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One step closer to impeachment...


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Watch every weeknight we delve into this consequential moment in American history by bringing you the very latest reporting and analysis this morning the House Judiciary Committee approved two articles of impeachment. Take a listen to house. Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry. Jerry Nadler today is a solemn and said day for the third time in a little over a century and a half the house this year. He Committee has voted articles of impeachment against the president for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The House will act expeditiously. Thank you the question of course is now what. I'm thrilled to have to knowledgeable sociable guests tell me make sense of the days and weeks ahead in a few minutes will be talking with CNN. Crime and justice reporter Caitlyn Poland's she'll have an update on the role of the courts are playing an impeachment. But I I'm joined by my esteemed colleague chief political correspondent Dana Bash. Thank you for being here. Hi David Hi so I'm so bored. There's nothing going I know. It's it really quiet time here. Just like in the holiday lull. Yeah I feel two things simultaneously on a day like today. I get the sense of the big big historic moment and yet because of the way our modern politics are and the way plays out. There's something less than dramatic about it all even though we're talking about the fourth time in history reaching this moment it's anti-climactic and comeback tick at the same time. Yeah does that does that. Does that even make sense But that's I think in keeping with our politics right now and our discourse right now The tribal tribal sense of of where we are You know back in ninety eight. We were just cubs of course but there was more more of a sense of both sides taking it seriously. Now obviously the the allegations what the president were being impeached for were very very very different. And in Clinton's case you had Democrats who are really angry at him For not just the act of having an affair with an intern in the White House but then lying about it under oath oth now. The the actual facts aren't in dispute with the interpretation of the facts could not be more different very well. Said you should do a podcast. Thanks the I don't think I mean. I haven't seen a single crack from a single Republican I do. You anticipate any Republican crossing the aisle and voting for impeachment. I Know A and I have to say it's still even though I should be used to it by now in the trump Republican party. A party that he just for years ago completely disrupted it. Wasn't that long ago that Republicans did poke their head out of the hall and look around and say something saying that made him angry and you know what happened twitter fire and the ones who did it in the Senate for example Jeff Flake Bob Corker. They had to retire and in those districts. They're more afraid of primary. So then they are general precisely so that grip on the base matters totally I mean it is the determinative formative thing data on the democratic side. Do you have any indication from any of your reporting yet that these articles of impeachment are not GonNa Pass in within no credit majority. No as of now no but that said this is a really important weekend coming up because members are going home. They're on planes as we speak you know here on Friday afternoon in. DC to their districts. They're going to be. They're going to hear from their constituents and and the most important ones to look out of course. Are Those thirty one. Democrats in so called trump districts where the president one and They've already been hearing hearing about it. Those members have been saying that their phones in Washington have been ringing off the hook and they're going to have to make a decision whether or not first of all just to go with their with their conscience conscience with their gut about what's right but also just on the raw politics of it do i. If any of the any of the Democrats are even considering voting. No against impeachment. Would that politically even though it would make the Republicans in their district happy. Would it hurt them because you still need your democratic base to win then never mind the whole notion of primary on the left which is very possible just as it is on the right which is why the best politics here. Maybe the vote your conscience more necessarily than gaming it out for exactly that reason. It seems to me if you're in that kind of truly purple district you're going to Piss off off some folks in your district and you don't you know you gotta do that. Calculation of which side you want to piss off more than just one last thing it is possible. I wouldn't say it's probable but but it is possible. We could see different votes on the two articles one on the abuse of power and the other on obstruction of Congress. They do seem to dovetail more than articles of impeachment. The past so maybe not. But it's possible. Yeah I mean remember in one thousand nine hundred. A four articles were voted out of judiciary to the House floor. Two of them failed. Actually I see and on all four different vote totals exactly but Two of them actually failed to pass. The Republican led Congress so it will be interesting to see In your conversations. How many of these moderate Democrats or the trump district Democrats what when we look at the vote vote board? What are the Pelosi operation? Say Right now about how many they think they're really GONNA lose. Oh boy like will be ten or fewer or they think they're gonNA lose fewer than ten Whether or not that's going to play out. Can I mean just in terms of of the numbers they can. They have their their. Yeah I think seven is big enough exactly to to lose a lot but that a certain point also just is is hard to stomach politically although Nancy Pelosi into The need for members to do what they need to do back home in order to come back and keep her speaker or whomever else Wants to be speaker depending in how it goes so quickly before we go to break therefore the let's assume the articles of impeachment pass out of the House and head to the Senate for Trial Mitch. McConnell was just on Fox News last night Talking to Sean Hannity saying he is in complete coordination With the White House Council on this we have a sense of how the Senate is organizing itself for this trial Mitch. McConnell has made it very clear to his conference to his fellow Republicans in the Senate that he doesn't want it to drag out he there. We'll be a trial But he he if he had his druthers and he generally gets to get his brothers because he's a A good ah tactician he. There will be few or no witnesses and at the beginning of the week we had reporting at the White House was the president not just not the White House. The president wanted witnesses and The the leader has tried to explain to him that you know. Be careful what you wish for. Because if you get witnesses that you want we're going to have to give the Democrats witnesses that they want and that might not be so good for you Because that's that's traditionally the way it works and So it seems as though the weeks the week ended with the with the president coming around and the fact that Mitch McConnell went on on Fox News was a way for him to deliver a message through the medium and the channel that the president listened to absorb information. Better here than anywhere else and I thought that was very telling an of the times and of this president. Yeah he went on to say look. We're locked arms and by the way we're going to do it my way back. It's going to help you out Mr President that that was the message. Dan Stay right there. We're GONNA bring in reporter Caitlyn Polenz in just a moment. Please join us right after the break Omaha. steaks is the gift you've been looking for for everyone on your list. 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That's why every single steak we sell is guaranteed to be delicious and why you'll love knowing you sent the perfect holiday gift order the favored gift package plus four Free Omaha steaks Burgers for just sixty nine ninety nine when you go to Omaha steaks dot com and type daily. DC in the search bar. Every gift is one hundred percent money. Back guaranteed remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash. CNN welcome back to the daily DC impeachment. Watch David Chalian. Dana Bash is still with me and we're excited sided to welcome. CNN Crime and justice reporter the always inciteful Caitlyn Poland's Caitlyn. Thanks for being on the PODCAST. Hello Hi tell us before we get into some of the other issues. You're you're are following just where this is the Congressional Action Dannon. I've just been talking about but there has been legal action that has been connected to the impeachment inquiry. Where do new impeachment matters? Stand in the court right now. There's there's a lot of impeachment action in court Even this week I can tell you though. I'm a little less excited this this week that I was in previous weeks in. They're all moving very very slowly and the questions that the courts are looking at are ones that probably ultimately are not going to have much impact. Act on what's going on and impeachment right now but run through these really quickly. The main one is related to an impeachment witness named Charles Kupperman. He's the former national security. The adviser Deputy National Security Adviser so he was the person working under John Bolton. He was called to testify in house. He didn't and he went to the court and said the the house wants me to testify. The the White House doesn't what do I do. That case was in court this week and they were supposed to do the whole Shebang and they didn't The judge said. Let's just look at the first issue you on this and they had arguments and then the judge walked out of the courtroom and said happy holidays. All I'll get through an opinion eventually and so that is clearly trial may be over by. That's right right absolutely And so that's even that's not a question of can that issue still be in court candidate B. before a judge and then there's a whole separate set of questions Austrian about trump's financial records. Now those are things that the house could continue to investigate after this impeachment is over and so those cases have have made their way to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court is looking at least one of them today involving a subpoena in New York From of state grand jury from State Prosecutor and we could have some sort of answer from the Supreme Court by the time This podcast is being listened to by people Separately there's some questions in court about what what the house can access. As far as evidence and witnesses related to the Muller investigation which we thought could become something that becomes part of impeachment. But but it didn't. It wasn't what Moller had found both on obstruction and Russian interference in the in the election did not become part of the articles of impeachment at all. And and so there were questions over did did the President Obstruct Justice That the house was considering that they were going to court and saying judges. Please give us us. Access to Don mcgann the former White House counsel gives us access to the grand jury material Muller collected and courts had said so far yes You should get access to that. Those those things are on appeal. They're going to be heard in court in the in early. January by an appeals court said the mid set before the Supreme Court won't be resolved and so it looks like the house to sort of like set that aside for now and that really isn't playing into impeachment but they all sort of go together and indicate that the house is continuing to look for the courts for help denna before we were recording. Putting you mentioned you ask Jerry Nadler about the so I ask Jerry Nadler question. That Caitlyn actually helped me with Take you behind the scenes over the weekend so I interviewed him last Sunday. We talked on Saturday About the notion of the House Democratic leaders Jerry Nadler. Why didn't he go to the courts when the White House said Nope we're not participating that turned into an article of impeachment of shocked obstruction of Congress? But the question was instead of you know just saying no well. We're going to charge you with an article of impeachment going to the courts seeing if they if they Would decide his answer to me. Which Michael Gerhardt actually said that he agrees with he's a law? Professor who actually testified last week is that the constitution actually on this issue. They don't it didn't mean for this to be one of those checks and balances thing that a court should decide. This is Congress's role. Congress does have the right to get information and so forth from the executive branch. The houses houses actually been very judicious. Excuse whenever they have gone to court in this case they've only gone to court to get the grand jury materials and the mcgann Dan testimony and the trump tax transfer and the IRS. Those really are sitting outside but other people are going to court and asking for for judicial opinions historically every time there has been sort of a fight between the White House and the house over whether a witness must testify whether there are documents that have to be turned over both sides sides. Enter into this game of chicken where neither really wants the judicial branch this third branch of government because careful what you wish for right precedent set president. It said it can't be chained exactly and so they didn't do it In the the Bush years they didn't do it in the Clinton years. It wasn't really something that ever was worked out in court right and right now actually. Yesterday I spent three hours in court in Richmond in in a Just for the record she was in heaven. Forbid Yeah I'M GONNA get there but I just want to button up what you're saying so when you're saying be careful your wish were you're saying the way that the legislative and the executive can maintain power even if it's uncertain power not having the courts way right and right now. The question is being argued. Most right now is. Is there a role for the judges to come in and decide one way or the other and right now in this context for houses saying yes yes in in some places you should. The Justice Department saying saying no judges get out. We've always negotiated for two hundred fifty years until like the nineteen seventies. We always figured out a way to negotiate this politically and and now it's this question of the does the House. Actually one answer on that because some judges like in the coppermine case both the House and the White House are saying. No no dismiss this. We don't have subpoena on on him anymore. We don't we don't need them to testify. Now they don't want to get it out and the judge said in court three times the house doesn't want me to get to the merits or the end of this case. Okay now before we go take us to your fantasy. Land of Richmond Court judges and volume. Okay okay so it is like the worst of the grave really just sets up. Yeah so so fifteen judges on the fourth circuit. The Court of Appeals which is like A. All of the appeals judges in the states. Virginia North Carolina South Carolina West Virginia and Maryland. And they're sitting sitting in court and they're reviewing this question of whether the DC and Maryland US attorneys can get access to financial records from the trump organization. So when the house isn't suing there have been other parties that have stepped up and come into court and said we want to look at whether trump is being constitutional whether he's complying you. You know all kinds of different questions and so in this particular case. This was like a very technical legal question. That's kind of. It's an interesting thing for people who are following the law but what happened bend is they argued the technical part of this and then the judges maybe twenty minutes into the argument it was three argument. Goes Straight to the heart of it and they have an argument between with one another of what do we do. This is the appellate level. So like what they would decide. Either they send them back to court or go to the Supreme Court. That's what's next. And they were arguing with one another over. What do we do with trump? Like one judges saying what is the law is. Is this the law. What do we do with this president who is announcing to have You know conventions that his at the Doral The proposed of the G. Seven is Miami doral resort and they discuss that and there's another judge that saying this is totally off the rails. We judiciary don't need to do anything because has won the Doral Convention when g seven was announced there they worked out politically. This was something that that there was immense publisher on him and they found a conclusion and so they really got to the heart of can you. Can they curtail what the president is doing with his businesses under the constitution. And what kind of constitutional grounds are there Whenever you're facing questions like this the we never really have had answers on? Wow Caitlyn I love how much you love your job. How much you make Zabol to me because I have no knowledge of it whatsoever? I appreciate that. I can't believe you're not gonNA make her sing rent next time. Okay Dina Caitlyn thank you so much for joining me on the daily. DC impeachment. Watch thanks to our listeners. We've got a new episode every weeknight so please make sure to subscribe on Apple. PODCAST stitcher Google podcast spotify. Whatever your favorite podcast APP this while you're there leave us a rating or a comment? It helps people find the show. We'll see you on Monday. Send the gift that shows you care this holiday season Omaha steaks they'll get delicious tender stakes to share remember and love and you'll get the satisfaction of knowing you sent a meaningful holiday gift right now. podcast listeners can get the favored gift package for just sixty nine ninety nine go to Omaha. STEAKS DOT COM type daily. DC in the search bar. You're happy friends and family will open their door to a cooler packed with deliciously tender filet mignon in yon stakes plus premium meats sides in desert. They'll love it when it arrives and think of you. Every time they cook and enjoy their meals Omaha. steaks is a fifth generation. American family owned company. That's been handcrafting. Incredible state gifts for one hundred two years and every gift package is unconditionally. Guaranteed he'd so you can give this gift with complete confidence when you order right now with this exclusive offer you'll get four Omaha. steaks burgers added to your gift for Free Free. That's sixteen main courses plus sides and dessert. Order Your Omaha steaks favored gift package for. Just sixty nine ninety nine by Typing Daily D._C.. In the search bar at Omaha steaks DOT com today.

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