124: The CFLs Baltimore Stallions With Ron Snyder
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Here's give up the ball on nine seconds remaining so the baltimore stallions are champions of the canadian football league for nineteen eighteen ninety five is jim speros onerous -gratulations along the coast and he was just talking to give a kiss to the guy did exciting punch guys over there and they deserve it or don matthews his second win as a head coach five five times as an assistant coach with the edmonton eskimos. He was on grey cup. Winner won the trophy in one thousand nine hundred five b._c. Elias van will take it back in nineteen ninety five decade us fast and see last campaign yeah but this has been a very satisfying season for the baltimore stallions their thirteenth consecutive wins they finished the regular season wins two postseason playoff wins and now this great cup triumph and they celebrate the great cup champions of nineteen ninety five and one of the happiest of all jim speros the owner of the football. Welcome to good good seats still available a curious little podcast devoted to exploring what used to be in professional sports. Here's your host. Tim hamlett inlet wealth greetings friends. What's new. What's shaking. What's happening. What is going on. My name is tim hanlin and this of course is good seats still available the curious little podcast that is devoted to what used to be in professional sports and and that clip that you just heard is probably a quintessential example of what we're all about on this little show that is from the canadian broadcasting company back in in november of nineteen eighteen ninety five november nineteenth nineteen ninety-five be exact live from taylor field in regina saskatchewan and yes that was the first first and only time that a team in the united states won the canadian football league's grey cup and that of course was maybe not out of course this is probably a team that nope not many people remember the baltimore stallions yeah in one thousand nine hundred five the baltimore stallions were the best team bar none in the canadian football league and you're scratching your head going wait a minute. There was an american football team in the canadian football league. What are you talking about him. Well <hes> obviously you have not then listen to to our earlier episode with our friend ed willis that when we talked about sort of survey basis <hes> that <hes> initial experiment airman back in the mid nineteen ninety s when the canadian football league yes <hes> somewhat financially strapped said hey why don't we add some franchises in the united states and that'll help sort of rejuvenate both financially and from a fan interest level more <hes> own. I guess if you will for the cfl think i think <hes> we you know we've been playing football for for dozens of years. It was like the n._f._l. So why don't we also look into perhaps spreading some of our unique brand of football into the united states and and baltimore not in the first season of the n._f._l.'s expansion into the united states but definitely in the second in nineteen ninety four it was <hes> an expansion franchise they played in memorial stadium in baltimore and <hes> we're gonna get into <hes> the beginnings of that story which <hes> work at just as curious as the ending which you just heard of that story with our guest this week rod snyder <hes> who has written the book the essential the quintessential book on the baltimore more with they became the baltimore stallions of course <hes> historians will remember that nineteen ninety-four. They weren't called the stallions at all. They were just call the baltimore. Really nothing's the c._f._l.'s c._f._l.'s. They wanted to call himself the colts but the n._f._l. <hes> had other designs on that and and we'll talk about all of that as to why but ron's book is called the baltimore stallions brief brilliant history of the cfl champion franchise. It's a fascinating tale of a city baltimore that <hes> you know had a ton of football heritage. <hes> lost its football heritage seemingly in literally overnight when the cults absconded for cleveland and cleaned excuse me for indianapolis cleveland comes in later doesn't it and then gets the n._f._l. Back when cleveland then decides that they want to move to baltimore in nineteen ninety five and interesting in between those two events not immediately but but sandwiched in between the leaving of the the n._f._l. And the announced return of the n._f._l. Was this very interesting to year saga of the cfl franchise in baltimore ultimo that first year known as the c._f._l.'s were you know maybe more informally as the cult's but never formally because they don't want to violate copyright and the second year as the stallions and of course winning the entire championship of the cfl in one thousand nine hundred five. It's a fascinating story. <hes> we get into all the nooks and crannies of it including what happens or what happened to the history of this team less to be forgotten and <hes> sadly it is <hes> a lot of it has been forgotten and that's obviously partially why we exist here is to not forget these very important stories of times that occurred and we are fascinated by the topic and the conversation with our guest ron snyder coming up in just a couple of moments. You will enjoy it. I guarantee before we do so. I just want to say hello and welcome and thank you to our friends. At old school shirts dot com tom <hes> who has the most amazing website for throwback shirts not only of teams and leagues that we like to talk about and relish here on this little show and again all kinds of <hes> ah franchises <hes> no longer with us or previously domiciled high-quality t shirts stuff that you can find an old school shirts dot com you name the team or the league. They probably have a good smattering of offerings up. They also have a ton of stuff in things like pop culture <hes> whether it be old radio stations or defunct amusement parks or ice cream parlors or restaurants of <hes> of your all of them memorialize than their original t-shirt reform and the original logos that they've somehow gotten into their little band of <hes> mary productions there <hes> an old school shirts dot com at cincinnati is a tremendous and his place and of course <hes> our friend p._f. Wilson and his team have a promo code for you of course and that's good seats good seats. That's the promo code at old old school shirts dot com. Please use that early and often for ten percent off all of your purchases. I i've got a bunch of shirts myself there long lasting thing they're they're well made <hes> they won't let you down and by the way they're probably going to get you a couple of comments <hes> with some of those great logos and stuff. There's one in there. If you're from new jersey like i am which i just added to my collection dedicated to the old action park in <hes> i think it was <hes> vernon valley great gorge new jersey and <hes> it was an interesting amusement park to say the least i would call it. Amusement park was more of a sort of an action sports kind of thing including a very <hes> <hes> in retrospect dangerous <hes> cement sort of toboggan ride that <hes> if you went off the track just a little bit you <hes> you left some skin along the way <hes> as s._u. Slid down that <hes> that thing action parka some vivid and mostly fond memories there <hes> in the old vernon valley great gorge area. I would just one of the many sort of cultural shirts and remembrance you'll find among sports and all kinds of other stuff at old school shirts dot com and use that promo code good seats for ten percent off. If all of your purchases thanks very much old school shirts dot com for their sponsorship and <hes> of course we thank you for giving a listen to this very interesting conversation conversation with our new pal ron snyder. Let's talk about the baltimore stallions of the canadian football league showy. Here's our conversation coming up right now. Help me out here. Gimme gimme a starting point by which you tair about this team and this this wacky little window of baltimore and professional football. We talked a little bit about it with that willis a year ago or so about sort of crazy experiment of the cfl thing but how do you stumble into the story. Well i come at it from a from a different angle. I'm a i'm a lifelong baltimore advent longtime longtime sportswriter here in town <hes> and i was six years old when the ball mccoll left town. I was eighteen. The ravens arrive in town though you do the math from first grade twelfth grade. We didn't have an n._f._l. Team here so my whole childhood was out with n._f._l. <hes> free basically basically as far as our own team you know so <hes> so i didn't have growing up and there was this talk of the of <hes> expansion coming on their early to mid ninety and to use it and we had all the ownership groups together and everyone felt really confident that all was going to get a team in nineteen ninety two they had had they sold out memorial stadium with over fifty thousand fans for a preseason game for the saints and the dolphins <hes> and and we thought that we we had a shot and they went and charlotte got the first team ended up being the panthers and we understood that was a new team in town. It was a new market market. They were gonna hurt them. You know what they're going to two teams like okay well. We're gonna get the next one. We felt really good that we're going to get the next one. We had so many chances to get a team in the interim. You know the the cardinals at t's coming here the buck cities coming here a couple of other teams that coming here and they make the announcement in jacksonville so we kind of understood charlotte jacksonville kinda take this off. <hes> 'cause we're like woods. Jacksonville area had two teams in florida and we've got really upset and you know there were a lot of people that were completely done with the n._f._l. Time you know we're getting ready. <hes> this is <hes> we're talking. I'd read really go into the hall of fame. There was no address. There was no ray lewis. There was no ravens and there was nothing in town for football goes orioles who were still you know enjoying the run of <hes> early camden yards so there was a lot of crafts. It was baseball. We a lot of baseball fans. We still wanted football. We kinda had you know a <hes> <hes> so <hes> tagliabue <hes> had said told us. Maybe we should take that money and building museum well. It made us even matter and we were ready to tell the n._f._l. And long comes guy jim spirits and he says you know what you guys don't need the n._f._l. We're coming in. We're bringing fierce l. team year to baltimore and we're gonna call them. The baltimore cfl colts and baltimore and anyone who knows baltimore where blue collar town. We have a little bit of inferiority complex. We have us against the world mentality and you know what we said. You know what it's not the n._f._l. But let's give this thing change. Doug flutie. Ludi is pinball. Clemens is <hes> we don't warren moon played up there for a while also. Let's see what the cfl things all about and we just rallied around it and i just remember as a this is the first football team that i had a chance to enjoy as a as a child <hes> the teenager and you started watching. These guys is a pretty good and it was fun. Football is a little different n._f._l. But the bigger field three downs <hes> and it was it was fun to watch. Shouldn't you know they go all the way one year they make it to the you know they make it to the grey cup the first year and then make it to the they win the grey cup the second year and where are it's us against the world. It's asking fell. We get to play a year without a name with the team because they the n._f._l. Sudas you know canada doesn't want us in in in the c._f. L. a. they still a lot of comedians resentful of the u._s. Expansion so it was really us against something. Baltimore always rallies behind <hes> <hes> and then you know the ravens come out the browns announced. They're coming from baltimore baltimore and next thing you know the the saudi and win the c._f._o. Nineteen ninety five they're gone now. I don't even remember them really lead in order. They played one day and gone the next and it's just like wow they were thinking that they did everything we asked him to do. And we just kind of you know. It was like you know. The ex girlfriend dumped you. They were awful scene and they were dumped you and and then you're gonna find you know a new girlfriend. Who's who's treats you right and wants to do everything for you and then the old girlfriend causes you know what we'll take looking back and then we all went back to the left other girlfriend <hes> behind and i was totally you know they never really they meant a whole they bridge the gap between the colts and the ravens. They taught a whole generation of football fan how to be a football town again. <hes> and i think it helped us. Get ready for the ravens. <hes> you know everyone says well. There's success here with reason the you know. The ravens came yeah. No reason to three we had a great stadium deal and there was everything in place. I think the fact that did so well that they got thirty five forty thousand fans so we'll see us all game help ah but i don't think there's no reason and i always felt like it was the story needed to be told. I always wanted it to be told <hes> and i do three years. Here's had written a news. You know a an update articles year a little article there you know with the various spots. I was updated the teams kind of reflected on it and then e._s._p._n. The n. always did this thirty for thirty's. Everyone loves it would make a great thirty for thirty. I mean what what a conference events. How else could you describe this two. When you're running it was hit everything you know tragedy triumph it had no social economic issues that had you know <hes> ah everything that you could ask for in a story all wrapped into one and this never really told and i'm just gonna do it myself. <hes> and it was a long process process. I tried for a long time to get this. Make us book happened <hes> and then one day. I'm just gonna make it happen and you know. This is kind of where we're at. We'll so all right so clearly. There's passionate right so this is the seems to match up with some of your were later childhood as well which to me is is a theme that that kind of echoes i think thank frankly a lot of our listeners kind of have some pang of their own childhood histories and maybe arguably that's what sort of you know keeps. That sort of flame came alive around you know teams and leagues. It certainly was for me as i all these other ones like with me about being up near cosmo's soccer fan. I mean that that to me sort it was is it was very much part of my childhood but i'm also hearing now sort of okay here. I am as an adult now and the story does need to be told. How do you go what about the process before we get into this kind of elements of the story itself. How do you think about going about getting this story kind of framed and a narrative for it in the process of writing the story so the process <hes> luckily i've been a journalist down for a long time so i had a lot of contacts <hes> in the industry <hes> including the old their former mike gallagher who was the team's <hes> v._r. Director director is still in town as the baltimore. Native sports producer went on to work <hes> for the race track for a long time. <hes> now is <hes> working in <hes> in sports administration at my monitor house university so we stayed in contact with the years. We always talked about wanting to do that. He talks a lot about the players as well and he kept in touch a lot of players so who's able to help me connect with a lot of the players so that was that was one element. <hes> you know i also <hes> there was several sports. It's a story in town. <hes> helped move other projects that i've worked with for the years that had all types of memorabilia photos things along those lines and that really helped that'll element because again the these are teams that don't exist anymore so finding mix finding those artifacts important as well and you know again knowing growing up a baltimore knowing fans knowing season ticket holders <hes> did that help and of course we live in the modern day with the internet so the internet social social media youtube that all so really it was a combination of old school new school technology. You know end this institutional knowledge as well. Oh on the living here knowing the story. All kind of you know. All the elements were day are just a matter of finding a way to put it all together. How many people really wanted to revisit this story because because it seems that depending on your perspective right either it it opens old wounds or or there is some kind of the staff or frankly i can imagine imagine a whole bunch of people in town and frankly pro football generally that would how can i best describe. This almost wanna is sort of paper over this little period of time between the colts else leaving in the ravens arriving. Look good and i think if you're reminding of your i'm forty one now. If you are i would say thirty to forty five. You know that was a time where you again. Your childhood was kind of taken away from coal cleveland and you didn't have football so there's that correction there that was here on the childhood memories that that really embraced the stallions <hes> there was of course some of the older colts colts fans who you know well the fact that they brought football back you know they could go out there and they could share on the call <hes> and and again even if they weren't gonna call him the colts football back in baltimore the <hes> there's that generation and you know i <hes> i'm also <hes> where many hats i'm also an adjunct the junk <hes> journalism media communications professor and you know talking to a lot of weight you gotta c._f. L. team in baltimore and they had thirty thousand van come out to watch cfl and they were intrigued so there was a multi generational <hes> intrigue treating this about it <hes> and then also there are several fan groups that are still out there on social media. <hes> that's still connect. They have reunions. They talk to each other. They share memorabilia from this time. <hes> they wanted this for a long time as well <hes> they helped connecting me with. You know a lot of the players. Do they still go up to the grey cup. <hes> you know even to this day so there's <hes> there's a lot of interest in began his it's more the story more than unjust this year the football team and how the team you know <hes> you know look at the whole cfl a u._s._a. Experience experiment <hes> this is really a story really i think again. I think it's a story that starts the day that the coleslaw town and the day the ravens arrive. I set the table a little bit right so nineteen ninety three right the cfl announces that they're going to <hes> ah add a team one team in sacramento gold miners <hes> to play in ninety-three and they do indeed do that and <hes> you know the the better team shall we say of of <hes> of the league that year but the next year nineteen ninety-four there was obviously some level of success because three count him new teams added from the united states including this new team in baltimore so you mentioned jim speros obviously he is a key he player in all of this. Maybe give our audience a sense of who he is. Slash was in all of this and how the idea of baltimore getting a cfl team of all things comes into play because there was a little dalliance with the u._s._f._l. Back in the eighties right. They were only call the baltimore stars. I didn't play in baltimore. <hes> you mentioned the pursuit of both and expansion franchise as well as trying to lure the cardinals to baltimore that kind of those kind of fizzled out what's the story of speros and why i think it was it was really a perfect storm kind of came together and you talked about and book a little bit about the u._s._f._l. S. f. l. and there was a baltimore stars but really i mean they practiced in philadelphia. They played in college park. They never actually played in baltimore. The league folded play right a chance so they they were never really in baltimore. You know again. This is kind of a perfect storm that kind of came together <hes> the the the city was looking to memorial stadium him without point was vacant because again as i mentioned earlier orioles and moved into camden yards so you got this food stadium downtown. That's sitting vacant <hes> you have you know the the hoping to place n._f._l. Team and so they could eventually build a new stadium in downtown baltimore which eventually did with the ravens <hes> but again when that <hes> renews <hes> you know i think baltimore <hes> didn't get the n._f._l. Team and there was talk about possibly coming before that but they were waiting to see what the n._f._l. What they were obviously again. They were waiting for the waiting to be asked the prompt by the captain of the cheerleading team so to speak right <hes> and then when when when she said now well they said well we got here. Let's let's see this. The state has to has in store for us and jim spirits with a former college. Football player played at clemson <hes> he had a good amount of experience in in business <hes> and he was a ball energy. I mean he was you know he can't came in and he saw he saw an opportunity that maybe <hes> would never come around again. I mean if there was a time in baltimore sports with this could work and i think again when there was very short for its work he had to come in and just the right time and when luik said and we're going to charlotte and jacksonville. I think baltimore said you know what we don't need. You guys <hes> and he said look i. I love ya. I wanna bring football back to baltimore and i'm gonna bring. We're the c._f._o.'s come in and we're gonna call him the moment he announced that the a._f._l. Colts cfl calls. He captured the heart of baltimore because you know again. It's at us against the world mentality and you know for them to be successful accessible in the field. They couldn't call themselves anything now whether he knew that they were gonna get sued or not. You know that's again you know he he took a chance with that <hes> whether they were gonna be able to use that name and we'll talk about that in a couple of minutes but he said you know we're gonna bring the whole back to baltimore and for every fan that grew up on sunday without a football team for every fan that cried today that makes our trucks move out of baltimore. That's not march day nineteen eighty-four. They'll ready to give this guy a chance so he can. It could not have worked. I don't think any other time baltimore sports but that window right there and he you know the old baltimore in the n._f._l. And they were ready to ride with them well so it sounds like the colts colts. Nickname right was very much part of his mixture right not only bringing a team of pro football in it. We'll show the n._f._l. Is obviously a market ear as people been sniffing around and trying to get the stadium ready willing and able to to hosted an hopefully a market. That's <hes> that's hungry for it but it sounds like he was almost under the impression that the colts nickname could be gotten were had and was was a valuable part of all of it in terms of at least marketing no absolutely luton the baltimore cfl cult. I mean you know what we're gonna. Call this alkyl. Not the baltimore colts. We'll see the marching band was the baltimore colts mark. Mark van and we'll talk a little bit about them as well. Then who you know says and we'll see we got the march and being here. There's still the cold. We'll get the baltimore colts. Let's let's let's give it a shot and you know i think that is what the fans wanted. You know i think that they could. I don't know you know if he would have gotten the support of the guy if you to call them the bomb or even the stallions that person <hes> you know he had come in and really the name that would connect with the city in no other name would work other than the colts well. Let's let's say let me you have to sort of two planks of pursuit here so one. Let's let's let's finish this nickname thing right because as the team while i should before he gets the nickname the team so spirit is what's his what's his m._o. You now how does he go about convincing the city and leaders and all that because he's you know it's one thing to get folks to rally around the idea of getting a pro football ball team but i guess it's quite another eighty convince them about the n._f._l. Like a foreign concept to put a team together to let let alone getting a nickname in place. I think there were there was a couple of years here. One just mentioned you have baltimore city which owned memorial stadium. It's sitting vacant and it's not gathered. It's gathering us. It's it's it's not doing anything for the community within your world again and moved to canada yards a couple of years earlier at this point in time so so <hes> they were keeping it ready for an n._f._l. Team and the governor at the time william donald schaefer who was mayor <hes> in baltimore when the calls left and and took it as hard as anybody in the colts left town really wanted to bring the n._f._l. Back to baltimore. They had this huge deal in place. <hes> you know they put the funds in place for downtown stadium and really went all in for the n._f._l. So he was kind of a hold out. <hes> the mayor at the time <hes> a baltimore <hes> kirk smoke. He realized that look we get an opportunity to get a tenant in the stadium it ticket receipts. You'll get look. We don't have the n._f._l. This point in time. We don't know if the n._f._l.'s ever coming back but we got this team here and we know yes. It's an experience thing but we know the c._l.'s been around for for for decades. <hes> and you know i'm willing to give this guy a chance. <hes> would also help with the fact that he networked very very well in town along with with obviously with the leaders <hes> he met with tom. Matty <hes> former colts great who was part of the ownership ship team portion of the team. You know he also met with folks like john. Steadman the great baltimore colts <hes> baltimore sun columnist mess so he he met with all the right people <hes> and network and got everyone on board you know he's he built this foundation and really was ready to rock and enroll <hes> heading into that season well. It's also a more exciting brand of football as well right so and you know it does overlap sort of the later summer months that arguably could attract <hes> some bigger crowds versus the more direct competitive nature. I guess of of the n._f._l. So there's some some idiosyncrasies. I guess to the schedule as well which makes it seem. Even i guess a little bit more more intriguing but so he gets everybody involved in and clearly is motivated stadium owner in the city to sort of see that and and frankly i guess the the sort of colts name pixie doesn't hurt but it doesn't go that smoothly when it comes to getting the nickname because the colts owned by the n._f._l. Or part of the n._f._l. Right don't take kindly to their quote. Unquote unquote nickname being used in their former place of of residents. What sort of happens there walk us through the craziness of that because i i'm. I'm not sure you could have picked a more awkward nickname what they ultimately had used the first season right so yes so what happens is the obvious the court because the n._f._l. And irsays we're not gonna let this go by the spirit was just being naive or was he willing to pick the fight and thought he was on the right side of this or is it just seems kind of i guess in retrospect. How could you not think us lawsuit would come out of this. I didn't think of come out live but i think he knew for this to work. He needed to get the community support and i don't think i think having that community support and knowing baltimore being ah off against the world mentality for them to get that that initial support i it wouldn't have worked. I don't think any other nickname would have worked <hes> whether they they would've gone with the stylings where we're going with the bombers they would have gone with any one of a number of names that was quoted about <hes> that point in time. I think to get get the the tach that that passionate football that anger that they had against the n._f._l. <hes> the city had at that time it. It had to be the colts again. I think it was it was a calculated risk on his part. A little bit of dreaming i guess too so the momentum and the the the community spirit and all they can do and we'll kind of maybe ultimately solved the problem right and he thought maybe it's david versus goliath <hes> and and so forth so oh of course you know the n._f._l. Is the n._f._l. And they've been around for as many years they've been for reason <hes> so there's an injunction placed against them right towards the beginning of the season at this point in time the end zone has colts on all the programs <hes> you know have baltimore colts wanted the shirts the hats of every piece of memorabilia out there has colts written on it so there's an injunction place against the team and they're not allowed to to have any way of of t._v. <hes> promos you know culture back. You know <hes> all have cultivar so they can't use the colt else. It's a week of you know for the regular season. What are they gonna do so they end up you know literally having interns take sharpie for every piece of <hes> ah program and ticket stub and so forth and and blackout the coals they they blacked out the <hes> and then they you know they had to bleep out colts in in the promo or already airing on on t._v. and radio and they didn't have time nickname so they kind kind of went with the baltimore. <hes> i guess for big really newspaper headlines purposes. They call them the baltimore c._f. Allers basically at that point join time for unofficially especially. They had no nickname so you know <hes> you know bruce cunningham. He did the radio broadcasts. <hes> you know hold me. He said <hes> we're longtime. Sportscaster towns that we ourselves and joe washington cover called twenty games that season and we're never able to <hes> you know been henna. Colon is the term baltimore so it was <hes> as unique of a thing it's possibly happening. Teams expansion team had no name name. Well i mean how crazy does that sound right but <hes> you know and again you look at the memorabilia right to the there is a cottage industry. <hes> devoted to finding finding sort of those original shall we say misprint indoor trademark infringing items out there but everything else though right seemed kind of like almost colts ish sh if not in name everything else right absolutely i mean it was still there was a blue and white and silver patterns. They had <hes> the <hes> <hes> logo very similar to the broncos. You know talk about how the broncos kinda stole the stallions <hes> logo in the years afterwards <hes> you know so we had had that and look when when that first season you know you can tell you know the n._f._l. Could tell you know the team. They can't use. They couldn't tell the fan so you know whenever you the p._a. Address we go your baltimore a._f._l. And they were still yeah i'll call it was still hot coals they they did when united and bury and more donovan on on sideline so so <hes> was <hes> again a kind of a <hes> david versus goliath thing and and you could tell alcatel team that could uncalled but they weren't gonna tell the fan that they couldn't call them a call so it stands today that it was sort of a winking and nodding guess stopping just short of vat line of copyright infringement but you know not letting the kind of the fans in the stadium yelling colts after the public address announcer stopped short at cfl. It seems like every other shall we say informal avenue kind of just made that translation to cults pretty much streaming. They walked they walk. The line is is tightly as they could that that point in time but yeah and it worked. I mean it worked looked at you. Talk about you know in in public relations. You talked about earned media. Yeah i mean this was making national news. Nobody talks about the cfl any other time. I mean it would lead in the leading stories on sportscenter within sports illustrated or was in the washington post. I <hes> you know it was on national news. I mean you can't get that type of public relations. <hes> you know <hes> attention <hes>. I'm just by calling it. The bombers were none of that would have happened so i mean you know in you know at that point the calculated risk with genius because because you how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in turn media they get dressed by calling themselves uh all right we'll be back with our conversation sation it just a couple of seconds but first a little commercial message from our friends at manscaping the number one resource for men's below the belt grooming yup manscaping they offer precision engineer tools for your family jewels and that's not just a slogan friends. 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Cast-offs offs etc but but maybe folks who are a little bit more finely tuned to the cfl version of the game when terms of looking players and coaches right and a little bit of background background for the c._f._o. C._f._l. has no a ratio rule in canada where you have to have so many canadian born players on your roster now now employment laws obviously wouldn't allow that that work in the united states today had the option of bringing whoever they wanted to <hes> and <hes> would he did right away was understand that he needed to bring in people who understood the cfl game <hes> and so he started right willie don matthew <hes> now lay down massey's <hes> who <hes> hall of fame coach and the cfl <hes> and was established as it was very events events minded coach goes and get signs shaw tracy ham. It was a a great quarterback for georgia southern eighties and had a great career <hes> the n._f._l. And then he gets jim popp young up and coming <hes> personnel a man in the league <hes> until when he would would link the good owners do let the football people take care of the football operations and they put together a team that <hes> for the most part was filled with veteran c._s._l. Players <hes> and really kinda all bought into what they were trying to do here in baltimore and it worked well right because they kind of hit the ground running. They were very competitive team. I mean you know i think that also added to the fervor of this club right because they essentially kinda hit the ground running and all the way to the great cup forget six right. Hey i mean yeah and they <hes> they still do the winner. Initial game at the toronto argonaut <hes> they're playing at skydome rogers centre now <hes> and then they come home. They have a rough game. They lose their home of who knew what they were doing. They brought the calgary stampede with baltimore's moore's first game <hes> would flutie on the rosser the time so everyone knew doug food was <hes> and you know they lost that game that they go and they kind of find themselves <hes> and they're they're they <hes> twelve and six and that first season eighteen games in the n._f._l. Schedule <hes> and automatically you know in the mix of their big wind comes late in the season <hes> it's in a win at home in front of about about forty thousand fans in winnipeg blue bombers who won the east division that years finished second and it was a big fifty fifty seven to ten win. Eh forty thousand fans memorial stadium and i kinda think kinda let them know they could be anybody that point in time <hes> again the play off and you know they they make all the way to the great cup that first year and grey cup <hes> was there still is considered one of the all-time great games and see. It's all history <hes> <hes> against the b._c. Lions kind of an underdog team in themselves because of course the game was played in d._c. There's fifty five thousand fans you know no in their home stadium <hes> and again it's us against the world for baltimore because again the canadians you know you've been a a lot of those players that were on that baltimore. Were fell greats already played for a lot of those teams in the past considered an outsider. They didn't want their trophy going to another country three and you know then baltimore's playing against the you know <hes> china show themselves that we don't need the n._f._l. And dame comes down to the final a play <hes> there's a back and forth with the sadly f. for the b._c. Lions a field goal dan regulation and denies the cfl is our chance to <hes> win the grey cup in their opening season but still one of the best if not the greatest first season for any command team and north american sports history well and a couple of things so that that that game was on november sunday november twenty seven th of <hes> of nine hundred ninety four is also the first time i guess in history professional football history where the united states team and a canadian team were battling it out for professional championships championship supremacy looking at the stats though this nineteen ninety four season. It's also a pretty interesting to see that of the four teams based in the u._s. Us that season baltimore was by far the best of the what right i mean you had sacramento las vegas shreveport basically in the basements of their respective divisions. I guess i'm really interested to find out how much the cfl league and the canadian fans a. and players generally either appreciated or like the fact that baltimore was such an immediate and immediate contender versus. You know these says storied franchises in canada was it a i got to think it was a bit of love and hate <hes> at the same time yeah yeah i think so. I think that that's actor and i didn't really i guess maybe at the time because i was so ingrained in us against the n._f._l. I wanted to improve the n._f._l. We didn't need an either really understand. The cultural aspect of the canadians means owning this this this leak <hes> so i think there was a there was a respect level of the <hes> of the players on that team because he got a lot of them had a lot of success in the n._f._l. Prior to coming to baltimore and they were all in canadian team <hes> but i think there was again a bit of resentment big kind of skirted the rules they didn't need to have any there was no canadian players on the roster that season <hes> but i think also in retrospect and we can we'll delve in the little more i mean they understood that the league survive needed these teams in the league at that point in time you know the league was was on the verge of bankruptcy. <hes> you know the the the ownerships groups were <hes> very shaky at best. Ask in large part <hes> and then fusion of cass at these u._s. Expansion teams provided the league really help stabilize and for the long term so so the aftermath right so. I gotta think that <hes> the fan base was extraordinarily proud of this team in this first season <hes> pretty decent attendance. I'm sure the <hes> the media <hes> following both of games as well as the coverage of the team was was pretty decent and i think absolutely i'm looking average thirty seven thousand the fans a game. I how many tickets were sold is still versus giveaways and discount it. <hes> that's been debated for years. There was still a rabbit family also nineteen ninety-four <hes> middle of the season their first season then we other team in town dorrell's what happens in nineteen ninety-four before baseball strike and it's a baseball goes away but wouldn't you have you have no n._f._l. Major league baseball <hes> the turps and navy football. We're really relevant at that point in time so the a._f._l. Lers we're the only kenyan town so you know talk about lightning in a bottle and and everything converging just the right way and perfect timing you know you come into town and you know rabid rabid sports town and there's new sports teams but yet so you're getting all of the sports coverage so they got a lot more sports coverage than they may have gone and amy other point in baltimore with more sports history because again. They were the only game in town <hes> at that point in time. It's not a college against the baltimore is not really a college college town as far as sports go. <hes> maryland is always a struggle to attract the baltimore crowd and again navy's always done well through the years but <hes> they were in a you know they wanna team that they are now and it had been the last fifteen years or so so they weren't down period so really if you wanna do aw enjoy equality sports team at that point in time in baltimore it was the c._f. L. dollars that's that's very thing it's also to baltimore by. Far was the biggest market market of the four u._s. Team playing in the league to itself having been a former n._f._l. Franchise bright pride didn't hurt but that's that's an interesting confluence of events. Do why have this right did they. Actually i've seen it reported. You tell me you were sort of the ticket sales. Did they report a profit that first year. It's been debated you. Did i mean i. I think they did better financially than any other team. Exactly what those numbers were. You know i've heard different things so i wouldn't want you know again. I would would never saw the actual books. Reports made a profit. That was some reports that they had us. A small loss <hes> but they definitely did better financially than any other if i'll so <hes> at least in the u._s. i that that too is is fascinating and you have to look at the old world football league in the old u._s._f._l. Value a lot of people standing up and taking notice of that that story in such an early period of time and again they they did it right. There's too many times these a lot of these leagues expensive but it'd be the u._s._f._l. Or it'd be a world league or whatever they they went for cast. They went for names team. They went for you know they just went to try to you know get means going to roster instead of the right players what they did was. They built this team the right way. They knew they brought in a complimentary group of players. <hes> complimentary group of coaches <hes> and who understood the cfl game. Um i'm and was not afraid to mix up. The roster was not you know not afraid to look for the right players in the college game <hes> and you know they they. You know if you're looking to build a model franchise. <hes> this is it i mean from the front office to the ticket staff to the broadcasters the players <hes> you know including the baltimore colts marching band and this <hes> to including you know <hes> bringing the the the the old baltimore colts grades johnny united's and and let me more and and all of those folks who are still in town who embrace the team as well you know when when when they gave the okay johnny united says he we need to back these guys because again john united and art donovan anymore they could relate to these guys. It's you know they didn't make millions of dollars playing football they they made the same amount of money guys it so they could relate to these guys on a on a on a personal personal and professional level as well so again very unique time <hes> it's more than just say they talk about a team kind of catch lightning in a bottle on the field. There's so much going on around it. That makes story is fascinating than anything. You'll see in sports today today and more intrigued come right so you're mentioning obviously the cfl itself having issues and they're still more expansion and relocation in the u._s. U._s. to happen but so maybe you can set the table for what what transpires in in the ninety five season both for the team and its evolution into a new name as well as the league itself which comes up with a very interesting sort of lineup of how the teams are going to be arranged for the following season. Yeah i mean absolutely <hes> what happens. <hes> <hes> is <hes> they arranged you get rid of the east west divisions and they north south division <hes> which includes <music> <hes> <hes> all of <hes> u._s. teams and <hes> one division and all the canadian teams and then other <hes> las vegas folds old. They were a complete disaster. Sacramento moves to houston and becomes <hes> san antonio become the texans they play at the alamo down <hes> <hes> and then they bring in shreveport remains and then they bring in the birmingham barracudas and the memphis mad dogs right by the way shoe to and actually if you throw in a tony three historically <hes> sought after markets for pro football every time there's a new pro football league comes about right absolutely absolutely memphis in and <hes> birmingham were both u._s._f._l. Cities <hes> very strong high school and college in san antonio <hes> was again again the texas market <hes> with something that <hes> they were thriving to get into so it was another big market in town so so i think it's also interesting yet the canadian teams i guess essentially stacking up against the u._s. Team sort of as a that's an interesting dynamic considering that it almost virtually guarantees that there's going to be some u._s. Presence in the playoffs come along and and lo and behold guess what happens right here absolutely and i think the way it happened. Was i believe one of the teams from the canadians because there was an uneven balance with an once i five and the other's a one of the teams from the the lowest ranked team from the canadian division would make the playoffs in the <hes> on on east on the south side so set up for an interesting dynamic <hes> again. There's still huge. <hes> interest waned a little bit in baltimore the second year at first but i think that's because i was in year was still drawing over thirty thousand fans a game <hes> you're they had this mantra unfinished business. They knew how close they were. <hes> in baltimore brought back hurting much the same team <hes> you know they go and they add some players on that roster stor <hes> including <hes> carlos huertas their kicker <hes> they added chris wright who was a you know a star wide out among other players on that team so they they really kind of just added <hes> the complimentary permanent pieces to deal with the course they were rocking and rolling and ready to go with that point in time. Give us though a sense of of the name change that occurred in the off season as as well <hes> what what what was process there and why was spirits even like why did it matter at that point that he should have a name. I think it was it was kinda came to the fact act. I mean we're getting some pro bono legal help <hes> that was you know could go so far. <hes> they realized that this was despite that they couldn't win at that point <hes> and they knew that they had it couldn't go to they couldn't go a second season that name so they had a contest and they went with the stallion so still same logo same callers paint horse thing <hes> in but at the end of the day it went with the stallions have this right that that the <hes> the contest didn't finish until actually the season actually began so that so so technically they began the season still as the baltimore i guess football club and the stallions name after that <hes> after that poll kinda kicked in the second or third week of the season proper way i ever called it but i'm just double check on it but i i. I didn't recall it that way. <hes> so oh i know i was raised as the season he was in the pre season but it was definitely <hes> started the season. They were dalian's. Put it out there to our fans of the p the fans in baltimore screaming at their devices right now what the answer is to to me. That's fascinating stuff right because to be able to change a name sort of midstream and all that kind kind of stuff but stallions indeed was a voted upon nickname is at right back much like the ravens and <hes> vans into picking the ravens later later on santana concept for all intents and purposes though aside from obviously the play team continued it sort of just continue to pick up where where they had left off was the sense in baltimore that the fans and endured the team i mean i guess i guess the fact that they were doing so well but i juxtapose that with the n._f._l. Right which you mentioned was a bit holly. Kelly was a kind of a pyrrhic kind of haughtiness or victory so to speak or or was they. They feel like they're really. They're really onto something and this was just year. Two of it was the fans where you know look i think i think it was his this year too. I think there were still learning the n._f._c. fell and i just felt like they felt like there. Were some good teams and there was some bad teams. I mean look <hes> san. Antonio was a solid team. <hes> you know n._b._c. league with a solid team calgary with solid team. I mean you know so there. Were a lot of good teams on for like within sports. There were some really bad teams to <hes> and i think they i think there was a sense dance of well. We came so close last year. We wanna bring a championship back to back to baltimore and it was <hes> <hes> you know they were. <hes> you know a little blip on the schedule. You talk about that ninety five season. They had a stretch there where they lost lost two in a row <hes> <hes> but they played <hes> between <hes> july twenty ninth and august twelfth. That's about fourteen and they played one two three four four games in about fourteen days doing that in the n._f._l. And in the n._f._l. They did it with a thirty thirty. Seven minutes thirty six man roster so they lost two of those things where they had to go from. They played they won at birmingham. Thirty six to eight then they traveled three days later to go to edmonton where they won then four days later they played in calgary and then six days later after that they played at home against memphis so it was you know one two three four fifty two countries and fourteen days with the thirty six men roster and they they'll come out. You know winning two of those four games yeah and i think in the in the stands. It's also pretty amazing that they were still the second highest drawing team <hes> even though baseball had come back versus say ninety four can you maybe walk us through sort of the the final weeks of that season because not only were they a on the march and winning impressively <hes> the greek up that season but there was also a bunch of stuff going on behind the scenes it kind of ultimately made it truly a pyrrhic victory yeah absolutely anything things outside of football the orioles again <hes> we're still drawing forty seven hundred nineteen ninety five was the year cal ripken broke that streak twenty one thirty one st so royal games were packed you know during that time everyone was paying attention to cal ripken getting ready to break lou gehrig's record at that point in time <hes> and those stallions keep rocking and rolling that that you know at stretching august i mean they they go and they they've never lost another game <hes> and then including some some pretty big wins forty one fourteen thirteen at home august twenty six against the toronto argonauts or do you wanna fourteen again at the hamilton tiger cats <hes> among other big wins <hes> <hes> and you know there are still going <hes> and you know little do they know at this point in time <hes> that there are discussions between the governor served maryland at the time paris glendenning in our mood down cleveland and there's been some rebels again the rumblings in the n._f._l. Returning never stop. I think most baltimore fans felt like if we did get an n._f._l. Team we just have to teams with the people really thought that far ahead <hes> so so what happens <hes> they make the playoffs and nineteen ninety five the number one seed in <hes> in the league that year and you know they go and they <hes> they. They you really the top team in the league. I don't think anyone's gonna ready to stop them. They win that first game <hes> and next thing you know two days later they get a call <hes> the find out that the <hes> the browns are coming to baltimore for what does that really mean to ask right. They they play again they win their semi-final game against the winnipeg thirty twenty one against twenty one thousand and fans and memorial stadium <hes> again the november six win especially now that the browns are coming at that point in time <hes> it's it's like they're forgotten team. <hes> i mean it was almost it was all baltimore browns all the time that point ravens were still here where they weren't sure what they they were. Gonna call me at that point in time <hes> and they still have teams <hes> so hicks days later after the colts now or the the browns now through their coming to baltimore they beat the san antonio texans twenty one to eleven on the thirty thousand fans memorial stadium on that represented zanu the final game played <hes> at home of the stallions and the final game ever played between us-based c._f. L. and you know <hes> week after that they go <hes> only windy <hes> go cisco on and they just pretty very much destroy. The calgary stampede thirty seven to twenty and win like <hes> win the grey cup they come home and um nobody cares see. That's interesting so put this in context right so i think the i think the date was november. Six thousand nine hundred five is when art modell announces at a press conference camden yards that that they he signed a deal. This is in the middle of the n._f._l. Season i think they played nine games and they're basically going to move moved to baltimore ninety-six. That was still a messy messy is still yet to come but literally right in the middle of this playoff run that in the in the subsequent two weeks that you just mentioned the stallions basically march all the way to the grey cup championship and it's just it's amazing how i will say fickle but i mean what what fans sort of expect i mean. I i guess the fascination that they could be talking about okay. We're getting n._f._l. Team but but how could you sort of how could you not follow through with the fact that team that you've gotten your attention over the last year and a half two games away from winning the championship in in in that in that entity and i think what baltimore is a is a. It's a major league sports town but it's not los angeles. It's not new york <hes>. It's not chicago's not boston. There's only so much attention that can go around. <hes> and i think you know the n._f._l. Is king. I mean look if someone could would tell you again. You know the ravens went four twelve that first season if someone if if you polled all all the you know <hes> all the baltimore sports fans in towns if you want to feel championship <hes> football team or do you wanna foreign twelve n._f._l. Team and i would we'll tell you about ninety percent of them will tell you they would want to the foreign twelve n._f._l. Team because again the n._f._l. Came <hes> that doesn't mean they don't appreciate what the nicole with the ravens with the stallions dead but i think you know at that point. They were ready to move on <hes> and not everybody. There was a loyal group of fans that that that that greeted them at b._w._i. Airport that was read them for a small ceremony at the inner harbor <hes> the next today but after that <hes> you know look if the wasn't gonna work in baltimore. It wasn't working anywhere in the u._s. And you know this. I was ready to pull the plug on u._s. Expansion yeah and that to me is the ultimate sort of intrigue here where you know the the stallions stallions become the first and still only u._s. Champions of this canadian football league and literally the next season. It's all a blur of memory <hes> and interesting. You wonder had this baltimore <hes> or this. If that's a word or the absconding of or at least the announced discounting of the cleveland browns to baltimore you wonder what would happen if that hadn't happened or been announced with downs of cfl have gone for another year the u._s. or do you think it was already mobile. Hold on you're too old. Baltimore would've around. I think through san antonio would've stuck around own board of movie of hobbled wanted to other teams. <hes> you know in different markets <hes> there was talk walkabout houston getting a team because of them losing the oilers and a couple other teams that weren't cities were in the mix. It travelling could have held on i. I still don't think it would've lasted long because again with the n._f._l. Really wanted to that point in time. <hes> you know they. They talked about expansion into the u._s. Were they really wondering what the expansion fees and what those expansion fees was was basically sure up all of the failing as teens <hes> and help them stabilize the lead league so you know in that regards while the stallions the teams are pretty much a failure in in a blitz on the cfl <hes> <hes> mystery books <hes> they really helped keep the league going so explain me a bit about how the end came out because is <hes> it sounds to me like sparrows was <hes> you know trying to at least fine. Maybe another u._s. Port of call for this team if baltimore two more was not going to be the place and try to keep on the in the u._s. There was there was an effort to kind of save the stallions <hes> you know and i think there and i talked to fan <hes> people in their ticket booth you know it's in the book that tried to sell twenty thousand this new for save our stallions <hes> attempt but it just wasn't enough advertising is in dollars in baltimore baltimore. You know can't support three major sports leagues and the stadiums wouldn't work <hes> you know for with the different field configurations for n._f._l. And cfl team there's too much there would be too much overlap in the seasons and this wasn't gonna work here in baltimore with more when when the n._f._l. Came back he looked virginia. He looked at houston <hes> and then you get in the league just decided that they weren't gonna most of the other teams <hes> u._s. Teams that are just not doing this anymore for not gonna. They're not going to be a u._s. Teams they folded and pretty much all decided. We're gonna fold all the teams <hes> <hes> at that point in time. <hes> spirits team again with was viable. There's still viable franchise so with the n._f._l. Did was they moved. They folded ended the baltimore team and they moved <hes> the remnants of the stallions to montreal and renamed the alouette which had been team in existence for forty the years before folding about ten years prior so kind of rebirth so you know part of this franchise is legacy is at a profit football back the baltimore and then abroad football back to montreal <hes> in that regard and and <hes> you know montreal and again when they were then then required to follow the canadian born roster rules <hes> some of the players many of the players stayed with <hes> they all wet and jim pop the don matthews went to ended up being coach in toronto players toronto with over there <hes> and mantra offer many years to come you know became one of the model franchises if i won you know multiple championships advanced <hes> several others <hes> and we're really you know again. That legacy kind of lived on their through montreal so that to me is the height of irony for the story. Maybe it's the way we can sort of <hes>. Put a nice shiny bow on on this conversation the story you you basically sort of hit hit the nail right on the head right here. Here's a franchise is that has essentially been lost to history literally and figuratively that arguably convinced or at least on some level all made the case for baltimore to yet again. Get a top tier n._f._l. Football and <hes> also resulted in the return of one of the more sort of a legacy franchises in the cfl with the rebirth of the of the alouette yet this team. I guess it's officially doesn't have any place <hes> for its history to be claimed right. It doesn't really live with the alouette doesn't live in baltimore. There is no it's kind of not only a footnote but it doesn't. There's no historical lineage. That's official for this team. Is there no correct and i mean they live on and they live on. I think who the legacy they built through montreal. They live legacy of the fans here in baltimore. <hes> there was a twenty year reunion several years ago here in town that the players kind of were able to kind of put a little bit of closure on it and they also live in the legacy of look the don matthews cfl hall of famer even my pringle greatest running back and cfl history crazy am cfl hall of famer alford swag peyton one of the greatest defensive players and see if they'll history sons now plays in the n._b._a. <hes> you know and several other players will nineteen went on to <hes> <hes> to greatness jim popp general manager in probably the greatest eighty sarah manager and cfl history <hes> sharp porn offensive line and went on to play with the raiders and the redskins josh miller punch or went on to win a super bowl with patriots hatred and the n._f._l. <hes> so you know they <hes> have a a a legacy here. That's strong paulie desta. The great baseball executive was an intern for the cfl stallions <hes> so there is <hes>. There's a legacy there. It's it's not in the history books but their impact in professional sports here in baltimore and in canada. <hes> is one that that shouldn't be forgotton. Ah now i think it's an amazing store and this is this is a tailor made for this little silly show that we do <hes> it's just they're just these are stories and memories emory's of of of the past that you know sadly sort of get swept under the various rugs and rubble of of what used to be and <hes> <hes> and frankly you know <hes> get forgotten and door misunderstood as the years roll on and you know i think it's really important to kind of sort of circle oracle around some of these things especially when to your point there is lots of different sort of layers of legacy. I mean nappy sort of direct to indoor <hes> but you know we're talking about. People and players and situations were people come together and fans right so for those sort of magic moments in time right you know none of us has guaranteed <hes> all of those things in our lifetimes right but but you know when the things come together when the the planets do align and situations sort of come about i mean this was a pretty interesting time in baltimore and in pro football and canadian football and in american football history yeah absolutely yeah. I mean this thing with everything that had to come together at just the right time for this to work. You know you had the colts. You had the the n._f._l. Baltimore you had expansion teams go to to different cities. You had the expansion <hes>. Don't get the death of the world football league which allowed sacramento coming your earlier. <hes> you had <hes> <hes> you know you had the the baseball strike which allowed there to be greater attention <hes> to <hes> game in town so all of these things had to come together at at the same time for this to work and this two year window here in baltimore <hes> again. I can't imagine this working. Today couldn't imagine working ten years before it happened and and i can't imagine it working at any other point in in professional sports history i mean it's such a unique story. <hes> and it's it's different than anything meeting. They'll ever see him and they had all the elements of great sports story. <hes> you know if you're a true sports fan. If you love sports you love football. You're gonna love this this book. You're gonna love this. <hes> you know whether this story because i don't think you need to be a fan <hes> to appreciate it opened. I appreciate sports <hes> and everything that sports is meant to be triumph tragedy thrill of victory the agony of defeat as they used to say <hes> you know <hes> community <hes> heartbreak triumph. I mean everything you want. In a sports stories wrapped up in a bow in this two year window all right one more question and let you promote. Has there been any effort any interest any pursuit by anybody anybody to claim the legacy or memorialize the records were many hall of fame or or have it domiciled somewhere idea put it can't be the pro football hall of fame ca can the cfl kind of maybe officially recognize you. You know this part of history that kind of stuff. I'm sure desire not to hold on does recognize those players and his time baltimore <hes> you recognize them. They are interested buffs although don't records that in the with the most wins the baltimore stallions. They still think that they copy. Their name is the one that great god. There's players are still in the hall of foam here. In baltimore there from the collect a <hes> there are three things that <hes> deserve their histories the third of drives that are included in the book but you know jean one jerseys are still popping up all over the place <hes> trading cars out there there are <hes> bill and i got up possession of a baltimore cope off program for the first team that doesn't trash out you know the restaurant there on youtube and internet and so forth was not enough fissile home but another way all right while i <hes> one of those ways is preservation is <hes> this book so give our audience <hes> a bit of a <hes> timeline about <hes> the books availability both is now and <hes> later this year because i'm sure i'm not the only one that wants to get a copy only payable online preorder than on amazon. John mclaughlin publishing's website <hes> energy roll. We'll go pedal of autumn estonians. <hes> whou blue or you free in history of fell champion um you can find the right there. <hes> online <hes> right there <hes> independent in november <hes> and again it's like it should be available where barnes and noble when wherever books are sold all all right so preorder <hes> early and often friends <hes> and do you anticipate. I gotta think there's gonna be there's some natural. Promotional opportunities not only in baltimore more but maybe elsewhere in the n._f._l. Sorta footprint and door. I i don't know what do you think well now. I've been out there again. I've been out there a promoting this on social media already <hes> working with former executives and players and hoping to have an fans trying to organize some sort of <hes> event whether they're panel discussion <hes> there'll be some book signings and i'm still in the works with <hes> and again book <hes> it's unique in over fifty interviews of players fans coaches executives broadcasters and story in <hes>. It's got thousands of original pictures on the highway <hes> there two years here in baltimore <hes> and really the the captures this sawyer <hes> again. I think really kind of frame the book it's not just the two years i would say again it kind of starts the day that the coal town and it ends the day that the ravens arrive and how looks at this team's legacy <hes> and so we're going to be out there promoting it <hes> and i know i had a lot of interest from answer facebook groups that are very upset have expressed interest in it. There are <hes> baltimore stallions facebook facebook groups out there that are <hes> have been very helpful with me in researching this book and wanted to see their story told for a long time <hes> again. Why do people tend to support this team <hes> that that self played by the n._f._l. And felt loyal to the stallions and win win win win win this down when you know when the n._f._l. Police building museum <hes> stallions came here and said we love you. We want to bring football back to baltimore and those earth fans. Stay true to that team. Even to this day well ron. This has been fantastic. I <hes> i look forward to sharing this episode and <hes> you know let's also stay in touch such as the the months roll on because you know inevitably. Were you know part of my little. <hes> a grand plan over time to do some live events and kind of you know. They've been a little bit more directly. Interviewing a various folks who are more directly involved in some of these teams. We've done a bit of it but i like you know a couple of live events and so i can imagine this could easily fit into to being one of those. I can imagine you being able to have a conversation with some former players and or executives -secutive and stuff i could. I wanna promote for you but i i can imagine there's some some interesting events that could sorta tie into all this especially in baltimore and <hes> you you know maybe maybe some ideas could be could be had over over the months and a happy to trade notes with the ever interested in doing that yeah absolutely so i i've been passionate about out this <hes> this story i've been trying to get to <hes> prints <hes> for for more than a decade so <hes> the fact that we're just about there <hes> it's been a labor of love <hes> you know and it was a hard time trying to explain publishers what this story was and they didn't get get it. We kind of had to be there and the folks that were there. They see what happened. They see what they went through. I remember crying. You know the day that the coal flatter. I remember crying the day that they told us you know that we weren't good enough for the n._f._l. I remember being excited when his group came in and i remember being upset when they left and you know again. I just think that you know if you enjoy sports are gonna love this story. Yes it's arguably the football team that <hes> time forgotten but it's not the only one but <hes> it's it's. It's probably the most successful one that most people. I think even a baltimore may have a tough time remembering but say it to me. This is exactly why we do these shows and i thank ron for <hes> for failing us with this story. The book that ron <unk> has penned is called the baltimore stallions the brief brilliant history of the cfl champion franchise the book does not come out until november of this year a couple of months from that but you can indeed preorder it and we encourage you to do so on our website and good seats still dot com just search up this episode. I think it's number one twenty four featuring rod snyder and you'll find a link conveniently to this book on amazon. Get it preordered. Get it into your bookshelf for your virtual <hes> delivery system to make sure that you get to be the first one block to to have a copy. <hes> give us some shackles of love as you do so we'll definitely <hes> bring this back to your attention back in november when it's actually after released but again the book is called the baltimore stallions the brief brilliant history of the cfl champion franchise again available for preorder right now and has published by our friends at mcfarland publishing and again good seats still available dot com. That's the locus for everything about this. Show not only to to order books and stuff but literally to see every and listen to download every episode that we've done so far from the last two plus years you'll find all all of our old episodes you'll see some great imagery there and you'll see links to books and other media that we feature <hes> in our conversations all their good seats still available dot com tom you can click on the e mail links and email newsletter. If you wanna do that you'll see. All of our social. Media feeds there including twitter and facebook and instagram. You'll see all those links alexa. Just go there and check it all out and and again we appreciate when you do so at good seats still available dot com also want to say thank you of course a tip the proverbial digital at to our friend jerry payne who painstakingly yet it puts our pieces together and we thank him tremendously for yet again doing so despite all the odds against he of course at pod fly productions find out more about them at pod fly dot net all right. I wish you a tremendous week ahead and we leave you now with yes a theme song baltimore cfl team even the year before they were known as the stallions had a theme james song and it was done in conjunction with the television station in baltimore that carried the bulk of their home games w m._a._r._t._a. v news channel two and we leave you now with the semi-official. I think baltimore cfl football theme song until next week a pleasant ado in cenex week leaks ticket windows now closed by the brand rocket in the aca channel statue mattie dieting fail yeah eh yeah he does.