246: A Look Into Our Marriages | Ear Biscuits Ep.246
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Marriage. We'll get into marriage. A Lot. I just want to get into the first one. I mean that's not even just feel so abrupt fee like that. May Me feel anxious and uncomfortable? Oh my goodness, there it. They're answering the question. You gotTA disease in like. How are you how you doing I? Mean like you don't WanNa know how I'm doing. I mean like we're here. Where at the studio you know, it feels good to be able to get out of the house and just come to a place where there's. No one I'm related to directly. You know what I'm saying. You know no one who's in my immediate family. They're all another place there at the house. That I was just at. That I, that I shall return to happily. Listen and I listen I hope to be beat and I'm not I'm not going into negative or complaining mode, but certainly seemed like the world. Less. I don't know what to say. I really don't I mean I can tell. Him Not to say that's why you were like. Literally looked thirty seconds. Let's get to the first question. Because like that's any indication of just how you feel right now. I'm overwhelmed. Man I mean it. Do you WanNa talk about how we feel I. mean the last thing I want is to start complaining about something associated with my life at this point. I'm not going to do that. I'm not asking for longer than a few seconds. I'm just you know everything that's happening in the world and everything between what my personal life and what's happening publicly I mean there's just a lot going on all you have to do. Here's all you have to overwhelming. All you have to do, and somebody looks at you and says what's wrong you to say twenty twenty. That's it. Everybody gets it. Man. Just say twenty twenty, but I don't even WANNA say. It's not that everything's wrong. There's a lot this right this happening. It's Jessica. It's positive overwhelming. And it's constant and it should be you know I'm again I'm not complaining that. That, every morning, there's something there's a new detailed to grapple with in the news and figure out how? I personally am going to respond to that. And then if we started talking about how we. HOW WE AS A. As companies or as leaders of a company are GONNA respond. Again. I am not complaining I am just acknowledging the fact that it is a it is so complicated and overwhelming and necessary and. It. I'm not I'm not wishing for these issues to go away. I'm wishing for coronavirus to go away well. Yeah, you know that's kind of what I was getting at. I was talking about getting out of the House I was like. I think that there's this thing that we've been talking about is. Boy It, you know it would be one thing. For humanity to be a to like humanity, addressing one major issue is difficult enough for humanity to do that where when you throw multiple issues that humanity which is what twenty twenty has decided to do. Less really dig on systemic racism in America and you know. Yes, that's the right thing to do and it's. And I'm not trying. I'm not trying to escape from that. Constantly I you know I'm trying to find ways, and we are constantly talking about ways that we can. That we can properly. BE, engaged. You just made it sound like that's what we're about to dig into just to clarify word. That's not what we're going to. We're now. It wasn't going to be answering your questions, but it's. But no matter what you put out. There's an elephant in the room that is. That matters more than other things that matters the most right now. Black lives matter more than what we're going to talk about on the show today, right? Even even to the point where making a decision. To talk about anything. That's light, light, harder funny. If feels weird, you just feels weird weird. I mean it's like everybody's got stuff. They're going through personally to and everybody's got their. You know their own shifted dealing with and then. Yeah. You're right. Twenty twenty is is is a doozy. But. I just don't I don't? WanNa, I don't want to come across his complaining about it because it's. It's such an important movement and now is the time. And we we all needed to make sure we're taking care of ourselves and we're having. We're having space well. I think there's no when we come to these microphones, and then it's just like. It's tough to know especially when it's like. Do you feel like everything can be scrutinized or criticized? Microphone. Yeah Well I. think that's that's the temptation. The temptation especially for for white people who have the privilege to just check out of the conversation if they want to. If they conclude they don't have, there's nothing personal at stake. They can be like I'm just. Can we just move on? We just talk about something else and I. Think your point is is like no, we're not moving on. And we're. Not We're not moving on until real changes has has taken place. you know that's why my my wreck again today. When which when we get to, it will be directly related to this stuff, and you feel that as a white person. You feel that fatigue setting in that like do I. Got To think about this and. I, was just trying to figure out how to argue with my uncle about corona virus now. I got to argue with them about the you know, it's like yeah, unfortunately. Unfortunately or fortunately for better for worse Yeah I do think for better as what you're getting at is like you got. We gotTA keep talking about it because it's just not something where there was this movement and everybody got. Put stuff on. Instagram and then all of a sudden. It's like okay, we. Know. We're not good. That's the point. Yeah, we're not good. It isn't good. but how do we transition to? Having this ear biscuit be about something else for a second, and I don't you know? I say I don't want to defend that decision I. Just want to have a conversation. Have you, know well. I think the question itself will demonstrate the awkwardness of the transition. So without further ado, why don't you just ask the first question? See we could. We could already been halfway through this but I. I'm glad. I'm glad that we didn't know this question. Praise. Sharp By the way shout out to pray sharp. She was the solver of the of the riddles that in the mythical society that led to. Uncovering the fact that we were doing a live broadcast of screen of me watching Ferris Buehler's Day off for the first time ever. And all the clues were wrapped up in that stereoscopic viewer which featured movies from the eighties. I'd never seen, but wasn't there. A like a a there were a number of steps and she in there was one to work on GM right? Yeah, there there was a there was a clue on GM that tied back to the stereoscopic viewer, and there were a number of layers, and we watch it happen in the discord when it was being solved. That's kind of stuff happening in the medical society. A. Raise you figured it out solving mysteries your question. How old were you when you had your first celebrity crush? WHO WAS HASHTAG ear biscuits? I didn't have. An immediate answer this a really had to think about it. The first person I thought about was was daisy duke. From the Dukes of Hazzard OCCA- well. But I mean he's a controversial choice. Yeah, well, I'm just as a kid I watched that show, and she wore what became to be known as Daisy Dukes. But all I remember feeling was just weird and tinguely and I didn't really understand or WANNA. Come to grips with anything that was happening. Grip? What was that? How old are you talking about? I mean that's pretty young, right? I don't know what years but. I think my first. Real crush that I. Remember is Viki? The robot featured in the television show small wonder. The girl who played the lead yet, the robot the robot. Did you watch the show right I? Mean it started in one, thousand, nine, hundred five. Thousand Nine hundred and watch it religiously. Oh I watched it as a religion. I worshipped her as a celebrity crush because she was robot now I. I don't know I. Just I was like. Oh, she? She's cute and she's. She's kind of robotic. It's kind of. It's kind of cool. I remember being embarrassed that someone would find out that I that I had a crush on a robot girl. And it was. Trying to, but I read a little bit about destroyed that she was an actor. Well Yeah I knew it was an actress, so it wouldn't have been weird to have on the actor who was playing I had a crush on the robot I had a crush on the character. I liked how she acted like you wanted to robot girlfriend. which that is not a good thing, no. No if you have if you are the if you have a robot girlfriend, or if you've got one of those real dolls I'm not saying that's wrong. But I'm what I'm getting at is if you wanted? A woman that you could program and control then that that's that that's A. Birth Place of a of an actual woman. That could get problematic. That could that could reveal some. Bad tendencies about yourself, which was the point of that robot girlfriend Song Yeah. It was a guy who wanted to turn on her off when he wanted to write. I just thought she was cute man. I thought it was cute how there's definitely more going on than that, though now that you've talked about it, okay does something in there her, so her dad was like a a technological advanced. Electronics guy like He. He made her and then he made her as a robot and then didn't tell anybody so as a family. You know they had they had a flesh and blood son. They, had Vicki the robotic daughter. Her name is Vicky I couldn't have told you for something VR. Virtual. Very negative. Ventriloquist. But they kept it a secret that she wasn't that. She wasn't. Hume hints the whole point of the show right? Yeah, there's a lot of tension there. I don't remember. The first crushes that I remember just girls that I went to school with. Like you know and I I remember. I remember like being in first grade and having crushes on girls. You, you pick tall girls, which makes sense and. Then used when you started dating. You started dating short. Girls Right? Yeah, you never dated a tall girl. Well you there was that one girl in college. That was kind of tall. That you wanted to date. Yeah, she didn't they me. No, she didn't want to date you. I didn't mean to bring it up. Did she tell you? I don't know I. Never told her that I wanted today. I thought you wrote her a letter or something I thought. You I thought you made a play. I. Like you check Yes or no? Definitely would not have done that and specifically. no, I never became a thing. It never became a thing well, she was she was as close as you got to dating a girl right, but I mean I mean first grade having a crush on Lisa who is in second grade who was? Boy, well, she she was so tall. And I just think that was. Really she was she was. The only tall girl had a crush on growing up. We name another well. I mean. I'm trying not to name names anymore. Because well, you have a tendency to tame first and last names. You don't have to the girl who you would always have dreams about flying to her house and she wasn't tall. She was tall. No, she wasn't taller. She wasn't short five four maybe. As an adult? She's taller than five Max hundred percent. By four maybe I just watched her in your dreams. Your memory is flawed. But what I'm saying, elaborate cross celebrity crushes. I remember, and I had to look her name up. Because as soon as I, read this question celebrity crush. There was A model. That I remember really really liking in the eighties, as I was sort of becoming, you know. Myself. 'cause I guess in Nineteen Eighty, seven, I'm ten years old, and like I said I was already liking girls before that. But the closer and closer I got to like twelve. Stronger and stronger, these urges got. Christy TURLINGTON. She's still around. She's not dead. Yeah, so what you mean I think she might still model. Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm sure she does in some capacity I I remember Christy Turlington, but she's like one of those classic supermodels of the eighties that like alongside Cindy Crawford. Etc. Yeah, you know. but I just remember seeing her as A. As a as a boy and just thinking. Well. She's very pretty. I mean I thought those things too, but I didn't transfer into a crush because I would. Never, I could never date. A supermodel well I would go line would. Connect I would stop at the magazine. Section at the grocery store. And because she was on a bunch of covers, right? I would go to that section where there was beautiful women on the covers of magazines and we're not talking about the porn section. because. That's not in the grocery store. And I'm not talking about like jugs and. I'm talking about like Vogue Yeah. We already knew that beautiful. The cover and I would just. Would just stare. You wouldn't pull the magazine down and thumb through it. Well 'cause I think it's important to understand that you know, and this is the case in most places but like. You! You didn't walk around Booze Creek and find a woman that looked like that like that does what we didn't. We weren't in Los Angeles or whatever you know, it's like this was like it. Was this something that you're like? Is this really exist? In of course now we know technically no doesn't exist because it's been manipulated. This lighting is perfect, got on his makeup and exactly the right way. I'm trying to figure out I think. I know the answer was more problematic. You being enamored by this this airbrushed woman or me, being enamored by a robotic got well I think what I well. I think what I'm discovering right now is that. I think it's one of the reasons that and I wasn't. This is not the point that I was trying to make and I'm not trying to make a woke. Point this. Not My intention but I do think it's interesting that just as young boy walking through the grocery store while your mom's picking picking out Viviana sausages. You're sitting there with your little sausage in. In the. In the in the magazine section. Staring at these manufactured beautiful women like Christy Turlington and just thinking that this is i remember thinking things like this is why I exist. Like I, I remember thinking that like. This is what I'm here for to find that. And it's a that is not a good. That is just not a good thing to be thinking right to think this some. Manipulated Why are you watch? Talking? Watch is trying to give you some advice. Wow, why would series we asking me? If I was asking her, said something that sounds like series, but now I'm going to put her to sleep. Sorry, this is putting Vicki to sleep. They did that. I, just said Vicky do not disturb me, and so she will never interrupts again until I turn it back on. I don't know what my point was. My point was is that it probably wasn't a healthy thing, but I specifically remember when I saw her on TV because using a bunch of commercials using a bunch of ads. And I didn't know her name I look her name up that I didn't name the time. That that girl! Yeah. That's what I'm about. Yeah you, you are I wouldn't call it an obsession. But I mean we interacted with the female. Form different differently. Expand, please. I'm just saying I didn't I didn't? I didn't I didn't Gawk at the at the magazines I would? I was too embarrassed to do that I was embarrassed that I that I liked Vicky. You or no one in other words, anyone no, not to get graphic I'm just being honest here other words when you as a young boy. Looked at Vicki. You didn't think boy I wonder what that robot looks like under her clothes right and I'm being honest with you. Yeah, that's the kind of thing. That I was thinking when I saw the ad I was like okay What else is there? That's just that's. That's how wired. Yeah. It's interesting that I had shame in just having a crush on Vicki. I wouldn't have wanted anyone to know I would have denied it i. don't think I mean. I didn't talk. I didn't tell you. The girls that I had a crush on not until like probably middle school. At that point I was. Pretty Open about it the girls. Like in school that I had a crush on. I didn't want anyone to know that and when including them. Yeah, and even in Like middle school when people started pairing up and like Oh, she's my girlfriend. We're going together. Like I was really nervous. That, if a when I got a girlfriend like my family was gonNA find out. It's such a weird thing I remember. Just being so nervous that they would be od. You've got a girlfriend Western you. You are scared of them finding out. You were scared of having to talk about it. It was like revealing a part of myself in they. Felt like they would know something about me that I didn't want them to know. that. I had a girlfriend that liked girl. That I. Wanted to hold a girl's hand. I didn't want to talk to my parents. A you know but I was embarrassed that they would know. Your girlfriend I I think that that is normal. I. Think that idea so every every time I wanNA. Talk to either one of my boys about girls immediate embarrassment right? Yeah, so I think that that's yeah. Totally normal a I don it would be. I think it would be a little bit odd. If! They weren't somewhat embarrassed about it right I remember. I remember being at a baseball game and it was when I was dating amber. And we're watching the baseball game. You one of the players. In your mom was there and I remember. What is the remember you say that like? It's macabre holding a cut no-one from the team, yeah? I didn't apply for the day I didn't care for it. Because you misunderstood. It wasn't an application was just showing your. Where's the application? I can't be on this learned enough about baseball to know that I needed to be in the stands holding his girlfriend I I'm sure amber held my hand. I didn't hold her hand. You talking about Middle School Baseball Yeah. When I dated amber. Okay and your mom. Your mom was sitting there in the bleachers, and I'm sitting there and amherst holding my hand and just felt so embarrassed. The your mom's GonNa. See me holding hands. With my girlfriend I get that yet. ISS normal I I think that and I know that sometimes you feel like you. You need to check how. How weird weird you are, because you have, said some things that are okay. Yeah, that's different, but I never unusual never lived the that's not I never looked at girls on a magazine cover and thought man. I JUST WANNA. Keep thinking about her. I just felt like that's a woman. I'M A boy. That's a woman. That's right. That's what I was thinking that that is a woman. That's that's what I was thinking. I was like why doesn't She Sheila? I'm just I'm just going to stay away from the whole that you're digging for yourself I! Know I mean. I've been I've been honest about side as far back as I can remember when I saw beautiful woman I was very attracted to them might make this better. Asking another question, which will answer after the break? Beep Boop, twenty, four, Eighty, eight, says let's talk marriage okay. Well, this will this smooth things over if we talk about. Our our longstanding love affair with our wives. My wife would is not threatened by the things that I as eight year old in the grocery store. I didn't know her at the time I'm not talking about wives. Listening I'm talking about everyone else. Listening like our interactions with females can be appropriate. and. Mutually Edifying! Yeah, and it not be based on. Some farce or your own needs. Or Mine of a robot digestive. Clarify though we've talked about. Who a woman on a television show in a woman in a magazine I'm very associated. Shows are not questions I know right when you talk about women in a magazine now you know in like. Self image in the female form and stuff like that you know. I'm starting to get nervous. Understand let's talk marriage a bill. My husband since I was nineteen. Now, she doesn't say how old she is. She could be twenty. But. Let's assume it's longer. Let's talk about how crazy it is to grow up together. Become adults together become parents together. Keep the spark alive and not kill each other in the process. Yes, that is the goal. Ear Biscuits is supported by me undies. Remember this pride month. 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UNDIES, DOT com slash ear. Okay again! The question is talking about growing up together. When you got married. Young I mean nineteen right. Yeah, so my wife had just turned. I don't WanNa get this wrong. I think he just turned twenty. She she she had turned Tony Give me. She had turned twenty in December. Nineteen ninety nine. and. Then we got married in June two thousand one. I was like twenty. Twenty three. And the time. I was twenty one. I turned twenty two on our on our honeymoon year. Because I'm. A year older than you and got married a year after you so. Like A A. The. You know we just. We and we've been Chris Been Married. Twenty Years Right and you've been married one thousand nine hundred nine years of married as long as this woman lived before she got married and I think maybe she has to. because. That's kind of wrapped up in a question. You've been through a lot. Well. This made me think about we did talk about this. A little bit in the in the lost years podcast just the idea of. Growing up together and. You know the thing about getting married young. Is. You haven't. You. You haven't become the adult that you're going to be right and they're still and nineteen at twenty early twenties. There's still a lot of change I. mean there's going to a lot of change at any point your life, but especially at that time like you haven't lived alone like you haven't. You haven't been an adult responsibilities and all of a sudden. You're to adults. The responsibilities figuring life out together. A lot of people get married at the age. Get divorced because once. They kind of figure out who they are they are. They're like Oh. This is not going to work. But a lot of people if you're you know if you're blessed. As as we have been to kind of be able to grow up together. And as you learn as you grow, it enhances the connection. That which is I think what has happen, but The thing that this made me think of. Is something that Jesse and have started doing. which is. I don't remember why we started I know that she had been watching the first season the last season seasons there have been of this married at first sight. This have not heard of this. Competition show, it's not a competition I. Don't know if there's a netflix original just on Netflix now, we. We watched it on Netflix. And we just started whatever the latest season season two I don't know so. If I. I was like me and her late to watch trash. We'd like to watch trashy reality TV together and laugh at it like we watch the bachelor together we've we've watched that bachelor. The one where they did was basically music was American Idol Makes Mitch Bat Bachelor and they put couples together, and they had to sing together Oh God and then people come in judge it, and this is like horrible. It was cringe vest, but we. We liked to watch things that are bad because it entertainers makes you feel better about not being that cringe. Show. But this show which I just assumed was going to be another one of these shows the premise of the show. Is. They go to a city so this season. They're in Charlotte North Carolina. And all these single people apply in all. These single people are like. I WANNA get married I'm ready to get married. And there's a team of experts who are the host of the show. Oh! and. They go through all these people interview them all the process. They narrow it down to. These. Four couples did they have out of the pair people together, and is this over the course of the season or is this episode? One is the selection of the four couples. Okay now, let me explain to you. This is how it works. This episode to episode is called naked and afraid, because that's how I would describe my honey, but just. You can watch that after. Episode Two is the wedding. Of the four couples, and this is on their wedding. Day is the first time they've ever seen each other. Oh, my Gosh, never win! The bride walks down the aisle. That is the first time that the the groom is seeing her. Just doesn't I mean my knee-jerk Rashes. That doesn't sound like they have. A very high opinion of marriage. Just like yeah, let's let's give this a shot. That is what I thought going in, and that may still be true, but let me it's. It's like Oh. This'll be fun. We can always just get divorced now a great way to start a married now hold on now before you judge it. You're judging it hard right now. I'm judging. I'm saying this is the assumption. Is that I'm bringing a and that's what makes it so entertaining. Now, The way that the show works is and this is if you have a certain view of marriage. You would think that this is wrong. And maybe you fall into this category and I would probably have fallen into this category before I started watching it. I think differently about it now. This show has changed what you think about. Marriage. I I'm GONNA explain so the way that it works is. They're married for eight weeks. In at the end of eight weeks. You decide if you're going to stay married or get divorced. That's the season of television. Right and so I. Don't know what episode we're on right now, but like the second episode. Cameras following him. Honeymoon like we just last night we watch the beginning of the honeymoon like and so there's these questions like. Are we going to have sex on the first night? We literally met this afternoon at our wedding. Are we going to have sex and then? I don't want. I'm not going to spoil anything, but there's like who's going to have sex. WHO's not going to have sex in? It sounds like I'm talking about a trashy show, right? I would be so afraid to forget my wife's name. Oh, that's that's one of the that's what happens when they walked down the aisle. The introduce themselves like I'm Natalie. It's like it's like oh still. You know when they find out their last name. Again, there's some it's at least this this season. Whether in Charlotte. It's very traditional. It's like four couples, heterosexual couples, men and women, and then all the women are taking the husband's last name so the way they're like. We now introduced you. Mr and Mrs Johnson and the woman's like Johnson legs. She's like responding is great television. Let me just say it's great television because of that because you put yourself in this and you're like. What would it be like? Okay? Now I just thought this is going to be trashy reality TV that I was just going to be laughing at the whole time. The reason my Li-, my wife likes to watch it with me is. I weep. When I was. Talking about and I don't mean you we don't mean like. She'll look over at me and like I've I've got like tears. Okay Multiple Times while watching the ship it you got. You Got Tears because I'm laughing right now, but I got tears in mind, yeah! So I don't know, but I've been trying to figure out what's going on and Jesse. We've been talking about this and and there's I think there's a number of things. First thing is what's going on in your heart. Like. Why am I responding to the show in this way and so one one thing is? That hit me. That these marriages. which are arranged by someone else? Yeah? are very similar to my marriage. And let me explain what I mean by that. Here, biscuits is supported by sleepnumber. Leading a healthy lifestyle is easy. Right, get you veggies. Get you smoothies. Get you exercise. Do Some Yoga do some meditation? Okay? Maybe it's not that easy, but there is something that helps improve everything, and you can do it with your eyes closed Rhett are you talking about slave? Labor? sleepnumber knows what it takes to sleep your best asleep number. Three sixty smart bed lets you choose your ideal firmness, comfort and support on each side each side of your body each side of the bed. Your sleep number setting is what it's called. 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I mean you don't know what the Hell you want when you're old either but especially when you're young, and you're figuring out who you are thing how differently I think about literally everything than I did when I was twenty three twenty years have gone by a change in many different ways ways that we've talked about on the show still married to the same woman who has also changed in similar and different ways. Yeah, and there's this idea that. Oh well, you got to be exactly sure about this person. You gotTA. Know everything. There is a know about them you. You probably live with them before you get married because you need to know what kind of habits they have. This show calls that into question. Right in in calls into question that. Is really about someone who is. The individuals that make up the marriage are ready for the commitment that marriages right they are, they are. They are prepared to be like. I know you're not perfect I. mean first of all a lot of one of the things we've been talking about is. The process of having experts select your spouse for you is probably at least as reliable as the process of selecting your spouse for yourself. Let me just say that that's a that's a premise. That's a working theory that I have yeah, and I'm not talking about. We should go back to arrange marriages. I'm just saying that. If you wanted to submit yourself to this process, you like to think that. No, no, no, no I would be better at making this decision because I'm rational. I WANNA make sure I'm in love with somebody whatever your reasons would be. I submit that. That initial spark that makes you fall in love with with somebody while it is important. It isn't the thing that we talked about this before, but the isn't the thing that maintains a twenty year marriage. So yeah, let's talk more about the commitment component, but I. do think that when I was. You know trying to figure out if I was going to propose to Christine if we were meant to be together. I was doing lots of math. I was doing lots of analysis right, and even if we got engaged, we went, we went through. Premarital counseling which I highly recommend because it can raise flags that could lead to you. Know what let's turn back now. You know let let's make an informed decision as we can. About the commitment, we WANNA make I feel like some of these experts that you're describing. Did we traded Christine? I tried to do in our premarital counselling. We went through this book and it was like it was a workbook. Maybe you went through the same workbook. Remember what it was called Tom Nelson it. No, but it was in an Oh, you mean like a Putt Tom Nelson Evangelical publish earlier. It was like. Preparing for marriage or some billions? Yeah, I think it was it was. From a Christian worldview. Yeah, but it was very practical like it. It it guided us to talk about things like. Yeah like our expectations for sex but then smaller things like Habits like things that matter to you small things that are big deal to you things that you know that. Can Be annoyances like how you deal with money. Yeah, all and then putting a plan in place that could be points of conflict. You put a plan in place. It's like okay, we can. We hear each other and we agree and we're we're. We're planning our future, but we're also analyzing like there is a chance and it felt very slim. That are counselor. Who is walking US through? This would be like. You know what you're not right full. pull the plug not right for each other. I'm sure some counselors do that once we were really bold. It's I. still think seems like a really great idea like. This television show not the television because it is a great idea of. Premarital certification I won't even say council like some sort of sort of third-party certification. I I mean as my kids get older and they're like. As they start finding partners I'll be like. Can you agree to a third party certification? I'm making this up right now because I don't live. Television show. Okay Yeah, they just go on there. Well, okay I. I agree I. Get what you're saying I agree with all of it I'm interested in the commitment component, but like tell me what you're learning. Well district, Finish your. To add to your thought. Finisher. Finish my thoughts to add to your thought. I think that again I don't. These experts. How qualified are they I don't know as got PhD's and Shit but how? Does that certification process that they are putting these people through compare to this sort of the very small focus group of the two of you Anna Counselor. How does it compare I'm saying that? My suspicion early on now first of all one of the things is like who's to say together like right. That's one of the fun things about watching. Ingesting are like Oh this couple I think they're going to be okay like we say things. I think they're going to be okay then this couple it's like. ooh Like he's. He's really organized and she's not right, and so you'll be like well. Why did they put them together? And you know sometimes it is a huge problem. Sometimes, it's not it. It really depends and maybe a reason why they put. It is because the producers over road in expert. That's the thing that I talked to Jesse. About I was like I disc. What you think, don't you agree that because I get into the production side of. Don't you think that they made the people on this television? Show signed something that said that they understood that one of the criteria for them Casting CA. Them coming together companies. People together is. An, entertainment quality right to sure it's in the fine print somewhere. Yes, you will be matched according to your compatibility, but you will also be matched according to entertainment value. So they probably didn't say they. They probably said with the perogatives of the. So, it's probably covered, I'm sure they've got that covered. Netflix's whoever makes show. Now all that being said I think the reason that I get teary, eyed and first of all. There's like one couple that I don't. There's N-, illicit nothing. I have no sympathy for them. I don't really like either of them. That's what they sound like for each other and I think the also I think they have the smallest chance of staying together, but these other three couples. It's like when like the bride walk down the aisle, and like the husband saw her. It was like I found myself in this. I do this weddings in general, I get kind of teary-eyed at weddings. but I found myself. I had I was like what the hell is happening to me right now. Why am I responding in this way? And I think that it has a lot to do with thinking about. Those moments in my marriage in the way that like Jesse and I did not know what we were doing. This same sort of like deer in headlights. What have I gotten myself into 'em I ready for this? That is so. Sensationalizing exaggerated. In this show is something that I felt about that whole period of my life of you know. We got we got married. Women got married because of the culture that we were in. We got you know one of the reasons. We got married when we got married because. At the time we were abiding by. A worldview that said that premarital sex wasn't part of God's plan right? It's like you WANNA have sex. You got to be in a committed marriage specifically, not just a relationship, but marriage, and that had that had a deep impact on our decision making. Abilities exact again I'm saying all this because you may look at this show like you did. And like I did before I watched it and said this is ridiculous. Why would anybody make a decision to get married based on some experts on a television show? And then you start thinking about the reasons that you get married and I say none of this to say that I was madly in love with my wife still am. was drawn to her. We were compatible. We you. We couldn't stay away from each other. We couldn't imagine not having a life together. All those things were in place. But so much of that was just influenced by the nature of who we were at the time in these these cultural pressures and expectations in our worldview, right? But that got into right, but none of that stuff. None of stuff keeps you in it. That stuff can that that kind of throws you over the threshold, but it doesn't keep you in the room, but yeah but. There mayor they got married it in episode one and by episode eight. They're deciding if they're gonNA stay together. Really that means is like we're GONNA to be married for eight weeks. No legally binding who I know, but but they've kind of. Thrown out the window there like were less. Let's play marriage. Let's be married. In an experiment for television for eight weeks, and then we'll decide if we really want to be married, but to tie it in with our story. One of the girls on the show one of the women. She's twenty seven years old. His a virgin who has saved herself for marriage. Okay so that feels like there's more at stake. Because she's GonNa. She's GonNa give up her virginity, which is very important to her according to her worldview. And then not stay with this guy because it after eight weeks. It seems like maybe it's not. It's GonNa be a little bit difficult. Well I think that is the question if she a fact that she's again, I'm not making a statement I'm not promoting. A. Culture thing I'm just saying that the fact that she is saved herself for marriage. Increases the chances that their marriage will go beyond the eight weeks because. She continued to, did she? Did she wait to have sex until? has she waited so far. They have not consummated yet. Yeah, okay, that makes sense and that's. The point that I'm in that supports my my assertion. They will, though you think they're going to hold out. She's going to hold off for eight weeks. I guarantee you. She's going to do it. She's already basically said that she's going to do it. Oh, yeah, yeah, because they are because once she once. She realized that she wants to have sex with him. She's already married to him. In a according to her worldview typically how it happened, she is she she's. She got the okay as soon as she got married to him. Yeah But she's probably if she subscribes to. That worldview, I think she's probably also subscribes to the view that she can't get divorced unless there's infidelity so unless he cheats on her and the next day weeks on this television show, which is probably not gonNA. Have because there's cameras on the whole time. She's going to be married this guy for a long time. And I'm not in a lot of times that that doesn't work out well. I'm just saying I I'm not judging it good or bad I'm just saying that that decision makes it more likely for her to stick around in the marriage room for longer. But how many? How many of these contestants? You say contestants, man, acting couples married couples. What what are they saying about? Commitment things that make me cry. So. So, they're like we're. They're sincere. They're not like. Just tiptoeing around like this is an experiment. They're not out of the way that I'm saying. Not acting like our lives depend on this relationship, the reason that I like it. He's because the people on the show the reason I feel about it differently like when I watched the bachelor or the Bachelorette or the Bachelor in paradise, which is the trash is trash. I've never used any me and Jessie even watch that. I'm watching small wonder reruns. We watched that too hot to handle that I tweeted about which was i. mean the whole point of the show was to be trash. When we watch those shows we just. I just judge the can the people. The contestants constantly and I'm just like how stupid you have to be to go on this show, and like these people don't understand anything about life. These people on Meredith first sight like it's a different. It's a different kind of person like they are taking it very seriously. The it isn't like out in other words when you watch the bachelor. How many of these women what Bachelorette? How many of these men are on the show for cloud so they can be? Become reality, TV stars. That you don't get that vibe at all from these is like. I did this because I want to be married because I see myself as a married person and I haven't had any luck in that. In my own life trying it my way so now. Why don't let these experts do a for me and it's not that I don't believe in. I mean I. Don't know what I think about arranged marriages, but I think that. I, do think I have this belief which I haven't thought about or like. Asserted I'm just GONNA vomit this out and see can make sense of it like everything else I'd say. I've I've been like you know what I i. I believe that arranged marriages could work just as well as marriage is now I'm not I. Don't want to get into like who's arranging it. Like I'm not I'm not weighing in on that, but like if you put two people to. If you submit to a process and you're, you're on board for that and it's. In its It's by your volition. People equally committed because a lot of times both people eat arranged. Marriage marriage in general can be kind of tied into this patriarchal thinking, but so we're talking about in the Buffy, yes. We want to be. Married. I mean just like in that show. I have thought in general. It could probably work. I think it's. Part of my I, guess my experience kind of impacts. My opinion that. Lie Christy now we're talking the other day about this. This. A couple in I. Know I know nothing about her. She was like so and so is has announced. They're getting a divorce like very. It's like. The their motivational speaking couple that they talk about. Relational Dynamics, and after like almost twenty years of marriage, they've decided to just be friends and I'm like listen. I don't know anything about this, but if you break up if you divorce after that long, you just want to be friends. It's like. When you add the detail that they have a public persona of giving marriage advice, and then that makes sense that. I'm just saying there's alterior motive to. To maintain a friendship to prove that like my voice is still valid when it comes to relationships. But that's a hard thing to believe that like you've been married twenty years and you get you get divorced in your. We're still best friends and. Raising kids together. It's like that's fricking complicated I'm just suspicious, but I know nothing decides what I just said. I know nothing except the thing. My Wife said to me offhand affirmed inclusion. But I told Christie. Tacked onto that conversation I was like we've been through so much together and I can understand being married for twenty years, and I mean we've changed so much that we could have changed in ways that were so different and divergent that. We would get a divorce. But I'm so grateful that we haven't changed in exactly same ways, and we haven't changed at exactly the same times, but we've gone through so much of a together that we're still very much in it together, and we're we're. Like the same page the book is a big book I mean you don't the pages. It's not like teetering on A. On a On. A PIN head. That you're trying to like. To stay on the same page you don't have to be in. You don't have to believe the same thing about everything. You don't have to have the same instincts you. You don't have to be the same person to to make it last because crews are not the same person. But we've changed in. This. It's an and like a dance. There's a give and take, and there's a there's a listening and there's A. Sharing and there's A. It's under girded by this commitment. I guess that. We are in this together. We are together. We are going to go through this together and it's going to when it's really hard. It's really yeah. At times. It's really hard. When if you come through it? If you'd come three to those things, it makes it. You can go into the next one with that much more confidence the next marriage. The next trial. If, you can figure out I married what you did wrong. Go to the second one. A lot of people do say that. I'll do that. My second marriage I want I want to stay here. I know we're staying with this question, but I I WANNA stay because. One of the things I I don't remember the name of the study I. Don't know where this was Jesse, told me about it. but there was some relationship expert. Slash psychologists. Who said that they could? Look at. The basically set couples down had them communicate with each other on video. And this person could watch like twenty seconds of the video I feel like I could do that, too, and decide if they're gonNA. Stay together and make a very accurate prediction as to whether or not, they would be together five years from now. And I don't I'm not getting the numbers exactly right, but it was an unbelievably short amount of time of seeing them together could make a very predictable. Very reliable prediction. About how long are we going to get? What would you look for because I? Feel like I could do that well. The here's the thing I know what I love. That's what this show. That's one of the things you're doing as you watch the show. And here's Lucy I firmly believe that while you could get into some really like analytical. It's not. It's a vibe. And now it is based because this is important because there are things like. Mijas you've talked about lately. We've been like you know. How sometimes like you know someone and you get this. You, get a vibe from them. And you and you can be I'd just I don't I think this person is duplicitous or I think that this person. There's something off about this person. In their character. and. You can kind of sense it, but then you're like that feels. That feels judgmental. Not Basing that on anything other than just a confrontation I had with them immune you. Have have noticed this. There's been a couple of times when like. We've met with someone in a business capacity. And then we'll come out of a meeting and we'll be like. I, don't I don't get a good vibe from that guy? And it might be that. But what I have learned is that whatever is happening when I say that to myself is more reliable than the to our conversation than you that me and you might have afterwards trying to rationalize our way into thinking whether or not somebody is worth working with. And that's what I think. This ecologist picking up on is that. The human capacity for processing things in a way that you cannot even articulate. Is. Way under appreciated by most people in other words you divide that you get from. Someone is very often reliable. That doesn't mean you're going to be wrong sometimes, but I'm just saying that I think that we try to. We talked about this because there's this one the one couple that we don't think I just the look on his face when she says something to look on her face, the physical just the way that they seem to be connecting, and then there's another couple that is immediately. You're like they. They got it. They're going to be together a long time. I can see the way they interact me. It comes down to. I mean you can and I don't know how long it takes. It varies from person to person, but if you can tell. Somebody's like a genuine good person. You know. If I was trying to be specific about my analysis to me. Something that would be a telltale sign was like. Being able to quantify humility, I if if I, could you know if if? If I'm listening on the conversation and it's. You could tell that. They don't seem like. They're. They're asserting that they've got it all figured out or that. Type of person that can say they're sorry. You know you gotTA. You gotta be willing to. Be Humble and. Admit your mistakes to stay in in an. In a vibrant relationship and I think we when you've been married when we as long as we have. We, know! We. We really know our partners right like I know Kristie. I was GONNA say inside and out, but then that would have been weird right well, but sort of true. It's totally true, but I didn't mean it in that way to. Get your mind off the magazines. Dirty minded little boy. I just. Like I mean we, we know each other. We know everything we feel like we can predict what the other person would say or think or interact and what? We know what the other person is capable of as friends like people think our friendship is so extraordinary for that reason, but it's like I feel like that's really a requirement for marriage for long lasting marriages like. People like and I. Guess That's people say that about our friendship is like because it's not a marriage and people don't invest that much in friendship, but I think you have to have that in a marriage, and it was such a high standard. I know, but what what what I'm seeing in these couples is literally okay. They just got married. But they're not I mean. They get. They just got married and then. They, after they get married. The camera follows them as they walked back through everybody we present to you. Mr Mrs Johnson. They walked through everybody, and then they go to this little. They all get married at the same place someplace in Charlotte and then they have their first date, and then they know they're just sitting there, talking to each other and there's like a bottle of champagne like they do it. All the couples have to do it and it's dislike. I looked at the way that these two people interacted with each other. In the first moments of ever meeting and I feel like I can make a reliable prediction, and that's not what the psychologist is doing so I. Don't think I agree with everything that you're saying that the key to a continuing marriage is this learning about each other is communicating, but I'm talking about. Compatibility that gives you the right runway to be able to establish those things that you're talking about. I feel like is something that you can just sense in a sense kind of way. Now there are some people in this is. The case is unfair to put it on the first time you meet. Elevated after you've got married because there's plenty of no, I'm just saying at matting one hundred percent. Right what I'm saying that there is this i. you can sense compatibility pretty quickly. But. There's lots of people who get married young did not realize that they weren't I mean just because you're the two people people get married in your small town in the same year doesn't mean that you're compatible, right? It's it's statistics. You were in the right place at the right time. Then you start trying to figure out. Are you actually compatible a lot of this? That's where your commitment. Kind of goes into like you've got compatibility and you've got commitment. Right and compatibility on its own home doesn't cannot keep a marriage together forever. Commitment on its own can like. There are people who hate each other, but because they don't believe in divorce, they're just gonNA be together forever. I think that the beautiful marriages are the ones, and once there is a compatibility in that compatibility can grow because you change over time. Desk coupled with commitment that then there are these beautiful moments. We actually love each other. Have a great time with each other, but that's not always going to happen. Because I'm a human, you're human. I'm GonNa, be an astle. You're going to be an asshole and in those moments to get through the asshole moments. You gotTA stick. You gotta does when you gotTA. Have that commitment, place? And the only thing I'm saying it's a commitment to a crazy. It was to look at these couples and make a decision about I. I would add that. It's a commitment to a couple of things. It's not just a commitment to stain together I. Think IT'S A. is a commitment to being. You know it's. It's the reason why their vows like. You commit to the certain things that you're GONNA do. Serve and love the other person place there needs before your needs in sickness and in health like that sickness thing. That's that can get real tough right. Yeah, and if. You know so if That's a huge commitment, and it's a blind commitment, and for most people who haven't you know care for someone who's really been sick? So I think it's. It's a commitment to those things that that you're that. You're promising that you're gonNA. Put the that you're going to make it work. I'm committed to to to dancing with you. You know sometimes. The music is gonNA suck. Sometimes are laser GONNA be broken. You know. But. We're GONNA. We're we're committed to dancing together through life well. That's that's something that it requires constant cooperation and fidelity when I think that the the thing that is difficult for a lot of couples. Is. In this dish should be incorporated into the more traditional vows if it isn't. Community commit to communicate right and I don't I think that people have a difficult time in this can be personality based, but. You know. Sometimes when you're having a difficult moment with someone who's a friend, any any relationship? and. Sometimes what you have to do is you have to have that Meta conversation. You have to talk about the way that you talk to each other. You got to be like you have to sit some couples. Get to a place where? Oh. We're not really communicating. We're not connecting anymore. And we have lost the ability to talk about the fact that we're not connecting anymore. And I? Think that that happens in so many relationships right? It's like if you stop talking about the nature of your connection is going to be very difficult to get the connection back without first addressing that directly if you're just focused on the superficial stuff, the specifics of the current argument that you're in. But you haven't you haven't gotten to the. How do you actually connect and how you communicate solving? This particular problem is not going to be helpful. It's just GONNA kick the. Can down the road you know and I think that's what you're getting at earlier with the marriage counseling is like what it helps you having a third party a lot of times. Oh, we can have the uncomfortable conversation that we for some reason can't have with just the two of us, right. Through to that and not. Complain, not just premarital but like. Marriage therapy is is very good. You know you're saying sometimes you just have to bring in a third person in my therapist is my wife's therapist, which is not necessarily advisable across the board. But in our. Our Situation? Because a lot of times, what we're doing is we're talking about each other. is like well. My therapist has the other side of the story, and then occasionally, if it sir, if there's like an acute. We'll both go together. And that and that has been. That has been helpful. I think knowing that. Most relationships I'm not going to say all this entropy right of it, okay? You know this isn't GonNa last forever because we're both imperfect people that have are prone to selfishness and. we're not. We're not the same person. And we you know there's so many variables you never know what could be thrown at us as a couple so then? It's. Just having this mentality, okay, if that's the tendency, then we have to be vigilant about the threats to our relationship. From internal and external and just. Know that okay. We're GONNA. We're GONNA, identify and we're GONNA. WE'RE GONNA face. These threats head on, and not just because we know that that's that's what's most likely to happen. Is that something's GonNa come something's GonNa. Sneak up on you and then a few months. You're like okay. There's there's a wall that's built up. This is A. This is a threat to our marriage long-term. It's not just. Lean to a bad week or badmouth bright. So I you know I felt like I had this very. Heightened commit Chris. Parents are still together. You know my parents were. In my experience, we're never together. And so I just you know I had this. I had this mentality that like I I was going to like I was Gonna stay committed like I wasn't. Divorce was never an option. And I. I mean I don't. I haven't reassessed. Mentality. Maybe there's some negative aspects to that and I think you can lean on that and it's like. It minimizes the amount of work that goes into it. You just can't say well. Divorce is not an option like we've already talked about. That's not how you dance. just by saying I'm just GONNA I'M GONNA stand here and I'm going to be here. That's not dancing well and I. Sadistically I. You hear this thrown around, but I mean. I don't know of his true I don't know what the latest statistics are, but. I always heard when I was in the church that the divorce rate inside outside of the church is is about the same. Time I don I always found that hard to believe just because I didn't see as much divorce in the circles that I was in because it felt like people were more committed because they did have this sort of ideological underpinning that included. Divorce is not an option. and I do think that there is a there is a dark side to that. Because a lot of times, it ends up being an eyewitness this not not with friends, but just people that we like new and church where there would be like. This person is being emotionally. Maybe physically abused. Sure sure and yet they're staying in this marriage because they have this ideological commitment and that's. That's for them. For the kids, or for other reasons, or you know right, but as it applies to us, I think that 'cause I mean i. my parents are still together. Jesse's parents are still together. So I didn't have the same sort of like. Well I'm going to be different. but I brought the same mentality that you did to the marriage. Is like it is nice to have it off the table. You know where it's. You know where you agree from the beginning from before the beginning of being married that. Divorce under normal. Circumstances. Is is not an option. It's not we're not gonNA use it as a relational escape hatch. It's a it's a last resort. And I do think that there is again, and this is not when it comes to relational. I'm not I'm not judging anybody or not prescribing anything. I would have a difficult time. You know obviously kids changed the picture. Because now you've got. You've got some people who are going to be affected especially if their kids at your currently raising their in the house. But if there's a couple that again just like Mary and this show, which has become an ad for this show unintentionally. But, like okay, if you believe that getting married and getting divorced on a television show is wrong then. I can't argue with that that I'm not going to change your mind about that, but if you think that. These people came into this on their own volition. Then they together made the decision. They weren't compatible. They haven't brought any kids into this yet. and then they make a decision to mutually separate and get divorced then. I'm not going to be like well, you diss. Honored the institution of marriage by doing that and I'm also going to say if you know if it somebody. everyone has their own reasons for it. but I think that the idea that this this is like this isn't just a serious thing. This is a commitment that through all these potential circumstances that we're going to stay together, because if we don't think like that, we're going to see a way out. And then in the in the in your lowest moments you will, you might go for. For the door if you've installed the door, but if you've never installed the door, you're not gonNA leave, but you know what you could decide a certain point in relationship together. Hey, let's install the door. If you come to that conclusion as a couple and you're like I think that we need to seriously consider that we may not. Maybe we're not supposed to be in relationship with each other. There was a time in my life. When I subscribe to an evangelical worldview where I would be like that's the devil talking. You can't go there because that's you. You're talking about building the escape hatch in. You're gonNA, do it. My perspective on that has changed it's like it's not my role to judge other couples and how they go about that right but what I can say from speaking from own experiences that not building the escape hatch. Not Putting the Dorin has been one of the reasons I can point to for being married for nineteen years. For me. Yeah and and for me, too. Yeah I I do get. I'm sure there's people in our position who were saying similar things and then down the road they get divorced. Of course you know even that couple that I was making all these assumptions about because they're public. And now they're saying their friends and you know it's just that's just. Me Bring my sumptious to hide. I don't even know their names. What are their names? Let's say him, but. It, it does get complicated and I. You know I, don't. I. Do WanNa make a commitment to not? To not judge other people I. Mean because it's like. Who have been are going? I think that's clear because. What I hear you and me saying is that. If what you have collectively decided to do, is this then? There are certain decisions that you can make to help make that reality. Become a reality right that idea become a reality. But, but everything that you've made together. Decide that you wanted different reality youtube well, because everything that we're that we said seems to imply that the that the that the high road is to stay married forever married forever and I used to think. And there is something beautiful about it. I'm not gonNA with that and I do think there is something beautiful about like coming adversity in light, just the nature of commitment, but you know what there's plenty of examples of people who were in a difficult marriage, not just necessarily one that they needed to get out of for safety reasons, but just people who mutually discovered that they wanted something different, and now they're in their each other beautiful committed relationships. That's a reality as well and I'm in. There was a time in my life. Again if you subscribe to. Sort of conservative evangelical worldview. Then if you really read certain parts of the Bible in a certain way, then those marriages after divorce or illegitimate marriages. Yeah and I'm glad that I don't have to think that anymore. Because the observational, you know, my experience is that no, actually some of those marriages are better and healthier and better for these people and better for the world than the previous marriage. Yeah, I'm not going to cancel that marriage because I got some ideological commitment. Yeah, how do you think my mom felt over the years? When like culturally, we were in an environment where it was like. You can't I mean that's. You failed. You've something is wrong with you twice right? You know you're in your third marriage. Now it's like. You failed twice. And that's that's not what happened in many places. You're not qualified to be in leadership if if you're in a relationship like that. You've kind of like you've got this mark on you and you can never I mean I think we've said everything through the filter of the through the Lens of. We, we love our wives and. They love us and that's that's who I wanNA I. WanNa be with Christy. Until I die. Because she'll already be no or until she does I just want to cover the basis until one of us does. Is called till death. Do US far. I. Don't WanNA I don't WanNa start like they took care of that. Guys I. It's not until I. Are you die? It's till death. Do US part. Yeah, that makes it. You don't have to think about who dies I. You just say that you don't WanNa have to unravel that I told Jesse. She's younger than me. I'm tall I'm going to die I. I. Mean it's just I'm just going with the stats. Tall people live long. Sorry so very upset when I start talking like so commitment looks different for her than it does feed. Yeah, I might listen. If things go as according to just like nature, you're GonNa have at least a few years to just find a new man. How does that feel? Yeah I mean now. He hates when I thought I'd I'd love joke with her with her about it because she says things like well if I died. How long would it take you to get married? And and then I say things like. I don't know if I would get married. And then she gets really mad oh, really. Because, she wants you to get married. She don't want you to be. What philander flavor something I i. Haven't thought about it crossed that bridge. If we get there, you know what I'm saying. But like. I don't know. I'm a different person I am. If. You're honest, though I think what you would say I know what you would say, you'd say. Well I've been watching this show. I'm going to go on. It seems season three of married at first sight. Everyone is a widow or or a widow. Who I think I just gave you all good idea. That's going to get real heavy. It's the talk about talk about crying while you watch you. Hear all the stories spouse died. That's That's a bad idea, but as a producer. They've been talking about it oh. Yeah, hopefully, producer of married at first sight is is listening in, so we ended up just talking about. Marriage you know we talked about marriage, but we really just talking about our marriages thought about those four marriages on that television show as well I didn't really get into specifics. So. Is that your recommendation this week? This wasn't able to television show I know range. I'm GonNa Give You rain I'm going to give another recommendation on top of that. What is the name of the show is married at first sight saw net flicks I can only vouch for the most recent season. Don't know what season that is. It might be season to. Only four episodes in. Another wreck. Okay, they goes back to what we were talking about before. which is some of the things that we continue to be dealing with as a society for the betterment of our society, and it's a book that I AM. has I made a recommendation. My letter to a white man that I wrote, but I'm going to talk about specifically here and that is I'm still here. Black dignity in a world made for Whiteness by Austin. channing Brown. and this book. I'm just GONNA. Read the description here. That was made by whoever wrote this particular review. The Hello Sunshine Book Pick. REECE's book club from a leading voice on racial justice, and I opening account of growing up Black Christian female that exposes how wide America, why America's love affair with diversity so often falls short of its ideals. and I know that you started this book as well, but the the the general idea of the book is exactly what was just described there that. We can come to this place, and this is something that has happening in the midst of the movement right now where a bunch of white people can be. Yes, we value diversity, and we and we believe that that is a that is something that should be represented in our circles of friends and our businesses in our society in our leadership, and our legislature is the right thing to say, and it's an easy thing to say right now, but it's one. Her point is challenging to enact. She tells from very personal perspective what it has been like to be in white spaces as a black woman. In spaces that said this is what they valued and maybe even thought that this is what they valued, but didn't understand what that actually meant. it's incredibly challenging. It's incredibly eye opening I think actually I. Don't know if it was a New York Times bestseller from the beginning, or if it has become a New York, times bestseller in the midst of this movement, but it is a New York Times bestseller because it's two years old. But it is really sort of experiencing this new wave of interest, because it speaks so directly to the movement that has happening right now and I think more importantly or e, even more importantly for a couple of white dudes like us is asking the question of what does moving beyond valuing diversity. To making diversity and inclusivity. And sort of deconstructing this. You know, white is the norm mentality that a lot of have without even realizing it. What does it take to break that down? What does it? What does it take to move beyond that because that's the real? Work that needs to happen. is not recognizing the race. The racial injustice is doing something about it and real change so I'm still here by Austin channing. Brown and it is a pretty easy read, so no excuses for not checking this one out wherever you check out books, or you could just by the book as well. Don't just check it out all right. We'll speak again next week and please as always contributed to conversation using HASHTAG ear biscuits.