Policing During Corona


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Raymond says on a normal week he sees about three dead bodies but suddenly in the era of Corona it's upwards of nine or ten or more and lots of cops are getting it and lots more cops are calling out sick. Should they right now? Be Arresting people for Petty Crimes and bringing them to jails where the chance of getting corona is high. Should they be arresting people for not practicing social distancing and then bringing them to jails like rikers where risking getting corona? Should they be over policing black neighborhoods as they normally do a masking lieutenant? Raymond all of that. Because he's a unique officer who's been battling the force from within the force for years demanding they not use quotas and treat black and brown citizens more fairly. It's a tough battle and he's going to have to watch his back for the rest of his life but he believes it's worth it. Of course this is the patron era of Toray shows. If you want to hear the second half of this amazing interview and get our Friday exclusives please subscribe at Patriot. Dot Com Slash Toray show. That's patriotic dot com slash talk ratio. Show for just five dollars a month. You'll get all these episodes to a week and you'll be helping our team now it's Lieutenant Edwin Raymond. Nypd Brooklyn on Toray. Show Lieutenant. How many dead bodies have you seen in the last week or two versus? How many do you normally see when you're out patrolling so it's been about fifteen in less than two weeks normally in less than two weeks might be one you know back? That's how much of a difference. It's been since distinct hit colleagues Wesley to other precincts they have seen exponential increase also on one precinct nine thousand nine hundred forty eight hours on one a precinct yesterday. Eight in just the morning shift another precinct. Twenty seven days this. We've never seen anything like this before. What are other ways that you 'cause you're in the front lines of dealing with this while the rest of us are at home trying to stay safe. What are other ways that you have seen the impact of corona in your day to day work? Some people who have other conditions are avoiding the hospital in a way of trying to avoid corona and then they end up. You know unfortunately assing away. Because they didn't get the medical help that they needed. So this thing is it's creating a just a web of issues. I'm noticing a lot of statistics. Coming out just today and yesterday noticing. Black and Brown people are dying from this more. And we're seeing statistics in Michigan and Wisconsin and Illinois reflecting that not because the virus discriminates of course the virus does not know a black body from Brown body but health conditions class conditions our relationship to hospitals and doctors because of historic conditions. Those things play in and leave black bodies and Brown bodies more vulnerable to this and that is having an impact on outcomes. Are you seeing that in your work? Absolutely I mean that's enhanced racism definition right there Also many of the essential workers who are still out there seventy five percent of them all black and Brown folks so people out there You know just more in a in a position a more susceptible to contracting this happen to be black and Brown folks in the New York City Police Department. So we'd lost eight employees all of them black same thing in the transit. Mta transit subway system. They've all been black. And so yeah. This is this is this is my experience is what I'm witnessing. I mean it's having a huge impact on the police. Department is a non some statistics that said The NYPD infection rate is four percent versus the city. As a whole is half of a percent I spoke to a lieutenant. I spoke to a supervisor the other day who said one in four from the eighth precinct. One of four of his Officers are being infected. So what are you seeing inside the force? Your I mean I just you. I just can't practice socialistic. We wouldn't be able to get our jobs done if we if we could. And I believe that that's a direct reflection of reality. If something goes on I gotTa Take Police Action. I have to be outdated. Educate the people have to be out there to let the people to you? Don't have to ask the people to go inside on a. I find a lot of people walking to and from the train stations. And when asked what are they doing they just happened to go for train? Ride going to check some friends and you know. Unfortunately the people are not taking the serious now. This is what I've been finding so as police officer having to be out there it's inevitable we're we're we're just more with more susceptible to this. Do you think that some black people who may be historically skeptical of the news are not taking this seriously and are kind of going about their thing as normal and making themselves more vulnerable? That's that's one of the things that I'm finding some people say I don't trust the media. Cetera on this actually found people that say black people can get this you know You know unfortunately people are not educated enough about what how detrimental. This thing is But definitely the historical you know cynicism that exists between certain communities in the medical field that that that exacerbates the issue also and you've seen some business owners. Even as we talk the other day some business owners trying to slide around. Tell me about the restaurant that tried to pretend it was closed. The restaurant in In Queens where the front gate was remained close as the business itself was closed but they had side entrance and they were at full full. Dining nosal waiters everything. We didn't have social distancing going on on thankfully state ago already pull their license and probably GonNa lose anti-business now you know you go from being able to sell alcohol not GonNa hurt you. That's GONNA hurt profits. But that's what you risk. I mean what else? What else can we expect we? We've seen a small number of people be arrested for not practicing social distancing and that puts them in a very difficult situation where they go into a cell. That's not clean. Where social distancing is impossible Which puts them even more at risk of catching something and then spreading something when they go back. What about that? Is that an effective way to deal with the situation. And people who aren't paying attention it's really not And it's a last resort that you know you know. I've known for criticizing department when it gets things wrong but this is the most part it's been it's been right. It's a last resort. Some people like the businesses especially if they have to be able to enforce The you know the shutdowns if not the no one's GonNa shut down because its profits in terms of taking individuals we we're trying our best Tha that because you know it. It's it can be deadly. Yeah a lot of people are talking about. Should the police lay off on arresting around small crimes at this at this time? Because you're putting people into trouble as well as you know. Should we be letting people out of rikers because exposing them to a deadly virus becomes torture? You know what do you think about that? Part on the form of the latter will both Welsh. You know to to make an actual declaration. Small crimes are going to be enforced. I don't think that's the best way to go to actually declare it. Obviously offsets have discretion given the situation I would imagine that also gonNA use discretion appropriately in terms of inmates. The minute I started realizing this thing is a lot more serious than the president was making. It seem I realized that the you know the the prison system and the jail system it you know we're going to have to make some really tough decisions as to how we should go about it. for the low level things. I believe yeah we have. It's it's an emergency week. We can let those guys go which should treat space to allow. Those were convicted of more serious crimes to be able to spread out enough to to be so social on. The reality is when some people want to admit it or not. There are people who genuinely a mini society that detrimental to the community if they're out in about One thing I'll bet medias reported from from what ads ride people are still getting shot. Mistreat for beef. Certain violent crimes are happening possibly at a higher rate because unfortunately the people taking advantage. Or what's going on right now. The fact that it's okay to wear a mask the fact that not too many people are GonNa be out to Whitton certain things so we still unfortunately have to. You know have a grip on on crime while simultaneously trying to keep people healthy is crime in general has been. Let's say the last shoot three weeks. This thing has become hysteria that everybody's trying to pay attention to deal with. Has Crime in general stayed the same gone up gone down within that two to three week period in general. It's it's lower because people are in out but certain violent crimes are the numbers are I would say either the same or maybe even a little higher particularly shoes shocking to see the amount of shootings that still going on. It makes no sense even supposed to be out. That's crazy are you. How how afraid are you for your safety? What about the average officer who may not be exactly like you but similarly doing the same job? How afraid officers that they I I know. Lots of thousands of officers are calling out sick. I'm sure many of them actually are sick. Many of them are reasonably afraid. What happens if I get? How frayed are you as an officer? I mean everyone's concerned obviously not just about especially with the you know the information that you could be asymptomatic and carry this and give it to someone else. People don't want to bring this home today. Older parents and grandparents even the children own wants to catch. No one wants to bring people love. No one wants to contract with themselves. No one wants to get unhealthy died. So what we're all concerned. I try to protect myself. Brushfire already practice good hygiene now at this point. I just wear masks and gloves. Went on patrol A mask at all times gloves depending on what jobs I'm responding to. Ibm conscious person. I'm going to have my gloves on etcetera. But I'm yeah everyone's concern offices which we wish we could stay home. We wish we could many also said I wish I wasn't essential Falling by you know we have to kind of job is to help keep society going at this point so we we we report to work spike thousands. Who have Gone Sekine are self quarantining. I mean there must be an emotional impact on the force when something like a quarter of the force is saying that they are sick. Thousands of others are self quarantining for whatever reason so there's a diminished number of of men and women who are actually able to do the job So what is the emotional impact on folks. As they're they're fewer people are being asked to do more hours. Yeah well yeah. That's you know people like from seeking a college any minute now any minute now. We're going to get this thing. We probably already have it. You know. So it's it's It's been tough. It's been tough on on on my personnel in the rest of the the force but again this is something that we've no one really ever dealt with you know in the in so we we're writing. We're writing this thing as we go along. You know we're trying to figure it out as we all love. Toray show and you miss the days of me talking about politics on. Msnbc and really who doesn't then check out my other podcasts. Democracy Ish where see with Daniel Moody Mills and Argue and strategize about the twenty twenty race may black and progressive perspective. Seen many beam talk about the CUOMO sexual. Did you can find democracy. You're wherever podcast or streamed right back to Toray show and your jurisdiction is in Brooklyn Right. Correct Brooklyn is has Brooklyn and Queens. Have more positives than Manhattan and the other parts of like we Brooklyn Queens. Are the hot spot of the hot spot. New York City is really. You know it's very very difficult. I mean you know there's Brooklyn Queens also are areas that a lot of people have talked about Over policing in something that you have criticized in your work but you know you wonder. What is the impact on black and Brown people when they live in neighborhoods that are consistently historically over policed and now the police are charged with not just stopping crime but keeping people physically apart right and there's already a basic fear and a lot of people in a lot of officers in a congregation of black people especially young black men? Like what impact is that having? It's it's been a strange experience. 'cause there are some people who stay inside who understand what's going on the some of the younger folks. This is like a joke to them. They don't get it so causes Avoidable interactions with with offices. And you know I just wish people understood more. I mean the cops for the most part they you know they have been responding to crowds in groups on father reasons so that it's not too different in that sense Although they trying to keep himself safe and for the for the people in the street to them they just see it as being harassed they don't they don't see this as something different. You know. They don't see it as any different than broken windows. Policing COPS coming bother us you know. But that's that's been that's been trump minimal. It hasn't been as bad as it could be thankfully but still that way too many people out that I wish were were inside. I mean for a lot of black and Brown people in the hood staying in the House all day especially in public housing. Where you know. The space can often be quite small. There may be several people multiple generations living in one small space staying in the house. All Day is nearly impossible right and I know I mean like just talk about that. I mean like they sort of feel a need to be out and they're violating the guidelines. But they it's very very hard for them to just stay in the House all day. Long Ample Square footage square They square feet at home. They you know they. They're getting cabin fever. So you can imagine someone who can Lives in a two bedroom apartment. That has ten people in that You Know Multiple Generations Kids. Elderly outside is the escape from that. So they they. It's much more difficult for them to go to stay in because And people just go. Home is where they shower and sleep for their. They don't spend any time inside a because of the living situation stuff for some people but we have to get this done the quicker get it done quicker. We mitigate this thing in the quicker we can start opening up our society. That's that's how people have to see it. They have to see the whole picture because they are simply told to stay inside and don't understand. This is what leads to getting back to some as close to normal as possible because as we can imagine that we're probably never GONNA go back to complete normal if they see that way. I think they might comply better. But from but I do empathize with those. Who Don't have the best home situations and outside? Is that escape? It's crazy to think that we will never go back to complete normal that that those of us who are living through this will probably never forget it and will you know always. I mean like you know Steve Kornacki on MSNBC. They talked about his grandmother. Ray going through the depression. The Great Depression and always having expectations inhabits that were shaped by that and I could easily see. You know. Always not wanting to shake hands. You know I'm GonNa fist-bump everybody goes forward always wanting to make sure that. I have a stack of money nearby. Because who knows if you know 'cause corona too is going to happen right like this. This strain was bad enough. There'll be another one five ten at some point down the road. This something similar will happen again. Maybe even worse you know would what are the ways that you think that this will have a long-term or even permanent effect on people one of the things I've already been digging about? I had no idea that a virus will come in and exacerbated. Speed it up automation. It's going to take away a lot of jobs. This situation is going to speed up automation in ways that we never saw coming you. Don't self-checkout is is Joe. Compared to what's coming on. We already have trades. That can run themselves. One of the things that's causing less strains is the fact that a Lotta transit workers have called out so in ten years that might not be the case because they the computer might be running the whole show. So that's GONNA affect a lot of jobs a lot of jobs. Amazon's working on a drone of a few years ago. The technology already exists cards already. Drive themselves you know that that Amazon truck that does deliveries. It has technically doesn't need a driver on this is this is. That's one of the things that I think it's going to hit the hardest on people's jobs because this is forcing companies to see just how far technology can be pushed to get the job done instead. people are learning that a. Lotta meetings don't have to happen in physical spaces. London meetings don't have to happen exactly. I don't even that so so that's one of the biggest changes That I see coming in terms of the medical field. I'm hoping some of the good changes is We we understand that certain. Things are essential for society to flow and unfettered. Capitalism is not the way to go when it comes to start being. You know I get it. I understand that this is what is country was founded on. But we might have to. We have to make some changes when it comes to education a medical health care. We have to make changes that across the pond. They realize decades ago. You know I think we we're going to be forced to have to make those changes. Are there changes that you see in the future of policing that will stem from this situation from this moment arm in terms of procedure responding to conscious people at home who have passed on. I think a lot more precautions are going to be taken. I've seen right now. Detectors not has met suits to go into those to go into those situations that might become something more permanent on other ways in which honestly laws might get passed so that if we ever have to order people to stay at home they're motif it's more enforceable which again is is one of the things you want to avoid. Because of the way that a virus you know science behind how viral spreads but those are the things I see changing in law enforcement when you go and e just because when I read about what. Ebola did to the body and the violent effect that Ebola hat on the body that it really Took my understanding of what was going on with that that that situation to another level as a is there a different look to the dead corona body verses other diseases or other causes of death. I'm not that really from what I've seen only because a lot of times the person dies it's discovered in the morning when people realize you know uncle didn't wake up or westbound and a lot of times. It's it's pretty fresh and usually when it's fresh you you don't you don't see much yet on this you know. Reading mortis takes a little longer. You can So I had Britney Stack had a witness anything that stands out really. I wonder if I wonder what will be the impact of the amount of death that we are all about to experience because right now as we talk I believe the New York number or the national numbers around six thousand dead and that's going up about a thousand a day so far and the national models are suggesting we could have one to two hundred thousand dead and many of them happening in April and May so that's a rapid increase in the number of people. Dying all the time in April and May. What is the massive number of folks dying? What is that doing to you? And your brothers and sisters in blue What impact is that having? I mean it's affecting me. Amanda join seeing this all. What are the things that keeps me dedicated to the people as I take my job? Very personal very serious. So when someone's grandmother or aunt are ankle or father or brother is dead in a room and the entire family is sitting in a semicircle in the living room trying the eyeballs out I feel it you know and again this happened to maybe once or twice a month skull many times in such a short period of time it starts to affect me. I'll be honest on at the time is a surrealism that goes on. Bet allows you to stay professional and deal with it as a professional but then you process it later I would. I think I'm going to have to get back to to honestly to that question as to just how much of a toll it takes. But I'm already failing I've never seen so many dead people in such a short period of time and the number is only going to rise in the colleagues with without obviously getting into names in specific identifying details is there a story of That stands out for you. That is particularly hard. The of you know we got a call. We had to go somewhere and somebody you know. Somebody was already gone from corona something that happened recently that it sticks with you. Yeah the guy. Unfortunately we found him stiff on his back yet roommate tool so I'm laying on the floor and acts the d. need an ambulance and he said he'll be fine is just get me. Some water. Got Him the ward announced. Last time I saw him a lot. You know and it's like wow you know you had no idea has last moments were were approaching and When we check the C would would expect the weekends with his grandchildren. Miller like child seats in the back of his car and Yeah it's just like wow let's it this weekend there will be no weekend with Granddad. This weekend I mean it shouldn't because of the social distancing but it will never be again you know and that's really out. Unfortunately it's amazing. How many stories have gone around and still allow people are not getting ill yeah? I've run into these conspiracies about five g. you know and the installation of five. G. Hours and film your hospital and it's like come on man in the comfort of your living room you know in the bleaches having no idea what people on the front lines go into. This becomes a something it. It's to me. It's disrespectful. You know you scared to go to work on my dedication to the people. I've already made a decision in terms of criminal justice reform. Now every made a decision at the people are worth it This is different. I never saw something like this coming. But again you the call of duty it just it suppresses all of those emotions and you you just focus on getting the job done you know and to me. It's a blessing to be able to be out in the community that I work at now. People recognize me and then they'll come up to me and say I've never you know. Never can't approach a cop and tell them I'm proud of the March But I know who you are thinking for what? You're what you're doing. Thank you for what you've done for us. We feel the difference. You know so that that. That's that's motivation. I in particular have gone out of your way to be critical of the department in many ways And to be somebody who is trying to make the police force better you know and what blowback has. That had For you here because officers don't necessarily want somebody going around policing the department and trying to make them You know follow all the laws and all the rules and be with you know be the best of so they can be you know. I mean the corners get cut people you know and I think people get spoiled perhaps or ruined in a way by the job right because you're constantly coming up against the worst of humanity. People acting their worst or having gone through their worst moments You know I imagine the cynicism Ro role rise up pretty high You know the the sense that humanity is you know is is nothing rides up pretty high. So what has been the impact on you for as you're trying to police or improve the department it's been a combination it's a it's it's three. It's some people are just completely ignorant. Who who I am doing. We just come into work been buried but making sure that check claims to as long as the jet claims every two weeks. They're good to go the Nisbet those who you know they hate they. They hate me. I don't know there's no other word for it. They see me an eyesore on the fact that I'm a supervisor the supervisor's supervisor now And I've been so outspoken. They don't understand why haven't been crushed that on the stand while I'm on the job they see me as anti police if it's your anti-police while you're on the job and even though I'm speaking to create a better police department them to be they just can't see it that we did unable to separate themselves as individuals from the department as an entity. Swim Department gets criticized. They take it very personal. You know it's as if I'm criticizing them individually on which is insane because that's just not the case But then there are those who it with tears in Iraq's Shia their own personal stories of what they went through because of enforcement quotas and having to target black and Brown folks And how thankful they are. That things have gotten a lot better A lot better. A numbers game is not what it used to be and they noticed that it's because of NYPD. Twelve the efforts of myself in others who decided to speak out. So that's been the three people who are ignorant people who actually can't stand the fact that I'd zest and people who very grateful for what I've done. Thanks so much to lieutenant. Raymond for an EPA interview. And thanks to you for listening. And thanks to our Super Producers Brid Jerry Michaels Smith Marcus Carcass. Noel San Montus and Jason Reynolds joins US OVER AT PATRON DOT COM Slash Torah. Show for more from the tender. Raymond get an extra episode. Every Friday only for Patriot subscribers. Toray show gives you fuel to power your dreams because you can use your dreams like a rocket ship to blast you into a life. You never imagined you can make your dreams a reality and this show can help. You can find me on twitter at Taurean on Instagram at Tora Ratio Patriarch at Patriot. Dot Com slash tour. A show story shows written by me Tori and produced by Jackie. Garofano our editors Ryan Woodhall. Our photographers are chuck. Marcus and Chanda Covington are booker. Is Claudia Sean and were distributed by D. C. P. Entertainment and we will be back on Friday and on Wednesday with more amazing guests because the man can't shut us down.

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