Stafford's Gone...So What Now for Patriots?
He's been rigged the guard Patriots podcast with Nick cabins. You know, I did my column for bsj that night that it happened. And and so the logical thing was to go through. All right. Well, where are we on the QB Market? Because really Nick when we started talking about this the Rams weren't really on the list, right? You knew they were maybe an outside possibility, but in terms of like real suitors for Stafford you figured I you know the Colts, you know, maybe Washington maybe the Patriots say that San Francisco. Yep, and so a lot of us including myself just because I I would like to see the Patriots wind up with a better quarterback situation this past year. I was rooting for the 49ers to get in there and I thought he would be sort of the right fit. What's interesting is that you know, Kyle Shanahan basically Sean mcvay's basically a Kyle Shanahan disciple, so he did go to that tree, but he wage To McVeigh instead and so that's a real, you know, upset to the offseason Carousel for the quarterbacks that we have been talking about and that will be talking about Thursday until it's over probably into and through the draft at this point. So I thought that the the biggest shock was that the Rams came out of nowhere. Not that I don't think Stanford an upgrade on golf. I do, you know, we could talk about the compensation and and how outlandish it was or not. But for me in terms of how it affects the Patriots the first one run through after this with Stafford off the board. I really didn't have anybody for the Patriots. I didn't have I had I had the Broncos holding a steady job with Drew lock. I had the 49ers holding steady with Jimmy Garoppolo, and I had the Patriots with nobody and that really scared me and Confused me off. And now I did it a second time and I said, all right. Well, maybe they're maybe that's another upset maybe because of the Rams making their move and they're in the same division and McVeigh and off hand have a rivalry. Right is Shanahan going to stay put I think that maybe he does make a move and I think if he does make a move, I think it's for a guy he's worked with before he thinks running this system grade has run a system great in the past and that's Kirk Cousins. But again, there's no guarantee that the Vikings are going to get rid of cousins cuz it's a huge dead cap hit for them to get rid of them. So Nikki know what you think, but for me and the Patriots, I think this was a this was not a good move for them and it's a little bit scary out there. There's a lot to unpack phone number one the idea of the Rams getting this deal done. This is business as usual for Less need and Company. I mean continue to bail on the future and they say hey we're going to deal as many first-round picks as we can log. To bring back Talent Jalen Ramsey Brandin Cooks. And now of course Matthew Stafford. I had tweeted before the weekend hit that sure the Rams were a possibility but I found it to be very tough. They were Thirty million dollars in the red. They did not have a first-round pick this up coming April and they had Jared Goff to get rid of I had no idea that Detroit would say yeah, we'll take Jared Goff in a forty million dollars guaranteed still left on that contract. I think again, we've got to look at these specific situations Brad Holmes from the Rams organization now running the Lions operation and Detroit and so homes obviously has familiarity with Jared Goff and feels like he's at least a good quarterback. I'm not a big fan, but hey to each his own and of course the Rams they had to pay because of the contract that they gave Jared Goff which was asinine in this again goes in line with what they've done Tavon Austin Robert Quinn. You can go to Todd Gurley Jared Goff all of those guys dead. First-round picks and after their third year signed to extensions that backfired every single one of them. So because again, you're stuck with that kind of situation in that contract backfired on you again, you had to give up an extra first-round pick. So now you got to give up two first-round picks and a third not only to bring Stafford in but also to get rid of that golf contract as long as far as the NFC West Greg, you know, you look at quarterbacks and right now San Francisco, I mean where they at, right? I think you're right. They've got the 4th ranked quarterback in that Vision. You've got Marie. You've got Russell Wilson and now you've got Stafford. Yep. I I would tend to agree with you, especially when you when you factor in durability. And you know, what's Belichick always says the best ability is availability. Jimmy just hasn't had it. Point Blank now, that's not to say it's going to continue. There's a belief in NFL circles that a lot of players just go through stretches and it can be multiple years. I remember covering Aaron Rodgers and he was like this at the beginning of his career when Favre was still there. I mean every time Aaron Rodgers got a chance to play his first couple of years. He got hurt and maybe that's the that's the way it is with Jimmy, who knows as far as the draft compensation, you know, I know people look at it and they're they're over the Moon. I mean, I like it for the lions in terms of I like how they're not getting a first-round pick this coming year. It's down the line because look I think the Rams are going to be probably pretty good for this one year at least maybe two but after that with with a team with the lions that you know is just rebuilding those are great building blocks for them and you know, who knows what else they can add their repertoire done online. Now as far as the compensation itself, basically the way it works in the NFL is You know first round picks are a little bit different but largely future Pixar are valued one round later. So a first in 2022 is actually a second or Thursday. It's somewhere along those lines or like a very late one budget a first-round pick, you know, three years out is viewed as like a late second-round pick that's just the way it's viewed and what have you but you're right in terms of the calculation that it was basically the deal was a first and a third for for Stafford and then it was off first to get rid of golf and and really the Rams had Very few chances or opportunities in terms of teams that they could do this with it had to be somebody who was going to have cap space and who was going to be rebuilding that they didn't mind taking a cap hit basically for two years but recouping a first-round pick so it was a very limited pool in terms of that and you know congrats on the Rams on finding somebody to do that song, you know, you're right the Rams are a whole separate side topic the thing less need and what he does. Let's leave that to the side. Yeah, but just in terms of Sean McVay, you know, he's still very young in his career. I'm starting to worry a little bit Nick about him that he's starting to get a a Young Jon Gruden 5 to me in age and McVeigh actually studied under John group. And that's where he came into the league. That's where he learned were Gruden is this reeks of You know, I I it's my scheme. Yeah, and my scheme Works. Yep, and if it's not working that means the players work executing the scheme aren't working. Yes, especially the quarterback and you know, how do you fall in love and out of love? I mean look say what you want about your golf and I certainly have my issues with him. But in that scheme with McVeigh off the guy stats her off the charts. He's won a crapload. They were how many minutes away from winning a Superbowl two years ago. You give him a contract extension and like less than two years later. You're you're trading them out of town unloading him. And so and really is Stafford that much of an upgrade on golf. Like I I think he's better but look Matthew Stafford hasn't won. He hasn't put his the Lions ever over-the-top. They they they never really want any games that they shouldn't have and he's thirty-three with dead. Bat bad back and you know, who knows there's a lot of Whispers in NFL circles just about you know, his intangibles in the locker room. Yeah, he's been tough and tough things out and we thought that but there's a piece missing. There's always Nick, you know that I was in the NFC North and so I saw Stafford a couple of times a year. I've gone there for Patriots joint practised. I spent a decent amount of time in Detroit and every time I go there I don't know there's just there's something missing with Matthew Stafford and and it's it's a bold move for the Rams. I like them. He was my white whale of the off-season I thought he quarterback that was going to be available. I think when he's healthy, he's the top ten quarterback and I don't I don't put his losses on just him some of them certainly but when you play for a trash organization Detroit has been and they just did not surround him enough, especially at defense has been a dumpster fire for a long time. So, yeah, I don't know how much you can cover up ugly right you can proud of you can try to put lipstick on the pig but inevitably birth. A pig and that's what Detroit has been. It's been a big fat pig for the last decade or so, so I'm not going to put all of that on staff are now let's go through your your second run down. You mentioned that you kind of went through the roll-call of quarterbacks took might land where and how it would affect the Patriots. So let's do it the Jaguar first Trevor Lawrence, we agree yet. That's going to happen. Second pick the Jets have it. You have them trading with Houston and bringing into Sean Watson. I actually agree with that as well. I do think that's the deal that eventually happens. I do think that the Sean Watson is with the Jets. You have the Falcons selecting Zach Wilson now dead and this is day. I did not have the Dolphins on the list. So I skipped over the Dolphins and they could be in play to they could be another team that although it does kind of sound like but you never know this time of year smoke screens puts out Mike and they hire Charlie Frye to be the quarterbacks coach. He coached to at the Elite 11 Camp. So there is a tie in there with their new hire at quarterback coach. Let's see what they do with o t o c which hasn't off. Well for Flores to into out his first two years, let's see what they bring in there. But I would agree with you. I think Miami sticks with two unless they pull the trade with Watson and really you're just flip-flopping if Miami trades for Watson could see the Jets use the pick and draft Zach Wilson. You had the selecting Wilson I kind of would go at Fields there. He's a Georgia kid. Now who No, rookie quarterback, and then you have anything early enough you have Detroit at second-guessing this now, like now that I'm looking at it. Yeah, I was surprised by that and I kind of I put it in bold and italicized it cuz it jumped out to me that you know, they just traded for golf and I was wondering if if that is more your evaluation of golf and you don't believe that he's going to be the long-term answer or you just like Trey Lance that much couple of things on that number one when I did this it was mostly I'm not the biggest golf fan and I'm like, you know, he's just a placeholder and you are wage. To him basically for two years, but you know you could do the Alex Smith Patrick Mahomes thing, which is what I would do because as we've seen there's nothing more valuable than a quarter bath and you know, who knows if Jared Goff all of a sudden takes off in Detroit, then you trade trade Lance or what-have-you Patriots quarterbacks barely ever lose value, but now looking at it off, I think they skip over a quarterback this year and but now now it gets interesting now that if Trey Lance or who have you exact William Wilson or Justin Fields, all of a sudden gets to say the 7 range and 8 range now, I think now I think you're looking at possibly the 49ers in the Vikings and you know, you look Washington and the Colts are going to be looking for a quarterback too. I think all of a sudden that's Prime trade area trade up and do the Patriots it that out. Watch other teams do that. I think that's sort of The X Factor. Yeah, it's interesting. I want to get to that in a couple of minutes because you think that's the the biggest question now that we have that Stafford's off the market. I just kind of look at them and I take the gist of it. Okay, you've got the Jags the Jets the Falcons the Panthers, I think you've got four teams in the top eight that want a quarterback and I think all of those teams will end up with a quarterback. I think one of those teams will end up with DeShaun Watson. So the way to look at this is the Jags the Jets the Falcons and the Panthers they all get a quarterback and it leaves one rookie quarterback left in my rookie quarterback that has left his trail and I don't think the the Lions make that pick I think they draft elsewhere to address the defense. They need a bunch Gala day is a free agent Marvin Joseph. They suck everything. So the best are available go 7 and then I think you know if fields are Wilson is there at 8 then the Panthers draft them because we just saw that the Panthers reportedly according to friend Bert Breer birth. They offered the 8th pick and something else for SNAP. So they're obviously in the market for the quarterback you're looking at we've been talking about for a while. Yep. And then I have that other quarterback that falls which would be trained to have that falling to I have him falling to Denver at night. So, yep. Now you start to look at it and you try to figure out what's going to happen from there because if all the four quarterbacks are gone, all the four rookies are drafted which I think they will in the top eight or nine and DeShaun Watson has been traded again. The question is what is left. Now, you have the Forty Niners you mentioned this a little while ago. You've got San Francisco trading for Kirk Cousins and there has been some momentum over the last 48 hours kind of picking up the idea of San Francisco making that move. I just, you know, if they made that move it would make sense cousins is more durable. I think one more solid year left on his contract. So if he doesn't work out they can kind of scrap and start all over again. I don't think they love Jimmy Geez. I don't even know if they like them a lot. I mean, it just seems to me that they're they're far from committed. You know last you can you Nick how can not to interrupt you but how can you be I mean every year that gets hurt. I mean, what are you trying to build like you're trying to win football games? If you're quarter, if you don't know your quarterback can be out there all the time then what are you building now? Of course I'm saying that and I want the Patriots to get them. But I mean, I'm just looking at it from the 49ers. I mean, maybe the Patriots think differently. Maybe they think will protect them better or this or that but in terms of San Francisco, like, how can you read what it to him if he's never of? Yeah, and when he was out there even more like to me even more than that Greg when he's been out there. They haven't asked to do much, you know, you go into a playoff game and you ask your quarterback to throw eight passes away when you're in the you know, Superbowl, they didn't ask them to do too much in the Superbowl and then when he had to do something in the Superbowl, he literally put up one of the worst fourth quarters. We've ever seen a quarterback having that game. So even when they log Needed him. They haven't necessarily said all right, we believe in Jimmy G throw the ball thirty five times. We're going to win this one day one mostly because of their defensive line and even a decent secondary, which is Richard Sherman. So they've they've one off of that Robert solid defense and they've won off the Run game in the Kyle Shanahan zone-read kind of Run game that that's how they want. They have not bought one games because Jimmy G is said jump on my back fellas. He's proven he can manage games and all that stuff, but you need a lot of things to work around him and it's interesting. I think the same thing can be said for Kirk Cousins. I think he's the kind of quarterback where if not everything is perfect around him. He's not going to be good enough. So maybe you get a slight upgrade. I think it would be more as you're saying that would be more of an indictment on the inability Garoppolo to stay on the field. That's why they would move because it's a slight Shanahan and Lynch might look at it and say well that's a slight upgrade but we feel confident that we'll have them for sixteen games Garoppolo. Who the hell knows so if it falls this way, you've got cousins going to San Francisco. You've got Minnesota then drafting Mac Jones, which would make sense if they dealt cousins and then you have Jimmy G Going to the Patriots. You also have Derek Carr to the Raiders Sam darnold to the Jets. So in this in this iteration of moves, you've got Jimmy G Donald to the Colts sir, Donald Donald to the Colts came from the Jets. And so in this iteration, you've got the Patriots getting Jimmy G. Now here here are my options and I want your thoughts on on this I think without Stafford and interestingly enough. I will get into how much the Patriots reportedly offered for Stafford which was interesting to me. But first foremost the number one option to me Greg and I don't know if you agree is for the Patriots to be Uber aggressive and the craft move up and land one of the top four quarterbacks. I think that should be option number one on the table. Well, that's it's an interesting thought and why don't I give you my answer right after I tell you about betonline.ag wage? 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I think option number one for this team should be be super aggressive and move up in the first round and get one of those top four quarterbacks. Yeah. Look, I'm not going to discount it. I'm I'm not going to say that I hate it. I just think that I think the Patriots are going to go with a veteran now. Will they will this be a Ryan Fitzpatrick type veteran or will it be somebody that that they make a move for I couldn't tell you. I mean, I just know that especially off this year with Cam. They've just realized they need a certain type of quarterback to operate their system and you know could involve a rookie at some point. Yeah that they trade up for sure. Yeah, but I think it's much more likely that that rookie sits so somebody's going to have to play. Okay, so I think yeah, you don't need a number one. I've got three doors. You're not the biggest fan of door. Number one, which is the Uber aggressive move up into the top or so to land that quarterback option to door. Number two is Jimmy G pag acquire him from San Francisco. You also draft Mac Jones at fifteen. Do you like door number two? I like it better than door. Number one. I mean at least that you get Jimmy the guy who can operate the offense and who knows what it's upside is maybe he's passed all his injuries like we talked about and off and he takes off and in that case you have Mac Jones and hopefully there's preseason down the line and things like that where you can showcase them and trade them if need be he can become the new Jimmy Garoppolo so to speak and so I like it. All right door number three is the veteran and so the question is who Could That Guy be if we say that Jimmy G because in your thoughts run through the quarterback class you had Jimmy G staying in San Francisco. So let's say that Jimmy G stays in San Francisco. Not a lot of options if you're not going to move up into the top eight to draft one of those top four quarterbacks, if you're not going to draft Mac Jones at fifteen or let's say Mac Jones Goes to the Vikings, which is your second run through at Fourteen and I would say if the Patriots like Mac Jones to try to LeapFrog Minnesota to draft him if that was the case, but let's say Mac Jones goes to Minnesota at 40,000. We're now looking at the rest of the Heap at quarterback. You're looking at Jameis Winston Ryan Fitzpatrick and Cam Newton a couple of other guys right off Andy Dalton out of all those guys. Where would you go Well out of that group of guys, I would probably go with Dalton. He was a guy that I wanted to to try this past off-season, you know, I wouldn't hate taking a wage Jameis but I just think his motion is too slow and I don't think he process is quite as quickly as you would like even though he's an upgrade over Cam Newton, but really I I think my sort of Dark Horse candidate Nick is dead. I want them to go get Gardner Minshew. I just think I think a lot of the guy I think he's he's the type of leader that you want. I've seen him throw with good anticipation. He has good film. He had some bad film. But if they could beat the, you know not beat if they can get the wild bucking bronco out of them a little bit. I think you got something there. I think my dark-horse candidate is Gardner Minshew. I think that he would be a good fit here. Here's what I don't want. I don't want half measures and I feel like now in getting one of those veteran guys as a half-measure like to me. You've got to find a quarterback and bought a bring in somebody who might not be significantly better than Cam Newton for 20 21. That's a problem. Like if you have the opportunity, which is why I say, my number one month option is to be aggressive move up and get the guy if you think the guy exists if you love Zach Wilson or Trail Lance or Justin fields and you have the opportunity to move up even if it costs you fifteen in a first-round pick next year do it because the most important thing is having the quarterback the guy that's going to be there for the next Dozen Years. And you know, I'm I'm a little concerned that we're going to see these half measures in the reason why another reason why I'm concerned Greg is not just a lack of options but their reports, I think it was Burt who wrote that the Patriots off. A second round pick and a player for Stafford that was their offer and to me that tells me they weren't serious to me that tells me that again they're going to draw the line and say we're not going to pay as much as I pay. And so now we're in that discussion again, right? We'll Belichick take the risk and trade she has to trade to get a guy is whether it's in the draft aggressively move up or just go out there and get a veteran because you know that offer for Jimmy for Stafford office is probably I don't know the fourth or fifth best offer that was on the table. So Belichick was not willing to bend over backwards to get Stafford. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that look I think what what the offer tells us is that the Patriots are going to stick to their values and there and look you could say well that wage opening maybe you could say that we can't discount that but look, I think the Patriots stuck to their value board, which is basically they look at Stafford as a thirty-three-year-old quarterback with a bad back who's never been a winner and they said second round plus a plus a player now. I've been trying to figure out who the player is and I don't necessarily know. It's a quote unquote specific player. Like it could have just been like we will offer you a second round plus you would we'll talk about each player in you tell us who you prefer or give us a shortlist. Yeah. Yeah that type of thing one thing. I did want to mention about the Patriots in the Stafford deal. Nick is that uh, look about the whole the Patriots. He said the one team he said no to was New England. Yeah, that was true it initially but at the by the end of the the trade Stafford also said no to Carolina and Denver who as far as I know we're certainly in the bidding and I think they went to Stafford and said, all right. Well, what do you think of these teams there in the ballpark? And he wanted to go to the ramps now. It's more about the Rams and I will say that to me it looks like everybody of course around here and the talk show radio hosts are going to be doubts. Matt. Patricia is the Patriots have no weapons. It's this it's that it's it's just it's a whole bunch of different things as far as I could tell from people. I've talked to Nick and and but really it's about the Rams and if you really look at it, you will get all the teams that were suitors for him. You know, when it came to look Stafford has a one he's running out of time, who knows he has not been he started to decline in terms of his durability lately. Iraq is probably playing for the Lions, but he has a very small window and he went with if you look at all the teams outside of maybe the Colts you could make an argument for but then again that's a whole Indianapolis thing Midwest. I think they wanted to get out in the midwest. But if you look at it, the Rams are the closest they just they are and so the Patriots are right now, you know as far as well. Are there's a lot of work to do in terms of you know, whether it's Denver or Carolina like the Patriots are in they're they're they're lumped into the field right now, right? That's just where they are. That's just reality and I think it had more to do with that from from people that I've talked to you than any of the talk radio topics that you've heard about. Yeah, and let's not discount the person relationship that is their lack between Stafford and McVeigh. There is a real relationship and he trusts McVeigh. And so I mean, I'm not surprised that he'd rather go to the Rams and the Patriots the Rams are arguably a Matthew Stafford away from being a Super Bowl team. I mean, that's the argument to make and I've heard, you know, there's a lot of other stuff that goes into it and I think the Matt Patricia the thing is obviously a piece of it, but I said last weekend, I don't know how much that would really affect the situation because how much is Patricia going to be in the air off? Stafford like you know, how involved is he going to be? It's going to be Josh McDaniels in the relationship with him. So I think it's a a number of factors as you mentioned. I don't think the Patriots are going to be struggling to find guys to to go to new window. So either either I think that's overplayed. I mean, let's not lose our minds over one dude who wanted to go to the ramps. He had the opportunity to direct the traffic the way he wanted to and that's what he did in Indianapolis. By the way, according to Bert Breer there another team that did not offer a first-round pick. They never offered 21 never took on the table. So it sounds like Chris Ballard had a very similar evaluation of Stafford as build that we did in Ballard as soon as one of the best in the business. Let's jump to the Boston Sports Journal. I remember question of the day check them out over at PSJA top-notch analysis all the Boston Pro Sports access to a ton of video analysis to have a dart does on the coaches film and you get direct access to him. The weekly chats as well $0.11 a day for their annual plan arnsworth 10:26 Greg if you are DeShaun Watson, do you really wave your no-trade Clause to go to the Jets? To get away from Jack easterby and the Texans. Oh, yeah that just tells you the dumpster fire. The Texans are right now is that you're like, you know, what about the New York Jets? Yeah. They got it together. I'm going there. Yeah, Woody Johnson came back. I feel good about God. I forgot about that Woodrow's back. What is that song? It's is all their problems are solved. Now that would ease back with a dumpster fire. That guy is but yeah look Nick we've talked about it. It's it's it's it's gotten that bad. I think I think I may I know there's a report. I think I just sucked Kalyn Kahler who I used to work with that S. I forgot where she is now, but she said that she's talked to two people have called the Texans about Sean Watson and they just said we're not trading it. Yeah, that's not a surprise. I mean, it's not even well. No, it is February now. It's early February. The league gear doesn't start for six more weeks. Nick's are just had a press conference where he said, you know, we're not trading DeShaun Watson that's their stance right now and it'll probably stay there until the very end whether its newly year and I think this actually wage goes more towards the draft. I think that's the deadline for Deshaun and I think that it's just going to ramp up and I think at some point in time I think watts is Doug in I think at some point in time stereo realizes. All right. This is a lost cause we're now a rebuild JJ Watts going to go Watson's going to go let's just let's do what the lions are doing. Let's do the same sort of thing. Let's just reboot in let's let's use whatever picks we get to get the next guy and all that stuff. I just yes, but I would wave my no-trade Clause to go to the Jets because it's New York Sala at least, you know is a good rock. I will see what else and there there is some Talent on that team any more offensive talent, but I don't think they're going to be that far away Defence off. Lee and you know he get the Sean Watson you add a couple of pieces, you know, and I think they can be pretty competitive pretty quickly my concern about Watson and that trade-off is what John McClane down in Houston who's as tapped in as anybody with that organization General completed out within the last day or two that the Texans they're starting point is two first-round picks two second-round picks and two defensive starters, the two defensive starters concerned the heck out of me because now you're not only messing with future you're messing with the present and inevitably if you're the Jets, you've got to ask the question. Yes to Sean Watson I think is an elite quarterback. I think he's one of the best five or six quarterbacks in the league and I think the second half of this off season. He was arguably the best quarterback in the league aside from Aaron Rodgers. Would that established how much better are you even if he is Elite at that position if you're shedding to first two seconds, and then you're taking somebody like I don't know Quinton Williams and somebody else off of your defense. You know, we've seen a lot of really good quarterbacks great quarterbacks be surrounded by mediocre talent and never get to where they should have gotten too. So, I guess that's a question that any team that's interested in bringing Watson in has to answer is it is it too much? Is it too much? No matter how good this guy is it too much taxes are always going to start high and I look at some point in time if the Sean sticks to his guns, he's going to put a decision to them. Like do you want to Are you really going to suspend the Sean Watson? Like if he doesn't show up or you going to start finding him and you're going to force him to sit out? Like that's your first act as general manager of the Houston Texans. Like how how is the rest of your 10,000 or you're going to go at least like just get it over with if it if it looks like it's over just get it over with trade him get as many first-round picks as you can don't worry about defensive starters and things like that. Just do that worry about getting the next quarterback and just rebuild because if it's going to be you think it's miserable there now wait until the Sean Watson is just sitting at home while the Texans are losing games and they're showing Nick deserio on on television during all this and fans are back in the stance and they're booing and its fiery being fire caesarea. Like it's just it's a complete Nightmare and Nick and Nick is say whatever he's going to say, but in actuality it's going to be a nightmare if he goes down that road. Yeah, they gotta move on and we're moving on he's dead. I'm Nick cattles to see Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick cattles subscribe rate and review and don't forget that online for the big game.