Vince Russo & AEW/NXT Recaps
If you don't know Sirius. Xm THAN LISTEN UP Commercial Free Music Plus sports comedy talk and news. They have it all and right now you can get your first three months of Sirius. Xm outside the car for just one dollars go to SIRIUSXM DOT com slash busted to see offer details and to subscribe offer available to new series Xm streaming subscribers siriusxm. No car required. This is the busted open podcast. You can listen to the full show Monday through Saturday from nine. Am to noon eastern on Sirius. Xm Channel One fifty six Welcome to the busted open. Podcast this is Dave McGregor on today's episode. Wwe Hall of Famer the Greatest Tag team wrestler of all time. Bully Ray and I talked to Vince. Russo that's right that Vince Russo. Coming off the heels of dark side of the ring raw for all the man behind probably the worst idea in the history of pro wrestling Vince. Russo joins US IN. A very candid conversation. You don't WanNa miss also we get into? Aws St especially that match between Gargano and Champa wife's match between Gargano and Champa ever or will it be we talk about all that right now on the busted open podcasts. I was not interested in watching wrestling at all last night last night. Yesterday was just a very long day for me. I did a lot of stuff. You don't realize how much stuff you can get done at home whether it's business on the phone or just around the house and I got. I'm building another moat so I had a lot of stuff going around. You know show you know. Velvet didn't do that great of a job digging the I mode. She didn't go deep enough. She didn't go wide enough. And you know what happens when you don't go deep enough? There's always a problem if you don't go deep enough so I had to go out there and you know re dig the moat because Shingo deep enough deep bully does go deep and I had to yesterday so there. I am going deep diggers. You out tired me out so last night. Eight o'clock rolls wrong along. I seriously dave. I sat back in the big bully chair and I was like. I don't WanNA watch wrestling tonight. I really don't I just wasn't in the mood for it like anything else. It can become overkill at times. You know and then. I turned on both shows and I turned on a w first and I got you know I saw Kenny and Nakazawa and the best friends and I was like Oh. The vibe here is really cool. Because they have everybody at ringside again and Jericho's on commentary and Jerry go and Shivani did what a great job of just entertaining at the announced booth last night so as much as it pains me to constantly put. Jericho over you know Chris. He's ultra entertaining. And I know I'm going off on a tangent here but Chris Forty nine freaking years old right Dave. Yup and he is more we can say he's doing the absolute best work of his career. Yes I think the these last three years of his career I think has been the best of his career. He's entertaining he has good matches. He has good ideas. He's a grumpy old man. Talking to drones. I mean right now. Whatever he does is working it really is and this goes back to the point. I've made a ton of time on the shows and that's age does not matter. Who else makes that point a lot dreamer? He's always talking about age doesn't matter in a dozen. Okay it's about your ability to be a smart worker to be an entertaining worker to be able to get the job done across the spectrum of everything that you need to do and Jericho does that last night. Image Vanni. They were entertaining. Is Ball's out there? And they kept. They kept the show flow. And so I see Nakazawa and I see Kenny. Let's see those are all right cool. You know 'cause I got some good cavs on them but then I flipped over the next see ladies ladder match and despite the fact that I did not want to watch wrestling last night. Dave I gotTa tell you both shows at the same time had me invested. Believe on annexed. He had me more invested. Because I saw was there were five five of them out there ladder match and I know in the back of my head. Those annex t women. They are always out there to impress. And and give us more than the men are giving us at times and those women busted there s. I watched the ladder match. I liked it. I was entertained by. I flipped back to annex T for a second so I found myself going back and forth last night but I found myself staying on the ladder match and I enjoyed it. I liked the finish with Going over with then. Something happened at the end of that match. The kind of bothered me a little bit. And then I'll come back to that after I answer your question. So what's your question now? You WanNa know how I felt about chopping Gargano right. Yeah I mean because that obviously I think was the big story going in. It's this has been a an epoch feud that has gone on for a very long time at times we said is been the best feud going in pro wrestling and I think that was the case for most of the time that they've had a few together and what we saw last night was the final battle triple h made the proclamation a couple weeks ago that after ten last night. That's it no more no more physicality that it's over between Gargano and champion. He put an end to it. They went to an undisclosed location in a warehouse where there was just a referee and a ring and somebody was coming out a winner and that was gonna be it so. I think that was the big story going in to last night and with everything that you saw that went on for a while. I mean people were bitching Moan about edge and be along. That was roughly about forty five forty six minutes last night between those two. What did you think overall of what we saw the end St last night? Well I'm going to hold off on my opinion. Throw back at you real quick. I want to know what you thought. I want you to tell everybody what you texted me. Last night also. I felt watching that. I've seen it before. There was just for for some now. Wait wait okay. Cho- I can already hear everybody going. Oh Dave you're you're bashing annex T U A E W boomer. Why do you feel like you saw it before? Because in a Lotta ways I just did. You know every element of what we saw in that match. We just saw this past weekend. That wrestlemainia thirty six. You know the cinematography of it. It was very similar to undertaker in AJ styles but obviously most of it was very very similar to the last man standing match between edge and even to the point where the on top of the truck they were they were. That was a big element of last night's match and that was a huge elleman in edge or and so even that was very very just the pacing of it was very similar to edge and so in a lot of ways I felt like that was almost a replay of what I saw at Wrestlemainia. Thirty six now did the fact that you felt you saw before. Take away from how you felt about the match and whether or not you were entertained by it I was still at their tain by but I gotTA BE HONEST. It did take a little bit away because in the back of my mind. I would. I was thinking. How much better would this have been? If I just didn't see something similar just a few days ago and was just a few days ago and we got Gargano versus chopper in the performance center. Already a couple of weeks ago right. Yeah because and a lot of people on social media said what we're doing was very similar to what Gargano and Champa did at the performance because a it was at the performance center and they had that Bra that was going all through the performance center. Like what we saw at Wrestlemainia thirty six. So was it's entertaining. Yes did I ultimately like it? Yeah I liked it but I could not get past the fact that it really did feel like I had seen this before and you just mentioned it when they were on top of the truck. Bully mean come on. That's what we just saw between edge in Oregon in their last man standing match deep you think Gargano and CIAMPA. Do you think there's any way in hell that that match was taped before Edging Norton? It doesn't seem likely right. I would have I would have to say no I mean I I probably if I was to think about it. I with just knowing what everything that's going on and how things are set up. I would think that they probably did tape it before but watching the match I was like there's no way they tape this. You know after because look at it. Look at all the same elements that we saw between edgy. Nor listen it's hard to really judge a bully because of everything that's going on there in a very very tough spot but I have to admit I thought it was very similar to what we saw at Wrestlemainia. Thirty six show. This is the way I look at it. If edge and Orton tape desk stuff first and then Gargano and chomp decided. Let's go on top of the semi. I can't believe that nobody said wait. Let's not do that because they already went on top of the semi and if Gargano in chopper taped their stuff. I I can't believe and then I really can't believe that edge and Orton thought that himself. Let's go on top at the semi but as veterans. They might have said that himself even though Gargano and CIAMPA did it. We're going to go on top of the semi and we're GonNa make it mean more than they did and when you look at it like that edge and Orton made that semi. I mean more than Chop Gargano because chomping Gargano just fought on top of it and then they came off as a matter of fact they were on top of it that they went to a commercial break and then all of a sudden they were off of it. Yeah which that really bothered me to When I wish we're all they know they were brawl in. And then they went to commercial break and it was like they are off the truck and they were going back into the performance center and listen. That's no fault of them. There were several commercial breaks during that match or add to be. It was a forty five minute matt. So you're GONNA get commercial breaks but that that was a hindrance as well and it kind of took away from it but they did have the standoff on top of the truck they did make that look meaningful because they had that great aerial shot of it where there had that like standoff. And you're like all right. It's on how much better would that have been if you didn't see what took place this past weekend. That would have been a bad as camera shot and you would have been like. Oh Shit it's on but you just seen it with edge and ORTON. Despite the fact that I know I just seen it with edge and Orton and not only did I just see it. It was a blatant copy of I liked the way CHOMP and Gargano was shot better. Yep It was shot the camera angles. The drone shot the wide shots from really far away. Kind of like looking at Tommy's ass. It's a wide shot. You know the Gargano in trump on top of that semi the use of the cameras and the unique angles gave it a better. Feel with John. Orton I felt like the semi was just parked in the back of the arena. And Yeah they climbed up it and they did the best that they they did a great job with it but I definitely liked the way it was shot last night. Better and you talked about the commercial banks. I wish they would have. This is one of the matches that they would have said. We're showing this uninterrupted. And I'm sure they could do it because I've seen matches on raw smackdown go an hour without a commercial right. You can work it out with the with the network. That is a match. We needed to see on interrupted. Because much like you. Dave especially when they were on top of the semi and then they go to commercial break. So how do you go to commercial right then and there? It's like people bitch and Moan about you wrestling going to commercial in the middle of a match. How do you go to a commercial in? Two men are standing on top of a semi beating the crap out of one another. That's probably the worst time to take a commercial break and then you come back from commercial break and both guys are off of it. And they're walking into the walking back into the the undisclosed location and immediately. You're saying yourself. Well how the hell did they get off of there? Yeah so these are little problems I had with it and much like you. I felt like I was seeing a repeat of something. I felt like I was seeing the repeat of edge and Orton from the violence and physicality and AJ and taker from the way was being shot. And then I got to the end and I said to myself you know what? I'm being entirely too critical. My micro critique is honest but I gotta give these guys a benefit doubt. Let me forget about. Aj and taker. And let me forget about edge and Orton for just one second. Excuse me let me pretend. I didn't see those matches. Let me give these guys the opportunity that they deserve to win me over and I was like I loved it. I really did. Because the physicality was great to an the physicality between Gargano and CIAMPA was as good as if not better the physicality between Randy and edge randy and edge were laying into each other. You know there were a lot. I found my self taken a lot of notes on this match last night because I really wanted to talk to you about it today. They did something at Wrestlemainia with camera angles. And I. I won't make this such a broad question now down to see if you caught it. They did something in the ladder. Match Mania did something last night. One St brought back into the arena. There was something done with the way it was shot. That kind of bothered me is any ring a bell now. What so there was a shot at in the ladder match mania where somebody was on top of the ladder. It might have been Morrison. It was it was one of the three guys and the latter gets pushed over. And you see I think one of the guys crashes and Burns the floor and you see him fall to the floor correct. You never saw him fall to the floor so I said to myself all right. There's nobody there. They wanted to create the illusion of a monster bump. They didn't want to put anybody in jeopardy so they quit cut away and I'm sure whoever fell to the floor. Maybe they fell on a crash pad or something. And if you listen you hear a thump you hear more like a crash pad at wrestlemainia. I let it go. I never said a word about it because I was like okay. I get it. They did what they had to do to give the illusion of a monster bump without actually having to SPLAT on the floor. Because there's nobody here and we can get away with it but then I saw it again last night and I don't want them to get into this habit because I don't like this you. You can't be so cinematic that you're taking away the big bump and not showing not showing it to people. Because now I feel like I'm watching Hollywood. Now I know that Bruce Willis really. Isn't you know falling off the edge of a building or rocky? Balboa really isn't getting punched in the face or any of my heroes really aren't taking this brutal physicality so when they came back to the Reno when Gorgon CIAMPA. We're on the second turnbuckle and they did like that reverse package piledriver esque. Whatever the hell that move is called the Doctor Bomb Gimmick Schnee. Bits and he jumped off to the floor. You never got the bump. You never got the payoff so I know that they cut away. You saw a small bump happen. But it wasn't the bump from the top of the top of the rope to the floor because doing that move from the top rope to the floor would just be idiotic because to be too much room for injury so those quick cuts away. I hope they don't get into that habit because now I feel like I'm watching too much of a movie. This is Luke. Thomas from Siriusxm fire nation combat sports in the entire sporting landscape have been impacted as we all face a time of uncertainty in the world. We have concerns about our family. Friends and neighbors have taken time out to focus on the important things in our lives and be safe. One thing that we can be sure of is that will push through this difficult time together. Whatever happens in the world of combat sports and beyond will be here for you on Sirius. Xm fire nation. In the meantime you could join us for live. Sports talk on mad dog. Sports Radio Channel Eighty two and Sirius. Xm NFL radio channel. Eighty eight and boy. I guess we could say to the show. Because he's been on with us a couple times especially the hit. Show that we had with the honeymooners against the Andy Griffith show a few months back. We're GONNA have to get the odd couple involved somehow. Someway down the road. Oh so you can hear this guy. Rousseau's brand dot com. That's the podcast brand at Rousseau's brand dot com and he is the one and only Vince. Russo Vince. How are you today days? You know what is what is so incredible about what you just said and I swear this is an absolute shoot last night trying to watch something on TV like we all these days The first thing I watched was I watched some honeymooner loss episodes and Bro. Right after that I watch the original odd couple with Jack. Lemmon and Walter Matt doubts literally hours ago you know what great minds think alike commits. Yeah what yeah the dialogue. Neil Simon the dialogue in. That movie is incredible. I'll even take it a step further because obviously the world is going through such a tough time right now every morning before I go on the air with bully I watch an episode of the odd couple so all my breakfast getting ready for the show. I watch an episode of the original couple and gets me into good. I have every episode on DVD. And I frequent them At least monthly. That's awesome all right. So let's get into it because I'm sure a lot of a lot of people probably hit you up. Social media was a buzz on Tuesday night. Dark side at a rang Bra. Offer all I mean first of all what did you. What did you think of the show Tuesday night because obviously you were featured a lot because the story revolves around you I? I don't know you know day I'd get a like I I. I don't know how I feel about it. I mean after the show and then after doing the astor show I just I just feel. There are so many just so many myths representations of that entire incident. I I think there is such a level of misunderstanding to kind of you know the writing process and you know. The involvement of the writers can pair to calendar relations and television productions. I I walked away from that. And it's like you know what Bro. If everybody wants to put the heat on bits Russo because then Rousseau is responsible for everything that they did it like in the wrestling business. That's all that's all fine and well You know it's just kind of You know approach disappointing to me when you know just you know really truth and honesty and like what really happened. Just really doesn't come out a lot of the Times Venice You know I'm not a big fan of the word polarizing I but when it comes to venture show I guess. The word polarizing is an appropriate term as Dave said when you came on our friend of the show. I've known you for a long time. I'm one of the that defend you when you deserve to be defended and I'm one of the people that will be the first one to be in your face and go against you and it's time to go against you so I kinda take everything how it's given to me at any particular moment in time with it's so easy to jump on the bandwagon of negativity when it comes to yourself. I want to know what you think. Last night's dark side of the ring did for Vince Russo's perception within the wrestling world man. But that's that's that's a great question you know you. You talked about polarizing and this this is what I fine and listen man you and I come from the same neck of the woods and you know Bro when I was in the business and when I worked with you you know Bro. Listen I think you'd be the first one to say bro. Loved you and a lot of people didn't like you and I always loved you and I knew the didn't like port Bro. Came from throat both This guy is as honest as you can get this guy throw. There's no agenda. There's no politics there's no shit behind your back. This guy's going to tell you and I think that goes for a lot of US East. Coast guys Bro. I I really believe it does and listen man in wrestling Bro. You're working with a Lotta conmen. You'll working with a lot of politicians you'll working with a lot of corny guys and Bro. They don't like the truth and I think there are a lot of people in in wrestling. That can't deal with the truth. And I I don't know how I came across Baba but I do know this and I hope this is what people took away Bro. I told the truth and and I always tell the truth. My frustration always comes when people don't want to believe the truth when when their mind is made up and whether it's an agenda weather is they wanna get their story across whatever it is. My frustration is what I sit there. I give you facts. I tell you the truth. This is what happened and you're not listening because you've already got your mind made up so it's anything. Bro. I don't know how I came across. I just hope I came across his truthful. Well let me ask you this. You sat back and you must have watched. The documentary be introspective. How do you think you came across if somebody went into this show thinking? I'm not a venture so fan. Do you think they came out going? Well Hey Vince. Russo was just doing their job or or did you come out of VISCO and while I can't believe venture so put these guys in this kind of a precarious situation. You know it's man you're you're F. Get some great questions that I'm not. I'm not avoiding the questions. I'm really trying to think about them as you ask them to me. I'll be honest with you. Because of the history of the last twenty years I feel like I don't have a chance you know I I feel like you know Bro. It's me against the wrestling business. And you know I can sit there and I can tell my truth and I take responsibility for what I did I I can. I can say where I thought I made mistakes. But you know you you you have personalities like Jim Cornet And and you have people that are just going to say what ever they have to say to paint a picture of you and Bro. I can't sit here and argue with these people because I would be doing it for the rest of my life so you know unfortunately I come out of those things like Bro. It's it's you against the world and there there's a lot more on that side then you sitting alone trying to do your own podcast and Monday. Your own business bro. That's that's how I feel and I would think that preconceived notions are almost impossible to change like if somebody has a perception of you whether they lived through the time that you were a part of it or just hearing it through social media or through. Podcasts like it really does feel like preconceived notions are impossible chains. I don't think there's really anything you could do. That are going to change people's minds. You feel that way. All you know that that's exactly and you know I'm sitting here and I'm I'm doing this episode and like you know I I'm just running through my head. What what. Why would anybody thing? After twenty one years I would sit here and law by about this incident in the midst. Of what the world is going through in the midst of the the more important things in the world in the midst of. I don't want a job in the wrestling business. I am going with it the I I just. I try to think of like okay. What what couldn't my motivation would be to possibly not tell the truth. And and and that's the part of me that you know Bro. Is I had time Dave. I I feel helpless and you know I go into these things and I'm like you know what no no matter what I say. Their minds are already made up. So you know I. I'm a wire all. The bad ideas came from Vince. Russo all the good ideas came from. Vince McMahon pro. I heard it for twenty years. He is he is a perfect case in point. Dave I'M NOT GONNA call Jim Cornet Aligarh. But his story about ten fronting me after. Dr Death got knocked out. Bro. I don't remember one second of that conversation. I don't remember for net approaching me. I don't remember for net saying the things he claimed to say so like. I'm the kind of person that I'll say. Okay you know what I? I'm not quick to call anybody Aligarh. So maybe I forgot. Maybe that actually did happen. And I forgot because the bottom line is if I sit here and say you know what Jim with all due respect. I don't remember that at all. What am I doing Dave? I'm turning into World War three. So you know for net tells this story I i. I didn't say anything about that on the show. Because I'm not gonNA waste the next three weeks arguing with Jim coordinates about whether or not he said that to me. After Dr Death lost that match I do not remember one single word of that conversation. Ever taking place you know. It's interesting because you get what you're saying is one side of the spectrum and what he's saying is the completely other side of the spectrum and when it comes to venture so in Gym Cornet. It seems like that's where we are. You go very far left. He goes very far right. And you don't know exactly where the truth lies but not show with you but let me let me let me. Just say what people and. I'm sure that that's that's four. That is absolutely false because anybody that had literally an open mind they're gonNA see right through this. Who should? Who SHOULD JIM CORNET? Be Cutting the Promo on about this. Being the worst idea in the history of wrestling and holding me responsible for guys getting hurt and what happened to Dr Deaths. The reality of the situation is BUBBA. I am a writer. My job when I was in. That spot was to go to Vince. Mcmahon's house Bro Bubba. Vince never had any idea. That's what he pays me for so I would have to sit there and rapid fire idea after idea after right here. That's where I learned to get like big thick skin with my ideas because I would go through a card catalogue every writing sessions and Vince Vince. You know I I would really try to push what I really wanted but I would. Rapid fire ideas role for all was one of the ideas on the list. It wasn't important to the show is was like a side show. It had nothing to do with McMahon Austin Rock Austin and nothing to do with any of that so weather. This McMahon whites the idea or not was going to have zero bearing on me. It was an idea that I pitched to Vince. Bro. At the end of the day. Vince McMahon shows to do it. It's Vince McMahon's show. My job is to give them ideas. I'm being my job. Vince took the role for all and decided to do on this. Show why he's cornets cutting a promo on me and not. Vince McMahon. Well it's still. Well Vince well. Let me give you my opinion. It suits all number one. He doesn't have the balls to cut a promo on Vince. Mcmahon's and number two. He wants to further his agenda. With Vince Russo. Anybody looking at this rationally can clearly see that okay Vince. I'm going to try to give you an answer because this is what I was able to decipher in watching the dark side of the ring. D- Jim coronet being mad at. You wasn't because it seemed like you came up with a bad creative idea like a and I'm just joking with you when I say this like something on a pole match you know. It's just not a bad creative idea that falls into the realm of pro wrestling and sports entertainment. It seems like this idea was born out of spite and the spite for jbl which was very real lead to some very real repercussions for a lot of the wrestlers. So when I sit back and I hear you say well. It's my job to pitch a million jobs. To Vince. Mcmahon pitcher million and one ideas. I totally agree with you. And your booking is very ratings focused. Let's put as much content as much of a car crash in one moment as we can. Because we're always worried you know trying to get a rating especially back then but this idea. It seems like it was born out of the wrong emotion in trying to get back at Bradshaw this Domino D- into a lot of really bad things happening for men personally and nobody really got over. So if I answering for Jim root for for Jim Cornet which I am not answering for Jim. Cornet I could. I could see how that's where the perception came from. Okay well there are a couple of things by Bugah is so the wrong word when JBL said that in my presence. Bro. I laugh immediately. I'm thinking of all the guys in the locker room and I'm like no no you couldn't broke you. Could you know you're saying he told me you could? You could take everybody in that locker room. My first instinct was. I was like no bro. You couldn't do this some tough times. In that locker there was zero. Spite involve so then. Bro I brought that concept to vents and I put it that way you know what then. Jpl folk music conversation. This ship will real that he would be able to beat everybody up in the locker room. So that's what if that was presented. Bubba. That's it now to order things. I want to address with you. I DON'T WANNA lose my train of thought Bubba the injuries okay. I am telling you I don't know conversations that took place that I was not pretty to. I can tell you the creative team of myself and Ed Ferrara nobody. Nobody prior to this. Not One thing. Go person brought up the risk of injury. Not One bro. Now there could have been conversations between rocks. And Vincent Vincent Pritchard. I don't know I am just talking about my behalf. Not One person said. Hey Vince have you ever thought that people could get hurt into because bobby if you WanNa know the truth? I didn't. I didn't Bro. I wasn't thinking in in in a three round contests that you know proactively. You know top notch. Blue Chip athletes would be getting hurt at at the rate that they did. I was not thinking that broke. I'm admitting to that but I'm also telling you. Nobody said that to us now. One person and support again that I think is the big difference between being a writer which I am and being a wrestler which. I'm not throwing you say nobody got over. I'm writing television okay. That's my job on the TV writers in my opinion. Bro The TV got over. If what compelling television it was doing television you saw the business. You're C- didn't answer. That non wrestling fans were interested in real fights and the all for Bro. At the beginning it was a forty church because people thought it was a work and died started. Deady knocked down people. Were like wait a minute bro? This is a shoot more and more people were getting into it and the ratings were increasing week by week firing so someone. Jim Ross who? I respect more than anybody that nobody got over because he's looking at wrestling and the wrestling aspects jam. She got over. W W we got over the brand dot over. That's who've got over throwing when you're writing. A hundred. Four show was a year and twelve pay per views. And men. You you present this concept and maybe being non wrestling fans or tuning in because man. This is a real. This is like boxing. That's what gets over so you know again. Baba I respect everything there you just said but it kind of depends on where your city at and how you're looking at this but vince you send dance. It's time out time out. Get out you said that you you said that spite was the wrong word but you on yourself on the documentary and I don't know the exact word you used but you said that you basically wanted to stick it to. Jbl You were looking to get back at JPL. You were looking to put in a situation where he would get his. Come up because he was such a bully. So there's no way that the perception wasn't that you were not trying to get back at JBL and as far as the rating and as far as the rating glad. I just wanted to. I WanNa say this is not a brand hold on you. Just let you know what a five minute diatribe shut the fuck up you talked about the rating and you say you know how the ratings were better yes maybe the rating was better for that night and the show got over for that night but it could have been attributed to Austin or some of the other stars did we. Did we sacrifice so many guys for one night worth of a rating? And because none of these guys did get over. I agree with you that maybe for one night you spike a rating for that night but in the long term none of these guys that were in the bropher all really worked out until like jbl became a different character. Went on to other things. So I'm not sure if spite is the wrong word and if the short term rating really benefited these gentlemen in the long run. I I could talk now. Don't turn it into an trying to really have a back and forth. Yeah Okay but yeah but I as a shoot although I like to address one thing at a time because I forget as I get older so that that's all I just wanted to talk one thing when you said when you say I wanted to get back to sit back him for what he didn't do anything to me. Why am I getting back at it now? Did I want was it? Kp L. Put your money where your mouth is yes. Yeah put your money where you out this. You just said you could beat everybody up in the locker room. Put your money where your mouth is. But the to getting back at him for what? He didn't do anything to me. He made a comment and I was like okay. Bro. Put your money where your mouth is. Yes absolutely under the sense when you talk about the rating you. We're not talking about one nine. We after we so we for how many weeks I don't remember but we if the we the ratings for those segments were going off. The interest was peeking week after week after week. So we're in one night of ratings because Bro. If that wasn't Drori Vince went to pull the plug on it. It was drawer. And and that's why we played it out to the end and again so thin. Ice Foresee the injuries? I don't think anybody did BUBBA. And if some people did the coronets of the world that Jim Ross is of the world not one of them said anything before the fact because perhaps it would've made us look at it differently. Well bully mentioned the brand Vince. Russo is the host of the Brand Rousseau's brand dot com earlier. You mentioned Steve Dr Death Williams as a fan watching it. I thought this was a vehicle for Steve Dr Death Williams to win and to face stone. Cold Steve Austin was that the goal for Bropher. All that dad is the biggest and greatest misnomer out so -lutely not that that must've foot for for that to take in on the light that it's taken on you know looking at the players and the in my opinion that had to come from Jim. Ross Dave in the creative meeting read it Neva. Know who has been at the end the ball for all? We didn't need them. No we didn't know who has been at the end it. We didn't know what the match up for me. And we certainly. How do we know who's GonNa win this thing when we don't even know who in it from the creative wear? It started me Ed and Vince. That was never discussed one single time. Nobody creatively said all of the winner of this is going to a program. With Austin's the winner of is GonNa get title South Austin and if you go back and you look at the documentary. Even you know Bart says well Kevin. Kelly told me this is a good idea. You'll get a program with Kevin. Kelly was not on the creative team. Kevin Kelly had nothing to do with creative so that doubt was never ever the idea from from eight creative standpoint. Never even discussed did once you got the names together and you knew who were going to be in the tournament. Was it just like from backstage? Was it just like whoever wins wins or. Was there some kind of plan at all? Did you have a plan for a program? Was it a plan for a main event push? Was it a plan for a Wrestlemainia down. The road was there. Any plan wants broth for all was over zero zero now. We knew we knew as as a writer for like I know. Oh okay whoever wins this where we're going to have to transition back to wrestling and do something with that person like who whoever it is? We're GONNA have to do something with that person. That was the extent of who it was. What's the what's the creative was GONNA BE? None of that would disgust be caught. We had no idea what the outcome was. GonNa be. Wow Vince I know that you know the power of Television. We can tell any stories we want. We can paint any pictures we want and we can make people believe anything that we want. If the story is told correctly so I was trying to watch out of the ring last night very carefully and I was trying to listen even more intently. I came away from this episode. Feeling really bad for Bart. Gunn like I could not believe how bad I felt for the guy especially in the scene in the kitchen where he was looking down at some kind of piece of paper in the way he kind of the way he dropped. It almost looked like they were so much disappointment within himself and I he's just an acquaintance. He's a hello and goodbye guy within the business with me who I always thought it was very cordial and very nice and I'm like wow. This guy seemed like he was dealt the the most difficult hand after watching the episode. Whether whether you were involved with the situation in ninety-seven or whether it was watching the episode last night did you come away with any remorse towards Bart. Gunn or anybody else that disaffected but he. Here's the thing. This is how people pick and choose. The thing's been through says. Oh he says the truth over here but but he doesn't say the truth over here. I failed Bart Gunn then through so head writer. One Thousand and five hundred percent. I fail for gun and I'll tell you why I vince. Mcmahon didn't sell for gun. Wwe Didn't fail for Gut then three so did and I'll tell you why bother you have to understand before the ball for Barak done what the character on the show you know? It's fifty percent in rings. Fifty percent out of break boy did not have that fifty percent out of the ring. He you know He. He wasn't a promo guy that wasn't his strong suit. Helluva work a good worker but what? What stalling bar was the promo okay? So now this guy wins this brawl for all in a fast and that if I didn't see it with my own eyes I would've never believed it was so freaking impressive that over you know how this works in wrestling. I think this is the problem that they have now. When I'm writing for a coward Week to week to week to week that progress project has to go upwards upwards. You gotTA keep getting that character over to higher heights new New Orleans. You can't bring him down and that that's my job when Austin hot we gotTA keep them hot. He's gotta get hotter he can't start sliding down so now as a writer. I N face with this guy that not out. Some of the toughest men in professional sports so now win on looking at the the wrestling part the wrestling aspect. It's like there are two things I'm dealing with. How Wide Book Bar? That's GonNa keep him at that. Level opposed to watering down number. One and number two all right. Bro- If you put him now in the company of Of An Austin or the company of a rock. If you put them up there bro he he's the same guy. They can't cut a promo so promo why he's not gonNA be able to go toe to toe with these guys and they're gonNA bury him in that aspect of the game so I would start with. I don't WanNA bring this down. He he still has trouble with promos. What do we do with it pro? That's my failure that that's my failure. Ask a writer and I take five thousand percent responsibility for that. I failed him creatively after that because I didn't know where to go from their speed 'cause he was so freaking impressive you know. What hearing you Vince? Right now is. This didn't come across on dark side during Tuesday night. Like dark side of the ring I it seemed like A. You really didn't care about the circumstances that happen coming out of this tournament and number two perception in a way they laid that out. And I'm not faulting. You know the guys from dark centering. They do a tremendous job. They've been guest on this show but it seemed like you just didn't give a shit about pro wrestling to begin with like that was the perception coming out of that show. Did you feel the same way? And what are your thoughts on it like? I know that you get a lot of hate but did you feel that same thing after you watch that documentary Tuesday night or I'm sure Dave loud and clear you know through cornets diatribe tribe. Meanwhile Bro I've been watching breaking Bruno San Martinos since I'm ten years old and anybody that knows me knows that and anybody that knows me knows that I could walk through professional wrestling from nineteen seventy until today Listen Dave I I try to put it in perspective to make people understand again. People getting hurt did I did that. Ever cross my mind no If somebody would have smarten up about that would it have crossed my mind yes. I don't think anybody thought that the guys were going to get hurt the way they did. Because these all professional athletes. They do train every day for these. Three short rounds. This isn't a twelve fifteen round fight so I really don't believe anybody thought that's pro. You know Dave. I look at celebrity boxing but I remember China versus Joey. Buttafuoco BELTS BRO. Nobody came out of that celebrity boxing like her like so. That's not what I was what I was thinking about. And I'm going to tell you day. Dave under those circumstances pro. I'm not saying I'm still not saying this was a bad idea. I I'm still not saying I would not do this again. Save there's one reason and one reason only why today I would never in a million years pitch that and the reason why I would not pitch that today is not because guy got hurt because nobody saw that is an issue. I wouldn't book it today because of what we know about head trauma and can cushions and C. T. and getting punched in the faith and the head means knowing that today I would no way in hell ever book out again but at that time. I don't regret booking that I don't look at that as the worst idea in professional wrestling yet guys got hurt and I feel bad. That guy's got hurt but nobody was looking it that way before hand. Nobody well I always appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much for like you said the honesty. I think people who heard this interview will look at this a little bit differently than they did. After watching dark side of the ring. And again you can hear Vince Russo. On his podcast brand Rousseau's brand dot com again. That's the brand at Rousseau's brand dot com Vince. Thank you so much for type do I. I'll admit it on the I like you. I think I think you're I think you're a hell of a good guy. You've always been good to this show and hearing you say like. Hey I've been watching Bruno San Martinos since I was ten years old. I don't think people have that perception of you. I think people think of you as hey you came in. You started the Jerry Springer show on. I'm pro wrestling and then you're out and I think that can't be the furthest thing from the truth. Well I I appreciate you know I mean you know pro again. We're talking about stuff twenty years ago and the fact that I have to sit here and defend defend decisions or ideas from a wrestling show. Twenty years ago it just beyond my. It's utter ridiculousness and it goes on and on and on and it never stops and the reality of their. Bro. There are a lot more things going on in the world right now. Yes but Vince I you know. I just want to say this just like you said earlier in the interview that Vince McMahon had the final say and he could have said No. I don't WanNa do the ball roll and it would have died right there. You could have also said no to dark side of the ring and wouldn't have to be quote unquote defending yourself. So when they make that phone call to you and say hey. Do you WANNA be on dark side of the ring. You know what's going to be on the tail end of that so you went down that road and we're not pointing any fingers that you were having a pleasant discussion with you So you're defending yourself. Because you put yourself in a position to defend yourself. I understand that although but bro God honest truth. You have done that show. If I wasn't hey well honestly venture around on you turn around and say it was a hell of a payday. I totally get it. If you turn around and say you know what I don't have to defend myself. But they got nice chunk of change now. That's why I did it. That's what I'm telling you you said Yeah I swear to God honestly guys for as much you know. Here's the cheap plugs for as much as I need to promote Russo's brand dot com bro. I wouldn't have done that show for free even if it meant promoting my brand and I could be on TV. I would not have done that. Show for Free Bro. I did it because they paid me. This was a couple of years ago where I needed the money a little bit more than I need it. Now thank God so bro. It was a good taste. I just wanted to say one more thing. I don't WanNa drag it on but when when I talk about the injuries thing you know again. Bro. It's like you have to look at Vince. Mcmahon's this is his company. These are wrestlers his roster bro. I don't think Vince would have done it. If he thought that wrestlers on his roster were going to get hurt and be out of commission for some period of time. I don't think Vince would have done that. If Vince would have foreseen the injuries. All right Vince. Thank you so much for the time I appreciate it and good luck with the brand and we'll talk to you down the road. Thanks thanks a lot of thanks for listening catches Monday. Through Saturday I'm busted open from nine. Am To noon eastern on Sirius Xm by Nation Channel. One fifty six. The busted open podcast.