detached from the ego of filmmaking? Making really root yourself in the craft and continued to keep studying the craft most people who pursue filmmaking. It will not be solely financially viable. And I hate to say that. But it's just the reality is a situation that doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to pursue it. I also encourage my students. Men Ts to shoe. Find Joy in something else as well. That will fuel them. Because there's going to be a lot of knows and waiting and if you happiness joy is defined by whether or not a project greenlight or you got a grant or you got the phone call. Then you're not going to be living. You're just going to be existing. And what are your hopes for the outcome of this film. Well I hope a lot of people's feet it. I hope a lot of people see it in theaters. I hope a lot of people see it. In general I hope it instigates conversations around around the humanization of people who are incarcerated in the lives that are tied to incarceration. I hope that it really moves the conversation. And discourse forward when it comes to hugh mass incarceration so it goes beyond just innocence cases but we are not finding people by their worst possible ads and I hope that it widens the possible liberal narrative that feature black women so that we can be truly written as human bean writer director of clemency. Today to thank you so much for joining us on Hollywood unscripted and thanks again to Alfre woodard for joining us for the first half of the show thank you Hollywood. UNSCRIPTED is created by Kirkum media and presented in cooperation with the Malibu Film Society. This episode was hosted by Scott Tol with guests. Alfre woodard and Chinoy Royat Chew Goo produced and edited by Jenny. Curtis sound engineering by Michael Kennedy. The score from clemency featured as the music in this episode was composed by Catherine Bostick and provided courtesy of Neon. The executive producer of Hollywood unscripted is Stuart Halperin. The Hollywood unscripted theme song is by. 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