U.S. and World Champions Max Michel and Lena Miculek on Competition and Shooting Better: Gun Talk Radio | 1.19.20 After Show
The wacky gun talk after show crews scattered and there's no telling what they'll say with reference to part of the talk shop Tom Gresham of course. And we're still out here. Ah The SIG raise day prior to shot. Joe Having some fun just got through watching an amazing destruction of shooting joined right now by Tom Taylor from sick Tom. I mean just had three of your shooters out here but see leader. Mitch Lick Daniel Horner Max Michelle in a weird kind of a made up competition petition right. Yeah we want to have some fun with the different platforms. That are important for us. Obviously the three sixty five with a Romeo zero Daniel shooting and and Max Ed is three twenty with his Max. Romeo Max three optic and then Lena had her. PBC rifle and then we incorporated across the new cross bolt action rifle into the whole process and it was interesting because it wanted to advantage or disadvantage and based on their strengths. And Max isn't really a rifle shooter. But this feels really what he does so it was. It was Max was grousing. Thank you rifle no no. I don't a rifle bolt action rifle. His alternate speed shooting pistol guy. I mean this is like nobody likes him. All these guys can shoot there. That's the whole deal. But it was hilarious to watch. Because they're shooting a bolt action rifle and then let's see Daniel annual and Max transition to pistol but what was interesting is Danny was actually using the P.. Three Sixty Five Excel Romeo zero. Yes us which is a pistol that I am very interested. I've been I've been carrying three sixty five and with twelve hundred meg. So the Excel gives issue that longer grip area right. You'd think a full full purchase on the grip accent longer. Slide as well. Yeah it's a just a little bit. Yeah it's a three point six inch slide versus three point one and then you've got the full twelve around with a fifteen round extension okay and to actually put a fine point. The reason I've been thinking about that as good as the three sixty five years and I love it is frankly thinking about the Texas Church Shooting and Jack Wilson listen there who made a shot in probably from draw shoot one and a half seconds maybe under two second draw shoot with a SIG p the two to nine and he made hitch the idea being that good enough may not be good enough and you need a tool that you report by important. You need something you can make a headshot with something you can do Jack Wilson with and I think take a Lotta people looked at that and said you know I'm not going to carry my little pocket topgun anymore because I may need something where I can actually hit stuff and I mean I shoot the three sixty five hundred well but a little bit more link a little bit more sight radius just helps that it's the thing we always go through it we talk about what's the right guy for you. I don't know it changes from month to month where you're going well. I'm leaving toward you know. What was it single stack? But now like really like carrying more ammo because you never avenue how what the threat is going to be and of course I mean you guys lineup. Wherever you want land you could find a product their share and we've tested through all all the testing that three twenty s gone through with gun itself the US military contracts and all of our guns get tested so dramatically it sig and the three sixty five and the three six five excel? We've done accuracy testing on them and quite frankly the differentiation between the three sixty five and the three twenty is not dramatic. When you put that the sal with a longer slide on it it do anything you need to do inside of twenty five to fifty little longer sight radius? Doesn't it doesn't make the gun more accurate if you put it into a rest. They're all accurate right. It makes a little bit more suitable suitable and manageable. And then throw the optic on there and then you got your well. That's the other part is when you go with an optic hall site race doesn't matter which think about actually allows you to go. Maybe a little bit further back and that goes along side raised to get the accuracy you're looking for and everybody is like everybody. I've talked to in the last six months who's serious conceal carry. A person is either already made the change or is talking about making the change to Red Dot. We're seeing it everywhere and you know. We talked earlier during the day about the Red Dot. Revolution is a big thing that we're looking at at SIG. But recently a major publication had an article that was similar that the red dot revolution in has sort of started and and you're just seeing the bubbling in the water. If you will about red dots and you're hearing everyone talk about it and it seems like every few months ago by more and more more and more people are transitioning to that way of thinking he's shot might not quite appreciate what it does once you shoot it you kind of go. Yeah I make it makes sense but then we're talking earlier one of the things is you're looking through the site not at the site where the fun with iron sights you have to look at the front sight. Focus hard front sight. You lose sharp focus on the threat thing here. WHO's trying to hurt you? That's not a good thing when I shoot. I have a decision make like when I shoot with open. Sides can either wear my readers right shooting shooting glass rider bifocals. I can see the perfect and see my sides for the most part or I can. Let's see my target with a red dot. All that goes away. That's an interesting point. Can you shoot the Red Dot without wearing. You're you're absolutely so you just look at the target and you're looking straight through the red dot and it may not be as crisp right because another interesting story about people that wear readers and a lot of us and the gun world. We're wearing readers is is it. Yeah the DOT may may not be quite as crisp as somebody who has perfect is right but it's still very very workable and took that away. Interestingly with three sixty CPAP SAS which is a whole `nother side option that has the embedded slide saw optical sight in the rear of the slide. Yeah and so you you know for someone with readers for close quarter kind of which is a mission of that gun. It also is a game changer for me as somebody who has to do that because even though the circle is a little blurry and the dots a little Bert still as long as you get concentric. You're good to go the target and never had shotgun with my readers on and I did that and I after I did it with my reader. Oh it's not not actually blurry it's actually a really crystal clear like circle and work. Oh you're thinking that there's something wrong with this site focused thing a little bit Tom. I believe I got that figured out. It's so true you know I was looking at here. Are we fortunate we we get to do all the stuff in interested in our work and all but also the people we get to hang out with and I'm thinking specifically of your shooting team because because they are among the very best shooters on the planet I know Max real well and our Lena pretty well Daniela but less so but with my background with them. They're not just good shooters. They're good people. The I've known Max almost since I came in the industry fifteen almost sixteen years ago when he was very young I met him and I've been working with them very closely for five years and and he's just a world class asked human being and then I knew Lena from working with Jerry over the years knew her when she was a kid still just kinda. She's no she's no the young woman so young woman now and then Daniel. We've gotten to know more recently and you could probably make an argument. And then maybe not even argument some MM cases the best at what they do in their disciplines there. There you know Mount Rushmore esque kind of people in the shooting world. But they're also all three incredible. Will people incredible brand bastards for us and I see them. Interact with people and they're attentive the care when we sat sat down and each individual meeting where myself and our CEO. Ron Cohen sat down. And said you know probably wouldn't be here if you weren't good really good at what you do. You GotTa have that. There's that piece. But he said that in some ways is secondary to the way you treat people the way you represent the bran and we really live that with them and we see it come down the way they treat people and you see interact with the crowd and you've been in the firearms business not sick with other companies and when you actually. This is not unusual in our world shooter. Snow very widespread. I mean the quality of people the like mindedness of people in our industry. When you watch the professionals I mean just like everything us a few people? That are a little less personable. or they're really focused skill set for their shy or whatever but by and large when you come across talk I'm making faces at Lena. And Max by our crowd was raving Lena Max and Daniel. Fat Heads of competed Larry's a lot of fun. But but you know the the shooting community the competitive shooting professionals the quality of the people in the way way they treat people and the way they care about bringing New People into the sport or and or into the industry is amazing and then we get a front row seat to see how they interact with people and how much they care about. They really do care about the sport there really do too. We'll take a quick break here. I'm GONNA take a chance here and we're going to be a pull it off. They wind up no room. You see income. Join US here. We'll be right back. visit gun talk dot com slash win to enter gun talk start the year with SIG giveaway. Four Grand Prize winners will receive one of the following the News Sig Sauer Cross Bolt action precision rifle chambered in six six point five creed more with an eighteen inch barrel and a two stage match trigger six pediatric system with the Kilo Sixteen hundred range finder and a a Sierra eight three four and a half to fourteen power rifle scope to us with the apply. Ballistics data smartphone APP the P.. Three twenty x five legion nine millimeter kilometer pistol with three seventeen round mags or the SIG p.. Three twenty x full pistol with Romeo one pro open reflects red dot sight no state restrictions for the city cross rifle and the system winners pay taxes and all awarded prizes for multiple chances to win Inter now through February fourteenth at gun talk dot com slash win. That's gun talk dot com slash win back with the topic offer. These two people over here. I don't know we've got Michelle. We Got Lena Mitsu chi-chi's yeah. That was fun watching you guys do that thing out. There is like phone but frustrating. You're right it was challenging but it was a ton of fun absolutely. Yeah for me. I mean obviously being a pistol guy right going to shooting a gun was different. It was out of your comfort zone but it was totally awesome in can be happy for Dan then he crushed. It was really awesome to watch. uh-huh what's what's his name he just keeps winning and it's right at you cheated always legal. I'm GONNA do your shooting pistols. What's the carpet against the first one out of a phrase? I've been brace a cast. I've been in a cast. Four sixteen weeks. This little violin was gonNA shoot strong hand only here. I have been training like literally to it would have been bad but I was just whatever you would have made us look bad amazing. If I could've competed with Dan would that Xcel me doing one handed in the most impressive shooting. I've ever done a heck of a gun. I think you could actually let go of it. It would just wouldn't fall sits there thing just doesn't move at all. It's pretty awesome. It's incredible we're talking about red dots. That's early people. Maybe even starting to get a little tired of talking about red dots but it is that much different in helps you with your shooting and particularly I mean you guys competitive shooters but for concealed carry for defensive use for home defence. All the rest of anything for everything anything shooting. This is a really simple saying but you can't shoot what you don't Z.. And the faster you see the quicker you can shoot the more accurately you can shoot the more you can do everything like I can't take off running in the dark. I can only like very slowly. Wander and optic magic ironsides like you can see him but it takes a lot more time strain training red dot time you put that red dot on on an instant and the faster you can see the faster you can go. The fact that there's not any aligning it's not a front sight and a rear excites us. One that alone is huge. Makes them more simple. Yeah exactly here's a thought if you were to take somebody who had not shot before and you hand them pissed with iron sights you have to explain the system and how to use it if you hand them a red dot. You don't have to explain anything right. Correct yes I tell folks. Hey look look at the target is complete target-focussed Donald target and you want to activate the triggers quickly as you possibly can without disturbing the red dot surface area that you're trying to hit. It's that simple. Just point and shoot and the beautiful thing about the Red Dot as well as you can see like. She's saying that you can see so much more so you see the lifting. And that's essentially where the bullet is impacting on the target wherever the DOT Jones off forty. So what I what I call shot calling so I know where my rounds are impacting on the target without having to look at the target to identify or make sure that it's hit there so what does that do for me all to me. It puts me in total control because now I can only shoot as fast as I can see that dot lifting off target and you now have shot placement now comply shot on the shoulder of a target over the target head of a target. Wherever I'm trying to engage I've ever needed because she right handed so I always know it's lower left? It's easy manufactured. Makes them can say another interesting aspect to the question. You asked him the this whole training thing of you gotTa teach people the concept of the front side and the rear side and all that sort of stuff and Brad Brad especially if they haven't learned on open sites it's very intuitive and very easy Kademi feel so strongly about this that are handgun one. Oh one course is now red dot really. You're starting people on so we are starting people off if you're showing up for handgun we're saying look. If you WANNA learn open sites we will teach you open sites but we we want you to learn on the Red Dot and so I question that I said you know. Why are we doing this and they said because right now the dependability? ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE RED DOT has backup sites so we're teaching people as a secondary backup skill. Set is to use your your sites through the red dot. Okay but they believe right now that where this says going and we we keep talking about the transition of open sides to red dots that are standard handgun. One zero one is recommended to start on on red dot optics. Guys if taught like a zillion people to shoot one of the basic things up. See you do it all the time. It's that you know it's your trigger. Press you up so many times. It's trigger press by by using a red dot. Is that allow you to not have to think as much about the average trying to line up their sights and can they concentrate more on manipulating the trigger. Absolutely I mean I think as humans we can actually only do one thing well at a time even though we try and do about eighty so everything saying that you can. Simplify is just going to add to your performance and the ease like we always say what I tell people with kids and new shooters the number one thing you don't i WanNa do is make it fun and easy. So you're going to go with a Lok small-calibre and put down there. I've always told people. Kid You a dot on there because because it's easier when you transition over two pistols at the same thing like it's not just for like I wanted to be as easy as possible for me. So why would I not put it out on their. It's more of. Why would I not at this point instead of why would i? Then I think to go with that as well as I have young kids shoot right in and I started them both with red dots and in fact they just won their competitions and their divisions that we had a competition and a local action New Orleans a couple of weeks ago really okay. Well that's unfair. Everybody's like uh-huh thanking everybody is A. Hey Max we're going to have to bump your kids up to the next class and I'm like guys. They're not even like safe enough yet to start drawing from a holster. What can we do about at this? We give you one more week that go back next week and they both went again. They're like okay. We hate you guys either either leave or how old are they. Twelve and fourteen. Oh man so the red dot teaches you so much as well self-correcting tool so that's what I tell my kids because a lot of guys are like. Hey you're teaching your kids with the Red Dot. Are they going to really learn how to use the irons. And I said well that all work itself itself out because if they can teach themselves can help them with the Red Dot self-correcting tool you can see this dot going everywhere all over the target. Now talking about manipulating the trigger the faster faster. I'm and it played that trigger. Or they're harder manipulate that trigger that dot is going to move off that targeting so that's teaching us as the user of the gun whether it's my kids or me or whoever he's teaching US okay. I need a press the trigger a little easier in the situations. You could actually see the disturbance. He can call servants correct. Yeah I was gonNA say something like shooting on the move and it's just awesome. DOC gives you so much more feedback than ironsides like iron sights are like shooting on the move for sure ironsides. It doesn't seem like you're bad. You're like all right. Do you put it on there. The first time you transition over and you're like I'm GONNA shoot on the move dot. Your feet will be glued to the ground. And you'll be. Oh my gosh is moving so much with the the thing is moving and actually see what's always been happening in the thing. Is You the point. It's always been happening but now you can see in the mazing anything about being able to see it is once you can see something you can make it better and you can understand it but with ironsides you're getting so little feedback you hand progress but it's very hard. You have to really really pay the first time you go to shoot with a rifle scope if you've been holy cow. We're always Walter all the time. So the beautiful thing is you go to the Red Dot and you get all this training you life is easier. It's funner but you're becoming a better shooter in general we're also you take it to the irons and you're just better because of it now when you transition back to them you're gonNA hate irons just like when you transition from one to the other automatically this the biggest thing with teaching I love people anything new you do is going like slow everything down so realize if you've been shooting shooting ironsides your whole life and switch over to that you're not going to you know it's not a magical thing it's going to take training but the training to get to pass to where you were with iron is going to be so real quick. The learning curve on Adat is so talking earlier you know just just if just a draw when you draw you coming up with irons. There's a way that you actually start to see the front sight as it's coming out and you'd may not have to have the barrel tilted exactly correctly but with the red dot if you don't have it aligned correctly you won't even see the dot so you really after go back. I mean maybe cleans up some of your mistakes forces you to and once again with visually being able to see it. It gives you a lot of feedback. It's just going to take a moment to transition from one to the other just like from ironsides on a rifle to a scope. It's going to take a minute for your brain to realize the wobbling rolling is okay. You know things are moving and then you're GONNA learn from it interesting about this time. I'm just say this that we haven't talked about SIG products at all. You guys are talking about read. The technology of using red dots on. It's just that good it is it. Is that real that big advance. I mean obviously. You guys are big in the marketplace with that but I wanNA make the point to people that you guys are not saying this. Just because this is a CIG- product and you guys are on team sick you know. This is a mindset changes. I mean we've gotten feedback because right now another we talked earlier about competitive shooters have been learned have learned this for years. In Special Forces people have been starting to transition years ago but also now even law enforcement agencies are starting to transition red dots teams user. And what's what's starting to happen but even even police forces are beginning to use them and we've seen some transition in soon as their product for six months wants to a year. They're having to raise their qualification scores because the officers are qualifying so much better about your getting to raise the they have the ability now to raise it because ahead keep low before because couldn't pass them but they were becoming so much easier if you will that. They're having a very interesting raise. It and we've gotten feedback from multiple law enforcement agencies. That have said the minute we get fully transitioned and trained because not every cop is a marksman I mean they. They they qualified some some shoot a lot and some don't but as a as a police force we're hearing feedback that they're having to change your qualifications because it's gotten it's gotten a bit easier and so the qualification scores aren't relevant anything that makes she more accurate. Police officer not allows you to put the shots where they're supposed to go which means you're not putting shots where they're not supposed to go in that part of it as well. Well all right so you guys are about to. I mean obviously you got the shot show to get through but then you're GonNa Start Your competitive season again actually never ends for you guys now. I don't think like never ends force it to end if we didn't if we didn't put a line in the sand we would never be bikes and earning your arm. I was at a area match this year and I decided on my drive back home. It was like a thirteen eighteen hour. Drive that I was going to pick up a hobby. 'cause I needed to diversify my life because you have nothing else going on now no so. I went into a bike store and I told him I wanted to bike that. I you go where I wanted to go. And they put me on one and I wrote around in a parking lot and then I bought it and I rode five trails on my way home and then I put it in my garage and I said I was not allowed to the ride. It until after the world shoot this year nationals five days after nationals I broke merced an Colorado crested butte at Downhill Park. I hit a ramp. I am not qualified if any way to hit rams. I didn't even know there was a ramps. We ages. What you're telling me? The ramp was not impressed with all of your world. Titles now it didn't care gravity in either suck me right down into the ground real hard so yeah but I just got out of the on site not long ago you were all cast up. I just got off a week week ago. This actually probably makes the fifth meg. That I've shot with my left hand I haven't shot pistols Danny sputtering already points or any time or anything else. She doesn't need any help. Like a real family. We don't get easy on an ladies teebox here with a rifle in an MTA. Spotty the cat through but we love each other. Well you know okay seriously. Isn't it kind of that way in the competitive world anyway. Yeah I mean 'cause you grown up in the world and you pretty much really have to the competitive shooting world. It's like I want to be brains out but yeah I'll help you too. Is there something we could do. Great Industry through have even more so than that My main training buddy and best friend works for their large and competing company for the whole city but we were also head to head in the industry like I was already in. She came into three gun and everyone freaked out. That actually had come into three animals. Like you guys gotTa go head to ahead and they actually started a lot of turmoil between US lying about saying that was real weird and then I went to Walmart and I bought her a friendship bracelet. I gave a tour to match. I said we're GONNA be friends. And then I went to her house and we made brownies and chef costumes that night and then friendship. He's get over. I don't have that kind of story. Bridget bracelets no brownies. Maybe we need to get over it but it is funny story because I have a few good friends in ministry as well right. I've been doing this for a long time to shoot for other teams right exactly and you know you kinda grew up shooting together and you've always wanted to succeed but it's the outside world that kind kind of pushes you against each other and you have to have one at some point just like you did with the Brownies and the bracelet chapter eventually say. Hey why are we this. This is US many. You should consider that macklowe Brownie embrace party with your allergy. No it worked out real well three years later I mean yeah. Now she lives gives a she moved halfway across the country and I did too and we live like ten minutes apart from each other so we go and train all the time it super awesome. Because she's my biggest competitor so we go and train all the time imagine if she had the equipment you had now great great. That's like one of the great love stories. Fill and rob you know. I can four thirty years. They've shot against but they also have been actively plotting each other's death eh. Actually so they tell us to come up with this way. I'm going to kill you ongoing joke but people you guys going compete together and you know each other new and it's not just here you go all over the world and doing these world matches right. It's kind of like your family away from family right. I mean that's you see the same people you're competing. It's the same folks and we'll get into the day I WANNA win. That's what I do right but it's also like before like a family. If I don't win I want that person to win. I want that person because I know these guys are putting just as much work as I'm putting it in. There's just a stress. Were always worry things. It's really fun. You talk about your kids how multigenerational it is. I mean man you are. The living embodiment third-generation national champion. Okay and at some point. Maybe there's more generations I don't know what's going on with because you you also have extended family. You got people out there doing stuff that part of it's fun and also for you guys. It's got to be a little scary because you get a sixteen seventeen. Eighteen year old comes along with reflexes like bolt of lightning near terrifying. Yeah it's okay. Nobody else wants to get in the sport. It's not that that's true. Go to ever do this. I don't have any fun on the range nor will tell. That's actually a good point because I was that kid before work. Okay I started when I was eight. And then I remember like Rob Latham and Todd Jared and Doug Canada and you know obviously Lena's Dad Jerry I remember seeing those guys in striving to not beat them but want to be there and I remember being fascinated really couldn't hit anything and children. You cannot miss fast enough to where there's times when you can but not all the time. I've seen your dad do that now. I see it on the other end. Now it's like you know I'm still actively competing at the highest level. I'm very fortunate and blessed for so long but you look at sixteen and eighteen like holy cow. That was me that kid had just a little bit more experience and more knowledge to slow down. Just a touch kit. You're killing call me right now. They're doing that kid. That's what it's a truly love instructing now. I think you're instructed by the way. Thank you I this makes my eighth year professional competitive shooting and the end of last cheer. I actually called my dad and I was like dead. I finally think I know how to shoot. And I'm not talking about competition. Sandra what but I finally only feel like as a person I can put properly pull the trigger and have understanding of what's going on you know but like I finally feel like a big thing back on top of thing. I'm so excited for twenty twenty because now I finally feel like I can shoots and now. I'm going to focus on how to shoot competitions and I know it sounds really wild but there's there's so much like so in depth and I'm such a technique nerd I got to work with you and I I love it. I love the technique making the deep dive into it. Do Your you study it at a really intense level details. Okay how am I gonNa do a quad loud or you're not grab your fingers it all the way. You're just GONNA use the pads of your fingers when you wrap around the shotgun shells. Yeah yeah every everything has has a reaction you know there is feedback from absolutely everything you do on the range and the only time that you're not learning is when you're I'm not taking that feedback in the thing is people only look for good feedback but the good the bad the ugly every single action you do you can learn from and I love that. I love understanding the body Eddie mechanics behind things and the mechanics of the guns. Because I'm smaller bomb so I have. I cannot overpower overcome anything with muscle or mass everything. I do has to be technique so I have to focus on it and I. It's probably why I'm like ooh. Let's get into the body mechanics headaches and bone structure and like. How can we utilize this though? It's fun you got to win. This is so fun. No one else is total nerd word on everybody else fall asleep. I'm like ooh techniques. I think that's why he's so good at what you do right. Because one of the mornings I picked up on that what she said and hopefully by allstate as well as that. She wants to see the bad things right. She wants to see those things that you can learn and be better and when you shoot good and it's fun you know obviously in everybody. They like to do what they're good at. Because it's fun but she wants to see the negative things so that when she has a better understanding of what she's doing so she can be a better shoot on the arrange whenever whenever she needs it one of the biggest questions people probably always ask you to is. What are you going practice? And I was telling people if you don't know what to go and practice think of the the one thing you hate the most and do it because we only like as humans what we're good at so if you don't like it I guarantee you're not a good at it practices not fun. I guess now. I'm not very good at practice and I don't think it should be. I mean yeah I mean maybe WANNA confidence booster before we go to your last practice but up until that point like she said it's the top three things that I'm bad at. I feel that I need work with. I'm that's GonNa be my practice right if you're right. Those are the ones you really don't like doing ought to him as well. Now you hate you paid it like the things you loath last year. I shot thirty and fifty yard plate rex with pistol and I will go both hands strong hand we can. This is not something I can do. This is not this is this is literally me going going. What would make my stomach drop if I had to show up and do this? And that's what it was because I didn't want to so that obviously meant head to learn from it. I learned a lot. I go see you asked a question that you can't Levy it's too much too many things. They're seven seven of what I learned from this one practice session which is which is true. You can take away as much as you want to do. DOC amazing eventually. We have to stop. You guys have do thank you for that now say how you out of there when over and sit in with us. This is terrific. Perfect Tom I mean a great day event you know great company great people. I mean you know. People don't know okay. I grew up with your family. All right basically you know our families this family yes and maximum are actually neighbors is like we see each other at stores in the same town so it's like okay. This is kind of weird. It's weird we actually see each other more by going to Las Vegas that we do use on the same flight right. Same shuttle bus is so weird. It's like okay so you guys are like full friends. And all of that and Tom. I've known forever and ever now it's just it is the whole deal and I don't care if you're in industry or if you're a competitive shooter who worked who shoots on a local or regional level. You end up with people that they become year people. There's a shared interest and there's a shared culture. That's part of it too. I say I have a family early in every country that I've ever gone to because every world should have ever gone to. I'm in a group of Eight hundred two thousand people that literally the almost every one of them I can go up to an have an amazing conversation and by the end of it. We're all right. Let's go have dinner like what are you doing. Everyone's excited enthusiastic caustic. And you're not really in this sport or industry without a passion and that's something that I do love about. It is if you're just like a man person I'm I'm not GonNa meet. You know you have to be committed and you have to want something. It'd be doing something and if you are you're going to be in this industry and it's really interesting if you're going to get into competitive shooting if you're going to get into this whole your courage. Anybody who's thinking. Yeah I've always wanted to go out and try and match but I don't know if you just go do. There's somebody there who will help you. Absolutely guaranteed every single match us. Walk in and say I don't really know about you about this. Somebody will take you by the hand right absolutely. And it's like that old saying I mean everybody starts art somewhere right so lena. Lena didn't become a world champion overnight. A father and become champion overnight. None of us have so. There's a lot of work and dedication but what started. It was the love and the passion for the Second Amendment for shooting for bringing your family getting your family out there to do something outdoors. I mean that's what it's always been for me. My father got me started shooting when I was five years old. So it's become a passion and a way of life life for me and for my kids. So it's it's a great opportunity to get everybody involved. So if you're so definitely get out there and I said the same thing to law enforcement of military as well you know don't feel L. threatened or don't feel out of place because there's competition people go out there and your kitten your gear. Bring some of your team your team with you and lose a picks brass or loser buys beer. Whatever right you have a great time and you get better if you have something on the line for each one though yeah I can buy beer? Picks up the brass or does something. Yeah there's there's a reason for that. I'll tell you tom to that end and I just thought about as you guys are talking and we're no matter where you're starting on what you're doing this spring we're going to be doing some experiences. sicker category with warrior maxine Daniels. What people come with these people? Yeah so the singer Kademi website and check that out and they're going to be doing classes ketamine. They do a lot of instruction. This'll be my first time getting teacher the academy so go ahead look it up. It's going to be amazing. The academy is amazing to man verbal double facilities great and the instructors. Say The world class instructors are. You are adjunct instructor. Guys traveling minstrel show that goes through there so great and you know you know what I like is kind of what Lina said to you. Know do things. You're bad at and training and Iraq. Typically those guys are extremely good at. I am not good so I go there. And Hey Max urinetown can you hang out with us for a few hours some training on the range. It's kind of like AH workshop. I'm teaching things teaching a few things and we always finished with a competition. Go and I always want them to pick the competition. Because I know I'm going to lose our. It's GonNa be a struggle so for me to win yard plate racks. Let's go one hand. This one ended ads. They're accurate and patients patients on on. These people is angry and angry with him. I'd say look plate racks at seven yards. Let's go I can't let you go yet. 'cause you just sit there and I want to throw in in here if you are a firearms instructor and there are all of the country. I'm going to ask you to comment on this. Go take classes as with other with really good instructors in learn how better to teach people because when you guys watch people teach you. That was interesting what he just did what. What did what just happened there? That was you talk about. People being patient that part of the whole deal in learning to be a better instructor absolutely at like absolutely absolutely never stop learning and if you label yourself as an instructor you labeled yourself as a forever student and if you you stop learning then I don't think you're real instructor. You have to keep going in progressing because techniques and everything out there we'll keep keep getting better and it's your job as a professional learner to go and masted into that you can teach them and translate it. Yeah yeah translates because you're dot com and the Kademi Younes six-hour flour. Yeah Academy from Paul County Dot Com. I appreciate it. Thanks for checking out the after show and don't forget to join the gun. Talk Squad taught dot com and grab gun deal for your smartphone. It will save you money on guns Ammo limbaugh Eh.