Cyberstalked: Cari Lea Farver

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

True Crime contains disturbing content related to real light crimes. Medical Information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment listener discretion is advised. Well come true crime brewery I'm Jill and I'm Dick. In November of Two Thousand Twelve Carrie, Leigh Farber, just up and left everything behind her new boyfriend her job and even her son this was not like Kerry who was a responsible worker a reliable friend and devoted mom then an alarming string of texts from Carey's phone set everyone on edge carries new boyfriend Dave. KROUPA. Was surprised by her abrupt change of heart. But it only known her for about two weeks. After carry mistress son's high school graduation and her own father's funeral her mother Nancy was certain that the person communicating with her by text was not her daughter. Join us at the quiet and for cyber stalked carry farber as carries family members worried about her dave crew PA believed that she was stalking him and his on again off again lover Liz Golyer David Liz reported break INS arson and death threats as obscene messages from carries phone and social media accounts poured in. After a three year time period, thousands of these messages were received not until the past of a sociopathic killer was exposed and digital forensics were utilized was the truth behind carries disappearance brought into the light. Or Beard today is a Nice Nebraska beer called Malaysia Twat from Nebraska Brewing Company. Didn't I knew French did you? Knew a let off. So this is a strong. Ale. To eleven point three percent alcohol by volume. Definitely one, we're, GONNA. SIP The pretty beer clear golden yellow, big thick wait head that retained well left a ladder lace taste of fruit some wine. And the old the Funky nece you know that Sorta tart sour stuff I really enjoy those flavors. Agreed. Beer yeah yeah when you taste and Scott some fruit. peppery spice, and then later in the tasty get more wine and oak from the barrel it's dry beer very good beer and again we're gonNA sit this one. Okay. Let's open it up. All right. So I'm already here at the quiet and I'm way ahead he has come on are read enough for to move. Did we now now like two feet behind me you're? Okay why don't you go ahead and start this? This is very kind of a complex story, but I tried to put it together as simply as I could. So we might have to do a lot of talking to understand exactly what was happening but very complex just a crazy story. I would second that this woman is just over the top yes. Did not carry and not carry right let's start. We'll do some family background because we like to do that we do so carries parents were Nancy and denny. And they fell in love with Nancy's just nineteen years old and then he was twenty one. They got married in nineteen seventy then in nineteen, seventy, two, their son Adam was born. Followed by Carey in nineteen seventy four. Nancy chose Adams name. So then he was to choose Carrie's name. Nancy wanted to name their daughter Kelly. Yes but after Kerry, well, yeah I guess Danny had seen this young girl singer on the Johnny Carson show I think it was really liked her thought she was talented and like the name Kerry. But then he changed the spelling to see a R. I Which I guess. Kind of. Plagued Carey in her youth because everyone was always misspelling her name. You gotta be careful with that. Right you do and this is before there were so many made up spellings like there are now me now you know that they're going to have special spellings of the kids names a lot of the time whatever whatever name you pick. Yeah exactly. The double E. The L. G. H. You know. All different variations, but anyway, Kerry had a hard time with people. Either mispronouncing or misspelling her name because of that. These were young kids when they got married they didn't have a lot of money at least early on. Danny work two jobs. And then finally he got a good paying position as an insurance actuary. This folks actually make pretty good money. Nancy was a skilled secretary. She is always organized and efficient. But like a lot of young marriages, it didn't last. So and Adam was four and can carry with eighteen months. Old Appearance got divorced. Adam maintain a close relationship with his father. Kerry was young when the divorce happened. So she was closer to her mother. But then he was a good father and carry visited him often as she got older. In nineteen seventy nine Nancy had been on her own for three years and it had been nine years since she had spoken to her high school sweetheart mark rainy. Nancy and mark were children together and their parents were really good friends. So in their parents would get together when they were kids Nancy and mark would play together along with their siblings. Now, once she was in junior high nancy began to notice mark romantically and he was one year ahead of her in school, but they continued to see each other. Nancy was shy and mark was the class clown and they were a couple from the time. She was fourteen until she completed high school. They used to go out on double dates go to concerts dances the whole nine yards. Yard then she met Denny and dump them right or are they broken up before I know of it was that simple? I mean, they attended different colleges. So mark was an art major in Missouri and Nancy went to business school in des, Moines Iowa, and that's where she met Denny. So I wouldn't say she dumped mark. You know that kind of thing happens that does yeah. So by the summer of Nineteen seventy-nine, Nancy had been a single mom for a while. And when she is invited to a friend's wedding back in her hometown of Macedonia. She is pretty excited. She learned mark was going to be there. So that sounds like we're gonNA maybe rekindle the Highschool Romance I'll absolutely. Now Mark For his part was happy to see her there and found out that she was single. So at the wedding reception it was obvious that they were still attracted to each other mark asked her out. And the rest was history. Yeah exactly. They got married in nineteen eighty one and he was a teacher. So she was happy to see how well he was able to get along with her kids. He taught drama and art. But then he made a career change because he needed to make more money and he ended up as a salesman but he was surprised that he kind of enjoyed the work and he ended up keeping that job for thirty years. -mergency must elected. Yeah. They're mom would say that Kerry was very different from her brother in many ways where Adam was kind of clingy and a bit of a Momma's boy carey was independent and she just loved adventure by kindergarten. It was easy to see that she was really smart to. She was the only one in her class who knew how to read. Then, at age six, carry helped her teacher by reading books to the other students and she was put into a gifted and talented class. But even in that class she remained at the top. So really bright. No entertains curry continued to do well in school, but she did have a rebellious phase. When she was sixteen years old she and a girlfriend went out drinking with some boys and she ended up staying out all night didn't get home until the next morning. While she and Nancy had their arguments, they always made up. She went away to college and Kansas. She got good grades. But she also took the time to meet people go to parties and do what college kids do. Yes. A pretty well rounded. She had boyfriends in college but none of them lasted very long. She seemed to get bored pretty easily. She get tired of a boy and break up with him after a few weeks or a couple of months but you know she often remained friends with them. So she was personable Carey met frank her son Max's father when she was at the University of Kansas after they decided to break up, she discovered that she was pregnant. So they decided they'd make an effort to remain a couple and parent together but predictably didn't work out. Carrie was really worried about how she was going to support herself in a baby. So she enrolled in a special six month computer programming course. So it was a quick chorus but if you were bright, you could really get a good job with that certificate. So her grandparents paid the tuition for her and she did end up getting a very good paying job just weeks after she gave birth. So frank lived far away and he wasn't involved disappearance at all really. But fortunately MECs head to GRANDPA's in his life. So he had some male role models. He did carries twenty three years old with a baby, but she was a strong woman and a loving mother over the years. Carry got married and divorced twice. She changed jobs several times. But she continued to be devoted to her son Max. She had moved to Topeka for couple of. Years. But she missed having a family nearby. So she moved back to Macedonia. In Two thousand twelve, she was living near her mother and working with computers. In a job, she really liked one day. She had to take her two thousand, five Ford explorer in for repairs and she felt a strong attraction to David Kupa. Who is the mechanic working on her car day? Was a thirty four year old who had recently ended a relationship with the mother of his two children. Yes and at this point, Carey was thirty seven. So a couple years older than him. So Dave was dating, but he was clear with the women he saw that he wasn't interested in monogamous committed relationship. His twelve year relationship with Amy Flora had ended recently leaving him to enjoy his freedom while he figured out what he wanted to do with the rest of his life. Amy Dave had tried to work things out, but they were just really different. and. The big thing was that amy had expected they would eventually get married, which is reasonable. They had two children together. But he never proposed. And after twelve years, amy decided she needed to move on. So they did remain pretty friendly and they parented together pretty well trying to make it easy on the kids. But it was over after twelve years. And in that summer of twenty twelve Dave head regular visitation with his children. But he was otherwise all alone. He was living in an apartment in a large Omaha apartment complex and that was near the shop where he was a manager hiatt tire. So he was thirty four, but he was lonely. He'd been out of the dating scene since he was in his early twenties. So he had no idea where to meet women and that's where online dating came in. He started going on match dot com. Okay. Cupid e harmony, and plenty of fish and I guess primarily, he liked plenty of fish and that's where he met most of the women he dated. So. This is a free membership with over fourteen million people visiting the site daily. Each profile has a photo online name and any information the person wants to share basically, but there's no background checks. Sued Wild West kind of yeah. So Dave was able to just put in a location, an age range and other characteristics that he wanted in a woman and all these matches would pop up this. This sounds like tinder. A little bit. Yeah. Not The heavens recollection of tinder right. But online. You know there's just no way of knowing if people are telling you the truth, there's no background checks. But you know I guess most of the inaccuracies are harmless like wait looks. Maybe. Money. Sure. But sometimes, members are married lots of times. They use a photo that's like ten years old or you know pretend they're making more money stuff like that. But you know especially as a woman I, think you need to be cautious. Oh, there's no question. So they've understood the women who were cautious would agree to meet only and very public place, and during daylight hours, David heard horror stories of women being attacked by men. They met online for his own safety dave that while some women had jealous ex-boyfriends, he felt like he was able to take care of himself, which is this kind of fooling yourself because if they have a jealous ex boyfriend who comes in with a gun, how you going to take care of yourself who's GonNa do some kung-fu or something i? Guess you're not a Dave Fan we'll just say that now I can asshole. Don't be sorry. So once Dave decided to meet women. There is no shortage of them. David. Meet them for coffee or lunch. And if they're attracted to each other. Might end up having sex, but Dave always made it clear beforehand that he was not interested in a relationship. He didn't want to have sex with a large number of women. But he didn't want a monogamous relationship either. Well I think in Dave's ideal world he was just going to date like a handful of attractive fund women. Who wouldn't make any demands on them? So is that too much to ask I don't know apparently no. I mean I don't think it's really what most women want to hear. No this is Dave's world right? Dave Swirl. So he wanted a woman that would be free like he was and have no problem playing the field and you know there were a few there but most women wanted more and that's not surprising. Of course, right? Well, you have to think back to his earlier relationship he's living with this woman for twelve years. They have two children, but he won't propose here. How can marriage too much of a commitment if you have children together, that's more of a commitment or it is. Yet saves. Whole Outlook is kind of annoying. Very annoying. Here's uses looking at it like he viewed his relationship. Yeah. No strings attached. Sure. I'm living with this woman for a dozen years ahead to kids with her. But we're not really together. Yeah. I can leave anytime. I want so. Heck with him and I don't think that everyone who doesn't get married but has a family together is like that but he certainly seemed that way. Or watching the dateline episode just What I've read about an I just don't have any good thoughts about dave he seems like he's stuck in adolescence or something while share about Lee. Just concede that he's not the worst person in the story. Oh sure. Yeah do that okay. So let me just talk a little bit about Dave's upbringing. A tiny bit. He grew up in Sioux Falls South Dakota and he was born in nineteen seventy six. He's the oldest of three boys and this family were southern Baptists. So they went to services on Wednesday and then twice on Sundays. Interestingly, enough neither Dave nor his brothers ever got married. and Dave was the only one who had any kids. But their parents were married for forty five years. So what did that marriage look like wondering wondering? Three brothers yeah. I just wonder if maybe there was something going on there that turn them off to getting married who knows but you know when Dave talked about his childhood, you just seemed to think it was a paradise everything was great. He said his parents rarely argued and they really encouraged him in his brother's interests supporting his playing football until he was injured and that was in his freshman year of high school he was injured now he wasn't good to consider playing in college, but he did have a small collection of trophies. But in the ninth grade, he broke his leg the night before the first game of the season and just out of sports altogether and rebelled. Grew out his hair started smoking cigarettes, and then after high school, he moved to Denver and he joined the National Guard. After, two years there he was discharged and there was something about them not paying him and he wouldn't show up. But Anyway, he was discharged and he decided to go to college and get an associate degree in automotive engineering because he was good with cars. It's a good idea. Yeah. Her betrayed. Absolutely. Now he was working in council bluffs Iowa when he met amy floor again, amy is his live-in wife. WHO's the mother was two children not a wife but yes. Live in girlfriend for twelve years in mother of his children. Live in. Okay. She was petite and soft spoken. They had a mutual attraction and they were pretty quickly a couple. Exclusively in two thousand, one, their daughter Callisto was born followed by a son they named trae in two thousand three. And when Dave got a promotion, the family moved to Madison Wisconsin but they didn't have any wedding plans. He never did not ever and Dave stance on getting married became the biggest issue that the couple had. Amy wanted a wedding and lifelong commitment they were living together and raising these two kids. But for some reason, Dave didn't want to get married. So this conflict grew over the years. As a young working couple, Amy Dave were really stressed over money a lot and they worked opposite shifts. So one of them could be with the children all the time. But that also made it. So they had no time alone together. So, they did stay in Wisconsin for about a decade but amy Mr Family and friends Beckon Iowa. So in fall of twenty eleven, they moved back to council bluffs and soon after that is when they split up. so that's when Dave moved into his apartment in Omaha and he had nothing with him but a basket of clothes in his computer. He was in Omaha with was about twenty minutes away from where his children were living. Council bluffs had cheaper housing, but he wanted to be closer to his job. So. What he was doing basically at that point in his life as he was working all day spending time with his kids and then he was pretty much alone in this bare bones apartment. So before long he was online dating. and. He did eventually meet a woman named Liz. So. This is one of the major protagonists in this story. Crazy woman pay close attention. So, Liz is about the same age as Dave. Maybe a little older, maybe a couple of years. This is slim had big breasts which Dave, really liked and long dark hair. The I met at a restaurant to talk and drink coffee. and Dave thought she was very attractive. Now, he hadn't been dating for very long. So pretty nervous about this date. and Liz came across to him. As very intense and sexy they both had kids around the same age. So they had something in common to talk about. David told, Liz how his long-term relationship had recently ended? And he wasn't looking for a serious relationship. Liz nodded said I understand. She was busy with their own kids she said, and she just opened her own business called Liz's housekeeping. Yes. So the to head a few coffee dates and he finally got up the nerve to kiss her he said on their fifth date then they had sex that same night and continued to hookup on a regular basis. Liz clearly liked him and he liked her but after a few weeks, he became restless. He was attracted to her at he definitely enjoyed the sex, but he didn't feel much of a mental or emotional connection between them. He said she was always really enthusiastic for the physical part of their relationship, but they didn't have much to talk about. Dave was fairly smart. He liked to read and he was interested in politics and Liz wasn't a reader. So, she wasn't really capable of discussing anything that interested him like current events even and even though he was leading this life is a mechanic he was a reader he did have you know an intellectual side. And if he ever did commit, he thought he would need a woman who could have some meaningful discussions with him. So. He did continue to pursue other women but he never hid that fact from lizzy always told her. That that's how it was and continued seeing her but obviously, she wanted more, she just wasn't admitting it. Will Yeah. His spouting all this crap about her how I like to read and I need someone to discuss things with I need a mental here. You don't like him. I'm sorry I'll start talking about. So. Just about a month into seeing each other list got quite clingy. She apparently wanted more than Dave was willing to give her. Dave told her that he enjoyed spending time with her but it was only casual sex friendship. He would never be your boyfriend. Well. That sounds like a good thing for Liz. Well, you now okay I. See what you're saying about what he's saying is very Dick Ish because if he doesn't WanNa have a commitment as soon as a woman seems like she wants to he should not be with her at all. He's kind of leading her along by continuing to have sex with her. Even though he knows she wants more. So way I look at it were sure look at their way to admit he keeps saying he was up front and he told her that but that's not how emotional work. Well and he's he's upfront entire that he doesn't act upon it. Well he says I'll continue having sex with you but that's it which isn't the way it's supposed to well because you're gonNA think that as long as. Close to him and having sex with him, there's a possibility of long-term relationship. That's the impression he's giving her right, right? Yeah. He's not really rejecting her totally. So she's being strung along and I I can see that okay. So I can see in that way I think he was you know kind of an idiot but if liz called an s to get together, he said he was up front you said well, I have a date with another woman and expected her to accept that. And she would try to see mine concerned but her behavior show that this was really bothering her. And a lot the lot laundry we did bother. Yes. Apparently more than anyone knew. Well, this is where we get into some of the games that started to be played. Yes. So Liz would begin showing up at Dave's apartment. Just, before he was ready to go out on a date I, don't know how she knew. I guess. He must've told her he's gone out on a date. But Liz would show up she would show up wanting sex, which he was happy to do with her always such a nice guy. Yeah. But. Then he noticed the pattern that was. Would show up and sexy clothing after he got home from work and have sex with him just before he went out as like, she is trying to wear him out. So that he was gonNA be less likely to sleep with his date. After he had been together with Liz. they you know he still young. And this predates sex didn't stop him from having sex with someone else later in the evening. Sure. But I think that should have been a sign right there that maybe you shouldn't see this woman anymore. He. Did say he encouraged lists to see other people and even warned her that she was wasting her time if she expected him to change. But. This said she couldn't date more than one man at a time. It just wasn't her thing besides she really liked Dave but her jealous side was very soon revealed. After, Dave would return from visits with his children. Liz would accuse him of sleeping with amy their mom. Well, that's probably not for out accusation and probably still was well, we don't know that. Knowing. How Dave operates from in this on now you know date okay. They've been like this. Well Liz became very passive aggressive. According to him she was nagging him. I don't like that word I. Think it's a little sexist, but that's what he said. So he broke up with her several times, but she'd always return and offer him sex and he would cave in and go along with it. So I'm sure it was really reluctantly that he did that when Liz was an obsessing over amy. Women Dave thought she was fun to be with then in. September two, thousand, twelve Liz insisted on talking about the direction of their relationship. She was reading his refusal to commit as a sign that he just couldn't show his true feelings and she wanted him to tell her how he really felt about her and not wanting to hurt her dave said, he told Liz that she was attractive any cared about her but then he said, I'm never going to make a commitment to you. So what Liz proposed was this idea of a four week temporary commitment to move their relationship forward and I guess she really pushed that he tried to ignore it for awhile but she was sending these long emotional emails and then he tried that it's not you. It's me thing to break up with her but she wasn't going to give up I guess. least that's the way he saw it. And then Dave mccarey. Your he met her the old fashioned way in person as we said earlier, she brought her car and for a minor repair and there is an instant attraction. Carey was tall confident and beautiful day felt like the attraction is mutual. But since he was at work and she was a customer, he didn't act on it. That's probably a good thing. You're. But two weeks later while he was on the plenty of fish website, he saw carry hit a profile on there. So he got excited any center a message hi I know you and carry wrote back and they had a short little friendly interaction. Then a couple of weeks later, Carey was back at the shop with her explorer and Dave went out to the parking lot to look at one of her car's windows that had been sticking. And they're they started chatting and had this real chemistry. So they ended up exchanging phone numbers. But you know when all this happening, he was still seeing lists. and. Maybe some other women who knows I'll? Share. Now he he and Liz went to a big Halloween party in October of two thousand, Twelve Lewis had made them togas out of white sheets. And she has so many take their picture as she was cuddling up to him the matching togas made them look like a real couple but Liz was disappointed again because his dave's attitude wasn't changing. He seemed more distracted than usual and she thought that he had another woman on his mind and we think he did we think he was really into carry at this point. Well at least in his mind while sure he was very interested in her room and three days after that party carrying Dave had their first state. They met an applebees. They had drinks and a great conversation and he found carry to be very witty. She made him laugh. He learned that she was a computer programmer, an expert coder which impressed him I'm always impressed with people who can code per it is she worked for West Corporation which was located less than a half a mile from Dave's apartment. And she lived in Macedonia Iowa with her now teenage son Max. So David enjoyed his time with cary but he was constantly distracted that night by a flurry of texts and phone calls from Liz. He tried to ignore it but then finally excused himself and called her back and Liz said that she left some things at his apartment that she really needed right now and she couldn't wait. So of course that was annoying, there's no reason why she suddenly needed to get her toothbrush and some pots and pans and a couple of t-shirts that she left at his apartment. So he told her that he was on a date and he couldn't drop everything and they do it another day. And he and cary ate dinner and then he invited carry back to his place. So carried drove herself and met David is apartment complex before they could even sit down though his phone began ringing and then the security doorbell buzzed in. That was loud. So they really couldn't ignore that buzzer. The Intercom was broken. So he had to go down to the building's front door and there was lists on the other side of the glass door, and now she was insisting that she needed her stuff right that very minute. and Dave said I have a date here and that's when she began to cry and said, you know you better let me and I need my stuff and just wouldn't let it go. So, think there's a sign there that this woman's not stable. You. Thank. You can call him a Dick. You know all you want, but there's something wrong with her clearly. There is an will learn more about that. Won't we? Yeah I. Guess Sort of his problem is he didn't recognize what he was dealing with their. Well, which might be hard to do he may or not have. He might also have been thinking to himself. I can get laid anytime. She wants to come over. Why would I get rid of her? Yeah. That's part of that is little P. Brain works it could be. So the Dave went back inside and explained his situation to carry and apologized. Now. He says a carry was understanding about the situation and laughed it off. She told Dave call me when everything straightened out. He walked out to the door. As they're leaving listed, Neva acknowledged carry. Then, Dave letter in they went up to his apartment and had an argument. Joe It looks to me like you've been wrapping up more gifts over the past month. Yeah. We've had a real uptick in subscribers to T. C. B.? Premium. I think it might be due to the added benefit of ad free versions of all of our shows that were offering now. So now Tigra grabbers get a bonus episode each month. And the free gift of their choice but they can even get weekly episodes without the ads. They deserve it. Our listeners are kind loyal and they send US excellent comments in case suggestions. Don't you think Oh, absolutely it's true. Our listeners are the best. No kidding. Thanks Tigers. Yea. If you haven't subscribed to the premium show and you're interested just dropped by Thai grabber dot com and it out, see what you think. A great idea. wiz wanted to stay and talk about the relationship but dave insisted get your stuff and leave. Yes said at that point? He shouldn't have seen her anymore. Really. nope. But we don't know if that would have really changed anything because she was definitely not right mental I. Don't think it would have. Because of her obsession with this but certainly didn't help did at note, right? So. It was only nine pm that night when Dave called Kerry after Lizard left his apartment and carry invited him out to her place. So he was really excited to go see her. This was about a forty five minute drive. and carry lived in a small two bedroom house she had purchased from her grandparents. So really charming little place and they had the whole place to themselves because her son was spending the night at his grandparents house. So Dave really liked carry right from the beginning. He thought she was really laid back beautiful, smart and funny. She. Also seemed really independent and self sufficient, which was really attractive to him. That was very different from other women he'd been with. So they began kissing on her couch and before things got any further carried stopped him and told him that she wasn't looking for commitment if they were going to have sex that's all it was. so He loved that. She had had several bad relationships and wasn't ready to get serious and she liked her freedom and didn't wanNA give it up. So that's like music to his ears harm. Sure. Must have thought he'd hit the mother lode or something. Absolutely. So they both wanted the same thing and certainly relief not to feel pressured. so not surprisingly Dave's ended up spending the night a carries. There are both busy with their kids in jobs, but they managed to see each other. Pretty, much every other day. Let's is pretty hot and heavy I. Think this is. A brand new relationship yeah neither one of them WanNA relationship is the funny part. Must have been good sex. Yeah. Maybe but still you know Liz wasn't gonNA give up now. No Way. On November first, she sent Dave along kind of incoherent email. It was urging Dave to talk about his feelings and she said she would never expect him to stop seeing other women and she didn't expect him to make a commitment to her but then less than twenty four hours later she sent an email with a totally new tone. This was very abrupt and biting. She was offended that he hadn't answered her earlier email. So, he just ignored that. which probably didn't make us happy probably not but according to Dave he and Carey were just getting along great sometime in the next week Liz called for more items that she'd left a Dave's place and he planned to just drop the stuff off. But he wasn't even in Liz's door when she came onto him and the ended up having sex right there, and then it loses place and I guess lists felt happy like she made him forget about Kerry but you know that only lasted for the duration of the sex, he still wanted to see Carey. So that wasn't changing anything or things changed and he really I just feel like it was irresponsible for him to sleep with our knowing how she feels about him. They've for his part. So the encounters fun. And that was it in his mind his relationship with Liz over. An assist last fling. Right. Got To tell Liz that. This differently though. November tenth she tried to set up a date with Dave. Now he turned her down. So she became more and more unhinged Lee Ya at this point she's totally obsessed with this guy. Totally. Yes. So I I'm going to take just a minute here to go into a little bit of Liz's history. Or think that's important because she really did have a history of on stable jealous behavior in her relationships. About, ten years before Dave Liz had been the very jealous ex girlfriend of a guy named Dirk roads. And Dirk began seeing a twenty two year old named Melissa Strom when Liz wasn't over dirk yet. In fact, at that point, she was obsessed with Dirk. Dirk had a two year old son named Peter. Who Melissa really began to? But Peters Mom Liz was a problem. So she had a kid with Dirk. They'd broken up and Liz is not dealing with it well. You're they were extensively sharing custody of Peter they were. Yes. So when Dirk met Liz still going by her real first name, which was Shana. and. She was already a single mother of a girl named Trina who was about to when she met Dirk. So it was only a short time after dirk began seeing Liz winless got pregnant by him. And they stayed together because of the baby. But Dirk would say that Liz was just constantly jealous and she would accuse dirk of infidelity on a regular basis even though he'd been faithful but he just couldn't take the possessiveness and that's the main reason they broke up. And after he moved out of Liz's house. Dirk Melissa. Whence Liz found out the dirk was seeing someone. She began showing up uninvited and unexpectedly. Dirk tried to be polite. He introduced Melissa Liz. But Liz was angry and hostile towards. Melissa? Yeah one day Melissa was at Dirks apartment while he was at work and someone begins banging on the apartment walls and this would turn out to be Liz. Throwing furniture and personal items that belong to irk at the apartment door. She knew Melissa was there because Melissa's car was in the lot. And before she left, she piled up so high that even the people on the door was blocked. So this incident had really terrified Melissa. Thinking that Liz's coming after her. and. She didn't know what all the loud banging was at first. So when she told Dirk about it, she was kind of you know crying and upset but he told, Melissa, she was overreacting. Jesus. Yeah he was just kind of. These. Guys are just not getting it. These not much better than Dave in that department where you don't have to raise the bar too high to be better than. Any well, anyway was very attentive father, but Liz would use that to manipulate him and Melissa could see that Liz Keyed Melissa's Mitsubishi Eclipse while at darks place and she'd keyed it so bad that it costs thirty, seven hundred dollars to repair. So this was more than a little scratch, your yeah. Then it was weird because Liz began to take a pharmacy tech course and that was Melissa's profession. Hurts Weird. Then Liz got extensions to make her hair long like Melissa. and. She bought a similar car Mitsubishi. Some Melissa thought. This was creepy. Dirk would just say Oh you're overreacting. Choose. So Melissa and Dirk eventually married. and. They did have a son together Liz never stopped stocking them. Until, they did divorce the marriage didn't last long and then several months after the divorce list stopped stocking. took. Awhile. She committed identity theft she purchased over five hundred dollars in cleaning supplies. Using a credit card that she had taken out and Melissa's name. This is used to start or housekeeping business. Remember she told Dave that that's what she is doing. Yeah, she she did kind of start it, but it never really took off and I don't think she worked very hard at it. She was too busy stocking people and in two thousand twelve as she was pursuing this relationship with Dave she was already in a relationship with another man at the time and this guy's name was Garrett Sloan and it seemed like she was just using the sky. So he had a pleasant suburban childhood but he also grew up with some obstacles he had purchased disease. So, he had to wear braces on his legs your that's a hip disorder. So not a good thing to have. You get arthritis nasty stuff. Well, he had uneven leg length and had surgery, but it only partially corrected it. So his experiences with the condition led him to earn his bachelor degree in Exercise Science, and once he began working in that field, he was really attracted to the computer technology and ended up becoming an IT specialist and he worked for pot. Awada. Me County. Garrett didn't have many girlfriends partly because he had a weight issue. But by September two thousand and ten, he had lost fifty pounds and his feeling pretty good about himself. So he posted his profile online and talked about his plan to continue lose any extra weight. And that's how he met Liz Online. Yeah about two years before she met. Dave on their first date losing Garrett watched a movie at his place. Liz was insulted the Garrett head made any moves on her and tried to have sex with her. Garrett found himself having to convince her that is just getting to know her and is trying to be a gentleman when they finally did become Intimate Caravan Liz to be kind of robotic and lacking passion. So this is really different from how she was with Dave, the way that he tells it. So I guess I'll I can get from that as she was just using. Garrett and she was really into Dave. And that's the only reason I can see that being an issue. She did show her jealous site with Garrett. But you know he had didn't have much experience any saw that as a sign that she cared about him. So he was kind of flattered fool he. In about two months into his relationship with Liz he was contacted on Yahoo Messenger by man who said he was listening boyfriend. So third guy and his name was Alan and he told Garrett that Liz still lived with him. She's a busy woman that Liz. So Garrett confronted lives, and of course, she denied everything to the point where he ended up apologizing to her and that's kind of our worked in this relationship. When he thought about it, he realized that he had never been to loses place. Also, another thing about Liz what she never show affection to him in front of other people. So most people didn't even know they were a couple. So he's definitely being used and seems to be few weeks later, Lucent Garrett a text telling him that she is moving back in with Alan. So exist saddened Garrett but he accepted it and he moved on. Then, just after the New Year. Liz Texted Garrett and asked to meet him for lunch and a talk, and at this restaurant this told him that Shia kicked Alan out and it was over for good. She said she missed and she wanted to try again. Right. But I mean, the whole pattern was just using him. She brought her sister and her children to Garrett's apartment building to use the pool, and then one day Garrett saw Liz her children and another man swimming in his apartment complexes pool. So enlists saw him. She had ignored him there and the next time Garrett spoke to her he was telling her how hurt he was by that behavior. But she turned it around on him. Saying that the guy she brought over was just a friend in what's your problem? You're too jealous. and He fell for that for a couple of years anyway. Your who did in June of two thousand, Twelve Garrett bought a house in council bluffs and he'd known Liz for almost two years by then and felt like they were getting along. And also, he didn't mind that she needed his financial help lot. so He'd give her money to cover her bills. He was very understanding that she was a struggling single mother and he was always there to Babysit for her too when she had to work nights Liz didn't tell Garrett any specifics about this cleaning business, but he accepted that night shifts were part of the deal. So Liz till Garrett that in addition to running your own business, she was taking classes to become a dental hygienist and working part time as a nurse. He didn't know where she worked never even bothered to ask I guess but just believed her. And despite all the our she was supposedly working, she was always short on money. But he thought he loved her and he was proud to be able to help her and that's the way it went for a while. You're now on July fourth twenty. Twelve. Garrett's noticing it loses losing interest in really seeming to be. In zero watching a fireworks Liz was texting with your mechanic. She told Garrett Oh it's just an innocent thing and he really wanted to believer. But. At the same time, it's hard to imagine Liz in her mechanic were texting for hours about car repairs. That's really I do that don't i. I mean you find a good mechanic? You don't WanNa. Lose and now and you WanNa talk to him for a few hours here there tore course and what she didn't tell Garrett of course is that she'd met this mechanic on a dating website and that she was sleeping with him. So Dave is a secret to Garrett and Garett is just as much of a secret to Dave. Today lists was really careful to present herself as this loyal girlfriend who just patiently waiting for him to realize that he was in love with her but that really wasn't who she was at all. No. In fact on October Twenty Six, twenty twelve when Liz was at that Halloween party with Dave in their togas Garrett was probably babysitting her kids. Yes should began to obsess over days relationship with Carrie. Garrett had no idea anything in their relationship was any different he continued to help with babysitting, giving her money and taking her and her kids have cast food joints. In the winter of two thousand, Twelve Garrett invited Liz to celebrate the holidays with his relatives but she wouldn't she had no interest in that. and. She didn't buy him a gift. He bought Christmas gifts for her and her children. Then on New Year's Day two thousand, Thirteen Garrett received a strange text from someone named. Carrie who said she was a friend of Liz. So things got very strange room of see how strange. Carey was on facebook with she received a friend request from someone named Sam Carter and she didn't recognize him. His photo was of an attractive fortyish man with dark hair and he was smiling wearing a suit. His profile said that he was from Kerry's hometown. Macedonia had a population of just over two hundred people also. So everyone knows everybody. Yeah and it was also out that he spelled Macedonia wrong with an E. instead of A. And when she looked at his post, though see photos of familiar places in Macedonia. But she didn't accept his friend request on November thirteenth she did send a private message. You know just saying, do I know you by this time Carey was spending several nights with Dave? And she was working on a project for work and Dave's apartment was super close inconvenient to her job. So her son Max was happy to spend some time with his grandma and she was able to skip the commute and get two hours off of her day. Once, the project was complete. She knew she'd have more time and she'd spend more time with her son going to his games and things. Sorted been two weeks since David Carey's first day and on. November. Thirteenth they got up early and Dave left for work at six twenty five. When he left carry was on her computer sitting on his couch working on her project she was still in her pajamas and she was smiling joking with him and they were both looking forward to spending that evening together when they both got home from work. In our carry didn't show up for work that morning and this confused her supervisor. For one thing carry was reliable and she always called issues going to be late. And in fact that very morning she had called in at six fifteen to give an update on the coding she'd completed. then. She planned to verify the work when she arrived and her co workers were waiting for. So I am the supervisor talks to her that very morning she says, here's what I've done. I'll be in surely to go over stuff but by mid morning is still no sign of carrying. So her supervisor called her. But Gutter voicemail. She left a message and she continued to try and reach carry all day. Carries Laptop live or facebook account at six, forty, two in the morning at nine, fifty, four, her phone log onto facebook and Dave Kroupa was unfunded. So. That was weird very, and then twenty minutes later Dave got a text and the message was really shocking. It came from carries phone and she s Dave if they could move in together and he said, no, know that's not in our plans but just seconds later he got a text beck saying fine, fuck you don't contact me again I hate you go way. So this is weird because when he left his apartment, she smiling everything's fine. And then she on friends among facebook and sends them that text and I think a smarter man would say something's not right here but he just took it at face value that it was carry doing that you're I guess he's not as smart as he thinks he is probably not. Well. When Dave, went home that evening from work everything was quiet and there was no trace of carried his apartment. The abrupt break-up was really hard to believe though carried seemed really reasonable and positive. So he was disappointed but then he tried to look on the bright side. You know they don't even seeing each other for two weeks and if that's what she was really like then he'd really dodged a bullet that's one way to look at it. Sure. So he just decided to feel relieved and not get caught up in any more dramatic relationships because Liz was already handful. This was more than a handful. Now at the same time, Nancy, who's carries mom hadn't heard from her daughter for two days now then she received a strange text extensively from her the text said that she's going to take a new job. This is quite puzzling to Nancy because carried said, she really loved the job she had. She'd been working hard to complete a project so she could enjoy a weekend with family members at her half brother John's wedding back. Max was going to be an usher in the wedding. And at the same time, her father Danny was dying of stomach cancer and the wedding had been moved up so he would be able to attend. So everybody knew this was gonna be the last time that all in though would be together as a family. Yes. So it was kind of a big deal that she be at that wedding very big deal. But after that Tuesday morning text, there was no more contact from Kerry. Nancy did call her over and over again and she wanted to know when Kerry would be picking up Max to drive them to Des Moines for the wedding. There was a rehearsal dinner Friday, and they plan to spend the night at a hotel. But when Friday came and there was still no word from Kerry they really didn't know what to think and Nancy was worried. And carries father was at the rehearsal dinner, but he is too ill to attend the wedding itself. CARRIES ABSENCE OF CERTAINLY DISTURBING And the family was hoping all the time that they were there that she would show up. Because Kerry was not the type of mom who would be out of touch with their child for more than a day. So people thought that something definitely was wrong yes. She missed the wedding and also she didn't show up for a friend's baby shower which she was supposed to host her. That's a tough one. Yeah. So that following Friday Nancy called the police report her missing and when the officer from the county sheriff showed up at Nancy's house. He really didn't share her degree of concern about Carey. So that was frustrating they pretty much thought Kerry was a grown woman who didn't have to check in with her mom. But Nancy do that carry win just leave her son behind. She knew of course, she doesn't have to check in with me, but she always has. So something's outright. Your will I and I think we've seen that police departments are taking this more seriously now that it's not just an automatic twenty, four hours, forty, eight hours whatever we'll share but this is only eight years ago. and. I think it was mishandled I. Mean it was really an extraordinarily long time before the police took her disappearance seriously and I guess that's because they were believing that she was communicating. Looking into carries facebook activity. They saw that Sam Carter had answered carries a message by saying that they had attended Iowa Western community college together. Notably Sam's grammar was as bad as spelling. Just. A week before Sam's friend requests carry had rejected a friend request from someone named Amber Mildew. An ambush photo was of a slim laud wearing big sunglasses. According to both facebook pages, amber and Sam were both from Macedonia but they both had spelled it incorrectly, they both had used an e instead of an egg. Yeah. So really weird. And everyone in Macedonia knew each other but no one knew Sam or amber. Interesting yes. So there's no real evidence that Kerry was endanger and her case turned out not to be a big priority for law enforcement she was treated as a missing person and her name was entered into the national database. So, this meant that if her driver's license was checked anywhere in the country. The results show her as a missing person. I'm sure there's not a high yield on that, right? Now I. Mean. You just have to happen to be pulled over I guess right? So while carries families worrying about her. Dave Kroupa is becoming afraid of her. Because within days of that text break-up, he began getting angry texts from carries phone. The messages had terrible grammar and spelling. And they focused on Liz calling her a fat ugly Hor. Carry, it seemed unfazed been lives had showed up at his apartment that first night. But now she seemed like this obsessive Jealous Person. So it was just weird. Yes. Shoes things don't add up do they now but Dave just seems kind of oblivious. So lose called Dave to tell him that his crazy ex was harassing her also. And she wanted to know how could have gotten her phone number and address. According to Liz carry it broken into her garage painted whore from Dave on a wall. And what does that even me? Weird thing. I don't know Dave had planned to see Liz again he said, but he felt obligated to meet with her to discuss this harassment which he felt kind of guilty about Liz, described the vandalism on her garage door and she also said that some checks had been taken. So she reported this to the Omaha Police Department. Then, Dave soon received an email from carry admitting to breaking into the garage. Then one of the check showed up in a photo that was texted to Nancy's phone from Carey's phone. And this check was made out to Kerry and signed by Liz's legal name. Shana, gullion. So the memo indicated that the check was for the purchase of carries bedroom furniture. and. What Kerry had sent a message about was she wanted Nancy to let the buyer come and pick up her furniture. So very convoluted, very convoluted. It is. So some of the furniture were antiques the carry head inherited from her distant relatives. Nancy, couldn't believe carry would sell it. She texted back that she needed to hear carries voice I. So she knew the texts was coming from her. By, this time. Is Pretty sure that it wasn't Carrie who's doing texting? Whoever it was lashed out after that until Nancy she assists to bed mother. Carrie would never have done that. And side from the Nastiness of the texts, the grammar was horrible. and carry was always meticulous about her grammar and language Skills Leon even punctuation. So. As time passed and Nancy talked to law enforcement more and more she told them that carry had a history of anxiety and that one doctor had diagnosed her with bipolar disorder. So, officer said they were familiar with the disorder and that people often stop taking their meds and had these kind of meltdowns. So they're kind of brushing it off again, and this was just impossible for Nancy to accept I mean, the idea was appealing in many ways because if Kerry had a mental breakdown, she was still a lot. But. Why wasn't Carrie calling and talking to her or her son? Nancy wondered if Carey was being held against her will and being forced to send these texts, I mean, maybe these grammatical errors were made on purpose kind of as a message to her family that something's wrong. Sure. Can Syria think that? Yeah, I mean we'll all these things are going through Nancy's mind because it's just so hard to understand, and of course, the whole family's just bereft. They are no contact with who they think is Carrie. If you tell someone who sends you a text, you know just call so I can hear your voice why wouldn't they? Yes Nancy did wonder about this guy that Kerry had been seeing an Omaha. She did know that his name was Dave. But she didn't know his last name and she didn't have any contact information. She certainly would have been shocked if she had been able to see the texts Dave had been receiving. Or to hear about the vandalism allegedly done by carry. Right because this is her daughter, she knows that she wouldn't do those things. Right, so we have two different law enforcement agencies in two different states doing two different investigations with neither one knowing the others case and I think sooner a big part of the reason why this took so damn long police in Iowa though it carried left on our own police. Nebraska, believe the break in at Liz's house had been an isolated incident. Deputy Randall Phillips of the Pot Awada Mickey Sheriff's Department. was assigned to the case, and this is just three days after Kerry had been reported missing. The first thing he did was send texts and call and left a message on her phone. To which he never responded when he interviewed her supervisor and Co Workers, they said that the less day they seen was Monday. The day before she disappeared. And at that time she'd given no indication anything was wrong or that she had planned to move away. So. If Kerry still headphones, she could be located by cellular tower pinks and police said narrowed her location down to an area of just a few blocks and they searched that area for her vehicle, the Ford Explorer, but had no luck so that picture of the check that carry had texted to her mom was looked into. and. It was a starter check with no name or address printed on it but the signature Shana Golyer was legible. So detectives went to Liz's house, and this was a rental where she had reduced rent under Section eight and when they learned that Liz carry in Davor in this love triangle that kind of made them Wanna speak to her. Absolutely. Lose told the detectives carry it blamed her for the up with Dave. And the checkbook had been stolen from her garage. When they went to talk to David Hi at tire, he told them about all of the texts that he'd been receiving. Yes. So at this point to police, it just seems like Carey is a stalker. And if carry was stocking, David Liz, she may have been hanging out near loses house. They recognize that it was possible that carry no longer was in possession of her phone but they thought it seemed really far fetched that someone would be impersonating her and sending these texts. So they made this poor conclusion that Kerry was jealous and behaving like a woman scorned and just kind of let it go at that for a while. But. After detectives left high tire, Deputy Phillips got a text from carries number. So this text read. I don't care about this missing person report, but I would really appreciate it. If you leave Dave Kroupa out of it, I will be leaving the state. My mother overreacted I've been to my house a few times. Doesn't Phillips. Wonder about this text how would carry no that he was investigating Will because he tried to call her and they left a message on her phone. Okay. Right Yep. I guess he kinda took it at face value, but to speak with her before anything was going to change. No kidding. So Phillips responded to Carrie's phone that if she was to be stopped by police, she would be held until the matter was settled her missing person report would not be removed from the database until investigators could verify that she was. Okay. Right and that meant speaking to her that's right. Carries phone responded Dave texted me and said, you had the sheriff at his work please stop talking to people have nothing left to say to anyone I want one person to go away for destroying everything for me. So this is really crazy stuff. No Kid who's ever writing this stuff is really not mentally well, no this is just kerner mushrooming into a whole bunch. Of different things. Yeah and it just seems like in some ways silly you know and just not believable. But basically, for Dave, the whole thing was just wearing on them and making him tired. Then one night as he sat alone watching TV he got a text from carries phone saying that she could see him in the chair in a blue shirt and this was accurate. So he was quite startled her this is. contemporaneous thing. Yes. Someone's watching it here. So he ran outside to look for, but the woods around the complex were really dense and unlit and he didn't find anybody. They're also incessant calls to his workplace that were threatening his job 'cause he wasn't working on the phone then his ex amy began to get threatening texts. Their kids were threatened. Dave wouldn't let them out of sight when they visited him. Yeah. But Dave started dating Liz again and they were kind of comforting each other. Because they were both being harassed. In sometimes when they were hanging out together, they would both receive an email at the same time. Liz's phone was usually across the room in her purse when this happened. Even. Though. Dave. Hadn't been the one to break up with Carrie protects began to take on this kind of romantic tone as if they were still a couple. And she repeatedly referred to Liz as whore but then she'd say she was really looking forward to seeing Dave again says just to his are more and more. Carry seem to continue. Being on facebook. Presence there. Anyway on November twenty first she announced she has moved to Kansas for a new job. Then on November twenty sixth, she referred to Davis her great Guy Dave hadn't seen her since the morning she sent him break-up texts. So the fact she was seeing them as a couple made her seem mentally ill and delusional well, sure while Nancy knew that either someone was impersonating her daughter or carry had really lost her mind. So, Nancy and MACs were really worried and confused Nancy knew that carry loved her son. But if she was alive, she definitely wasn't in her right mind. So Nancy made this difficult decision to go to the court to get guardianship of Max. And if Kerry returned and she was okay, the guardianship could be reversed. It's a good move by her. Yeah. I mean she was kind of afraid that if carried did have a breakdown, she might pick him up and he could be in danger. Right? So on January six, two, thousand, thirteen. Nancy logged onto facebook and so new message from carry. This was a new page created her name. She apologized for missing her father's funeral. Then when Nancy Astor to call so she could hear voice. carries. Responses. Very. Defensive. She was angry but said, she would call it some time. She. said she was grateful that her mother had her son. But said that she could leave her son and move on with someone new. Very weird stuff certainly for any kind of mother say that. So, Nancy was pretty certain that this wasn't carry communicating with her. I mean after that, there was this bizarre posts that showed up on Carey's new facebook page, and it was a hand with a diamond engagement ring with the caption reading, Dave and I got engaged. Nancy could recognize that it wasn't carries hand. So this whole new facebook page was definitely the work of an impostor. So I feel like if police had just looked into that and checked IP addresses, they could have figured this out sooner instead of taking three years. Probably, on that same day that the ring picture was on the facebook page, Dave received an email from someone claiming to be Kerry. and. It read. You will do exactly as I say and then I will let her go. So there was a photo attached that showed a woman in a car trunk with duct tape over her mouth in her hands tied behind her back. He couldn't tell if it was Liz but the woman did have dark hair. and. There was another message saying you will dump Liz and you and I will start seeing each other again. So really bizarre but Dave was a little worried that maybe it was Liz in the picture. So to be sure he texted Liz, to find out and Liz was fine. then. On January eighth Dave who's driving through his apartment parking line and he noticed a vehicle buried in the snow. Does snow in Nebraska right absolutely. Doesn't it snow a lot there? Can. Look like the car had been driven several days turned out a black Ford explorer carries car. So, how is Kerry getting around without a car? Dave did know that it wasn't there since November when she disappeared. So called the police, they towed it to the Omaha Police Department impound lie, right? So November carried disappeared from his apartment and then he finds the car in the parking lot in January eighth but there was a big time period between then where no one knew where the car was then it was brought back there. have been brought back there. Yes. It's very strange. She'd been reported missing an Iowa, but she had actually disappeared in Nebraska. So her case was still being handled in two states in two counties and I really think that there continued to be some confusion because of that. Or no question coordinate things together, right? Yeah. So David, Liz showed investigators the abusive texts that were sent to them by this supposed stalker and they were thousands of messages for them to scrutinize. They signed waivers to the to the contents of their cell phones to be downloaded, and this meant that they could have access to both data that had been deleted and not deleted. But I don't think Liz knew that the deleted stuff could be found and brought out. Right? She's she's figuring probably. That if I deleted it, it's gone forever. I think so. Now. Lizard. Backed off asking Dave commitment. But then she began to ask him for one night a week devoted to her. She made Dave feel guilty for all. She was enduring from his ex girlfriend Kerry said Dave. Finally agreed that Wednesday nights would be a good time to set aside to be with Liz Nice in. Well. I guess he was just really impressed that she was being so loyal to him and they were kind of bonding over being harassed. Example how stupid this guy is? Well Yeah I don't know stupid stored but kind of oblivious to things and not real sharp on no human behavior at least. But you know he thinks well, Liz putting up with all this stuff for my ex girlfriend and she's still being loyal to me and she doesn't want commitment. She says so I don't know if he should buying everything she says, but he did think that the stocking had brought them closer together. And of course, that's what Liz wanted all along. Yep. So in that way, it's working for lists. Yeah. Was To this point. Yeah. So carries a Ford her explorer was thoroughly processed by a crime scene technician. No fingerprints on the exterior. An inside the vehicle is very clean. Clean to clean. In fact to cloth seats still had vacuum Markson. And there is a faint pink stand in the middle of the front passenger seat. There are very few things inside, but the rear cargo area had jumper cables and empty grocery bags. So it seemed that the entire car had been wiped down because there were no prints on the car itself, but there was a fingerprint fast on an empty mid container that had been left in the. Cup holder between the two front seats and I would imagine the person who was wiping down the interior of the car would have picked that up to clean underneath it, and then just didn't remember to wipe off the mint container the move. Well, yeah. So this print was scanned and entered into the system, but there was no match. So whoever's it was didn't have a criminal record. West Corp had depositor carries last paycheck into a checking account. There is a balance in this account, ten thousand dollars or so. With no withdraws being made. There were two transactions that were kind of suspicious. Her Debit Card had been used twice in November. Whence Walmart, and once at a dollar store both stores were in Omaha and both occurred over a week after carried last been seen. An alert had sent to carry and she hadn't responded. So the bank froze her debit card. And at the same time, carries family continued to get facebook messages from someone claiming to be carry, and that just seems really hurtful to me. I mean beyond whatever happened to carry the fact that someone would pretend to be her and harass her family like that is just awful. So removes Nancy told police that someone had stolen carries identity, but they didn't believe her then we get to April two, thousand, thirteen about five months after Kerry went missing. And Nancy, got a call from a man. WHO said he was Dave. KROUPA. and. He said Kerry had called him and she was at a homeless shelter in Omaha. So, Nancy was nervous but really excited by the possibility that her daughter might be alive and it just had a mental breakdown. So whatever was going on, she wanted to bring her home and help her get better. But she was smart enough not to mention it to carry son because she knew it could be a false alarm which it would turn out to be. So her husband mark was out of town and she got her brother Jeff to drive her to the shelter. Nancy called the police the agreed to meet her at the shelter. And once at the shelter, the police went inside and had nancy wait outside the a photo carey in with them. But then they came out of the shelter alone huge disappointment Carey had never been there nobody recognized her so it was all just some weird prank chester mother prank. And when Dave was contacted by the police, he denied that he had made that call. Then about a week later April twenty second mark rainy gave the police permission to search carries house. But nothing was found there to help them I mean remember she was in Omaha when she went missing. So nothing really happened at her house. So, then in May Maxine, a message to carries new facebook page. He was in agreement with his grandmother that page had likely been created by an impostor, but he wanted to be sure. So at first he messaged high. Hi. And the response was weird said, Hey, little man. Now. Carry it never called him little man. And he now fourteen year old. So suspicious, Steph. Max typed in three questions to give the person away to prove shoes carry. What is my. Middle Name. What was the name of our first boxer and who is my best friend growing up? There was no response the same time, the person who is sending these emails and stuff continue to do so. To Dave and Liz. And she began to threaten loses children. Calling them ugly just like their horror mother. Such seemed like Liz was the victim here. But the harassment also started going out to anyone who Dave dated. On May eighteenth the facebook imposter uploaded a new profile picture of Kerry and this was a photo of her with her dad that had been taken about a month before he died. And it had been taken from her previous real facebook page. So someone had taken that and started a new page. So. There is some kind of computer knowledge there. Certain amount seems to be that summer. The mother of Dave's Children Amy had a window broken with the brick. and Dave got threats against his own children then. One Night Dave was walking home from a local bar. I guess he'd had too much to drink to drive home. So when he was walking across the parking lot to his apartment building, he saw someone crawling between a car and the building. And he recognized that it was Liz. He didn't do anything about it. But when he sobered up the next day, he did ask her about it and she claimed that she'd been drunk and didn't know what she was doing. So I don't know why he would let that go but he did. Told you why. Then one night when his daughter Callisto stayed up late she said, she saw a ghost in the house and she threw a shoe at it. The figure had retreated. So at the time Dave Dismiss, this story, his daughter just having an overactive imagination. But when he looked back on this, he'd thinking know could have been in his apartment. certainly could have been. Yes. Now that summer of two, thousand thirteen. Davis continuing to deal with stocker at the same time is getting more and more tired of Liz because she was nagging him more than ever and she has more jealous than ever. She kept insinuating. That they were sleeping with amy, the mother whose kids. In Beckmann Dave for started seeing Liz amy was also seeing a new guy in Amy's boyfriend drove her to pick up the kids at Dave's apartment. So when she called Dave to let him know he told her that Liz was there and amy was happy about that because now they could all meet each other and she wanted to know the woman who would be around her kits and Dave got along fine with Amy's new boyfriend but Liz was very hostile. She wouldn't even shake amy's hand she just glared at her so the kids didn't like Liz either but amy told the kids you need to be respectful to Liz because your dad likes her and she's Your Dad's girlfriend. So even amy is seeing it as more of a relationship. Yes. Well, it's the whole plan, right? Yeah. Yeah. Late in the night on August sixteenth two, thousand thirteen. Liz set on fire. The Fire Department was notified in the morning about house fire. They arrived in about five minutes. But the fire already burned out. Liz, was in the front. Yard. Carreno Renault people in the house but her pets, two dogs a cat and snake died in the fire. There were two suspicious things about the fire that we noticed right away. When was that? There was a guest cannon living room floor. Well. That's a giveaway. That's never a good sign is and there was evidence at the fire hit originated in multiple places. and they're also two catches damage by fire. But they were not close enough to each other. So the fire hadn't spread from one to another. So classic arson sounds like but Liz told the fire investigator about this jealous woman who'd been stalking her so she's really trying to lead them to think that Kerry, did this. and. She told them that she'd been working with the police to try and help catch carry. According to Liz carry had started the fire in an effort to murder her children. She believed she said, she had proof in the form of a threatening email and she showed them the email. It ended up that there were six separate areas identified where the fire had originated. So it was officially classified as arson. Dave was at work when Liz called him to tell him about the fire and he felt guilty and came to comfort her. So they got back together again spending their Wednesdays together, Birkin the routine at now Dave didn't know was that lizard been about to be a victim from that house it's a section eight rental. And she was moving into Garrett's house remember the Chubby guy she was using never lost weight. A little bit but I think he was still a little heavy anyway that doesn't matter but she's using that man a nice guy it sounds like. Right enlisted until Dave, the new address was she claims she was afraid Kerry would find out where she and her kids were Dave. Didn't know much about Garrett he didn't even know that he was actually Liz's boyfriend. Oh, not at all. She didn't want him to know that she didn't want anyone to know that. But by the end of August she was living in Garrett's basement and he said she rarely came out of the basement and she was just a real slob he babysat for her and he fed her kids and did all the stuff. But when she bought groceries or Cook, she wouldn't include him. So, he started to wonder if she was even working anymore because she never left to go to work. She just went out on Wednesday nights and she was often dressed up not wearing scrubs or whatever. So it was weird. So I, think he's kind of catching on that. She's not being honest with him. Slowly, Garrett had been getting messages from named carry since the beginning of two thousand thirteen. She was flirting with him and she was pretending to be LIZ'S FRIEND In late January. This mentioned Garrett that she was being harassed. But she wasn't specific about this. And then Garrett was contacted by the sheriff's Office for an interview. Right. So now we have Kerry supposedly contacting Dave Liz eight me and now Garrett, but being flirtatious with Garrett. So, this is all just some discombobulated crazy plot. router and Weirder, but Gareth was employed by the county. So it was odd win detectives asked him personal questions. They learned that he was in a relationship with Liz when they saw photo of Garrett on her phone data that they'd pulled up and they told gear at the photo had been labeled fat ass by Liz. So this was shocking and pretty painful for him. Right? He cares about her. Emmy thought she occurred about him. Yeah. But apparently, not at all. Then he learned that Liz was being harassed because she was dating this Guy Dave Kroupa. The mechanic as he knew him and detectives believed that listen Dave had given Garrett's contact information to carry trying to get carrying Garrett to become a couple. To get her to stop harassing them now if you can follow that. That's a tough one. Okay but detectives think that Liz and Dave took Garrett's contact information and sent it to their stocker who they said was Kerry. And are trying to pawn her off on Garrett. So leave them alone the idea of Liz plotting with another man against him was really painful for Garrett to absorb though. And that wasn't what was happening anyway Dave wasn't doing that. He wasn't. But certainly could have been Liz trying to get Garrett to like this person named Carey. I don't know. It's just weird. So Garrett confronted. Liz. I she denied everything and Garett ended up apologizing to her once again. It, occurred to Garrett that maybe the detectives had misled him to try and throw often get information from. That's kind of naive he was very naive but you know like I said he hadn't had a lot of experience with women and he was super shy and Liz was very manipulative I. mean she took manipulation to a whole new level for sure. So she was sending phony emails to Dave from Garrett claiming that Garrett was involved with Kerry and asking if they wanted to double date. Solicit hope that these emails were going to convince. Dave that Kerry was still alive I guess. In Dave showed no signs of doubting that carry was alive and she was the stocker. So, Liz Liz's definitely full Dave at least. And such a long time had passed since curious family had seen her they were completely convinced that the texts and messages they were receiving had not been written by Kerry your now in the spring of two thousand fifteen? New Detectives were assigned to carries case. And! TO AVOID TUNNEL VISION One of the detectives worked as if carry was still alive. And the other work the case is murder case. I was certainly beginning to look like she wasn't alive. She had withdrawn any of her money. She had used any of our credit cards or debit cards. Then the big question was well who sending all these texts. Why would carries killer personality for three years? I usually female victims are killed by an intimate partner or a family member so that certainly made Dave a primary person of interest. But as he was eliminated from Peo- I status the focus turn to Liz. And as they read emails and texts, Liz's obsession with day became more evident police found the from the two thousand, thirteen kidnapping hoax and the metadata on the phone showed it had been taken with an LG phone identical to the one Liz owned right. so that was the email that was sent with a picture of a woman who looked like Liz bound in the trunk of car. or it could have been the back of the explorer actually. On on December fifth of two thousand fifteen. Liz made a nine one one call from a deserted park. And this was dark creepy place at night it had to Omelette let parking lots. It was at six, forty, one pm but in December, it's pretty dark by then. And Liz was crying and she said I've been shot in the leg. She said that the assailant was a female who shot a couple of times but only hit her once. She was shot once in the thigh, but the bullet had hit the bone or any major blood vessels. So she was apparently lucky in that way. So. Liz said she'd been sitting on a bench about one hundred yards from her car when she was shot then she seemed to come to this realization all the sudden. It was amy flora she said Amy shot me. And she told a detective that amy had only appeared in yelled at her. So you like fucking Dave and then shatter ran off into the night. So. This is some story. Isn't it and to think you're GONNA get away with it is just idiotic and crazy. So what was her reason for being in this dark creepy place at night? Yeah. Good question. Anyway. So, Liz gets rushed to the hospital. Amy Sitting at home on her couch playing games on her IPAD, and she heard noises outside somebody is obviously outside her door. She called it who is it? Police, and she opened the door. She was confronted by three officers with guns that'll get your attention on it. Certainly, it would be terrifying. The police told Ab that lists had been shot and that she said, Abe, was the shooter. Ab was terrified but she couldn't help but laugh a bit. I. Mean it was crazy. She hated guns and the idea that she would have shot anyone just would not be believed by anyone who knew her anyway she'd been home for hours with their children and she agreed to let the police search her home. An officer called the hospital to let officers there. No that it didn't appear that amy was the shooter and when they told this to Liz, she said, well, it had sounded like, amy. Then, Liz Call Garrett to tell him she'd been shot. In Garrett had been getting suspicious of Liz and getting more and more concerned. She told him she was just going to. Walmart. So what was she doing in the dark part? But Liz asked him to come to the hospital. He said, well, no, I'm not bringing the kids there. So he called Dirk. And had dirk pick up the kids. Then Garrett did go to the hospital by himself. Garrett asked Liz if the shooting had something to do with Carrie and Dave has that's all he'd been hearing about through texts. Liz cried and didn't answer and she really couldn't give any good reason why she was at that Park. So Garrett you know naive maybe a little slow on the uptake, but he had finally figured that something bad's going on with lists. He'd been more than patient but now he wanted out of the relationship finally. List asked him to pick up some of her things and bring them to her in the hospital. She wanted a tablet to play games on. But when Garrett got to the house, he couldn't find the charger for it because remember she was quite a Slob. He finally got the charger from under her bed but was really shocked because he saw computer under there that had been stolen from his home in a burglary two years earlier. So it seems that Liz had staged burglary of his home. Yes, it does. So, this is good evidence for Garrett to start figuring out what's going on. Yeah. Just get the hell away from her Yup. Dave also is shocked when he heard about Liz's shooting. He went to see Liz but she didn't mention it amy had been the shooter. 'EM, US at the police station, and she agreed to take a polygraph. But she failed that. She had assumed wrongfully that if she told the truth, the politics would prove it but she was so nervous that she probably failed because their blood pressure and breathing rate were so elevated. Yeah, anything I could read about it. I think there's like an eighty to ninety percent accuracy on a polygraph. So ten to twenty percent, wrong I. Can certainly see why it isn't allowed in court. Kidding and despite her failing that test, she was quickly ruled out as a suspect. Her neighbors could verify that she'd been at home and when they showed up at her home, they'd touch the hood of her car. It was cold. So her car hadn't been driven recently. Back in two thousand thirteen, what they call a logical download loses phone had only retrieved existing data. But now they did a complete physical download and they found incriminating evidence that Liz had thought was irretrievable from her phone. One thing this had done was she used an APP called texting. and she tied it fake email accounts that she'd set up and Carrie's name. She used this account to send hundreds of threats to Dave in herself. And she was actually able schedule a messages to be sent ahead of time. So she could put in, I want this threatening message sent to my phone in Dave's phone at nine thirty knowing that she'll be sitting watching TV with David that time. So He's GonNa think there's no way that list could have done it right right. This way she could just sit on the couch and the message would pop up on their phones and she could just be an innocent victim. Produce. Sophisticated. Some of the things she did worse sophisticated. And some things were stupid. You're detectives got warrants for facebook Yahoo Google. Okay. Cupid twitter and a few other sites and they checked. Ip addresses. The emails associated with those and the dates when these accounts were made. So list probably had no idea that detectives were learning about her web of lies because she'd used proxy servers to conceal her Ip address and VPN's with our virtual private networks that will make it look like her device was tied to a remote computer. So those are all things that were pretty tricky. There were twenty thousand emails at least that had to be looked at. And then they also reprocess carries Ford Explorer. In an effort to locate late and blood. However no no evidence was found. Eliza story about being shot changed a little bit each time she told it. When one version she had seen a truck in the parking lot. Then in another version, she saw people walking around on the trail before the shooter showed up. With, said, she had been shot while sitting on a bench then she said she'd been on the ground. And the Council Bluffs Police Department and the county sheriff investigators. agree that Lizard Likely Shot. Herself. They got a warrant and they put a GPS tracker on. Loses car. then. They had it set up so that if her vehicle Gardner Amy's apartment complex, they would receive text alerts. Wow. Well Yeah. At this point, they're figuring out that Liz is posing his carry and probably did something to carry but now they're afraid she's going to do something to me. They think by telling them that amy shot her she's trying to set amy up as carries killer. Sure. The GPS tracker actually alerted the police many times each day because Liz would drive through a parking lot but she drive away. If. She'd stopped there for more than a minute officers were to rushed to the scene. Liz was called into the police station for an interview on December fourteenth two thousand fifteen. The detective explained to her that he was working on a missing persons case and that some remains had been found. said that they were waiting on an ID but that they believed the remains belong to carry leaf carver detectives had made this up in the hopes of getting information from Liz. So wasn't true. But now at least the investigation is starting to go in the right direction. It took a hell of a long time certainly did. This was as she had met Kerry. And she told him about the encounter, a Dave's apartment. She said that carry walked out as she was walking in and carry it called her a bitch. And this is the only timeless said she'd ever seen carry. Then she suggested to the police at amy could be the real stalker. The detective said, he hoped to build a case against amy. But. He didn't yet have enough evidence. So. He Asks Liz. If she had any evidence of threatening statements from Amy, please share them with the police. And guess what they're setting her up here. So four days after liz forwarded an email to the detective claiming to have received it for Mamie the subject line was I shot you. I guess that's pretty direct not subtle and the e mail read I shot you list to make sure Dave stayed away from you. I got rid of the gun. Looks like the police have been arrested me no, one has proved that it was me. So this is really stupid from someone who was pretty tricky with the computers. This is just so obvious. Not Super Clever. She'd fallen right into their trap really she confessed while pretending to be amy. But. The detective from the sheriff's Office wasn't investigating the shooting they were interested in carries murder. So they told lists, they needed specific carries murder to build their case against amy when of course, they're actually building their case against lists. Because they know, amy didn't do any of this birthright, right? That December Twentieth Liz forwarded. Email to the detective, and in this one, amy was giving details about Kerry's murder. So isn't that convenient? Yeah. Well, you know we know what the police are looking for. So I'm GonNa take care of this. Yeah. Let's give it off but this was a long rambling email. I'll just give you the highlights. So it said when I met Crazy Carey, she would not stop talking about Dave she tried to attack me but I attacked her with a knife. I, stabbed her three to four times in the stomach. Then I took her out and burned her I stuffed her body into a garbage can and it ended up in a dumpster. I will never admit this to Dave or the police. Dave will always take care of me and protect me so I will never go to jail. So I can just imagine the detectives were really happy to see this. Yes. They really encouraged Liz to share more details about the murder. And they're thinking you know a lot of this is probably true. It's probably true of what Liz did to carry probably. Yeah. No. So to get her going they told her don't tell Dave ABC killer but of course, she couldn't wait to tell Dave that because she's jealous of amy she wants to get rid of her to. She does. So then indeed, January of two thousand Sixteen Dave called the detectives. Asking about the secrets Lizard told him about amy so you're right this couldn't wait to talk to Dave. Now she told him right away and the the detective told Dave to avoid Liz cashews dangerous. Well. Yeah Dave. Knew that amy didn't do this. Liz been telling Dave that amy was dangerous. But the idea that amy could hurt anyone just couldn't happen. He knew that the detectives met with Dave and they explained that Liz was responsible for everything all of that harassment. And they couldn't tell him all the details but they told him that lives was behind carries disappearance, and now they were really worried that list would hurt amy or the children. So at the detectives requests Dave moved in with amy and the children. And this was all part of the plan to push Liz to become completely unglued. On February first of two thousand, sixteen Liz was super upset. She called the detective in tears. She. It. Looks like the only person who benefits is her first amy she gets to shoot somebody kill another person and move in with Dave. She went into why they hadn't arrested amy yet. So that's really weird. She gets to shoot somebody kill another person and move in with Dave as if while moving in with Dave is the big prize, the prize raise, it just shows so much craziness. Your then there amaury mill confessions from amy purportedly showed up and the emails describe carries, for Tattoos. And the Interior her home. Yet it in two months since carries Ford explorer had been searched. So now the police removed the front seats and peeled back the upholstery because remember there was that pink stain row the passenger seat when you pulled the upholstery off, had this large red stain that had saturated the foam. And did react to the Blue Star spray? So they were able to get some of carries hair from her mom and they swabbed carry son's cheek for DNA. and. They were able to figure out that the blood was carries. So now we definitely have a homicide. And thing that's worrisome. A little bit is that she's out there they haven't arrested her. It's very scary because she would definitely kill amy in a heartbeat. Infect February Dave was napping on amy's couch when Iraq came flying through the dining room window. The GPS LIZ's car placed her there at the same. Leah remember they had it. So it would balart and let them know if she stopped at ABC's place. So Liz was arrested she pled guilty. and was released on bond. This is the worry among investigators about how a rage was escalating or seem to be escalating, and it was entirely possible that she could kill again. We'll absolutely and she was willing to sacrifice her pets. We've tissue Dow pretty horrible I. CAn't Imagine. Liz's new apartment was search when she left for work in the morning and they took every electronic item including several cell phones. Also. They found a video camera that had belonged to carry that had been missing from her home. One of the cell phones proved to have been used to call Kerry's mother in April of two, thousand thirteen. So Liz had been the one to call Nancy and tell her that Kerry was in a homeless shelter Liz had an APP that could change her voice. So she would sound like a man and she'd said she was Dave. Lizard used Garrett's Internet and Wifi, and her activity was linked to the impersonations of Kerry and Amy. And a picture was found of the interior of carries car, and this picture was from December two, thousand twelve. So just weeks after carried disappeared. and. This was while the explorer was supposedly missing. So why would she have been able to take a picture of carries car? If carries car was missing? Why indeed. So Liz was arrested at her job and this is for an unpaid traffic ticket. She was taken in with a detective for interrogation and they're asking her questions about Carrie. When asked us? She'd ever been in carries cars. She said No. That's the detective explained to her about finding or fingerprint on this min container and carries car. Then he explained to her about cellphone and WIFI records. Yet carries phone was located to have been at Liz's home after she went missing. So the detective told her that they could prove that she'd been impersonating both Kerry and amy. And after being confronted with this mountain of evidence, really Liz stop talking she wanted a lawyer Gruden idea but detectives believe that carry had been attacked in the car the bloodstain was there. But, they had no body no murder weapon Liz had left this. Digital trail though which showed her locations and it even proved premeditation on her part. So an arrest warrant was issued on December twenty, second two, thousand, sixteen and six officers showed up at Liz's and surprised her while she was still in bed. Took her down to the station booked her. She waved her right to a jury trial. So that meant that a judge who's GonNa decide on the verdict. Dave group attorney tablet from storage that contain an S. D. Card with multiple photos deleted. This carded one time been in Liz's phone. And as you scroll through the photos on it, you could see pictures of business children's selfish and when very strange photo disappear to be a close up of a tattoo on foot. So they requested a photo from Kerry's mother. And discovered that carries tattoo match the one in the photograph the. Forensic pathologist. Dr Michelle. Elif studied the photo and determined that the foot was in a state of decomposition. So it seemed that lists had taken this photo as kind of a six souvenir. The. Photo of this lifeless foot though proved that Kerry was no longer alive she had been murdered. Nebraska had reinstated the death penalty in two thousand sixteen. But Liz wasn't a candidate for it. Her trump began on May tenth two, thousand seventeen where she was charged with first degree murder and second degree arson. Her motive was presented as her wanting Dave Kroupa and not letting any other woman get in the way. The state head thirty, two witnesses. The defense called zero. Liz Did have a new twenty, two year old boyfriend. Who for her trial clothing and he was willing to testify for her They didn't have anything to offer I mean at the time when Kerry was killed. This kid was still a teenager. Yes. She was like twice as age. Anthony Cava, a very skilled digital forensics expert. was probably the most important witness for the prosecution. He was very prepared. He prepared a powerpoint presentation illustrated's testimony and he really made it easy for lay people to understand. On the morning that carried disappeared someone had logged onto carries facebook page from Dave's apartment at six, forty two am remember. and carry had been on her computer when Dave left for work at six, twenty, five am. So it's totally reasonable to believe that Kerry had done that log in. But then at nine, fifty, four am. She logged in again and unfriendly Dave? So we know that that was done by Liz probably after she attacked Kerry. and. Kerry's computer has never been found. Cover was able also delay out loses steps. As she created the San Carter Amber Mariano. Fake facebook profiles. Leah. This is what showed premeditation because she's making up fake people to friend her to try and lure her. Yeah Sam Carter was a made up but the photo belonged to a doctor from the east coast. An amber mildew was a character lizard made up years earlier and had used that account many times for online deceptions right so this wasn't her first Rodeo certainly wasn't, and that's why I wanted to go back to dirk a little bit earlier because we just need to know that she has a history of this. This didn't just come out of the blue. No. So the closing arguments in her trial began on May twenty third. And the judge gave his verdict the next day he found Liz, guilty of killing Carey Lee Farber with premeditated malice and she was also found guilty on the arson. She was offered a plea deal if she would reveal the location of carries remains but continued to maintain her innocence. So that wasn't going to happen. She was sentenced to life in prison for the first degree murder and eighteen to twenty years for the are set. And she did appeal in two thousand, eighteen in that appeal was denied. AMAC's followed his mother's footsteps and studied computer programming coding and data science in College. Dave and amy continued to Co Parent. But they don't live together and they have not reunited as a couple. Liz's daughter Trina was put into foster care her son Peter Lives with his father dirk. Liz continues to maintain her innocence. Yeah and Kerry is just remembered by her family and friends is this loyal person who really had a bright future that was taken away by this evil person? In her remains have never been found now no, let's just fascinating. The depths that someone will go to put forth. This line is just amazing well absolutely, and I was just going to go into our sources and the book that I read about this. It's titled Tangled Web which is so appropriate because this is just Such a Web that she created. Eventually just kind of catching herself in it. Yes. It got too heavy too many lies placed on top of lies on top of Lisin. Well Yeah. Things crash down eventually well, and just the mental instability of Liz plus I mean Liz had no empathy. No compassion for people obviously. Know. And I'm just I'm thinking she shot herself then. Yeah. It didn't just grazer she shot herself in the leg she could hit a federal artery. Work done some real damage? She is willing to do anything for. Dave. It just amazing. So you don't understand what a prize Dave early is. Do you know? I guess, I, just don't see it I. Guess if you could see it through Liz's is you'd see a whole different guy probably would but detailed web the book I read was written by Leslie Rule Who. Is actually an rules daughter which I found fascinating. There's a foreword to the book where she talks about how she went into the police station and did some things with her mother I. think she was a photographer in the courtroom. So just fascinating. Some other sources are Omaha World News Online archives the Dateline episode you mentioned, which is titled Scorned and that Season Twenty six episode one and the narrator on it is my favorite Keith Morrison. So you might want to check it out. TACB's music was written and produced by Tristen Capelle. So why don't we do a little feedback and wrap things up we will have a voice mail in two emails and I amended dimmer shorten them a little bit because this episode is lasted for a while. So let's do the voicemail I. This is from Jamie. She has actually to case suggestions, but it's the second case that we're GONNA talk about. Agile Dick. This is Jamie in North Carolina I know you guys generally skip over all the frilly words people say on that I. Just do want to let you know that I appreciate your podcast in the research that goes into each episode and medical aspects and the different perspectives that you guys share. So thank you for that. So I've been rewatching episodes of. Mysteries during this pandemic where there's not a lot else to do that spark media call in with a couple of taste suggestions that I personally haven't heard any podcasts cover and look to hear your guys takes on it. I. There's had binion's death which probably was very well known at one time but I think there's a whole generation that's unaware the story. And Slick to mystery on whether he was murdered or whether he was overdose and there's a lot of intriguing the story including his family casino ownership and management and organized crime connection and buried treasure The second case that I had to suggest is Nancy Segal There's a lot of information on her in the FBI Archives Court records, and there's a book about her she was a gambling. Addict and Con Woman, who's taken advantage many people but she's most well known because she got away with murder and Risley's disposal of World War Two veteran Jack Hawkins for seven years. She financially drained him and she kept collecting social security checks in his name after his death but there's a lot more to it anyways thinks for the consideration and you guys are doing well in staying happy and healthy. Thanks. Thanks Jamie. Yes. Thanks B. We're doing okay we're hanging in here. So the had been in one. We've talked about and I imagined some at some point. We'll do it. How can he was a big poker player larger than Life Guy in Las Vegas I think he started the world series of poker or was involved anyway interesting story and and we'll get around to that the other one this Guy Jack Watkins who was killed by Nancy -Sego. She has his long history of. Attaching herself to people and something happens to them really anyway, this Guy Jack Watkins was killed. And his body got stuffed into a trunk. In nineteen ninety, six. They found the trunk, but he is body was identified for over seven years before they found out who he was and his companion who is Nancy who is also by the way thirty years his junior. was arrested tried and convicted of his murder. so that's a very truncated version of it, but it's a fascinating case and I think we might look into that some more. I always enjoy the story of con- person like that. That's interesting. I was thinking of watching those old unsolved mysteries and I probably will. We just been kind of busy watching while we just watched. I'll begun in the dark which was excellent. I thought. And I know I'm kind of late to the party here but it made me have this interest in the golden state killer case, and then I ended up watching a few different things on that. But yeah I would like to get unsolved mysteries. We will do that and I know as you mentioned the golden state killer. We're going to be doing that when at some point this whole DNA stuff is just fascinating I. Know I know it is. Yeah. It's said fascinating story. So, let's do a couple emails. Okay, we have an email from Laura and it's a case suggestion. Laura says, she loves the PODCAST Laura wondering if you would ever consider doing a podcast on the bike path rapist altea. Mayo. Sanchez from Buffalo New York. Would love to hear your take on it. Thanks and keep up the great work. So I don't know if I pronounced his first name correctly probably not. But. I've never heard of this case of you are never heard of it either and this go was active. Over thirty year period in his wow. He was found guilty of raping and murdering three women and he raped another ten to fifteen more. So. A and this is awful long time. To be active at these crimes before he got. Caught yes. Absolutely. So I thought that'd be an interesting to look into. Yeah, I would like to look into that one. So thanks Laura will do that and then we have a case suggestion from friend of the show Cindy. Cindy is one of our frequent flyers we love hearing from her. Yeah. She always has good cases in good good ideas for us. Yeah. She's great. So this one cindy wants us to look into the Margie Velma Barfield murders these occurred in North Carolina. She was sentenced to death and the death sentence was carried out. Is A book called death sentence by Jerry bledsoe. The tells of the case. Now, she says, I've read this book before I've downloaded it. So. In a nutshell, Margie Velma Barfield was confess murderer of six people. And her. Legacy as I guess, she is the first woman executed in the United States. When capital punishment was reinstituted and she was killed by lethal injection in nineteen eighty seven. So is this a serial killer thing or was this a mass killing? No serial killer? Well, that's rare a woman. Yes. Very rare. So thank you send it. Yeah. Thanks Cindy. We'll definitely read about that. Okay. That's all we have for feedback today. We'll have some more next week. and. We'll be back with another case. Yeah. I'm looking forward to that one too. Oh, this one just flabbergasted me. This one was interesting I hope not too confusing. There's so much to it. Tried to make it rose trying to pay close attention he kind of have to yeah. Then we'll be back next week with that's Sherri. Rasmussen case you're good. Let's a good one that were studying right now. Okay. Why hope everyone is keeping safe and taking care of yourselves and we'll see you next time at the quiet end. We'll be there by by our guys. In Dave's ideal world, he would date a handful of attractive and fund women who wouldn't. Wouldn't make the man. In his ideal world daily De, tractive and fund women. Who would take? You can't do it. We'll get to that I'll have plenty of time wine him.

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