Louisianas Rep. Richmond: We need ventilators and need them now

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Today's kind of getting worse and worse. We had to get a refrigerated truck to store the bodies of patients who are dying we are right now scrambling to try to get a few additional ventilators leers in various offices from the president to the head of health and hospitals. Saying things. Like we're GONNA be fine. Everything's fine and from our perspective. Everything is not fine. I don't have the support that I need and even just the materials that I need physically to take care of my patients and it's it's America and we're supposed to be a first world country good morning and welcome to a. m. joy this week Colleen Smith and emergency medical technician in Elmhurst hospital in Queens invited the New York Times to see for themselves. Just how overwhelmed. She and her colleagues are as a result of the corona virus outbreak. It's one of the hardest hit locations in New York City as well as it's located in Queens which happens to be the home town of Donald Trump this headline by our colleagues at W. NBC underscores the extent of the nightmare at Elmhurst hospital on Wednesday. Thirteen people who tested positive for Kobe. Nineteen died there and Bryce sunrise Thursday. The line for people waiting to be tested stretched down the block queens now accounts for the most cases in the city with more than eight thousand as well as the most deaths of any of the five boroughs. One hundred twenty four people have died. Their New York City remains the epicenter for now of the Global Colbert. Nineteen pandemic with more than twenty six thousand cases. In New York State. Overall there are now nearly forty five thousand people who've tested positive for coping nineteen this is the highest of any state by far in five hundred in nineteen people have died we now add another daunting milestone. The United States now has the most Kobe nineteen cases in the world after surpassing the one hundred thousand mark last night with sixteen hundred and five deaths as Hillary Clinton tweeted yesterday. Donald Trump did promise America first. And Yeah when it comes to the most cases in the entire world we are. Unfortunately I governor's throughout the country. Meanwhile particularly New York's Andrew Cuomo continue to plead with the trump administration for help in getting more ventilators and other emergency medical supplies while Donald trump spins his time. Eating up all of our afternoon. Airtime with these supposed press conferences and complaining. Governors are not being nice enough to him. Including the governor of Michigan Gweat Gretchen. Whitmer who says that vendors have been told not to send supplies that are desperately needed to her State and here is what Donald Trump said about the plea from his home state again. The hardest hit state in the nation with this request for thirty thousand desperately needed ventilators. Listen to what he said. New York is a bigger deal. But it's GonNa go also but I have a feeling that A Lotta the numbers that are being set in some areas. They're just bigger than they're going to be. I don't believe you need forty thousand or thirty thousand ventilators you two major hospitals. Sometimes they'll have to ventilators now all of a sudden they're saying can we order thirty thousand ventilators? Well maybe trump is just a little bit mad. That governor Cuomo has become a kind of acting president providing the leadership but Donald Trump clearly is not capable of. I said to the White House. Send us the equipment that we need. Send us the personnel is soon as we get. Past are critical moment. We will redeploy that equipment and personnel to the next hot spot and I will personally guarantee it and personally manage it. So if you send us fifteen thousand ventilators and then after our curve Los Angeles needs fifteen thousand ventilators. We can take the equipment from here. We can take the personnel from here. We can take the lessons from here joining me now. Is Joseph Fair? Msnbc science contributor. He's a Baramulla gist and epidemiologist Andy. Slavic former acting administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and Dr Kavita Patel. Msnbc medical contributor a primary care physician and former policy adviser in the Obama Administration. They over being here. I'm GonNa go to you first Joseph Fair because I know that you went through a lot of the nightmare similar to this during the Ebola outbreak. And you were in Congo dealing with us. Just walk me through how this should work versus the way it's working. This Brooklyn Hospital Center is reporting. This is from the New York Times. More than half a dozen hospital workers have contracted the virus and close to fifty staff members were potentially exposed by just one patient the hospitals. I who developed symptoms after being in the ICU for different medical problem. According to hospital leaders some of them have been in quarantine. Most worrisome at the start of the week to hospital staff members were receiving intensive care themselves. It feels one employee. Said like an invisible war talk about how this should have been working because you have people who may be coming to the hospital for something else. A heart attack a severe flu something else. And then they're exposed and also potentially exposing other people. How should this be working to try to protect people who are not exposed? Also hospital workers. Well I think the dramatic irony of all of this is. I've spent most of my career responding to outbreaks around the world not just Bala but others flu et Cetera and we have a standard protocol that starts with diagnostics. I roll out diagnostics everywhere. Because that's how we determine who needs to be isolated and who needs to seek care. We pay people to stay at home to keep them socially distanced we issue federal mandates in whatever country were and we. We advised that country to issue a federal or countrywide mandate to lock everyone down. We give them money immediately to stay at home because we know that they need food and supplies and we only urge those that really have the symptoms to come in for care in this case. It's a bit different just because we're urging people not to come to the ers for example just because you're exposing everyone else in the Er is but we don't have a choice at this point in time because there's no dedicated facility so what we would do in cases in other cases of outbreaks. We build those Phil Hospitals. I and that's where we send the patient so we can keep them away from the normal sick people so that they don't contract the disease themselves because they're already in high risk category just being hospitalized that makes sense so basically you would block out emergency rooms and traditional hospitals for somebody who thinks they're appendix is burst or had a heart attack or stroke. They should be going there and field. Hospitals are where everyone who even suspects. They might have Kobe. Nineteen or going. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely that's we spend the majority of our money on messaging building those field hospitals diagnostics paying people to stay home down. So that we can ensure social distancing is happening. And we try to do that. You know maybe not a country wide level if it's localized but in this case it would need to be a country level and we do know that. New York is setting up that kind of field hospital. The Jab at center is being converted for those who are in New York that is precisely what the governor of New York is doing. I think they are fighting as hard as they possibly can to catch up and try to get ahead of this thing let me go to Dr Patel This is another story. This is from the Washington Post. A New York Hospital. Desperate for ventilators is treating patients on a device intended for one. Here's a bit of it and I know that you know this doctor Dr Palladino from Suny downstate. Who's actually profiled in this piece? And says he used this method in two thousand eight when he was working in. Las Vegas The New York hospital that they're referring to his columbia-presbyterian in Manhattan. So is this what we're down to? Because they're not an ventilators essentially they're having to hook two people up to one bene- later this makes. This seems crazy to me but how many people theoretically could be treated on one ventilator at one time right joy and Dr Palino's colleague who I knew and she actually did kind of now a very well frequented youtube video that she did in the aftermath of kind of the Vegas shootings to actually illustrate a trauma setting. And that's really what it was used for how to set up to people on one ventilator. It's now being used not just in New York. It's actually being used right now in Michigan and in other hot spots around the country figure question of how many people can you use on one ventilator to be honest it it's all being made up at the last minute it's not like there's a clinical protocol that tells you yes go ahead in cove in nineteen and set up to two one and so let me just stress when you hear the administration and specifically the president say that this is overblown or New York? Does it need all of this? Honestly let him go ahead and try to find the protective gear to go and himself look at what's happening on the ground and just to add to joy you've talked about this in other settings we've got a disparities issue one borough compared to the other and that's revealing the cracks and the populations that these hospitals are trying to serve. They are desperate for some sort of help. And that's where we need assistance today and let me say with you Dr Patel be let me stay with you Dr Patel there's also a nother story in the Washington Post that you're having hospitals considering universal. Dnr Do not resuscitate orders for Corona virus patients. The worry that all hand responses may expose doctors and nurses to infection prompts debate about prioritizing the survival of or the one these are draconian terrifying things that we're hearing coming out of hospitals. Is this something that you've heard of. Before no joy none of this has ever been heard of before and just to kind of level set any of these scenarios any of these scenarios kind of would be unprecedented and if a doctor even mentioned the idea of a universal blanket. Do not resuscitate might be grounds for dismissing that doctor from practicing. But that's what it's come to an end by the way all my colleagues that are working on these hospitals in the front line have told me that they are actually desperate for some sort of guidance. Because they do not want to be the ones making decisions for other people and in particular all these patients. There's no family member. There's nobody there to hold their hand. If they're dying they're all they're doing what they can in isolation enjoy just even paint a more grim picture. They're doing a lot of procedures through the equivalent of Saran wrap. I mean. That's what's happening around the country. We have such little protective equipment getting to these doctors and nurses and therapists that they're trying to stitch together. What they can so make you miss about ventilators and focusing something that is absolutely not true is yet again another hoax by the president that called this a hoax in the first place. Yeah I'm GonNa to bring in a moment I wanna go back to Joseph Air for just one moment because the other issue and I talked to you about this in your ear about in thirty rock so I know you know. I'm obsessed with this idea that we're still not testing enough people. The idea is that if we were mass testing could delineate who is potentially exposed. Who's not you could get more data. We're still not doing it. This is from Arizona California Maryland about the shortage of testing supplies an Arizona representative. Greg Stanton says the test kit shortage Could End Corona virus screening. California hospital is running dangerously low on swabs for virus testing highlighting yet another obstacle that we're facing in terms of testing. I'm just so scared. Headline as more marylanders secrets tests shortages of kits rattle. The sick. I am frustrated and I think a lot of people that are covering us are frustrated that we simply cannot test enough people and I confused as to how a first world country cannot rollout enough tests to match the number of humans that live in this country. I don't get it. Can you explain it well? We didn't engage the private sector early enough on and we are where we are. They've been engaged now and they're ramping. Up Quickly Abbott. Just yesterday released that. They have a new fifteen minute tests. That could be a game changer. In this but of course it's GonNa take time for them to ramp up their supplies and one test is not the same as all of the tests. So each of these individual companies that are committing their individual tests will have to be approved. There's the test for acutely. Are you acutely ill. Which is the SWAB test? And there's even problems with the supply chain swabs themselves. I had colleagues in. The industry told me that they can't import swabs from China because it is under the new trade restrictions that we implemented last year on the type of cotton being used so these are regular cotton swabs. But we can't import them. Due to trade restrictions so every part of the testing is becoming complicated everything from trade restrictions to ramping up to getting it through the FDA so engaging them late put us really behind but now that they are engaged slits hope that at least that that's a silver lining that they'll be able to ramp up the testing past enough to get nationwide we are seeing shortages everywhere so we have actually absolutely no idea where we are on the curve or how steep that curve is right now when we talk about flattening the curve. Okay so I wanted to ask him Andy. Slavic hold on some little bit of a technical things going on. But I do have some questions for you andy. So let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll have Andy Slava. Join this conversation to just give us one minute. Here's some commercials. We'll be right back. Eric Worth says China did a lot. Dale in it was good for the. Oh why CAN'T MISSISSIPPI? Well I will tell you that. Mississippi is never going to be China. Grew make the decisions that are in the best interest of Mississippi and Mississippi Governor Taint res. It's just one representation of an apparent hesitancy among red states to implement strict measures to slow the spread of Corona Virus Governor Reeves. This week signed an executive order aimed at limiting physical interaction but which still declared most businesses in the state to be essential and so really able to remain open so far blue states like New York. I've been the hardest hit but cases in the rest of the country are rising fast such as in New Orleans Louisiana where the number of cases and fatalities has skyrocketed some are pointing to the Mardi Gras festival season. As a reason for that more than a million people gathered in the city over the weeks leading up to Mardi Gras Day on February Twenty Fifth Democratic Congressman Benny Thompson of Mississippi and Democratic Congressman. Cedric Richmond of Louisiana. Thank you both congressman for being here Carbon Thompson. I'm going to start with you. I have you been in communication with your state's governor about this resistance on his part to close the state down to slow the spread of the virus. Well we've sent the governor letter sharing with him. What concerns about his statement as well as what my office as chair of the House Homeland Security Committee can offer him one of the things joy that everybody will tell you that in this time of crisis. Accuracy and transparency is important. So what we're trying to say to governor you have to be truthful You have to make sure that what you say doesn't create a situation that's worse so I'm optimistic. He's a new governor and every now and then new people make mistakes so I'm looking forward to him. Providing a little more definition to what is executive orders mean but the thing is it seems that ideology is trumping to to use the term. Sort of logic right. I mean you've had the Governor Mississippi. Say Well we're not going to be China and taking an ideological approach to this sort of the idea right. He's sort of taking a libertarian. Approach to saying well should shut down businesses but people's lives are at stake at what point? How much time does he get to have? And how many people are going to die in the meantime think again? He's new. This is his first time being in a crisis like this. I hope he's consulting with experts on what he should be doing. And isolation is important. You have to separate people all of the health experts saying we have to do it. So I'm looking forward to him stepping up and saying look as your governor. We can do better. I'm going to do better. I'm not going to override. Local mayors and local supervisors and what they do. I'm going to work with them but I'll provide the leadership. I'm not getting into philosophical. Law Will China other countries. If you look at what South Korea did they did a wonderful job again their hands around it but what the leadership in that country did was they locked down the country so that people could not move around and so what we're going to have to do here in. Mississippi is something similar but gun shops and a lot of other places not necessarily businesses that we need to have carson returned because it it it seems that we are speeding toward a red state blue state dichotomy in terms of being able to control the spread of covert one thousand nine. We're blue states are being very aggressive. Even some with Republican governors like Maryland Even some purple states like Ohio being being very aggressive about trying to implement the logical that what scientists say needs to be done and you have a lot of red states and I'm thinking you know not just Louisiana but Florida Texas and other red states that are saying we're not GONNA do it. The problem with that is we're one country where people can travel from one state to another and some of these states in the south also have not expanded Medicaid. They don't necessarily have the strongest healthcare systems and these strongest sort of systems for making sure that people who are poor are ensured. Are you concerned that there is going to be this breakdown? I mean Mardi gras still happened in the midst of pandemic. Well let me just say this about Mardi Gras. There were no red flags. There were no warning signs for our mayor. Any others to see and look. I look forward to the day when we get past this as a country and then we can start congressional hearing so that we can find out who had what information win in who they gave that information to. But now's not the time to do that We have to get past it. I believe that Although we're red-state my Democratic governor my mayor and my other parish presidents are doing incredible job under very difficult circumstances and showing real leadership leadership is not about making the popular decision. It's about making the necessary decision and so they're letting science dictate what they do and I would just hope that Other governors would follow. I mean Jackson Mississippi where the capital of Mississippi is only two and a half hours away from our capitol in Baton Rouge. Those governors should be talking whatever they do affects what we do. And what are people do affects? What happens to them? So we really should be better coordinated. And let me just ask you Congressman Richmond is Louisiana. And you're right. There is a democratic governor has been elected there has medicaid been expanded in Louisiana yes Medicaid has expanded and we've been making substantial gains in healthcare but I will tell you that this is sitting as hard If you look at Our deaths and I believe the number death we have his one hundred nineteen a death but if you look at our children living in poverty twenty eight percent if you look at obesity. Thirty six percent of the people in the state if you look at diabetes and then if you look at the people who have died from this Corona virus You will see that. Forty one percent of them had diabetes Thirty one percent of them had a kidney disease and only five percent of them didn't have any underlying conditions so we really need to focus on The health outcomes of everybody but the thing I will say is that we need ventilators. We need ventilators. We need ventilators and we need them now. And so That's the plea making and if your health professionals out there You can go to Lava Dot D. H. Dot Louisiana Dot Gov and Sign Up Delta will fly you here for free if you willing to volunteer so nurse respiratory therapists anybody else. We need all hands on deck right and we will not be divided as a country We we beat everything But we'RE GONNA. I'll have to come together. Do It in Congressman Thompson. The the challenge however is in a state like Mississippi that has not expanded The affordable care act has not expanded Medicaid Whose government is extremely conservative when it comes to spending on the poor And which has the largest percentage of African Americans in the country by population as well as the largest percentage of poor people in your state. Sir How do you move a government? That won't move on healthcare even before a pandemic to change its mind and behave differently toward its struggling citizens and toward its citizens of color and There are a lot of white folks down there as well. So how do you change? That government's mind if a pandemic isn't changing their mind. Well there's no question about joy we have a problem. I hope leaders in this state will address it Forthrightly to be honest with you. We did not accept Medicaid expansion. One of the problems we'll have with this pandemic is even if you are identified. There are no president coverage for those persons who are hospitalized. We'll pay for the test but that's all so if you WanNa those unfortunate persons you have to pay your bill so hopefully in the cares package that we passed in Congress yesterday. Some of the money will come. But you know in this time congressman. Richmond is right. This was a whole of government approach. All of us have to work together. And hopefully at the end of this pandemic Cooler heads will prevail. One of the things I plan to offer is just like we did. In the advent of nine eleven we will have to come back and look at this pandemic and see what we did right and see what we did wrong so if in fact it ever happens again. We will have the blueprint on how to address it Carson Midday Thompson and Cedric Richmond. Thank you both for being here. Really appreciate both of you and stay safe out there and coming up. We'll tell you what the two point two trillion dollar economic rescue bill means to you and your family. The bill that was put on the Ford last Saturday by Senator. Mcconnell was a corporation corporate down. Bill trickled down as usual. Would it turned into was a bubble up workers first legislation workers and families I? They never thought they would be supporting the provisions that are in the bill that relate to unemployment insurance and how it is expand it in so many ways the bill was Ju Jitsu. We just took bill and turn it around on Friday. Congress passed a historic two point two trillion dollars economic rescue bill aimed at putting a floor under the millions of Americans who've been furloughed laid off or lost freelance in Gig work during the pandemic. So what's in the bill? Well I the good news. The Democrats successfully managed to thwart some of the Republicans attempts at diverting eight away from workers and toward mega corporations. So almost all adults will receive a one time payment of twelve hundred dollars with an additional five hundred dollars each per child and those have been laid off or received monthly employment insurance payments which have been plus up with an additional six hundred dollars per week on top of what you would normally receive for most states and there'll be a much-needed oversight committee to monitor the staggering five hundred billion dollar assistance program to the country's largest employers which Republicans and Treasury Secretary. Steve mnuchin insisted on as the White House negotiator. The oversight is designed to ensure that the money benefits workers and is not diverted to corporate favorites like stock buybacks to boost the company's share price and fat juicy. Bonuses to the CEOS. So that's good news well now the bad news. Republicans still found a way to get their agenda into the relief report. The leaf effort last week. Department of Labor announced that they are instituting three-month exemption in waiver to some affirmative action obligations in certain federal contracts like construction. Also it's hard for most Americans to swallow the idea of five hundred billion dollar corporate bail out at all when according to the two thousand eighteen. Us Small Business Administration a whopping ninety nine point. Nine percent of all businesses qualify as small businesses not corporate giants and. We should be clear that this bill is not a stimulus bill. So that's not designed to stimulate the economy by encouraging you to go and spend money. It's designed to keep the economy from falling off a cliff. The proper term for is an economic rescue bill and among those not being rescued cruise ship companies. Which are often incorporated in other countries to avoid taxes but never fear. Donald Trump is still donald trump and on Thursday. He actually encourage companies to circumvent that little loophole by registering their little headquarters in the US. So they could go up some of that. Sweet sweet bailout. Cash donations discuss the details. Steph hairs the forming acting secretary of Labor in the Obama Administration and said. Let's go through the bill on the on the positive side how do workers who have been displaced actually get the money Is it just explain the difference between the lump sum check and the monthly checks right so the first of all good morning joy The morning check from the treasury should simply arrive everybody who has filed a tax return and people who are on social security who have not filed a tax return. The IRS already has your income information so if your income is below ninety nine thousand dollars a year. You should receive a check sometime in the next few weeks secretary. Mnuchin says it'll just be a couple of weeks. I think it's going to be a little longer than that or direct deposit even longer than that protects. The monthly unemployment checks require you to file with your State Unemployment Insurance System. So you need to try to be patient. Wait for the website to work. Wait online at a safe distance at the unemployment office file. Unemployment claim you'll need to give them a pay stub or a W. Two form showing how much earning and then they will process that. And then you will get your plus stop unemployment insurance benefits. They added six hundred dollars every unemployment. Check they also expanded the group of people who can get unemployment insurance so GIG. Economy workers freelancers other independent contractors. Self employed. People can now get it. That's very very very good. News but U unemployment unemployment insurance system was hit with a soon Nami of claims. So please be patient. Yeah and that's a good point because I'm thinking a lot of people are trying to get on and the system is crashing or they're not getting through on the phones to just be patient there being backlogged enslow so just to reiterate because I know a lot of freelance employees. A lot of the people who do our hair and makeup in this business. They're not doing it now. Obviously but those folks are freelancers. People who drive lift people drive Uber. People who work a ten ninety nine and paint houses? You're saying they also will be able to collect the unemployment insurance part of it and the lump sum. Yes all get a lump sum but very important in order to get that lump sum. Check what I'm calling stimulus checks. I know you're not using that phrase but the those checks will come to people if they have filed tax returns in two thousand eighteen or two thousand nineteen. So if you haven't got your tax return and go ahead and file it just a ten forty Ez get it in there so that they will have the information and by the way opt into direct deposit the Democrats stand up. Sorry go ahead. No I was just GonNa say you're you're exactly right in praising Speaker Pelosi and leader Chuck Schumer for the amazing job. They did in transforming gigantic corporate giveaway bill into a workers first bill and one of the ways they did that was to expand the group of people who are eligible for unemployment assistance. They created a new program called pandemic unemployment assistance. That will go to those people you were talking about. The independent contractors the freelancers self employed people people who are working in the GIG economy. That's critically important because those people have been left out really since the beginning of the unemployment system yeah absolutely Bernie. Sanders had an epic rant on the floor where he was doing his arm waving and yelling. And I think quite rightly at Republicans who were aghast that you know people who are unemployed who are lower income working folks would get like a tiny bit of extra money. You know what I mean. But they didn't mind giving five hundred billion dollars to these big corporations. Let's talk about that bailout because it bothers a lot of us a lot of folks out there that watch. This show bothers me personally. I've been reading about it on twitter. Sorry Boston's been ranting about it. These companies McDonald's Walmart Amazon. A lot of these companies. Don't even pay taxes. They got a giant. GimMe a more than a trillion dollars on from tax. Break that Donald Trump's shove through with Ryan what Paul Ryan was speaker. They got the money. I struggled to understand why they can't use the money. They banked at the time to save themselves. Why are they back with their hands out? How can it makes sense that they should get more money and get more money than small businesses get collectively as another bailout? I struggled to understand that. Can you explain it? I'm not going to defend it. I'm simply going to try and explain the logic and again how a Senate and House Democrats made a bad situation better. They were successful in conditioning. The receipt of that money on workers getting payroll checks burst so in order for corporation to be able to take money either under the big business bailout that five hundred billion dollar pot you were talking about or for small businesses to get their money in the three hundred and seventy seven billion dollar small business loan facility? They're being very very strongly incentivized to keep people on their payrolls. Now that's important because as I said we've got sue. Nami of unemployment claims coming in because people are just being shut out of jobs because their businesses are closing down if we can help their business to stay open and keep those workers on their payrolls required that they keep those workers on their payrolls. The economic situation is going to be a lot better because even in the best of circumstances unemployment insurance is only temporary. We WanNA keep on their paychecks as long as we possibly can so good for Schumer good proposing that they got that in there but I share your concern that this is going to be a massive giveaway to some of the wealthiest corporations in the world. Some of them are in truly dire straits. But maybe they shouldn't have done those stock buybacks. They did after the tax cut. The president trump callow a man. You get not a Sunday but I'm GonNa give you a Hallelujah. Let's talk about The this due to let's do the airlines. I and by the way I have a suggestion for an oversight board to oversee who gets that money I'm going to suggest Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders as the two senators and three house members. Adam Schiff Val demings because yes she used to be police so she could take what you're doing and Katie Porter. That's my panel. You guys pick your own Sort of Favorite panel. Let's talk about the airlines because the flight attendants union flight attendants union. We've had the head of the flight attendants union on this show. She's been a lot of Lawrence O'Donnell they actually worked at a pretty good deal. Can you explain it now? The airlines will get bailed out but there are very big caveat on that bail at that are going to be really good not just for flight attendants but for baggage handlers and cleaners as well right so let me just say. This is the difference between having a union in America and not having a union in America. And let me say it helps a lot have a great union leader like Sara Nelson who leads the flight attendants union. What they've done is. They've negotiated that that money is not merely going to go to the airlines. Who are going to be required to keep as much staff as they can possibly keep pilots flight attendants machinists but also working with the service employees union. Making sure that all of those contractors and subcontractors the people who provide food but people who do cleaning the people who are gate assistance in some cases that those companies also will be able to get some of this money and we'll be protected as well and we will be able to keep their jobs because that's one of the industries in America. That's been hit hardest because travel has effectively shutdown not only in the US but around the world so outstanding leadership and and been the union movement really proving. Its worth in this difficult time. One hundred percent lastly. Let's talk about small businesses? I have friends that own restaurants that are in the businesses that are employing lots and lots and lots of people bartenders waiters etc. What will small businesses construction companies little tiny businesses the ones who keep our economy afloat? What are they going to get? And how did they get well? That's that three hundred and seventy seven billion dollar pot of money. It's going to go out in loans to those businesses. If they use that money to keep people on their payrolls the loans will be forgiven. So it'll essentially be a grant so the real incentive again the Democrats in the House and Senate got this done. They really fought for this. The goal is all about trying to keep those bartenders. Waiters Construction Workers Service employees and others on the payroll at they're a regional paycheck level. Their usual paycheck and that way they'll be able to support themselves and also and this is critically important. It will keep the business functioning so that we quickly recover when our economy is able to open back up if we have a bunch of small and mid sized businesses. Going bankrupt liquidating people just walking away because they don't want to acquire more debt. They don't WanNa have to pay rent on empty storefront. Then we're going to recover much more quickly of those businesses die. Those workers are lost. Then we're in big trouble if we can keep them going for as long as we can. We have a chance of getting a quick recovery from this pandemic virus. Yeah absolutely except here while. You're really great can you? Can you come back another time? We'd love to have you come back and explain more this. This is the stuff people really need to know available anytime. Thanks for having me on. Thank you very much. Yeah we definitely want to have you back and listen to all those viewers out there. This is the importance of government People say I don't understand how government affects me. I don't understand why elections affect my vote. Doesn't count this is proof. Your vote counts. There's a big difference from having democratic government Republican government. These two parties wanted very different. Things out of this bill You should really take Mansi Pelosi Democrats. They really came through Chuck Schumer. Nancy Pelosi you guys did a good job you made. What would have been a terrible bill? Big giant horrible ugly give away to the biggest businesses into something. You're actually GONNA get something out of so it ability perfect but it's better than what it would have been coming up one of the exonerated central park five in how he thinks. The criminal justice system is handling the virus outbreak as a senior citizen. A are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange I'm all in I want to live smart and and see through this but I don't want the whole country to be sacrificed if you pick. It sounds crazy but the Republican governor of Texas is suggesting that your parents or your grandparents grandma and GRANDPA should essentially people to die for the sake of the stock market and the economy. It's important to remember that. He is not a lone voice screaming from a banana boat floating through the conservative world. Take a listen to what right wing radio talk. Host Glenn Beck told his listeners. I would rather have my children stay home and all of us who are over fifty go in and keep this economy going and working even if we all get sick. I'd rather die than kill the country because it's not the economy that's Diane. It's the country Okay you don't have to be a PhD episodes to understand the idea that if we have to decide between saving lives and saving the economy that would be a reckless and false choice. Although many ethicists have pointed that out. We can't actually do both. We have to fight this outbreak. Which is the thing that is causing the economic chaos? And yet you have. People like the billionaire chairman of the payroll processor paychecks. Who told Bloomberg quote the damages of keeping the economy close as it is would be worse than losing a few more people a few more people? Don't feel more people yeah. Sure let's let them die for the trump economy millions of them. Just let them die. As Hunger Games approach seems to have been inspired by At the very top by Donald Trump who had been pushing the reopen American business by Easter when services would presumably be packed with people placed by the president in fresh jeopardy dying from Kobe. One thousand nine hundred all based on a back to work order that trump actually does not have the power to enforce well as of yesterday trump has apparently for some reason decided to listen to the medical experts. Finally and he's walked back that Easter timetable on Monday. We'll be the end of the fifteen days. Slow the spread of the virus. Do you expect that you will simply renew the guidelines or do you expect that there could be some modification to John. I'll be sitting down with this. Brilliant woman this brilliant man and lots of brilliant people that work with them. I think right Deborah Tony and we'll be sitting down on Monday. Maybe Tuesday depending on which is the best for everybody and we'll be making that determination now. Seems like a lot of things get to watch out for. What can I tell them? If it's your life then it's your safety and if we need more time they're not gonNA have a problem waiting it out joining me now. Tom Nichols opinion columnist for USA Today. Maria Theresa Kumar President and CEO. Of Voter Latino David Kay Johnston founder of DC report DOT ORG and opera. It's even worse than you think and Korean jean-pierre of move on Dot Org and author of moving forward. I think David Johnston you win the battle of the book. Titles that are appropriate to the moment. Somebody go to you on this. I the idea by Glenn Beck by the Lieutenant Governor of Texas and others is that people over fifty should be prepared to die that we should be prepared to lose two to three percent of the American population which I'm not a mathematician but that's millions of people more than what two million people should be prepared to die in order to keep the stock market bullied and keep the economy humming in a country. That is shut down because lots of people are dying as an economics guy does it. How do you strike? Just the ethics of it are insane. It's banana ramic crazy. But what do you make as an economic principle? While these are religious people are clearly religious people who worship in the house of Mammon and if they got me moral training they have clearly lost sight of it They've forgotten about the sanctity of human life. The the size of this problem is enormous I wrote a piece week ago pointing out that if this lasts eighteen months which is the official position in writing of the trump administration. The minimum cost is going to be five trillion dollars if it lasts two years as the German health officials say we're looking north of seven trillion. Those are very conservative numbers that I calculated so the cost is going to be enormous. But what about human life? What has happened to respect for human life? It is atrocious. To hear elected leaders particularly those who talk about as Glenn Beck and the Governor of Texas about their religiosity to take these kinds of physicians. Well log on this. Tom Nichols because the reality is. Is that the pro-life Party is very much pro birth but after birth. They're not so much for pro-life I've heard very similar arguments made as to why we should have unlimited gun purchasing any kind of gun any kind of weapon up to things that you use any war Should be purchased because some people have to die. Well you know it's worth it to have my Second Amendment Liberty so I've heard this kind of argument before this one is it is it is on the Jim Jones scale of saying that Lee. They're they're claiming the wheat sometimes morphs into they real quick. When people make these kind of pronouncements but people over fifty should be willing to sort of to kill themselves essentially to put themselves at risk of certain death by going back in and working and working and working in getting on the wheel so the economy will be strong it is a doomsday cultists. Sort of way of speaking is this where the Republican Party simply morphed or is this just a worship of Mammon as as David Kay. Johnston has said we don't have to pick between those two part of what you're seeing is a Republican Party. That is now trying to bend itself and twisted like a Pretzel to get around whatever position they need to stake out to be on the right side of Donald Trump. But there's always been this kind of weird inconsistency within the Republican Party Conservative Movement. That is pro-life when it comes to abortion cheers on the death penalty and now it has decided that. Perhaps some kind of voluntary euthanasia Were self inflicted. Euthanasia is worth saving the economy. It's a it's it's always been inconsistent position part of. It's been so that people on the right can stakeout. What they believed to be ultimate moral high ground of being pro-life anti-abortion and therefore you can't by taking that position. You can't argue with them about anything else. Because they believe the state. Dep is brown there is. I think what we're seeing now to show. How completely intellectually incomprehensible? That whole position is yeah riches. Come I picture people in their sort of setup sort of wheezing their way through the wheel because they have to turn the wheel for the economy that it's all about keeping the gold flowing and that the gold must flow even if you're if you're dying in the process of working. I don't foresee them seeing themselves doing it. But I think they I see somebody having to do it and you know when I interviewed Michael Steele for for for the latest book that I wrote and he described this moment as as almost the worst as almost bowel ISM is the way he described it as sort of the golden calf and that the Republican Party is would have reached that golden calf moment. He's a former seminarian so of course he described it in religious terms but it does feel like there is a statement and for Donald Trump to say who is the most irreligious person we've ever seen in public life to induce this very hard core Christian audience to believe that it strikes me as not just rhetoric because people do whatever he says. And you see. Governor's doing what he wants in Florida in red states in Texas. That's the danger. They might do it. They might have their people go back to work or some I mean Mississippi is saying that they are considering it. This is. This is what happens when you have someone that his only worship is himself and he is putting the public at danger when you say. Go back to work. Because the economy's humming the economy. For whom if what he is doing is exposing individuals to public danger. We know that there will be deaths. We are fundamentally we are. What makes us unique from other species is that we feel we love and we care and when you're saying that our loved should be exposed for a for money it doesn't make any sense and its mouth of public servitude. When you see leadership you WanNa see the the leadership that we're seeing governors in Cuomo Gavin. Newsom where they're taking care of people and saying there should not be false equivalency of who actually should get a ventilator but did you say safe. It is our public duty as individuals as American public. To make sure that we're taking care of each other and that means stay home as long as you can. China just open themselves up after six weeks of quarantine because they recognize that they're human their humanity is far more important than losing in the short term. But it's still long term that we should be looking at 'em fundamentally again. This is a moment for someone in that in that Oval Office to say we are all Americans. We're all in this together and we have. Here's every single day. Join just look at our public health. Workers look at the individuals that are delivering. Our food look at individuals that are at the frontlines. Picking our flew to make sure that there that the basics do not get as do not stop he should be highlighting those individuals and say together. The American people will move forward at this idea that I have to give up grandma GRANDPA. That's that's that's fundamentally crass and that is not who we are right and there is culturally in a lot of cultures a great reverence for the elder right. There is a sense that you and defend the older person you know at all costs. We love our grandparents Godmother. Who's eighty-six my aunts or eighty six at eighty five? These older citizens husband's grandma is in her eighties. Like these are the people we treasure. And they're seeing join their sages. They are the ones that help us navigate. And they're the ones that share their wisdom. I've had these conversations with my grandmother and she remembers when when she had to leave her husband to go when he had to go to Korea and the real sacrifices individuals had to make in real terms of war. Talk to any veteran right. Now who has a loved Ordinate Ghanistan? Who's sacrificing themselves and for for us to say. Well you know what? I can't stay home for six weeks because that's just too much trouble. Shame on us. Yeah absolutely in Korean. Exactly there are people in this country who sacrificed during World Wars right and went through the depression and for the president to be screaming in agony and some of these governors because people have to stay home for a few weeks especially when dimmer thanks to Democrats at least workers are going to be you know have some money in their pockets are not going to go broke. We're still trying to hope. Maybe Jared Kushner can stop can stop demanding rent from Biz ways. That people could be compassionate. I have been shocked by the lack of compassion on the other side and the the only compassionate seems to be very very very big businesses and not for people it is. We knew that the philosophy was randy input. Boy this is randy and stuff is brutal. Yes that's exactly right joy. Look we have a moment where donald trump is a cult leader and he's turned the Republican Party into following him in this kind of Coltish very cultish way and it's an incredibly dangerous because people are dying. This is people's lives that we're talking about it and you said it right. We cannot talk about the economic recovery until we deal with the public health What's going on right now with this crisis. And here's what's happening. It's yes it's about the big companies and money but it's also about Donald Trump's political reelection his own survival and he's following his political gut if you will. That's overwhelmingly wrong. So He's not listening to the scientists. He's not listening to the experts. What he's doing is he's thinking. Okay how am I going to get reelected in November? How am I going to survive? And not get blamed for this because remember. He has no responsibility for what is currently happening because although he knew about this two months ago and did absolutely nothing. He's the one who said we don't need the test from. Who the World Health Organization? He's the one who's saying. Oh Yeah we don't need thirty thousand ventilators to save people's lives. He's the one who's been lying to the American public. He's the one who's been downplaying this threat and look by saying and I know he sorta kind of stepped away from it yesterday as you were saying earlier about reopening country on April twelfth which is so incredibly ridiculous. Nobody agrees with him on that one expert would say that is the right thing to do but this is where we are. He is thinking about his own political health and not the public health. Yeah all those passes out there. Please do not mean for Easter please. It's not safe. Let me go back to David Johnson Vermont. Because at the same time the reality is for people who work particularly hourly workers gig workers people who drive uber waiters waitresses. You know if if they have to wait for weeks to have any money in their pockets. Even that is too long. A lot of people are not gonNA have enough money to pay rent. They want to go to work this idea about that. Republicans have put four. If you offer the Dole people will run from the workplace. And I'll sit home. All Day is ridiculous. People WanNa go do their career do the job that they have. What do we do about getting the economy to still function in this moment? Because you can't have people out picking the food that we eat. You can't have people out doing the the the you know. The basic work that makes our economy function because people cannot congregate. So how does the economy not completely implode? How does food still wind up on tables? What is the rational way to have a functioning economy without risks adding people risk death? Well first of all keep this in mind. Everybody is not out of work. Many people are actually going to be better off because of this. They're not spending money and they are getting paid unreadable to work at home if we don't get control of this by using physical distancing a hand washing and the other recommendations of the people who know what they're talking about unlike Donald then we will have a much worse catastrophe on our hands that's the essential ingredient. We keep in mind here We are going to see twenty percent or more unemployment which I've written about and we're going to see problems with workers particularly who don't have unions being forced to go to job situations that are not wise or safe or too close together We've had this issue is already here in western New York with a chocolate making factory. It's been deemed essential. Like you know. We can't live without chocolate for a while. So the important thing to do is to not have the pandemic jet worse through mismanagement and by the way just to be clear as the only grandparent. He can this group and someone who has grown adult grandchildren. I'm not lining up to die for the economy down in front of a killer and exposing spies but I am. I'm not doing it. For the economists absurd. Let's have moral based on what we do. And so we come to follow best practices or will get worse economically. Yeah a lot of us have had our grow to move back because they were like Tom. How do I guess the question would be? How do we then bring a rational conversation about this? To the sort of micro countries inside the United States that are governed by this very arch conservative philosophy of Mississippi Louisiana's changed now because they have a democratic governor. They're more of a mixed economy. North Carolina Change. But we have such a dichotomy between the philosophy of even. Republicans like Mike Dewine in Ohio and Mississippi Governor. How do you get the thing is? The threat doesn't end because one or two states fix it right. They've one or two states react really wisely but then the state next door does the opposite. It's the same problem as guns if you regulate guns in one state but the other state is a wide open market and you can by an AK47 there you. It doesn't help. So how how do we have that rational conversation with very very conservative states and people to convince them to save their own lives? Well two things I think. the magnificent incompetence and self-centeredness of Donald Trump has really been a boon for federalism. Suddenly people are remembering in a way that we we didn't use to. Hey My governor really has powers here my state actually matters and I think we're starting to see it does matter who runs your state. The president isn't the emperor of the United States and there's only so much year one day she can do and so that's been actually. I think a very healthy thing because it's forced people in the United States that to remember that they have statehouses a I think the other thing that's fascinating about this. Is that the real. Acid test of political effectiveness is whether or not your local and state governments are helping you to stay alive and what you're seeing I think. Is You know that some governments are doing better than others at this and I think that rational conversation that you were talking about joy that happens when people start getting sick in places where they think they would get sick and I think that's unfortunate but I've been saying all on that the thing that's GonNa make people listen to doctors and scientists and public. Health is something like a pandemic and on this. I was sorry to be right but it but what will happen is the states around. The states will start taking measures. I mean I'm sitting here in Rhode Island right now and Mike. Governor has basically closed the state to people from New York. So if you're a New Yorker and you WANNA come and stay with me here in Rhode Island. I'm sorry out of luck but To do their best. The State of Rhode Island and the nearby state of Massachusetts said if you're coming in and out fourteen days quarantine that's that's the requirement and I think some of the piano. Those red states with those governors are going to learn the hard way that maybe you know. Science is more important than being part of the cult. Yeah it is. It is to go out and buy the Hamilton mix tape you. WanNa learn about what the whole question about the country would be. Set Up Kumar. Because you can't go see Hamilton right. Now get the race a coupon the other question to do the reverse of that. Is that boy? It would be a whole different country if we had universal full universal healthcare right because you also had per the whole federalism argument states go to court to argue that they could just say no to expanding Medicaid and so now you have some states where people who are working poor and this and I hate to break it to people in the right wing. That's that just black and Brown people. There are a lot of white working poor who do not have health care and cannot pay to get treated if they test positive for Kobe. Nineteen so the next step is bankruptcies. Lots of them and so is this now in a moment when we should be thinking about. How do we really have that conversation again about making sure every American has health insurance or that we go to some other system? I think this is. This is a moment where there's not one person in America who is not crossed their mind can off if I do have covert can Koga nineteen. Can I get treated can? My loved ones get treated. And now is the opportunity. For folks have is really honest conversations of the income disparity of how even if you are considered solidly Middle Class. A visit to the hospital. Emergency Room can basically wipe you out even under ACA. Because there's so much strange happening in the system. There was an individual that went. She got tested. She was on a ventilator. Walked out with thirty nine thousand dollars in debt. Who can do that very few people when we know that the majority of Americans have less than two months of savings in their account. Let alone listening to talk about African Americans or Latinos who have often times less than two hundred dollars in their account on a good on a good so this is an opportunity for us to be really self reflective. It's so interesting. Watching how so. Many of some of these major shocks to our system have unfolded it really parallels what happened the last century joy whether we're talking about immigration conversations of who we want in this country whether it means about transferring from technology from wide industrial revolution from farming Industrial Revolution. We're talking about how do you go to the GIG economy? How do you become tech? Were having these fundamental conversations when it comes even to now the pandemic and it's an opportunity for us to one recognize the importance of public servitude importance of having people who are championing you when it comes to really in times of crisis. The reason that the Democrats were able to pass a comprehensive piece of legislation that is really talking about making sure people get checks to their doorstep in three to four weeks is because member every exceeds income Americans went out and voted in droves in the midterm election. We saw a wave of congressional members on the Democratic side that actually speak to our values. Now's the time for us to continue asking them to think really big into provide a social safety net when it comes to help air because it should because one thing that covert is at record as demonstrated to us is that it does not discriminate based on race or socioeconomic status absolutely in Korean. Jump here you know looks really smart right now. This is interesting because the other question that you know. The rest of the world is talking about whether or not university reversal. Become a thing that we first started hearing about from Dr King that we still are having this conversation and it seems that something like that might actually be a smart idea. Yeah and you were talking about how you know disproportionately how it's affecting if you think about the politics of this which is how. Donald Trump is looking at. This is rule Americans. White Americans are his voters. Those are those same people that are getting hurt as well that he because of his policies or because of the decisions that he's making are hurting and one thing that we're seeing right now in this moment and we've seen it many times before but now we're talking about people's lives and how deadly this situation is is how inept and ill-equipped Donald Trump is to is president. And so what we're seeing is the lack of leadership from federal government but then we see governors and mayors stepping up to fill that void and this is not how it should be but this is where we are and Donald Trump is refusing to use the full powers of the federal government to attack this crisis to deal with this crisis. And this is the situation that were. We're in now and so I have to say thank you to to the governors out there who are stepping up and who are making these really hard decisions on their own and not getting the help that they need from the federal government absolutely and to all those voters up there and I keep doing the whole little voter chat. Little Ted talks when you are hiring the governor or you're hiring a president in those executive positions you are not hiring a religious leader. You're not hiring somebody to back up your beliefs religion in the religious context you are hiring the CEO of your trump of a company called United States. Right think of it as a company if you would not hire this person to run your business to run a restaurant for you. Don't make them president. You have a crisis manager. Who would you want to manage a crisis? That's how you vote. You don't vote based on who you WanNa have coffee or beer with. That's ridiculous you vote for somebody. You think can manage a crisis. That crisis manager got absent in the White House. Right magically never know what to do Tom Nicol that's me that's not my guess. I won't put that on them. Tom Nichols Maria Theresa. Kumar David Kate. Johnston and Korean jean-pierre. Y'All hit me up on twitter if you WANNA complain about when I just next up. Thank you guys for being here next up. We'll tell you if any of the two point two trillion dollars we'll find its way into the trump families hungry pockets. You're going to ensure that the president his family cannot personally benefit from Baylor. Tried to get that in the legislation. Yeah we'll try to figure that out. I think it's against law now but the judges are not interpreting it correctly. Well they did it in a huge win for Democrats. Donald trump and his businesses will not be getting any money from the two trillion dollars. Economic Stimulus Wealth Stimulus rescue package passed by Congress and that could be a problem for trump since many of his businesses temporarily closed because of the corona virus outbreak joining hold reporter for the Washington Post who covers the trump family business interests and dave is also an MSNBC contributor all right so David explain to me how the trump family portfolio is looking pre corona versus the corona virus pandemic. How has how things changed for him? Pretty sharply remember that he does have some commercial real estate interest. Some office buildings things like that. That are a little less vulnerable to shock in the economy but a lot of what he does is tourism writing these people walk in the door every day renting a room every day and so a lot of his tells the UK Ireland in to rally and Miami and Las Vegas are just closed. The ones that aren't closed in. Dc New York and Chicago are like Ed. Ten percent of the normal capacity. They had to lay off hundreds of workers. So you see at a business and he really depends on bringing in cash every day. Almost shut off six of his seven top producing clubs in hotels are now closed and in the one that has been the most egregious. I think for a lot of people that added mar-a-lago which have taken in lots of foreign money because lots of folks are staying the occupancy rate I imagine there is is down to almost nothing so he's no longer taking in that kind of money either right before visitors are coming now. What we've heard from the hotel was a ten percent occupancy. They've laid off dozens of people still open but the restaurants are closed at a lot of it is basically shut down the other issue for Donald Trump is that he's been able to glean a lot of the business and a lot of the money he's he and his family have been able to take in from Federal Fellow Government Workers. Essentially you've had the attorney general throw parties there and use it. You've had the secret service using the secret service paying takeout golf carts when he's going golfing. How much money are we talking about? What percentage of the income that trump has been taking it? If you can estimate has been coming from fellow members of the Federal Government I think what we know so far and it's very very poultry because the freedom of Information Act process has been so slow we know about at least six hundred and twenty thousand dollars worth of income that trump's gotten just from his own travel so when he travels the secret service goes with him and he can charge them whatever he wants and what he's charged him is like six hundred and fifty dollars a night or each hotel room. They use it more Lago. Four hundred dollars a night for rooms at mar-a-lago so it's been a lot of money now. The overall fraction of his business is still really small. As far as we know but I think we still don't know the numerator net equation. Well enough we still don't know exactly how much money he's gotten out of the federal government because none of the trump organization or the federal government will give us a full accounting of it. Yeah there's the question of you know. There have been other hotels that volunteer tickly New York to open up their facilities to help people in terms of using for field hospitals. Or do you use to house. People who may have come through been contracted the virus any reporting that Donald. Trump has any plans to do such a thing. It's happening in New York ed in Chicago. Where closedown hotels are being re purposed in Chicago? They're paying New York. Who tells her volunteering? Now we've asked trump organization at the ebony intention of doing that. They haven't responded in Chicago. We know that they're not part of the program so far. We haven't been able to get an answer out of the state but both Andrew Cuomo and Donald Trump and the kind of person this was happening. I think they'd tell us yeah they would say something. What about the children because Donald Adult children they? They seem to derive most of their income. And you know you're the expert on this from his businesses and things with his surname on them so in terms of their income without these hotels without these resorts and the money coming in from them in the foreign emoluments. That are coming in from them. Where where did they get their money? Well the main source of income if the hotels restaurants are closed is a couple of office. Buildings don't even have their name on them one in New York and San Francisco trump through sort of J. giants stroke of luck a few years ago wound up with thirty percent of somebody else's to office buildings. Those spoke produced a lot of cash. And we'll continue to produce it for a little while but just because it's so hard to get out of leases so the trump organization that coming in but they do have a lot of problems you remember. They had huge outstanding loans on on the Hotel Chicago all places that are either closed or running in a tiny fraction of capacity. Now what they started doing with those loans. Do they start worrying about whether they can pay them? That's our next question. Yeah absolutely and let's talk about jared for just a moment. There is some reporting that rather than relax. The requirements for his tenants and some of his tenants are in some tough positions in terms of his buildings in Maryland and other places that they are enforcing to the maximum that they want their money. What about about his income because a lot of it does come from being not the best landlord? I'm not the world's expert on Jared Kushner have read that Wasn't interesting things at the same time. The KUSHNER companies asking for leniency from its lenders retail space in Times Square that? I've read that. They are having trouble making the payments on so they're forcing people to make payments while trying to get out of themselves. Yeah well they're all on brand at least everyone's staying on Brand David. Farrant hold your branded the greatest reporter eight. I think he went to Harvard. Because see you're little cutback there. Everybody's talking about that sometime. What else he lived next up. Thank you very much for being here next up how. The Corona virus epidemic is taking a toll on America's prisons very important conversation throughout the night posted on social media showed fires raging at Bogota's Modelo. Prison shots could be heard. His prisoners film themselves trying to flee riots over Corona virus panic and prison sanitary conditions broke out in this and other eight overcrowded detention facilities across Columbia in what the government described as a massive attempt to escape deadly. Riots erupted at a prison in Bogota Colombia. This week amid fears the corona virus could be spreading in the facility. Meanwhile here in the United States the prison population is increasingly vulnerable. According to Legal Aid Society Corona virus within New York City. Jails is spreading at a rate. Get this seven times faster than in New York City itself. The spread has already prompted New York state to announce the early release of more than one thousand inmates being held on parole violations and joining me now is criminal justice and prison reform activists use of. Salaam one of the exonerated Central Park. Five and Vince Warrant Executive Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights. Thank you very much for being here. Both of you use if I'm going to go to I talk about you. Know what it means. Let alone for something. He didn't even do but be inside. One of these facilities. How cramped is it? How crowded is it is even possible to socially distance when you're inside of a facility like this unless you are literally in solitary talking about it then possibility probably the most isolated instituted in. Isn't it out. He's in solitary confinement. And the worst part of that. You're talking about a space where people are stacked one on top of another. It's like a personal seizes. One person gets sick the old you can imagine it sometimes. You have five teams so in prison housing. Every single person protea can get sick at one particular point of time. So we're talking about six weeks at it varies This nightmare waiting lists. Yeah and what about the health care facilities? What kind of health care are we talking about like if you have? Let's say a thousand people incarcerated in one facility. Is there a lot of healthcare? Bill where there are a lot of beds available. If someone got sick what happens absolutely not there is no. There's no meaningful healthcare. I mean you've got these data stitch-up staff or the fight or something like that. We're talking about something that means something that will save your life in the crisis of work. Now we're in a need for Labor Crisis. His is one is experiencing. I mean you have people who sometimes it Jimbo on Mondays. I mean this is. I'm trying to. I'm trying to describe where I was and how I feel and how tragic this right now because when I was there there was at least one person herself. When I was leaving there was to herself in the front of the units and it was saying to every single cell on every was gonNA get double box. Which is a nightmare records? And you know Vince. The aside from the fact that we should be conversation a larger conversation about our criminal justice system and how we house people and how we treat people and how we treat people who many of whom are not even guilty what they've done but that's a whole different conversation but in other countries these conditions that use of just describe have led to riots breakouts. Because people aren't just going to sit still and watch. Pearson after person after person gets sick knowing that this is rampant. And so what is? Is there a larger movement to sort of take a second look at our criminal justice system in light of this pandemic there is a much larger movement and in fact most advocates are saying are essentially calling for the same things that they've been calling for for a very long time? Our incarceration system of mass incarceration is just inhumane. There's no getting around it and you put on top of that. A pandemic like this It really requires government to think very differently. And we know that government can think differently. Now we have. The governor has released about a thousand inmates. That people are in technical. Parole the board of Corrections in New York has called for two thousand people to be released includes people with underlying health issues that includes people that are elderly that includes people that are on what are called city sentences nonviolent sentences but the way that we have to think about this now is the same amount of energy that it takes to get the state and the city to get all of us to shelter in place to socially distance to turn off businesses. That's the type of energy that we need with respect to our prisons that you know the way that we stick people in these bunks in the sales in the best of times on the Sunniest Day is a horror show and now we have a situation where we're we're keeping them essentially keeping them in containers Where that viruses going to spread so when we are standing on line to the grocery store and staying six feet apart you can't do that at rikers. There's no soap rikers. There's no there's there's no way to be able to do this. People are sleeping toe to head every single day and I'm happy that Groups like lead society have been able to file lawsuits to be able to get a range of these people out of jail. It's totally possible. Yeah and you know we haven't even there's this population and then there's also the people who wear incarcerating at the border including children and a lot of us have had this sort of dark thought that you God forbid there's some sort of a pandemic pandemic flu or measles or anything that takes place inside of these places where we're caging kids you know. It's not as if the guards don't leave. And the same thing with our prison system die brother who worked at rikers. You go home at the end of the night or used your there for two or three days if you're sick and you're a guard your then taking that out of there so the risk is not just to the people inside right. This is the risk. The risk is it extends outside of these prison walls. It's exactly right joy. This is not a static situation and most people would probably be under the misconception. That people that are in jail that are incarcerated are safe from the virus and that might be the case if it weren't for all of the people that work at the jails work the ice facilities that go home every day and they come back and they introduced the virus. Then we're in a situation where the state and society is introducing a virus into a state facility will not let anybody leave. That's a state created harm. I'm not blaming the United States over the city of New York where the state of New York for creating the corona virus. What I'm saying is that we have to stop thinking about people as criminal elements and start thinking about them as people. We stopped school. We closed colleges. We've done all of these amazing things and yet we expect these men and to sit there while this virus spreads and then we'll say over what we don't want to let them out because they've got the virus that's crazy and then what about for use of you also have visitors. You also have people that are coming to see their loved ones to keep track of them. They're coming in and out. How much separation is there? Are there still open facilities? Where people are being able to touch their loved one. Be Near them or is it all behind glass because that's another potential way that this could come from inside of these facilities to out to the outside. You do a lot of facilities that still the ability of loved ones. Actually puppy to breezy to deal with one another. But we're talking. Also about the humanity of right from you to be able to see everyone in farces side whether the buzzer not as being did and he capacity for for the system to say you know. Shut down this. Let's keep this other part going to try to because even with the fact that we have loved ones that keeps people alive that keeps hope you have a lot of people have not been syncing. Who are still fighting it system. I'm thinking about it. Collie broader for thousands of Cardi brothers in the system right now waiting to go to court to have the coping and yet now this pandemic hit and now everybody is told to show them face now. We have a princess like a that folks can't even get the loving support a bit of a loved one because of you know it's it's this is this is one of the worst nightmares that tape ever experience absolutely and been it's happening even to children. You know there are teenagers who are being arrested. We know the Khalif browder story very well who have not even been sentenced. And who are awaiting trial and who are also stuck in these kinds of facilities just like these migrant. Children are stuck. What is the legal liability of a state or federal government in terms of the federal incarceration system? If somebody were to get sick or or God forbid die because they were not protected in these facilities. Well there are children. They're senior citizens. There are folks with underlying issues. That should all be released. The problem joy is that the way the law is structured. It is very very difficult for a prisoner to be able to sue the city or the state For something like this there is a. They're all of these federal laws And state laws that create real loopholes and obstacles for people to be able to file a lawsuit where they would be able to in any other context and that's largely because the system beer. Is that the insist that the inmates will suet out of existence but now we have a situation where there is a virus and there is something that is horrible that is going on NPR. At least be able to threaten to sue in order to get the kind of relief that they need and if this was happening to anybody else in our society the first people that they would talk to would be lawyers say can they do this. these make sure stuck. Let the mayor and the governor can release. These people Eric quickly and we also need federal prisoners released and we also need to deal with the homeless population. This is a you know we need to think about all the people that are vulnerable in our society. And let's make them all absolutely vince. Warren always ready to talk with the use of saliva. So much respect Freeman. Thank you so much for being on. I feel it's an honor just to just to talk to you. Both of you are fabulous. Thank you guys very much. Stay Safe Really. Appreciate you and up next your moral moment. I mean the Corona Virus Crisis Fisher. William Barber joins me when we come back. What some of my Republican friends still have not given up on the need to punish the poor and working people. You haven't raised the minimum wage in ten year. Minimum wage. Should be at least fifteen bucks done that. You've cut program after program after program and now horror of Horace for four months. Workers might be earning a few bucks more than they otherwise went after some fireworks during the debate. There was a refreshing display of bipartisanship this week when Congress passed passing DONALD TRUMP. Signed a nearly two point two trillion dollar rescue package to address the economic fallout of the corner virus. Pandemic the relief bill gives over gives more than five hundred billion dollars to big businesses but only about one hundred billion dollars to hospitals on the front lines of what caused economic crisis in the first place. And what about the poorest Americans? Well joining me now is Dr William Barber Co Chair of the poor people's campaign and president of repairs at the breach Bishop. Barber thanks so much for being here. And I'M GONNA start off with the downside of this because I think bipartisanship is actually quite overrated. Because what you saw here are Democrats really having to fight to get Republicans to accept that poor people in working people should get something at all. And that's big business. And so that aside we still have water being shut off. Rashida Toledo was tweeting about water. Show off prohibition which more than eighty members of the house supported included. Debbie Dingle Dan Kildee. We're people are still having their watershed off and you can't wash your hands a lot if you don't have any water that's right. Well you know when we look at this one of the reasons why the poor people's campaign is going with our mass poor people's Assembly Morrow march on Washington and why we put out a budget response to poverty. Pandemic is because the experts telling us that this stimulus actually leaves out million. We don't have a prohibition against water shut off. We don't have a prohibitions Against EVICTIONS. We have millions of people have one hundred and forty million poor low where people like. Lola who works part time as a cashier sleeps in how many bandwidth at three children because rents are high in San Diego has no fixed address and therefore may not get the one time. Payment doesn't qualify for unemployment. You know this. Bill didn't do anything to raise living wages. It's a one time CASS assistance. Twelve hundred dollars is not enough. Did Not Fund a health insurance for the uninsured This bill will leave out millions joy. Millions of people part time workers that means they get nothing They don't have paid sick leave. it didn't provide the fifty billion dollars. We need for childcare. The cover It didn't do anything about Health Insurance for the uninsured. I mean there's so many holes in this bill and while it was made a little bit better you know anytime. Mukasey stands up on the House floor and celebration the God of California Representative California and says how graded and then stays. How great everybody was doing before the Koran of is when in fact seven hundred people poor people were dying a day prior to this The Corona virus. We really have a problem. And so what we're seeing is. Bill is corporations got plenty. The Pentagon got plenty but this bill did not touch millions of Americans who are on the front lines who are hurting bad in this virus. Let's talk about what because the Speaker Pelosi said? This is just bill number three but it's not the last bill so there is apparently went to another shot at this to try to get more done. Democrats have vowed to do that. You have homelessness right now. Four hundred ninety three thousand people on average are homeless any day in the United States. The projected cases among homeless people with a forty percent peak infection rate would be one hundred ninety seven thousand people are projected to be afflicted with krona virus with Kobe. Nineteen Twenty One thousand. Two hundred ninety five hospitalized seven thousand one hundred forty five in critical care a fatality rate of three thousand four hundred fifty four people. What should be done in your view regarding the homeless in if in the next bill well first of all just think that Nick beal concept? The corporations and businesses don't have to go to the next meal they always get the first and what we see operating here. Something called shock. Doctrine went in the midst of a disaster. The corporations lobby to get the most up front. If homeless people are not taking care of the virus still spreads so we need to go we we we have to start from the bottom. It should have been this time. Start from the bottom. The homeless the part time workers the people who are having to steal go to work and fix the bottom because if you don't the germ doesn't know bottom atop the germ just knows infection. The virus just knows infection and we should be Making sure that we have so many Some of our homeless people actually going into abandoned houses and putting up quarantine. We have enough about the band and how to make sure the homeless have a place to stay but we need to build. It starts down to give you an opportunity to. I want to give you an opportunity to talk about Reverend Dr Joseph Lowry who passed away at ninety eight years old. We have done a much time but I want to give you that opportunity. Well you know he was a tremendous battle tremendous fighter and we love him for that and he stood up and and stood up the president. That's why I wanted to reason the poor people's campaign we're going to twist standing up to trump calling us the go back for Easter we sang and we need nonviolent non-cooperation do not go back on. Easter. Do not go back to work instead. Tail the White House and Congress that go back and fix the bill and deal with the people that Jesus really cared about The poor the sick the homeless the children the low wage workers. That's what Jesus would be doing We're going to have a major campaign around. And now with Dr Larry passing his spirit will be with us because he always did it up to power and said do right by the least of these and we must continue to do that in his passing. We must rise up and remember all of those who have passed before us. That did not take the keys from the empire and from the White House took the key from the perspective of our society and our religion. Amen had the blessing of meaning. Dr Larry Many many years ago. What a good man Bishop William Barber. Also a tremendous advocate and a great man. Thank you so much for being here really appreciate you.

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